PSY 2310 - Cognitive Psychology [END]

[staypositivefriend]

@outed wolf - why do u fos me

because you're a clever mfer

and im running out of people to push

[bronana]

re-read d3 nutella

when vulgard was trying to post his way out of the peek and people were turning to his side and saying maybe he's town i shut him down and told him to stuff it

look at how he treats me all game

calling me more likely w/w with vulgard than arete is bonkers

[outed wolf]

[nutella]

spfs posts today keep setting off little bells

she might be right that if I reread her iso I'll remember why she's town but idk my tummy thinks she's the missing puzzle piece if it's not lolwolves

[outed wolf]

basically
im a villa
if i think nutella is a villager
and i think bronana is a villager
and ive come around to dya/syn being villagers
and amy is a villa
and marl seems likely to be a villa

then i have

dizzy
spf
arete
c4

if im savin arete to be last before lylo then i have spf/dizzy/c4

and im gonna give dizzy a bit of cred for some stuff though d3 feels a bit bad to do so for

so i got you/c4

[outed wolf]

nutella, zack, back me up here, lets make this day spicy if nothing else, put some meaning into today

[staypositivefriend]

@outed wolf - i'm open to exploring worlds where dyachei/syn/etc are all villagers, and i don't even think it's impossible that we live in that world, but i get the impression that your feelings about dya/syn are more based on the paranoia that you could be wrong more than anything substantial? i dunno, i just feel like you're jumping the gun, and both you and nutella's read on me feels like you're using your paranoia to default to wolfreading someone you think is a deep wolf

i guess i'm just saying that i am open to exploring other options, and i think it's healthy to do so, but you should due your due diligence and RR my ISO or formulate some reasons for why you actually find me wolfy if you're gonna commit to pushing on me

[outed wolf]

ive had a shit game so far, so i gotta turn it around somewhere and try to realise where ive been going wrong

[staypositivefriend]

@outed wolf - i'm open to exploring worlds where dyachei/syn/etc are all villagers, and i don't even think it's impossible that we live in that world, but i get the impression that your feelings about dya/syn are more based on the paranoia that you could be wrong more than anything substantial? i dunno, i just feel like you're jumping the gun, and both you and nutella's read on me feels like you're using your paranoia to default to wolfreading someone you think is a deep wolf

i guess i'm just saying that i am open to exploring other options, and i think it's healthy to do so, but you should due your due diligence and RR my ISO or formulate some reasons for why you actually find me wolfy if you're gonna commit to pushing on me

i typo'd the ending of the first paragraph, i meant to say that it felt like you and nutella were defaulting to someone that you think is "capable" of being a deepwolf, instead of actually finding my posts wolfy

[nutella]

re-read d3 nutella

when vulgard was trying to post his way out of the peek and people were turning to his side and saying maybe he's town i shut him down and told him to stuff it

look at how he treats me all game

calling me more likely w/w with vulgard than arete is bonkers

I think aretes pov is just clearly uninformed tbh

Like I considered vulgard v worlds for a bit

and could argue that you could be wolf with tmi figuring he'd be going down that day anyway and positioning well

but i dont really think that's the case, I think you're far more likely a villabro with strong instincts

meh, maybe would still vote arete before you if it got to that point, but i feel like it just won't

[staypositivefriend]

i feel like youre saying that dya/syn are villagers because you Feel like it's true, and not because you actually have any reason for it to be true?

i really dont get it. even if they are villagers i don't understand how you reached the conclusion

[bronana]

nutella, zack, back me up here, lets make this day spicy if nothing else, put some meaning into today

pound sand nerd

i honestly cannot tell how serious you are being here, it feels like you are trolling

[staypositivefriend]

@nutella - if you can, please make it a priority to ISO me and get a stronger read on me one way or another as soon as you're able to, cause i feel like you've been circling around pushing on me all day but havent actually committed. if you wolfread me, then vote me! but i don't think you actually have any reason to wolfread me because paranoia and vague Gut feelings

[bronana]

re-read d3 nutella

when vulgard was trying to post his way out of the peek and people were turning to his side and saying maybe he's town i shut him down and told him to stuff it

look at how he treats me all game

calling me more likely w/w with vulgard than arete is bonkers

I think aretes pov is just clearly uninformed tbh

Like I considered vulgard v worlds for a bit

and could argue that you could be wolf with tmi figuring he'd be going down that day anyway and positioning well

but i dont really think that's the case, I think you're far more likely a villabro with strong instincts

meh, maybe would still vote arete before you if it got to that point, but i feel like it just won't

no way i make noise questioning the arete/vulgard godread thing if arete is V and imma wolf

sure distancing is a thing but thats just gross negligence, vulgard was in zero trouble and getting strongly townread by a villager claiming a godread? why would i mess with that lol, i'm not the type of wolf who's obssessed with being right about everything

[nutella]

@nutella - if you can, please make it a priority to ISO me and get a stronger read on me one way or another as soon as you're able to, cause i feel like you've been circling around pushing on me all day but havent actually committed. if you wolfread me, then vote me! but i don't think you actually have any reason to wolfread me because paranoia and vague Gut feelings

vulgards early mentions of you on d1 didn't make me feel good for one thing
but i will try to reread you at some point

[staypositivefriend]

@nutella - if you can, please make it a priority to ISO me and get a stronger read on me one way or another as soon as you're able to, cause i feel like you've been circling around pushing on me all day but havent actually committed. if you wolfread me, then vote me! but i don't think you actually have any reason to wolfread me because paranoia and vague Gut feelings

vulgards early mentions of you on d1 didn't make me feel good for one thing
but i will try to reread you at some point

i dunno what "didn't make me feel good" even means, vulgard's hyperfixation on me at the beginning of d1 should be NAI at the very least, because it's obvious that his playstyle as a wolf requires him to wax poetic and write a million paragraphs about specific players, and he would arguably be more likely to hyperfixate on a villager than on his partner

like i don't mind you wolfreading me, i just want you to make up your mind. if you believe that i'm a wolf, then you should believe it, and you should substantiate it, but not having an opinion on me beyond: "might be a wolf, might not" isn't a good thing at this stage in the game, IMO

[Dyslexicon]

That feeling when Safari no longer is able to open Cindy Kate, but if you use Chrome, it's fine?

I'm back from my trip, and I'm going to read this day. Probably.

[bronana]

it's obvious that his playstyle as a wolf requires him to wax poetic and write a million paragraphs about specific players

Spoiler: show

[bronana]

thread has the mouthfeel of a bunch of villagers fighting over pointless crap cause they're bored

[bronana]

@outed wolf

[outed wolf]

one of these damn days i will host a lotr game

[bronana]

[VOTE: arete] aubergine

[Arete]

tbh the biggest thing making it hard for me to see Dya being not a wolf is how Vul handled things approaching EoD2

like if that was V/V it makes objectively more sense for him to just stick with voting Dya, who he had been saying was more likely wolf than Alison (who he spent most of the day calling a villager), there's no reason for him to not just do that

maaayyybe 'thinking he would switch to wolfreading Alison as villa' but

[outed wolf]

[VOTE: arete] aubergine

[bronana]

i found this random gif on google and i like to think it's legolas being flabbergasted by aragorn's aggressive seer cover

[Arete]

oh

I have great timing

[outed wolf]

lol

[bronana]

if syn is town PROBABLY Arete but idfk
i think bronana is a wolf if both chloe and dyachei are town actually

zack is town

why? to both of you

[outed wolf]

when i play flare into counterspell

[staypositivefriend]

@nutella - if you can, please make it a priority to ISO me and get a stronger read on me one way or another as soon as you're able to, cause i feel like you've been circling around pushing on me all day but havent actually committed. if you wolfread me, then vote me! but i don't think you actually have any reason to wolfread me because paranoia and vague Gut feelings

vulgards early mentions of you on d1 didn't make me feel good for one thing
but i will try to reread you at some point

i dunno what "didn't make me feel good" even means, vulgard's hyperfixation on me at the beginning of d1 should be NAI at the very least, because it's obvious that his playstyle as a wolf requires him to wax poetic and write a million paragraphs about specific players, and he would arguably be more likely to hyperfixate on a villager than on his partner

like i don't mind you wolfreading me, i just want you to make up your mind. if you believe that i'm a wolf, then you should believe it, and you should substantiate it, but not having an opinion on me beyond: "might be a wolf, might not" isn't a good thing at this stage in the game, IMO

tbh this post was a bit harsh, the sentiment of: "i want your read on me to have more substance to it in either direction" is true, but i worded it fairly aggressively. sorry nutella!

[staypositivefriend]

i need to sleep but i cant stop refreshing the thread lol

[Arete]

fwiw I know that everyone always says this and half the time they don't follow through but I should be able to be more active/less ~underwhelming~ tomorrow (as in game-day tomorrow not real-world tomorrow)

amazingly thinking 'light game' meant 'I can play during finals' is not the dumbest thing I've done all game

I can't really respond to the point on Vulgard because ... yeah, I sure did misread the player I thought I had a godread on, to the point of accusing an unCCed PR over him. that is a thing that happened this game.

I think probably I would have handled the redcheck differently as scum but I guess I don't know for sure

[staypositivefriend]

fwiw im leaning more and more on arete just being town

[Marluxion]

what do you think of the possibility of arete/syn

The "FOL has replaced Marl with KZA" scumteam

[Dyslexicon]

something feels a little off to me rn - it might be because syn's indignation about dya being town is difficult for me to wrap my head around, but it also makes me feel doubtful that the solve is as easy as exactly dya/syn

I feel this.

cool but like. marl is not even worth looking at rn

convince me it's in c4/syn/spf and i might spare you a day

I feel this.

thread seems super dumb rn

nothing is going to get done if people are so needlessly hostile, the best towns are cooperative

I feel this.

[bronana]

i need to sleep but i cant stop refreshing the thread lol

me: put the phone down, time to sleep

me two minutes later:

[outed wolf]

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

for spicy y not

see you guys for eod i guess

[Marluxion]

me trying to keep dyachei as the main wagon until dyachei themself comes and towntells rather than just swapping out of slowgame paranoia

[Dyslexicon]

I think this is dumb. I don’t think it’s that hard.

I literally town read Vul. My observation was in spite of that. Not concerned with making up a story that would make sense or be coherent. If my motivation was getting cred or something I’d make it a big thing.

You’re asking the wrong questions. You don’t know me.

You're missing my point again. What if maybe, just maybe, there was no motivation? Is it really that far out of your wolf range to just say random shit about your buddies?

Yes, actually, it is. As wolf I overthink and plan everything. The mentality I have as wolf is completely different from when I'm town, which is why I hate playing as that alignment. I would never say random shit about teammates as wolf without it being thoroughly planned.

Correct me on any of the below assumptions.

1. Anyone with a third neuron knows that dya, Syn and I will all be dead by D7.
2. You think the game will end once dya, Syn and I are all dead.
3. You care about what I'm saying about you right now.

1. Probably true if you've followed the game closely and have an overview at this time, but I didn't. Haven't been able to read much at all the last few days. I want Dya to be chopped today, and haven't thought much past that.
2. No, I have never said that. In fact, if you used 10 % of the passion you have whining about me not being in most people's PoE on actually reading my posts, you would know that I came into the game with a PoE of Dya + c4/SPF/Nut. This is before I had really considered stuff. I also completely forgot about Syn at that time.
3. It annoys me and I don't understand where it's coming from. So yes, I care in two ways: 1. Why is this important to you and can I get an AI read off of it? 2. Fucking annoying.

Do you see the conflict here? Why should what I'm saying about you now matter to you if you'll win whether I say it or not?

What the fuck are these words?
Your assumptions are all strange and wrong. I'll get annoyed as fuck when people don't understand me, don't even try for a second to listen or actually understand where I'm coming from and is coming at me with dumb shit when I don't understand why. Like, you seem real passionate about wanting to drag me for some reason. If you use some of that passion actually listen to me and listen to what other people say about me, or like actually figuring out my alignment, I think that would be a lot more productive.

Am I town or scum to you?

I can think of a scenario where me saying what I'm saying now could affect your win condition. Guess what that scenario is?

This is the sort of phrasing that is fucking annoying. "Guess what that is hmmmm???"

Your problems here are several:
You are complete ignoring what I'm actually saying and you're making shit up that isn't real.
You are also ignoring what others are saying about me. They know me and you don't. So maybe you should listen.
For some reason you are only considering the angle where I'm wolf. It's like "Do you see how I think you might react this way as a wolf, hmm?" Which first of all, actually no. And second of all - can you get out of that perspective and see how what I'm doing is coming from town?

And I have no idea why you try to make me reacting to your posts a wolf thing. "Why would you care unless you're a wolf, hmmm?"
Cause we all know no villager ever gets annoyed at wrong assumptions and shit thrown at them and will just bypass it and not care. Please. I'll react to wrong takes on me. Take some time and listen. I don't understand why you're so passionate about getting this out, when you have zero passion for getting your concerns answered and taking that in.

[outed wolf]

kill c4 with me dizzy

[Dyslexicon]

If we want productive discussion, we could just go back to:

Why is Dizzy town?

This has literally been answered already. I've talked about it. Nut has talked about it. Others. If you choose to ignore it, so be it. But this is your job to figure out.

[Dyslexicon]

kill c4 with me dizzy

No. But do your thing. I'm not D1-me.

[Dyslexicon]

My gut pre backread says there is one in Nutella or Dizzy for how they tried to push me as a wolf yesterday before resigning to the Vulgard yeet

I've already tried to explain this, but I'll try once more. Please listen.

I did not try to push you as wolf, I actually thought you were the likeliest wolf for a second.
The reason I thought this was actually based on a mechanical misunderstanding/I forgot something.
Here's what I thought: The only reason scum wouldn't kill Amy was if they were sure to hit another better PT instead of her. And the only way they could be sure was from your chat with Vul, and you believing his claim. And so that all made sense to me, how you would block and kill Vul instead.
However - and I think I began to realise this before your big reaction to me - this doesn't track, because there is another obvious reason why scum wouldn't kill Amy, and that is they thought she'd be jailkept, so they didn't target her. Which made it likelier to me that anyone could've targeted Vul, and not just you. (And I was leaning Vul being town at that time.)
Also, your big reaction to me immediately made me reconsider hard, and I think that shows.

Last day you criticised me for trying to make the situation a false dichotomy between you/Vul. If I was trying to do that, it would be dumb as shit if I was teamed with Vul, and dummer to be going for you while at the same time creating that dichotomy.
That dichotomy existed for me because I didn't understand how else scum would not just kill Amy, cause it should be a free confirmed PT kill.
But again, I forgot about the jailkeep.
So when that dichotomy no longer existed for me, I understood why everyone was voting elsewhere, and I was leaning on voting Dya. I thought you were town for how you reacted to me, and I thought it was possible both you and Vul was in fact town. At some point when I came back, Vul's posts had deteriorated and I followed others onto him instead. I had also not read much at that point.
The reason I thought Vul was town is probably not the best as it was both a consensus read and honestly felt that regardless of Arete's alignment, her absurdly strong defense of Vul would mean Vul was likely town. I didn't pay much attention to him myself, mostly sponged, as I don't know him from before.

This was a lot. But I hope it makes sense and clears up my perspective.

[Dyslexicon]

thread has the mouthfeel of a bunch of villagers fighting over pointless crap cause they're bored

"Why is no one talking about the mouthfeel."

[Dyslexicon]

Ok, so.

I think Dya is just mafia.
- I still think I had a real catch in Vul's posts about Dya. Those were:
1. Vul saying "The read Dya has been repping for a while", showing that he knew it was not a real read.
2. Vul saying something that read to me like "I've seen Dya react this way as town as well", which read to me as TMI that Dya is mafia.
- I completely agree with Arete that Vul dancing around the Dya/Alison wagons was weird as well. I remember thinking that when I read it back then as well, but I don't remember if I said it. But he was acting real awkward about it, and I agree with Arete on that pointing towards Dya as mafia.
- I don't feel Dya has ever tried to figure out my alignment in this game.
- Dya didn't feel like a villager who was expecting a scum flip at all when we chopped Alison.

If Dya is not mafia, game is exciting.

I expect Dya to be mafia, and I have thoughts beyond this. But I'll surely be alive next day to expand.

I'm not at all convinced Syn is mafia with Dya. I don't know what's with the attitude. He could be town who's just wrong and defending Dya for some reason.

Dya joining in on the lolcats could point to the solution being a little bit trickier.
I don't want anyone, and especially not Nut to freak out about it, but I still had a pretty strong feeling about Dya/Nut distancing on D2 or whenever it was. Nut was a consensus town read, however Dya did not town read Nut and accused them of not doing things Nut normally did as town. As mafia, I think it would be strange for Dya to take this position on a universally town read town!Nutella. But they have more incentive to do it if Nut is their partner. It's also much easier to see how a partner is not acting up to their town self when you are teamed. It also wouldn't be as bad to lolcat with Vul if Dya felt safer in their last partner having a better position in thread.

This said, I do think Nut has been generally towny, and I've also shared many of her thoughts tbh.
I haven't revisited this, but wanted to just put it out there.
There will be plenty of time to discuss this and other theories, assuming Dya flips mafia.
If Dya doesn't flip mafia, I don't really know right now, and I'd rather cross that bridge if I have to later.
But I firmly want to go for Dya here.

General warning: The last few days I was on a work trip and extremely busy. I have not read most the end/last half of D3. I do miss context in the thread.

[outed wolf]

Tangrowth's posts keep flying past me and it's increasingly concerning to me.

Okay? Talk to me then. I'm trying to find a polite way to put this... that sounds more like a you thing than a me thing, but that doesn't matter, I'd like to help bridge the gap somehow.

Like someone makes no effort to even work with me at all and then says "posts are flying past me", yeah, okay.

Also Vulgard thank you so much for the longer post, not sure I can really engage with it given the timing, would rather continue skimming and interacting with folks down the stretch, but I appreciate the re-examination and subsequent question sna everything, really.

@Tangrowth There's one thing I've just noticed about your updated readlist. Me and Arete have both expressed doubt about your slot. It looks like you pushed us both further down your readlist for it. Why is that? Asking more about Arete than I'm asking about myself, but curious about both. Didn't notice other townreads moving down.

Did I push Arete down for it? I don't think so, maybe it was more visible because I had it alphabetical last time and my POE shrunk. Either way, it can be a typical tendency of mine when I'm town, especially in the early game, to naturally gravitate towards working more with and/or town reading players who agree with me, and I suppose a portion of that is inherent agreement with the only bit of TMI that I have (my own alignment). I wouldn't say that's the main reason for either of your placements, although I spoke to how I wasn't sure if I bought Arete's treatment of me in the first reads list post, and that still stands.

Your falling was sort of like... like Zack, I was grouping both of you together in a sort of like "these people felt pretty solid to me when composing first reads list post-catch up" and post-second catch up I felt that less with each of you, um I'm not entirely sure how much of that particularly in your case was due to not giving you enough attention either, so that's entirely plausible and I wouldn't mean to say like "hey work with me" and get a bit snippy about it and then make no effort to do so and move you down myself, but that may have been more of a factor than I would have liked, lol. This is a lot of words to say your solving stood out to me more during first reads list compilation than the second time around.

I hope this makes sense, let me know.

are these w/w iyo?

[outed wolf]

i think syn and dyachei are villagers

sorry for wasting yall time earlier

[outed wolf]

eh maybe that was too low a bar to clear

[Marluxion]

@Syn you have anything resembling a scumread yet? i'll take anything

[Marluxion]

The introduction to the readlist also looks very hard to fake from a wolf POV. It goes on about far more things than it needs to. If Tangrowth is a wolf, she decided to produce a high-quality wallpost for no reason. The only suspicion she faced at that point was a weak push from Arete and nobody asked for a readlist.

this line really irks me about tangrowth though
from vulgards pov tang SHOULD be a villager so why feel the need to word it like this?