Fargo Mafia [Game Ends]

[staypositivefriend]

i am off work if anyone wants to chat about certain reads!

i will be mostly giving my brain a break from this game tonight, though. i did not realize that the thread would be open during the night and i like having that time to recharge & pull myself away from the game

[Hally]

i am off work if anyone wants to chat about certain reads!

i will be mostly giving my brain a break from this game tonight, though. i did not realize that the thread would be open during the night and i like having that time to recharge & pull myself away from the game

could you give me just a quick sorting of names? i’m curious how much my vague impressions line up with your view of the game

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i am off work if anyone wants to chat about certain reads!

i will be mostly giving my brain a break from this game tonight, though. i did not realize that the thread would be open during the night and i like having that time to recharge & pull myself away from the game

If you feel up to it (you've earned a break), it'd be cool to know what you think of the Marmot/fingersplints interaction. I just reviewed it up there. I know fingersplints is a read of interest to you more than most.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If this game happens to be multi-ball, Nanook and spf should be given another look. They were both suspicions I had earlier on before they claimed mason.

Quick wifomburger for the gang: this was 55 minutes to EOD. Was Marmot literally telling us he suspected those two of being on the opposing mafia team? If so, I don't care much about his read, but it would imply they're not Kansas City.

[staypositivefriend]

i am off work if anyone wants to chat about certain reads!

i will be mostly giving my brain a break from this game tonight, though. i did not realize that the thread would be open during the night and i like having that time to recharge & pull myself away from the game

could you give me just a quick sorting of names? i’m curious how much my vague impressions line up with your view of the game

sure - my very quick GTH sorting of the playerlist looks something like this:

town:
jaggedjimmyjay
alison
oddmerta
strawhenge
macdougall

lean town:
sloonei
falcon
esooa

lean-town-with-less-confidence-than-the-previous-tier:
bo knows
hally
JPIC

neutral:
nanook
fingersplints
dom
michelle

wolfy:
long con
kza
TSP
Ai Sama
tedextr

it's worth noting that:

-the revelation that we're in multiball is making me re-assess my reads in general. i have some minor concern about falcon. i want to re-evaluate sloonei/esooa to make sure that i didn't clear either of them too easily. even so, i feel relatively decent about the names in the top two tiers containing mostly villagers

i think it's likely that most of the wolves in this game are in the bottom two tiers of this list, and the rest are hidden in the upper 3

[Hally]

thanks spf

that’s not too far off from what i’ve got

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions: Marmot and Justplayingitcool

From Marmot

Spoiler: show

JPIC is reading more of the thread than he lets on which is generally towny from quote unquote LHF slots.

what?

It's obviously a leaking wolfchat.

LC was irritated as mafia in Bike. But he was also irritated as town in Fallout.

So it's NAI then

Yes, do you suspect him for other things?

I'll iso him soon

Not really other than a weird reaction to Mac's post. I suspect him less than BK and my other scum reads.

The one thing I did like about LC was his clapback to odd with the whole "Im voting for 6/8PM" thing

Can you explain your BK scumread? I don't really get that one.

Spoiler: show

can scum pls tell me they're scum to help me solve the game?

What if you're scum tho

then I'm a fool

what do you mean?

What if you're scum tho

then I'm a fool

what do you mean?

i agree i think bo scumslipped

[VOTE: boknows] aubergine

die wolf

I find people making posts ‘if the wolves can out themselves to make game easier’ is slightly wolfy.

However, i think it’s hasty to call it a scum slip rn. I just don’t really see the point in his last two posts

Skimmed through Al's ISO and was not impressed. Towards the end he made a giant read list and falcon said something like "it looks like you don't want to lynch anybody", and Al responded by saying he's not confident in his read list. If you're not confident enough in your reads why even bother making a readlist??? It seems like he made a readlist to just make a readlist.

die

- This whole interaction to start with. I didn't think much of it to start with but it just feels like random filler which seems to be a frequency of BK.
- The iso of Al felt random and forced
- his reaction to mac's cop claim was scummy and felt fake

- I don't think point one is necessarily AI. Many players fill the game with fluff and will do it as town.
- I didn't see the Al iso, but I'll look at it.
- I do agree about the Mac cop post thingy. Well sorta. I think that reaction looks more nervous than fake.

There were a couple players I wanted to ISO last night and LC was one of them.

why

I believe he had votes at the time even though he doesn't now.

My only experience of marmot is that he is silly when mafia and pretty serious when town. My sample size is only three games so I acknowledge i need more data.

I've realized this as well and am attempting to make them more consistent.

I wish I had more to say about the somewhat substantial exchange they had in there with the quote pyramid. It doesn't look especially teammate-indicative, but it's also pretty soft. One thing I appreciate for JPIC is that very last post in the spoiler. JPIC's meta assessment of Marmot had a non-zero impact upon my own view and decision to vote Marmot. Marmot's accommodating response to that meta read seems kinda schmoozy in a way that he ought not need for his own teammate. Decent look.

From Justplayingitcool

Spoiler: show

Up to page 24 now, I don’t agree with the suspicion of Jay (from TonyStarkPrime) and Alison (from staypositivefriend).
Both seem pretty townie to me right now.
TonyStarkPrime’s seems more flimsy out of the two, but I still have more to go. We’ll see

What was flimsy about it?

A few things have thrown me off from the beginning but his current vote for Marmot is something that inclines me to think that way as well. I also just don't think his iso is carrying the proper tone and I'm wondering if his read on sloonei was developed improperly. He also also seems hesistant to say things that I wouldn't usually think he'd be hesitant to say. I did like the post he made where he talked about sloonei/jay mutual TRs and how seriously they're taken or something though idk

this is probably just the usual day 1 jay tinfoil but that's where I'm at

The talk of jay’s tone and being hesitant both of which I’m not really seeing. Not really sure I understand the Sloonei comparison as a negative. They’ve always played kind of similar to me so it’s not really something I find suspicious.
I’m also not really sure I understand the Marmot vote comment. It reads to me that it’s making him also suspect marmot while simultaneously suspecting jay.

I didn't really get that from TSP's post in regards to sussing marmot from the voting comment with marmot/JJJ, it read like he suspects JJJ for voting Marmot. It's worth noting though that TSP elaborated later that he didn't have a read on Marmot.

Thanks JPIC. I’d be interested to hear more about Esooa, tedxtr, and TSP in particular.

Esooa - insistence on questioning people that townreads them makes me townread them unironically. Most mafia would take the free read then challenge it

ted - defended me in thread so it could be a bad read by me and he has pocketed me. However, i contrast his two games of his from my memory. In GoC, he tried to take charge and and wasn’t really suspected all game only for mech to out him. In MtG, he was heavily sussed all game and was a misyeet pretty early. I feel like it’s the same here

Tsp - gut read but the exchange with him and odd was peculiar a couple of pages which I didn’t really understand. His read on you which fingersplints brought up implied he had a bigger read on marmot than just null

[VOTE: marmot] aubergine

Self-voting is what GoC marmot did. Should i be concerned?

Marmot has been self-voting for years.

Did he do that in MtG? Only other game i remember from marmot was simple arsonist where we wrecked nanook

My only experience of marmot is that he is silly when mafia and pretty serious when town. My sample size is only three games so I acknowledge i need more data.

I've realized this as well and am attempting to make them more consistent.

What is this

@Justplayingitcool who mafia

BoKnows
TSP
Marmot
Odd

marmot is scummy as town and scummy as maf

Wrong. Marmot was very scummy in GoC and townie in Simple Arsonist/MtG

I'm not voting for Long Con today, his efforts look normal and believable.

I don't really get this post. LC isn't even a wagon.

There were a couple players I wanted to ISO last night and LC was one of them.

why

I believe he had votes at the time even though he doesn't now.

I don’t really remember LC being a wagon at any point tbh? Maybe I am misremembering

Having said that, wouldn’t you have adjusted checking isos based on the new wagons. Your original post just feels very out of place

[VOTE: Al] aubergine

This is the best of the current wagons.

Do you genuinely believe Al is the scummiest active wagon or is this self pres?

Also this wording implies there is someone who you'd rather see exed over Al but who isn't an active wagon. Who is it?

If this game happens to be multi-ball, Nanook and spf should be given another look. They were both suspicions I had earlier on before they claimed mason.

Wut

I’d rather yeet Bo but im not against yeeting marmot or al

There's a certain progression here that works okay for me. JPIC ended up being a somewhat vocal anti-Marmot player on Day 1, but it wasn't always that way. He seemed to work his way to that point as a product of other dialogues and suspicions, particularly those pertaining to TSP. Eventually he arrived at Marmot suspicion, augmented by such goofing as the self-vote and the unprompted Long Con defense. I think it looks the right way and doesn't smell of distancing. I'm not extremely confident on that, but it's still a pronounced lean.

"Technically compatible" but probably not teammates is my assessment.

[Hally]

i wonder if i v read michelle too easily?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i wonder if i v read michelle too easily?

I like her posts every time they happen. I wish they were more frequent.

[BoKnows]

If this game happens to be multi-ball, Nanook and spf should be given another look. They were both suspicions I had earlier on before they claimed mason.

Quick wifomburger for the gang: this was 55 minutes to EOD. Was Marmot literally telling us he suspected those two of being on the opposing mafia team? If so, I don't care much about his read, but it would imply they're not Kansas City.

The nano sus might be valid. Tbh I felt it was a little weird that nook defended me.

[Hally]

i skimmed bo’s iso in bee mafia (he was a wolf)

my impression is he seems more comfortable itt here than there. the obvious caveat is that i generally expect the wolves to be more comfortable posting knowing they can scum hunt in earnest, so take this however you want

i’m curious if the people who were in bee mafia agree with this

[staypositivefriend]

i am off work if anyone wants to chat about certain reads!

i will be mostly giving my brain a break from this game tonight, though. i did not realize that the thread would be open during the night and i like having that time to recharge & pull myself away from the game

If you feel up to it (you've earned a break), it'd be cool to know what you think of the Marmot/fingersplints interaction. I just reviewed it up there. I know fingersplints is a read of interest to you more than most.

i took a look at the interaction analysis that you did of the two, and i mostly came out of it shrugging my shoulders. i agree with you that their interactions do not look like a perfect fit, but they also aren't particularly clearing. it's the same "i have no idea what to do with this" feeling that i've been feeling about fingersplints for the entirety of the game

https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 00#p763200 < out of all the interactions that you brought up, this one looked the most to me like non-partner interaction. the way that marmot brings up al's name to fingersplints feels manipulative and focused on wifom, and fingersplint's reaction is very blunt and very short-winded. i feel like there's almost a mismatch of mindsets in that exchange - marmot going out of his way to WIFOM and manipulate, and fingersplints not paying it any mind. my GTH feeling is that this is non-partner interaction, but it's not really a read that i would bank on right now

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i skimmed bo’s iso in bee mafia (he was a wolf)

my impression is he seems more comfortable itt here than there. the obvious caveat is that i generally expect the wolves to be more comfortable posting knowing they can scum hunt in earnest, so take this however you want

i’m curious if the people who were in bee mafia agree with this

He certainly seems comfortable. And at least from the two-mafia-teams perspective, I don't think his comfortable appearance stems from the way he is hunting. He just looks comfortable in general.

[MacDougall]

Mac's Guide to Scum Hunting in a Multiball Environment

Obviously the main thing to consider in a multiball environment is that the mafia are encouraged to scum hunt. Very good wolves know that it's actually pro their win con to, as normally, kill townies and push against town but the temptation to be sincere in hunting is overwhelming so in most compositions multiball environments feature an environment where everyone is scum hunting and every push in sincere. This causes what I dub the "Syndicate 2018 GOC Effect". Because everyone is scum hunting, and the mafia factions don't have a specific goal of gaslighting and exploiting townies to push the wrong places, the general thread sentiment is much more sound than it ordinarily is. Consensus POE's are likely to be very accurate.

How to find wolves in this environment beyond just ordinary POE can seem tricky, but it's actually quite easy if you focus on solving compartmentalized teams as opposed to "just wolfy". In actuality those that tend towards solving for base level reasons as opposed to heavily focused on team building are >rand mafia in this environment.

So we have a flipped mafia, now what? Well the normal rules still apply. Marmot probably wasn't in anti spew until late so he probably wasn't pushing on his teammates much, so you can use normal rules to check for who he spews as not his teammates. What's different is you can't rely on those reads to also be town and in actuality they are more likely to be mafia than town. The flipped wolf started the game with a more sound POE when it comes to hunting the other team than we did. So his reads are a great place to start looking for wolves from the other team. When it comes to reading those that the flipped wolf defended or town read, you need to check the agenda behind it. Was he genuinely townreading that person? Because that is a thing they can actually do. Remember usually wolves can TMI a town, but they can't here. They can only have genuine townreads. What is the agenda behind the town read? Was the person under any pressure? Is there any benefit to that person's survival in the flipped wolf town reading them? If so, maybe that's a team mate.

So questions that require answering:
1. Who did Marmot push on?
2. Who that he pushed on buried him?
3. Can we build a consensus small POE (less than 5 players) and then get everyone to draw a line in the sand on how they feel about that person?
4. Who has spewed themselves town by repeatedly focusing on multiball solving since the flip
5. Did anyone spew themselves mafia by TMIing that they knew it was multiball?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i am off work if anyone wants to chat about certain reads!

i will be mostly giving my brain a break from this game tonight, though. i did not realize that the thread would be open during the night and i like having that time to recharge & pull myself away from the game

If you feel up to it (you've earned a break), it'd be cool to know what you think of the Marmot/fingersplints interaction. I just reviewed it up there. I know fingersplints is a read of interest to you more than most.

i took a look at the interaction analysis that you did of the two, and i mostly came out of it shrugging my shoulders. i agree with you that their interactions do not look like a perfect fit, but they also aren't particularly clearing. it's the same "i have no idea what to do with this" feeling that i've been feeling about fingersplints for the entirety of the game

https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 00#p763200 < out of all the interactions that you brought up, this one looked the most to me like non-partner interaction. the way that marmot brings up al's name to fingersplints feels manipulative and focused on wifom, and fingersplint's reaction is very blunt and very short-winded. i feel like there's almost a mismatch of mindsets in that exchange - marmot going out of his way to WIFOM and manipulate, and fingersplints not paying it any mind. my GTH feeling is that this is non-partner interaction, but it's not really a read that i would bank on right now

More or less agreed. Thanks.

[MacDougall]

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

Posts like this are really interesting to try to analyse.

This reads like Marmot looking at the possibility of KZA and Sloonei being teammates. It feels like a real genuine question. I don't think KZA is teammates with Marmot, nor is Sloonei. If Sloonei was his teammate it would be an unusual choice to direct his attention (in a game he was struggling to attend to) in this manner.

[MacDougall]

I think Marmot's behaviour towards KZA indicates a wolf that was trying to solve the slot and found it townie in the end tbh.

[Hally]

one thing to note is that just because wolves can hunt for the other team genuinely doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll post like villagers. marmot was genuinely trying to figure out who was on the opposite team but he was not posting like a villager and and it was readily apparent. there’s a certain mindset people get into when they have a wolf role pm that i think is separate from any scum hunting they do. when people have a wolf role pm they FEEL like they’re bad, and that should come out in their posts

what i’m saying is, the fact that this game is multiball should make us exercise caution with our reads especially for people who are good at faking a villagery tone/mindset as a wolf. but there should probably be a limit to that caution. i think often villagery people will just be villagers and we shouldn’t get toooooo paranoid, or at least not yet

[MacDougall]

I think Marmot and Nanook are aligned because of the meme red peek Marmot made on him. It came just after Marmot and Nanook had some listless back and forth. It felt like Marmot had a snap urge to put distance between them after feeling like the engagement was a little on the nose.

[MacDougall]

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

Lots of people are, why's his townread notable?

I was ISOing KZA and I noticed instances of stating a townread of Sloonei but not explanation for it.

I think it drew my attention a little more because the three of us had a lot of interactions in Fallout Mafia, and in particular, Sloonei voiced strong scumreads of each of us at one point in the game, and I was concerned that KZA was attempting to pocket him early in this game after that happened there.

This is real. Neither of them are aligned to Marmot. Certain of this.

[staypositivefriend]

In my experience, Long Con has displayed irritation when suspected either way, but the form of the irritation may be distinct. When he's mafia, the irritation is a more overt kind of rage, like someone railing against an offensive that truly threatens him. When's he's town, the irritation is a more sarcastic dismissal of everyone else, like they and the entire game of Mafia itself are all nonsense that should be treated like nonsense.

I don't know that I see much irritation at this point though.

I don't remember LC being that irritated when he was mafia in MtG

LC was irritated as mafia in Bike. But he was also irritated as town in Fallout.

marmot dancing around taking any particular stance on long con is noted

[Hally]

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

Lots of people are, why's his townread notable?

I was ISOing KZA and I noticed instances of stating a townread of Sloonei but not explanation for it.

I think it drew my attention a little more because the three of us had a lot of interactions in Fallout Mafia, and in particular, Sloonei voiced strong scumreads of each of us at one point in the game, and I was concerned that KZA was attempting to pocket him early in this game after that happened there.

This is real. Neither of them are aligned to Marmot. Certain of this.

i agree

[MacDougall]

I feel like Marmot might have spewed BoKnows his mafia partner tbh

[staypositivefriend]

I'm not voting for Long Con today, his efforts look normal and believable.

actually, i am unsure if marmot would be so blatant about protecting his partner like this. it feels like a theatrical defensive and im not sure marmot would bust out the theatre to defend his partner who was barely even under pressure

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: BoKnows] aubergine

Confirmed scum. Get him outta here!

That's something a scum would say tbh

Then my vote is in the perfect spot.

This interaction is exceedingly playful.

[Hally]

I feel like Marmot might have spewed BoKnows his mafia partner tbh

elaborate?

[Hally]

I'm not voting for Long Con today, his efforts look normal and believable.

actually, i am unsure if marmot would be so blatant about protecting his partner like this. it feels like a theatrical defensive and im not sure marmot would bust out the theatre to defend his partner who was barely even under pressure

yeah

[MacDougall]

Marmot should be where I am right now but instead I'm playing marmot and marmot is gone

ok in between where I was reading this and then this marmot showed back up but this remains true

Why should Marmot be where you're at right now? Translate

in all of the games I've played with Marmot recently where he was town, he took the position of a high posting contrarian. in fallout he got into a big fight with sloonei etc.. In this game, on the other hand, he's posted rather little (that can be explained by other factors) and while in the thread largely followed the town leaders as far as I can tell. This strikes me as off.

You may or may not have also noticed, but I've made a habit of participating very little in most of Day 0 and early Day 1 before really engaging games, mainly for my own sanity and ability to keep up with a game over multiple days.

Am I really that much of a contrarian? I wouldn't have described myself as such.

This is a response that spews TSP as unaligned to Marmot imo. It has terseness and apprehension. TSP was worrying him with the push.

[staypositivefriend]

one thing to note is that just because wolves can hunt for the other team genuinely doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll post like villagers. marmot was genuinely trying to figure out who was on the opposite team but he was not posting like a villager and and it was readily apparent. there’s a certain mindset people get into when they have a wolf role pm that i think is separate from any scum hunting they do. when people have a wolf role pm they FEEL like they’re bad, and that should come out in their posts

what i’m saying is, the fact that this game is multiball should make us exercise caution with our reads especially for people who are good at faking a villagery tone/mindset as a wolf. but there should probably be a limit to that caution. i think often villagery people will just be villagers and we shouldn’t get toooooo paranoid, or at least not yet

i absolutely agree. i was a wolf in a grueling, extremely long multiball game a couple of months ago and it was impossible for me to really replicate the type of solving that i do as town. i was always in a wolf mindset and even though i was genuinely hunting, i also felt no obligation to be correct in the same way that i do as a villager

i can only speak for myself but i imagine a similar thing happens to wolves in multiball setups - theyre still playing from a mindset that's distinct from a villager

[MacDougall]

I feel like Marmot might have spewed BoKnows his mafia partner tbh

elaborate?

Marmot pushed onto Bo a fair bit but provided no foundation for the push and it was never real, nor was he really attempting to push him he was just attempting to make it look like he was. And Bo was doing it back to him.

[Hally]

I feel like Marmot might have spewed BoKnows his mafia partner tbh

elaborate?

Marmot pushed onto Bo a fair bit but provided no foundation for the push and it was never real, nor was he really attempting to push him he was just attempting to make it look like he was. And Bo was doing it back to him.

hmmmmmm

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions: Marmot and KZA

From Marmot

Spoiler: show

What'd I miss?

Numerous micro-interactions between various pairs and trios of players that could not be effectively summarized without writing a novel. You might be well advised to try catching up with ISOs instead of forcing yourself through the thread. If you want to do that though, you do you.

My tactic in large games has been to largely ignore everything that happens until halfway through Day 1 for my own sanity. That said, town has lost every such game. I'll start with SPF and KZA isos.


Why are you voting me and why do you have 100+ posts already?

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

I don't think I have been? I'm not worried about him right now so no reason to redact the read anyway

Maybe that wasn't the right word. I saw you called him town multiple times, but I couldn't find an explanation before.

His early case on Alison seemed like a reasonable Sloonei thought even if I didn't really agree with it

This is a reasonable KZA thought.

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

Lots of people are, why's his townread notable?

I was ISOing KZA and I noticed instances of stating a townread of Sloonei but not explanation for it.

I think it drew my attention a little more because the three of us had a lot of interactions in Fallout Mafia, and in particular, Sloonei voiced strong scumreads of each of us at one point in the game, and I was concerned that KZA was attempting to pocket him early in this game after that happened there.

@Marmot die thundercat die

Give me the sweet release!

My only experience of marmot is that he is silly when mafia and pretty serious when town. My sample size is only three games so I acknowledge i need more data.

This is true based on the one game I saw him as Mafia

Which game was that?

Shadow Corridors

he was known as Thundercat, some sort of villainous alter ego of his I'm sure

Side note, since you bring this up. I wonder if @BoKnows ever realized he and I were teammates in that game.

Thundercat is a slappin bassist.

[VOTE: Oddmerta] aubergine

What are you doing?

Playing Fargo Mafia... What are you doing?

Lol I dont like this post. I do like Oddmerta here tho.

Oddmerta's behavior here isn't anything to write home about

I agree but what do you stand to gain from this comment

I'm interested in why Mac liked Oddmerta over such a simple statement.

im shaking my hips irl rn at the prospect of getting townread no cap

are you playing mafia standing up

Did you know if you sit forward in your chair while squatting on your feet, you increase your reasoning capabilities by 40%?

This interaction from the Marmot side is rather sleepy and makes me feel nothing. Their chat about Sloonei doesn't provide much insight. Perhaps Marmot was appeasing with his "This is a reasonable KZA thought" to butter KZA up. Perhaps Marmot's entire interest was to assess KZA's alignment for himself, which would be a nice thing. It's not super conclusive to me.

From KZA

Spoiler: show

Nanook hasn't spoken to me once but now I'm Maf to him so he can get OMGUS'd too

[VOTE: KZA] aubergine

whatever

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

Lots of people are, why's his townread notable?

probably because Marmot is iso'ing me first as he said instead he was going to

i am beginning to form some concerns about tutuu as well, unfortunately

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

What bothers you about these players?

I'm voting for myself in spirit

You promised me a reads list last night. I'm still very much listening to you and would greatly appreciate such a list.

JaggedJimmyJay
Falcon
Staypositivefriend
Strawhenge
MacDougall
Michelle

Esooa
Alison
TSP
Sloonei

Tedextr
Odd
Dom
Marmot
Long Con
Fingersplints
JPIC
BoKnows
Al Sama

Nanook
Tutuu
KZA

Green town, Pink towny but tinfoilable, Blue I have no idea, Red lock mafia

Green town, Pink towny but tinfoilable, Blue I have no idea, Red lock mafia

Thank you. Could you talk a little about your view of Alison? She is in a different position for you among your accusers.

I townread her for our earlier discussions but I'm feeling concerned about how she's trying to frame me as w/w with Marmot for some innocuous question

I also don't see the progression that led to her putting me as "highest chance of flipping scum" so I've asked her to talk about that

Marmot is scum. I say this with 100% accuracy.

@Marmot die thundercat die

My only experience of marmot is that he is silly when mafia and pretty serious when town. My sample size is only three games so I acknowledge i need more data.

This is true based on the one game I saw him as Mafia

[VOTE: Oddmerta] aubergine

What are you doing?

Playing Fargo Mafia... What are you doing?

Lol I dont like this post. I do like Oddmerta here tho.

Oddmerta's behavior here isn't anything to write home about

I agree but what do you stand to gain from this comment

alison - did you post the marmot case anywhere?

I suspect Marmot based on one interaction.

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

I don't think I have been? I'm not worried about him right now so no reason to redact the read anyway

Maybe that wasn't the right word. I saw you called him town multiple times, but I couldn't find an explanation before.

His early case on Alison seemed like a reasonable Sloonei thought even if I didn't really agree with it

This is a reasonable KZA thought.

This interaction markets itself as being two townies doing solving and analyzing each other. However reading through it I can't find any evidence that either of them genuinely care about exposing the other's alignments. It's a bunch of play-acting and blowing smoke up town's asses.

I don't know why I have to w/w with Marmot for answering his question which is literally all I did there but w/e

Look I'm gonna vote Marmot probably I just thought I'd offer TSP to any opportunists while I could tie the wagons

I love my stupid level 0 bait what can I say

Has this TSP wagon sneaked up to 4, or did I miss it during my school things?

I didn't sneak it in I'm just screwing around I'll be voting Marmot most likely

[VOTE: marmot] aubergine

die thundercat

The takeaway from KZA is that he shifted quite abruptly from essentially a non-read on Marmot to a tunnel on Marmot. I'd like to have a better idea of why than I do. @KZA please talk about what lead you to your "die thundercat" perspective. He'd been in your blue "no idea" pile an hour prior to that.

I don't know what to do with that. It's an event regardless and it connects the two of them. I'd say it's at least a mildly compatible relationship. I would benefit from hearing more of KZA's progression.

[Hally]

i would very much like to kill ted

does anyone object to this?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i would very much like to kill ted

does anyone object to this?

I'll see soon. I have kind of refused to entertain the groupthink there until I can dig for myself.

[staypositivefriend]

I do not feel like TSP is the right place to vote today.

Immediate vibes on these folks please:

AL_sama
Marmot
tedxtr

No read
Town
Town

[VOTE: Al] aubergine

This is the best of the current wagons.

Do you genuinely believe Al is the scummiest active wagon or is this self pres?

Also this wording implies there is someone who you'd rather see exed over Al but who isn't an active wagon. Who is it?

It is both.

I've seen reasons for both Ted and TSP to be town. Al on the other hand posted an awkward readlist yesterday and not much since then.


If this game happens to be multi-ball, Nanook and spf should be given another look. They were both suspicions I had earlier on before they claimed mason.

marmot mentioned tedxtr by name exactly 3 times

the first time was a filler comment unrelated to the gamestate

the second and third time was in the context of marmot townreading & shielding ted from the chop

it's odd to me that marmot felt the need to shield ted in spite of the fact that he ignored ted throughout the entirety of the game. marmot was very theatrical with the majority of his reads and he clearly presented them in a way that was intended to be WIFOMy - why is his treatment of ted so distinct? why hard shield him from the chop if he didn't even try to get the towncred from being "right" about him?

[MacDougall]

Interactions: Marmot and KZA

From Marmot

Spoiler: show

What'd I miss?

Numerous micro-interactions between various pairs and trios of players that could not be effectively summarized without writing a novel. You might be well advised to try catching up with ISOs instead of forcing yourself through the thread. If you want to do that though, you do you.

My tactic in large games has been to largely ignore everything that happens until halfway through Day 1 for my own sanity. That said, town has lost every such game. I'll start with SPF and KZA isos.


Why are you voting me and why do you have 100+ posts already?

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

I don't think I have been? I'm not worried about him right now so no reason to redact the read anyway

Maybe that wasn't the right word. I saw you called him town multiple times, but I couldn't find an explanation before.

His early case on Alison seemed like a reasonable Sloonei thought even if I didn't really agree with it

This is a reasonable KZA thought.

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

Lots of people are, why's his townread notable?

I was ISOing KZA and I noticed instances of stating a townread of Sloonei but not explanation for it.

I think it drew my attention a little more because the three of us had a lot of interactions in Fallout Mafia, and in particular, Sloonei voiced strong scumreads of each of us at one point in the game, and I was concerned that KZA was attempting to pocket him early in this game after that happened there.

@Marmot die thundercat die

Give me the sweet release!

My only experience of marmot is that he is silly when mafia and pretty serious when town. My sample size is only three games so I acknowledge i need more data.

This is true based on the one game I saw him as Mafia

Which game was that?

Shadow Corridors

he was known as Thundercat, some sort of villainous alter ego of his I'm sure

Side note, since you bring this up. I wonder if @BoKnows ever realized he and I were teammates in that game.

Thundercat is a slappin bassist.

What are you doing?

Playing Fargo Mafia... What are you doing?

Lol I dont like this post. I do like Oddmerta here tho.

Oddmerta's behavior here isn't anything to write home about

I agree but what do you stand to gain from this comment

I'm interested in why Mac liked Oddmerta over such a simple statement.

im shaking my hips irl rn at the prospect of getting townread no cap

are you playing mafia standing up

Did you know if you sit forward in your chair while squatting on your feet, you increase your reasoning capabilities by 40%?

This interaction from the Marmot side is rather sleepy and makes me feel nothing. Their chat about Sloonei doesn't provide much insight. Perhaps Marmot was appeasing with his "This is a reasonable KZA thought" to butter KZA up. Perhaps Marmot's entire interest was to assess KZA's alignment for himself, which would be a nice thing. It's not super conclusive to me.

From KZA

Spoiler: show

Nanook hasn't spoken to me once but now I'm Maf to him so he can get OMGUS'd too

[VOTE: KZA] aubergine

whatever

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

Lots of people are, why's his townread notable?

probably because Marmot is iso'ing me first as he said instead he was going to

i am beginning to form some concerns about tutuu as well, unfortunately

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

What bothers you about these players?

I'm voting for myself in spirit

You promised me a reads list last night. I'm still very much listening to you and would greatly appreciate such a list.

JaggedJimmyJay
Falcon
Staypositivefriend
Strawhenge
MacDougall
Michelle

Esooa
Alison
TSP
Sloonei

Tedextr
Odd
Dom
Marmot
Long Con
Fingersplints
JPIC
BoKnows
Al Sama

Nanook
Tutuu
KZA

Green town, Pink towny but tinfoilable, Blue I have no idea, Red lock mafia

Green town, Pink towny but tinfoilable, Blue I have no idea, Red lock mafia

Thank you. Could you talk a little about your view of Alison? She is in a different position for you among your accusers.

I townread her for our earlier discussions but I'm feeling concerned about how she's trying to frame me as w/w with Marmot for some innocuous question

I also don't see the progression that led to her putting me as "highest chance of flipping scum" so I've asked her to talk about that

Marmot is scum. I say this with 100% accuracy.

@Marmot die thundercat die

My only experience of marmot is that he is silly when mafia and pretty serious when town. My sample size is only three games so I acknowledge i need more data.

This is true based on the one game I saw him as Mafia

[VOTE: Oddmerta] aubergine

What are you doing?

Playing Fargo Mafia... What are you doing?

Lol I dont like this post. I do like Oddmerta here tho.

Oddmerta's behavior here isn't anything to write home about

I agree but what do you stand to gain from this comment

alison - did you post the marmot case anywhere?

I suspect Marmot based on one interaction.

I don't think I have been? I'm not worried about him right now so no reason to redact the read anyway

Maybe that wasn't the right word. I saw you called him town multiple times, but I couldn't find an explanation before.

His early case on Alison seemed like a reasonable Sloonei thought even if I didn't really agree with it

This is a reasonable KZA thought.

This interaction markets itself as being two townies doing solving and analyzing each other. However reading through it I can't find any evidence that either of them genuinely care about exposing the other's alignments. It's a bunch of play-acting and blowing smoke up town's asses.

I don't know why I have to w/w with Marmot for answering his question which is literally all I did there but w/e

Look I'm gonna vote Marmot probably I just thought I'd offer TSP to any opportunists while I could tie the wagons

I love my stupid level 0 bait what can I say

Has this TSP wagon sneaked up to 4, or did I miss it during my school things?

I didn't sneak it in I'm just screwing around I'll be voting Marmot most likely

[VOTE: marmot] aubergine

die thundercat

The takeaway from KZA is that he shifted quite abruptly from essentially a non-read on Marmot to a tunnel on Marmot. I'd like to have a better idea of why than I do. @KZA please talk about what lead you to your "die thundercat" perspective. He'd been in your blue "no idea" pile an hour prior to that.

I don't know what to do with that. It's an event regardless and it connects the two of them. I'd say it's at least a mildly compatible relationship. I would benefit from hearing more of KZA's progression.

Yeah I don't agree with your conclusion. I think KZA is never with him. I do think KZA dealt with him like a wolf though. KZA is a major suspect for being on the other team.

[MacDougall]

I think tutuu and spf are both scummy, but I'm having trouble with a world where they're teammates.

Goes without saying but this spews them not with him.

[MacDougall]

My only experience of marmot is that he is silly when mafia and pretty serious when town. My sample size is only three games so I acknowledge i need more data.

I've realized this as well and am attempting to make them more consistent.

This is another interaction that jumps out as plausible teammate chatter. Marmot did a LOT of spewing people not his teammate so when he doesn't, it immediately looks weird.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm willing to take your word for it for now, Mac. I think I've played like three multiball games ever. I usually don't sign up.

(no offense nova my dude)

[MacDougall]

My only experience of marmot is that he is silly when mafia and pretty serious when town. My sample size is only three games so I acknowledge i need more data.

This is true based on the one game I saw him as Mafia

Which game was that?

Shadow Corridors

he was known as Thundercat, some sort of villainous alter ego of his I'm sure

Side note, since you bring this up. I wonder if @BoKnows ever realized he and I were teammates in that game.

Thundercat is a slappin bassist.

Hmmm this kills the Bo read a lil.

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Oddmerta] aubergine

What are you doing?

Playing Fargo Mafia... What are you doing?

Lol I dont like this post. I do like Oddmerta here tho.

Oddmerta's behavior here isn't anything to write home about

I reckon their entire team were scum hunting in mafia chat and had confirmation biased each other into scumreading Oddmerta tbh.

[Hally]

i almost wondered if ted’s treatment of marmot is too awful for them to be teammates and that ted might try to cover his tracks more as a wolf

then i remembered how obviously aligned he looked with lc in seventh saga and have decided i don’t care and he needs to die

i think he’s someone that generally tries to powerwolf when he’s a wolf and especially with marmot’s role being very good, i expect ted would try to protect him

ted’s progression on marmot doesn’t make any sense to me. he villa reads marmot for ??? reasons and constantly pushes back on the suspicion there. then at EoD he votes marmot. i cannot find where in his iso he shifted from not wanting to kill marmot to wanting him dead. his looks like a naked attempt to grab cred once marmot was clearly dying. again, it almost feels too wolfy to be a wolf but i think he absolutely has to die

[MacDougall]

This game feels like Jay and I are mafia teammates. I wonder if anyone has made that observation yet.

I think a majority of scum rn is active

The phrasing of this post seems unusual now in light of the multiball revelation.

[MacDougall]

I'm really interested in this Oddmerta angle because if I'm right it's very likely that other wolves were also pushing him. Does anyone remember what the Oddmerta wagon looked like?

[MacDougall]

My list of 9 goes as such, and I will only expand on a player when asked/prompted.


Alison, Al Sam, nanook, tutuu, LC, Marmot, Ted, Michelle TSP

All of them please.

How would you rank those 9 names?

I can't rank them because I have no read on several of them, but the ones that I do have input on:


Nanook - slight scum
tutuu - slight scum
TSP - town

The bolded interests me. He never vocalised that prior to this.

[Sloonei]

Y’all nerds making me miss locked nights.

[staypositivefriend]

i think i'll be voting marmot over al

I could find absolutely zero direct references to Al_sama in Tedxtr's ISO

On the other hand, I could find several direct references to Marmot in Ted's ISO. Ted ISO'd Marmot and concluded that he was a villager (https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 70#p762270), and he spent a large portion of d1 defending him.

In spite of that, Ted decided to vote for the person that he had previously made a towncase on over the person that he had no direct interactions with whatsoever

Why?

[staypositivefriend]

i think i'll be voting marmot over al

I could find absolutely zero direct references to Al_sama in Tedxtr's ISO

On the other hand, I could find several direct references to Marmot in Ted's ISO. Ted ISO'd Marmot and concluded that he was a villager (https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 70#p762270), and he spent a large portion of d1 defending him.

In spite of that, Ted decided to vote for the person that he had previously made a towncase on over the person that he had no direct interactions with whatsoever

Why?

@tedxtr

please explain this when you get the chance

[Alison]

EOD suggestion to CFD Alison? What else ya got? Since she's been, and continues to be, a scum read of mine it should've come as little surprise.


How about not buying Odds "lock clear town" thats based solely off what Alison tells us?

You got something that doesn't involve Alison?


You got something real and tangible?

Okay fine I lean scum on you now for this nonsense. What do you think Alison and Odd are up to?

Alison's PR claim early really reminds me of her Champs game recently, and Odds comes to play after NF? You damn well know what I think of that.

what champs game? what are you talking about?

He is referring to GOC which was a very large game (the longest in Syndicate history) where I won as a hostile 3P by claiming benign 3P at the start of D1 and lolcatting until my win condition got fulfilled.

[MacDougall]

No with Marmot list is quite large

SPF
Jay
Esooa
KZA
Falcon
Oddmerta
Tutuu/Hally
Sloonei

None of these are ever with Marmot. The POE for that team is very smol already.