Radiohead Mafia [GAME OVER]

[nutella]

ok actually going to sleep now I look forward to 1000 more posts in the morning

[tutuu]

u guys should know that spf is amazing as wolf. she is amazing as town too as proven by her champs games but on em she has like a 54% winrate as mafia last time i checked (which at least imo is huge, i have like 25% winrate as mafia, its rly hard to wolf in those setups) and i remember skimming a few of her games once and like, her tone, her emotions, everything, its all there. like if she is a wolf she wouldnt just roll over and die, just saying!

i appreciate the flattery. i think i have a pretty good scumgame. it's still not very clear why you think im wolf, though

other way around, im wary to townread u for anything, thats all

[MacDougall]

nanook can be scum for this Hally push tbh

I've been thinking back and forth about it, I hated it on first sight but I didn't want to be biased and automatically scumread someone just because he scumreads my townread. But I was thinking about the way wagons were forming and how Mac helped a lot in consolidating the wagons, and his vanity wagon on Hally seriously stuck out to me. I think he's hiding there because there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding nutella/SPF/JPIC/whoever and he doesn't want to take a stance on his buddy until it becomes clearer which way the wind is blowing.

I think I'm down for a nook wagon as well.

I'm not sure it doesn't make him obvious town actually.

Why would a mafia manufacture this unless specifically all the main wagons are mafia? What benefit to going after Hally of all people? From a position of vulnerability in the POE especially.

I will add that it came after I saw a post Hally made than made me sceptical of her too so the timing was somewhat of a mindmeld.

I appreciate how you and I have been quoting the same posts and forming exact opposite reads off them the entire game, Mac.

I'll put the nook suspicion on the back burner for now. It's not happening today anyway. The response I have is that if it's like one mafia and two town in the mix of people who could die, he doesn't want to get caught on the wagon of the dead townie especially if he's already in the POE, but he doesn't want to bus and potentially help exe a buddy unless he really has to either. Hiding on vanity wagons in a contentious wagon situation is definitely a scummy move. Ted did it last game.

I would say it's not very contentious right now though. He could choose to do all manner of things. Pushing on a consensus town mid catch up off what seems to be a random spark doesn't feel like the mindset I expect of mafia nook.

[Alison]

Regarding Nanook I tend to read him well. Nanook makes activity. If that activity lacks self preservation it's >rand town.

ok.

How much would you be up for a JPIC wagon today? I'm shocked he doesn't have more votes and the way pressure has vanished off him is bad. He's done scummy stuff and then unabashedly done basically nothing in response to multiple attempts to get people to do things.

It's like a policy exe, except it actually has a high chance of hitting scum!

[Alison]

I think it's coming down to JPIC/SPF/nutella and my preference for those wagons is something like JPIC > SPF > nutella.

[tutuu]

i think not wagoning JPC for 1 day to see if he gets vigged or poisoned or dayvigged has merits but dont wanna insist any more

at least nutella and spf and whoever else are gonna defend themselves and hvae reactions and talk and stuff

while JPIC wont talk, so using our yeet on him is like as if ... like u know ... waste opportuntity to make reads / day play, and ujst convert the yeet into a mechnical vig

[staypositivefriend]

u guys should know that spf is amazing as wolf. she is amazing as town too as proven by her champs games but on em she has like a 54% winrate as mafia last time i checked (which at least imo is huge, i have like 25% winrate as mafia, its rly hard to wolf in those setups) and i remember skimming a few of her games once and like, her tone, her emotions, everything, its all there. like if she is a wolf she wouldnt just roll over and die, just saying!

i appreciate the flattery. i think i have a pretty good scumgame. it's still not very clear why you think im wolf, though

other way around, im wary to townread u for anything, thats all

there's a difference between being wary to townread someone and being willing to vote them on d1, right? the latter implies that they did something scummy

[Justplayingitcool]

People say I have done scummy stuff when this is literally what I do as town

[MacDougall]

Regarding Nanook I tend to read him well. Nanook makes activity. If that activity lacks self preservation it's >rand town.

ok.

How much would you be up for a JPIC wagon today? I'm shocked he doesn't have more votes and the way pressure has vanished off him is bad. He's done scummy stuff and then unabashedly done basically nothing in response to multiple attempts to get people to do things.

It's like a policy exe, except it actually has a high chance of hitting scum!

JPIC gives me little reason to defend him. I have reservations because of that. He too lacks having made any effort to appear town. He would be doing a serious disservice to his team.

I'd much rather consolidate onto Tedxtr who profiles exactly how I expect a mafia to play here after catching heat from me. I still think Nutella is likely a hit because her worldview is so opposite to mine.

I also think Nutella/Juliets has high chance to be t/w. Very high. I'd probably turbo Juliets if I knew nut was town. If there's one person I'd trust to read Juliets it's her.

[tutuu]

[mention]tedxtr[/mention] in dvc chat last game u said how u were a god at reading LHF players and stuff, and how ppl get it wrong all the time, and u need to play in a game to show us how to do it

surely JPIC's alignment is clear to u rn?

[Alison]

I think I'd vote nutella over ted if those are the wagons you want. What makes you think nutella is super good at reading juliets?

[Poison]

Odd has normal NAI fluffs early on and he asks a few questions here and there. he has been mostly on tim, and was continuously asking about tim to others, nothing wrong with it but I think he is a very experienced player and I have seen him doing more than that. what i find odd about odd is how his suss on tim kinda vanished in between and in a post asked by samu he said he'd investigate spf, kill JPIC, and protect hally. no mentions of tim. he threw a a few little reads in between but idk i cannot like them even if i try. i don't really like their progression tbh, idk if it's tonally or if their content is not something which meets my expectations yet, cause i have seen him being great and playing great as town. but tbh I don't see any post from them which can't be made by a scum.

I would have null read this slot, but I also don't like how they are getting cleared by others when they aren't that towny. might be astupid way to look at stuff but this just doesn't fit well with me atm.

I scum lean this slot.

[tutuu]

u guys should know that spf is amazing as wolf. she is amazing as town too as proven by her champs games but on em she has like a 54% winrate as mafia last time i checked (which at least imo is huge, i have like 25% winrate as mafia, its rly hard to wolf in those setups) and i remember skimming a few of her games once and like, her tone, her emotions, everything, its all there. like if she is a wolf she wouldnt just roll over and die, just saying!

i appreciate the flattery. i think i have a pretty good scumgame. it's still not very clear why you think im wolf, though

other way around, im wary to townread u for anything, thats all

there's a difference between being wary to townread someone and being willing to vote them on d1, right? the latter implies that they did something scummy

i townread everyone except 6 players, and i need to make a use of my vote

[Alison]

re: JPIC gives no defense to himself, that's why I have reservations - 112 and KZA come to mind as recent D1 scum exes that made very little attempt to defend themselves, KZA moreso than 112.

[MacDougall]

I think if SPF is legitimately mafia that someone pushing her has TMI and it's distancing. I don't see any way a town with no information could consider her a top candidate personally. But obviously she doesn't have three mafia voting her. Right?

[tutuu]

People say I have done scummy stuff when this is literally what I do as town

can you do something more?

can u empathize with other ppl who find it frustrating how much effort they're putting, while u dont put as much effort and u expect for ppl to correctly townread u?

[staypositivefriend]

u guys should know that spf is amazing as wolf. she is amazing as town too as proven by her champs games but on em she has like a 54% winrate as mafia last time i checked (which at least imo is huge, i have like 25% winrate as mafia, its rly hard to wolf in those setups) and i remember skimming a few of her games once and like, her tone, her emotions, everything, its all there. like if she is a wolf she wouldnt just roll over and die, just saying!

i appreciate the flattery. i think i have a pretty good scumgame. it's still not very clear why you think im wolf, though

other way around, im wary to townread u for anything, thats all

there's a difference between being wary to townread someone and being willing to vote them on d1, right? the latter implies that they did something scummy

i townread everyone except 6 players, and i need to make a use of my vote

right, i forgot that you were a POE reader. i'm the same way so i don't hold it against you

i do think that you're most likely town, so i'd ask you to keep an open mind and consider switching your vote so that i have more time to towntell & integrate myself into the game

[Alison]

I think if SPF is legitimately mafia that someone pushing her has TMI and it's distancing. I don't see any way a town with no information could consider her a top candidate personally. But obviously she doesn't have three mafia voting her. Right?

I'm not sure. I have SPF in my POE. I think Colin (I know you disagree on this one but bear with me), JPIC, LC all look worse than her, which makes her the ~4th or ~5th (maybe nutella could surpass her once I hear your case on nutella/juliets being T/W because I really think juliets is town) most scummy player in the game. If I know I'm town and I can read SPF as the 4-5th scummiest, then it's not a massive stretch that some other town could consider her 1st or 2nd scummiest.

[Poison]

I feel like this list has high town equity and have seen significant self clearing posts from all of them:

Alison
Dyslexicon
Juliets
Hally
Master Radishes
Poison Chan
Samusamu
staypositivefriend
Timsup2nothin
tutuu

I think this list is probably town, but I have reservations:

DrWilgy - Specifically I cannot resolve some of the angles he's taken in the game, and DrWilgy appears to have finally regathered his wim from years gone by which makes him probably the best player in the entire game ergo foolish to ever trust.
dyachei - I cannot help but feel like they would have towncleared themselves to me if they were town. Have played the game quite myopically.
Herm - The ratio that is the frequency with which I have seen them post, or mentioned vs. the impact they have left on me leaves some to be desired. I would like to see some more reasoned perspectives.
Oddmerta - Despite early clears, appears to have been overwhelmed in a way that can be struggling to find legitimate pathways as mafia, or simply just town that is coasting on being largely townread.
sprityo - Has been scummy in their meta way but I feel they have been spewed clear through TMI.

This list is essentially pure null avocado assholes that should have their feet tickled until they show us their role cards:

ColinIsCool - I don't remember a thing.
Long Con - I can't recall them even posting.

This list is the current POE:

Justplayingitcool - Has been scummy since the start and done really nothing to warrant a clear besides lolcat. Clearing this guy for that behaviour is ridiculous.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - Meta read. Hasn't been mindmelding. Hasn't been talking to me much at all. Feels like someone who is struggling to find legitimate paths to take.
nutella - Meta read. Hasn't been mindmelding. Ignoring the fact I am scumreading her (generally when I scum read her as town she gets mad and either omgussing me or calls me out for being a dumbass).
tedxtr

@MacDougall why is dizzy, spf and tim so high up in your list? can help me read them?

also, i think there's a few players you have been reading in terms of midmeld ratios, is that the only way you should look at them?

you are playing with me for the first time, should you really trust me to put that high up in your list?

Dizzy feels town and is being townread by other townreads. Tim doesn't feel like he is motivated by anything other than trying to solve the game. SPF and I have very similar reads both town and mafia.

Mindmelding with some players I have meta on is a reliable way for me to solve them. Certainly not everyone. We have no flips or anything empirical yet so I am just using the tools I have.

I do believe I've played with you. Also hosted you. Also you seem town and are being town read by some of my townreads. I don't have any issues with you.

okay although i don't and can't sheep your reads because i think most of them are coming from some sort of meta and sheeping other consensus town reads?! but thanks for telling me how you came to that conclusion.

What reads do you disagree with?

Dizzy, i do not see anything towny about them. tim and spf are in my null reads so that's okay i guess. oh and juliet, is she in her town meta as well?

[Justplayingitcool]

People say I have done scummy stuff when this is literally what I do as town

can you do something more?

can u empathize with other ppl who find it frustrating how much effort they're putting, while u dont put as much effort and u expect for ppl to correctly townread u?

I am very empathetic to the town cause. I’ve just been trying to have fun

[MacDougall]

I think I'd vote nutella over ted if those are the wagons you want. What makes you think nutella is super good at reading juliets?

Nutella is super good at reading most people. Juliets isn't typically a hard person to read especially for someone with as much experience playing with her as nutella does.

I think Nutella is the mafia in the pair though. I've not seen the histrionic push on her pet cases that typifies her town play. She's shifting to where her vote best serves her. Moving from someone she established a legitimate case on to someone that I feel is very town but somehow already had two votes feels schemey to me.

[MacDougall]

Personally I think Nutella is the rogue tbh.

[Alison]

i do think that you're most likely town, so i'd ask you to keep an open mind and consider switching your vote so that i have more time to towntell & integrate myself into the game

I've said it a few times before but this is the strongest reason why SPF should be kept alive because I believe she is the kind of player who will make her alignment more obvious as time goes by. I mentioned wanting to see her realtime with Hally a bit to see if stuff changes since they're similar in personality, and it's one of the big reasons why I much prefer the JPIC wagon over her.

[staypositivefriend]

People say I have done scummy stuff when this is literally what I do as town

can you do something more?

can u empathize with other ppl who find it frustrating how much effort they're putting, while u dont put as much effort and u expect for ppl to correctly townread u?

I am very empathetic to the town cause. I’ve just been trying to have fun

at what point in the game did your mindset shift to: "i just want to have fun"?

because you had a pretty aggressive reaction to being fos'd at the beginning of the game, and that doesn't quite align w/your chill attitude now

[tutuu]

People say I have done scummy stuff when this is literally what I do as town

can you do something more?

can u empathize with other ppl who find it frustrating how much effort they're putting, while u dont put as much effort and u expect for ppl to correctly townread u?

I am very empathetic to the town cause. I’ve just been trying to have fun

and you made me laugh a lot and i appreciate it

but like multiple ppl have expressed that its not fun anymore, its like u repeat a joke for the 100th time and its not as funny as when u said it on the first time u know?

can u please try making a few reads?

what do u think about nutella and spf?

[MacDougall]

People say I have done scummy stuff when this is literally what I do as town

I scum read your opener and have never been compelled to reevaluate you once.

[Poison]

Personally I think Nutella is the rogue tbh.

do you think they would play differently as 3p than their usual scum/town meta?

[Alison]

Okay I think I'm convinced I'm not voting SPF today. It's nutella or JPIC.

[Poison]

I'm reading dizzy's iso and they just fluffed and not at all playing or solving the game. i do not buy the slanking thing tbh.

[MacDougall]

Personally I think Nutella is the rogue tbh.

do you think they would play differently as 3p than their usual scum/town meta?

She is scummy in ways she usually is but I haven't been able to establish solidly viable mafia teammates through reading her ISO for spew. She is usually good for spewing a teammate or two.

Also the way she engaged me earlier in the game about the rogue felt like she was trying to downplay the need to rogue hunt because she is the rogue.

[Justplayingitcool]

People say I have done scummy stuff when this is literally what I do as town

can you do something more?

can u empathize with other ppl who find it frustrating how much effort they're putting, while u dont put as much effort and u expect for ppl to correctly townread u?

I am very empathetic to the town cause. I’ve just been trying to have fun

at what point in the game did your mindset shift to: "i just want to have fun"?

because you had a pretty aggressive reaction to being fos'd at the beginning of the game, and that doesn't quite align w/your chill attitude now

Aggressive reaction? Gonna have to agree to disagree. I just didn’t understand why I was considered as scum after making a NAI opening post

[Alison]

I'm reading dizzy's iso and they just fluffed and not at all playing or solving the game. i do not buy the slanking thing tbh.

It's within town range. They did the same in, uh, was it Jack Attack or Philosopher's Mafia? One of those two.

Anyway, if Dizzy wants to slank, they'll slank. It's normal. Later on they'll come out and do things and those things will be good. Also Hally is town and Hally always reads Dizzy correctly, so trust the Hally townread.

[MacDougall]

Your opener wasn't NAI by my standards. It felt performative.

[Alison]

Aggressive reaction? Gonna have to agree to disagree. I just didn’t understand why I was considered as scum after making a NAI opening post

"caught for the wrong reasons" energy

[Alison]

Also I have no fucking clue what the Rogue does so I'm just going to treat Rogues as scum and kill them as eagerly as I would any scum member. If they're SK or some shit, I want to dispose of that as early as possible.

[Poison]

Personally I think Nutella is the rogue tbh.

do you think they would play differently as 3p than their usual scum/town meta?

She is scummy in ways she usually is but I haven't been able to establish solidly viable mafia teammates through reading her ISO for spew. She is usually good for spewing a teammate or two.

Also the way she engaged me earlier in the game about the rogue felt like she was trying to downplay the need to rogue hunt because she is the rogue.

I see. I think barely any people gave their views on the 3P, i think I saw alison making a post about samu being the 3p for similar reasons.

[Justplayingitcool]

Your opener wasn't NAI by my standards. It felt performative.

I was going to make that post regardless of alignment

[MacDougall]

I think Hally can be mafia here. She made a post that I see mafia make very often where they quote a town and say "I'm not against your case (JPIC) but I'd rather kill Nutella".

It's what mafia say when there are two available misyeets and they prefer to fence sit between the two.

[MacDougall]

Also I have no fucking clue what the Rogue does so I'm just going to treat Rogues as scum and kill them as eagerly as I would any scum member. If they're SK or some shit, I want to dispose of that as early as possible.

Yes I am in fuck the rogue mindset too

[Alison]

I no longer endorse the Samu 3P read.

Also Mac doing it now is not suspicious because the idea of people being Rogues was brought back into his mind by my own case on Samu. The tell is when nobody has talked about Rogues at all and then you suddenly bring it up for no reason. Mac has reasons and he has been reminded of people being Rogue recently.

[tutuu]

Your opener wasn't NAI by my standards. It felt performative.

I was going to make that post regardless of alignment

what are your reads on nutella and spf

[MacDougall]

Your opener wasn't NAI by my standards. It felt performative.

I was going to make that post regardless of alignment

This is good to know.

But why don't you have any reads? You've been here a lot and a lot of people have engaged you and read you. How can you have no reads?

[staypositivefriend]

People say I have done scummy stuff when this is literally what I do as town

can you do something more?

can u empathize with other ppl who find it frustrating how much effort they're putting, while u dont put as much effort and u expect for ppl to correctly townread u?

I am very empathetic to the town cause. I’ve just been trying to have fun

at what point in the game did your mindset shift to: "i just want to have fun"?

because you had a pretty aggressive reaction to being fos'd at the beginning of the game, and that doesn't quite align w/your chill attitude now

Aggressive reaction? Gonna have to agree to disagree. I just didn’t understand why I was considered as scum after making a NAI opening post

you wouldn't call this aggressive?

I better hear a good damn reason why I am being scumread right now

[Alison]

FWIW I genuinely think JPIC's opener was NAI but his reaction to it wasn't.

Also Mac please don't scumread Hally

[Poison]

i do not know who to vote tbh, I think I'll go with odd. if so many people are tring dizzy, i think that can be clearing them? although i won't put them any further up in the list than null.
[VOTE: odd] aubergine

[Justplayingitcool]

People say I have done scummy stuff when this is literally what I do as town

can you do something more?

can u empathize with other ppl who find it frustrating how much effort they're putting, while u dont put as much effort and u expect for ppl to correctly townread u?

I am very empathetic to the town cause. I’ve just been trying to have fun

at what point in the game did your mindset shift to: "i just want to have fun"?

because you had a pretty aggressive reaction to being fos'd at the beginning of the game, and that doesn't quite align w/your chill attitude now

Aggressive reaction? Gonna have to agree to disagree. I just didn’t understand why I was considered as scum after making a NAI opening post

you wouldn't call this aggressive?

I better hear a good damn reason why I am being scumread right now

Nope, that was me partly being sarcastic

[Alison]

i do not know who to vote tbh, I think I'll go with odd. if so many people are tring dizzy, i think that can be clearing them? although i won't put them any further up in the list than null.
[VOTE: odd] aubergine

You should be voting SPF, nutella or JPIC right now. Voting Odd is basically not voting at all.

[Poison]

I no longer endorse the Samu 3P read.

Also Mac doing it now is not suspicious because the idea of people being Rogues was brought back into his mind by my own case on Samu. The tell is when nobody has talked about Rogues at all and then you suddenly bring it up for no reason. Mac has reasons and he has been reminded of people being Rogue recently.

i don't think samu is anything but town!

[MacDougall]

I no longer endorse the Samu 3P read.

Also Mac doing it now is not suspicious because the idea of people being Rogues was brought back into his mind by my own case on Samu. The tell is when nobody has talked about Rogues at all and then you suddenly bring it up for no reason. Mac has reasons and he has been reminded of people being Rogue recently.

I actually just brought it up because it occurred to me twice prior and I hadn't mentioned it at those times. But I am in a different mindset atm and was offering nuanced nutella reads with a clear mind and players here actually listening to me.

[Alison]

I don't buy the "I was being sarcastic all along" defense, the incongruity of the tone of that post and your laidback attitude has been pointed out several times by now and you've had plenty of chances to explain yourself if you were just joking around.