Radiohead Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Alison]

okay fine I'll do it you lazy bums. reposting juliets' list for convenience

Alison - Cop (N1 TSP green, N2 nanook green, N3 LC green) Green does not mean they aren't 3P

TSP - X Shot Doctor, 1-Shot Vig (N2 shot JPIC, N3 holster)

Wilgy - Conditional Tracker/Random "Watcher" (N1 one person visited ted, N2 JPIC visited tutuu, N3 - TSP visited by info role)

dyachei - Tracker (N1 nanook visited Mac, N2 ted visited nanook, N3 Herm visited MR)

Dizzy - X Shot Conditional Tracker (N1 ted visited Tim, N2 didn't meet the conditions, N3 Samu visited tutuu)

juliets - X Shot Non-Civillian, Non-Lethal Rolestopper (N1 Alison, N2 holster, N3 MR)

Herm - "Song Cop" (N1 Amnesiac no result, N2 Kid A no result, N3 King of Limbs) [Knows mafia role cop is In Rainbows because of Poison]

Long Con - 3 Shot Mutual Voteblocker, N3 targeted Radishes

MacDougal - ??? (Roleclaiming not allowed, but role "isn't strong")

nanook - Conditional Doublevoter (N1 visited Mac to fulfil his condition, N2 forgot to send in an action, N3 targeted Alison)

Oddmerta - ??? (Roleclaiming not allowed, but isn't a vigilante)

Poison Chan - Rolecard Investigative (not sure of the specifics, but gets given a role card with alignment and song that exists in the game every night, but isn't told who the role card belongs to)(N1 checked Nude =mafia role cop, N2 checked Codex=full role card, N3 lie detected Dr. Wilgys song claim = true)

Samusamu - Song Voyeur, can only infodump if you hit no result (N1 no result on Poison Chan, N2 has a result and isn't allowed to infodump it, N3 visits tutuu and sees 2 songs, 1 of which is a mafia song) [@Samusamu do you only get the song name, or do you get other pieces of information about the song like the lyrics? You can tell me if you aren't allowed to answer this.]

SPF - ??? [@staypositivefriend did you make a claim? You're locktown so you don't have to if you don't want to, but if you did let me know and I'll record it.]

tedxtr - Vote Manipulation Nullifier (N1 Tim, N2 nanook, corroborated by trackers, Dizzy N1 and dyachei N2, N3 Nanook)

tutuu - Jailkeeper/Rolestopper (N1 Alison, N2 Hally, N3 attempted Alison power did not go through)

[MacDougall]

SPF has claimed to not be able to claim

[staypositivefriend]

here's the plan, folks:

use ur powers on the mafia

[Dyslexicon]

Alison, why do you think you can claim results as a cop, while Hally, the watcher, couldn't?

[Alison]

THE PLAN
Alison investigates someone of her choosing. She's not saying who.

TSP doctors someone of his choosing. He can also choose to holster if for some reason he really thinks it's correct. Or if he's out of shots.

Wilgy tracks Oddmerta if he can. Watcher is random otherwise, or so he says anyway.

dyachei and Dizzy track whoever they want to. Would suggest a track POE of, say, {Oddmerta, Samusamu, Wilgy, nanook} or some such. If you have a better idea go with it, I trust y'all to have smart ideas.

juliet uses her ability on one of the investigative roles (Cop or Tracker) at her discretion if she has shots left.

Herm is who we're executing today and won't be able to use their ability.

Long Con and nanook are requested to holster tonight. If you are tracked, any action you perform may be used against you in court. nanook I know you are cop cleared but people have brought up godfather and also you can be the 3P doing nefarious things. Let's face it, your doublevote isn't a real ability because we have enough confirmed townies to drive huge thread consensus. So just stay home please.

MacDougall and SPF have mystery abilities so they do whatever they want. I trust them so just do whatever.

Oddmerta has a mystery ability. I can't tell you what to do because your ability is mysterious. But be aware that you may be tracked, so if you are town, weigh the possibility of being framed by a bad-looking track versus the value your ability generates for town.

Poison-Chan... I'm not really sure what the best thing for Poison-Chan is to do. I don't really know how the second part of your role works, so... uh.... I kinda trust you so just do whatever? If you really feel stuck and don't know what to do tell me again how your role works and suggest some possibilities and we can talk about it.

Samusamu, I suggest you voyeur tutuu so we can figure out what the fuck is going on with the abilities people try to use on her.

ted, check for vote manipulation on I think tutuu, we don't want people to do funny things to her and there's already been evidence of weird shit happening around her.

tutuu, use your ability on me.

The main weakness I see in this plan is that it gives ted and Samu an excuse to be tracked to me if tutuu dies. But if tutuu dies then we get another day of investigatives doing their things. So sure.

[MacDougall]

Nah you don't want trackers doubling up on people, doubling up on the cop check etc. It's important to plan for that reason. Squeeze them into only firing at a limited number of people.

Alison getting shot is not the worst thing for us because it confirms three town. I think that alone should be enough to keep the mafia from firing at her tbh. But if Tutuu wants to shoot there so be it. I think the better protection pool are protecting her three clears. I am ready to die and you can't create a large pool of people not to fire into and I'd rather protect Alison's clears and leave Alison uncovered to make the mafia choose between letting her get another check or confirming all three of her checks or firing at me or someone else.

As for the rest of the plan, just don't double check anyone that's all.

[dyachei]

well i wont target whoever dizzy votes mac

[Alison]

Alison, why do you think you can claim results as a cop, while Hally, the watcher, couldn't?

No clue. Here are some possibilities.

1) Roles are given roleclaim restrictions more or less at random and it's not AI. For instance, Mac has heavily implied that his role is weaker than a tracker, but both trackers are able to claim and do whatever they want. Some song investigatives are free to claim (PC) while others aren't (Samusamu). They can't all be scum, so maybe it's just random or arranged in an undecipherable pattern.

2) The power of my role is balanced out by the unbelievability of the fact that I don't have a roleclaim restriction if I claim. (We have some evidence of Sloonei putting in roles that contain ways to make someone look bad even if they are town, like nanook being incentivized to put himself in a situation where he can be tracked to the kill.)

3) Sloonei has 500 IQ and has painstakingly calculated which roles can be allowed to infodump/roleclaim without breaking the game, and mine is not one of them but Hally's is. I'm sure there will be some people who will come in and tell you that Watcher is a stronger role than Cop that can't catch 3P in a closed setup, for instance.

4) Maybe Sloonei thought the fact that mafia are told who I check each night is enough of a balance to it?

[Alison]

Nah you don't want trackers doubling up on people, doubling up on the cop check etc. It's important to plan for that reason. Squeeze them into only firing at a limited number of people.

Alison getting shot is not the worst thing for us because it confirms three town. I think that alone should be enough to keep the mafia from firing at her tbh. But if Tutuu wants to shoot there so be it. I think the better protection pool are protecting her three clears. I am ready to die and you can't create a large pool of people not to fire into and I'd rather protect Alison's clears and leave Alison uncovered to make the mafia choose between letting her get another check or confirming all three of her checks or firing at me or someone else.

As for the rest of the plan, just don't double check anyone that's all.

I did give them a track POE, which I think has a good balance between "limit the options" and "don't let the mafia know exactly what we're up to and who to carry the kill".

[MacDougall]

As far as I'm concerned Tutuu should be choosing between LC, Nanook and TSP. Aside from that I don't particularly care what happens beyond nobody doubling up.

[Alison]

Maybe the protection pool for TSP and tutuu should be the Trackers and all the people I've investigated then? Like I think you should be able to trust my checks regardless but if you're paranoid then fine.

[Alison]

As far as I'm concerned Tutuu should be choosing between LC, Nanook and TSP. Aside from that I don't particularly care what happens beyond nobody doubling up.

Surely we trust the Trackers enough that we're fine if the mafia shoot a green checked townie with some useless ability over a Tracker?

[Alison]

Also I thought a bit about whether or not Godfather is bastard in a closed setup and I think it depends on context. I don't think it's great because it leads to clown fiesta games, but if you sufficiently hint or communicate that not all checks can be accurate, then it's probably not bastard. (Whether or not it leads to good or fun games is a different story, but it isn't bastard if you communicate in some way that there's a Godfather in play.) If it's totally unhinted, you let the cops believe their checks are real, and then you add in a Godfather or two, that can be bastard.

[MacDougall]

Maybe the protection pool for TSP and tutuu should be the Trackers and all the people I've investigated then? Like I think you should be able to trust my checks regardless but if you're paranoid then fine.

This is nothing to do with paranoia. I do trust your checks, that's why I want them alive. I think you're protected to a degree by the fact that:

a) They will need to clear me to win as well and they have no idea what role I have
b) Killing you takes away all the tinfoil on three players, and leaves me alive

TSP can put his threat onto the trackers sure but Tutuu needs to protect your checks imo.

If Herm flips mafia, then you will get shot with this plan because the mafia will effectively just give up.

If Herm flips town, the mafia will probably play this game out taking you to endgame for tinfoil.

[MacDougall]

As far as I'm concerned Tutuu should be choosing between LC, Nanook and TSP. Aside from that I don't particularly care what happens beyond nobody doubling up.

Surely we trust the Trackers enough that we're fine if the mafia shoot a green checked townie with some useless ability over a Tracker?

I think you're missing the point. I don't care about what roles they have, having three absolute confirms in this game is going to win us the game.

[Dyslexicon]

Alison, why do you think you can claim results as a cop, while Hally, the watcher, couldn't?

No clue. Here are some possibilities.

1) Roles are given roleclaim restrictions more or less at random and it's not AI. For instance, Mac has heavily implied that his role is weaker than a tracker, but both trackers are able to claim and do whatever they want. Some song investigatives are free to claim (PC) while others aren't (Samusamu). They can't all be scum, so maybe it's just random or arranged in an undecipherable pattern.

2) The power of my role is balanced out by the unbelievability of the fact that I don't have a roleclaim restriction if I claim. (We have some evidence of Sloonei putting in roles that contain ways to make someone look bad even if they are town, like nanook being incentivized to put himself in a situation where he can be tracked to the kill.)

3) Sloonei has 500 IQ and has painstakingly calculated which roles can be allowed to infodump/roleclaim without breaking the game, and mine is not one of them but Hally's is. I'm sure there will be some people who will come in and tell you that Watcher is a stronger role than Cop that can't catch 3P in a closed setup, for instance.

4) Maybe Sloonei thought the fact that mafia are told who I check each night is enough of a balance to it?

1. Meh

2. Nah

3. Nah (but Sloonei goat)

4. I didn't even know they did. That's weird lol.

HMMMMMMMMM

[Alison]

In this game in particular, I think there is enough evidence that checks are not always accurate and shouldn't be 100% trusted (sprityo, the fact that I can't find 3P, warning against infodumping in the first post, possible redirector?) that it's fine to have a Godfather in this game. I don't think I'm going to strongly consider the possibility of a Godfather yet but if god forbid there was one I'm not going to say it's bastard.

(GTH I don't think there's one just because it seems lame to give the town investigatives and then give the mafia sprityo + a Godfather.)

[MacDougall]

Also I thought a bit about whether or not Godfather is bastard in a closed setup and I think it depends on context. I don't think it's great because it leads to clown fiesta games, but if you sufficiently hint or communicate that not all checks can be accurate, then it's probably not bastard. (Whether or not it leads to good or fun games is a different story, but it isn't bastard if you communicate in some way that there's a Godfather in play.) If it's totally unhinted, you let the cops believe their checks are real, and then you add in a Godfather or two, that can be bastard.

I don't think the Mafia have a Godfather. I think Sprityo covered that base for them.

[Dyslexicon]

I slightly want to Track Alison =p

[Alison]

As far as I'm concerned Tutuu should be choosing between LC, Nanook and TSP. Aside from that I don't particularly care what happens beyond nobody doubling up.

Surely we trust the Trackers enough that we're fine if the mafia shoot a green checked townie with some useless ability over a Tracker?

I think you're missing the point. I don't care about what roles they have, having three absolute confirms in this game is going to win us the game.

Yeah, my point is that the trackers are like 90% confirm or whatever, and I think it's reasonable to value a 90% confirmed town with a track over a 100% confirmed "VT"?

Like if I'm in endgame and I have to gamble the game on the fact that dyachei or Dizzy is town I will, so they're almost like green checked in my eyes. Also they have individually less 3P equity than the "VT"s, and my check doesn't cover 3P.

[Alison]

Also I thought a bit about whether or not Godfather is bastard in a closed setup and I think it depends on context. I don't think it's great because it leads to clown fiesta games, but if you sufficiently hint or communicate that not all checks can be accurate, then it's probably not bastard. (Whether or not it leads to good or fun games is a different story, but it isn't bastard if you communicate in some way that there's a Godfather in play.) If it's totally unhinted, you let the cops believe their checks are real, and then you add in a Godfather or two, that can be bastard.

I don't think the Mafia have a Godfather. I think Sprityo covered that base for them.

yea, that's what I said in my last parenthesis.

[MacDougall]

As far as I'm concerned Tutuu should be choosing between LC, Nanook and TSP. Aside from that I don't particularly care what happens beyond nobody doubling up.

Surely we trust the Trackers enough that we're fine if the mafia shoot a green checked townie with some useless ability over a Tracker?

I think you're missing the point. I don't care about what roles they have, having three absolute confirms in this game is going to win us the game.

Yeah, my point is that the trackers are like 90% confirm or whatever, and I think it's reasonable to value a 90% confirmed town with a track over a 100% confirmed "VT"?

Like if I'm in endgame and I have to gamble the game on the fact that dyachei or Dizzy is town I will, so they're almost like green checked in my eyes. Also they have individually less 3P equity than the "VT"s, and my check doesn't cover 3P.

I don't think they're 90% confirmed. In fact I think there is always at least 1 mafia inside these three tracker claims.

[Alison]

I slightly want to Track Alison =p

y tho

I gave you a good POE

are you this paranoid of me when there is strong mech evidence that I'm not 3P or mafia and there are actual people with high scum equity waiting to be tracked

[MacDougall]

Ted voting noone and Oddmerta voting Nanook makes me think that neither of them are town frankly.

[Alison]

I don't think they're 90% confirmed. In fact I think there is always at least 1 mafia inside these three tracker claims.

Well I think it is probably Wilgy. I agree 3 tracker claims is... a lot for town, but is there any other reason you believe Dyachei and Dizzy have a wolf in them?

[Alison]

Ted voting noone and Oddmerta voting Nanook makes me think that neither of them are town frankly.

that is why I told them to stay home, so they don't have an excuse if they're caught visiting people.

[MacDougall]

Oddmerta holding this Nanook vote makes me think that he's mafia and knows Herm and Wilgy aren't.

Ted is just probably 3p.

[Alison]

Oddmerta holding this Nanook vote makes me think that he's mafia and knows Herm and Wilgy aren't.

Ted is just probably 3p.

why the oddmerta read?

[MacDougall]

I don't think they're 90% confirmed. In fact I think there is always at least 1 mafia inside these three tracker claims.

Well I think it is probably Wilgy. I agree 3 tracker claims is... a lot for town, but is there any other reason you believe Dyachei and Dizzy have a wolf in them?

Dyslexicon was in the POE before the claim. He only has the claim going for him. The claim hasn't been tested and Dyslexicon hasn't been cleared through any other means.

[Alison]

surely mafia oddmerta just sits around and shitposts today and lets herm swing

[MacDougall]

Oddmerta holding this Nanook vote makes me think that he's mafia and knows Herm and Wilgy aren't.

Ted is just probably 3p.

why the oddmerta read?

Why is Oddmerta voting for one of your clears and not the guy tracked to the kill?

[Dyslexicon]

I slightly want to Track Alison =p

y tho

I gave you a good POE

are you this paranoid of me when there is strong mech evidence that I'm not 3P or mafia and there are actual people with high scum equity waiting to be tracked

Who has the hight scum equity?

I have little idea about what's going on in general. It just strikes me that it's very weird to have a cop that can info dump and other roles like watcher who can't. I also think it makes somewhat sense for town to have different x-shot abilities like tracking and watching like we've seen and not have a cop at all. Your role seems to be the odd one out in a way. I don't know what mech evidence you're referring to.

[MacDougall]

surely mafia oddmerta just sits around and shitposts today and lets herm swing

What does it look like he's doing Alison?

[Alison]

I don't think they're 90% confirmed. In fact I think there is always at least 1 mafia inside these three tracker claims.

Well I think it is probably Wilgy. I agree 3 tracker claims is... a lot for town, but is there any other reason you believe Dyachei and Dizzy have a wolf in them?

Dyslexicon was in the POE before the claim. He only has the claim going for him. The claim hasn't been tested and Dyslexicon hasn't been cleared through any other means.

that would be a super weird claim to fake though, but I guess it did get Tim wrongly exed so maybe. I should probably give dizzy's scum game enough credit to fake this claim and go deep off it, but I don't think their "I'm not paying attention to the game" routine was faked and I also don't think they can come up with this kind of fakeclaim if they aren't paying attention.

[Alison]

surely mafia oddmerta just sits around and shitposts today and lets herm swing

What does it look like he's doing Alison?

why vote nanook then? why not just lock his vote on herm, or hell, not vote at all?

I'm not saying that oddmerta can never be mafia, we're at the stage of the game where I have to consider it - but I'm asking why him leaving his vote on nanook specifically is AI to you.

[Dyslexicon]

Dyslexicon was in the POE before the claim. He only has the claim going for him. The claim hasn't been tested and Dyslexicon hasn't been cleared through any other means.

I mean, if Samu confirms that he visited Tutu, my claim is tested. Or I track someone who will definitely visit someone this night as well and share who they visit before they do. Meh. I'm town in your face.

[MacDougall]

If Herm is mafia the other mafia is likely between Ted and Oddmerta because it is pertinent for them to effectively holster their decision to the last minute so that they can get max impact out of it.

If Herm is town the other mafia is likely between Ted, Oddmerta or a Wilgy voter because Mafia usually prefer to not have their hands dirty on town votes. That is basic TMI and works all the time. I can show you dozens of examples where mafia sit off misyeet wagons on their own or with a very small volume of town.

[MacDougall]

surely mafia oddmerta just sits around and shitposts today and lets herm swing

What does it look like he's doing Alison?

why vote nanook then? why not just lock his vote on herm, or hell, not vote at all?

I'm not saying that oddmerta can never be mafia, we're at the stage of the game where I have to consider it - but I'm asking why him leaving his vote on nanook specifically is AI to you.

They are the two people outside the two wagons. That is >rand anti-town. I see it all the damn time.

[staypositivefriend]

i have a similar concern about oddmerta if herm flips town. oddmerta has claimed that herm is "lock town" town from his POV, because he got notified when herm investigated his album. this is wrong on multiple levels:

1. why does oddmerta consider herm locktown when getting informed of an investigation by herm is non-alignment indicative?

2. if oddmerta does consider herm locktown, why is he not fighting in the slightest to change the votes? why has he lazily let the herm chop happen?

[Alison]

I slightly want to Track Alison =p

y tho

I gave you a good POE

are you this paranoid of me when there is strong mech evidence that I'm not 3P or mafia and there are actual people with high scum equity waiting to be tracked

Who has the hight scum equity?

I have little idea about what's going on in general. It just strikes me that it's very weird to have a cop that can info dump and other roles like watcher who can't. I also think it makes somewhat sense for town to have different x-shot abilities like tracking and watching like we've seen and not have a cop at all. Your role seems to be the odd one out in a way. I don't know what mech evidence you're referring to.

I can't be 3P because I've townsided too hard, and I'll draw a nightkill if I claim cop proactively so early in the game, which I did. It compels me to fake a check every night for the rest of the game and frankly I'll probably POE myself out of the game if I check too many people.

I can't be mafia because I wiped out half the mafia team and then ate the mafia kill N1 (N1 kill was missing, only protective claims were on me, and there is no other reasonable explanation for the N1 kill being missing other than the 3P roleblocker blind firing into the mafia who carried the kill or something stupid)

[Dyslexicon]

I fake claimed tracker because I'm psychic, so I would be able to guess who people visit anyway, and also I just really, really wanted to get Tim yeeted. That was my whole life goal. This is my story.

[MacDougall]

Dyslexicon was in the POE before the claim. He only has the claim going for him. The claim hasn't been tested and Dyslexicon hasn't been cleared through any other means.

I mean, if Samu confirms that he visited Tutu, my claim is tested. Or I track someone who will definitely visit someone this night as well and share who they visit before they do. Meh. I'm town in your face.

Explain how? Nothing about Samu's role actually makes a lick of sense to me and i don't understand any of his posts.

[Alison]

surely mafia oddmerta just sits around and shitposts today and lets herm swing

What does it look like he's doing Alison?

why vote nanook then? why not just lock his vote on herm, or hell, not vote at all?

I'm not saying that oddmerta can never be mafia, we're at the stage of the game where I have to consider it - but I'm asking why him leaving his vote on nanook specifically is AI to you.

They are the two people outside the two wagons. That is >rand anti-town. I see it all the damn time.

no, I mean:

what does scum oddmerta gain from voting nanook, over voting herm or voting wilgy?

I'm not saying oddmerta wouldn't have scum equity if he had voted wilgy or herm. But I'm questioning why he has more scum equity, or how it benefits him, to do this weird vanity vote on nanook.

[Dyslexicon]

Ok, Alison. I guess.

So I'm still tracking Wilgy?

[MacDougall]

i have a similar concern about oddmerta if herm flips town. oddmerta has claimed that herm is "lock town" town from his POV, because he got notified when herm investigated his album. this is wrong on multiple levels:

1. why does oddmerta consider herm locktown when getting informed of an investigation by herm is non-alignment indicative?

2. if oddmerta does consider herm locktown, why is he not fighting in the slightest to change the votes? why has he lazily let the herm chop happen?

Can we like actually test this Herm claim.

Herm reckons that he's tracked x, y, z albums and townies get notified when that happens.

Alison says that she didn't get notified when he did that.

Oddmerta is the only one who has claimed to have been notified?

He hasn't scanned my album yet so I can't verify it. Does anyone else have songs from the records he's scanned and has not been notified? Can it be this simple?

[MacDougall]

surely mafia oddmerta just sits around and shitposts today and lets herm swing

What does it look like he's doing Alison?

why vote nanook then? why not just lock his vote on herm, or hell, not vote at all?

I'm not saying that oddmerta can never be mafia, we're at the stage of the game where I have to consider it - but I'm asking why him leaving his vote on nanook specifically is AI to you.

They are the two people outside the two wagons. That is >rand anti-town. I see it all the damn time.

no, I mean:

what does scum oddmerta gain from voting nanook, over voting herm or voting wilgy?

I'm not saying oddmerta wouldn't have scum equity if he had voted wilgy or herm. But I'm questioning why he has more scum equity, or how it benefits him, to do this weird vanity vote on nanook.

They get nothing out of it. It's bad play. But they do it all the time.

[Alison]

i have a similar concern about oddmerta if herm flips town. oddmerta has claimed that herm is "lock town" town from his POV, because he got notified when herm investigated his album. this is wrong on multiple levels:

1. why does oddmerta consider herm locktown when getting informed of an investigation by herm is non-alignment indicative?

2. if oddmerta does consider herm locktown, why is he not fighting in the slightest to change the votes? why has he lazily let the herm chop happen?

tbf you thought it was AI at first too so 1) isn't necessarily the case

2) is why oddmerta is scum (well, other than the fact that the non-checked POE is shrinking by the day), and why he's in the tracker/cop POE.

[Dyslexicon]

Explain how? Nothing about Samu's role actually makes a lick of sense to me and i don't understand any of his posts.

I can't explain that. But I know for a fact that Samu visited Tutu.

I don't know if he confirmed or just implied it. I don't know why he wouldn't confirm, I've shared it, so it's not a secret. This is why Tutu thinks Samu could be roleblocker.

[staypositivefriend]

i have a similar concern about oddmerta if herm flips town. oddmerta has claimed that herm is "lock town" town from his POV, because he got notified when herm investigated his album. this is wrong on multiple levels:

1. why does oddmerta consider herm locktown when getting informed of an investigation by herm is non-alignment indicative?

2. if oddmerta does consider herm locktown, why is he not fighting in the slightest to change the votes? why has he lazily let the herm chop happen?

Can we like actually test this Herm claim.

Herm reckons that he's tracked x, y, z albums and townies get notified when that happens.

Alison says that she didn't get notified when he did that.

Oddmerta is the only one who has claimed to have been notified?

He hasn't scanned my album yet so I can't verify it. Does anyone else have songs from the records he's scanned and has not been notified? Can it be this simple?

herm amended his claim earlier today to say that he only notifies ~one~ towny when he investigates the album they are on, which is a big part of the reason i fos him

[MacDougall]

The temptation for mafia to just avoid misyeet wagons is too great. I am not saying that it's good optimal play, I am saying that it happens all the time.