Overtime Mafia [Post-Game]

#1151

siggie, let me know where your head's at buddy

there's a very high chance i'll just straight up sheep you

still haven't re-read

#1152

Don't let yourself get AtE'd by Esooa. Remember that she wouldn't be this angry if she thought I was mafia, because that's exactly what I would do as mafia. She's angry because Wilgy claimed and outed her and now she's in desperado mode trying to take a townie with her before she dies. Remember that the mafia strongman killed a Vanilla Townie over her when she claimed doctor EOD1. Because she isn't a doctor. Remember that she's trying to claim all credit for killing Syn and try to force people to clear her for it for no reason. Remember that she's being counterclaimed by tutuu and Wilgy and wants to exe outside of the claims.

#1153

Remember that she calls my reads "dog shit" despite me having had townreads on Mac, nanook, LC and falcon - all of whom have flipped town. Remember that she specifically called my read on LC awkward and buddy-like because of the way I shielded him during D1, yet when he ends up flipping VT, she's trying to frame it as "Alison has been wrong all game". How does she know my reads are dog shit? Even if she's town and knows my read on her is wrong, that's at most 1 wrong read out of 5. Because she doesn't actually care about figuring out how accurate my reads have been - she's just throwing stuff out to make me look bad and discredit me. If I die remember these posts and refer back to them.

#1154

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:32 am Don't let yourself get AtE'd by Esooa. Remember that she wouldn't be this angry if she thought I was mafia, because that's exactly what I would do as mafia. She's angry because Wilgy claimed and outed her and now she's in desperado mode trying to take a townie with her before she dies. Remember that the mafia strongman killed a Vanilla Townie over her when she claimed doctor EOD1. Because she isn't a doctor. Remember that she's trying to claim all credit for killing Syn and try to force people to clear her for it for no reason. Remember that she's being counterclaimed by tutuu and Wilgy and wants to exe outside of the claims.

Yeah AtE like begging to be killed as in your day 2, but your point is horrible so I'll say why I'm annoyed; the worst hard claim I've ever seen has led me to another day of needing to deal with you because I cased you so hard night 1 that if I ever get night killed you are instantly outed and your only option has been continue the tunnel on me you started day 1 and dealing with 80 posts of mafia lies directly at only me is very annoying

#1155

but you know what, I'm not gonna be able to read the thread so I guess I'll just bury you again

#1156

leave the thread*

#1157

Begging to be killed is not AtE. Pretending to be a tilted townie and saying loudly that you'll leave the thread is AtE, because you're trying to get people to feel sorry for you and not vote you. Asking to be killed is not AtE because there's no emotion involved - I planned to use my flip to out you. That is me using game mechanics to produce information, and at no point did I ever try to make anyone feel guilty or bad about exeing me. I don't use AtE in games.

#1158

Remember that there are three doctor claims and Esooa is the only one who didn't make her claim while threatened with an exe, which is the ideal position for mafia to claim PR. Remember that I pressured her by asking her, repeatedly, why she's wanting to vote outside of the doctor claims, and she keeps dodging the question, calling me scum and trying to discrediting me instead of answering why it makes logical sense to exe outside of the claim pool when that's one of the first rules of mafia. If two people claim the same role, you exe between them to find out who the scum is. If there's two doctors and three people claim doctor, you exe in them to find out who the scum is. Absolutely zero response to that logic - just sitting there telling people that I'm scum, when town Esooa would be trying to figure out which of tutuu/Wilgy's claim timings are scummier.

#1159

is the only one who did*, not didn't*

#1160

I think I might have accidentally gone over post count. I apologize for that, I'll be reserving whatever posts I have left to respond to questions directed at me by people who aren't Esooa. Esooa is probably going to tell you that I'm trying to avoid engaging with her because I'm scum but I think it's very clear that I'm not afraid to engage with and thunderdome people. Tag me if you really want a response to something - I've laid my case out as clearly as possible, and I have in #1096 as well. If you're town I suggest you follow my line of reasoning and vote Esooa out.

#1161

ok i'm forcing myself to actually read this game and placing a deadline on my thoughts in 4 hours from now. buckle up.

#1162

some thought that I came upon:

assuming everybody thinks i'm town (which I think is the case), then yeeting in alison / marmot is actually the correct play.

sig is basically town, i'm town, there's one wolf in esooa, sig, tutuu ; so, mechanically, there is a wolf in alison / marmot.

if we yeet the wrong doctor today, then tomorrow we have a 50/50, whereas, if we vote for one in alison / marmot, tomorrow we have a lock on a mafia and basically can't yeet wrong so long as sig is town and didn't pull the wool in front of my eyes (he's most likely town)

#1163

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:14 am there's one wolf in esooa, sig, tutuu

esooa
dr wilgy
tutuu

*

#1164

Alison has refused to reconsider on me all game, and she's also pushed Ted all game. She's going out of her way to support insane worlds that no actual town in this game have given thought to except for the fact that Alison is constantly, constantly talking about this. She is bringing up the point that neither of us (ted, myself) are clear because mafia can bus, yet doesn't entertain the possibility that you know, maybe two mafia don't CFD onto their own mafia partner? She's consistently gone out of her way to sus Marmot as well, while leaving nothing to be said of Wilgy, who has an extremely similar posting pattern and if anything a more scummy way. The only townie she's defended as town this entire game who ends up being alive at this point is tutuu, who zero other people have wanted to kill. Her entire agenda for the whole game has been push open the PoE as much as she can, and this is perfectly in line with her being scum. I will explain these thoughts more in depth below

Her original suspicion on Ted was awful, and has been pointed out as such. She believed him to be the most opportunistic vote on my day 1 wagon when he gave a townie progression on me and was the second to vote me. Her sus on him was used in two ways, and is continued to be used in two ways: Set up a mislynch (day 1, this purpose was to lynch him for 'opportunistically' jumping on me, who she knows is town), and create suspicion (she is constantly denying any clearing factor of the CFD onto a mafia; I will explain when I explain her widening of the PoE). Since then Ted has continued to be towny, and she also fully ignores and will continue to refuse to accept something which in every other game would be a lock clear; Ted had already gotten bus credit where he is mafia partners with Syn. Ted voted Syn, Ted went off me, Ted said he found me as townie, then Ted continued this by ASKING ME TO NOT SELF VOTE which is something a mafia would never, in their life, do. They have no reason to, it means nothing, they have gotten all the bus cred they could want and more and then they follow this up by asking someone not to get a townie killed and kill a mafia instead? Alison pushing Ted, who is very towny, has killed a mafia, and has a very clearing day 1, is highly scum motivated.

Alison continues to support worlds that are beyond comprehension. Tutuu herself has pointed out, Alison is not a tin-foil player. Yet Alison begins night chat, begins d2, and continues this whole game denying time after time that killing a mafia can mean ANYTHING AT ALL for someone being more town. These are not questions you should pushing as hard as Alison is when she still also continues to have other suspicions. There was nothing clearing about Poison/Wilgy at all this game, and she never considers them as scum except to put them in "PoE," and the same applies with Marmot. Why is the first place she goes not her scum read from day 1, Marmot, who didn't vote a mafia, but Ted and myself, who did kill a mafia and showed towny thought processes? There is no world a town person is so paranoid that their only goal in mind is to push paranoia while other extremely viable avenues from their PoV are available.

Alison continues to expand the PoE. If you look at Alison's perspective as a mafia, her options are limited. They are down a member day 1, and she is strongly cased night 1. They are going to be running low on mislynches that are possible to them. Because of this, Alison has no choice but to push the tinfoil world. Alison knows that as soon as she gives up the fight of Ted/Esooa being mafia, town has auto and will eliminate her and her partner. Her only goal as mafia is to get Ted/Esooa out of the town core to open up possibilities for a win. She has spent no time questioning people who she scum leans that aren't heavily town read; why? It's because these players don't matter to a mafia. They are where she needs them to be, in the lynch pool.

Now, I say she goes out of her way to sus Marmot, but I say she ignores him the paragraph prior to this one. What do I mean by this? Alison is very directed in her own posting, which is what the paragraphs above explain. When she is questioned, however, or is answering general questions, she always goes back to Marmot. She has voted Marmot, she has not voted Wilgy. She sus'd Marmot day 1; she had no mention of Poison day 1. I won't explain this all because it requires ISO work which is menial but, she is putting Wilgy in her PoE because she must, but she constantly tries to give the idea that Marmot should be lynched before Wilgy, with no reasoning for this.

Lastly, she is constantly focused on me. This is obvious why. I cased her night 1. Her hyper focus on me specifically only makes sense in the point I brought up NIGHT ONE

THE FIRST NIGHT OF THE GAME

Alison is outed scum. She played day 1 horribly, and I lived to recognize that and push her for it. She had one option at that point, convince town I was the one who is scum here and not her. Every other point outlined so far lines up with this, every post she's made tracks to this. There is one explanation for Alison's behavior this game and it was what I said night 1: she needs to convince everyone I'm scum or she is instantly outed.

Now to defend myself. I don't really need to say much here, do I? I am a claimed doctor. I put actual effort into solving day 1, and effort into generating interactions day 1. This effort showed through in the lynch of Syn, my ability to find Ted as town, my ability to case Alison night 1, and so forth. Alison's play is scum motivated, she has nothing to give her town cred, and she lacks any decent town tells in her ISO making this very easily a scum game for her. If you look at my day 1, I had good reads. I had good reasoning and motivation behind them, I am a claimed PR, and I have killed a mafia. Not only that, but I gave a case correct enough and convincing enough that a night 1 post accurately can explain the entirety of the way this game has played out. The stretches you make to call me mafia over town are vast. The stretches you make to call Alison mafia over town are miniscule.

lynch alison

#1165

+ if alison flips scum (which is prob happening)

then esooa is probably spewed clear and we basically have auto

(again, if everybody agrees to sig / me town)

#1166

oh, another point I forgot to mention: entry post reads are bullshit and extremely easy to make up and they're the basis of most of Alisons game at the beginning

#1167

one woalf here

esooa
wilgy
tutuu

one woalf here

alison
marmot

town

siggie
me

#1168

ted I'm thinking about your argument (that you'll just auto Esooa and expose Marmot if I flip town). Accepting it means basically "I'm ready to lose to scum sig or scum ted if they've falsely cleared themselves", so I'm going to go through your ISOs and figure out if I trust you two enough. If the answer is yes, I'm ready to lose to a deepwolf in you two, then I'm willing to accept an Alison exe on the condition that you guys exe Esooa -> Marmot immediately after.

#1169

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:20 am alison you have two options, stop trying to get my exed or get exed.

bump

#1170

ok, I think it actually is optimal from ted's POV to exe me if he knows he's town and believes in clearing sig. So I'll give him a pass for voting outside the doc claims there given he can prove it's mathematically correct.

ted do you promise me that if you undergo your plan, you will turbo Esooa without hesitation when I flip green, and not let her talk you into voting tutuu or Wilgy?

#1171

the plan is made so that we have a 100% scum yeet tomorrow

not to go and potentially lose it by voting in the cop claims

(assuming you're town, obv. and also assuming sig is town)

#1172

or doc claims, whatever

if you're not scum then marmot is 100% a scum in the world where siggie is town.

simple as that.

the main point is that: if siggie town > 1 locked mafia in marmot / alison.

or we could just choose another town in marmot / alison that we 100% believe in and it'd be the same thing.

the idea is to not pick the scum in sig / alison / marmot for this plan to work. 66% shot of picking a town from there.

#1173

Yeah ok I checked sig's ISO and I'm more or less ok with losing to scum him, his tone is good. I don't really trust derpclears in endgame but since I think I've talked myself into townreading you off of incompatibility with Esooa (you'd have to have bussed her -> bussed Syn D1, which is a lot more unlikely than just bussing Syn, and she would have to have tied herself really hard to her partner despite knowing she's likely to be outed soon), and you're shielding sig as well so I should also give that credit.

I'm ok with striking a deal here, I'll vote myself and put up no further resistance to my wagon given your argument, as long as you pinky promise to not let Esooa talk her way out of an exe tomorrow. And make tutuu promise as well since you could die at night :P

#1174

voting in the doctors if we move through with this plan is basically a throw

whoever's in F3 they'll have to consider it, but marmot is always dying tomorrow if you're town.

#1175

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:39 am voting in the doctors if we move through with this plan is basically a throw

whoever's in F3 they'll have to consider it, but marmot is always dying tomorrow if you're town.

Well if we move through with this plan I'm basically gambling everything that the team is exactly Esooa/Marmot.

So in theory the order doesn't matter. I'm a little worried about Esooa pocketing tutuu and winning the endgame if that occurs though. So I'm going to just say that if I suicide myself to expose the mafia team that tutuu better not throw the endgame I set up for her

#1176

if sig is town and if we all agree to the plan

we vote whoever is alive out of Marmot / Alison at F5

and at F3 the doctors will have to battle it out. or we have one IC in me / sig alive at F3 with 2 docs. depends on what path mafia chooses.

#1177

I'm convinced. I won't put up any more resistance to my exe given ted has a plan. If I lose to scum ted/sig so be it. If I lose to tutuu voting Wilgy in F3 I might be a little annoyed, but I think tutuu is a good enough player not to fall for that.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

I will say that if you respect my legacy at all, well, I've made it clear who I've scumread throughout the game.

#1178

if we get the mafia in marmot / alison today then we have basically 3 ICs for the rest of the game too, so cheers.

#1179

Won't be checking the thread any more because I'm committed to an autosolve at this point so talking with people or whatever is kinda pointless. I'm out of posts anyway and ted knows what to say after the flip to ensure everyone is on board and coordinates and nobody throws. Very well played if ted is scum since his solve was really townie, I'll kick myself postgame if I lose to that, but given the way the game played out (LC's claim, etc.) they'll soundly deserve it. Same with sig. If Esooa manages to pocket tutuu endgame then very well played there too, she's a champ for holding out this long after exposing herself N1. Either way, this will probably be my last post for the game.

#1180

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:44 am If I lose to scum ted/sig so be it

can confirm you're not losing to me at least

sig could be scum, in which case ggs, won't feel bad about it and def not taking any blame for this game.

#1181

let me iso ted and sigurd first

#1182

fmpov its best to yeet wilgy and eso since i know im town and i kinda believe im the towniest player itg and the numbers are better (1/3 and then if wrong 1/2) is a better chance than 1/4 and then 1/3 if wrong (ignoring sig and ted's townyness, if any, and just pure number wise) but if the rest of u arent seeing it (my obvious townyness) then i should consider compromising

#1183

i'm suggesting this solve because me and sig are basically the towniest off of actual actions in thread.

all you have to do to read me is re-read EoD1 and that should help you all out.

all I have to do is to just push Mac there, and the majority of people here should realise that i'm a cocky player as scum and if I see mac being voted D1, it's basically like a doc dodge. mac could've easily died there, people weren't present at EoD and he was leading in votes (or at least equal to esooa)

the only post i gotta make is that mac hardclaimed vt and people should move off esooa regardless of her alignment. so...

#1184

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am i'm suggesting this solve because me and sig are basically the towniest off of actual actions in thread.

all you have to do to read me is re-read EoD1 and that should help you all out.

all I have to do is to just push Mac there, and the majority of people here should realise that i'm a cocky player as scum and if I see mac being voted D1, it's basically like a doc dodge. mac could've easily died there, people weren't present at EoD and he was leading in votes (or at least equal to esooa)

the only post i gotta make is that mac hardclaimed vt and people should move off esooa regardless of her alignment. so...

yeah but don't worry Alison has been here all game saying your EoD means nothing cause of (Reasons) so who knows if you're really town or not :^)))

#1185

i've done so many anti-scum actions at that EoD

I even removed my vote off of MacDougall and didn't even wanna tie it between him and Syn, when I had no incentive to remove my vote from a town there

lolz

#1186

Ok I lied I wanted to bring up one more point before I shower (don't kill me please Martin, pretend I'm taking it from my pool of night posts that won't materialize). Mac's last solve was LC/Marmot I think, and it is very rare that Mac is 100% wrong since he's a good player, so I'll pay him some respect and treat his read on Marmot scum seriously since we know LC is town.

tutuu, FMPOV knowing I am town, Esooa is a better exe too. But I think compromising is a good decision here (and you know how much I care about optimality of play), even if another outcome is more optimal with the information you have. Basically, if everyone else is on board, if you push for Esooa/Wilgy exe here, then you are essentially creating the opportunity for chaos or doubt to happen, especially in extended arguments/fights and EODs and general screaming. I think if you believe that the gamestate is nailed down that hard, then the best way to deny mafia the victory is to batten down the hatches by denying them EOD chaos that may lead to some horrific flash wagon, like exeing you. I've seen those bad flash wagons happen enough times that I'm willing to take a very slight deduction to the probabilities in exchange for making sure that doesn't happen and the endgame is conductd in an orderly and organized fashion. Besides, if everyone else has made up their minds you won't be able to convince them no matter how hard you argue, so it's best to just go with it and keep the thread as orderly as possible.

linki: I'm literally hard shielding ted and gambling the game on him being town right now so you can stop with that, Esooa.

#1187

Wow you managed to flip on an obvious town after an entire day phase of pushing him, I don't really give you a single ounce of credit

#1188

Are you reading the thread? Any cred given or not given to me doesn't matter. We're resolving my alignment the hard way. And then afterwards we're going to exe you and exe Marmot.

#1189

no, I'm making sure everyone knows you're either mafia or are mafia siding as hard as you possibly could have and I explained why that's obviously true in my wall above, because I'm not losing to you somehow being town here where you decided to try to throw the game cause you didn't like my entry post

#1190

your post soft cap is at 213 alison, and even then you can make up to 75 more posts today

and ok cool.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

at least we're all in this cahoot together and u cant all be scum. if this goes wrong it wont be my fault and thats honestly what i care about most

#1191

This is why I'm so annoyed with your play, because some things you do like this make no sense from a scum PoV but there is NO WORLD your reads aren't directly in line with every single thing a mafia could want

#1192

like, if you are town, you need to actually reconsider before EoD, because you're pretty obviously scum siding and I showed you exactly why above. You NEVER are going to be literally thunderdoming me after I am a claimed pr who killed a mafia when you have mafia in Marmot/ poison wigly

#1193

suddenly now I can be town and the wagon on me needs to be "reconsidered"

#1194

tutuu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:03 am your post soft cap is at 213 alison, and even then you can make up to 75 more posts today

and ok cool.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

at least we're all in this cahoot together and u cant all be scum. if this goes wrong it wont be my fault and thats honestly what i care about most

oh thanks! I must've miscalculated.

#1195

I'm not ever reconsidering voting you because in the world you are "town" you made this game have 4 mafia because you think an entry post you don't like is enough of a reason to suicide bomb someone

#1196

and you're absolutely and provenly awful tunnel made this entire game a fucking mess where the potential for scum marmot was never explored

#1197

So instead the only world I can possibly evaluate is you+x

#1198

i think i'm actually going for marmot here

this should've been the D2 yeet

[VOTE: Marmot ] aubergine

part of it is to twist the knife deeper into tutuu's wound if i'm right about it, because then I called out one scum on their first post and voted for them too, and then voted for another at EoD1. so basically 2 pelts.

and tutuu pushed me for it.

#1199

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:09 am i think i'm actually going for marmot here

this should've been the D2 yeet

[VOTE: Marmot ] aubergine

part of it is to twist the knife deeper into tutuu's wound if i'm right about it, because then I called out one scum on their first post and voted for them too, and then voted for another at EoD1. so basically 2 pelts.

and tutuu pushed me for it.

can u actually read/comment on my Alison post before doing this

#1200

if tutuu is scum / if marmot is town then that post doesn't exist btw

Who will be eliminated?