basic mafia [END]

#2301

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:02 pm Sleep isn't an option

We make it an option
@Marmot you promised true mountainous

#2302

I mean also possible that dizzy has been hammered idk

#2303

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:09 am I mean also possible that dizzy has been hammered idk

youre trying to get derp cleared i see?

#2304

Oh right we need 5

#2305

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:29 pm mountainous
15 players (3 mafia)
48/24 phases (closed nights)
mandatory yeets/nks
no hammers

town role pm

town, eliminate all mafia

#2306

#2307

ok update

#2308

#2309

Vote : dizzy I agree with Mac but also I feel like the scum team can be Nanook/Ender/NAA and it doesn’t matter but I’ll blame Alison and perhaps also the mods

#2310

There's no need to solve further if you're just going to vote me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#2311

Sure there is... if you're town. Please do in fact. If you're town.

#2312

Lu Ren wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:22 pmSorry, you'll have to settle for strong reads.

Omega and Alison are both just town because of their posts before/at the start of the argument. Omega posted about feeling differently as mafia vs town, saying that she feels a lot more pressured and nervous as mafia, and then immediately said "I might be struggling to engage this game". I think both of those posts could easily be made by mafia, but the progression is much more likely town. Her perspective is just pretty genuine, and that shows up in the way she reacts to Alison. For Alison, I think she's a very zealous player and is probably pretty aggressive even as mafia, but I don't think she'd pick the things she picked here to seize on, and the very quick and convinced conf-bias she went into that with felt organic and more intense than I think she'd be likely to do as mafia in that situation.

Axe is probably also town, not a ton to say here apart from shrugging my shoulder towards the votecount. I think the biggest thing I liked from him was how he reacted to the way people engaged with how he stepped into the argument when everyone else was standing back. Didn't feel like he was trying to get anything extra out of it either at the time or afterwards.

Falcon's entry post was so level 0 mafia that I'm tempted to just say burn it with fire, but I don't remember any of their other posts so I'm not going to commit here yet. The "what happened who can I sheep" at the particular point at which they entered made me cringe.

Luckbox just seems like mafia? The "haha I'm so pure nvm just taking the piss" probing, but especially the "axehole can be a wolf, voting him" is just the laziest and worst approach in the world and not in a towny way at all given thread momentum. He combined that take with saying "I was going to have Seanzie as a maybe, but he can be town sure" and it just feels very arbitrary and like there aren't actual thoughts behind any of what he's saying.

I don't know how to vote, apart from the poll.

I think this post is TMI. The read on Omega specifically is very vague and the strength of the read (which never wavers) seems off from the reasons. Buddying Alison is also the way to go.

Lu Ren wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:50 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:40 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:38 pm I'd like to kill in luckbox/nanook/dizzy/tsp? today?
Hi, we haven't played before afaik. What's your thoughts on me?
I don't think you've done anything super towny, and I don't think Esooa voted you for no reason; I don't think you've done anything very mafia-indicative but you're just not up to the bar I'd expect and I have a good deal of strong/decent town reads and you're not one.

This is still the weirdest thing in the whole game. Esooa had a blank vote on me after I had posted a total of two times. There was no actual content to the vote. Why on earth does Lu Ren need "I don't think Esooa voted you for no reason" as a justification to suspecting me?

Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:18 pm
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:45 am Disgruntled current state:

Probably Town:
Lu Ren
Seanzie
Belzy/BoKnows

Soft town:
NotAnAxehole
Luckbox Inc
falcon45ca

Debating on my read:
TonyStarkPrime
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Light Scum:
fingersplints
Grogu/Syn/Mac

Scum:
Dyslexicon or Alison
EnderWiggin
i almost got upset at you for putting ender in the bottom tier and then i realized you were ender

I think this is buddying (back). This post serves literally no other purpose than to buddy Ender. Lu Ren has otherwise been deliberate with their posting, so this is probably also deliberate.

Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:01 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:53 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:43 pm I would vote BoKnows today actually, I think that's a good target

@MacDougall @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME @falcon45ca @Luckbox Inc @Seanzie @Dyslexicon @Alison @Lu Ren

You are the players I would expect to vote there.
BK hasn't done anything scummy IMO, feels like a shot in the dark at this stage of the game
i kinda liked belzy's d1 but i think bo's today has been pretty terrible particularly wrt their handling of the alison slot and i feel like there's a solid chance mafia are just being like oh! but everyone said belzy made good posts d1! let's ignore bo and use that as a reason to keep v-reading our partner

This walking back on Belzy is pretty bad. I could understand it if it was a case of "Rather Bo/Belzy than Alison", but this is additional justification that doesn't actually make any sense, and that's what's scummy about it, specifically the yellow part.

Lu Ren wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:48 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:38 am
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:01 pmi kinda liked belzy's d1 but i think bo's today has been pretty terrible particularly wrt their handling of the alison slot and i feel like there's a solid chance mafia are just being like oh! but everyone said belzy made good posts d1! let's ignore bo and use that as a reason to keep v-reading our partner
I know it's after the fact, but did you have an opinion on which potential mafia where doing this?
don't remember who, but it was a subset of people that i didn't think were terribly villagery and felt like they were ignoring bo's d2 in the light of weird deterministic alison machinations

So I ask Lu Ren about this specifically, and their answer is that they don't remember who did it, but it was a #subset of people that they didn't think were terribly villagery" and something more I don't understand. (Surprise: NOBODY CARED)

Lu Ren wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:08 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:18 am @Lu Ren Is there a reason you haven't said what name I would know you by?
Yes, I don't really want to. If this game went differently and it made me want to dive in and get my hands dirty maybe, but I prefer the anonymity in terms of not feeling like I have to contribute more than I want and feel responsible to just being a random person here as of right now.

What direction must the game take for you to get your hands dirty? Straight for a town loss is apparently fine. You don't even have to work for it.

Lu Ren wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:07 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:29 am If dizzy flips town, it will just emphasize that we should have killed Alison on D1.
or, you know, we could have just not

but here we are

This is their only post today.

---

How are people town reading this slot? I absolutely don't get it.

Anyway, I think Lu Ren is scum, so I'll vote there because SYMBOLIC ACTION. Nobody else seems to agree, which is wild to me, but at least I have explained why now. And then people can make their own decisions.

#2313

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:17 am Sure there is... if you're town. Please do in fact. If you're town.

I am, I was talking about the game state. It sucks a whole lot, and not to be dramatic, but particularly for me.

#2314

^ Above post why I think Lu Ren is scum. If my opinion matters at all.

#2315

Think I mentioned that this might've been the first time me and Alison is town together. But actually, the very last game I played here was the first time we were town together. And guess what happened - we mutually scum read each other lolol. Don't know why I didn't remember this before now. And look what I found:

Alison wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:29 pmDizzy my read on you is based on the fact that you're reading me badly + the Hally kill + your D1 EOD.

^That was the reason she scum read me in that game. Oh wow. It's almost like it's the exact same reason she just tunnelled the shit out of me this game. How quaint.

I'm not saying this "proves" that I'm town. But Alison has a history of reading me as the opposite alignment that I am. She fully town read me in Lion King when I was scum (probably because I buddied her and played "on her team" which apparently is the only way Alison accepts your existence), and last game and this she scum reads me.

So that does beg the question, why the fuck do you all think it's a good idea to follow Alison.
Alison this game has been pure arrogance and it has been really bad for the game imo. This doesn't mean Alison is a bad player, because she's obviously not, but she has had bad reads and imo not affected the game state in a positive way either. She admitted to not even reading all my posts, which is probably what pisses me off the most.

Anyway, if you want to vote me, I would greatly appreciate it if you did that off of your own scum read. I don't think I've heard hardly anything about why I'm supposedly scummy here. Bias bias bias but I think I'm pretty obviously not. As a player, I piss people off and rub them the wrong way a lot more as town than as mafia. As town, I post what I want from what ever mood I'm in, and as mafia I overthink and curate my posts, which is why I'm almost always universally town read as mafia.

I've made mistakes this game as well, of course, especially being too omgus towards Alison. I forgot about our mutual scum reads from last game, as I don't think it was as pronounced and definitely didn't affect the game as much as it has this time (and it's affected me a lot, cause I hate being tunnelled). Honestly, I didn't even care that much what alignment Alison was in the end, cause I just wanted her gone (or me gone). The mutual flip plan was also much more an actual option (however terrible it probably is in any case) when it didn't just auto lose us the game like it does now with us having one day less from an extra town death. Not my intention.

Everyone was not fine with that situation on earlier phases. Now we're in LYLO and everyone is like "Ok, cool, let's do that, queen Alison". It just sucks, because though my philosophy is 100 % this is a team game and you win and lose as a team, I actually don't think I've done anything to "deserve" being in this situation, expect admittedly reacting badly to a tunnel.

So what I'm saying is, if you're town and don't want to lose this day phase, please just think again and at the very least vote me because you think I'm mafia for whatever reasons, and not because "we're just doing that", cause that is literally handing the win over to mafia willingly, which is dumb as fuck. And if you're unclear on anything I've done this game, please ask me. (I'm going out tonight, but I'll probably be semi available through phone).

#2316

That's my "defence post"

[VOTE: Lu Ren] aubergine

#2317

I kind of want to kill someone else, but that is not based on any read... Because I didn’t

#2318

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:09 am I kind of want to kill someone else, but that is not based on any read... Because I didn’t

Is your comment that you didn't read my posts?

#2319

#2320

Dizzy writes good post.

#2321

What I don't understand Dizzy is how you had decided that maybe you were wrong about Alison at one point this game, and then the next day it was like those thoughts didn't exist and you were right back to deciding that she needed to die, and I wasn't sure what happened there.

#2322

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:42 pm What I don't understand Dizzy is how you had decided that maybe you were wrong about Alison at one point this game, and then the next day it was like those thoughts didn't exist and you were right back to deciding that she needed to die, and I wasn't sure what happened there.

Actually it was the same day. I had read some recent Alison town games over night and I did see that she tunnelled town players (and more crucially, when someone disagreed, she accused them of being teamed with the person she tunnelled. That was relevant, cause I felt the way she connected me to DOO on D1 was absurd.) And yes, I should’ve left it at that, but then she started posing again and I hated it. Also, she admitted to not fully reading my posts, and I probably just didn’t want to believe she would treat me this way as town. So I guess I was able to open up to her being town when she was not around and had zero interest in working with me. I’m a pretty omgusy player, unfortunately.

If this is an “you are inconsistent” argument, it’s a bad argument. I can be “consistent” as mafia if I want to. Being of two minds is a town thing, at least it is for me. I guess you could say I wasn’t sure of Alison’s alignment, but I really hoped she was scum or else the game would suck.

Don’t know if this helped. It’s obviously after the fact, and it’s harder to justify my omgus both for me and probably in thread now that Alison is confirmed town.

#2323

Really I was hoping you were just going to roll over now. Wishful thinking apparently.

#2324

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:17 pm Really I was hoping you were just going to roll over now. Wishful thinking apparently.

Why?

#2325

I’m a pretty fickle player/susceptible to influence. So I think both Alison’s posts, how she treated me and the thread in general got me to reevaluate my reevaluation

#2326

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:18 pm
Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:17 pm Really I was hoping you were just going to roll over now. Wishful thinking apparently.
Why?

If I were a wolf in your spot I could see myself rolling over. As a villager I would still fight. But because your wolf game is getting respect, that doesn't make it easy.

#2327

Lu Ren's post count and amount of real-time interaction with people is definitely concerning, but I don't see Lu as a wolf in those those posts.

The parts that are highlighted just don't come off wolfy to me. Yes, the line about esoooa was weird, but it would be weird for a wolf to say too really-- to just be so blatant about using the NK to push an agenda-- and Lu Ren is pretty clearly a more careful player than that.

#2328

"Omega and Alison are both just town because of their posts before/at the start of the argument. Omega posted about feeling differently as mafia vs town, saying that she feels a lot more pressured and nervous as mafia, and then immediately said "I might be struggling to engage this game". I think both of those posts could easily be made by mafia, but the progression is much more likely town. Her perspective is just pretty genuine, and that shows up in the way she reacts to Alison. For Alison, I think she's a very zealous player and is probably pretty aggressive even as mafia, but I don't think she'd pick the things she picked here to seize on, and the very quick and convinced conf-bias she went into that with felt organic and more intense than I think she'd be likely to do as mafia in that situation."

"i kinda liked belzy's d1 but i think bo's today has been pretty terrible particularly wrt their handling of the alison slot and i feel like there's a solid chance mafia are just being like oh! but everyone said belzy made good posts d1! let's ignore bo and use that as a reason to keep v-reading our partner"

The first quote on DoO I could see coming from a wolf, but separating good reads from TMI isn't necessarily easy.
And the second quote on Belzy is just villagery.

Ultimately I think your case on Lu Ren is really really thin.

#2329

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:21 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:18 pm
Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:17 pm Really I was hoping you were just going to roll over now. Wishful thinking apparently.
Why?
If I were a wolf in your spot I could see myself rolling over. As a villager I would still fight. But because your wolf game is getting respect, that doesn't make it easy.

I mean, I wouldn’t be in this position if I was wolf, pretty sure lol.

I’m at a party, so not really able to dig too deep. But chopping me just loses the game for town. I hate being the one to be the last mischop. And I think it’s a pretty lazy/dumb chop (even objectively)

#2330

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:34 pm Lu Ren's post count and amount of real-time interaction with people is definitely concerning, but I don't see Lu as a wolf in those those posts.

The parts that are highlighted just don't come off wolfy to me. Yes, the line about esoooa was weird, but it would be weird for a wolf to say too really-- to just be so blatant about using the NK to push an agenda-- and Lu Ren is pretty clearly a more careful player than that.

Esooa wasn’t NKed at that point. That’s why it’s weird. Don’t know if they even uttered a read on Esooa at the time, if not, it’s more tmi.

Both the Esooa thing and the Belzy post I think is making fake unnecessary justification because you think it’s needed. I don’t know if I can express it better. Trying to make your reasons waterproof and “reasonable”, but neither actually are. Just weird justification

#2331

That’s what’s I think anyway. Their hands off today also speaks volumes imo. But I have the dubious privilege of knowing game is just going to end now

#2332

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:58 pm
Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:34 pm Lu Ren's post count and amount of real-time interaction with people is definitely concerning, but I don't see Lu as a wolf in those those posts.

The parts that are highlighted just don't come off wolfy to me. Yes, the line about esoooa was weird, but it would be weird for a wolf to say too really-- to just be so blatant about using the NK to push an agenda-- and Lu Ren is pretty clearly a more careful player than that.
Esooa wasn’t NKed at that point. That’s why it’s weird. Don’t know if they even uttered a read on Esooa at the time, if not, it’s more tmi.

Both the Esooa thing and the Belzy post I think is making fake unnecessary justification because you think it’s needed. I don’t know if I can express it better. Trying to make your reasons waterproof and “reasonable”, but neither actually are. Just weird justification

ok yeah I misunderstood that post. And yeah it's weird.

Lu?

#2333

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:00 pm That’s what’s I think anyway. Their hands off today also speaks volumes imo. But I have the dubious privilege of knowing game is just going to end now

ending the game might be for the best.

Still though I'd like to figure out who the wolves are for myself, for personal ego reasons.

#2334

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:07 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:00 pm That’s what’s I think anyway. Their hands off today also speaks volumes imo. But I have the dubious privilege of knowing game is just going to end now
ending the game might be for the best.

Still though I'd like to figure out who the wolves are for myself, for personal ego reasons.

It’s also against my wincon.

Ego solve: Lu, Mac, Axe/TPS - let’s say Axe

#2335

Also, additional reason I feel Lu is just scum here is that every time I’ve brought up what I think are legitimate points, nobody has cared. Energy flows away from that. Energy flows towards Dizzy scum (or Alison/Dizzy) and yes, I realize this is partly my fault, but that’s a pretty glaring sign imo

#2336

wait is there not maj here?

#2337

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:32 pm Also, additional reason I feel Lu is just scum here is that every time I’ve brought up what I think are legitimate points, nobody has cared. Energy flows away from that. Energy flows towards Dizzy scum (or Alison/Dizzy) and yes, I realize this is partly my fault, but that’s a pretty glaring sign imo

yes well this has happened with literally any read on anyone except for like four slots this entire game so

you're not alone in feeling like you're screaming into the void, regardless of alignment

#2338

five people voting dizzy is

uh

how do you say "not comforting" in a language that isn't english

i don't think dizzy's chances of pulling off a thunderdome vs mac or anyone today are /that/ dismal?

god

ok

i promise i'll come back and do some reading

#2339

Please do something if you’re town Lu. And I don’t want to be wrong on you too

#2340

I'd be happy killing TSP and praying

#2341

Lu Ren I would definitely not vote, probably not ever so gg there if wolf.

Could see the wolf team being something like Mac/Nook/TSP if Dizzy isn't a wolf.

Axe I'm pretty sure I want to clear.

#2342

My initial level 0 take is "wolves have been under basically zero pressure the entire game and Dizzy just feels like a perfect setup after Alison yeet which feels like a perfect setup after boknows which felt like whatever after the inanely railroaded Alison/DoO d1", and I think it feels more likely that they're just doing the omega coast, esp since Dizzy has been kinda off to the side (he does distance, but basically everyone else has gelled in terms of trajectory and what they're trying to do in thread more than him) and capitalizing on the way things have been going so far, since literally nobody has really done much of anything against a Dizzy kill since maybe d2 at best apart from trying to kill Alison first, which as discussed was dubious. I understand that it's the counterwagon, but I also think mafia has had a ludicrous amount of thread control relative to town this game, and people are underestimating that. I will look into this and confirm against Dizzy's posts and how other people handle them, but I'm probably just going to solve from this perspective in the time I have this phase because I want to feel like I tried even if it's probably to late to affect meaningful change and I think this is both far more likely than Dizzy!w and I think we kinda need to consider this perspective more than anything going into three straight lylos if we have any chance of winning.

#2343

Dizzy, why weren't you pushing back against Mac at SoD in lylo here?

#2344

ie why hasn't that been your focus today

is it just because no maj

probably

#2345

Are you asking me why not chop Mac? Cause I would take a chance on Mac simply cause he could be in most teams I could see

#2346

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:27 pm Are you asking me why not chop Mac? Cause I would take a chance on Mac simply cause he could be in most teams I could see

i'm saying given that it's lylo and he's going in strongly on you i was wondering why that doesn't ~confirm him as wolf to you to some degree

again no maj so it's not a lock but just curious what your perspective is there

#2347

Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:31 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:27 pm Are you asking me why not chop Mac? Cause I would take a chance on Mac simply cause he could be in most teams I could see
i'm saying given that it's lylo and he's going in strongly on you i was wondering why that doesn't ~confirm him as wolf to you to some degree

again no maj so it's not a lock but just curious what your perspective is there

I do think Mac is likely scum from how he’s positioning himself. That is, he didn’t seem too invested in Alison vs Dizzy before, but now he’s full on into Dizzy scum. So yeah, that’s scummy to me.

#2348

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Inb4 getting sweet talked by Lu

#2349

i'm going to do errands first because otherwise they're not gonna happen and i already completely blanked on that yesterday so no promises on how much i'll be able to deliver but it'll give good time pressure and hopefully i can at least take a look over some things

i guess i'll vote mac just in case for now because i honestly really see very few worlds in which wolves are like sure let's dumpster a teammate today ez gg no re if mac's v lol just because of how much pressure mac has gotten so far, ie probably one of the few people likely to actually go over with enough pressure today and i'm sure they've done enough distancing that they're not worried about all dying if one does wolves would rather win quickly if they can

so i think even if somehow dizzy is v mac just has higher mafia%

#2350

What about tsp Lu? Dizzy? As a thought experiment

who's mafia