Cindy Kate & Percy Date Night Mafia <3 [ENDGAME]

[Seanzie]

And it would appear that the Mafia took a direct shot at Sloonei n1. So they in fact probably tried to kill Sloonei and Jay on n1.

I may be Mafia God but they will catch bullets before me most of the time. So you needn't humour gamestate driven paranoia in this particular instance imo.

But if you were to insist said paranoia would make sense to be towards not me anyway on account of the fact that I am LACK CLAIRE.

So you seem to think hawk was not carrying the kill then?

I'd like to reiterate this. Why are you so convinced that Sloonei's vest is what stopped the kill?

Sloonei said he had a reason to think so. I am trusting the champ.

Sloonei said he still had the vest when he first started talking about it. When did he say he had a reason to think so? This seems pretty contradictory.

Contradictory to what?

Sloonei originally seemed to think he definitely wasn't shot, but then apparently thought he was. That is contradictory.

When did Sloonei say that he had a reason to think so? I don't remember this.

[MacDougall]

And it would appear that the Mafia took a direct shot at Sloonei n1. So they in fact probably tried to kill Sloonei and Jay on n1.

I may be Mafia God but they will catch bullets before me most of the time. So you needn't humour gamestate driven paranoia in this particular instance imo.

But if you were to insist said paranoia would make sense to be towards not me anyway on account of the fact that I am LACK CLAIRE.

So you seem to think hawk was not carrying the kill then?

I'd like to reiterate this. Why are you so convinced that Sloonei's vest is what stopped the kill?

Sloonei said he had a reason to think so. I am trusting the champ.

Sloonei said he still had the vest when he first started talking about it. When did he say he had a reason to think so? This seems pretty contradictory.

Contradictory to what?

Sloonei originally seemed to think he definitely wasn't shot, but then apparently thought he was. That is contradictory.

When did Sloonei say that he had a reason to think so? I don't remember this.

I misremembered he just speculated that he might have been. I quoted it in my last post.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Question to ponder:

If Sloonei and I were both targeted with [pseudo-]killing abilities on Night 1 despite being on the Day 1 counterwagon, what would that suggest about things?

[Seanzie]

Question to ponder:

If Sloonei and I were both targeted with [pseudo-]killing abilities on Night 1 despite being on the Day 1 counterwagon, what would that suggest about things?

Could suggest that there is a deepwolf on the day 1 wagon...

[MacDougall]

Question to ponder:

If Sloonei and I were both targeted with [pseudo-]killing abilities on Night 1 despite being on the Day 1 counterwagon, what would that suggest about things?

That someone who knows you guys are on the mafia team.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Perhaps @ both. Easy mode answer would be mafia Made.

[MacDougall]

Perhaps @ both. Easy mode answer would be mafia Made.

oh yeh

[Seanzie]

Perhaps @ both. Easy mode answer would be mafia Made.

I don't see how Made being mafia would matter there. Like, you and Sloonei didn't get threadcred for voting Made regardless of if he is mafia or not. Can you explain how Mafia!Made is explanatory there?

[Sloonei]

And it would appear that the Mafia took a direct shot at Sloonei n1. So they in fact probably tried to kill Sloonei and Jay on n1.

I may be Mafia God but they will catch bullets before me most of the time. So you needn't humour gamestate driven paranoia in this particular instance imo.

But if you were to insist said paranoia would make sense to be towards not me anyway on account of the fact that I am LACK CLAIRE.

So you seem to think hawk was not carrying the kill then?

I'd like to reiterate this. Why are you so convinced that Sloonei's vest is what stopped the kill?

Sloonei said he had a reason to think so. I am trusting the champ.

I said I believe it’s possible, not that I have reason to believe.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Perhaps @ both. Easy mode answer would be mafia Made.

I don't see how Made being mafia would matter there. Like, you and Sloonei didn't get threadcred for voting Made regardless of if he is mafia or not. Can you explain how Mafia!Made is explanatory there?

Thread cred means little to Sloonei and I. If Made is mafia we are just straight up threats. We’d have orchestrated w/w/w wagons Day 1.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also if it can be verified that Sloonei received a vest and was a kill target, then Long Con is town.

[Seanzie]

Also if it can be verified that Sloonei received a vest and was a kill target, then Long Con is town.

I think this is kind of moot since it seems very likely LC will be dead before we could verify such things.

[Long Con]

Also if it can be verified that Sloonei received a vest and was a kill target, then Long Con is town.

How are you still entertaining the possibility of "if"??

[Long Con]

If Sloonei had a vest n1 then Hawk being blocked means fuck all ergo this wagon needs competition.

@MacDougall did you read hawkataine as town before this day phase began, and if so why?

[Sloonei]

And it would appear that the Mafia took a direct shot at Sloonei n1. So they in fact probably tried to kill Sloonei and Jay on n1.

I may be Mafia God but they will catch bullets before me most of the time. So you needn't humour gamestate driven paranoia in this particular instance imo.

But if you were to insist said paranoia would make sense to be towards not me anyway on account of the fact that I am LACK CLAIRE.

So you seem to think hawk was not carrying the kill then?

I'd like to reiterate this. Why are you so convinced that Sloonei's vest is what stopped the kill?

Sloonei said he had a reason to think so. I am trusting the champ.

I said I believe it’s possible, not that I have reason to believe.

To clarify since I have a moment: I thought it was impossible earlier. Then I learned that was not the case. There is no direct evidence that I was targeted for the Night 1 kill.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also if it can be verified that Sloonei received a vest and was a kill target, then Long Con is town.

How are you still entertaining the possibility of "if"??

I have no idea who was a kill target or what happened. Everything is still hypothetical.

[Seanzie]

@JaggedJimmyJay I think earlier I asked you about Martin seemingly knowing there were two healers. What do you think of that? Sorry if you responded already, but I am quite curious to hear if you've thought about this.

[Seanzie]

Also like... @Allcrab @lost monkey, do either of you have results worth sharing? Don't worry about it if not, but I kind of expected to hear from one/both of you by now since we're more than 24 hours in.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JaggedJimmyJay I think earlier I asked you about Martin seemingly knowing there were two healers. What do you think of that? Sorry if you responded already, but I am quite curious to hear if you've thought about this.

I’d have to go look at the post for context. Not in a great position to do so at the moment.

[Seanzie]

@Long Con

Unless there's another 1-shot healer, I want to put you on notice that you may be actually dying from poison.

I don't think there's fake poisons given that I'm 1-shot, though I realize that can also be indicative of having the healing ability split up. I doubt that though because there's, to my knowledge, no way to prevent two healers from accidentally healing the same person on the same day.

@JaggedJimmyJay does this help?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also dunno if duplicate roles had been discussed at that point.

[MacDougall]

If Sloonei had a vest n1 then Hawk being blocked means fuck all ergo this wagon needs competition.

@MacDougall did you read hawkataine as town before this day phase began, and if so why?

I can't remember tbh.

[Long Con]

Also if it can be verified that Sloonei received a vest and was a kill target, then Long Con is town.

How are you still entertaining the possibility of "if"??

I have no idea who was a kill target or what happened. Everything is still hypothetical.

You are pretending there's a possibility that I'm not town in this situation, and it's quite the scummy look, because town JJJ would do some actual light analysis of my posts today and understand the truth.

[MacDougall]

Maybe I wanna chop Guillo

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also if it can be verified that Sloonei received a vest and was a kill target, then Long Con is town.

How are you still entertaining the possibility of "if"??

I have no idea who was a kill target or what happened. Everything is still hypothetical.

You are pretending there's a possibility that I'm not town in this situation, and it's quite the scummy look, because town JJJ would do some actual light analysis of my posts today and understand the truth.

Town JJJ is riding a goddamn bus through San Francisco trying to contribute to a moving discussion with 4% phone battery.

Long Con can take it or leave it. “Analysis” isn’t happening right now

[Seanzie]

Also dunno if duplicate roles had been discussed at that point.

I threw out the idea yesterday as more of a tinfoil, but there was a lot more discussion that happened AFTER the double-healer claim.

Martin didn't really address it much, but he did have this to say, which is kind of contradictory to what he was saying in the last post, since he all the sudden is taking a "there is DEFINITELY only one healer" vibe.

Spoiler: show

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME sup with Martin

......Are people going to ignore the fact that Hawk is claiming 2-shot healer and the easiest way to test this is to see if Long Con dies or not?

I bet my slot that Long Con dies. I strongly believe my 1-shot capability implies there's no fake poisons. And since the only other Healer claim is Hawk at this point, I think that fact is even more likely. @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, If you somehow believe Hawk (or just simply think I'm not town) then the correct action here is to delete me a day later.

Also

[VOTE: Hawkatine] aubergine

If you want us to verify Hawk's claim, why are you voting her?

I never said that *I* wanted that.

I said for other people's perspectives, that's the correct action.

Me? I think the truth is preety obvious.

To be fair I don't entirely understand what's going on here.

I'll clarify: I don't think there's two healers, much less with different shot amounts.

If the poisoner is 3P, and there's two healers (with a collective 3 shots) for some god-forsaken-reason, then I have no clue why the 3P is granted no meaningful extra-mechanical effect or advantage (towards their ends as a result of themselves) on the game until EoD3. Or, if the healers are town and mafia aligned; and that the mafia healer only heals mafia (either intentionally or per role limitation), then the theoretical 3P Poisoner in a different hypothetical scenario (where both healers had not died before using their abilities) could be delayed up to EoD4.

This could be delayed even more if the poisoner and mafia night-kill happen to coincide.

Which, when considering the above for a game of this size with my limited experience, seems absurd and intends to make the 3P Poisoner a glorified survivor. They could go almost (if not the entirety of) the whole game without having any sort of mechanical effect, and they could just lose the game if they got off on simply the wrong foot. I'm inclined to think the poisoner is Mafia, and they have limited shots just as a 1-shot healer does. That being probably Hawk given their claim.

There's only one healer, and for anyone who doubts me they can test who the real healer is by seeing Long Con die. Me? I don't have to test that. I know who the healer is, and its not Hawk.

I don't know, call me crazy, but the more I look into this bad feeling I've been having, the more I am worried about the current gamestate. Again, I don't think we're doing BAD, I just... don't know if things are quite as easy as a lot of people are thinking they are right now.

[Seanzie]

Also if it can be verified that Sloonei received a vest and was a kill target, then Long Con is town.

How are you still entertaining the possibility of "if"??

I have no idea who was a kill target or what happened. Everything is still hypothetical.

You are pretending there's a possibility that I'm not town in this situation, and it's quite the scummy look, because town JJJ would do some actual light analysis of my posts today and understand the truth.

Town JJJ is riding a goddamn bus through San Francisco trying to contribute to a moving discussion with 4% phone battery.

Long Con can take it or leave it. “Analysis” isn’t happening right now

Lol, I appreciate your dedication to this game.

[Long Con]

[Seanzie]

@hawkataine can I see your current interaction matrix?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

While I appreciate hawk’s efforts to make her mark, I do note that a good portion of that today has related to third party speculation.

Just like Owner in the same position. Ironically it’s mafia legacy that could benefit town (and mafia) if both need to handle a hostile indy. It doesn’t have to be that. I still feel like hawk is the right vote anyway. I’ll continue to be listening.

[Guillotine]

The mafia paired me with Gavial because they knew almost anyone else will be reasonable and guarantee one kill. Only a Gavial or a Guillotine is the archetype needed to maximize cupid threat.

They still failed because they underestimated both of us. Even if Gavial is the unstoppable force of chaos, I am the immovable object of persuasion. And Gavial isn’t dumb.

They should have targeted me and Guillo lol

This comment is fair lol

[Seanzie]

I am like... oddly saddened by the lack of participation in this game from the MafC folks. I get that a lot of them are in weird time zones, and also that we don't run these big games (I remember I was daunted by an 17 person game we played on there), and being on a new forum is weird, but like... I was really looking forward to the crossover game, and now it feels more like a syndicate game with a few MafC people that pop in occasionally.

[MartinGG99]

Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?

No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.

[Seanzie]

Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?

No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.

Why did you switch from seeming to think there could be a second healer to then seeing to think there absolutely couldn't be one?

[Actvscenei]

Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?

No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.

Why did you switch from seeming to think there could be a second healer to then seeing to think there absolutely couldn't be one?

How would this be a scum mindset to think there were two healers and then switch to thinking there was only one?

[MartinGG99]

which is kind of contradictory to what he was saying in the last post

It is not.

I was addressing those points in accordance to my beliefs in the game, and to substantiate the point that Long Con is going to die from my point of view.

If I had knowledge that there were two healers (presuming there is two healers) then that message would not have existed; I could not have known whether the other healer used their shot(s) or not.

[Guillotine]

I am like... oddly saddened by the lack of participation in this game from the MafC folks. I get that a lot of them are in weird time zones, and also that we don't run these big games (I remember I was daunted by an 17 person game we played on there), and being on a new forum is weird, but like... I was really looking forward to the crossover game, and now it feels more like a syndicate game with a few MafC people that pop in occasionally.

Yah.. it's the reason I joined, I only play bastard games but the idea of a cross over with great talent from both sites was very appealing.

[Actvscenei]

@hawkataine, why did you choose the Dana quotes you chose to ISO? Why didn’t you address her other posts including her entrances and and reads lists? Why didn’t you look at her posts in response to my questions? I spent one and a half day phases pretty much set on Dana lol. I feel like that would have been a part to look at when going through her ISO, but you didn’t. Why?

[MartinGG99]

Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?

No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.

Why did you switch from seeming to think there could be a second healer to then seeing to think there absolutely couldn't be one?

I just explained it in the above.

If I'm going to say that Long Con very likely dies, then I don't see anything in that post as being unnecessary to making that point.

[Actvscenei]

I am like... oddly saddened by the lack of participation in this game from the MafC folks. I get that a lot of them are in weird time zones, and also that we don't run these big games (I remember I was daunted by an 17 person game we played on there), and being on a new forum is weird, but like... I was really looking forward to the crossover game, and now it feels more like a syndicate game with a few MafC people that pop in occasionally.

I feel like I’m doing a pretty good job at keeping up with a large game on a new site especially considering I haven’t played a large game in actual years. So like I’m proud of me lol.

[Seanzie]

Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?

No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.

Why did you switch from seeming to think there could be a second healer to then seeing to think there absolutely couldn't be one?

How would this be a scum mindset to think there were two healers and then switch to thinking there was only one?

It is possible that Martin knew there was another healer out there for any number of reasons, but then once realizing it was Hawk, wanted Hawk dead for some reason.

One possible thought I had, but doesn't quite fit is that Martin was actually a 3p poisoner, and wanted to claim healer as their fakeclaim, knowing that there would be a healer out there.

Another thought I've been considering that weighs more heavily on my mind is that Martin could be mafia healer, and deduced that there should be a town healer as well, possibly because Martin may not have targeted Alison, or because Martin just guessed there would be one of each alignment since in this case, the poisoner really should be 3p. zin this case, Martin doubles down on potentially Town!Hawk to secure a much needed misyeet.

I'm not convinced of these things by any means, but it is worth exploring while Martin is here.

[Seanzie]

I am like... oddly saddened by the lack of participation in this game from the MafC folks. I get that a lot of them are in weird time zones, and also that we don't run these big games (I remember I was daunted by an 17 person game we played on there), and being on a new forum is weird, but like... I was really looking forward to the crossover game, and now it feels more like a syndicate game with a few MafC people that pop in occasionally.

I feel like I’m doing a pretty good job at keeping up with a large game on a new site especially considering I haven’t played a large game in actual years. So like I’m proud of me lol.

Haha, yes, you are doing well. I was looking at post counts, and I am worried that you and I might be the only MafC'ers to end up higher than Nutella by the end of the game, and that only if you keep steady with your pace right now. and we don't CFD you:P

[Guillotine]

One possible thought I had, but doesn't quite fit is that Martin was actually a 3p poisoner, and wanted to claim healer as their fakeclaim, knowing that there would be a healer out there.

It doesn't fit. I'm sure I don't have to explain why it does not as you admitted it just does not fit.

[Actvscenei]

Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?

No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.

Why did you switch from seeming to think there could be a second healer to then seeing to think there absolutely couldn't be one?

How would this be a scum mindset to think there were two healers and then switch to thinking there was only one?

It is possible that Martin knew there was another healer out there for any number of reasons, but then once realizing it was Hawk, wanted Hawk dead for some reason.

One possible thought I had, but doesn't quite fit is that Martin was actually a 3p poisoner, and wanted to claim healer as their fakeclaim, knowing that there would be a healer out there.

Another thought I've been considering that weighs more heavily on my mind is that Martin could be mafia healer, and deduced that there should be a town healer as well, possibly because Martin may not have targeted Alison, or because Martin just guessed there would be one of each alignment since in this case, the poisoner really should be 3p. zin this case, Martin doubles down on potentially Town!Hawk to secure a much needed misyeet.

I'm not convinced of these things by any means, but it is worth exploring while Martin is here.

In making that claim though as a fake claim, he pretty much guarantees himself a death if Hawk (or whoever it would have been claiming) flips town. At that point, all eyes would go to the other claim regardless because that’s just the motion of the ocean in this game lol. Is it worth it then? (And tbc, I’m not necessarily disagreeing, just trying to flesh this out).

[Seanzie]

Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?

No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.

Why did you switch from seeming to think there could be a second healer to then seeing to think there absolutely couldn't be one?

I just explained it in the above.

If I'm going to say that Long Con very likely dies, then I don't see anything in that post as being unnecessary to making that point.

You're either missing my point or dodging it.

1.) You started by claiming healer, and seemingly in your claim you would not at all be surprised to see a second healer claim, but then

2.) Not long afterwards, you seemed to express strong conviction that there couldn't be a second healer in the game.

These things don't jive. Please explain your thoughts, what led you from 1 to 2?

[Actvscenei]

I am like... oddly saddened by the lack of participation in this game from the MafC folks. I get that a lot of them are in weird time zones, and also that we don't run these big games (I remember I was daunted by an 17 person game we played on there), and being on a new forum is weird, but like... I was really looking forward to the crossover game, and now it feels more like a syndicate game with a few MafC people that pop in occasionally.

I feel like I’m doing a pretty good job at keeping up with a large game on a new site especially considering I haven’t played a large game in actual years. So like I’m proud of me lol.

Haha, yes, you are doing well. I was looking at post counts, and I am worried that you and I might be the only MafC'ers to end up higher than Nutella by the end of the game, and that only if you keep steady with your pace right now. and we don't CFD you:P

I think Guillotine signed up as MafC lol. So he counts haha

[Seanzie]

One possible thought I had, but doesn't quite fit is that Martin was actually a 3p poisoner, and wanted to claim healer as their fakeclaim, knowing that there would be a healer out there.

It doesn't fit. I'm sure I don't have to explain why it does not as you admitted it just does not fit.

Sure, but sometimes things that don't quite fit actually do fit, you just were trying to put them on inside-out. I agree it doesn't quite fit, but that doesn't mean it isn't a possible truth, or a possible near-truth.

[Seanzie]

I'm happy to engage more with Actv and Guillo about this, but I'd prefer to wait to hear from Martin first. @MartinGG99?

[MartinGG99]

Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?

No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.

Why did you switch from seeming to think there could be a second healer to then seeing to think there absolutely couldn't be one?

I just explained it in the above.

If I'm going to say that Long Con very likely dies, then I don't see anything in that post as being unnecessary to making that point.

You're either missing my point or dodging it.

1.) You started by claiming healer, and seemingly in your claim you would not at all be surprised to see a second healer claim, but then

2.) Not long afterwards, you seemed to express strong conviction that there couldn't be a second healer in the game.

These things don't jive. Please explain your thoughts, what led you from 1 to 2?

1. Remove anything substantiated by "Seemingly". You're conjecturing here, and I tend to be very specific with my wording and intents.

Besides, if I had any real belief that there was a 2nd healer then I would not have warned Long Con. That simple.

However, I don't know if others have a different vision of the setup. So in order to make my point I have to mention the possibilities that may seem likely from theirs, but aren't from mine.

2. This doesn't conflict with #1. Number 2 is a clarification after all.