Jack Attack Mafia (Day 5)

[Hally]

sprityo in Girl Genius

What’s the difference?

I don’t think this is remotely angleshooting unless we’re dwelling in “all meta reads are angleshooting” philosophy.

He subbed in there — that’s funny. He has seven posts in five days in that game, none with game relevant content, and stuck around the whole time.

why would you ever use that game as meta if he was barely in it idgi

[nutella]

have we considered that there's no vig?

kill + clean seems more in line with something a mafia would do than something a town role would do. it's possible that SK shot nanook and mafia shot FG.if we think about it from the perspective of a mafia member, denying the FG flip to us is powerful (which is why hally was so upset about it). and, if FG is town, they have to nightkill her at some point to win since she can't be exed. this suggests that mafia wanted to wipe away FG's role with the janitor while there was maximum uncertainty as to what alignment she is. they could easily have feared her coming back into the thread and obvtowning it up, or being investigated by someone, at which point they would have lost the opportunity to deny town major information by wiping the evidence away.

the more I think about it, the more I think it's plausible that mafia strategically killed FG to deny us information. which would mean FG is town, although I have already argued we should assume she is regardless

hmmm

[Hally]

i don’t really have anyone i sr anymore

casing pawn will be my only contribution to this game probably i’m usually good for catching one scum and then after that i falter lol

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I’ll continue reviewing interactions as much as I can tonight, but I may run out of time. This could be a good thing for you to try [mention]Hally[/mention]. If you’re not seeing mafia at an individual level, maybe you can find them as pairs or groups.

[Hally]

I’ll continue reviewing interactions as much as I can tonight, but I may run out of time. This could be a good thing for you to try @Hally. If you’re not seeing mafia at an individual level, maybe you can find them as pairs or groups.

ah idk, i’m decent at interaction/spew analysis after i get a flipped scum but its hard for me to do it blind

seems like more your wheelhouse

[Alison]

im just going to say it: I don't believe all this stuff about girl genius. TSP, I don't buy that you saw sprityo play this game, thought "this is really different from when he was a serial killer in girl genius", and then went off "I don't think sprityo is 3P this game".

first of all, this read is super tenuous. sprityo lurked as SK in one game one time, and he... still lurked here, but slightly less, so he's not the same alignment? huh?

second of all... why was your head even at SKs? at the time the prevailing theory was that vig shot FG, and the mafia shot nanook, remember? there was no hint of an SK at that point in time. we all knew it could be a possibility, but for you to draw the mental connection "this slot isn't SK because it doesn't match sprityo's 1-game SK meta" -> "this slot probably isn't 3P" - does that make sense? why can't that slot be some other third party role?

[nutella]

what if colin isn’t scum

i can’t say i feel that strongly that he is even though i see the points others are raising

they don’t particularly move me ig and he comes off pretty genuine to me

yeah like every time I actually see him post I want to think he's just town

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I’ll continue reviewing interactions as much as I can tonight, but I may run out of time. This could be a good thing for you to try @Hally. If you’re not seeing mafia at an individual level, maybe you can find them as pairs or groups.

ah idk, i’m decent at interaction/spew analysis after i get a flipped scum but its hard for me to do it blind

seems like more your wheelhouse

It's up to you of course; I won't push you to try it if you don't feel it. As a note, when I do these "blind" interactions I operate on a presumption: "Assume Player X has already flipped mafia. What does this post say about Player Y?" to make the process as similar as possible to the "spew" interactions you're more accustomed to.

[ColinIsCool]

It's time to dump your stock in killing me and buy buy buy in killing Tony!

[Alison]

I don't see what the rest of you do in Colin, but I think TSP's handling of the Pawn-is-3P thing has been very bad and want him to die first now

[JaggedJimmyJay]

cause it made sense for him to be 3p if you’re a wolf with knowledge

based on what

[Hally]

im just going to say it: I don't believe all this stuff about girl genius. TSP, I don't buy that you saw sprityo play this game, thought "this is really different from when he was a serial killer in girl genius", and then went off "I don't think sprityo is 3P this game".

first of all, this read is super tenuous. sprityo lurked as SK in one game one time, and he... still lurked here, but slightly less, so he's not the same alignment? huh?

second of all... why was your head even at SKs? at the time the prevailing theory was that vig shot FG, and the mafia shot nanook, remember? there was no hint of an SK at that point in time. we all knew it could be a possibility, but for you to draw the mental connection "this slot isn't SK because it doesn't match sprityo's 1-game SK meta" -> "this slot probably isn't 3P" - does that make sense? why can't that slot be some other third party role?

it doesn’t make sense to me either

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I want to see a civilian on the basis of tone alone, I probably could manage that for the entire player roster. Because of that, I feel the standard needs to be raised. Because not everyone is a civilian.

[Hally]

what if colin isn’t scum

i can’t say i feel that strongly that he is even though i see the points others are raising

they don’t particularly move me ig and he comes off pretty genuine to me

yeah like every time I actually see him post I want to think he's just town

yeah...

[Hally]

If I want to see a civilian on the basis of tone alone, I probably could manage that for the entire player roster. Because of that, I feel the standard needs to be raised. Because not everyone is a civilian.

true

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Maybe a mass meta dive will help. I am about to find a mafia-aligned game from every "candidate" in this game and share a link.

[Hally]

i was just about to ask what colin and tsp are like as scum

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]Alison[/mention] and [mention]KitsuShel[/mention], I'd appreciate it if you could grab me a game in which you were a mafioso off-site. Alison I realize Space Invaders applies, but I hesitate to rely on that -- the mechanics of the game were too different.

[Hally]

tony doesn’t feel much different to me than space invaders but the pawn 3P thing is kinda bad

but maybe not like bad in a way that makes him scum? i still don’t get why tony would let those posts exist if he’s scum. seems very careless

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mafia meta shite:

TonyStarkPrime, mafia in Fallout
TonyStarkPrime, mafia in Persona 5

ColinIsCool, mafia in Easter
ColinIsCool, mafia in Ancient Greece

sabie12, mafia in Fallout
sabie12, mafia in Better Off Ted
sabie12, mafia in Girl Genius

DrWilgy, mafia in Pokemon
nutella, mafia in FTL
nutella, mafia in Vanilla

Epignosis, mafia in Assassin's Creed
Epignosis, mafia in Vanilla

[Alison]

If I want to see a civilian on the basis of tone alone, I probably could manage that for the entire player roster. Because of that, I feel the standard needs to be raised. Because not everyone is a civilian.

actually there are two people who I don't think have civillian tone.

LC and FG. and they're both almost certainly town

[Alison]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/22356
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/22395

I shared these in Space Invaders at proto's request, reposting here.

[nutella]

Tony. Just say it. What about Girl Genius?

Since Sprityo subbed out I think this shouldn’t be discussed, but Sprityo was the serial killer in that game and played it substantially differently than he did here. It was enough for me to make an off the cuff post about it.

uhhhm i think i buy this but also it's lame lol

[Long Con]

If I want to see a civilian on the basis of tone alone, I probably could manage that for the entire player roster. Because of that, I feel the standard needs to be raised. Because not everyone is a civilian.

actually there are two people who I don't think have civillian tone.

LC and FG. and they're both almost certainly town

Remember it for next game we play together!

[nutella]

And like how often do you get serial killer meta

i think that's why i don't like that you used it lol

they're such individual cases that i don't find it surprising that it wasn't really comparable

[ColinIsCool]

And if anybody wants to see my town meta, see every single other game I've played where I've made it past N1 in the last 2 years

[nutella]

sprityo in Girl Genius

What’s the difference?

I don’t think this is remotely angleshooting unless we’re dwelling in “all meta reads are angleshooting” philosophy.

He subbed in there — that’s funny. He has seven posts in five days in that game, none with game relevant content, and stuck around the whole time.

okay I think I kind of see what your thought process was now

[TonyStarkPrime]

I don't see what the rest of you do in Colin, but I think TSP's handling of the Pawn-is-3P thing has been very bad and want him to die first now

o p p o r t u n i s t i c

[nutella]

I don’t know if you’ve noticed this but I tend to post my reads *before* I think about them

relatable lol

[Alison]

I don't see what the rest of you do in Colin, but I think TSP's handling of the Pawn-is-3P thing has been very bad and want him to die first now

o p p o r t u n i s t i c

you did something that was objectively really scummy, plz refrain from labelling me an opportunist for suspecting you because of it

[TonyStarkPrime]

im just going to say it: I don't believe all this stuff about girl genius. TSP, I don't buy that you saw sprityo play this game, thought "this is really different from when he was a serial killer in girl genius", and then went off "I don't think sprityo is 3P this game".

first of all, this read is super tenuous. sprityo lurked as SK in one game one time, and he... still lurked here, but slightly less, so he's not the same alignment? huh?

second of all... why was your head even at SKs? at the time the prevailing theory was that vig shot FG, and the mafia shot nanook, remember? there was no hint of an SK at that point in time. we all knew it could be a possibility, but for you to draw the mental connection "this slot isn't SK because it doesn't match sprityo's 1-game SK meta" -> "this slot probably isn't 3P" - does that make sense? why can't that slot be some other third party role?

first) yes. Correct.
Second) this is just factually wrong I can tell because there’s a post I made where I called out a potential SK it’s what we’re talking about

[TonyStarkPrime]

I don't see what the rest of you do in Colin, but I think TSP's handling of the Pawn-is-3P thing has been very bad and want him to die first now

o p p o r t u n i s t i c

you did something that was objectively really scummy, plz refrain from labelling me an opportunist for suspecting you because of it

What was the objectively scummy thing? Was it objectively scummy before Jay brought it up?

[nutella]

I don't see what the rest of you do in Colin, but I think TSP's handling of the Pawn-is-3P thing has been very bad and want him to die first now

o p p o r t u n i s t i c

funny i was just glancing at your p5 iso that jay just linked and you did this spacing for emphasis a lot there
do you do it as town too or is this enough of a tell that i should flip my read of you on

[TonyStarkPrime]

And like how often do you get serial killer meta

i think that's why i don't like that you used it lol

they're such individual cases that i don't find it surprising that it wasn't really comparable

I mean. tsp makes a bad borderline angleshooty read and it goes south is not particularly a surprising story

[Alison]

I don't see what the rest of you do in Colin, but I think TSP's handling of the Pawn-is-3P thing has been very bad and want him to die first now

o p p o r t u n i s t i c

you did something that was objectively really scummy, plz refrain from labelling me an opportunist for suspecting you because of it

What was the objectively scummy thing? Was it objectively scummy before Jay brought it up?

you said something that you shouldn't be knowing as a townie, then when questioned about it, you tried to deflect by claiming it was OGI when it wasn't, then when you were pressured into giving a full reasoning it was not believable and full of holes

that is objectively scummy behavior

[nutella]

tbf I can see what alison is saying about the pawn 3p thing being a weird/more likely mafia thought process


but otoh like i said i thought i kind of understood his explanation

idk

[TonyStarkPrime]

I don't see what the rest of you do in Colin, but I think TSP's handling of the Pawn-is-3P thing has been very bad and want him to die first now

o p p o r t u n i s t i c

funny i was just glancing at your p5 iso that jay just linked and you did this spacing for emphasis a lot there
do you do it as town too or is this enough of a tell that i should flip my read of you on

P5 wasn’t a real game and I died on day 1 but the spacing thing is pretty common I think

[Alison]

honestly I think the thing you originally said wasn't even that big of a deal, but the convoluted girl genius explanation you gave was just incredibly unbelievable to me. I didn't understand it, it didn't make sense, and it sounds totally made up

[TonyStarkPrime]

I don't see what the rest of you do in Colin, but I think TSP's handling of the Pawn-is-3P thing has been very bad and want him to die first now

o p p o r t u n i s t i c

you did something that was objectively really scummy, plz refrain from labelling me an opportunist for suspecting you because of it

What was the objectively scummy thing? Was it objectively scummy before Jay brought it up?

you said something that you shouldn't be knowing as a townie, then when questioned about it, you tried to deflect by claiming it was OGI when it wasn't, then when you were pressured into giving a full reasoning it was not believable and full of holes

that is objectively scummy behavior

Was the thing I said that I shouldn’t be knowing that Alison was mafia?

[Alison]

no, it was "pawn is 3P"

[TonyStarkPrime]

honestly I think the thing you originally said wasn't even that big of a deal, but the convoluted girl genius explanation you gave was just incredibly unbelievable to me. I didn't understand it, it didn't make sense, and it sounds totally made up

Okay so I, instead of shrugging off something I know would have quickly dissipated, decided to come up with a convoluted meta read that I know sounds somewhat incredulous on the spot. It’s unlikely.

[nutella]

honestly I think the thing you originally said wasn't even that big of a deal, but the convoluted girl genius explanation you gave was just incredibly unbelievable to me. I didn't understand it, it didn't make sense, and it sounds totally made up

I thought it made sense, I can see why it kinda looks contrived but I think I get the gist of it

in GG sprit was SK and even though he was an extreme lurker he stayed in the game, which could mean he was excited to play SK and wanted to stay in as the role even if he was busy or not motivated to post much

here, well I shouldn't talk about what's different here so that's what makes it an angleshooty read

[Alison]

honestly I think the thing you originally said wasn't even that big of a deal, but the convoluted girl genius explanation you gave was just incredibly unbelievable to me. I didn't understand it, it didn't make sense, and it sounds totally made up

Okay so I, instead of shrugging off something I know would have quickly dissipated, decided to come up with a convoluted meta read that I know sounds somewhat incredulous on the spot. It’s unlikely.

please do not mischaracterize the situation. JJJ was actively questioning you about it; a member of the towncore is, in his own words, treating you as outed scum because of what you said. As mafia there, you would absolutely need to think of a way to justify or explain your actions, and if it really was a slip, you wouldn't have any, necessitating that you make up one.

[Hally]

Mafia meta shite:

TonyStarkPrime, mafia in Fallout
TonyStarkPrime, mafia in Persona 5

ColinIsCool, mafia in Easter
ColinIsCool, mafia in Ancient Greece

sabie12, mafia in Fallout
sabie12, mafia in Better Off Ted
sabie12, mafia in Girl Genius

DrWilgy, mafia in Pokemon
nutella, mafia in FTL
nutella, mafia in Vanilla

Epignosis, mafia in Assassin's Creed
Epignosis, mafia in Vanilla

i can’t really glean anything meaningful from any of this but i appreciate the compilation

[nutella]

I don't struggle to believe that tsp jumped to those thoughts and genuinely felt it was reason enough to think sprit/pawn slot wasn't the SK


and like hally was saying I don't think he spits out that take so brazenly if mafia. I just think he would be a bit more careful

[TonyStarkPrime]

I’m in a bit of a syndicate streak for having a bad thought process and defending it poorly and to be honest I’m not sure what to do about it. Like. Disregard whether I made a good read that makes sense. I didn’t. You can see that this was in fact my thought process. Yesterday I was hesitant to believe why I thought Pawn couldn’t be the SK, today I brought that up. It’s clear how I was thinking about it.

[Alison]

I’m in a bit of a syndicate streak for having a bad thought process and defending it poorly and to be honest I’m not sure what to do about it. Like. Disregard whether I made a good read that makes sense. I didn’t. You can see that this was in fact my thought process. Yesterday I was hesitant to believe why I thought Pawn couldn’t be the SK, today I brought that up. It’s clear how I was thinking about it.

hm

[TonyStarkPrime]

Mafia meta shite:

TonyStarkPrime, mafia in Fallout
TonyStarkPrime, mafia in Persona 5

ColinIsCool, mafia in Easter
ColinIsCool, mafia in Ancient Greece

sabie12, mafia in Fallout
sabie12, mafia in Better Off Ted
sabie12, mafia in Girl Genius

DrWilgy, mafia in Pokemon
nutella, mafia in FTL
nutella, mafia in Vanilla

Epignosis, mafia in Assassin's Creed
Epignosis, mafia in Vanilla

I’m tempted to arbitrarily scum read this for giving me scum credit for the disaster that was persona V but not Epi

[Alison]

let's talk about your theory that the team is epi/alison/JJJ

why do you believe this is the mafia team

[nutella]

you guys really think he made up a reason on the spot after jay's accusation by coming up with a game from a year ago where sprityo happened to be sk? you think that's more likely than that he had already made that association and that's why he had the weird read?


I.... yeah I'm sorry I'm just gonna fully defend tsp here, like I said last night it's in his town meta to have jumpy thoughts like that and this is one that I really don't think he could have faked retroactively lol