Baby Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[Gavial]

fun fact btw: i am spewed not w/w with anyone but wilgy, falcon and tess. Wilgy is tracker, does anyone think it's me/tess/falcon?

Self-spew analysing yourself tho.

Lmao.

Can you refute it though?

First you'd have to provide evidence for me to refute.

But yes, given I have you maybe paired with other people not Wilgy or Falc.

Who do you have me paired with?

Tess.

1 of Wisp/Gira.

Maaaaaaaaaybe Miz.

Wisp and Gira are both hard spewed not partnered with me from D1. Miz has been consistently siding against me.

That’s false.
We all know I could do exactly what you did say 1 with Tony.

[Gavial]

Day 1*

[Gavial]

Gav is not a real person. I randed hated townie and he is simply there to help implement my role.

Your Welcome.

But you read your Rolecard wrong it says “hated goon”.

[Gavial]

Just going to put it out there:
Anyone who spends time going "No way I'd be paired with x" isn't going to get anywhere with me just because self-meta is a slippery slope.

Prove your innocence with your solving of the gamestate and alignments.

Yeah exactly like I have!

Y’all Let me be your inspiration!

[Gavial]

im going through enders iso right now, and I am skipping through all his poems

But my poems are the best part.

How dare you wisp!

Your just as worse as Alison.

[Millium]

@Gavial
im probably voting Ender at the end of the day
Nothing sufficiently makes either of them town
and I just don't believe the 4d chess play from wolf!Tess
When in doubt, vote what is most logical, and in an open setup, you vote the ccer

[Alison]

Day 1*

Yeah but they aren't you.

[tessepia]

considering the validity of Alison saying Gavial could be a wolf for doing nothing but pushing townies in the world Alison is town

[EnderWiggin]

@Gavial
im probably voting Ender at the end of the day
Nothing sufficiently makes either of them town
and I just don't believe the 4d chess play from wolf!Tess
When in doubt, vote what is most logical, and in an open setup, you vote the ccer

Consider:
What is my team if I'm wolf?

[EnderWiggin]

Consider:
If I'm wolf I can easily push for the vote on Alison without backlash yesterday because I have meta on LC that everyone knows about and I could fudge some of that eeeeeeeasily.

I also would prefer LC being alive over Alison if both were town because Alison reconsiders her read on me much more than LC does. Also if I'm wolf and know they're t/t then I know Alison will always be fighting against people who turn on her for being wrong on LC.

[EnderWiggin]

Consider:
Do you think I'm afraid of blood on my hands to be off Dizzy's wagon on D1?

Dizzy is (again) one of the people I'd be most afraid of as the game goes on. Easily on the top 3 people who could catch me as a wolf here.

[EnderWiggin]

My play doesn't properly make sense unless you view it through a lense of Alison being w/w with me and even then the Nanook N1 is still an odd one.

I know how my wolf game plays and it often is about navigating town to self-destruct.

[Alison]

Counterpoint: you got red checked and CC'd after.

[EnderWiggin]

Counterpoint: you got red checked and CC'd after.

Sorry.

I forgot that cops never are the ones to claim after.

[tessepia]

My play doesn't properly make sense unless you view it through a lense of Alison being w/w with me and even then the Nanook N1 is still an odd one.

I know how my wolf game plays and it often is about navigating town to self-destruct.

I agree I don't really get it, but I don't really think you can explain why I'd kill nanook either

[Alison]

Counterpoint: you got red checked and CC'd after.

Sorry.

I forgot that cops never are the ones to claim after.

[EnderWiggin]

Also no one has answered why I'd pick Tess to CC as wolf. If I CCed tracker I easily am in a better position with multiple people sussing Wilgy AND Gav/Falc still on my side AND Luckbox the recently deceased having been anti-wilgy if I recall right.

[tessepia]

Also no one has answered why I'd pick Tess to CC as wolf. If I CCed tracker I easily am in a better position with multiple people sussing Wilgy AND Gav/Falc still on my side AND Luckbox the recently deceased having been anti-wilgy if I recall right.

I literally was scum read by every player in the game before my claim lmfao

[Alison]

Also no one has answered why I'd pick Tess to CC as wolf. If I CCed tracker I easily am in a better position with multiple people sussing Wilgy AND Gav/Falc still on my side AND Luckbox the recently deceased having been anti-wilgy if I recall right.

Actually that's true.

[unvote][/unvote]

I still don't see why Tess would suicide bomb Wilgy though.

[Alison]

[VOTE: Unvote] aubergine

[EnderWiggin]

My play doesn't properly make sense unless you view it through a lense of Alison being w/w with me and even then the Nanook N1 is still an odd one.

I know how my wolf game plays and it often is about navigating town to self-destruct.

I agree I don't really get it, but I don't really think you can explain why I'd kill nanook either

1. You had a reason to PR read Nanook. Idk why but I can't say for sure. I know I knew he wasn't PR but that's just WIFOM at this point.

2. Nanook and me find each other fairly reliably as t/t, especially after I've figured him D1. (For anyone calling this TMI I can link multiple quotes where Nanook himself says I have a very reliable read on him. It has been wrong occasionally, Smilies being the most egregious example, but I have a high hit rate on my Nanook read.)

3. Tess. You 100% make off-the-bat kills N1. Your kill on me when I was hard-sussed D1 in Ice-cream is a great example of this. Also the Nanook Kill is good WIFOM if both you AND Alison are scum together, as neither of you feel likely to make the kill.

[Alison]

Also no one has answered why I'd pick Tess to CC as wolf. If I CCed tracker I easily am in a better position with multiple people sussing Wilgy AND Gav/Falc still on my side AND Luckbox the recently deceased having been anti-wilgy if I recall right.

I literally was scum read by every player in the game before my claim lmfao

I think he means that it's the same either way. If he CCs Wilgy and gets him killed, and kills you at night, that's the same as getting you exed and then killing Wilgy at night. And Ender/Wilgy war would probably always lead to an Ender win (see how everyone piled on Wilgy when you gave your initial difference check).

[EnderWiggin]

Also no one has answered why I'd pick Tess to CC as wolf. If I CCed tracker I easily am in a better position with multiple people sussing Wilgy AND Gav/Falc still on my side AND Luckbox the recently deceased having been anti-wilgy if I recall right.

I literally was scum read by every player in the game before my claim lmfao

You and I both know I respect you too much to believe that CCing you is ever going to be easier than CCing Wilgy lmao.

[Alison]

If LC is town then nanook was killed because the scum team thought he was a PR. Either Tess or Ender could have made a PR read on him, I don't see why either of them should be excluded from the NK.

[EnderWiggin]

Like, legit you were talking earlier IN THIS GAME how Illwei was afraid to scumread you as scum because she didn't want you to OMGUS/Bury her.

[EnderWiggin]

You know you're good at a 1v1.

[Alison]

It makes no sense for you to CC Tess over Wilgy but it makes no sense for Tess to randomly claim either so.

[EnderWiggin]

Tess' random claim makes good sense if it's diversion of heat off you to waste the final ML.

Or smoke-screen for some other reason.

This claim is stereotypic "Wolves have something that is currently on fire and this is the perfect distraction".

Also wolves don't want PRs to go unnoticed to F7 because it's dangerous.

[EnderWiggin]

3 checks from both PRs can narrow the game hard.

[EnderWiggin]

See I'm ngl my "Hidden earlier read" was whether Alison came forward with "why did he cc Tess" because I know Alison is a logical player and she should see that.

This delayed see is what I expected earlier.

I don't know if that entirely locks her scum or if she didn't see it at first.

But if she isn't scum then I need to work out what Tess' smokescreen is for.

[tessepia]

sigh

then some shit like "Ender thought it would be more fun to cc me"--it doesn't really particularly matter

I don't think his decision has no possible wolf motivation

It could be the above

It could simply be because he figured he can say "I would just cc Wilgy"

etc--it doesn't really matter to me

This is the same reason you would have believed Lag's claim in the PerC game Alison (unsure if you actually did as you were an SK), just because you can't directly find motivation for a decision you don't have all the knowledge about. In the case it probably being to look townier/look for the SK

[EnderWiggin]

@Alison

Entertain me for a moment.

Let's pretend we're in a world where me and you are both confirmed town. Tess obviously is confirmed wolf because this doesn't work otherwise.

Can you work with me to build a POE that would make sense for that world?

I'm willing to drop my scum-tunnel on you for a bit to see what happens.

[EnderWiggin]

sigh

then some shit like "Ender thought it would be more fun to cc me"--it doesn't really particularly matter

I don't think his decision has no possible wolf motivation

It could be the above

It could simply be because he figured he can say "I would just cc Wilgy"

etc--it doesn't really matter to me

This is the same reason you would have believed Lag's claim in the PerC game Alison (unsure if you actually did as you were an SK), just because you can't directly find motivation for a decision you don't have all the knowledge about. In the case it probably being to look townier/look for the SK

Actually.

You know what.

That first line is accurate.

I can absolutely see myself sitting down and deciding it would be more fun to cc Tess.

[Alison]

Tess' random claim makes good sense if it's diversion of heat off you to waste the final ML.

Or smoke-screen for some other reason.

This claim is stereotypic "Wolves have something that is currently on fire and this is the perfect distraction".

Also wolves don't want PRs to go unnoticed to F7 because it's dangerous.

Well I know it's not to divert heat off me so you can scratch that argument if you intend tp convince me.

I don't think the PRs argument makes sense, if the real parity cop wasn't in the difference check they would immediately CC and Tess would get voted out and Parity Cop dies in the night, and we still have one more misexe before FX. It's not really worth it for the mafia to do that.

[EnderWiggin]

I'd have to be in a more "I'm having fun" world than I usually am as scum but.

Not impossible.

[tessepia]

My play doesn't properly make sense unless you view it through a lense of Alison being w/w with me and even then the Nanook N1 is still an odd one.

I know how my wolf game plays and it often is about navigating town to self-destruct.

I agree I don't really get it, but I don't really think you can explain why I'd kill nanook either

1. You had a reason to PR read Nanook. Idk why but I can't say for sure. I know I knew he wasn't PR but that's just WIFOM at this point.

2. Nanook and me find each other fairly reliably as t/t, especially after I've figured him D1. (For anyone calling this TMI I can link multiple quotes where Nanook himself says I have a very reliable read on him. It has been wrong occasionally, Smilies being the most egregious example, but I have a high hit rate on my Nanook read.)

3. Tess. You 100% make off-the-bat kills N1. Your kill on me when I was hard-sussed D1 in Ice-cream is a great example of this. Also the Nanook Kill is good WIFOM if both you AND Alison are scum together, as neither of you feel likely to make the kill.

1 doesn't particularly matter but I've seen nanook play PR and it's not that hard to tell. He literally claimed cop day 1 before cause he thinks open-PR'ing or whatever would be good, idc really, but

2 is ridiculous. I don't know what you having a good read on him should matter for anything--it's his read on you that would matter. Has he seen you wolf, even?

As for 3, I don't SPK day 1 if I can avoid it specifically because I don't want to, like, get scum read for not being SPK'd. But my kills are still pretty good imo. In constant vigilance my n1 was probably THE best kill we could make, disregarding even that it was Alexa. She was town read by everyone, scum read me, and scum read my partner who I took to lylo. It was just straight up the best kill. I killed you in my mantischora game becuase

1: you were the only person with meta on me. Killing you meant I could do whatever I wanted with the game
2: you were playing with me in another game I was town in at the same time where I was much more towny, and I didn't want you to be able to cross game read

I'm not scared of nanook at all. He's an easy ML. No one listens to his reads. etc etc

[Alison]

He doesn't *need* to CC you so he can say "I wouldn't CC her as scum". Because if he was doing that, he'd be doing it in order to get towncred so he could win the CC war and exe you, then kill wilgy at night and be exposed the following day.

Problem is, if he CC'd Wilgy instead, he'd get the same result without having to mind game like that. He doesn't *need* the towncred when he can do whatever he wants.

[Alison]

I have seen no reasonable explanations for either Ender's decision to CC Tess or Tess' decision to claim her check in a world either of them are scum. I am going to think about what possible explanations could drive those decisions.

[tessepia]

Also no one has answered why I'd pick Tess to CC as wolf. If I CCed tracker I easily am in a better position with multiple people sussing Wilgy AND Gav/Falc still on my side AND Luckbox the recently deceased having been anti-wilgy if I recall right.

I literally was scum read by every player in the game before my claim lmfao

You and I both know I respect you too much to believe that CCing you is ever going to be easier than CCing Wilgy lmao.

and I mean regarding this

People jumped onto Wilgy sure--I'd have to look at who that was--but imo he was still towny day 1. Like idk much about him but I liked his day 1 a decent bit and I don't think the expectation for Wilgy is just go "oop" and flop over and die. The reads on Wilgy can easily just be seen as a temporary drop off imo. Dizzy town read him, I did day 1, Alison did, etc. But the reads on me probably were gonna stick more. I mean, I don't know--this is easily a thought someone has though

[EnderWiggin]

Tess' random claim makes good sense if it's diversion of heat off you to waste the final ML.

Or smoke-screen for some other reason.

This claim is stereotypic "Wolves have something that is currently on fire and this is the perfect distraction".

Also wolves don't want PRs to go unnoticed to F7 because it's dangerous.

Well I know it's not to divert heat off me so you can scratch that argument if you intend tp convince me.

I don't think the PRs argument makes sense, if the real parity cop wasn't in the difference check they would immediately CC and Tess would get voted out and Parity Cop dies in the night, and we still have one more misexe before FX. It's not really worth it for the mafia to do that.

If you are town then...

Tess likes to really deep wolf so it's a bit odd.

Can't be to defend Wilgy because Wilgy is uncced tracker.

Only reason she would is if she was worried about PRs getting 3 checks while being unknown.

But that's kinda weak idk.

[tessepia]

Tess' random claim makes good sense if it's diversion of heat off you to waste the final ML.

Or smoke-screen for some other reason.

This claim is stereotypic "Wolves have something that is currently on fire and this is the perfect distraction".

Also wolves don't want PRs to go unnoticed to F7 because it's dangerous.

Well I know it's not to divert heat off me so you can scratch that argument if you intend tp convince me.

I don't think the PRs argument makes sense, if the real parity cop wasn't in the difference check they would immediately CC and Tess would get voted out and Parity Cop dies in the night, and we still have one more misexe before FX. It's not really worth it for the mafia to do that.

If you are town then...

Tess likes to really deep wolf so it's a bit odd.

Can't be to defend Wilgy because Wilgy is uncced tracker.

Only reason she would is if she was worried about PRs getting 3 checks while being unknown.

But that's kinda weak idk.

LMAO yeah I know it's weak bruh

[Alison]

I suppose I should say that if either of you is VT doing the stupidest FPS ever now would be a good time to fess up.

[EnderWiggin]

Also no one has answered why I'd pick Tess to CC as wolf. If I CCed tracker I easily am in a better position with multiple people sussing Wilgy AND Gav/Falc still on my side AND Luckbox the recently deceased having been anti-wilgy if I recall right.

I literally was scum read by every player in the game before my claim lmfao

You and I both know I respect you too much to believe that CCing you is ever going to be easier than CCing Wilgy lmao.

and I mean regarding this

People jumped onto Wilgy sure--I'd have to look at who that was--but imo he was still towny day 1. Like idk much about him but I liked his day 1 a decent bit and I don't think the expectation for Wilgy is just go "oop" and flop over and die. The reads on Wilgy can easily just be seen as a temporary drop off imo. Dizzy town read him, I did day 1, Alison did, etc. But the reads on me probably were gonna stick more. I mean, I don't know--this is easily a thought someone has though

Let me put it this way:

If everyone on the game had a townish read on Wilgy.

And a scummish read on you.

I would 100% still think Wilgy is the easier CC.

Because I am a very strong thread presence and for players who can't match that I overwhelm them a lot.

You are not someone I can do that to as wolf.

[tessepia]

I have seen no reasonable explanations for either Ender's decision to CC Tess or Tess' decision to claim her check in a world either of them are scum. I am going to think about what possible explanations could drive those decisions.

I mean, even if you're caught up in something relating to the claims this day phase, my entire play this game lines up to being a cop, including claiming outright SoD

Like

The possibility of me being a wolf here is that I pulled scum reads on purpose day 2 and some day 1 just to claim cop, because you should KNOW I can do better even with like 5% than I did those days as a wolf

[tessepia]

I suppose I should say that if either of you is VT doing the stupidest FPS ever now would be a good time to fess up.

oh, I was hoping you'd give me a bit longer

I'm not rescinding it's a joke

[Alison]

Quick question: why out the red check immediately? Most cops wait until the middle of the day to generate spew, yeah?

[EnderWiggin]

I have seen no reasonable explanations for either Ender's decision to CC Tess or Tess' decision to claim her check in a world either of them are scum. I am going to think about what possible explanations could drive those decisions.

I mean, even if you're caught up in something relating to the claims this day phase, my entire play this game lines up to being a cop, including claiming outright SoD

Like

The possibility of me being a wolf here is that I pulled scum reads on purpose day 2 and some day 1 just to claim cop, because you should KNOW I can do better even with like 5% than I did those days as a wolf

It's my duty as your CC to point out "I could do better as wolf" is a WIFOM-y statement that often comes from wolves.

[tessepia]

Quick question: why out the red check immediately? Most cops wait until the middle of the day to generate spew, yeah?

cause it's not a red check, it's a difference. I don't really think I need to wait to give a difference and I wanted them to fight/people to weigh in lol

[Alison]

Quick question: why out the red check immediately? Most cops wait until the middle of the day to generate spew, yeah?

cause it's not a red check, it's a difference. I don't really think I need to wait to give a difference and I wanted them to fight/people to weigh in lol

That's fair

[tessepia]

I have seen no reasonable explanations for either Ender's decision to CC Tess or Tess' decision to claim her check in a world either of them are scum. I am going to think about what possible explanations could drive those decisions.

I mean, even if you're caught up in something relating to the claims this day phase, my entire play this game lines up to being a cop, including claiming outright SoD

Like

The possibility of me being a wolf here is that I pulled scum reads on purpose day 2 and some day 1 just to claim cop, because you should KNOW I can do better even with like 5% than I did those days as a wolf

It's my duty as your CC to point out "I could do better as wolf" is a WIFOM-y statement that often comes from wolves.

I mean it's literally true

The wolf game I played before constant vigilance I didn't really want to play but I posted like a single wall that I spent 30 minutes reading to make that got the entire lobby to town read me

I'm a smooth talker baybee