Cindy Kate & Percy Date Night Mafia <3 [ENDGAME]

[Gavial]

If another wagon grows and you haven’t claimed your target and result I will hard claim and expose you!

@hawkataine

you won't you giant baby

Yeah I think Hawk is chicken!

[MacDougall]

If another wagon grows and you haven’t claimed your target and result I will hard claim and expose you!

@hawkataine

you won't you giant baby

Yeah I think Hawk is chicken!

You are fake news.

[Allcrab]

Still don't think hawk is a wolf tbh I think they've tried to be more fair in their assertations than they normally would be when they do rand wolf.

Does the suspicion on them go past not voting nutella or is there more I don't know?

[hawkataine]

If another wagon grows and you haven’t claimed your target and result I will hard claim and expose you!

@hawkataine

you won't you giant baby

Yeah I think Hawk is chicken!

[Sloonei]

guess I'll go make this chart better in a quest for stars from Mac
given that nobody seems to actually want to ask me anything lol

You did not seem particularly invested in yesterday's outcome. You voted for Made after catching up near the deadline, but you did so with an attitude that amounted to a shrug. Do you object to this characterization of your End of Day posture? Why did you prefer Made over nutella?

I wanted flips of some kind, I didn't specifically want made dead but I did want to know if that was a wagon that had potential to grow compared to owner who had seemed static, as I was pretty suspicious of how small the owner wagon was. Also some people who seemed to think they could read nutella started expressing doubts quite close to day end so that threw me off a bit. I'm a chaotic EoD voter by nature and very prone to short-term influence by general thread direction, so I will often intentionally store up town reads on myself during the day and tank them at day end for data xD

I had suspicion of nutella during the day, tbh possibly my strongest suspicion which is not saying much because I was mainly making town reads. The reason I didn't ever vote there is by the time I read the thread properly on Sunday she already had a 6-or-7 person wagon or something and I didn't think it was necessary to put her further in the lead, again for wagonomics reasons. If the wagon had started to deflate I probably would have voted there but I appreciate that's utterly meaningless to say now xD

TLDR I didn't particularly want made dead. If I was actually trying to get the wagon off nutella and onto him I probably would have either tried to defend nutella a bit or tried to shade made a bit, instead of laying a naked vote.

Also as an aside I assume Gavial's red check is a joke because it was like the fourth one in a row and it's also wrong but uh if people are voting me just based on that then make yourselves known so I can be annoyed at you ty

Were you aware of the deadline when you voted?

[hawkataine]

guess I'll go make this chart better in a quest for stars from Mac
given that nobody seems to actually want to ask me anything lol

You did not seem particularly invested in yesterday's outcome. You voted for Made after catching up near the deadline, but you did so with an attitude that amounted to a shrug. Do you object to this characterization of your End of Day posture? Why did you prefer Made over nutella?

I wanted flips of some kind, I didn't specifically want made dead but I did want to know if that was a wagon that had potential to grow compared to owner who had seemed static, as I was pretty suspicious of how small the owner wagon was. Also some people who seemed to think they could read nutella started expressing doubts quite close to day end so that threw me off a bit. I'm a chaotic EoD voter by nature and very prone to short-term influence by general thread direction, so I will often intentionally store up town reads on myself during the day and tank them at day end for data xD

I had suspicion of nutella during the day, tbh possibly my strongest suspicion which is not saying much because I was mainly making town reads. The reason I didn't ever vote there is by the time I read the thread properly on Sunday she already had a 6-or-7 person wagon or something and I didn't think it was necessary to put her further in the lead, again for wagonomics reasons. If the wagon had started to deflate I probably would have voted there but I appreciate that's utterly meaningless to say now xD

TLDR I didn't particularly want made dead. If I was actually trying to get the wagon off nutella and onto him I probably would have either tried to defend nutella a bit or tried to shade made a bit, instead of laying a naked vote.

Also as an aside I assume Gavial's red check is a joke because it was like the fourth one in a row and it's also wrong but uh if people are voting me just based on that then make yourselves known so I can be annoyed at you ty

Were you aware of the deadline when you voted?

I was, but I was expecting to be able to stay on top of the thread as it moved which uh really didn't happen

[MacDougall]

Still don't think hawk is a wolf tbh I think they've tried to be more fair in their assertations than they normally would be when they do rand wolf.

Does the suspicion on them go past not voting nutella or is there more I don't know?

I just found them scummy yesterday but if you say meta then whatever.

[Gavial]

If another wagon grows and you haven’t claimed your target and result I will hard claim and expose you!

@hawkataine

you won't you giant baby

Yeah I think Hawk is chicken!

At least answer me this.
Did you visit anyone at all last night?

[hawkataine]

If another wagon grows and you haven’t claimed your target and result I will hard claim and expose you!

@hawkataine

you won't you giant baby

Yeah I think Hawk is chicken!

At least answer me this.
Did you visit anyone at all last night?

I did not.

[Gavial]

Looking forward to our date tonight @JaggedJimmyJay
Can’t wait as we laugh at scum and possibly get that clean sweep!

[Gavial]

If another wagon grows and you haven’t claimed your target and result I will hard claim and expose you!

@hawkataine

you won't you giant baby

Yeah I think Hawk is chicken!

At least answer me this.
Did you visit anyone at all last night?

I did not.

........
Well Shit.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Looking forward to our date tonight @JaggedJimmyJay
Can’t wait as we laugh at scum and possibly get that clean sweep!

[Gavial]

Still think Hawk is scum but my red ain’t that red anymore.

[Alison]

lol

[Kito]

are we supposed to know what the date mechanic is or nah

[Kito]

If another wagon grows and you haven’t claimed your target and result I will hard claim and expose you!

@hawkataine

you won't you giant baby

Yeah I think Hawk is chicken!

At least answer me this.
Did you visit anyone at all last night?

I did not.

........
Well Shit.

do you normally take things your scum reads say at face value?

[Dana]

are we supposed to know what the date mechanic is or nah

yeah im also confused by this

[Sloonei]

are we supposed to know what the date mechanic is or nah

yeah im also confused by this

@JaggedJimmyJay @Gavial are we able to illuminate us without oversharing?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

For the moment, no clue

[Dana]

@Dana

Actvscenei - suspected me which makes me instinctively want to suspect her but reading her ISO I'm not sure I can rly bring myself to do it. very slight townlean

What posts did you read to not want to suspect her and townlean her?

it feels to me like she was trying to be productive by asking questions and getting clarification for things. if you look at her ISO most of her middle day posts are lots and lots of questions, and I also like getting answers for things so I felt like that wasn’t bad. unsure if I still feel the same though, I’m gonna read her again

Alison - pushing actv so confidently as an "outed wolf" was a lil sus, but she backed off that after the fake claim (also maybe a little sis but a good explanation?). I feel like I just want to sheep her analytical brain reads but that worries me too in case I am putting too much trust. but still generally a minor townlean

If you are unsure about Alison why did you end up townleaning her anyway?

Also, do you have a habit of scum reading confident players?

because I trust her a little bit? idk if I have a habit of scum reading them, mostly of just wanting to trust them and then second guessing myself. once, I used a strategy of voting for my top town read bc I know I can get my reads all backwards and it worked so.. I try to keep that in the back of my mind

Belzy - I liked her couple posts earlier, they felt very substantial. it seemed to me like she was questioning things, bringing up concerns, and trying to move things along. generally helpful vibes

Sorry but this is also too vague, what couples of posts were substantial to you? What is in your opinion a substantial post and how does that help you?
What about her later posts?

I warned that the whole list would be pretty vague.. Her back and forth with JJJ and with you towards the beginning of her ISO gave me the sense that she was really trying to get context and figure things out. substantial to me is actually saying things, even if its just vibes and feelings, or at least trying to work things along and make any type of progress with solving

Guillotine - very unsure how I feel about him. im not sure how well I can articulate it but I am getting some vibes and im not sure how townie they are. I sensed some frustration earlier (but wasn't following super closely) which isn't really AI, i guess. but I was also confused about him asking not to be townread, unsure if that was a joke or not? idk..

Hmmmm? So you recognize i'm a townie but you are unsure of how much? What is the logic here, that im scum for asking to not be widely townread? Do you think mafia would do that?
Do you think mafia would not rejoice on getting townread and keep it like their most treasured belonging and influence town to sheep their reads, leading them to their doom?

Obvious townies get nightkilled by scum first so, i was asking to not be obvious town read. You get it now? (It was part a joke part a reaction test).

sure, mafia could ask to not be widely townread if that's something town would do and they are trying to act like they are town, but wifom I guess. I get it but it still feels strange to me, idk. maybe we just have different styles because when I am townread I am just kinda like.. "yeah. you're right. cool, good stuff"

I think mostly what threw me off about it was that you asked to not be widely townread but then seemed to get a little frustrated when you weren’t being townread later. Ive been feeling a tiny bit better about you recently, though

hawkataine - I like her posts a good amount. im here for the tone and the casualness yet still trying to clear things up, ask questions, etc. good vibes all around, so gonna give her town

Kito - first impression is pretty good vibe and tone in posts. v slight town read

Again very vague, i need to see you are not manufacturing your reads here. What posts you identified as town indicative from them?

hawk posts I initially liked: #930 | #932 | #989
though upon review im not sure there’s quite as much there as i previously thought. I feel like maybe we have similar writing styles too which might be making me a lil bit biased.. hmm. i do also like some of her later posts too though from after my reads list, like her ISO of Nutella here which I think looks kinda good for her given nutellas flip

kito posts I initially liked: #1254 | #1268 | #1274
I feel like he’s just generally kinda chill but still portrays a lil bit of confidence in his reads. I dont feel super strongly abt him or anything but enough to think he’s alright

MacDougall - I am also getting slightly different vibes from him vs the last games I've played where he was town. but idk if that means much bc I get the sense that he really just does his own thing and doesn't seem to care very much how it makes him come across. which is fine but def makes it very hard to really do anything with being able to read him.

So in your opinion, the town!Mac from other games is not present here correct? And somehow you end up null reading him anyway, what?

i mean I would say less of a null and more of a confused. like to me null feels like there’s nothing there to work with, and in this case I feel like there is something there but I just don’t know what to do with it. I do feel a different vibe from him but what im saying is im not sure how much weight that holds in regards to reading him. the last game I played with him before these past two where he was town, was a few years back and he outed his whole entire mafia team and still won anyway. so I kinda just feel like I need to leave the Mac-reading to those more experienced with him

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - I feel like he is doing some pretty alright hunting in his own way. I kind of put in him the same boat as mac in my mind where he kinda just does his own thing and everyone else is just kinda like... but im gonna say he's mostly okay for now

How do you null read mac but not this guy? Mac and Nook are players that are in their own world. Different worlds though. It takes several games to understand them.

i put him in the same "confused about" pile as Mac

nutella - im very tempted to sheep the ppl who know her better but I feel like there isn't really a consensus on her there so... v confused. Mac seemed to go back and forth a lil bit on her but is currently voting her so maybe the consensus is wolf. idk I am very tired and this is taking too many brain cells

Last time i checked Nutella had 6 votes on her out of 24 people, at what point do you determine there is a consensus on someone on day 1?
Do you scum read players who play with their votes?

I didnt mean thread consensus, I meant consensus from the people that could read her well. ppl can play with their votes, thats fine I guess especially on D1, but I appreciate it when they explain their moves too

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I scumread Nanook immediately after coming into the thread, just to see JJJ townread him right afterwards. Not sure what to make of it. Nook explained why he wasn't explaining reads, which is a very not like the town!Nook I usually see. Usually he just pretends to be ignorant of the fact that the answers he is giving to questions about his is flippant. I'm on Page 11, and y'all need to stop posting so much so I can read D1 while still keeping up with the current day.

This is a wild read

[Gavial]

I scumread Nanook immediately after coming into the thread, just to see JJJ townread him right afterwards. Not sure what to make of it. Nook explained why he wasn't explaining reads, which is a very not like the town!Nook I usually see. Usually he just pretends to be ignorant of the fact that the answers he is giving to questions about his is flippant. I'm on Page 11, and y'all need to stop posting so much so I can read D1 while still keeping up with the current day.

This is a wild read

I could ship it

[Garden Gnome]

Omg no death also a scum yeet!!!!! :O

Top notch trolling by nutella.

Also what is going on.

That is truly as good as it gets!

[Actvscenei]

I don’t mean to drive down this tunnel...but I really think Dana is scum, y’all. I do not like the question about Nutella’s flip (feels like a forced derp), and I do not like this reiteration of the reads list. I think I’m going to trust my D1 initial instinct right now because D2 hasn’t changed my mind yet. Her reads are trying too hard. She isn’t really scum hunting, I really believe she is spending more time on her appearance than finding scum. Call me crazy, but like...my vote is going back there haha.

[Actvscenei]

[VOTE: Dana] aubergine

[Seanzie]

I scumread Nanook immediately after coming into the thread, just to see JJJ townread him right afterwards. Not sure what to make of it. Nook explained why he wasn't explaining reads, which is a very not like the town!Nook I usually see. Usually he just pretends to be ignorant of the fact that the answers he is giving to questions about his is flippant. I'm on Page 11, and y'all need to stop posting so much so I can read D1 while still keeping up with the current day.

This is a wild read

Have you ever bothered to explain your flippant answers in any other games? Usually you just do it, and then someone gets mad and yells at you, then you pretend like you did nothing wrong and say that anyone can play however they want (which is true, but I think you often know you're being overly flippant).

Anyways, I'm up to page 17 now, and I read something where on the surface it looked like you backtracked on something just to get Gavial off your back, but I don't think you would do that as a wolf, so it actually made me think you might be town. Only 30 something more pages!

I'mma stop reading for a bit, but Sonny looks good thus far.

[Alison]

Act seems alright.

[Gavial]

I don’t mean to drive down this tunnel...but I really think Dana is scum, y’all. I do not like the question about Nutella’s flip (feels like a forced derp), and I do not like this reiteration of the reads list. I think I’m going to trust my D1 initial instinct right now because D2 hasn’t changed my mind yet. Her reads are trying too hard. She isn’t really scum hunting, I really believe she is spending more time on her appearance than finding scum. Call me crazy, but like...my vote is going back there haha.

What’s your read on Hawk

[Alison]

Has Garden Gnome done anything clearworthy?

[Gavial]

Also my red check is still somewhat valid but it’s also no longer “caught scum” Material since Hawk claimed the correct action of no visits but let me ask them this.
@hawkataine
Did you get no result as well?

[Dana]

I don’t mean to drive down this tunnel...but I really think Dana is scum, y’all. I do not like the question about Nutella’s flip (feels like a forced derp), and I do not like this reiteration of the reads list. I think I’m going to trust my D1 initial instinct right now because D2 hasn’t changed my mind yet. Her reads are trying too hard. She isn’t really scum hunting, I really believe she is spending more time on her appearance than finding scum. Call me crazy, but like...my vote is going back there haha.

I was asked to answer these questions...?

[Gavial]

Has Garden Gnome done anything clearworthy?

Nope.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

formatting??? never did this D1 lmao

I love you and your silent voting so, so much

[Actvscenei]

I don’t mean to drive down this tunnel...but I really think Dana is scum, y’all. I do not like the question about Nutella’s flip (feels like a forced derp), and I do not like this reiteration of the reads list. I think I’m going to trust my D1 initial instinct right now because D2 hasn’t changed my mind yet. Her reads are trying too hard. She isn’t really scum hunting, I really believe she is spending more time on her appearance than finding scum. Call me crazy, but like...my vote is going back there haha.

What’s your read on Hawk

I have no confident read on Hawk. Didn’t mind her reaction to your red check post, but I know Hawk is really level-headed so I’m not surprised. I wouldn’t be surprised if she is fully lying to you either lol. I guess that’s where I’m at. The only read I’m feeling confident on atm is Dana.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I scumread Nanook immediately after coming into the thread, just to see JJJ townread him right afterwards. Not sure what to make of it. Nook explained why he wasn't explaining reads, which is a very not like the town!Nook I usually see. Usually he just pretends to be ignorant of the fact that the answers he is giving to questions about his is flippant. I'm on Page 11, and y'all need to stop posting so much so I can read D1 while still keeping up with the current day.

This is a wild read

Have you ever bothered to explain your flippant answers in any other games? Usually you just do it, and then someone gets mad and yells at you, then you pretend like you did nothing wrong and say that anyone can play however they want (which is true, but I think you often know you're being overly flippant).

Anyways, I'm up to page 17 now, and I read something where on the surface it looked like you backtracked on something just to get Gavial off your back, but I don't think you would do that as a wolf, so it actually made me think you might be town. Only 30 something more pages!

I'mma stop reading for a bit, but Sonny looks good thus far.

Yeah sometimes. Depends on my mood and how annoying/stick up their ass the person asking me is being

I highly doubt that I did, I typically just take jabs at seth or ignore him

Looking forward to my clear when you keep reading

[Actvscenei]

I don’t mean to drive down this tunnel...but I really think Dana is scum, y’all. I do not like the question about Nutella’s flip (feels like a forced derp), and I do not like this reiteration of the reads list. I think I’m going to trust my D1 initial instinct right now because D2 hasn’t changed my mind yet. Her reads are trying too hard. She isn’t really scum hunting, I really believe she is spending more time on her appearance than finding scum. Call me crazy, but like...my vote is going back there haha.

I was asked to answer these questions...?

Are you looking for an answer to this question or...? Lol. I didn’t say I didn’t like that you reiterated them. I said I didn’t like your reiteration.

I wonder why you came to the game thread with the role question. Why didn’t you ask in your discord channel? I figured a motive could have been to see if anyone outed themselves by knowing the answer, but you didn’t follow through with that. You didn’t persist or dig deeper for an answer. So that couldn’t have been the motive. General curiosity? Probably, but you had the entire night phase to ask questions of the game mods. Coming into the game thread and asking that question as one of your first posts into D2 has me thinking you know what that role is, consider it pretty unique, and asked the game thread as a sort of fake derp. All that aside, the general tone and timing of it don’t sit right with me. Call it vibes. To help quell my suspicion on you, can you explain your purpose for asking that question?

[Dana]

I don’t mean to drive down this tunnel...but I really think Dana is scum, y’all. I do not like the question about Nutella’s flip (feels like a forced derp), and I do not like this reiteration of the reads list. I think I’m going to trust my D1 initial instinct right now because D2 hasn’t changed my mind yet. Her reads are trying too hard. She isn’t really scum hunting, I really believe she is spending more time on her appearance than finding scum. Call me crazy, but like...my vote is going back there haha.

I was asked to answer these questions...?

Are you looking for an answer to this question or...? Lol. I didn’t say I didn’t like that you reiterated them. I said I didn’t like your reiteration.

I wonder why you came to the game thread with the role question. Why didn’t you ask in your discord channel? I figured a motive could have been to see if anyone outed themselves by knowing the answer, but you didn’t follow through with that. You didn’t persist or dig deeper for an answer. So that couldn’t have been the motive. General curiosity? Probably, but you had the entire night phase to ask questions of the game mods. Coming into the game thread and asking that question as one of your first posts into D2 has me thinking you know what that role is, consider it pretty unique, and asked the game thread as a sort of fake derp. All that aside, the general tone and timing of it don’t sit right with me. Call it vibes. To help quell my suspicion on you, can you explain your purpose for asking that question?

sure, I mean I had the question as soon as the flip happened, and tried to research the term on my own but wasn't able to find anything. I assumed the hosts posted what they wanted to post so I didn't want to bother them with asking what it meant, especially if it was a common term that others would have known so I thought it would be better to ask in the thread once morning came, in case I was the only one out of the loop. or if there were others that didn't know and some that did, then we could share our info all together which I feel like is better for town

[Seanzie]

Okay, I lied, I kept reading. People from MafC still seem to keep saying "oh, that is just Actv". As of Page 18, the only posts by Actv that look like town!Actv are with regards to Dana. Her interactions with everyone else do NOT look like town!Actv. Actv knows her meta, and I think she came in deliberatly trying to fake her paranoia/weird questions thing with Dana, but hasn't kept up with it with anyone else. I don't know anything that has happened after Page 18, but a lot of MafC players are saying "that's just act" early on, and I disagree.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: actv] aubergine

[Long Con]

Interesting

Great result, hopefully the Syndicate trend of losing to a wolf team after a Day 1 wolf yeet won't appear here. Awesome that there was no death last night, someone did a good doctoring or gifted a bulletproof vest or something. It does seem likely that they tried to hit JJJ, but who knows for sure? Someone will claim the protect at some point, hopefully before they die. Maybe leaving a hint that we could find in a posthumous ISO would be helpful. I'm going to catch up.

[Actvscenei]

@Dana

Actvscenei - suspected me which makes me instinctively want to suspect her but reading her ISO I'm not sure I can rly bring myself to do it. very slight townlean

What posts did you read to not want to suspect her and townlean her?

it feels to me like she was trying to be productive by asking questions and getting clarification for things. if you look at her ISO most of her middle day posts are lots and lots of questions, and I also like getting answers for things so I felt like that wasn’t bad. unsure if I still feel the same though, I’m gonna read her again

Alison - pushing actv so confidently as an "outed wolf" was a lil sus, but she backed off that after the fake claim (also maybe a little sis but a good explanation?). I feel like I just want to sheep her analytical brain reads but that worries me too in case I am putting too much trust. but still generally a minor townlean

If you are unsure about Alison why did you end up townleaning her anyway?

Also, do you have a habit of scum reading confident players?

because I trust her a little bit? idk if I have a habit of scum reading them, mostly of just wanting to trust them and then second guessing myself. once, I used a strategy of voting for my top town read bc I know I can get my reads all backwards and it worked so.. I try to keep that in the back of my mind

Belzy - I liked her couple posts earlier, they felt very substantial. it seemed to me like she was questioning things, bringing up concerns, and trying to move things along. generally helpful vibes

Sorry but this is also too vague, what couples of posts were substantial to you? What is in your opinion a substantial post and how does that help you?
What about her later posts?

I warned that the whole list would be pretty vague.. Her back and forth with JJJ and with you towards the beginning of her ISO gave me the sense that she was really trying to get context and figure things out. substantial to me is actually saying things, even if its just vibes and feelings, or at least trying to work things along and make any type of progress with solving

Guillotine - very unsure how I feel about him. im not sure how well I can articulate it but I am getting some vibes and im not sure how townie they are. I sensed some frustration earlier (but wasn't following super closely) which isn't really AI, i guess. but I was also confused about him asking not to be townread, unsure if that was a joke or not? idk..

Hmmmm? So you recognize i'm a townie but you are unsure of how much? What is the logic here, that im scum for asking to not be widely townread? Do you think mafia would do that?
Do you think mafia would not rejoice on getting townread and keep it like their most treasured belonging and influence town to sheep their reads, leading them to their doom?

Obvious townies get nightkilled by scum first so, i was asking to not be obvious town read. You get it now? (It was part a joke part a reaction test).

sure, mafia could ask to not be widely townread if that's something town would do and they are trying to act like they are town, but wifom I guess. I get it but it still feels strange to me, idk. maybe we just have different styles because when I am townread I am just kinda like.. "yeah. you're right. cool, good stuff"

I think mostly what threw me off about it was that you asked to not be widely townread but then seemed to get a little frustrated when you weren’t being townread later. Ive been feeling a tiny bit better about you recently, though

hawkataine - I like her posts a good amount. im here for the tone and the casualness yet still trying to clear things up, ask questions, etc. good vibes all around, so gonna give her town

Kito - first impression is pretty good vibe and tone in posts. v slight town read

Again very vague, i need to see you are not manufacturing your reads here. What posts you identified as town indicative from them?

hawk posts I initially liked: #930 | #932 | #989
though upon review im not sure there’s quite as much there as i previously thought. I feel like maybe we have similar writing styles too which might be making me a lil bit biased.. hmm. i do also like some of her later posts too though from after my reads list, like her ISO of Nutella here which I think looks kinda good for her given nutellas flip

kito posts I initially liked: #1254 | #1268 | #1274
I feel like he’s just generally kinda chill but still portrays a lil bit of confidence in his reads. I dont feel super strongly abt him or anything but enough to think he’s alright

MacDougall - I am also getting slightly different vibes from him vs the last games I've played where he was town. but idk if that means much bc I get the sense that he really just does his own thing and doesn't seem to care very much how it makes him come across. which is fine but def makes it very hard to really do anything with being able to read him.

So in your opinion, the town!Mac from other games is not present here correct? And somehow you end up null reading him anyway, what?

i mean I would say less of a null and more of a confused. like to me null feels like there’s nothing there to work with, and in this case I feel like there is something there but I just don’t know what to do with it. I do feel a different vibe from him but what im saying is im not sure how much weight that holds in regards to reading him. the last game I played with him before these past two where he was town, was a few years back and he outed his whole entire mafia team and still won anyway. so I kinda just feel like I need to leave the Mac-reading to those more experienced with him

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - I feel like he is doing some pretty alright hunting in his own way. I kind of put in him the same boat as mac in my mind where he kinda just does his own thing and everyone else is just kinda like... but im gonna say he's mostly okay for now

How do you null read mac but not this guy? Mac and Nook are players that are in their own world. Different worlds though. It takes several games to understand them.

i put him in the same "confused about" pile as Mac

nutella - im very tempted to sheep the ppl who know her better but I feel like there isn't really a consensus on her there so... v confused. Mac seemed to go back and forth a lil bit on her but is currently voting her so maybe the consensus is wolf. idk I am very tired and this is taking too many brain cells

Last time i checked Nutella had 6 votes on her out of 24 people, at what point do you determine there is a consensus on someone on day 1?
Do you scum read players who play with their votes?

I didnt mean thread consensus, I meant consensus from the people that could read her well. ppl can play with their votes, thats fine I guess especially on D1, but I appreciate it when they explain their moves too

I don’t know how to chunk things up neatly, so I’m going to broadly speak about this post here:

You explain your read on me and it indicates you’ve read my posts in concentration (you’re familiar with my ISO) but conclude by saying you’ll read my posts over again. This language is notoriously scum in my experience. It’s pretends to be productive. Why would you spend all that time going back through my ISO after coming off a night phase when you would have had the time to do so? Up until just now, I hadn’t posted anything new. Nothing new happened. Unless you just have a fancy for reading my posts many times over, I don’t see anyone actually doing that. So in this case, that assertion reads like fake productivity to me.

Your answer about Alison is uninformative and dismissive. You may as well have not said anything there.

Your read about Guilltine is not unique and Guilltine has SO much content this game, that this response feels uninspired.

The rest are non-committal. It’s “I like them, but I don’t, but I guess they’re okay” which has been something I’ve noticed in almost all of your posts.

I don’t believe you’re scum hunting. You’re being quite productively unproductive, from what I’m seeing in your posts.

[Actvscenei]

I don’t mean to drive down this tunnel...but I really think Dana is scum, y’all. I do not like the question about Nutella’s flip (feels like a forced derp), and I do not like this reiteration of the reads list. I think I’m going to trust my D1 initial instinct right now because D2 hasn’t changed my mind yet. Her reads are trying too hard. She isn’t really scum hunting, I really believe she is spending more time on her appearance than finding scum. Call me crazy, but like...my vote is going back there haha.

I was asked to answer these questions...?

Are you looking for an answer to this question or...? Lol. I didn’t say I didn’t like that you reiterated them. I said I didn’t like your reiteration.

I wonder why you came to the game thread with the role question. Why didn’t you ask in your discord channel? I figured a motive could have been to see if anyone outed themselves by knowing the answer, but you didn’t follow through with that. You didn’t persist or dig deeper for an answer. So that couldn’t have been the motive. General curiosity? Probably, but you had the entire night phase to ask questions of the game mods. Coming into the game thread and asking that question as one of your first posts into D2 has me thinking you know what that role is, consider it pretty unique, and asked the game thread as a sort of fake derp. All that aside, the general tone and timing of it don’t sit right with me. Call it vibes. To help quell my suspicion on you, can you explain your purpose for asking that question?

sure, I mean I had the question as soon as the flip happened, and tried to research the term on my own but wasn't able to find anything. I assumed the hosts posted what they wanted to post so I didn't want to bother them with asking what it meant, especially if it was a common term that others would have known so I thought it would be better to ask in the thread once morning came, in case I was the only one out of the loop. or if there were others that didn't know and some that did, then we could share our info all together which I feel like is better for town

I mean, I guess if you didn’t really care about the answer you’d feel less inclined to ask the mods, which tells me it was a question meant for the public. It appears to me as though you wanted us to see you ask that question. That’s the point I’m making here and I’m not convinced by your response.

[Dana]

I don’t know how to chunk things up neatly, so I’m going to broadly speak about this post here:

You explain your read on me and it indicates you’ve read my posts in concentration (you’re familiar with my ISO) but conclude by saying you’ll read my posts over again. This language is notoriously scum in my experience. It’s pretends to be productive. Why would you spend all that time going back through my ISO after coming off a night phase when you would have had the time to do so? Up until just now, I hadn’t posted anything new. Nothing new happened. Unless you just have a fancy for reading my posts many times over, I don’t see anyone actually doing that. So in this case, that assertion reads like fake productivity to me.

Your answer about Alison is uninformative and dismissive. You may as well have not said anything there.

Your read about Guilltine is not unique and Guilltine has SO much content this game, that this response feels uninspired.

The rest are non-committal. It’s “I like them, but I don’t, but I guess they’re okay” which has been something I’ve noticed in almost all of your posts.

I don’t believe you’re scum hunting. You’re being quite productively unproductive, from what I’m seeing in your posts.

yeah thats fair I guess, im not really that great at scum-hunting so im just trying my best to figure things out and be as helpful as I can be to those that are. I wrote the part about you yesterday before you had made some more posts that I haven't gotten caught up with yet (still need to read pages like 35-45 or so). I do like to read things many times over too though, I feel like its helpful especially after flips when new info come to light and now we have a little more context for posts than we did before. I think you have valid concerns but I dont really know how to make you feel better about them other than just saying thats normal for me, but you have no reason to believe that ig. commitment is a struggle

I mean, I guess if you didn’t really care about the answer you’d feel less inclined to ask the mods, which tells me it was a question meant for the public. It appears to me as though you wanted us to see you ask that question. That’s the point I’m making here and I’m not convinced by your response.

I did care about the answer, I was just satisfied with the answers I got so I didn't keep asking about it. I had assumed that term itself was the name of the role and not a descriptive type thing, so people clarifying that it was probably referring to a role that is usually named something else more detailed made sense to me and so I left it at that.

[Garden Gnome]

Has Garden Gnome done anything clearworthy?

No. Not at all.
What do you think? How do you see me right now?

[Actvscenei]

I don’t know how to chunk things up neatly, so I’m going to broadly speak about this post here:

You explain your read on me and it indicates you’ve read my posts in concentration (you’re familiar with my ISO) but conclude by saying you’ll read my posts over again. This language is notoriously scum in my experience. It’s pretends to be productive. Why would you spend all that time going back through my ISO after coming off a night phase when you would have had the time to do so? Up until just now, I hadn’t posted anything new. Nothing new happened. Unless you just have a fancy for reading my posts many times over, I don’t see anyone actually doing that. So in this case, that assertion reads like fake productivity to me.

Your answer about Alison is uninformative and dismissive. You may as well have not said anything there.

Your read about Guilltine is not unique and Guilltine has SO much content this game, that this response feels uninspired.

The rest are non-committal. It’s “I like them, but I don’t, but I guess they’re okay” which has been something I’ve noticed in almost all of your posts.

I don’t believe you’re scum hunting. You’re being quite productively unproductive, from what I’m seeing in your posts.

yeah thats fair I guess, im not really that great at scum-hunting so im just trying my best to figure things out and be as helpful as I can be to those that are. I wrote the part about you yesterday before you had made some more posts that I haven't gotten caught up with yet (still need to read pages like 35-45 or so). I do like to read things many times over too though, I feel like its helpful especially after flips when new info come to light and now we have a little more context for posts than we did before. I think you have valid concerns but I dont really know how to make you feel better about them other than just saying thats normal for me, but you have no reason to believe that ig. commitment is a struggle

I mean, I guess if you didn’t really care about the answer you’d feel less inclined to ask the mods, which tells me it was a question meant for the public. It appears to me as though you wanted us to see you ask that question. That’s the point I’m making here and I’m not convinced by your response.

I did care about the answer, I was just satisfied with the answers I got so I didn't keep asking about it. I had assumed that term itself was the name of the role and not a descriptive type thing, so people clarifying that it was probably referring to a role that is usually named something else more detailed made sense to me and so I left it at that.

If you understand your reads were vague, and said again that you warned they’d be vague, then what do you make of Belzy’s response that your explanations were (paraphrasing here) good and satisfactory. Essentially she commended your reads list for the detail. You speak positively of Belzy, but I don’t understand how this matches up. Wouldn’t it have pinged you, knowing your reads were vague, that Belzy thought otherwise?

[Sloonei]

nutella talks to people on day 1: an analysis

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

nutella, interact with me pleaseeeeeee

ok

Snap read is this exchange doesn't exist if Tangy and nutella are partners. Tangy is in full dog pee mode and looks like she really really wants to interact with nutella about the game. There's probably more restraint and less direct emphasis if they are partners, unless the exact plan is to fake this interaction for the exact read I have just produced. I am not confident in that being the case.

Spoiler: show

sure

not having a postcap is kinda scary with you here but at least hally isn't also playing

As further evidence for my case that this is not a staged early-game interaction: nutella does not reciprocate the enthusiasm at all. Two one-word responses and a quip about about Tangy's post volume. If they are partners and Tangy wants to make a big show of "working together" right off the bat, nutella's response is probably not going to be to sit quietly in the corner.

Spoiler: show

Sloonei/JJJ/Dana are town.

Tangrowth is a maybe but I'm leaning town there.

nutella remains to be seen but will self-resolve.

Tangy's just town, sloonei is more of a question mark for me but thats also just a meme at this point isnt it

Yeah none of this Tangy stuff looks like teammates. No comment on Alison here.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: nanook] aubergine

Wait what

Nook self voting smh

This sequence of posts exists. I don't know what the "wait what" is in reference to, but it's sandwiched between a nanook vote and a nanook observation. There is zero substance here, but a nanook self-vote early on Day 1 is hardly the strangest thing one will see nanook do in a mafia game, so I don't know why it would prompt a vote or suspicion from nutella.
This can be distancing but it does not need to be.

Spoiler: show

First date icebreaker question for everyone: what’s your favorite trip you’ve ever been on?

Disney World/Disney Cruises. And you?

Follow up, why did you choose to ask this particular question?

wolfy first post

I did not hate this post in real time. It might be distancing. It might be a good look for Act. Only time and more progression will tell.

Spoiler: show

Everyone quick vote AllCrab before he gets into thread!
If he’s yeeted Anyone who voted them gets free town credit tomorrow!

okay so for those of you who don't know gavial

just do the opposite of what he says, ez win

Gavial TBD but probably just town TBH

Spoiler: show

why allcrab tho

nutella follows up her gavial jab with a genuine question about the read he had expressed initially. Gut says that's a good look for him. If they're teammates she does one or the other. She doesn't make both of these posts.

Spoiler: show

Guillo you agree with actv re: dana? I had the opposite reaction, I thought dana's tone was more villagery and actv's game me awk vibes

Three new names enter the scene here: Act V, Dana, Guillotine. Nutella question's Guillo's read on Dana by way of Act. She directly defends Dana and shades Act. Guillo is the neutral third party.
It seems the question is a genuine one for Guillo: at this point he was stuck in Bear-posting, so the meaning of his response (here) is unclear. Gun to my head I will call that a good look for Guillo: it looks like a genuine effort from nutella to engage with someone about a read that she treats as real. It might be a bit too early for nutella to come to the rescue of a teammate (hypothetically Dana), but it's not too early to throw subtle shade at a partner (hypothetically Act). There is absolutely no reason why I need to read Act one way or the other here though. I get the sense nutella's primary motive in this post is to talk to Guillotine in an effort to pass as town. Good look for guillo, perhaps a moderately good look for Dana, no strong feelings about Act.

Spoiler: show

Guillo you agree with actv re: dana? I had the opposite reaction, I thought dana's tone was more villagery and actv's game me awk vibes

hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

[image of a perplexed bear]

why would a wolf say that lol

On the other hand... what if nutella's intent here is to rescue her partner in Dana? This post more directly and explicitly serves the purpose of defending her. No mafia team wants to lose one of their own on Day 1, obviously. But it can also be risky to stick one's neck out for a partner so early like that. Unless, of course, that is the plan. Suspicion of Dana here relies on heavy WIFOM, but it's not impossible. I'll keep reading.

Spoiler: show

Guillo's perspective is wack to me but in a town indicative way

I agree with this read. This is not how Teammate 1 announces a townread on Teammate 2 on Day 1.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: actvscenei] aubergine

got the sense she had tmi on tangy and then walked it back a little

This is the second time Act has been the subject of criticism from nutella already. That makes her the most substantial suspect in nutella's ISO so far. A blank nanook vote and an observation about his self-vote do not constitute substance.
This post feels more like a direct attempt to build momentum against Act. I will call it a good look for her, but tentatively. nutella is not afraid of distancing, I don't think.

Spoiler: show

Hi, I am a Gnome! I spend a lot of time in the garden so I don't go out on very many dates. I understand about feeling nervous and excited and about the need to have a healthy dose of paranoia because I too get pcoketed a lot by eager scum! They are so charming that I end up on and I am not even aware of all of the noisy howls It is very sad. I am looking for a sweet towny date and feel nervous and excited about finding romance, despite the presence of scummy scum scum!

I'm torn about this post more than I'd typically be for some early Day 1 thing.

Some part of me appreciates this pointed effort from Garden Gnome to reach across the site aisle to offer Dana encouragement, and the enthusiasm is nice. The language bears that sort of surface appearance that often gets people into trouble (e.g. scummy scum scum), sometimes rightly and often not.

Seeking opinions

Having played with Gnome before I'm not specifically concerned, her tone is just like that regardless of alignment

No read on Gnome, but this exists.

Spoiler: show

what the frick frack snick snack is going ON fellas

town

A townread on Kito for basically nothing. Lame.

Spoiler: show

Can you two tell me what you think of each other so far?

@Dana
@Alison

Alison seems to kind of roll up and somehow very quickly get a handle on what's going on. from what I know of her, she seems to be super logical and analytical which makes her a strong player. I trust her for the most part, but still a little warily for now

I do not like the equivocation in your posts. You are not confident in what you’re posting. There is hesitation which tells me you’re afraid to commit to an idea. If you’re town, your opinion is your opinion. No need to equivocate. It is scummy behavior to step so carefully around an opinion.

I’ve voted for you, and this is partly why.

no

Harsh, blunt denial of Act's Dana suspicion. I feel like Act's reAction to this will be more telling for me, but on first glance it does not feel like distancing on nutella's part. It feels more provocative than engaging; like her plan here is to pile negative attention onto Act rather than to promote a dialogue with her.

Spoiler: show

Can you two tell me what you think of each other so far?

@Dana
@Alison

Alison seems to kind of roll up and somehow very quickly get a handle on what's going on. from what I know of her, she seems to be super logical and analytical which makes her a strong player. I trust her for the most part, but still a little warily for now

I do not like the equivocation in your posts. You are not confident in what you’re posting. There is hesitation which tells me you’re afraid to commit to an idea. If you’re town, your opinion is your opinion. No need to equivocate. It is scummy behavior to step so carefully around an opinion.

I’ve voted for you, and this is partly why.

no

No what?

hedging isn't scummy

[VOTE: Dana] aubergine

Do you think your read on Garden Gnome doesn't feature equivocation?

Not the way in which Dana is with their posts this game. Starting from Dana’s first post through most subsequent posts, Dana is equivocating. At some point, I think it’s safe to say there is some level of back and forth from players. It isn’t about a single post. Dana started off right away careful about appearing a certain way. Dana cared more about appearances and had a focus on how they came across to others.

I’m very firm when I say I can’t read Gnome. I am not offering a read on gnome so much as explaining to you why I will likely refrain from reading her. I don’t see it the same way.

hmm ok

Alternative viewpoint to the above: nutella is being ultra-tightlipped toward Act, which may be conducive to scum theater. nutella says a maximum of three words in all of her Act-related posts in this sequence. I could see a scene where they decide to butt heads early in the game, and nutella's approach to this is to be as bluntly negative as she can be, keeping things short for emphasis, but also to lessen the blow of the exchange. While nutella has been decidedly negative toward Act up until the "hmm ok" post, there is not much weight in any of these posts. But then, playing fast and loose is kind of just nutella's M.O., so this could also just be meta-faking 101. But I still need to try to produce a read on Act here, so.

Spoiler: show

there are differences in how mac "does" chaos as town vs mafia but it's not necessarily a regular pattern ime

General opinion about MacDougall as a mafia player with no comment on things as they relate to this game.

Spoiler: show

I feel null about them. I’m waiting to hear back from Alison on a couple things.

With the “healthy dose” of criticism on me, what do you make of it? Do you have a read on me? On those voting me?

I read all four of your voters as town to varying degrees. I understand the criticism and think that it's at least technically valid even if it doesn't sell me -- you'd be in what is presently a vast POE pool and on the short list of votes I'd consider. I want you to have an opportunity to go about your hunt and game solving your own way, so I release you from my own questions. Thanks for answering.

I appreciate the formality here lol. What doesn’t sell you about their arguments?

Being stilted is not a terribly reliable tell in my experience, and your suspicion of Dana doesn't have to be fake. You're not the only one expressing it.

Yeah, I'm not feeling the stilted thing as particularly meaningful for the same reason.

no so actually anyone who has a different posting style from me is a wolf, sorry thats just how it is


jk im starting to think actv is just like that

The Actwagong begins to gain some trAction, but then two vocal players (Jay and Tangy) express tentative town reads on her, and nutella follows their lead. Hm. Maybe it was theater afterall.

Spoiler: show

yeah i'm not convinced what jay is talking about applies to literal 2021 mac

Just want to note that I can easily see Mafia Nutella defending Town Mac in this manner here. She feels Mac is being confronted with an out-of-date meta-read and speaks up for him. nutella has probably played more recent games with Mac than Jay has, and so she might worry that he would be suspicious if she didn't say anything here.

Spoiler: show

Wait, @Guillotine, did you answer why you suspect Nutella?

Guillo's perspective is wack to me but in a town indicative way

For this. She townread me followed by a discredit.

What was the discredit?

That I'm town but my perspective is wack. Feels like a gaslight, the kind of read that tells the thread that I could be town but my reads cannot be taken serious.

Is there any other reason for your read or was that the only thing?

No, there is one more. Voting Nanook for self voting when it's obvious that

a) Nanook always self votes
b) It was reaction test (that she failed).

I didn't vote nanook for self voting, I literally only noticed he had self voted after I had placed my vote

Interesting. Now it's Act's turn to subtly take nutella's side. I think this whole exchange looks exceedingly good for Guillotine. Nutella looks to be genuinely bothered by it, and Guillo's pressure has the appearance of being very sincere. Guillo town, or at least not nutella-aligned.

Spoiler: show

Okay anyway yes hi all I am v excited to be here which is dampened only slightly by how much y'all post lmao

Act and gnome are weird as players, can confirm, haven't really seen any suspicion on them yet that hasn't seemed like a reaction to their standard posting style

Idk if anyone was playing on MU when it first launched in like 2015-16 ish but possibly paths have crossed????? idk I very vaguely recognise some names and it's very offputting xD

I don't believe we've met but I'm enjoying your posting so far

Nutella says hello to hawk. Nothing more.

Spoiler: show

Wait, @Guillotine, did you answer why you suspect Nutella?

Guillo's perspective is wack to me but in a town indicative way

For this. She townread me followed by a discredit.

What was the discredit?

That I'm town but my perspective is wack. Feels like a gaslight, the kind of read that tells the thread that I could be town but my reads cannot be taken serious.

It's just my thoughts dude, I can think youre town while also thinking your perspective is misguided

I agree with this, and I also find Guillo’s suspicion on that point weak, but not out of his play style.

Can you explain why you voted for Nanook? Guillo says it was the self-vote. Can you elaborate?

like I just said I didn't know he had self voted until after I voted lol. I voted him mostly to get things going and he was one of two people who had been in thread at the time that I didn't actively townread already (the other being sloonei) and he was saying some nanookishly cagey things so I just tossed a vote on to see what would happen.

Moved to you fairly soon after as I didn't like your first few posts but your increased activity feels better. I'm still not understanding your take on Tangy's posts though, if you have a read there would like more explanation.

I will be very interested in digging further into the nutella/act relationship later on. They're putting a lot of work into the spectacle if they are partners. It is tougher to tell on that sort of thing in this environment: much of this could just be two relative strangers trying to figure each other out.

Spoiler: show

nutella quote which posts Act has been townie in.

it's not specific posts it's that the more she's posted the more I think it's just her style, and the fact that she's generally interacted/prodded a lot

Posting this now because of length. Continuing on in another post.

tl;dr of this post: Guillotine town. Actvscenei intriguing name to keep an eye on. Tangy town, Gavial probably town.

[Guillotine]

it feels to me like she was trying to be productive by asking questions and getting clarification for things. if you look at her ISO most of her middle day posts are lots and lots of questions, and I also like getting answers for things so I felt like that wasn’t bad. unsure if I still feel the same though, I’m gonna read her again

I didnt ask you how you felt, i asked you what posts did you read to not want to suspect Act and townlean her. You've been vague even after giving you a second chance to out proper reads. @Dana

[Guillotine]

I warned that the whole list would be pretty vague.. Her back and forth with JJJ and with you towards the beginning of her ISO gave me the sense that she was really trying to get context and figure things out. substantial to me is actually saying things, even if its just vibes and feelings, or at least trying to work things along and make any type of progress with solving

Are you purposely evading my questions? I asked what couples of posts were substantial to you? Point them out.

[Guillotine]

sure, mafia could ask to not be widely townread if that's something town would do and they are trying to act like they are town, but wifom I guess. I get it but it still feels strange to me, idk. maybe we just have different styles because when I am townread I am just kinda like.. "yeah. you're right. cool, good stuff"

So you acknowledge that what i did is something town would do and yet you scum read me for doing something a townie would do? What?! Lol

[Actvscenei]

Okay, I lied, I kept reading. People from MafC still seem to keep saying "oh, that is just Actv". As of Page 18, the only posts by Actv that look like town!Actv are with regards to Dana. Her interactions with everyone else do NOT look like town!Actv. Actv knows her meta, and I think she came in deliberatly trying to fake her paranoia/weird questions thing with Dana, but hasn't kept up with it with anyone else. I don't know anything that has happened after Page 18, but a lot of MafC players are saying "that's just act" early on, and I disagree.

Do you have a more concrete reason for scum reading me (to then vote me) other than meta? I don’t buy this as a real read considering you hardly know my meta lol.

Please quote where I’ve been paranoid with Dana.

What are my weird questions? Can you quote those as well?

What specifically am I doing that you believe is scum motivated?