Cindy Kate & Percy Date Night Mafia <3 [ENDGAME]

[Actvscenei]

@hawkataine, do you really believe your ISO of gnome or...?? Lol the only thing from gnome that feels unlike what I know of her, is the sarcasm. I don’t recall gnome ever being this snarky and sarcastic in past games lol. Like, gnome’s got sass! Lol

[Actvscenei]

Dana’s posts still don’t look good to me retrospectively, but I do agree with @hawkataine that Dana wouldn’t start a day phase asking for attention on a scum buddy. Doesn’t mean Hawk is town, but it might mean that Dana is.

[Seanzie]

Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?

No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.

Why did you switch from seeming to think there could be a second healer to then seeing to think there absolutely couldn't be one?

I just explained it in the above.

If I'm going to say that Long Con very likely dies, then I don't see anything in that post as being unnecessary to making that point.

You're either missing my point or dodging it.

1.) You started by claiming healer, and seemingly in your claim you would not at all be surprised to see a second healer claim, but then

2.) Not long afterwards, you seemed to express strong conviction that there couldn't be a second healer in the game.

These things don't jive. Please explain your thoughts, what led you from 1 to 2?

1. Remove anything substantiated by "Seemingly". You're conjecturing here, and I tend to be very specific with my wording and intents.

Besides, if I had any real belief that there was a 2nd healer then I would not have warned Long Con. That simple.

However, I don't know if others have a different vision of the setup. So in order to make my point I have to mention the possibilities that may seem likely from theirs, but aren't from mine.

2. This doesn't conflict with #1. Number 2 is a clarification after all.

I'm not conjecturing, I'm making a logical conclusion based off your words:

@Long Con

Unless there's another 1-shot healer, I want to put you on notice that you may be actually dying from poison.

I don't think there's fake poisons given that I'm 1-shot, though I realize that can also be indicative of having the healing ability split up. I doubt that though because there's, to my knowledge, no way to prevent two healers from accidentally healing the same person on the same day.

Your claim consists more of talking about the possibility of a second healer than it does claiming what you actually did. Maybe you're just being verbose, but your intent to a reasonable audience seems to be to not discredit the fact that there could be another healer. You say that you have to mention possibilities that seem likely from other's perspectives but not from yours... but you don't indicate that is what you are doing at all, so, again, to any reasonable audience, what you are saying now doesn't line up well with what you said then. I may be conjecturing, but surprisingly... pretty much all of mafia consists of conjecturing... unless you're a wolf;)

[MartinGG99]

what led you from 1 to 2?

Basically, as I see it in chronological order:

1) Based on the fact that I'm 1-shot, I consider Alison's poison to be real and heal her. I don't imagine a setup with fake poisons against a 1-shot healer.

Additionally, I wonder that if there's a 2nd healer they are likely 1-shot as well. However, that runs into a brick wall because there's nothing to prevent two healers from healing the same person on the same day. So its as if there's only one town healer. It's redundant. So I believe, based on my own role, there's only one healer.

2) Because I spent my only heal, and the above, I go on to believe that poison victim #2 will die and decide to warn them.

I warn long con with mentions of the above. These mentions must be said because he doesn't know what I know, and to assure him of this reality.

3) Later on, Hawk claims to be healer as well. I don't believe it.

Some people entertain the possibility of town and mafia healer. Some suggest lynching me, to which I counter asserting that they fail to realize they can simply test for Long Con's death and vote outside of Martin/Hawk if they don't believe me and instead believe the healer fake-claim.

Since its obvious that I am the healer, I don't need to test that.

4) Someone is confused. I then make the big clarification post that I believed in a single-healer theory. Off the top of my head, everything I have said and acted today is in accordance with this belief.

N o n e of this conflicts or is TMI-indicative. It's all part of a singular belief that was expressed in parts with my actions and assertions.

[Guillotine]

One possible thought I had, but doesn't quite fit is that Martin was actually a 3p poisoner, and wanted to claim healer as their fakeclaim, knowing that there would be a healer out there.

It doesn't fit. I'm sure I don't have to explain why it does not as you admitted it just does not fit.

Sure, but sometimes things that don't quite fit actually do fit, you just were trying to put them on inside-out. I agree it doesn't quite fit, but that doesn't mean it isn't a possible truth, or a possible near-truth.

Please tell me you are trolling.

Are you telling me that a 3P Poisoner is gonna out himself to bait the healer out with a fake healer claim?

[MartinGG99]

At most you can call what I've said to be poorly worded but that clarification was ****intended**** to make things (my past statements) clearer.

To be accused of TMI simply because what I originally said doesn't seem quite as neat or well-endowed with connecting thoughts as the clarification (of which the clarification is intended for) is frustrating.

[MartinGG99]

You say that you have to mention possibilities that seem likely from other's perspectives but not from yours... but you don't indicate that is what you are doing at all

Uh, how?

Isn't it obvious that is what I'm doing?

Like how about I just say

"Long con you're going to die"

It doesn't have the same character.

[Seanzie]

One possible thought I had, but doesn't quite fit is that Martin was actually a 3p poisoner, and wanted to claim healer as their fakeclaim, knowing that there would be a healer out there.

It doesn't fit. I'm sure I don't have to explain why it does not as you admitted it just does not fit.

Sure, but sometimes things that don't quite fit actually do fit, you just were trying to put them on inside-out. I agree it doesn't quite fit, but that doesn't mean it isn't a possible truth, or a possible near-truth.

Please tell me you are trolling.

Are you telling me that a 3P Poisoner is gonna out himself to bait the healer out with a fake healer claim?

No, I'm telling you that a 3p poisoner with an unknown wincon that made a super duper shady vote last night that could get attention today could be trying to make sure they survive another day by starting off the day with a very believable claim, setting themselves up to win a claim-battle, because maybe they need one more day to fulfil their wincon. Or because of some other unknown possibility that I can't think of. Again, I'm not saying it is like super likely or anything, but I don't see it as out of the realm of possibilities. You think very 1-dimensionally about the game and setups sometimes, but I do not.

[Seanzie]

You say that you have to mention possibilities that seem likely from other's perspectives but not from yours... but you don't indicate that is what you are doing at all

Uh, how?

Isn't it obvious that is what I'm doing?

Like how about I just say

"Long con you're going to die"

It doesn't have the same character.

What do you mean "Uh, how?"? Please, quote yourself point out the words where you indicate that this is what you are doing.

[Seanzie]

You say that you have to mention possibilities that seem likely from other's perspectives but not from yours... but you don't indicate that is what you are doing at all

Uh, how?

Isn't it obvious that is what I'm doing?

Like how about I just say

"Long con you're going to die"

It doesn't have the same character.

If I doubted there was another healer, but wanted to mention the possibility, I'd say something like

"I severely doubt there is another healer, but unless there is one, LC, youz fukked."

[MartinGG99]

You say that you have to mention possibilities that seem likely from other's perspectives but not from yours... but you don't indicate that is what you are doing at all

Uh, how?

Isn't it obvious that is what I'm doing?

Like how about I just say

"Long con you're going to die"

It doesn't have the same character.

What do you mean "Uh, how?"? Please, quote yourself point out the words where you indicate that this is what you are doing.

"Uh, How?" is referring to your statement.

How can you see and substantiate the argument that I wasn't mentioning possibilities from other's perspectives.

That is literally the whole theme of my post right there.

[Seanzie]

Anyways, I think I believe you(@MartinGG99) and am probably just going to drop it, because at this point I'm going to argue with you about semantics, not gameplay (I love to argue), and that isn't good for the thread.

[Guillotine]

One possible thought I had, but doesn't quite fit is that Martin was actually a 3p poisoner, and wanted to claim healer as their fakeclaim, knowing that there would be a healer out there.

It doesn't fit. I'm sure I don't have to explain why it does not as you admitted it just does not fit.

Sure, but sometimes things that don't quite fit actually do fit, you just were trying to put them on inside-out. I agree it doesn't quite fit, but that doesn't mean it isn't a possible truth, or a possible near-truth.

Please tell me you are trolling.

Are you telling me that a 3P Poisoner is gonna out himself to bait the healer out with a fake healer claim?

No, I'm telling you that a 3p poisoner with an unknown wincon that made a super duper shady vote last night that could get attention today could be trying to make sure they survive another day by starting off the day with a very believable claim, setting themselves up to win a claim-battle, because maybe they need one more day to fulfil their wincon. Or because of some other unknown possibility that I can't think of. Again, I'm not saying it is like super likely or anything, but I don't see it as out of the realm of possibilities. You think very 1-dimensionally about the game and setups sometimes, but I do not.

LOL I do not, I apply common sense, Martin is never the 3P here, never, never, not one single tenth of a million chance.

[MartinGG99]

Anyways, I think I believe you(@MartinGG99) and am probably just going to drop it, because at this point I'm going to argue with you about semantics, not gameplay (I love to argue), and that isn't good for the thread.

Well, it was valid.

Just infuriating to deal with, and if anything it will make me more concise and clear with my thoughts in the future.

If I had directly and distinctly clarified thinking there was only 1 healer in the world, and that was me, and I had used my shot, in the first post then this wouldn't have had happened. I just thought the following was implied but it was apparently not.

[MartinGG99]

Huh. Interesting. I discovered a town-tell in of myself.

Maybe I'll be able to fix it one day.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Martin is town. I don’t think I should move my vote. If I should move my vote, why is hawk town? Open question to whomever it may concern

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Point: if hawk flips town does that actually confirm Sloonei as non-mafia (or come close)? His alleged vest would be the last known explanation for a failed kill.

[Seanzie]

Point: if hawk flips town does that actually confirm Sloonei as non-mafia (or come close)? His alleged vest would be the last known explanation for a failed kill.

I think this is a question that is best answered tomorrow if and only if it needs to be answered.

[Seanzie]

Also, while speaking of information that should be shared only at specific times under specific circumstances,

@Long Con, I was thinking, you may at some point before EoD want to share if you gave away a second object, but probably shouldn't share whom you gave it to if you gave a second one away. This will help town mech solve and limit mafia's ability to claim stuff (Oh, I am the reason there wasn't a NK last night, because LC gave me a vest N2, and just didn't mention it! Therefore I must be town!). Up to you though if you also think it is a good idea or not.

[Seanzie]

Helllllooooooooo

[Sloonei]

Hello

[Seanzie]

Hello

I just read EoD1 over again. How do you feel about the Made wagon that popped up?

[Seanzie]

Hello

I just read EoD1 over again. How do you feel about the Made wagon that popped up?

By "over again", I really mean "for the first time". I never actually finished my read of D1 yesterday.

[Sloonei]

Hello

I just read EoD1 over again. How do you feel about the Made wagon that popped up?

We know it contained at least two wolves. I believe it contained at least a third in Hawk. The only way LC is bad is if he gifted me a fake vest and was poisoned by a third party role. I think having three wolves on the wagon is plenty, and if they piled on any more than that then they are playing pretty fast and loose.

I was on it because I thought Made’s vote for nutella looked worse than nutella herself.

[Seanzie]

Hello

I just read EoD1 over again. How do you feel about the Made wagon that popped up?

We know it contained at least two wolves. I believe it contained at least a third in Hawk. The only way LC is bad is if he gifted me a fake vest and was poisoned by a third party role. I think having three wolves on the wagon is plenty, and if they piled on any more than that then they are playing pretty fast and loose.

I was on it because I thought Made’s vote for nutella looked worse than nutella herself.

I think Jay has mentioned the possibility that Made might be scum. What do you think?

[Sloonei]

Hello

I just read EoD1 over again. How do you feel about the Made wagon that popped up?

We know it contained at least two wolves. I believe it contained at least a third in Hawk. The only way LC is bad is if he gifted me a fake vest and was poisoned by a third party role. I think having three wolves on the wagon is plenty, and if they piled on any more than that then they are playing pretty fast and loose.

I was on it because I thought Made’s vote for nutella looked worse than nutella herself.

I think Jay has mentioned the possibility that Made might be scum. What do you think?

Based on the wagons Day 1, I’ll call it unlikely but not impossible. Owner was the distant third wagon. Both owner and nutella were on Made. Hawk cast a conspicuous last minute vote for Made too. If all three wagons are mafia then Made would have to have been deemed the most expendable member of the team.

He would not be the first place I look.

[Seanzie]

Hello

I just read EoD1 over again. How do you feel about the Made wagon that popped up?

We know it contained at least two wolves. I believe it contained at least a third in Hawk. The only way LC is bad is if he gifted me a fake vest and was poisoned by a third party role. I think having three wolves on the wagon is plenty, and if they piled on any more than that then they are playing pretty fast and loose.

I was on it because I thought Made’s vote for nutella looked worse than nutella herself.

I think Jay has mentioned the possibility that Made might be scum. What do you think?

Based on the wagons Day 1, I’ll call it unlikely but not impossible. Owner was the distant third wagon. Both owner and nutella were on Made. Hawk cast a conspicuous last minute vote for Made too. If all three wagons are mafia then Made would have to have been deemed the most expendable member of the team.

He would not be the first place I look.

If there was scum on Nutella, who do you think it would be?

If there was scum on Owner, who do you think it would be?

[Sloonei]

On nutella: sonny. Mac as a long shot.

On Owner: I don’t know. I have not paid attention to Dana or bad bunny, but they are two names I have seen discussed quite a bit.
I think allcrab has a claim in his favor, right?

[Seanzie]

On nutella: sonny. Mac as a long shot.

On Owner: I don’t know. I have not paid attention to Dana or bad bunny, but they are two names I have seen discussed quite a bit.
I think allcrab has a claim in his favor, right?

Allcrab has claimed the same thing as LoMo, with the same target. I am not sure what to make of it. I am also not sure if the claim is AI. Granted, as of right now, both Nutella and Owner have had claims with mafia-specific powers, so I am starting to think that the game had specific roles for mafia and specific roles for town. If this is true, since there wasn't a lot of evidence in the thread at that point to suggest duplicate roles, but now there is strong evidence, I'd say Allcrab's claim looks good, yes. This might also look good for Bunny since Allcrab apparently has a godread on Bunny.

[Long Con]

Also, while speaking of information that should be shared only at specific times under specific circumstances,

@Long Con, I was thinking, you may at some point before EoD want to share if you gave away a second object, but probably shouldn't share whom you gave it to if you gave a second one away. This will help town mech solve and limit mafia's ability to claim stuff (Oh, I am the reason there wasn't a NK last night, because LC gave me a vest N2, and just didn't mention it! Therefore I must be town!). Up to you though if you also think it is a good idea or not.

Yeah, no I only give out vests on odd nights.

[MartinGG99]

Speaking of Allcrab....

If we were to look at d1 wagons with Made/Nut/Owner (Made in Yellow) on Allcrab's near-EoD reads list:

Animal Kingdom
Bunny
Hawk
Tangrowth

Kingdom Outskirts
JJJ
Sonny
Gavial

Plants
Lomo
Nutella

Fungi
Owner
Alison
Made

From what I've read so far

Aside from Hawk this seems fairly anti-cooperation with the mafia team, regardless of whether Made is town or mafia, unless we're thinking significant distancing. At EoD his vote is on Owner too, instead of made (if we presume "Made is disposable mafia theory").

And this is a reads list that doesn't include everyone.

I've been thinking about of it for awhile, since I hadn't really seen such circumstances before, but I think it shines overall better on Allcrab.

[Seanzie]

On nutella: sonny. Mac as a long shot.

On Owner: I don’t know. I have not paid attention to Dana or bad bunny, but they are two names I have seen discussed quite a bit.
I think allcrab has a claim in his favor, right?

Is there a strong reason to townread Guillotine?

[Sloonei]

On nutella: sonny. Mac as a long shot.

On Owner: I don’t know. I have not paid attention to Dana or bad bunny, but they are two names I have seen discussed quite a bit.
I think allcrab has a claim in his favor, right?

Allcrab has claimed the same thing as LoMo, with the same target. I am not sure what to make of it. I am also not sure if the claim is AI. Granted, as of right now, both Nutella and Owner have had claims with mafia-specific powers, so I am starting to think that the game had specific roles for mafia and specific roles for town. If this is true, since there wasn't a lot of evidence in the thread at that point to suggest duplicate roles, but now there is strong evidence, I'd say Allcrab's claim looks good, yes. This might also look good for Bunny since Allcrab apparently has a godread on Bunny.

RE: “town” roles versus “mafia” roles, I was roleblocked last night, apparently by someone other than Gavial.

[Sloonei]

On nutella: sonny. Mac as a long shot.

On Owner: I don’t know. I have not paid attention to Dana or bad bunny, but they are two names I have seen discussed quite a bit.
I think allcrab has a claim in his favor, right?

Is there a strong reason to townread Guillotine?

Yes, but I forget it. May have had something to do with nutella interactions. I have generally liked guillo’s tone and direction. He feels like he’s trying to figure things out in his way.

[MacDougall]

im in hospital again so ez three day pass yeh?

[Sloonei]

What specifically did allcrab and lomo claim?

[Sloonei]

im in hospital again so ez three day pass yeh?

[Seanzie]

On nutella: sonny. Mac as a long shot.

On Owner: I don’t know. I have not paid attention to Dana or bad bunny, but they are two names I have seen discussed quite a bit.
I think allcrab has a claim in his favor, right?

Allcrab has claimed the same thing as LoMo, with the same target. I am not sure what to make of it. I am also not sure if the claim is AI. Granted, as of right now, both Nutella and Owner have had claims with mafia-specific powers, so I am starting to think that the game had specific roles for mafia and specific roles for town. If this is true, since there wasn't a lot of evidence in the thread at that point to suggest duplicate roles, but now there is strong evidence, I'd say Allcrab's claim looks good, yes. This might also look good for Bunny since Allcrab apparently has a godread on Bunny.

RE: “town” roles versus “mafia” roles, I was roleblocked last night, apparently by someone other than Gavial.

Yes, I saw that. I am not sure exactly what to think. You're not the most clear person, so it is possible you were targeted by town, but it is also not inconsistent with having specific roles for town and mafia if you were targeted by mafia. Like... the setup could have included a specific mafia roleblocker and a town roleblocker, similarly to how I kind of believe that there might be a town and mafia healer. I think it is a bit less likely that the setup would include a specific mafia watcher since watcher is kind of an awkward mafia role - not without utility, but you wouldn't think of it as a mafia role.

Other setups I've seen though, have the same set of roles, and they get randed to everyone and alignments are randed independently, and so sometimes mafia ends up with roles that are kind of questionable for mafia to have. This doesn't seem like that though.

[Seanzie]

im in hospital again so ez three day pass yeh?

Hope you're okay. We'll only yeet you if we really feel like it.

[Seanzie]

What specifically did allcrab and lomo claim?

Some sort of nerfed watcher. They both watched JJJ N1.

[MacDougall]

im in hospital again so ez three day pass yeh?

Hope you're okay. We'll only yeet you if we really feel like it.

im just reading my own iso and its pretty awesome you should do that too

[Sloonei]

On nutella: sonny. Mac as a long shot.

On Owner: I don’t know. I have not paid attention to Dana or bad bunny, but they are two names I have seen discussed quite a bit.
I think allcrab has a claim in his favor, right?

Allcrab has claimed the same thing as LoMo, with the same target. I am not sure what to make of it. I am also not sure if the claim is AI. Granted, as of right now, both Nutella and Owner have had claims with mafia-specific powers, so I am starting to think that the game had specific roles for mafia and specific roles for town. If this is true, since there wasn't a lot of evidence in the thread at that point to suggest duplicate roles, but now there is strong evidence, I'd say Allcrab's claim looks good, yes. This might also look good for Bunny since Allcrab apparently has a godread on Bunny.

RE: “town” roles versus “mafia” roles, I was roleblocked last night, apparently by someone other than Gavial.

Yes, I saw that. I am not sure exactly what to think. You're not the most clear person, so it is possible you were targeted by town, but it is also not inconsistent with having specific roles for town and mafia if you were targeted by mafia. Like... the setup could have included a specific mafia roleblocker and a town roleblocker, similarly to how I kind of believe that there might be a town and mafia healer. I think it is a bit less likely that the setup would include a specific mafia watcher since watcher is kind of an awkward mafia role - not without utility, but you wouldn't think of it as a mafia role.

Other setups I've seen though, have the same set of roles, and they get randed to everyone and alignments are randed independently, and so sometimes mafia ends up with roles that are kind of questionable for mafia to have. This doesn't seem like that though.

It is not unheard of here for roles to be duplicated to some degree across alignments, or for roles to appear opposite of the alignment which they would have the most utility for. Mafia trackers/watchers are not super uncommon on the syndicate, i don't think.

This is not an accusation against either of allcrab or lomo. I'm just weighing in on setup speculation in general.

I would be a little surprised if there was a town roleblocker but not a mafia one.

[Seanzie]

On nutella: sonny. Mac as a long shot.

On Owner: I don’t know. I have not paid attention to Dana or bad bunny, but they are two names I have seen discussed quite a bit.
I think allcrab has a claim in his favor, right?

Allcrab has claimed the same thing as LoMo, with the same target. I am not sure what to make of it. I am also not sure if the claim is AI. Granted, as of right now, both Nutella and Owner have had claims with mafia-specific powers, so I am starting to think that the game had specific roles for mafia and specific roles for town. If this is true, since there wasn't a lot of evidence in the thread at that point to suggest duplicate roles, but now there is strong evidence, I'd say Allcrab's claim looks good, yes. This might also look good for Bunny since Allcrab apparently has a godread on Bunny.

RE: “town” roles versus “mafia” roles, I was roleblocked last night, apparently by someone other than Gavial.

Yes, I saw that. I am not sure exactly what to think. You're not the most clear person, so it is possible you were targeted by town, but it is also not inconsistent with having specific roles for town and mafia if you were targeted by mafia. Like... the setup could have included a specific mafia roleblocker and a town roleblocker, similarly to how I kind of believe that there might be a town and mafia healer. I think it is a bit less likely that the setup would include a specific mafia watcher since watcher is kind of an awkward mafia role - not without utility, but you wouldn't think of it as a mafia role.

Other setups I've seen though, have the same set of roles, and they get randed to everyone and alignments are randed independently, and so sometimes mafia ends up with roles that are kind of questionable for mafia to have. This doesn't seem like that though.

It is not unheard of here for roles to be duplicated to some degree across alignments, or for roles to appear opposite of the alignment which they would have the most utility for. Mafia trackers/watchers are not super uncommon on the syndicate, i don't think.

This is not an accusation against either of allcrab or lomo. I'm just weighing in on setup speculation in general.

I would be a little surprised if there was a town roleblocker but not a mafia one.

Mac said he roleblocked you. I wasn't sure if he was joking or not.

I agree that it seems lopsided to give town two roleblockers and scum none.

[Sloonei]

I didn’t see mac claim to have blocked me, but he was probably trolling.

[Guillotine]

Maybe I wanna chop Guillo

You cant chop me, i can cruise the rest of the game unchopped if i wanted to. If you want me gone you have options though.

1) Make me quit (very hard to do)
2) Day vig me
3) Night kill me.

I'll never get yeeted in this game, ever.

[MacDougall]

Maybe I wanna chop Guillo

You cant chop me, i can cruise the rest of the game unchopped if i wanted to. If you want me gone you have options though.

1) Make me quit (very hard to do)
2) Day vig me
3) Night kill me.

I'll never get yeeted in this game, ever.

how come

[Guillotine]

Maybe I wanna chop Guillo

You cant chop me, i can cruise the rest of the game unchopped if i wanted to. If you want me gone you have options though.

1) Make me quit (very hard to do)
2) Day vig me
3) Night kill me.

I'll never get yeeted in this game, ever.

how come

Because im obvious town baby! Suck on that tit.

[Garden Gnome]

@hawkataine, do you really believe your ISO of gnome or...?? Lol the only thing from gnome that feels unlike what I know of her, is the sarcasm. I don’t recall gnome ever being this snarky and sarcastic in past games lol. Like, gnome’s got sass! Lol

It was fun, lol.

[MacDougall]

Maybe I wanna chop Guillo

You cant chop me, i can cruise the rest of the game unchopped if i wanted to. If you want me gone you have options though.

1) Make me quit (very hard to do)
2) Day vig me
3) Night kill me.

I'll never get yeeted in this game, ever.

how come

Because im obvious town baby! Suck on that tit.

mmm guillo lactate

[Actvscenei]

@hawkataine, do you really believe your ISO of gnome or...?? Lol the only thing from gnome that feels unlike what I know of her, is the sarcasm. I don’t recall gnome ever being this snarky and sarcastic in past games lol. Like, gnome’s got sass! Lol

It was fun, lol.

Aside from Hawk, who else do you think is scum?