Philosophy Mafia 2: Electric Boogaloo

[iaafr]

Cassandra may I ask what you think the best reasons to townread me are

the post you had about all your townreads possibly being scum then entertaining the idea of a team that i read in my catch-up solidified my townread on you

yes I agree that sequence was extremely towny for me, though it wasn't that I thought my townreads were scum, it was that I was about to scumread all my townreads.


anyway your list owns I'm fully sheeping your worldview

[staypositivefriend]

I didn't take it as an insult to my play at all, I just don't think she's actually that much above rand at reading me lol

I don't feel this is an important discussion point tbh, and I have zero problem with sheeped reads in general

my memory could be wrong but i think the only time ive outright misread you is in just robbed a bank mafia (which Doesn't Count), but i'm not claiming to have a godread on you or anything - i just think that i "get" your playstyle more than some others do

[cassandra]

Part of our role is that we're confirmed town to each other (like masons). If me and ilario are of different alignments, then the game is bastard and the rules explicitly state that this isn't a bastard game.

@ilario - can you confirm that this is true?

i'm p sure it is considering ilario mentioned talking in a chat and they share a vote (their slot is ilario/leetic in the poll) fwiw

also @ilario what was it that leetic said that may make Nook scum?

[staypositivefriend]

illario is kinda scummy but he's told me before he tries to be scummy as town right away to not get night killed and if he's mason with leetic then he prob is annoyed leetic claimed so too soon to tell

They're closer to a hydra than a mason

Neither me nor ilario had mentioned anything about a Hydra and instead I described it as a weird Mason/Double voter combo. I find this interesting because describing it as a Hydra is exactly how the host described it in BTSC, which makes me think this is potential TMI

i think this thought is kinda towny

[iaafr]

[VOTE: notanaxehole] aubergine

[iaafr]

possibly the lowest accountability vote in the game

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: NAA] aubergine

Science

[Master Radishes]

Is that a good vote

[iaafr]

yes, it's excellent, that individual called me scum

[cassandra]

the fact that illario was not immediately suspicious of the fact that he is one of my strongest townreads is probably the scummiest thing about him so far, but i refuse to expect our meta dynamic to play out in the exact same way every game. i'm going to #BreakTheCycle

Believe me, I was. But I held back because I wanted to conserve posts and because I was suspicious of your early tr on me in the last two turbos we played, so I ignored it and figured maybe your confidence in getting me right so early in those games carried over to how you’re reading me here.


Also to make sure this isn’t a total waste of a post I’m gonna post something now that I didn’t intend to plan on posting so early for thread health reasons but I may as well make this post count.

If town can’t find a elim we all agree on today we don’t shrugyeet a low poster, we yeet NAA. If there’s a vig in this setup and you’re unsure who to shoot, you shoot NAA. To explain why, I played one game with him and in that game:

-he antagonized the entire lobby
-shut down the town leaders due to his own personal reasons that weren’t game related
-forced a poe on everyone to follow that had 90% town in it
- refuses to explain a single read in his horrible poe
- scumread people for trying to question that terrible poe
- tried to speed up days by getting town speedyeeted for no reason
- after he finished doing all that he cemented his game throwing ways by self voting in lylo and letting mafia blitz him.

I thought maybe he was just having a bad time outside of the game and maybe that translated into his play that game and that was a one off for him bad game for him But I get a sinking feeling that’s not the case. Essentially what I’m saying is idc about his alignment, it’s always +ev to get rid of him if he refuses to work with the lobby before he gets a chance to hold the thread hostage like he did last time and I STRONGLY encourage any vig to shoot him because of it.

this post solidified my townread on illario (therefore i get to feel comfortable about leetic), because i just barely got him to join this game because he didn't want to play with NAA and the whole sentiment was just extremely villagery from him

i don't regret pressuring him because i thought his early read on anne was weird and i do think we tend to have a ton of mindmelds as V/V, but anne (?) also had a point that ilario can townread people a lot quicker/more easily than me and be more open about it in early game, and in general since then his posting/his claim/pretty much his entire approaches to his reads (even him saying dizzy always rolls scum against him and has again) just make him my most confident villager read

[staypositivefriend]

honestly, trying to catch up with this thread is not productive for me right now at all. my brain is too tired

who wants to chat about reads?

[iaafr]

honestly, trying to catch up with this thread is not productive for me right now at all. my brain is too tired

who wants to chat about reads?

Mac vs NAA vs other candidates for the d1?

[Dyslexicon]

honestly, trying to catch up with this thread is not productive for me right now at all. my brain is too tired

who wants to chat about reads?

I want to chat about how gay I am

[Marmot]

illario and leertic are my top townreads probably at this point (have not read most recent pages but caught up earlier) with iaafr right below

Why's that?

because i townread illario a lot at this point and i believe the mason claim - weakened masons (pretty much?) the way they described it makes sense to me based on my role too and i think that's a town role, there's 0 reason to immediately claim masons with someone as mafia and it's not bastard. i also had leertic as towny earlier but i feel more comfortable reading illario.

your POE post doesn't seem bad to me, i'd just swap illario/leertic with Mac

i want Sloonei's take on Jay tbh.

Did they describe it in some other capacity?

My understanding is that they are, as is visible, two players who share a post count, have two separate votes, but otherwise count as one slot. Is there more to it than that?

I don't think any of that is specifically town on its own. And also, as far as we know, role powers are not AI.

[staypositivefriend]

Hypertown

Marmot - Town
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - Despite what he said, I think he's offered more reads this game than he generally does Day 1 (and a lot more fluff). My meta read is that he's more calculated as scum in the reads that he states. He seems well outside of that meta rn.
cassandra - This feels like an easy read. I've played with alexa once (though I don't remember much about her there), but I'm seeing a lot of extended back-and-forths here, and a number of reads that are being adjusted as the game progresses in a believable way. Feels town.


Hypotown

NotAnAxehole - I'm putting him as light townread mainly from deferring to everyone else's townread of him.
MacDougall - I think his play so far is easy to replicate as either alignment, but I don't see any malice in it. This is mainly a vibe read.
Lime Coke - He seems fine. This feels like a lazy read. I dunno, he's like, posting some takes and also being honest about not posting at times. I like those things. His vote for NAA was pretty lazy. I dislike that. Overall I will still put him in a townlean.
nutella - I had an earlier gutread as town of nutella. It's waned a little bit though. All of her initial scumreads have turned into townreads (JJJ, Nanook, cass, spf), and not necessarily for great reasons. It bothers me a little bit, but also this is extremely counter-producitve as scum, so she's probably just town.
anne - This is a harder read. On one hand, I found her continued efforts to describe themselves as town a little over the top, but it's probably enough so that it might just be a townie thing. Also she has pushed a few buttons in ways that look mildly townie, and she's been fairly transparent with her overall thought process.
Master Radishes - Not much content to read, and yet I mildly read him town for his confidence.


POE

Dyslexicon - His recent entrance is uninvested, which means he cares about his sleep. His takes aren't inspiring. I anticipate he'll engage more, but he's POE for now.
JaggedJimmyJay - He still exists in the POE. He seems to be trying to engage the way he does. But again, his early contributions to the game looked stiff. He seems a little slow in responding and engaging with players. He did offer to take a step back and let other players do stuff, albeit after he received some pressure.
staypositivefriend - I didn't care for spf's "Oh I gave a read on every player, yay me" post. It seemed a little performative. Many of her reads were hedges.
iaafr - Posting lists of people that are possible scumteams? I don't get it. Also, there's this sequence of posts from him #1, #2 where he scumreads me, votes for me, then calls a take that I made a good one. I dunno. His reason for scumreading me is that many of my takes matched those that others had already made, and then he backed off when I had an original take that matched one of his scumreads. It's uh, I feel a little convenient. If iaafr is scum, I think this spews ilario/leetic as probably town.
ilario / leetic - leetic's reads read to me as kinda vanilla, and much of his contribution is centered more around mech approach than player reads. I don't like his interaction with NAA. I generally feel better from reading ilario's posts, but he's also pushed NAA in a way I feel slightly icky about.

DrWilgy - Basically no content
falcon45ca - Literally no content
Sloonei - Literally no content

i really dont like the specific reasoning that marmot uses to POE me here (because why is it wolfy for my reads to be hedgy on page 8? why is it wolfy for one of my posts to be addressed to the rest of the thread? it feels like marmot is making surface-level observations and then basing his reads around them instead of digging deeper), but i don't know if that specific reasoning is actually wolf-indicative for him? i recall that marmot came off as pretty tonally uncomfortable in the wolfgame i recently saw from him, and i think his demeanor in this game is significantly more relaxed and ~open~. i feel like i have good ~vibe~ based reasons to townread marmot, but his actual hunting gives me pause

[Marmot]

Jk I read the current page and NAA's new avi is making me confuse him with Marmot

It was my old PFP, so it's confusing me too >:X

[cassandra]

illario and leertic are my top townreads probably at this point (have not read most recent pages but caught up earlier) with iaafr right below

Why's that?

because i townread illario a lot at this point and i believe the mason claim - weakened masons (pretty much?) the way they described it makes sense to me based on my role too and i think that's a town role, there's 0 reason to immediately claim masons with someone as mafia and it's not bastard. i also had leertic as towny earlier but i feel more comfortable reading illario.

your POE post doesn't seem bad to me, i'd just swap illario/leertic with Mac

i want Sloonei's take on Jay tbh.

Did they describe it in some other capacity?

My understanding is that they are, as is visible, two players who share a post count, have two separate votes, but otherwise count as one slot. Is there more to it than that?

I don't think any of that is specifically town on its own. And also, as far as we know, role powers are not AI.

they also share a chat and are confirmed town to each other
they're basically weakened masons
i know roles aren't AI, i just think that'd be a weird scum role. because if one dies and flips scum, it'd confirm the other as scum, and idk i just don't think wolf!illario plays it like that right off the bat. i also townread his posting outside of the claim

[iaafr]

the forcedpublic lover-mason snowleopardgoose is also my top town read as well, for all good reasons already stated (and for none of the bad reasons)

[Marmot]

i really dont like the specific reasoning that marmot uses to POE me here (because why is it wolfy for my reads to be hedgy on page 8? why is it wolfy for one of my posts to be addressed to the rest of the thread? it feels like marmot is making surface-level observations and then basing his reads around them instead of digging deeper), but i don't know if that specific reasoning is actually wolf-indicative for him? i recall that marmot came off as pretty tonally uncomfortable in the wolfgame i recently saw from him, and i think his demeanor in this game is significantly more relaxed and ~open~. i feel like i have good ~vibe~ based reasons to townread marmot, but his actual hunting gives me pause

Do you think town players are more likely to make hedgey reads than scum players?

I am not a good mafia player, so I'd also encourage you not to confuse me with good mafia players.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm a good mafia player!

[Marmot]

illario and leertic are my top townreads probably at this point (have not read most recent pages but caught up earlier) with iaafr right below

Why's that?

because i townread illario a lot at this point and i believe the mason claim - weakened masons (pretty much?) the way they described it makes sense to me based on my role too and i think that's a town role, there's 0 reason to immediately claim masons with someone as mafia and it's not bastard. i also had leertic as towny earlier but i feel more comfortable reading illario.

your POE post doesn't seem bad to me, i'd just swap illario/leertic with Mac

i want Sloonei's take on Jay tbh.

Did they describe it in some other capacity?

My understanding is that they are, as is visible, two players who share a post count, have two separate votes, but otherwise count as one slot. Is there more to it than that?

I don't think any of that is specifically town on its own. And also, as far as we know, role powers are not AI.

they also share a chat and are confirmed town to each other
they're basically weakened masons
i know roles aren't AI, i just think that'd be a weird scum role. because if one dies and flips scum, it'd confirm the other as scum, and idk i just don't think wolf!illario plays it like that right off the bat. i also townread his posting outside of the claim

Uh, how are they confirmed town to each other? Aren't they just confirmed the same alignment to each other?

Is this TMI?

[VOTE: cassandra] aubergine

[staypositivefriend]

honestly, trying to catch up with this thread is not productive for me right now at all. my brain is too tired

who wants to chat about reads?

Mac vs NAA vs other candidates for the d1?

i think that mac is struggling to get his head into the game (regardless of his alignment), and that if he is town, he'll probably kick into gear soon and start making himself more obvious. i've been in multiple games lately where mac has a scummy d1 for the first half of the dayphase and then suddenly kicks into overdrive mode in the latter half, and if mac is town, it wouldn't surprise me if the same thing happens here. mac feels like one of those names that people act like theyre willing to chop throughout d1, but i would be pretty surprised if the day actually ends with him dying. that said, if mac's posts don't improve by the end of the day then im probably fine with killing him

NAA had a string of posts on page 13 that felt wolfy to me because they had an awkward "flow" to them and felt disconnected from one post to another, but i honestly dont think that NAA's posts are explicitly wolfy beyond that? i've actually found the openness of some of his posts a little bit towny. NAA is probably in the lower echelons of whatever POE i have right now, but i would be lying if i said that i actually wolfread him

i think my biggest problem right now is that i dont really feel good about anyone here being a wolf, which is a problem im hoping to fix by the EOD

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine


Tell me no one else is thinking this in the back of their mind

[cassandra]

illario and leertic are my top townreads probably at this point (have not read most recent pages but caught up earlier) with iaafr right below

Why's that?

because i townread illario a lot at this point and i believe the mason claim - weakened masons (pretty much?) the way they described it makes sense to me based on my role too and i think that's a town role, there's 0 reason to immediately claim masons with someone as mafia and it's not bastard. i also had leertic as towny earlier but i feel more comfortable reading illario.

your POE post doesn't seem bad to me, i'd just swap illario/leertic with Mac

i want Sloonei's take on Jay tbh.

Did they describe it in some other capacity?

My understanding is that they are, as is visible, two players who share a post count, have two separate votes, but otherwise count as one slot. Is there more to it than that?

I don't think any of that is specifically town on its own. And also, as far as we know, role powers are not AI.

they also share a chat and are confirmed town to each other
they're basically weakened masons
i know roles aren't AI, i just think that'd be a weird scum role. because if one dies and flips scum, it'd confirm the other as scum, and idk i just don't think wolf!illario plays it like that right off the bat. i also townread his posting outside of the claim

Uh, how are they confirmed town to each other? Aren't they just confirmed the same alignment to each other?

Is this TMI?

[VOTE: cassandra] aubergine

lmao what
that's literally what a mason is and they've claimed to be confirmed town to each other. so either they're not lying and town or they made the claim as mafia, and i explained why i didn't think they'd do that as mafia in that same post

[Dyslexicon]

Uh, how are they confirmed town to each other? Aren't they just confirmed the same alignment to each other?

Is this TMI?

[VOTE: cassandra] aubergine

[Dyslexicon]

[VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine


Tell me no one else is thinking this in the back of their mind

I think we all are.
Even I was tempted to recheck my role, no joke

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine


Tell me no one else is thinking this in the back of their mind

I think we all are.
Even I was tempted to recheck my role, no joke

We just mindmelding again

[iaafr]

Uh, how are they confirmed town to each other? Aren't they just confirmed the same alignment to each other?

Is this TMI?

[VOTE: cassandra] aubergine

best post of the game so far

[Master Radishes]

It actually is and now I feel bad for voting him

[staypositivefriend]

i really dont like the specific reasoning that marmot uses to POE me here (because why is it wolfy for my reads to be hedgy on page 8? why is it wolfy for one of my posts to be addressed to the rest of the thread? it feels like marmot is making surface-level observations and then basing his reads around them instead of digging deeper), but i don't know if that specific reasoning is actually wolf-indicative for him? i recall that marmot came off as pretty tonally uncomfortable in the wolfgame i recently saw from him, and i think his demeanor in this game is significantly more relaxed and ~open~. i feel like i have good ~vibe~ based reasons to townread marmot, but his actual hunting gives me pause

Do you think town players are more likely to make hedgey reads than scum players?

I am not a good mafia player, so I'd also encourage you not to confuse me with good mafia players.

it depends - i think that there's a difference between wolf hedginess and town hedginess, but hedginess in the early game is typically not alignment indicative in general. you were right to say that some of my reads were hedgy, but it would be more weird if my reads weren't hedgy less than like ~3 hours into the game. sometimes you just need more information to figure people out, and i'm not gonna force myself to come to stances unnaturally

also, i think you're selling yourself short :P

[Marmot]

illario and leertic are my top townreads probably at this point (have not read most recent pages but caught up earlier) with iaafr right below

Why's that?

because i townread illario a lot at this point and i believe the mason claim - weakened masons (pretty much?) the way they described it makes sense to me based on my role too and i think that's a town role, there's 0 reason to immediately claim masons with someone as mafia and it's not bastard. i also had leertic as towny earlier but i feel more comfortable reading illario.

your POE post doesn't seem bad to me, i'd just swap illario/leertic with Mac

i want Sloonei's take on Jay tbh.

Did they describe it in some other capacity?

My understanding is that they are, as is visible, two players who share a post count, have two separate votes, but otherwise count as one slot. Is there more to it than that?

I don't think any of that is specifically town on its own. And also, as far as we know, role powers are not AI.

they also share a chat and are confirmed town to each other
they're basically weakened masons
i know roles aren't AI, i just think that'd be a weird scum role. because if one dies and flips scum, it'd confirm the other as scum, and idk i just don't think wolf!illario plays it like that right off the bat. i also townread his posting outside of the claim

Uh, how are they confirmed town to each other? Aren't they just confirmed the same alignment to each other?

Is this TMI?

[VOTE: cassandra] aubergine

lmao what
that's literally what a mason is and they've claimed to be confirmed town to each other. so either they're not lying and town or they made the claim as mafia, and i explained why i didn't think they'd do that as mafia in that same post

It's not really a claim they can avoid. They're listed in the same slot in the poll and they (presumably) share a post count. People are going to ask, and we could probably infer all of that without a claim anyway.

I get if you TR them for other reasons, I just don't think taking them as mod-confirmed town is a good way to go about it in this game.

[staypositivefriend]

honestly, trying to catch up with this thread is not productive for me right now at all. my brain is too tired

who wants to chat about reads?

I want to chat about how gay I am

i am also incredibly gay. it sounds like we have a lot in common!

[Marmot]

Uh, how are they confirmed town to each other? Aren't they just confirmed the same alignment to each other?

Is this TMI?

[VOTE: cassandra] aubergine

This image did enter my head the moment I hit Submit.

[iaafr]

Uh, how are they confirmed town to each other? Aren't they just confirmed the same alignment to each other?

Is this TMI?

im ready to waste all my posts on the following argument:

how are these things even different lmao

[Marmot]

Uh, how are they confirmed town to each other? Aren't they just confirmed the same alignment to each other?

Is this TMI?

im ready to waste all my posts on the following argument:

how are these things even different lmao

Looks at the wooooooords

[cassandra]

Why's that?

because i townread illario a lot at this point and i believe the mason claim - weakened masons (pretty much?) the way they described it makes sense to me based on my role too and i think that's a town role, there's 0 reason to immediately claim masons with someone as mafia and it's not bastard. i also had leertic as towny earlier but i feel more comfortable reading illario.

your POE post doesn't seem bad to me, i'd just swap illario/leertic with Mac

i want Sloonei's take on Jay tbh.

Did they describe it in some other capacity?

My understanding is that they are, as is visible, two players who share a post count, have two separate votes, but otherwise count as one slot. Is there more to it than that?

I don't think any of that is specifically town on its own. And also, as far as we know, role powers are not AI.

they also share a chat and are confirmed town to each other
they're basically weakened masons
i know roles aren't AI, i just think that'd be a weird scum role. because if one dies and flips scum, it'd confirm the other as scum, and idk i just don't think wolf!illario plays it like that right off the bat. i also townread his posting outside of the claim

Uh, how are they confirmed town to each other? Aren't they just confirmed the same alignment to each other?

Is this TMI?

[VOTE: cassandra] aubergine

lmao what
that's literally what a mason is and they've claimed to be confirmed town to each other. so either they're not lying and town or they made the claim as mafia, and i explained why i didn't think they'd do that as mafia in that same post

It's not really a claim they can avoid. They're listed in the same slot in the poll and they (presumably) share a post count. People are going to ask, and we could probably infer all of that without a claim anyway.

I get if you TR them for other reasons, I just don't think taking them as mod-confirmed town is a good way to go about it in this game.

you should actually read the things i'm typing probably
i never said they were mod-confirmed town, i said they were confirmed town to each other based on what they literally claimed in the thread. i then talked about how i townread ilario outside of that and why i didn't think they'd do this as scum, so IDK if you're willfully ignoring parts of my posts or wtf. though tbh that was so bad from calling me an easy read to voting me for something like that it borders on villagery, also i wrote a note on a doc (tbh i think i'm an easy townread for mafia at this point so i'm more suspicious of people calling me lock town (like Marmot?) who shouldn't be able to read me that confidently than people calling me scum, if anyone had pushed on me they'd be lock towned but that period has passed. actually wait i'll save this on a doc instead so the period doesn't pass) that i don't think wolves would scumread me and you were the first person to vote me not counting nutella so congrats you can be town now.

[staypositivefriend]

i think it's fair to assume that if one of leetic/ilario is a wolf, the other is probably a wolf as well, which does help push me into thinking that both of them might be town (even though my reasons to townread them are not based solely on their claim)

(this is also why i asked ilario to confirm that they are confirmed town to each other, cause i could theoretically see them deciding to lie about that for fun)

[iaafr]

Uh, how are they confirmed town to each other? Aren't they just confirmed the same alignment to each other?

Is this TMI?

im ready to waste all my posts on the following argument:

how are these things even different lmao

Looks at the wooooooords

i mean if they're mafia then they are iikely to claim to be confirmed town to each other, so from outside perspective that's what they're claiming

and they have explicitly claimed that

obviously if they're actually mafia they're not actually confirmed town to each other but that's not what the post you're quoting is supposed to convey

like there's no effective difference because if they're town then they are actually confirmed town to each other like they claim, and if they aren't then they could be lying about the role in any number of ways

[staypositivefriend]

I'm squinting at both JJJ and Mac.

can you talk about your read on JJJ a bit more? i know youve mentioned that you felt that he has been "off" in some way (and i actually think that marmot nailed the description of why it might feel that way, because it is true that JJJ is focused more on posting individual observations than he is on dialoguing directly with other players), but im not sure if him being "off" is a reason to wolfread him within itself. im having a hard time getting a grasp on JJJ in this game in general, so i wanna talk about him more

[iaafr]

god this was as stupid to get caught up on as i thought it would be

[Master Radishes]

god this was as stupid to get caught up on as i thought it would be

Just don't ever get caught up on D1 convos. That's my philosophy.

[staypositivefriend]

my vote was a meme at first but i think im fine keeping it here for now

also i think scumreading iaafr for putting together a random scum team just isn't really a good reason. i do that all the time too and ive discussed enough mafia with iaafr to know that's just kinda how he is irt to cred-grabbing. i'm sure there's other reasoning for it, but that was one reason that stuck out to me as not Amazing

dont really like this post from anne but at least part of it is an OMGUS

[Marmot]

Leetic/ilario would presumably die at the same time right? Like one of them couldn't be yeeted while the other lives, nor could one be nightkilled while the other lives?

They're a hydra that can post and vote separately. They are the same slot. They are not masons who occupy separate slots. That's how I'm viewing the leetic/ilario thing.


I just don't think it's a good idea to automatically take that as a town role. I think the selection of the wording "They are confirmed town to each other" is incorrect, because while they are probably the same alignment, they are not inherently town.

I get that it would be weird for scum to have a scum chat, and then have a separate chat for the two players that have the same slot. But that take is dangerous, because it's making the read that the mod essentially cleared the slot town on setup. That's what I mean by the mod-confirmed town statement.

[staypositivefriend]

I'm a bit torn on the rodent from the PNW. Holistically, I think his posts look fine -- his hunt seems to be organized in a way that recalls some of his other recent town efforts reasonably well. Conversely I sensed some opportunism in his treatment of me (e.g. suggesting I changed my approach somehow after pressure). I grant there's personal bias in that. It'd help to get someone else's perspective about Marmot's view of me.

fwiw i thought that marmot's initial reasoning to scumread you was among some of the towniest stuff that he's posted, because he pinpointed a specific observation about you that i hadnt found a way to put into words yet, which indicates to me that marmot was putting genuine thought into his read on you. i thought the way that he treated you from there came off as a bit binary/maybe a bit too focused on keeping you in his POE, though

[nutella]

I'd imagine the two-person slot thing is tied to a particular role flavor, which was randed separately from alignment, so yeah they can be either. But I think theyre town

[staypositivefriend]

i feel like SPF wouldn't push on nutella off the bat as scum/town because she'd be aware nutella isn't MLable. though as i say that i remember that she did the "push to pocket" approach to me before so i'm a bit more shrug about it but i still kinda gut townread that. also i liked her saying something pinged her from me but she ignored it

fwiw i have a habit of making pushes on unchoppable players when im a wolf because it usually makes people townread me (ie: me pushing on you in MCM, me pushing on amrock in the 16/8er), so i dont really think this is a solid reason to townread me

the best reason why im town is because my posts are boring. they work for me, and i find them fun to make, but they're usually written to aid my solving above all else, whereas my posts as a wolf are written with the intention to make other people react to them

[staypositivefriend]

cassandra is always going to be one of those slots that im perpetually paranoid about, but i think her posting in the last few pages is very towny

[cassandra]

though, Marmot's jump on me was like exactly one of the stupid NAI things i'd use to jump on someone as scum if i was playing a lazy scum game, the only reason i townread it aside from the note i made was the absolute lack of progression from having me as "an easy read, strongest TR" to voting me over TMI for something so obviously not TMI that scum probably wouldn't think to make up something so bizarre.

---

I'm squinting at both JJJ and Mac.

can you talk about your read on JJJ a bit more? i know youve mentioned that you felt that he has been "off" in some way (and i actually think that marmot nailed the description of why it might feel that way, because it is true that JJJ is focused more on posting individual observations than he is on dialoguing directly with other players), but im not sure if him being "off" is a reason to wolfread him within itself. im having a hard time getting a grasp on JJJ in this game in general, so i wanna talk about him more

Marmot's description was decent, yeah. i dunno. he's not playing in the way i'd expect him to as town, but my track record of reading people based on that premise is pretty low. i just don't see him really putting the same energy into developing reads/creating a consensus and such as usual. his explanation about it being about the game VS. player base is reasonable, and he's probably more in null territory for me aorn. i'd love to have our first V/V game together and i'd be sad if it was spent by me being suspicious of him the whole game so i kind of just want to see how he plays out?

Leetic/ilario would presumably die at the same time right? Like one of them couldn't be yeeted while the other lives, nor could one be nightkilled while the other lives?

They're a hydra that can post and vote separately. They are the same slot. They are not masons who occupy separate slots. That's how I'm viewing the leetic/ilario thing.


I just don't think it's a good idea to automatically take that as a town role. I think the selection of the wording "They are confirmed town to each other" is incorrect, because while they are probably the same alignment, they are not inherently town.

I get that it would be weird for scum to have a scum chat, and then have a separate chat for the two players that have the same slot. But that take is dangerous, because it's making the read that the mod essentially cleared the slot town on setup. That's what I mean by the mod-confirmed town statement.

saying they're confirmed the same alignment to each other or they're confirmed town to each other is literally the same exact thing fmpov, because obviously mafia is going to claim to be town. like it's literally just linguistics. and "they're mod confirmed town" =/= "confirmed town to each other." i like to look at it this way (confirmed town to each other rather than confirmed the same alignment to each other) because it means if i feel confident that one is town then i can feel confident the other is and it helps me with my POE, but i'm not saying they shouldn't be scrutinized - just that they shouldn't be scrutinized on an individual basis.

my town read on ilario is completely outside of the claim.

[iaafr]

marmot's take on leetic/ilario's mech not being full clearing is usually the town version here

idk how valid this read is but my rough impression is it's >rand town to argue that like a pretty consensus and unyeetable townread slot isn't clear for this one reason

(and semantically it's not even a real argument because cassandra was never claiming that the pair was mech clear the way he interpreted it but thats besides the point)

inb4 i just typed my most elaborate read and it's wrong (it's probably right idk marmots pretty towny idk)

[iaafr]

but yeah the fact that it was paired with a cassandra vote was kinda pingy idk man