PSY 2310 - Cognitive Psychology [END]

[nutella]

i'm really torn between this being Just Easy Game and there being Something Wrong and that Something Wrong almost certainly would mean spf is wolfing

[staypositivefriend]

@Vulgard Such analysis wow. If others think Vulgard is town, I'm ok with sleeping this. I did have a probably dumb tinfoil of Dya/Vulgard from two specific posts where Vulgard probably just misspoke to/about Dya. This will later turn out correct, but I will forget it. Jk jk. Probably town then.

if dya actually is a wolf, then this post is very funny

[nutella]

I'm pretty sure Vul is already out of his wolfrange from his linguistic analysis of SPF but there are a couple points in his posts that are very yikes

right now I would call him like 98 percent town but I should have a more confident read later and this isn't at sheepable territory yet

(for the unfamiliar, Vul and I have highly accurate reads on each other, essentially 100 percent accurate discounting third parties)

Any reads on your end other than the read on Tangrowth?

Currently reading SPF's CoV ISO. If anyone has other wolfgames she played on forum, link them to me, please. I'm trying to verify if I correctly spotted a tell between her village/wolfplay.

a mention of spf finally. nothing really telling here and I wish I remembered arete's read on the syn slot at this time

arete was casing tangy at the time

and this is an interesting pull actually. i can read into this quote a certain way with tinfoil glasses

[staypositivefriend]

I'm pretty sure Vul is already out of his wolfrange from his linguistic analysis of SPF but there are a couple points in his posts that are very yikes

right now I would call him like 98 percent town but I should have a more confident read later and this isn't at sheepable territory yet

(for the unfamiliar, Vul and I have highly accurate reads on each other, essentially 100 percent accurate discounting third parties)

Any reads on your end other than the read on Tangrowth?

Currently reading SPF's CoV ISO. If anyone has other wolfgames she played on forum, link them to me, please. I'm trying to verify if I correctly spotted a tell between her village/wolfplay.

a mention of spf finally. nothing really telling here and I wish I remembered arete's read on the syn slot at this time

vulgard mentioned me roughly a dozen times in his first post alone - im confused about the use of the word "finally" here

[bronana]

thread seems super dumb rn

nothing is going to get done if people are so needlessly hostile, the best towns are cooperative

[dyachei]

I'm pretty sure Vul is already out of his wolfrange from his linguistic analysis of SPF but there are a couple points in his posts that are very yikes

right now I would call him like 98 percent town but I should have a more confident read later and this isn't at sheepable territory yet

(for the unfamiliar, Vul and I have highly accurate reads on each other, essentially 100 percent accurate discounting third parties)

Any reads on your end other than the read on Tangrowth?

Currently reading SPF's CoV ISO. If anyone has other wolfgames she played on forum, link them to me, please. I'm trying to verify if I correctly spotted a tell between her village/wolfplay.

a mention of spf finally. nothing really telling here and I wish I remembered arete's read on the syn slot at this time

vulgard mentioned me roughly a dozen times in his first post alone - im confused about the use of the word "finally" here

aside from that one post he hadn't mentioned you much

[Arete]

I'm pretty sure Vul is already out of his wolfrange from his linguistic analysis of SPF but there are a couple points in his posts that are very yikes

right now I would call him like 98 percent town but I should have a more confident read later and this isn't at sheepable territory yet

(for the unfamiliar, Vul and I have highly accurate reads on each other, essentially 100 percent accurate discounting third parties)

Any reads on your end other than the read on Tangrowth?

Currently reading SPF's CoV ISO. If anyone has other wolfgames she played on forum, link them to me, please. I'm trying to verify if I correctly spotted a tell between her village/wolfplay.

a mention of spf finally. nothing really telling here and I wish I remembered arete's read on the syn slot at this time

that was after I initially cased Tangy

[outed wolf]

thread seems super dumb rn

nothing is going to get done if people are so needlessly hostile, the best towns are cooperative

ye yall should prob tone it down a bit

even if we/yall are confident in our poes, theres still every chance we are wrong so working together seems like the move bronanas

[dyachei]

I might be demanding too much from Hally, but last time I played with them they 400 posted on day 1 (I know this is a light game). Another key thing is that I was paranoid about them the whole game. I recognized her contributions as towny in a vacuum, but still couldn't shake off the feeling they were W.

This game's completely different. It's less anything specific and more a few niche things. Like the fact Hally isn't building a voltron when I'm told town!Hally is the cooperative archetype. I can't follow their progression on Zack and SPF. It looks like they townread both because the duo scumread nutella for "valid reasons." Hally townreading nutella despite acknowledging those reasons could come from TMI. In a world where Hally's a wolf, their treatment of Zack and SPF is either pocketing or townreading mates. Alternatively, Nutella is the wolf and Hally's defending. It doesn't feel like the reads from these interactions formed naturally. SPF I could buy because there was at least some questioning going on, but Zack gets one for nothing. To say nothing of c4 who Hally slides in there and gives no thoughts about.

I'm checking their ISO and their townreads don't look warranted. Amy and nutella are fine, but Zack/c4/SPF got townreads for no clear reason. Hally questions what SPF's been doing and comes out of it with a townread because... why? Because the way SPF approached her read on nutella? The fact Hally isn't explaining it looks like they're trying to let SPF!town consensus slide in. "If SPF's called town enough times, we can get it." Either a w/w maneuver or a pocket. Either way it doesn't look justified.

In the game I played with Hally, where they were town, I could at least tell how they were reaching conclusions. They were questioning players and forming reads on them that way. There was some level of meandering in those reads, mind-changing, doubt. Here I see confident reads back to back to back and half of them seem to have come from flimsy bases (plural of basis?). I don't mind people giving lots of townreads on principle but the way Hally's doing it isn't believable to me.

Don't ask why I decided to go back to Hally instead of continuing to read SPF's ISO.

I think I called Hally a she instead of a they sometime before in my ISO, sorry if I did.

this is a kind of interesting interaction with spf via his hally read. I know they were using it to sus hally, but I wonder if the reason he was really stuck on the spf read was because they're partnered?

[nutella]

thread seems super dumb rn

nothing is going to get done if people are so needlessly hostile, the best towns are cooperative

ye yall should prob tone it down a bit

even if we/yall are confident in our poes, theres still every chance we are wrong so working together seems like the move bronanas

ive been rude to dya a bit yeah and im sorry. i'm giving them space now and i like that theyre actually pulling stuff up, and i am in fact considering worlds where the easy world is wrong

[staypositivefriend]

I'm pretty sure Vul is already out of his wolfrange from his linguistic analysis of SPF but there are a couple points in his posts that are very yikes

right now I would call him like 98 percent town but I should have a more confident read later and this isn't at sheepable territory yet

(for the unfamiliar, Vul and I have highly accurate reads on each other, essentially 100 percent accurate discounting third parties)

Any reads on your end other than the read on Tangrowth?

Currently reading SPF's CoV ISO. If anyone has other wolfgames she played on forum, link them to me, please. I'm trying to verify if I correctly spotted a tell between her village/wolfplay.

a mention of spf finally. nothing really telling here and I wish I remembered arete's read on the syn slot at this time

vulgard mentioned me roughly a dozen times in his first post alone - im confused about the use of the word "finally" here

aside from that one post he hadn't mentioned you much

hmm?

the post that you quoted is the 10th post in vulgard's ISO

he mentioned me, by name, a total of 15 times prior to that post. while it is true that 13 of those 15 mentions were in one post, i'm having trouble understanding how you view that as vulgard: "not mentioning me much". the exact opposite seems to be true, especially since it was his 10th post?

[outed wolf]

c4, dya and KZA are in the "no impressions made" club and I would like them to play the game. I do not townread c4 for a carefully voiced scumread (?) on SPF. That's in any average wolf's wolfrange and I think SPF is too quick to clear them regardless of alignment.

dya and KZA just haven't talked about the game much yet. Dya got offended based on a single accusation if I read that correctly, and KZA 5-posted and dipped.

found the wolves hehe

[nutella]

vulgard did talk about spf a lot in his big first post yes


and now my brain is screaming at me "spf wolf spf wolf spf wolf" and i probably need to take a break but aaaa

[dyachei]

it's just how it felt to me at the time spf

[staypositivefriend]

vulgard did talk about spf a lot in his big first post yes


and now my brain is screaming at me "spf wolf spf wolf spf wolf" and i probably need to take a break but aaaa

do you have any specific concerns, or is it just paranoia?

[dyachei]

@Vulgard - regarding https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 00#p797367, you need to re-read the beginning of the thread again. a lot of the stuff you said was factually inaccurate and i suspect that it's because you were rushing through the thread in your catch-up. i did not townread hally - i actually threw shade on hally early on, and i'm confused at how you missed that early exchange between us. i think that you're town though, and it's primarily because of your progression on me. if you were a wolf and you wanted to make up a reason to justify your suspicion toward me, there would be a lot of easier avenues to that destination than to pontificate about my meta for a page or two and then conclude that you were incorrect all along. if you wanted to pocket me or get in my good graces, there are also easier ways to do that than the paranoid, uncertain attitude you've shown toward me within the last couple of pages. it comes off like you are genuinely trying to consider my alignment, and that's a feeling that is reflected in most of the posts i've seen from you (ie: your read on hally)

I'll admit one thing here. I thought you townread Hally, because: At first you did question Hally, yes, but then they explained themselves. At that point you went like "fair enough" which I took as a townread. I didn't consider that townread warranted.

Aside from that. Despite you explaining it extensively in this post, I still don't understand how you townread me from your perspective. I made a factually incorrect push on you (from your presented perspective). Your response is to call me town for it because it looks genuine. What separates my push from agenda, especially if I got facts wrong? Don't wolves try to misconstrue the facts as part of their agenda? How can you tell whether I did it on purpose or not?

Basically, this post looks like a pocket/placating attempt to me. And yes, I've just called my push agenda because I'm not sure how SPF concluded I'm V. I'd expect most villagers I push for factually incorrect reasons to think I'm a wolf. Either that, or berate me for flimsy reasoning. I'm used to that as well. I'd expect SPF to wolfread me back or get suspicious of me if she's town.

This treatment feels... off.

SPF don't read:

Spoiler: show

Or maybe I'm not accustomed to being understood and I wolfread it on instinct.

I totally don't want SPF to just be town.

thiws post is kind of a good look for spf

[nutella]

the post in question:

SPF hasn't selfvoted yet. Sus.

Amy's town. Early comfort in the thread, and the read on Zack has a level of nuance I wouldn't expect from a wolf on page 1. It doesn't look like Amy's forcing herself to make a nuanced read for townpoints. It has a natural buildup/progression.

Hally calling it a push on Zack and V-leaning Amy for it is interesting. I didn't see it as a push, per se, just an early scumread. Fmpov she's overestimating the value of Amy's post.

Some part of my brain tells me Hally is conscious about her teammate, Zack, getting scumread. Would explain why she's placating Amy in that world; but I dislike preflips, so. Might come back to it later.

I tonally like outed wolf's response to Hally's post there. SPF townreads it, though, and later calls c4e town based on them voting her.

Imagine I'm voting spf for the first time

town

This mean you know why?

not really - i just see that you're being coy about your reasoning for finding me suspicious and keeping your cards close to your chest, which is the direct inverse of how you approached the early game as a wolf in CoV, which makes me think that youre probably just playing from a villager mindset

(you also agreed with me about arete's vote being vaguely towny even though i did not put that thought into the thread and decided to keep it to myself)

This is too far out there. Her extrapolating so much from that post looks like TMI. Saying SPF is sus for not selfvoting was a meme, but her being quick to townread both c4e and Hally is wolfy. Neither deserves early townreads for their posting. Especially not Hally, who SPF has experience with as both alignments.

Zack notices that about SPF, but his take is "wolf writes a post they think sounds good," not "wolf TMIng c4e/Hally (?)." Still like the fact he chose to point that out, though he isn't committing. V lean.

SPF calling nutella nervous also feels like a conclusion drawn too early. It being instantly sheeped is another thing.

I like the spark in nutella's response to SPF wolfreading her. No defensiveness, a lot of snark, plus an unrelated wolfread showing she's solving. Her wolfread isn't predicated on the people voting/pushing her, either. SPF's treatment of nutella is another story. Below is another post that I read a few times and keep getting the impression SPF knows nutella's town. Mostly about the language she uses. Relevant parts bolded.

no, you are still misconstruing literally everything i said and everything i tried to explain in the very response you are quoting

stop twisting my words

you said my post was suspicious because of "nervous energy" or something and i've explained that that is because of my efforts to conserve posts and the fact that doing so is incredibly unnatural for me and makes the tone of my posts sound unnatural

so no, i haven't misrepresented your reasoning, i've acknowledged it

and i did not call dya wolfy so stop fucking implying i did, that's really uh. un-- well. the u word. you know the one

so, to recap, the wording of your original post was this:

"ah yes putting multiy thoughts in one post is wolfy for me, it is known

dya however has multiple posts with zero thoughts

there is a cap of 100 with no lift"

the reasoning here is that if it's wolfy for you to put multiple thoughts into one post, it's also wolfy for dyachei to make multiple posts with zero thoughts, yes? you are drawing a contrast between dyachei and yourself, and saying that people should be looking at dyachei instead of you if they're looking for wolfy behavior, right?

if that's not what you mean to say, then i do apologize for misconstruing your words, but i don't really see any other way to interpret that post. you are not saying that you personally find dyachei wolfy, but you are attempting to draw attention to behavior from dyachei that looks wolfy, yes?

to recap further, when you said the following:

"ah yes putting multiy thoughts in one post is wolfy for me, it is known"

you were characterizing the reasoning for people scumreading you as being about your attempts to condense your posts, when the real reason was ~nervousness~. i understand that you are saying that you sounding tonally off is a byproduct of you attempting to conserve your posts, but you have to admit that you made a bit of an extrapolation there, yes? you used hyperbolized language to describe what you perceived as the real reason people were scumreading you for, and then used that as the foundation for your argument. that's why i called it a "misrepresentation"

i don't really see the point in getting bogged down in a discussion like this, so we should probably table it here, but i am put off by the aggressiveness and i felt like it was important to make this post and explain my perspective, because we are clearly miscommunicating incredibly badly if we're both town

nutella is a villager

what makes you think so?

Alison's opening is ~fine? I had a thought about it but it disappeared, and this annoys me. Her take that sunbae/bronana/outed wolf contains a wolf based on the nutella push is decent on the surface. Don't agree with bronana being mafia, though. Their evaluation of SPF's post on page 1 is a villagery thought and I'm comfortable V reading them for having it.

Amy's posts are still super towny as I continue to read. How large is her scumrange?

SPF and Hally both vote Gavial. I actually agree. I was going to say that in this post but I see other people said it first. I've played many games with Gavial and caught him as a wolf several times, can link the games if you'd like. His play in this game so far looks squarely in wolf meta. The only concern I have is that it's SPF and Hally who pointed that out.

SPF's been posting lots more words. I'm beginning to think my initial scumread is a playstyle thing more than anything else. I should probably go read her CoV ISO for #reasons.

@nutella Where's the massive KZA townread coming from? Their posts didn't give me any impression whatsoever.

Didn't like Sunbae's initial posts but their posting this page has been good. Very high complexity of thought. I wolfread them in MU anni last year precisely because their thoughts didn't have that iirc. And because I disagreed with their takes a lot. Sunbae's take on Alison here is pretty good and I see where Sunbae's coming from.

Okay I'm done.

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

If they're town I should know this by EoD.

Same with Arete. Right now I'm null. Don't think anything they've done so far is out of their wolfrange. And you shouldn't underestimate Arete's wolfrange.

like it's the kind of stuff that could be preemptive early credit grabs on a teammate in the case she flips later on down the line but before him

[staypositivefriend]

it's just how it felt to me at the time spf

alright. i won't go too hard on that specific point, but my current feeling/concern is that you chose to frame that post uncharitably because you need to keep me in your POE

[nutella]

@Vulgard - regarding https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 00#p797367, you need to re-read the beginning of the thread again. a lot of the stuff you said was factually inaccurate and i suspect that it's because you were rushing through the thread in your catch-up. i did not townread hally - i actually threw shade on hally early on, and i'm confused at how you missed that early exchange between us. i think that you're town though, and it's primarily because of your progression on me. if you were a wolf and you wanted to make up a reason to justify your suspicion toward me, there would be a lot of easier avenues to that destination than to pontificate about my meta for a page or two and then conclude that you were incorrect all along. if you wanted to pocket me or get in my good graces, there are also easier ways to do that than the paranoid, uncertain attitude you've shown toward me within the last couple of pages. it comes off like you are genuinely trying to consider my alignment, and that's a feeling that is reflected in most of the posts i've seen from you (ie: your read on hally)

I'll admit one thing here. I thought you townread Hally, because: At first you did question Hally, yes, but then they explained themselves. At that point you went like "fair enough" which I took as a townread. I didn't consider that townread warranted.

Aside from that. Despite you explaining it extensively in this post, I still don't understand how you townread me from your perspective. I made a factually incorrect push on you (from your presented perspective). Your response is to call me town for it because it looks genuine. What separates my push from agenda, especially if I got facts wrong? Don't wolves try to misconstrue the facts as part of their agenda? How can you tell whether I did it on purpose or not?

Basically, this post looks like a pocket/placating attempt to me. And yes, I've just called my push agenda because I'm not sure how SPF concluded I'm V. I'd expect most villagers I push for factually incorrect reasons to think I'm a wolf. Either that, or berate me for flimsy reasoning. I'm used to that as well. I'd expect SPF to wolfread me back or get suspicious of me if she's town.

This treatment feels... off.

SPF don't read:

Spoiler: show

Or maybe I'm not accustomed to being understood and I wolfread it on instinct.

I totally don't want SPF to just be town.

thiws post is kind of a good look for spf

i'm not sure i agree aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[bronana]

vulgard struck me as the kind of wolf who likes to wax poetic about the alignments of villagers and doesn't talk a ton about his partners

[dyachei]

vulgard struck me as the kind of wolf who likes to wax poetic about the alignments of villagers and doesn't talk a ton about his partners

then you should agree I'm not a wolf

[dyachei]

ugh then he starts treating spf like a villager

[nutella]

does vulgard shade v!spf on d1 with any illusions of it going anywhere? is he sowing a seed of doubt on her that he quickly pulls back on and just treats her as v? or are they teammates and he knows she'll prob be decently deep and he wants to throw some shade on her early as preemptive distancing? and/or is he kinda tmiing her wolf in those couple posts??

brain is broken

[staypositivefriend]

it seems clear in hindsight that vulgard did the dance of "is spf a wolf? spf might be a wolf! oh no!!!!!!" on d1 because he was interested in drumming up as much paranoia/fear as he could while still posting enough word salad to come off like a villager

vulgard's particular style necessitates that he chooses a couple of villagers to hype fixate on and write long walls of text about, and it's p obvious that i was one of them

i get why it's less obvious from someone who doesnt already ~know~ that im town, but that's how i see it atm

[bronana]

I've been thinking about Zack lately (no sexual).

bronana spewed locktown

[dunya]

reminder!!! If anyone would like to vent to me about the game, I'm all eyes and ears. I am an excellent punching bag and would enjoy the company! Remember that we're all friends here and try to have fun and enjoy the ride!

[nutella]

dya/c4 - seems pretty unlikely from that one vulgard post
dya/syn - feels decently likely to me, is "easy world", but i have the fear
syn/c4 - is secondary "easy world" if dya is v, idk how well it actually fits and i honestly think syn is probably just the same alignment as dya?
c4/spf - the world that my anxious brain is screaming about right now, and i think would explain a fair bit

chop order maybe like c4 first > if wolf then dya/spf, if town then syn/dya? idk im not good at this stuff im just having a Moment

[nutella]

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

[dyachei]

I'm finally on my PC and can look at Tangrowth's ISO.

Early on, she seems withdrawn from the game. She hasn't stuck her head out for anyone. She hasn't been involved in a controversial argument. Nothing. She's just been off by the wayside, doing her own solving. She adopted the role of thread moderator in a notable part of her ISO. I don't MIND that, but it's something a wolf can easily do because it doesn't force them to take stances.

A good thing is that her tone has been super friendly, but I'm trying to look past that. This playerlist is stacked, which is why I'm not giving anyone easy townreads/clears. And when I look past her tone, what I see is someone who hasn't taken any notable stances early on. Aside from easy posts like "nutella town," "why is Amy town."

This ends with her readlist and that's why I townread said readlist. Not only is there a read on every player in the game, some of them are very well-reasoned. There are also takes I consider contrarian. For instance, hard town on Dizzy back when nobody knew what to do with them and how to read their attitude. The reads she feel the strongest about have believable-looking reasoning behind them. Dizzy and Nutella reads in particular.

The Dizzy read especially looks like something you wouldn't bother with as a wolf. If Dizzy's your partner and they're inviting people to vote them... Hard shielding doesn't seem like the best of ideas. If Dizzy's town, they're misyeetable if they continue playing like this. In that case, shielding them isn't advisable, either.

I also townread the fact Tangrowth has Dizzy as "strong town" but uses language like:

"the read is subject to volatility"
"light town read"
"not worried even if I should be"
"the read is self-centered'

These parts imply different strengths / qualities of the read. A wolf wouldn't bother. Even if they wanted to fake nuance, they wouldn't decide to make their read so all over the place. It's your fake top townread, just label them as strong town and move on. What Tangrowth does instead is simultaneously express doubt and comfort. This isn't an agenda read, whether whiteknighting or townreading a partner. If the wolf goal was "pocket / defend Dizzy for townpoints," the read wouldn't need to be this way. If the wolf goal was "shield my partner Dizzy," the read STILL wouldn't need to be this way.

The introduction to the readlist also looks very hard to fake from a wolf POV. It goes on about far more things than it needs to. If Tangrowth is a wolf, she decided to produce a high-quality wallpost for no reason. The only suspicion she faced at that point was a weak push from Arete and nobody asked for a readlist.

I'm perhaps not going to come close to matching a fair portion of this playlist through sheer reads and/or solving methods. That's not really my strength, especially this early on, and even more so with people I don't know and entering a tense environment with an intimidating playerlist that I felt and feel more so on the outer edges of for the most part. I understand why people are explaining pleasantries as things I do, and I appreciate the kind thoughts that underlie such an association, so thanks, really. It is very important to me that people are having fun, particularly with such an enamored group of players, but I do think I may have been less concerned about the discordance in such a way that it would be easier to find my footing if I had TMI right now, even if I'd still try to put everyone at more ease publicly. As it stands... I just sort of feel like I'm dipping my toes in the pool, trying to get a feel for things, and if that means people are going to be hesitant to town read me because I'm hurling softballs or whatever, that's fine I guess, but I just don't feel like waiting for me to produce is a good way to find me as town. I guess I don't know where I fit in with this town at all yet, and that's not a comforting spot to be in... I like feeling like I have a specific purpose. I realize someone could just say well, make reads, do your own thing, but I am not going to force reads that I don't have (hence the questions), and I don't function well in a corner. I'm not expecting anyone to help me with that, it's my place to try to optimize how I can help win us this game, just musing aloud about it. I'm probably >rand in terms of being a self-oriented person, and I'll try to keep such perspective to a minimum and let you all figure me out or find me however you'd like, but I have a direct responsibility to make myself easier to find from my end too, and I wanted these things said nonetheless because I feel like at least some players will struggle to find me based on what's been said already. Anyway, without further ado, a reads list.

this is SO MANY words and i dont have a GODDAMN clue what it says

????? okay, that's fine I guess. You don't really have to. If it's helpful to someone, great, if not then whatever.

This looks genuine. Genuinely deflated. Doubly so when you consider the context. Nutella had been one of Tangrowth's top townreads, and here she's mistreating Tangrowth. Or rather, doesn't seem to be taking Tangrowth's content very seriously. Instead of wolfreading her for it, or changing her read, Tangrowth just seems sad. ...This isn't a wolf reaction. Because it doesn't look fake. Tangrowth looks genuinely hurt by this post.

I'm not continuing with this ISO, I don't need to. Tangrowth is a villager.

Needless to say, I take back my earlier comment. Her posts didn't leave an impression on me because I didn't really look at them.

tangy case. light shade then the read as a villager for the readslist. I think this is easy to fake as w/w

[nutella]

maybe i should think about whether anyone besides c4 fits with spf but i dont want to get too far ahead of myself lmao


maybe she's just town and i need a break

[nutella]

The introduction to the readlist also looks very hard to fake from a wolf POV. It goes on about far more things than it needs to. If Tangrowth is a wolf, she decided to produce a high-quality wallpost for no reason. The only suspicion she faced at that point was a weak push from Arete and nobody asked for a readlist.

mmmm dont love this

[bronana]

vulgard really said "a wolf wouldn't bother" saying

"the read is subject to volatility"
"light town read"
"not worried even if I should be"

as justification to townread tangy

:fry:

[dyachei]

Reading bronana's ISO.

His early posts look like he's trying to be townread. He's relaxed, charismatic, offers takes that look like he's smiling behind the screen. I can't tell how much he believes in any of them. Timing would indicate "not a lot" (RVS stage) but the fact he's still making them...

I don't know.

This ISO just makes me paranoid. There's nothing outright WRONG or super wolfy I see in it, but Zack gives me the impression of competence. I don't take issue with anything in particular he's said, but I can't bring myself to trust him and call him town. Especially since he shows signs of huge self-awareness.

goofy thought alert

sunbae immediately reading spf's self-meta wall from offsite but not reading tangy's whole reads wall is because sunbae/tangy are wolves and spf is town

this read is stupid and i debated whether or not to post it, then decided i'd go for it on the off chance someone calls me villagy for it

wolves are in gavial/dya/hally/arete/alison/kza??? with a side helping of "i haven't done due diligence on visor yet"

marl could also be a wolf but i lean v for now

nobody else activates my fight or flight when i call them town so

possibly

seems a bit too straightforward "yes the wolves are the underwhelming people not posting much" though, I'd wager the actual team is more complex than that

fine as a place to start for day 1/2 though

i mean yes you're right that the names i listed are underwhelming and the names i didn't list aren't, and that does have shades of "too easy"

but i'd rather start in the easy world and run off on a snipe hunt later than do it the other way around, yknow?

gun to head if i were to pick people outside that pool who i haven't quite done diligence on and thus could be fooling me it's probably like. c4 mp7 you

a fine three names for you to bring up, i am somewhat surprised i've gotten such little heat

There's not a TON of that but it does give me pause.

Does anyone have a wolfgame of his I could read and verify? I want to figure out if his approach is different or mostly the same.

compare to the tangy iso. He wants to keep zack in the poe. there wasnt a lot of clearing of tangy at the time, so why did he want tangy to live?

[bronana]

like just compare that with how whenever vulgard said something i did was towny, he made up some bullshit why he didn't actually townread me

[bronana]

nice mindmeld lol

[c4e5g3d5]

I think this is dumb. I don’t think it’s that hard.

I literally town read Vul. My observation was in spite of that. Not concerned with making up a story that would make sense or be coherent. If my motivation was getting cred or something I’d make it a big thing.

You’re asking the wrong questions. You don’t know me.

You're missing my point again. What if maybe, just maybe, there was no motivation? Is it really that far out of your wolf range to just say random shit about your buddies?

Peeved hardcore by the strength of Dizzy's reaction

Why? You literally know shit about me and have clearly not paid attention to me. This is just words.

Correct me on any of the below assumptions.

Anyone with a third neuron knows that dya, Syn and I will all be dead by D7.
You think the game will end once dya, Syn and I are all dead.
You care about what I'm saying about you right now.

Do you see the conflict here? Why should what I'm saying about you now matter to you if you'll win whether I say it or not?
I can think of a scenario where me saying what I'm saying now could affect your win condition. Guess what that scenario is?

[nutella]

cool [VOTE: syn] aubergine lol

[nutella]

I think this is dumb. I don’t think it’s that hard.

I literally town read Vul. My observation was in spite of that. Not concerned with making up a story that would make sense or be coherent. If my motivation was getting cred or something I’d make it a big thing.

You’re asking the wrong questions. You don’t know me.

You're missing my point again. What if maybe, just maybe, there was no motivation? Is it really that far out of your wolf range to just say random shit about your buddies?

Peeved hardcore by the strength of Dizzy's reaction

Why? You literally know shit about me and have clearly not paid attention to me. This is just words.

Correct me on any of the below assumptions.

Anyone with a third neuron knows that dya, Syn and I will all be dead by D7.
You think the game will end once dya, Syn and I are all dead.
You care about what I'm saying about you right now.

Do you see the conflict here? Why should what I'm saying about you now matter to you if you'll win whether I say it or not?
I can think of a scenario where me saying what I'm saying now could affect your win condition. Guess what that scenario is?

no

this is a bad way to read into it

he can still care

[bronana]

c4 are you trying to discern dizzy's alignment or pick a fight with him? it seems like the latter, dizzy's response was reasonable and idk why it "peeved" you so much, you are the one being aggressive calling their posts a bunch of fake poop

[bronana]

@staypositivefriend

do you have an updated/current read on c4?

[dyachei]

his godread on me is real and supported by an extensive history of games as both V/V and V/W

much like his extensive history of games with seth eh?

I'm sort of mrrr about how Outed Wolf is trying to discredit townreads on me/reasons to townread me without actually pushing for me to get killed (or even really expressing more than a slight scumread on me)

it kind of feels like he's trying to make sure that I'm a viable push for the future but doesn't want to get his hands dirty pushing me now

LOL

hilarious post - i said i thought you were a villager yesterday, the post is making light of vulgard not you

alright, what was your motivation behind discrediting Vul's reads?

... because he was wrong? he spent like 80 posts yesterday saying how much of a gavial god reader he was and that we couldnt let gavial slip away and we had to kill gavial

with his EXTENSIVE history of catching gavial and hes NEVER BEEN WRONG BEFORE

and he was wrong.

W R O N G
R
O
N
G

INCORRECT

NOT RIGHT

so i gave him a bit of shit for it

Okay, I laughed.

I still have no read on Alison.

@c4e5g3d5 You were making these weird a aA or something reads on day 1. I thought your later reads / readlist would make it obvious why you were doing that, but they didn't. What was up with that?

I kinda wanna just yeet alison, marl, and nutella into the great sky daddy yee haw

Why Nutella?

Chloe is pretty obviously town. People have called her nervous but this isn't nervous Chloe. Nervous Chloe is wolf Chloe and I'm generally decent at interpreting her posts this way. Her posts read like genuine Chloe who replaced into a town slot and is ready to solve the game. Wolf!Chloe's entrance into the thread would likely be slower, more meticulous, and less aggressive.

Also I'd townread Tangrowth pretty hard. (I'll miss you. Hope you get to resolve whatever- yeah.)

i have never seen beta marluxion

my brain does not know what to do

ioagjeaognjlaegjengjagioe

SPF insisting that KZA has only townread actual villagers doesn't sit right with me, even though she hasn't seen my response yet. It's a really bold claim to make about a wolf who's been posting like garbage from the start of the game. It's an implication KZA wasn't in antispew at all and decided to TMI a bunch of villagers despite knowing he would flip quickly. Is his wolfgame demonstrably so terrible that he'd do that? And even if it is, what's stopping his partners from telling him to go into antispew considering he was a consensus scumread and likely wouldn't survive for long?

I'm kinda townreading Dya for their consistent frustration over being scumread, but at the same time I can only mildly townread them for it for so long. This and their Alison scumread they've been repping for a while are the only things I remember Dya doing, while most other players have voiced reads on every other player in the game, done significant analysis, etc.

Finals of Champs! dya was also kinda boxed in (haha, ha) by similar circumstances but I remember them having more takes there?

more on the syn slot red - doesn't really explain the chloe read at all - like there's a read but it's a non read

[c4e5g3d5]

c4 are you trying to discern dizzy's alignment or pick a fight with him? it seems like the latter, dizzy's response was reasonable and idk why it "peeved" you so much, you are the one being aggressive calling their posts a bunch of fake poop

Nowhere am I calling his posts fake tf are you saying, I'm asking why everyone's hard clearing him and I'm not satisfied with the answers. I don't see how this wasn't clear.

[outed wolf]

like just compare that with how whenever vulgard said something i did was towny, he made up some bullshit why he didn't actually townread me

theres a flipside to this lol

i remember vulgard isoing dya and having problems with a whole bunch of things and then saying at the end i think dya is a villager

[dyachei]

like just compare that with how whenever vulgard said something i did was towny, he made up some bullshit why he didn't actually townread me

theres a flipside to this lol

i remember vulgard isoing dya and having problems with a whole bunch of things and then saying at the end i think dya is a villager

he cased me as a wolf for most of the game

[bronana]

c4 are you trying to discern dizzy's alignment or pick a fight with him? it seems like the latter, dizzy's response was reasonable and idk why it "peeved" you so much, you are the one being aggressive calling their posts a bunch of fake poop

Nowhere am I calling his posts fake tf are you saying, I'm asking why everyone's hard clearing him and I'm not satisfied with the answers. I don't see how this wasn't clear.

you called it "random shit" several times which clearly implies fake to me

[dyachei]

man he was really hedgy on you zack. he clearly wanted you as a mis-elim

[c4e5g3d5]

c4 are you trying to discern dizzy's alignment or pick a fight with him? it seems like the latter, dizzy's response was reasonable and idk why it "peeved" you so much, you are the one being aggressive calling their posts a bunch of fake poop

Nowhere am I calling his posts fake tf are you saying, I'm asking why everyone's hard clearing him and I'm not satisfied with the answers. I don't see how this wasn't clear.

you called it "random shit" several times which clearly implies fake to me

Those were in conditional statements that assumed Dizzy was a wolf
If Dizzy's a wolf, hopefully we can agree that was, in fact, random shit

[dyachei]

c4e5g3d5:

- Asks for ways to read Gavial.
- Claims Gavial is plain bad but ignoring him is "low-risk." I have no idea what he means by that.
- Puts Gavial at the bottom of his readlist. ...What? Where is the progression there? There are no other mentions of Gavial in his ISO beforehand, other than the ones I listed above. His top townread is also Sunbae (next to me), but he has absolutely no progression on this townread. He hadn't even said "sunbae town" beforehand in his ISO. I have no idea how he got there.
- Claims that Alison's treatment of Gavial is "irresponsible at best, hard agenda'd at worst" because she's "steering first, evaluating later." Okay, but... I didn't get that impression from her treatment of Gavial whatsoever. How was it agenda'd? She was literally just calling his stuff NAI. Not calling him mafia, not calling him town, but consistently claiming his behavior is NAI. That's not agenda, that's hardlining a nullread, which... I suppose there are some worlds in which you could consider that agenda, but maintaining a nullread on day 1, despite it being on a polarized player, doesn't feel like agenda to me. Maybe we have different ways of approaching the game, but this line of thinking from c4 strikes me as odd. I guess it's possible he's just tunneled, but.
- Implies in the next post about Gavial that he thinks Gavial is just mafia. He underlines the fact Gavial's partners can treat him in any way they want and that it wouldn't be consequential, and also claims there isn't any cred to be found for this pelt. I think this is a towny approach to Gavial, because it comes from the premise of a lack of TMI. I doubt a wolf wastes their time writing a post that says "anyone can be aligned with Gavial, also there's no cred for bussing him" when Gavial is going to flip town, rendering the entire post useless for agenda purposes. It looks more like a villager who genuinely thinks Gavial is a wolf and doesn't want wolves to get cred for bussing him or taking contrarian/surprising stances regarding him.
- Makes a preflip read that Alison is mafia and Dya is town if Gavial is a villager. The read is made based on a post by Gavial where he doesn't want people to push Alison and wants to push Dya. ...I have no idea why he's following Gavial's reads, since the post is basically sheeping Gavial's reads. He showed a mindset implying Gavial is mafia before, so why is he taking Gavial's reads seriously here? From c4's POV, Gavial's reads should be fake. He had just talked about the idea that people shouldn't consider anyone's treatment of Gavial "unaligning," clearly implying that c4 thinks Gavial is mafia. But here, just two posts later, he reads Gavial's posts and thinks "hmm, if town!Gavial doesn't want to push Alison but wants to push Dya, then Alison must be mafia and Dya must be town." It would make more sense if he said "if Gavial w then Alison w dya v," since that would at least be a logical connection given Gavial's post, but the way it is written, it makes no sense to me. I guess it could be a meme, but c4 doesn't treat it as such in any of his following posts and it's not obvious that it's a joke, so I'm taking it seriously. It's a completely wacky post to write if you think Gavial is mafia, which is the POV c4 had presented just two posts ago. It's indicative of c4's view of Gavial being inconsistent in a really weird way.
- Claims he's not going to push on dya unless Gavial flips green. ...But he had previously said that Gavial V = dya V. So how does this follow whatsoever? Also noting the fact he maintains the townreads on me and Sunbae, but never explains either. His only explanation is that we are "just town" which I find lacking.

Overall, c4 has an inconsistent POV on Gavial that leaves me utterly confused. The highlight of it is the post where he claims Gavial V means Alison W Dya V. He never corrects himself on this, never treats it like a joke, doesn't PHRASE it like a joke, so I assume he meant it. And if he meant it, it renders his progression on Gavial inconsistent. He had treated Gavial like a mafia member before that, but then he wrote a post where he took Gavial's reads seriously. It was when mafia!Gavial would be in antispew, and c4, who was apparently wolfreading Gavial very strongly to the point of suspecting Alison based on her treatment of him, should know this.

I don't know how to read that. It's a really weird mistake to make if you're a wolf, but I also don't see the progression if c4 is a villager. If I remove that post from the equation, c4's treatment of Gavial is ~fine, but that one post destabilizes things a bit.

too tired to parse this rn, but here's his c4 read

[bronana]

c4 are you trying to discern dizzy's alignment or pick a fight with him? it seems like the latter, dizzy's response was reasonable and idk why it "peeved" you so much, you are the one being aggressive calling their posts a bunch of fake poop

Nowhere am I calling his posts fake tf are you saying, I'm asking why everyone's hard clearing him and I'm not satisfied with the answers. I don't see how this wasn't clear.

you called it "random shit" several times which clearly implies fake to me

Those were in conditional statements that assumed Dizzy was a wolf
If Dizzy's a wolf, hopefully we can agree that was, in fact, random shit

that's a meaningless statement, you could say "x is random shit if they're a wolf" about pmuch anything. do you think it's random shit or not? that dizzy's a wolf or not?

[dyachei]

I've stopped for tonight, i stopped getting anything out of my reading