Modern Family Hydra Mafia [GAME END]

[Poop Explosions]

This shit from TAT is a better argument to move off of van than anyone else has given me.

[trans rights]

So to preflip, what do you need? Confidence, right?

on a sidenote, i think julinook is a villager for nanook's push onto two and through. it's in the sweetspot where it probably isn't a bus if two and through is a wolf and i generally like the aggression and persistence of the read

i kinda get the feeling that there's a wolf in two and through and mana. again mana's vote on two and through is kinda bad regarding of the latter's alignment. they also went into commentary mode regarding my interactions with bottom text in a wolfy way. if mana is a wolf, bottom text is probably a villager i think.

The preflip on TAT is almost a "whoops I preflipped" preflip. Like you're barely supposed to notice van's already counting TAT as a pelt.

Up to now van's regularly called that one thing TAT did wolfy, but hasn't really gone past that. She clearly isn't sure on TAT in the second quote. She's already considering Nook spewed by TAT.

The Mana preflip has all the same problems. First of all, why the fuck does there even need to be a dichotomy again, especially when she says the reads have nothing to do with each other, and then again, the preflip on the unconfident scumread. She hedged on the read when it first came up too, saying it could be TWTBAW.

The whole thing just feels like she's putting worldbuilding in front of plain reads in an agenda'y way. Like, she's not diving headfirst all the way into either read, but she's playing with that plan in mind anyway.

ooookay so i missed this post. woops. it's a villagery look at the very least.

so is the point here that i'm not diving 6 layers deep in a wolf read? i mean... that's not really my style to begin with. you're basically calling me a wolf because i started pushed on two and through for a specific reason and not much past that, which... you're suggesting that i need 10 reasons for someone to be a wolf to actually be super confident in it? i think that's pretty absurd, and absolutely not true for me personally anyways. tell me one person that has demonstrated an incredibly nuanced and multilayered read in this game so far if you can? because i can't remember one (you dont count btw). i do think two and through is a wolf currently, and my posts should clearly indicate as such. you're placing your unreasonably high expectations onto me. it's d1 my friend. i'm not going to have a dissertation on why two and through or mana are wolves if they are wolves.

the dichotomy i'm placing between mana and two and through is based on how mana treated two and through. the slot voted two and through but in a vicarious way. you pointed out that i hedged, and that's true. to me it looks like it's too bad of a vote to be w/w, but it's not like i've seen bad w/w votes before. that's just what my gut instinct said. if wolves are going to vote on their partners, they want to look good. i also never said that they had nothing to do with each other, you're misconstruing that based on me saying "regardless of two and through's alignment". that's not the implication there. the implication is that the vote looks individually bad for mana.

besides i feel like you're seeing ghosts wrt this disparity. my read on julinook is not just based on two and through being a wolf, it's also based on how they approached the read. that's villagery to me regardless of two and through's alignment. my read on mana is that some of their posts are wolfy regardless of two and through's alignment.

regardless, i think the conclusion also has problems insofar as you haven't actually asked yourself why if i was a wolf i would be pre-flipping. the most obvious answer would be tmi, right? but you clearly don't seem to think that's the case based on you thinking my posts are agenda-y. so i'm just confused on where you stand on this as a whole.

[TwoAndThrough]

Okay, enough.

A votes B, B votes C, C votes A...a vote triangle.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???????????????????????

There seems to be no shortage of people who want to make something out of me not having a fucking clue what it means...so show me how it is some great revelatory mechanism. Go ahead.

I look at voting so I saw something, and I mentioned it. Maybe someone else sees me point it out and has some meaning to offer. Maybe someone says "huh, interesting, never seen that either." And maybe a bunch of people saying that I am a wolf for not having a clue what it means should put up or shut up, because I think they have no idea what it means either.

look. point out an observation, fine. that's perfectly okay! maybe one of us will get something out of it! i personally do not think it's very useful because it's hard to make a correlation between any of the votes, and there usually aren't going to be in those types of scenarios. the fact of the matter is that was still the only relevant read you had given the entire game up until that point, disregarding anything regarding mist's godread which was only shade at best, and nothing came of that.

listen to what i just mentioned though. correlation between any of the votes. this is what you should be looking for if you make the observation! why did i vote poop explosions? why did bottom text vote me? why did poop explosions vote bottom text? and are these related in a way that's meaningful? this is the point. if you're going to make an observation, investigate it to its fullest. just making the observation and leaving it at that like your work was done isn't actually that helpful.

Tim's not being helpful!!!!

Must be a wolf!!!!

Have you ever played with Tim?

how is this a defense.

Because it points out that your tunnel is completely lacking in any real basis, but you are making it the basis of your entire game of preflip world building.

Tim is never "helpful" on day one. Everyone who has played with him, or read a game he was in, or even talked about him in spec chat knows that. You are using "not helpful" to fake a wolf read, and then building a whole world view out of pre-flips, and it seems like it all comes back to "Tim asked Mist a question we don't wanna talk about so let's hack at him."

The pretending you don't see how that is a "defense" is I think the final log on the fire.

[VOTE: Trans Rights] aubergine

man you are just lock scum

this isn't about being helpful, it's about you two pretending to be helpful

what in the good god hell is the point of a VOTE TRIANGLE ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!!! observation

meaningless

it's loud noises

cue meta reply from tim/hk saying "that's just how we be" coupled with some self-important quip to "hey wolf chat" or "hey spec chat" and some nonsense about how we should know better, tim/hk aren't going to endgame (despite frequently endgaming), how they'll get the solve if we just let them be, yada yada yada yada

bye

Please point out where we pretended to be helpful? We have accumulated a pile of crappy votes specifically for being "not helpful." If we've been "pretending to be helpful" we have done a particularly shit job of it. This is EXACTLY the kind of shit read you made and stood on ALL GAME in GoC.

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

I townread trans rights just for that word salad

[TwoAndThrough]

This shit from TAT is a better argument to move off of van than anyone else has given me.

LOL...the "shit" is the same thing that got you onto them in the first place, I just used words instead of "sheep me I am the mighty Mac."

[TwoAndThrough]

I townread trans rights just for that word salad

which one?

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

I townread trans rights just for that word salad

which one?

The recent one

[TwoAndThrough]

I townread trans rights just for that word salad

which one?

The recent one

k...I'll look at it again.

[Julinook]

I'm back from work and will be catching up and iso'ing Two and Through and a couple others. Also grabbing something to eat.

[trans rights]

two and through you think that your vote triangulation read was unhelpful? i said it unhelpful in the sense that you didn't follow through with actually investigated the read through, and as soon as i pointed that out, you deflected with the "tell me if tim has ever been helpful on d1". that's not a valid defense. i didn't mean to say it was unhelpful period, because i don't think it was a useless observation by itself. if you're curious about that, ask the thread if it was useless BY ITSELF. it's in the way that it was portrayed.

[Timsup2gettinserious]

This is EXACTLY the kind of shit read you made and stood on ALL GAME in GoC.

quality of that game went up considerably once you were forced out tbh

good read, would make again

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

two and through you think that your vote triangulation read was unhelpful? i said it unhelpful in the sense that you didn't follow through with actually investigated the read through, and as soon as i pointed that out, you deflected with the "tell me if tim has ever been helpful on d1". that's not a valid defense. i didn't mean to say it was unhelpful period, because i don't think it was a useless observation by itself. if you're curious about that, ask the thread if it was useless BY ITSELF. it's in the way that it was portrayed.

Yeah, agreed. Like I said before, it's a good observation to have because I doubt I would have noticed. What's unhelpful about it is that there is no substance or a conclusion from the triangulation.

Maybe unhelpful was the wrong word.

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

This is EXACTLY the kind of shit read you made and stood on ALL GAME in GoC.

quality of that game went up considerably once you were forced out tbh

good read, would make again

harsh

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

You’d say “Us”
Why do you suspect “us” as Mafia.
As your 1 of the 4.

holy shit

Would it be unreasonable to ignore anything Toopy says? Binoo seems more reasonable.

[trans rights]

You’d say “Us”
Why do you suspect “us” as Mafia.
As your 1 of the 4.

holy shit

Would it be unreasonable to ignore anything Toopy says? Binoo seems more reasonable.

not at all

~mawile

[TwoAndThrough]

Spoiler: show

So to preflip, what do you need? Confidence, right?

on a sidenote, i think julinook is a villager for nanook's push onto two and through. it's in the sweetspot where it probably isn't a bus if two and through is a wolf and i generally like the aggression and persistence of the read

i kinda get the feeling that there's a wolf in two and through and mana. again mana's vote on two and through is kinda bad regarding of the latter's alignment. they also went into commentary mode regarding my interactions with bottom text in a wolfy way. if mana is a wolf, bottom text is probably a villager i think.

The preflip on TAT is almost a "whoops I preflipped" preflip. Like you're barely supposed to notice van's already counting TAT as a pelt.

Up to now van's regularly called that one thing TAT did wolfy, but hasn't really gone past that. She clearly isn't sure on TAT in the second quote. She's already considering Nook spewed by TAT.

The Mana preflip has all the same problems. First of all, why the fuck does there even need to be a dichotomy again, especially when she says the reads have nothing to do with each other, and then again, the preflip on the unconfident scumread. She hedged on the read when it first came up too, saying it could be TWTBAW.

The whole thing just feels like she's putting worldbuilding in front of plain reads in an agenda'y way. Like, she's not diving headfirst all the way into either read, but she's playing with that plan in mind anyway.

ooookay so i missed this post. woops. it's a villagery look at the very least.

so is the point here that i'm not diving 6 layers deep in a wolf read? i mean... that's not really my style to begin with. you're basically calling me a wolf because i started pushed on two and through for a specific reason and not much past that, which... you're suggesting that i need 10 reasons for someone to be a wolf to actually be super confident in it? i think that's pretty absurd, and absolutely not true for me personally anyways. tell me one person that has demonstrated an incredibly nuanced and multilayered read in this game so far if you can? because i can't remember one (you dont count btw). i do think two and through is a wolf currently, and my posts should clearly indicate as such. you're placing your unreasonably high expectations onto me. it's d1 my friend. i'm not going to have a dissertation on why two and through or mana are wolves if they are wolves.

the dichotomy i'm placing between mana and two and through is based on how mana treated two and through. the slot voted two and through but in a vicarious way. you pointed out that i hedged, and that's true. to me it looks like it's too bad of a vote to be w/w, but it's not like i've seen bad w/w votes before. that's just what my gut instinct said. if wolves are going to vote on their partners, they want to look good. i also never said that they had nothing to do with each other, you're misconstruing that based on me saying "regardless of two and through's alignment". that's not the implication there. the implication is that the vote looks individually bad for mana.

besides i feel like you're seeing ghosts wrt this disparity. my read on julinook is not just based on two and through being a wolf, it's also based on how they approached the read. that's villagery to me regardless of two and through's alignment. my read on mana is that some of their posts are wolfy regardless of two and through's alignment.

regardless, i think the conclusion also has problems insofar as you haven't actually asked yourself why if i was a wolf i would be pre-flipping. the most obvious answer would be tmi, right? but you clearly don't seem to think that's the case based on you thinking my posts are agenda-y. so i'm just confused on where you stand on this as a whole.

Do you have any interest in actually solving this slot, or are you just on "flip it and see"?

Because I already gave a common wolf agenda for making pre-flip reads, and you apparently didn't read that post.

It seems like you have no interest in actually "defending" your slot, since you are just dismissing or not even reading questions/observations about what you are doing.

It also seems like you aren't really interested in evaluating me, just in making sure no one listens to me.

To repeat...wolves hate to make reads day one that will commit them. If someone becomes a consensus borderline POE and the wolf laid down a town read day one that is hard for them to get out of it makes it awkward to push for the mischop. If it comes down to really needing to expand a tightening POE it is even worse. So, good wolf makes a bunch of preflip reads instead. They look "helpful" and "solvey"...but when the root of their world flips one simple "oh I was wrong there" gives them a free range reset by erasing all those awkward day one reads.

Now, I'm kind of interested in the Mana read, because you are now making it very clear that is a read you are willing to commit to regardless of my alignment. If you could expand on how that is a wolfy vote a little more that would be...well...helpful.

[Poop Explosions]

so is the point here that i'm not diving 6 layers deep in a wolf read? i mean... that's not really my style to begin with. you're basically calling me a wolf because i started pushed on two and through for a specific reason and not much past that, which... you're suggesting that i need 10 reasons for someone to be a wolf to actually be super confident in it? i think that's pretty absurd, and absolutely not true for me personally anyways. tell me one person that has demonstrated an incredibly nuanced and multilayered read in this game so far if you can? because i can't remember one (you dont count btw). i do think two and through is a wolf currently, and my posts should clearly indicate as such. you're placing your unreasonably high expectations onto me. it's d1 my friend. i'm not going to have a dissertation on why two and through or mana are wolves if they are wolves.

No, not even close. I don't care that you aren't confident, and I don't care that you're preflipping, but I do care that you're doing both at once. Not having a driver's license is legal, and driving is legal, but driving without a license? Oh boy.

And no, I do not care about the number of points you've raised. I'm a firm believer in locking reads over small things with simple reasons. My point has nothing to do with depth and everything to do with the confidence that you've actually expressed in this thread. That confidence is low.

the dichotomy i'm placing between mana and two and through is based on how mana treated two and through. the slot voted two and through but in a vicarious way. you pointed out that i hedged, and that's true. to me it looks like it's too bad of a vote to be w/w, but it's not like i've seen bad w/w votes before. that's just what my gut instinct said. if wolves are going to vote on their partners, they want to look good. i also never said that they had nothing to do with each other, you're misconstruing that based on me saying "regardless of two and through's alignment". that's not the implication there. the implication is that the vote looks individually bad for mana.

Still need an answer to "why the fuck does there even need to be a dichotomy". I get that this could just be my distaste for dichotomies in general speaking, so I won't weigh this heavily or anything, but why can't it just be two wolfreads?

besides i feel like you're seeing ghosts wrt this disparity. my read on julinook is not just based on two and through being a wolf, it's also based on how they approached the read. that's villagery to me regardless of two and through's alignment. my read on mana is that some of their posts are wolfy regardless of two and through's alignment.

Yeah, obviously it's not the sole factor, or even the primary favtor, but why is it a factor at all if you're not confident on TAT?

regardless, i think the conclusion also has problems insofar as you haven't actually asked yourself why if i was a wolf i would be pre-flipping. the most obvious answer would be tmi, right? but you clearly don't seem to think that's the case based on you thinking my posts are agenda-y. so i'm just confused on where you stand on this as a whole.

"The whole thing just feels like she's putting worldbuilding in front of plain reads in an agenda'y way. Like, she's not diving headfirst all the way into either read, but she's playing with that plan in mind anyway."

Wouldn't be the first time I've seen a wolf stick to forced worldbuilding to push an agenda.

[TwoAndThrough]

This is EXACTLY the kind of shit read you made and stood on ALL GAME in GoC.

quality of that game went up considerably once you were forced out tbh

good read, would make again

as I recall, about the time I was forced out is about the time town lost to exactly who I was saying we were going to lose to

[Poop Explosions]

This shit from TAT is a better argument to move off of van than anyone else has given me.

LOL...the "shit" is the same thing that got you onto them in the first place, I just used words instead of "sheep me I am the mighty Mac."

I may be mighty, but I am most certainly not Mac.

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

If this is C4 posting rn then I think Poop is town. When he was wolf in CoV, he sort of lacked any real conviction with his pushes. He had me as a scum read, and when I did a minor push back he completely dropped the read within a page.

[TwoAndThrough]

two and through you think that your vote triangulation read was unhelpful? i said it unhelpful in the sense that you didn't follow through with actually investigated the read through, and as soon as i pointed that out, you deflected with the "tell me if tim has ever been helpful on d1". that's not a valid defense. i didn't mean to say it was unhelpful period, because i don't think it was a useless observation by itself. if you're curious about that, ask the thread if it was useless BY ITSELF. it's in the way that it was portrayed.

I pointed it out. I specifically said that having never seen the like I had no idea what to make of it. You, who apparently also have no idea what to make of it, seem to be saying that having no idea what to make of it is wolfy. How does that even work?

[Poop Explosions]

If this is C4 posting rn then I think Poop is town. When he was wolf in CoV, he sort of lacked any real conviction with his pushes. He had me as a scum read, and when I did a minor push back he completely dropped the read within a page.

Right for the wrong reasons. I wouldn't look at my CoV play, look at how that turned out, rand wolf in another game, and think "I should do that again".

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

If this is C4 posting rn then I think Poop is town. When he was wolf in CoV, he sort of lacked any real conviction with his pushes. He had me as a scum read, and when I did a minor push back he completely dropped the read within a page.

Right for the wrong reasons. I wouldn't look at my CoV play, look at how that turned out, rand wolf in another game, and think "I should do that again".

Maybe, I don't know how easy it is to turn it off/on like a light switch. It's why meta exists.

Admittedly I have no idea what your town game is like

[Timsup2gettinserious]

This is EXACTLY the kind of shit read you made and stood on ALL GAME in GoC.

quality of that game went up considerably once you were forced out tbh

good read, would make again

as I recall, about the time I was forced out is about the time town lost to exactly who I was saying we were going to lose to

you recall incorrectly

your dying breath was to clear Alison

anyway, your point is garbo regardless, given that we were t/t there

[Timsup2gettinserious]

two and through you think that your vote triangulation read was unhelpful? i said it unhelpful in the sense that you didn't follow through with actually investigated the read through, and as soon as i pointed that out, you deflected with the "tell me if tim has ever been helpful on d1". that's not a valid defense. i didn't mean to say it was unhelpful period, because i don't think it was a useless observation by itself. if you're curious about that, ask the thread if it was useless BY ITSELF. it's in the way that it was portrayed.

I pointed it out. I specifically said that having never seen the like I had no idea what to make of it. You, who apparently also have no idea what to make of it, seem to be saying that having no idea what to make of it is wolfy. How does that even work?

voting triangles happen in almost every game

you haven't "seen them" because there's nothing special about it

[Timsup2gettinserious]

if you think there's something special about it, say what's special about it

[Akemi Hazelnut]

Because it points out that your tunnel is completely lacking in any real basis, but you are making it the basis of your entire game of preflip world building.

Tim is never "helpful" on day one. Everyone who has played with him, or read a game he was in, or even talked about him in spec chat knows that. You are using "not helpful" to fake a wolf read, and then building a whole world view out of pre-flips, and it seems like it all comes back to "Tim asked Mist a question we don't wanna talk about so let's hack at him."

The pretending you don't see how that is a "defense" is I think the final log on the fire.

[VOTE: Trans Rights] aubergine

I think you're often helpful as town D1

You may not establish rapport and build towncores or be textbook "helpful" town the same way Hally or JJJ are, but I remember in Radiohead you did some solid solving work on Oddmerta and I interacted with you about it, and we both came away with an impression of townieness from each other. Same in Philosopher's, you were classically town there. I don't associate town Tim with being sunshine and roses, but I do think he can easily do very solid solving work and dig deep into interactions that catch his eye. I don't think it's wrong to say that it's a red flag that you don't have any interest in following up on something you thought was potentially meaningful.

[Akemi Hazelnut]

You’d say “Us”
Why do you suspect “us” as Mafia.
As your 1 of the 4.

holy shit

Would it be unreasonable to ignore anything Toopy says? Binoo seems more reasonable.

I find Toopy's words actively scummy and I don't want to ignore him.

[Poop Explosions]

If this is C4 posting rn then I think Poop is town. When he was wolf in CoV, he sort of lacked any real conviction with his pushes. He had me as a scum read, and when I did a minor push back he completely dropped the read within a page.

Right for the wrong reasons. I wouldn't look at my CoV play, look at how that turned out, rand wolf in another game, and think "I should do that again".

Maybe, I don't know how easy it is to turn it off/on like a light switch. It's why meta exists.

Admittedly I have no idea what your town game is like

This Bender I'm speaking to? Sup

My towngame varies a lot, but most of the kinds of reads I made in CoV are reads I would absolutely make as town. The main difference between CoV and my town game is that I actually do something with my reads as town.

[Akemi Hazelnut]

Poop if I asked you to admit whether or not Mac has pretended to be c4 at various points in the game would you admit it

[TwoAndThrough]

Because it points out that your tunnel is completely lacking in any real basis, but you are making it the basis of your entire game of preflip world building.

Tim is never "helpful" on day one. Everyone who has played with him, or read a game he was in, or even talked about him in spec chat knows that. You are using "not helpful" to fake a wolf read, and then building a whole world view out of pre-flips, and it seems like it all comes back to "Tim asked Mist a question we don't wanna talk about so let's hack at him."

The pretending you don't see how that is a "defense" is I think the final log on the fire.

[VOTE: Trans Rights] aubergine

I think you're often helpful as town D1

You may not establish rapport and build towncores or be textbook "helpful" town the same way Hally or JJJ are, but I remember in Radiohead you did some solid solving work on Oddmerta and I interacted with you about it, and we both came away with an impression of townieness from each other. Same in Philosopher's, you were classically town there. I don't associate town Tim with being sunshine and roses, but I do think he can easily do very solid solving work and dig deep into interactions that catch his eye. I don't think it's wrong to say that it's a red flag that you don't have any interest in following up on something you thought was potentially meaningful.

I am digging into it. I'm exploring why people who also have no opinion on "what it means" are trying to use me having no opinion on what it means as a lever to push me with. What do you think of the way that is progressing?

[trans rights]

so is the point here that i'm not diving 6 layers deep in a wolf read? i mean... that's not really my style to begin with. you're basically calling me a wolf because i started pushed on two and through for a specific reason and not much past that, which... you're suggesting that i need 10 reasons for someone to be a wolf to actually be super confident in it? i think that's pretty absurd, and absolutely not true for me personally anyways. tell me one person that has demonstrated an incredibly nuanced and multilayered read in this game so far if you can? because i can't remember one (you dont count btw). i do think two and through is a wolf currently, and my posts should clearly indicate as such. you're placing your unreasonably high expectations onto me. it's d1 my friend. i'm not going to have a dissertation on why two and through or mana are wolves if they are wolves.

No, not even close. I don't care that you aren't confident, and I don't care that you're preflipping, but I do care that you're doing both at once. Not having a driver's license is legal, and driving is legal, but driving without a license? Oh boy.

And no, I do not care about the number of points you've raised. I'm a firm believer in locking reads over small things with simple reasons. My point has nothing to do with depth and everything to do with the confidence that you've actually expressed in this thread. That confidence is low.

the dichotomy i'm placing between mana and two and through is based on how mana treated two and through. the slot voted two and through but in a vicarious way. you pointed out that i hedged, and that's true. to me it looks like it's too bad of a vote to be w/w, but it's not like i've seen bad w/w votes before. that's just what my gut instinct said. if wolves are going to vote on their partners, they want to look good. i also never said that they had nothing to do with each other, you're misconstruing that based on me saying "regardless of two and through's alignment". that's not the implication there. the implication is that the vote looks individually bad for mana.

Still need an answer to "why the fuck does there even need to be a dichotomy". I get that this could just be my distaste for dichotomies in general speaking, so I won't weigh this heavily or anything, but why can't it just be two wolfreads?

besides i feel like you're seeing ghosts wrt this disparity. my read on julinook is not just based on two and through being a wolf, it's also based on how they approached the read. that's villagery to me regardless of two and through's alignment. my read on mana is that some of their posts are wolfy regardless of two and through's alignment.

Yeah, obviously it's not the sole factor, or even the primary favtor, but why is it a factor at all if you're not confident on TAT?

regardless, i think the conclusion also has problems insofar as you haven't actually asked yourself why if i was a wolf i would be pre-flipping. the most obvious answer would be tmi, right? but you clearly don't seem to think that's the case based on you thinking my posts are agenda-y. so i'm just confused on where you stand on this as a whole.

"The whole thing just feels like she's putting worldbuilding in front of plain reads in an agenda'y way. Like, she's not diving headfirst all the way into either read, but she's playing with that plan in mind anyway."

Wouldn't be the first time I've seen a wolf stick to forced worldbuilding to push an agenda.

okay then this is just a case of you misjudging the strength of my two and through read and we're just done here. you keep calling my read there unconfident when that isn't true. if that was true, i wouldn't be voting for them.

[Poop Explosions]

Poop if I asked you to admit whether or not Mac has pretended to be c4 at various points in the game would you admit it

Yes

But he hasn't

[Akemi Hazelnut]

This is EXACTLY the kind of shit read you made and stood on ALL GAME in GoC.

quality of that game went up considerably once you were forced out tbh

good read, would make again

as I recall, about the time I was forced out is about the time town lost to exactly who I was saying we were going to lose to

you recall incorrectly

your dying breath was to clear Alison

anyway, your point is garbo regardless, given that we were t/t there

Neither of this is true. iirc what he said was that scum were in the people trying to distract the town by focusing on the Gambit Demon. Which doesn't clear me, but he also didn't go out screaming for my head.

[TwoAndThrough]

This is EXACTLY the kind of shit read you made and stood on ALL GAME in GoC.

quality of that game went up considerably once you were forced out tbh

good read, would make again

as I recall, about the time I was forced out is about the time town lost to exactly who I was saying we were going to lose to

you recall incorrectly

your dying breath was to clear Alison

anyway, your point is garbo regardless, given that we were t/t there

Neither of this is true. iirc what he said was that scum were in the people trying to distract the town by focusing on the Gambit Demon. Which doesn't clear me, but he also didn't go out screaming for my head.

I'm pretty sure I did point out that chopping you was a much better idea than chopping me, at the very least, lol.

[Akemi Hazelnut]

I am digging into it. I'm exploring why people who also have no opinion on "what it means" are trying to use me having no opinion on what it means as a lever to push me with. What do you think of the way that is progressing?

I think it's a reasonable take?

Like. If voting triangles don't mean anything, and Tim knows/admits that voting triangles don't mean anything, then him ostentatiously bringing it up only to have no followup reeks of scum trying to do solvey things without any actual intention to solve.

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

If this is C4 posting rn then I think Poop is town. When he was wolf in CoV, he sort of lacked any real conviction with his pushes. He had me as a scum read, and when I did a minor push back he completely dropped the read within a page.

Right for the wrong reasons. I wouldn't look at my CoV play, look at how that turned out, rand wolf in another game, and think "I should do that again".

Maybe, I don't know how easy it is to turn it off/on like a light switch. It's why meta exists.

Admittedly I have no idea what your town game is like

This Bender I'm speaking to? Sup

My towngame varies a lot, but most of the kinds of reads I made in CoV are reads I would absolutely make as town. The main difference between CoV and my town game is that I actually do something with my reads as town.

No, Im Iron man.

Spoiler: show

ok it is indeed I bender

I will let others corroborate whether this is true or not but I'll take your word for it

[TwoAndThrough]

I am digging into it. I'm exploring why people who also have no opinion on "what it means" are trying to use me having no opinion on what it means as a lever to push me with. What do you think of the way that is progressing?

I think it's a reasonable take?

Like. If voting triangles don't mean anything, and Tim knows/admits that voting triangles don't mean anything, then him ostentatiously bringing it up only to have no followup reeks of scum trying to do solvey things without any actual intention to solve.

I pointed it out because I thought it was an interesting thing.

The individual votes involved were, at that point, basically just RVS nonsense probably.

I will now admit that I had an a g e n d a.

Wanna guess what it was?

Hint, it's working.

[trans rights]

Spoiler: show

So to preflip, what do you need? Confidence, right?

on a sidenote, i think julinook is a villager for nanook's push onto two and through. it's in the sweetspot where it probably isn't a bus if two and through is a wolf and i generally like the aggression and persistence of the read

i kinda get the feeling that there's a wolf in two and through and mana. again mana's vote on two and through is kinda bad regarding of the latter's alignment. they also went into commentary mode regarding my interactions with bottom text in a wolfy way. if mana is a wolf, bottom text is probably a villager i think.

The preflip on TAT is almost a "whoops I preflipped" preflip. Like you're barely supposed to notice van's already counting TAT as a pelt.

Up to now van's regularly called that one thing TAT did wolfy, but hasn't really gone past that. She clearly isn't sure on TAT in the second quote. She's already considering Nook spewed by TAT.

The Mana preflip has all the same problems. First of all, why the fuck does there even need to be a dichotomy again, especially when she says the reads have nothing to do with each other, and then again, the preflip on the unconfident scumread. She hedged on the read when it first came up too, saying it could be TWTBAW.

The whole thing just feels like she's putting worldbuilding in front of plain reads in an agenda'y way. Like, she's not diving headfirst all the way into either read, but she's playing with that plan in mind anyway.

ooookay so i missed this post. woops. it's a villagery look at the very least.

so is the point here that i'm not diving 6 layers deep in a wolf read? i mean... that's not really my style to begin with. you're basically calling me a wolf because i started pushed on two and through for a specific reason and not much past that, which... you're suggesting that i need 10 reasons for someone to be a wolf to actually be super confident in it? i think that's pretty absurd, and absolutely not true for me personally anyways. tell me one person that has demonstrated an incredibly nuanced and multilayered read in this game so far if you can? because i can't remember one (you dont count btw). i do think two and through is a wolf currently, and my posts should clearly indicate as such. you're placing your unreasonably high expectations onto me. it's d1 my friend. i'm not going to have a dissertation on why two and through or mana are wolves if they are wolves.

the dichotomy i'm placing between mana and two and through is based on how mana treated two and through. the slot voted two and through but in a vicarious way. you pointed out that i hedged, and that's true. to me it looks like it's too bad of a vote to be w/w, but it's not like i've seen bad w/w votes before. that's just what my gut instinct said. if wolves are going to vote on their partners, they want to look good. i also never said that they had nothing to do with each other, you're misconstruing that based on me saying "regardless of two and through's alignment". that's not the implication there. the implication is that the vote looks individually bad for mana.

besides i feel like you're seeing ghosts wrt this disparity. my read on julinook is not just based on two and through being a wolf, it's also based on how they approached the read. that's villagery to me regardless of two and through's alignment. my read on mana is that some of their posts are wolfy regardless of two and through's alignment.

regardless, i think the conclusion also has problems insofar as you haven't actually asked yourself why if i was a wolf i would be pre-flipping. the most obvious answer would be tmi, right? but you clearly don't seem to think that's the case based on you thinking my posts are agenda-y. so i'm just confused on where you stand on this as a whole.

Do you have any interest in actually solving this slot, or are you just on "flip it and see"?

Because I already gave a common wolf agenda for making pre-flip reads, and you apparently didn't read that post.

It seems like you have no interest in actually "defending" your slot, since you are just dismissing or not even reading questions/observations about what you are doing.

It also seems like you aren't really interested in evaluating me, just in making sure no one listens to me.

To repeat...wolves hate to make reads day one that will commit them. If someone becomes a consensus borderline POE and the wolf laid down a town read day one that is hard for them to get out of it makes it awkward to push for the mischop. If it comes down to really needing to expand a tightening POE it is even worse. So, good wolf makes a bunch of preflip reads instead. They look "helpful" and "solvey"...but when the root of their world flips one simple "oh I was wrong there" gives them a free range reset by erasing all those awkward day one reads.

Now, I'm kind of interested in the Mana read, because you are now making it very clear that is a read you are willing to commit to regardless of my alignment. If you could expand on how that is a wolfy vote a little more that would be...well...helpful.

okay if i'm understanding this correctly you're asserting that i should be using meta for why tim isn't helpful on d1 in your post where you voted me. that's completely ridiculous. my rebuttal is that my read isn't dependent on meta and that should be obvious

meta isn't the end all be all when it comes to making reads. i recognize that you're saying that tim isn't helpful on d1, but that doesn't really mean anything to me. in my experience, tim isn't necessarily a loud voice on d1, but he's not necessarily unhelpful. he's still a high volume player regardless of alignment. if he's making all of those posts, how exactly is he being "unhelpful"? regardless of tim's meta, your posts are wolfy and i've demonstrated why. meta is a baseline, nothing more, nothing less.

people are also misjudging my confidence on my read on you, you included, and i have no idea what's been lost in translation. how has it come off that way? you're literally my strongest wolfread and i've been explaining why i've thought that for the past several hours. am i 100% confident you're a wolf? no, of course not. my d1 reads don't tend to be great ime. do i think you're a wolf? absolutely.

[Poop Explosions]

Tim doing dumb shit he doesn't believe in is entirely Tim indicative and I'm surprised I have to say this.

[trans rights]

anyways please stop saying i'm not confident that two and through isn't a wolf because it's simply untrue

i'm taking a break for now.

[trans rights]

sup

[Poop Explosions]

That being said, the whole vote triangle thing is out of the range of Timfoil for sure lol

[trans rights]

hey c4 can you talk to me about FK slot

preferably without the lens of meta because i have none

~mawile

[trans rights]

also, i remain unconvinced on BT being a villager

i dont like their handling of the seth slot and i didnt like their handling of us

it feels like they've kinda been like

faking most of their reads

~ninetales

[Poop Explosions]

hey c4 can you talk to me about FK slot

preferably without the lens of meta because i have none

~mawile

Basically, Bo is pure. Bo is always pure.

He says he doesn't want people to sign in code names, i.e. he wants to know who he's talking to, which wolves don't care about. Since he's always pure, I believe him.

Obviously it could have more to it, but yeah.

[trans rights]

hey c4 can you talk to me about FK slot

preferably without the lens of meta because i have none

~mawile

Basically, Bo is pure. Bo is always pure.

He says he doesn't want people to sign in code names, i.e. he wants to know who he's talking to, which wolves don't care about. Since he's always pure, I believe him.

Obviously it could have more to it, but yeah.

if he's always pure so you believed him was he being pure when he said he was mafia

~mawile

[Timsup2gettinserious]

hey c4 can you talk to me about FK slot

preferably without the lens of meta because i have none

~mawile

Basically, Bo is pure. Bo is always pure.

He says he doesn't want people to sign in code names, i.e. he wants to know who he's talking to, which wolves don't care about. Since he's always pure, I believe him.

Obviously it could have more to it, but yeah.

i don't care who i'm talking to

[Bottom Text]

also, i remain unconvinced on BT being a villager

i dont like their handling of the seth slot and i didnt like their handling of us

it feels like they've kinda been like

faking most of their reads

~ninetales

ninetales more like ninetails hahahahaha loser

ive already said that my read on your slot was exaggerated

my read on seth is "hahaha its seth" and i simultaneously want to policy him D1 and also let him endgame

apparently his ranges aren't literal night and day anymore but i still think they're solidly >rand V

is this fake enough for you

[trans rights]

also, i remain unconvinced on BT being a villager

i dont like their handling of the seth slot and i didnt like their handling of us

it feels like they've kinda been like

faking most of their reads

~ninetales

ninetales more like ninetails hahahahaha loser

ive already said that my read on your slot was exaggerated

my read on seth is "hahaha its seth" and i simultaneously want to policy him D1 and also let him endgame

apparently his ranges aren't literal night and day anymore but i still think they're solidly >rand V

is this fake enough for you

yes

~mawile