Take Me Out at the Ballgame! [DAY 3]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Idk, I wanted to see what you'd say. I was but a clueless vanilla who wanted to have some fun with the setup. With all that epistemological stuff I was talking about, I thought having a dispute like that might flush out something to work with.

[Michelle]

btw. I considered the red on LC real and I saw the gif as him giving up. That's why I didn't mention the claim as reason of vote.
That particular gif is indeed my favorite.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The only way for you to know he’s lying is if you’re the doc or the 2 shot doc, in neither case should you be revealing imo

Huh?

Ok I'm confused. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

And I’m not convinced that’s a real claim tbh

He could be fucking with us, yeah.

The only way for you to know he’s lying is if you’re the doc or the 2 shot doc, in neither case should you be revealing imo

Huh?

Ok I'm confused. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

1-shot cop cannot exist with doctor or 2-shot doc. So for you to be town and know he’s lying, you’d have to be one of those two roles.

Which actually if it were a real claim is probably fine, 1 for 1 is fine at this point imo, but if it isn’t a real claim, which I don’t think it is, revealing is bad

It says it can either be a row or a column

Yes. A row or a column. The 1-shot cop doesn’t exist in the same row or column as the doc or the 2-shot doc. Thus, if one is in the game the other one cannot be.

OH never mind I'm dumb.

You seemed like you were going somewhere specific with that, beyond a "what the hell" kind of experiment, until Nanook clarified the matrix.

[Michelle]

As of this point she still didn't know who Nanook's claimed red check was on, and so the mindset of this post confuses me. That doesn't have to mean it's bad, but I don't understand it.

Jay, i knew it can't be me because I am villager.
And i explained, me being the top wagon and pushed in that moment by every active player itt, Nanook would word that differently, idk how, but not so general.
It was simple a feminine intuition tbh if you want to give it a name.

Who do you think is mafia?

idk. I said at least one of the 'i would never NK M7' is mafia. Still i need to dig itt, glad to have such a long day

[nutella]

You seemed like you were going somewhere specific with that, beyond a "what the hell" kind of experiment, until Nanook clarified the matrix.

Nah that was all part of the bit, I didn't want to outright fakeclaim something and Nanook was being too serious about it so I let it go.

My cluelessness about your "cop hunt" thing after that was real though. I was confused as hell.

[Long Con]

@Long Con please describe your mindset when you were confronted with Nanook's claim of a red check on you. Just tell me what you thought of it and how you decided your next course of action.

I knew there were no misdirects or info-corruption-type roles in the game, so I figured it was either a ploy, or a power role would step up and challenge Nanook's claim. Either way, it was best to just sit back and watch what came out of it. I gave it until a couple of hours before the lynch before engaging Nanook about it.

[Long Con]

People who have definitely seen me shit on Long Con without saying a damned thing about it:

@Michelle
@Epignosis
@nutella

What is this post about?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

People who have definitely seen me shit on Long Con without saying a damned thing about it:

Michelle
Epignosis
nutella

What is this post about?

Making note of what I felt were people overlooking/ignoring my grievances with you in case I ended up right.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why does that post interest you?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You seemed like you were going somewhere specific with that, beyond a "what the hell" kind of experiment, until Nanook clarified the matrix.

Nah that was all part of the bit, I didn't want to outright fakeclaim something and Nanook was being too serious about it so I let it go.

My cluelessness about your "cop hunt" thing after that was real though. I was confused as hell.

Yeah all that sounds like hot bullshit

[Long Con]

Why does that post interest you?

Interesting that it is a list of all the remaining living players. Personal because it speaks about shitting on me.

[Long Con]

I submit that the mafia team for this ballgame is nutella and Long Con.

I will explore the latter when opportunity presents itself.

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

Well, you're probably half-right. [VOTE: nutella] aubergine

Tell me why you feel Michelle is a mafioso.

Ok, some reasons. First, I don't think you would do last night as a baddie. I was already cooling off on the JJJ train, but some of the things you said felt a little too real. As for Michelle, I went back in her ISO.

LC turned around pretty quickly onto the Michelle train.

Am I on the Michelle train now?

You spoke as if you felt sure she was scum. Perhaps it was hypothetical but it didn't read that way in context.

Maybe it's a scummate that is actually sure she is scum, but doesn't really want to go there so he's tip toeing a bit? Just a wild guess.

Now this is a good post.

If Michelle and I were teammates... like, I'm not afraid to bus. I'm not Michelle's teammate.

Omg he is not my teammate? Then he is scum!

Idk.. LC as mafia writing this post would be a scum claim for my eyes. Because he would know I am villager and he would word it differently.

Is he a player to go for this kind of logic as scum?

This is really disingenuous. She's enjoying that I'm getting a lot of heat here, and trying to throw fuel on the fire.

[VOTE: Nut] aubergine

Could still be okay with a Michelle lynch but I feel like her townie posts balance out her icky ones at this point.

I didn't post icky. If you are fine with my lynch then you are bad.

This looks like basic distancing. Nutella with the wishy-washy condemnation of Michelle, Michelle with a bit of pushback.

Day was full of homechores, now I am back :-)

I have a couple of mechanics questions. I have not played very many games with a matrix like this one has, and I am not 100% on the terminology.

What is a "strongman"? And a "Role Doc", that is a role checker, right?

Ok, I see the matrix setup now. No wonder nobody reacted to my "it says two scum in the OP". =p

A role cop is someone who cop town to see what role they have, vanilla or otherwise.

A role cop is a cop who's result is tne role of the target no matter AI.

So first you vote me witout any concern about my AI and you associate me at random and now you lie about what a role cop does. You posted other cop role smh

You are bad Dizzy

Another example of Michelle trying to stoke the fires under a player. I don't see how a player would form a *real* suspicion of someone based on this... even if Dizzy were just plain wrong about how a role works, it's not a worthwhile scheme for a baddie to employ: publicly lie about a role, and then... ???

Probably doesn't kill MP:
Epignosis
Long Con

Not sure, nor is she, but possibly cleared by a cop hunt anyway:
nutella

Not sure period:
S~V~S

Don't see why they wouldn't kill MP:
Michelle
Nanook

if I were scum I wouldn't like to kill him personally. But i would let the NK for my scumpartener because I have yet little knowledge about everyone here.
On the other hand, him as veteran player is fear killed by every single player including you. Every sane mafia kills M+7 if he rands villager.

Your analysis is so wifom-y that it gives me goosebumbs.

This is sketchy. First, Michelle wouldn't kill MP. Then, she'd let her partner kill MP, because everyone else in the game is insane if they don't kill MP. More likely that Michelle was feeling the noose close in just a little, and had to say something other than "Yeah, I guess I am one of the more likely players to kill MP". She actually says she wouldn't kill him, before saying she doesn't know him. So, why wouldn't she kill him if she doesn't know him? Where did the idea that he's a superplayer that MUST be killed immediately even come from?

I don't see why you felt the need to use the most violent colours on this post but I can tell you, if you are villager that we are back to square 1 and you after few games still are unable to understand me. Shame of you sir.
I was honest, but like usual sincerity doesn't pay off.

I don't accept your take, is fake reasoning again. You and your Poe and your exercises, you jump on me again like Dizzy did in day 1 and this is the way to loose the game for town only because you think I said what i didn't say.

I DON'T BELIEVE YOU WOULDN'T KILL M7 IF YOU WERE WOLF.

And the best reason is he was town reading you. The question is, are you wolf? Because if you are not the answer at the question is as useless as mine. I would kill him BUT I DIDN'T BECAUSE I AM VILLAGER.

Now she says she would kill him, contradicting her last post. I'm trying to decide if this is a "No U" accusation or not, but it never quite gets there, just calls JJJ "fake" and says he'd kill MP. I don't know how Michelle is making this judgment. If JJJ hadn't brought up the "who would kill MP?" idea, would Michelle have said anything about the subject? Now she's an expert.

I was convinced he is lying.

Alright cool. You said that this was suspicious to you, that Dizzy lied about the role cop role. Why do you think a mafia Dizzy would lie about that? What do they gain from that lie?

Idk. What would i gain from accusing him based on a wrong perception?

I don't really know what to say about this. The best emoji I can use to describe my face is , but put a little more incredulous disbelief in the eyes. Really, this is just the same suspicion I had earlier when she accused Dizzy of lying.

LC posted my favorite gif, he deserves my vote too
[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

This one is suspicious to me as well, she knows the check is bad, so of course she jumps on it right away, but feels the need to distance herself from the whole thing by being playful, and making it about her "favourite gif". Like, damn, I should have posted a different one!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm going to take a deeper look at these three combinations:

Long Con/Michelle
Long Con/nutella
Michelle/nutella

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Are Long Con and Michelle compatible as mafia teammates?

Long Con's stuff

Spoiler: show

I'm not lynching Michelle for WARM-UPS banter. That's wack.

Pfbtbtbtbtbtb

Spoiler: show

I'm not lynching Michelle for WARM-UPS banter. That's wack.

Then don't. I felt it was more than that, but you do you

I was thinking of it from Epi teaming you and her due to the banter. What did you think was 'more'? I will look back at your posts.

Ok, right, you didn't like Michelle's calling out of "seem":

I need posts from everyone and now i remember Svs said she will come back after a time face but she didn't...

Anyway the day is long and I expect activity later because of time zones.

My family thing went longer than I expected, my stepmother and sister never shut up. My stepmom thinks they're gonna lock down NY kinda like Escape from NY but sick people not prisoners, it might have been funny if she were not so hysterical. Then my dog got needy and I just wound up doing other things.

If you read the last post I made, you will see why I felt you were a bit over the top. I felt like you were fluffing me, and trying too hard to appear helpful and town, and then you trying to take one work out of a sentence and make it into a suspicion also felt like trying too hard. I am a tone reader and play by how people made me feel, and you made me feel like you wer building up your post count without actually saying anything. But I don't really know your game. I just checked and see you were a civvie in Champs, I will try to make time to reread you there. You will note I have not voted for you yet. I made a one sentence observation and it turned into this,lol.

Other than me and my usage of the word "seem", has anything else in the thread gotten your eye?

These add a contextual wrinkle to the previous comment. Seemingly it wasn't just "warm-ups banter" that were driving suspicion of Michelle, so one could argue Long Con invalidly discredited the suspicion previously.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

For me, she seems to be trying too hard.

this word, "seems" looks like you want to shade me but you can't because you don't have any reason to scum read me.

Second, this is scum language. It's "you don't have a reason to think I'm scum" instead of "I'm town".
I also agree that Michelle vibes kawaiii in the worst way in the very start of the game.

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I like this post.

i dislike this post. Why do you like an oppinion who it's not true? The reasoning Dizzy posted to vote me it's not a townish way to put things.
I can say "i am town" but I don't trust anyone would believe it. My idea was correct because when someone scumreads based on shallow reasons I have to question the reasons of the read. Svs explained well after we interacted her thoughts, Dizzy took an opportunity to cast a bad vote.

I disagree, I understand Dizzy's logic here. You, as scum, are looking at things with the knowledge that you're scum, so saying "you don't have any reason to scum read me" belies indignation at getting caught for bullshit non-reasons.

no, because he starts from the idea I am scum so he is 'sure' about the read. This is scum tactic, not my observation who just wanted to check Svs's idea there. And look how he pretends he can read me well. I sense it as a fake read made by scum.

Actually, you're right. Dizzy really took it out of context. "... looks like you want to shade me but you can't because you don't have any reason to scum read me." That's talking about S~V~S' perspective, it's not telling her that she doesn't have a reason to scum read you, it's the reason why her shade is weak.

These posts aren't adjacent in this history, but they're tied together. Long Con lent his understanding to an accusation Dizzy hurled at Michelle before re-interpreting and deciding Dizzy took things out of context. I want to make one note:

Initially in supporting Dizzy, Long Con was essentially clarifying logic -- not agreeing with it. This can bear the appearance of an accusation against Michelle, but it doesn't quite get there. He's explaining an accusation, not participating in it. This is important to me, because when Long Con reverted to the alternate interpretation (which I maintain from earlier perspectives is dubious on its own), he did implement this into concrete accusations of Dizzy. Dizzy was his worst enemy through the first cycle of my replacing him. There's some incongruency there benefiting Michelle and hurting DizzyJimmyJay.

Spoiler: show

LC turned around pretty quickly onto the Michelle train.

Am I on the Michelle train now?

LC turned around pretty quickly onto the Michelle train.

Am I on the Michelle train now?

You spoke as if you felt sure she was scum. Perhaps it was hypothetical but it didn't read that way in context.

It was about understanding Dizzy's perspective on why "you don't have a reason to think I'm scum" could look bad. Michelle accused Dizzy of illogic, and I don't agree. My opinion on it is that it's slightly scummy-looking when framed like that, but I'm not hopping on the train over it.

This question and expansion are, to be fair, consistent with the notion that he hadn't actually accused Michelle of something for whatever that's worth. In this exact moment of the context, what's unclear is why Long Con wouldn't be willing to join the train "over that" -- I'm not sure something better had arrived yet to warrant his vote. Keep in mind that these precede his re-interpretation of Dyslexicon's accusation.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

Lay off my scum buddy >: (

[VOTE: Epic nosebleed] aubergine

Did Epi get baited?

What do you mean by this?

I thought he jumped too easily on Michelle after Dizzy's early prod of her, and Dizzy was reacting to his vote as if he'd been caught in a trap.

Did you really think that? I vote people out of the gate all of the time. Yet in this particular scenario, I got caught in a trap? What trap? What's Michelle's alignment? What's Dyslexicon's alignment?

Girl please.

I didn't see a trap go off. I just saw early prod-voting.

Long Con was supportive of Epignosis in light of the latter's being accused of being "trapped" into a Michelle vote. Okay.

Spoiler: show

LC turned around pretty quickly onto the Michelle train.

Am I on the Michelle train now?

You spoke as if you felt sure she was scum. Perhaps it was hypothetical but it didn't read that way in context.

Maybe it's a scummate that is actually sure she is scum, but doesn't really want to go there so he's tip toeing a bit? Just a wild guess.

Now this is a good post.

If Michelle and I were teammates... like, I'm not afraid to bus. I'm not Michelle's teammate.

Eh. The premise of this defense isn't quite valid -- one can be a perfectly willing busser and still be caught tip-toeing around suspicion of a teammate. I don't know how much I care about this post though.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Second, this is scum language. It's "you don't have a reason to think I'm scum" instead of "I'm town".
I also agree that Michelle vibes kawaiii in the worst way in the very start of the game.

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I like this post.

i dislike this post. Why do you like an oppinion who it's not true? The reasoning Dizzy posted to vote me it's not a townish way to put things.
I can say "i am town" but I don't trust anyone would believe it. My idea was correct because when someone scumreads based on shallow reasons I have to question the reasons of the read. Svs explained well after we interacted her thoughts, Dizzy took an opportunity to cast a bad vote.

OMGUS much?

Tell me more about how Dizzy’s perspective is not townie.

More than I said already? Why? I think I covered all the points and I don't want to turn this into a tunnel.

Talk to me about why do you think I am scum .

See, the problem is I'm still not really sure what your exact reasoning is. I don't understand how it's possible from your POV to conclude that Dizzy's interpretation of your post is only scum-compatible.

Not to be Teamy-teamy with Michelle "even more", but since when does a suspicion have to be 100% all-or-nothing?

It's fair to acknowledge that there's a new layer of WIFOM here that can be validly questioned -- does LC need to jam himself into every discussion of his teammate? I'm inclined to shrug.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I like this post.

i dislike this post. Why do you like an oppinion who it's not true? The reasoning Dizzy posted to vote me it's not a townish way to put things.
I can say "i am town" but I don't trust anyone would believe it. My idea was correct because when someone scumreads based on shallow reasons I have to question the reasons of the read. Svs explained well after we interacted her thoughts, Dizzy took an opportunity to cast a bad vote.

I disagree, I understand Dizzy's logic here. You, as scum, are looking at things with the knowledge that you're scum, so saying "you don't have any reason to scum read me" belies indignation at getting caught for bullshit non-reasons.

no, because he starts from the idea I am scum so he is 'sure' about the read. This is scum tactic, not my observation who just wanted to check Svs's idea there. And look how he pretends he can read me well. I sense it as a fake read made by scum.

Actually, you're right. Dizzy really took it out of context. "... looks like you want to shade me but you can't because you don't have any reason to scum read me." That's talking about S~V~S' perspective, it's not telling her that she doesn't have a reason to scum read you, it's the reason why her shade is weak.

Maybe I'm being dense, but I'm having trouble seeing it that way.

So you only see it as Michelle saying "You shouldn't be accusing me because you have no reason to scum read me."

I don't think that assertion is off-base. It's the implied message of what Michelle said even with the contextual "correction".

Spoiler: show

Epi, who would you like to see lynched instead? Nanook? Tell me more.

Gonna reread Epi, why the Nanook vote?

It's a placeholder really. I don't have a solid investment in lynching Nanook. I did not consider that yesterday was the beginning of his hosting duties.

I don't think anybody has talked about this:

MP7 stamped me a civilian very easily and invoked the subjunctive mood to call Michelle bad.

Discuss.

The Civ stamp didn't even faze me... I feel like the majority of players in any game these days toss out Civ cards like candy, very early on. That's not really how I play, I don't fully understand it... but I've stopped being concerned about it.

As for the subjunctive mood, I don't really like it at all because English isn't Michelle's strength, so how he be attacking her with a grammar term I've never even heard before? I only keep chill about it because MP has been gone a while, and wouldn't know that it's not too legit to be doing to Michelle.

I missed this dialogue about "subjunctive mood" and still don't know what it is. Anyway, log this as an indirect defense of Michelle by way of accusing the accuser.

Spoiler: show

LC posted my favorite gif, he deserves my vote too
[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Michelle put the vote down without much ado, the "favorite gif" thing is a bit sketchy with context... she knew that the check was fake, so she felt the need to give a jokey reason to cast the vote.

Plausible if also an easy accusation. The question of interest here though is are they teammates? The accusation carries some real weight, so that's worth something. I'll have to see what Long Con did with it though.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

Yessss... I see now. Jack and Michelle. Jack allows the lynch to go through on Long Con while pushing hard on his teammate Michelle. When LC flips green, maybe we lynch Nanook, or maybe we follow his leadership and lynch Michelle, probably sealing the towncred for Jack for the rest of the game.

Okay, now it's Jack and Michelle, in response to my Michelle vote. That's not great.

Spoiler: show

I can't speak for everyone, but when I ask myself how I would handle that if I was a mafioso in this setup -- dive on the peek gung-ho without a worry isn't the answer I come up with. I'm speaking mostly about nutella here -- Michelle joined the wagon a bit later in a more awkward fashion. LC mentioned it before with that gif. Instead of "okay cool red peek *vote*", she posted a joke about a gif. That feels less natural.

So you think nutella/Michelle are the baddies.

LC briefly dipped his toes in the nutella/Michelle pool too. Michelle is suspicious, but a second name is tacked with her.

Spoiler: show

I like Jack/Michelle. [VOTE: Jack] aubergine

Long Con joined the anti-Michelle climate, but he never voted for her. When things got hottest, he stuck Jack into the pile and then found a way to vote for him when that wagon inflated.

That's bad.

Spoiler: show

Michelle and nutella are my call for the last baddies.

This has been the prevalent message of Day 3.

~~~

Michelle's stuff not already covered

Spoiler: show

Well if this comes down to english grammar I admit I never learned it, and i never studied this language. Wanna hung me for this?

You were the one picking apart my language though.

You know what, let's just drop it.

I understand how a thread can become hostile towards a townie, and I don't want us to just pummel you into the ground if you are indeed town.

Talk to me more about your reads. I'm sorry I don't quite understand your Dizzy one. Maybe I'll ISO you to see if I can obtain a better understanding another time around.

Dizzy felt unnatural for me. I need to Iso and explain again but for me is 11:40 pm, I am phone posting and i would do it in the morning.

I will explain where I am at with the reads for everyone in random order.
If we take everyone until now, Nutella still leans town, you idk honestly, i hope you are villager but I need a day at least to see where your pushes are going (assuming I am alive until next day).
Nanook is pretty calm but hard to read so he is null, LC i liked how he posted leans town, Svs i think it's my best town read, Mac can be villager too.
Epi idk, the vote on me looked bad but would scum Epi vote me in the first post? More likely he wanted to check me than hung me.
Dizzy I think is scum.

Michelle was vaguely positive on LC in this scrum of reads Day 1 post. This came about one hour after LC's reversal on his interpretation of Dizzy's accusation, for context. There's little else to discern what drove this.

Spoiler: show

LC turned around pretty quickly onto the Michelle train.

Am I on the Michelle train now?

You spoke as if you felt sure she was scum. Perhaps it was hypothetical but it didn't read that way in context.

Maybe it's a scummate that is actually sure she is scum, but doesn't really want to go there so he's tip toeing a bit? Just a wild guess.

Now this is a good post.

If Michelle and I were teammates... like, I'm not afraid to bus. I'm not Michelle's teammate.

Omg he is not my teammate? Then he is scum!

Idk.. LC as mafia writing this post would be a scum claim for my eyes. Because he would know I am villager and he would word it differently.

Is he a player to go for this kind of logic as scum?

I don't know why this LC post would be a "scum claim" -- it fits the tendency of Michelle in this game to voice strong suspicion of seemingly tiny things. She words it as a question of WIFOM though: would LC do such a clearly terrible thing as a mafioso?. That's perhaps more forgiving than she has been of other players when she has made accusations like this.

Spoiler: show

And in case it isn't clear, I will not save myself. The majority minus me will have the result they want.

That sounds like a strategy that would increase your likelihood of losing.

I like this post too. Except they are teammates there is no reason for LC if he is mafia to post this.

Seems like a frivolous post to "like".

Spoiler: show

I feel like everyone should have a pretty developed POE pool right now. There are seven not-yous and two of them are no good. Even two solid civilian reads nets a workable reduction, and I think we can do better than that.

Let's go.

SVS
Jay
MP
Michelle
LC
Epi
Nanook

@Michelle this was sometime after you asked me that. I guess I never responded to you directly, I apologize for that, but if you have read my posts you should have some idea of my reads. To update this a bit, Nanook is tentatively moved up for the claim, Epi is tentatively moved up for probably not killing MP, and the SVS/Jack slot moved down a bit for poe reasons and something that vaguely pinged me when he came into the thread last night. That leaves you and LC as the most likely scum in my eyes.

Cool so Jack went down for a certain not exposed reason, but I am the baddie. With LC. I know LC defended me but that, even if he is scum, doesn't make me scum. You don't look at all interested in solving, but in throwing someone on the chopping block

Michelle dissociated herself from LC, kinda. I don't care about this, y'all might.

Spoiler: show

Looking better at Jack's reads without scum reads it's like a scum claim

[VOTE: Jack/Svs] aubergine

You were suspicious of the people who voted for Mac. What changed?

I think. I don't accept a stale read non deserved.

Can you rephrase this please

I had a TR on Svs day 1. At Eod I said she is not present, and I realised her 'case' on me is fake. Today Jack came but I don't think town Jack would make that reads list. So I am reevaluating an old read because is not deserved.

OK but from my perspective you're only half addressing Jay's question here. You're explaining why Jack became a priority suspect, but you're not explaining why you've completely stopped caring about the Mac train and in fact turned around and shaded me for defending Mac when I thought you agreed with me that the train was bad. Can you talk more about that?

Yes. When the game has players that can each one talk good enough to keep themselves out of suspicion the only clues that can be found in the thread are the TMI moments. I wish to know if your read on Mac is not TMI. I see that wagon on Mac formed by LC, Jay and Nanook. And M7 but that is less important.
Maybe I am idiot but I don't see LC as bad. Jay as much as I took this game from his slot looks not like Jay from the previous game, so idk if he is scum, Nanook is un-cc-ed PR. So.. maybe I am wrong about that wagon.

I try to find answers. But this is bad and everyone put me at the wall like this is a bad thing.

This post sees Michelle explaining her divergence from suspecting the players on the MacDougall wagon. She provides clear reasons for three of the four:

MP is dead.
Jay does not look like the mafia Jay from the GOC.
Nanook claimed a role and wasn't countered.

For Long Con, we get the highlighted thing. "Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't see LC as bad."

Not inspiring.

Spoiler: show

No, I would not be happy if you flipped green. But I increasingly believe that is unlikely and you aren't giving me any better ideas about who to lynch.

I think there is some chance the d1 wagons were all town, but a fairly small one. I think it is more likely that LC or Epi was saved.

Who and how saved them?

Are you saying you think everyone who had votes on d1 is town?

I am not sure. But may be. What if they are all town? The tied wagons I mean.
I know I am villager. I see on you sparkles of towniness who are defeating my paranoia.
I town read LC and Epi.

Long Con continues to get support, and I continue to have no idea why.

Spoiler: show

LC posted my favorite gif, he deserves my vote too
[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

This is the point that may bear the best chance of being assessed. This came after Nanook claimed his red check on Long Con.

The reason is of course silly. What's important though are these contextual factors:

1) The mafia should realize there is no cop in the game if they have paid any attention to the matrix.
2) If Michelle is mafia, then #1 should apply to her.
3) If LC is her teammate, then a frivolous vote of this sort may be harder to justify.

Consider, however, that -- in a theory where these two are the mafia team -- they do know the peek is bogus and LC has to react to it in some seemingly-authentic way. Michelle has to do the same thing, but from the perspective of someone who cannot boast the same "I know I am a civilian, therefore the peek is fake" mindset that could be assigned to Long Con.

Her willingness to join the wagon then, in such a theoretical world, is essentially meaningless. As soon as the ruse is revealed, she is under no obligation to lynch him. And when I consider that in conjunction with the reason she gave -- the damned gif, well those puzzle pieces can fit together decently well.

There's some presupposition necessary to make this point I grant. So I leave y'all to judge for yourselves. It doesn't have to be this way.

Spoiler: show

The main reason I have to associate LC with Michelle is his pretty quick turn around on her D1.

Or POE.

Wrong as usual. Pocketing is a thing in mafia. Buddying a townie made me win games as scum even if my scum game it's not so good.
So LC being scum, why should I be with him?

This is perfectly fair. Anyone is susceptible to being fooled by a "buddying" mafioso. What I don't see though is why Michelle trusted him in the first place. She just did not do a good job at any juncture of making that clear.

Spoiler: show

What a game.
So LC wasn't for real the red check of Nanook.
And Jack playing like that as villager... I did n't expect that.

I should note that, given this post, Michelle was not present when Nanook revealed he had no check on Long Con. So there's room to argue that Michelle really did think the check was authentic and is not teamed with him given that she never returned for the "reveal" that'd benefit her teammate until after the lynch had resolved. She'd have had to leave with the faith that it'd work out.

Spoiler: show

btw. I considered the red on LC real and I saw the gif as him giving up. That's why I didn't mention the claim as reason of vote.
That particular gif is indeed my favorite.

This I can believe, because my initial take on LC's gif was similar. Hence my "well fought LC" comment.

~~~

Conclusion

I'll need to catch my breath after all that. There is quite a lot of shit I took issue with. If I wanted to paint a picture in which Long Con and Michelle are mafia teammates, I don't think I would struggle to do that. The case exists in here.

And yet, I emerge feeling close to no confidence at all in that. It doesn't sit right with me. There's a clash between the evidence in front of me and my intuitive response to that evidence. You'll note a lot of my grievances came in the form of "one could argue" or some such -- because from a robotic external view, there's a case.

But it makes me feel nothing. And I need to feel something.

I will have to review the other combinations to get a sense of comparison.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

has Jackofhearts2005 seen all the claiming stuff? Jack we need to know if you have any counterclaims to whatever is going on here based on the matrix

Remember the conversation about role fishing?

[nutella]

has Jackofhearts2005 seen all the claiming stuff? Jack we need to know if you have any counterclaims to whatever is going on here based on the matrix

Remember the conversation about role fishing?

Oh come on. I was so nervous lynching him when he wasn't here and I hadn't seen any evidence that he was aware of any of the claiming that had occurred. You're imposing scum motive on something that clearly came from a town mindset. I still wish he had logged in before eod and said anything.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Are Long Con and nutella compatible as mafia teammates?

Long Con's stuff

Spoiler: show

Hey y'all I was having a Dominion Game Night and now it's 1:30 am and I'm a bit drunk, but I skimmed through and caught up. Lots of Epi-nutella-Dizzy stuff going on, and I skimmed that Mac post that nutella said was too efforty... nah, I don't really have a grip right now. Gonna get up to bat tomorrow with some carefully thought-out and scholarly analyses.

nutella's name got some meaningless incidental mentions in this post. It's a nothing post. Okay.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

Lay off my scum buddy >: (

[VOTE: Epic nosebleed] aubergine

Did Epi get baited?

What do you mean by this?

Generic question, could be a softball.

Spoiler: show

LC turned around pretty quickly onto the Michelle train.

Am I on the Michelle train now?

Generic question, could be a softball.

Spoiler: show

LC turned around pretty quickly onto the Michelle train.

Am I on the Michelle train now?

You spoke as if you felt sure she was scum. Perhaps it was hypothetical but it didn't read that way in context.

It was about understanding Dizzy's perspective on why "you don't have a reason to think I'm scum" could look bad. Michelle accused Dizzy of illogic, and I don't agree. My opinion on it is that it's slightly scummy-looking when framed like that, but I'm not hopping on the train over it.

It turned into pretty idle chatter with LC explaining his take on Dizzy and Michelle. It means little. Continued

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: NANOOK] aubergine

Let's talk about this guy.

No. You're scum with Michelle.

Spicy.


I'm not so sure about Michelle anymore though.

If you don't mind, briefly explain to me the universes in which Michelle is scum and town, why her behavior fits that alignment, and which one you currently find more believable. Hopefully this will help.

I'm not writing an essay Generally I can find Michelle's town meta pretty easily, and I haven't felt it yet, and a number of her posts have actively pinged me, so I currently find it more believeable that she's scum. That could change.

Hey, I did say briefly.

Thanks though.

Do it nutella. Brief universes. Chop-chop.

I'm not sure if this is exclusively a joke, or an actual prod for nutella to say more about Michelle.

Spoiler: show

What do you think of Epignosis?

I’m voting for him

Fair enough, the blind sheeping. You place a lot of faith in nutella, how is she so town to you?

The tone of this question perturbs me.

Spoiler: show

wow mac is really going hard on this theory

MacDougall This is not too far from her saying you're "too efforty". You were too harsh on a tired drunk LC, and I think you owe me an apology.

Here's a post. I don't care about it.


LC answered a prod from nutella to say why I am worthy of his vote. This fits with the softball theme.

Spoiler: show

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

So, whaddya think? nutella and JJJ jumped right on it. Got'em?

LC is referring to nutella and I jumping in with the fake red check on him. It's not a scathing accusation when I am stuck there with her. I'll see if/how it develops.

Spoiler: show

I can't speak for everyone, but when I ask myself how I would handle that if I was a mafioso in this setup -- dive on the peek gung-ho without a worry isn't the answer I come up with. I'm speaking mostly about nutella here -- Michelle joined the wagon a bit later in a more awkward fashion. LC mentioned it before with that gif. Instead of "okay cool red peek *vote*", she posted a joke about a gif. That feels less natural.

So you think nutella/Michelle are the baddies.

LC seemed to misinterpret me here. I was speaking in nutella's favor, and he extracted that I thought she was bad with Michelle. Regarding their compatibility, this is still nothingness.

Spoiler: show

So we’re in world C

I’m the 2 shot doc, MP got strongmanned N1. I thought fake claiming a red and seeing how things broke would open up the game, especially as I knew two people would know the check wasn’t real. My plan was to then claim tracker at night and try to get my second save off.

Which is partly why I wanted nutella TKed, the way she jumped on the check smelled like someone setting up “TK the ‘red’ check then murder the fake cop.”

I believe Nanook. I don't see a fake doc-claim including this part about MP. He tried to protect MP night 1, and the kill still went through. If this is fake, then I applaud his attention to creative detail.

Talk to me. World C would mean there's a two shot doctor. Right?

No that's not right. I rescind my grin.

what is this

World... C... does have a doctor...

Thank you nutella for giving me an easy post to make.

Spoiler: show

Michelle and nutella are my call for the last baddies.

Day 3. Consider that LC has restricted his reads by eliminating Epi and I, so even if nutella is his teammate he is mechanically obligated to provide this perspective.

Spoiler: show

I submit that the mafia team for this ballgame is nutella and Long Con.

I will explore the latter when opportunity presents itself.

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

Well, you're probably half-right. [VOTE: nutella] aubergine

Epignosis provided a thorough case against nutella and Long Con elected to join the vote. I will interpret this when I see how nutella handled it.

Note: I don't actually know why Long Con views nutella as suspicious. He expanded on Michelle at my request earlier, and so now I request the other side. [mention]Long Con[/mention], why is nutella a mafioso?

~~~

nutella's stuff not already covered

Spoiler: show

Why are Dizzy and I wrong about Long Con?

You have five minutes. Answer immediately and with brevity.

Answer me.

Even after all these years I'm not great at reading LC, so he's sorta null for me, but his posts have an independent/unafraid to speak his mind vibe. I don't see a scum agenda.

It's a waffle that leans positive. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Long Con bailed on the game when I showed up to change his mind about my slot.

Nope. You're doing a great job as Dizzy's replacement, by the way. You sound just like him.

...huh

Dramatic ellipsis and potential softball.

Spoiler: show

nutella, assume for a moment that Epignosis doesn't exist. Who are you lynching now?

Ugh probably LC but i don't feel great about it. I just have more reasons to townread everyone else.

Epi referenced this earlier. It's a deviation from the "positive waffle" earlier. If nutella really viewed Long Con as the second-preferred lynch after Epignosis despite what she'd just said about him, then she'd have to have had a civilian read on every single player except Epignosis. That's hard to believe, particularly given her handling of Michelle. That's more a pure assessment of her honesty though; as it pertains to their compatibility -- without action, this adds no real pressure to Long Con.

Spoiler: show

This is gonna suck when mac flips town and I just saved both mafia LC and Epi or some shit like that

Very easy post to suspish-emoji. Perhaps Nanook's assertion was accurate.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Why is this unproductive? Laying out an opinion before the lynch post goes up lets people know where you are re the lynch to come. I am honestly perplexed by this, telling someone how to post. Have things changed that much since I last played?

We have no idea what the flip is. I honestly hate that kind of stuff; it shows an agenda. IMO a townie should re-evaluate at every flip regardless of preconceived notions.

It's all my opinion, SVS. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. I'm voicing my opinions just like anyone else does.

I think I fixed it.

Anyway, to add to this train of thought re: nutella specifically, I dislike that kind of statement in general always for all time, but I dislike it more coming from her. I understand I haven't played with nutella in a while, but one of my favorite things about her town game is her ability to re-assess, and so I find it incompatible with her town game if she says stuff like that.

Why? I townread you and nanook before that shitshow, so how is that not reassessing

You didn't wait until the flip happened, and it also seems closed-minded to me as if you're only evaluating our final impact (the vote) as opposed to the totality of posts.

Yeah I realized you had more history of suspecting Mac so I do think Nanook looks a lot worse for pushing the cfd. I think it looked like a save of LC or Epi.

2x TMI if Long Con is a mafioso. Not only was Mac obviously a civilian, but his lynch was driven to save a mafioso among LC and Epi. Were it not for the clearance following the MP kill, I wonder if she'd have kept her foot on the gas in that Epi tunnel here.

Spoiler: show

I feel like everyone should have a pretty developed POE pool right now. There are seven not-yous and two of them are no good. Even two solid civilian reads nets a workable reduction, and I think we can do better than that.

Let's go.

SVS
Jay
MP
Michelle
LC
Epi
Nanook

Michelle this was sometime after you asked me that. I guess I never responded to you directly, I apologize for that, but if you have read my posts you should have some idea of my reads. To update this a bit, Nanook is tentatively moved up for the claim, Epi is tentatively moved up for probably not killing MP, and the SVS/Jack slot moved down a bit for poe reasons and something that vaguely pinged me when he came into the thread last night. That leaves you and LC as the most likely scum in my eyes.

In light of this rainbow, nutella expanded: Michelle and LC were the lead suspects with Jack~V~S as an alternative. In isolation this means little to me. POE was restrictive.

Spoiler: show

No, I would not be happy if you flipped green. But I increasingly believe that is unlikely and you aren't giving me any better ideas about who to lynch.

I think there is some chance the d1 wagons were all town, but a fairly small one. I think it is more likely that LC or Epi was saved.

Huh.... wait something's not adding up. If LC or Epi was saved then Michelle isn't their teammate. Assuming it was a save means the team has to be either exactly LC and Epi, or one of them and Jay (who I find very unlikely to be scum here) -- assuming Nanook's claim is true.


If Michelle is scum maybe she's right about the wagons, or maybe LC or Epi is her partner and just got lucky.

I guess the save theory loses points due to Nanook being cleared.

So Michelle, maybe they were all town, and maybe you knew that all along.

Or you're hard defending your teammate LC

Michelle can you describe why you townread LC and Epi? And don't just tell me you've explained in previous posts, I just want your current reasoning in a few words.

Also, who does that leave in your poe, Jack and Jay? I particularly have a hard time seeing Jay as bad here especially with all the role hunting stuff that went over my head. Do you think he could be bad? If not you may need to reevaluate some townreads. Unless you haven't cleared Nanook, in which case you need to speak up.

This string of posts dissolves the theory that there was a save of LC (which absolves him) and then only maintains some of that suspicion by way of association with Michelle. Michelle was the one facing all of the pressure here.

Spoiler: show

This is why Down With Ketchup is the one true way.

You can have both though!! I regularly post as Jack does, responding to things as I read while missing current thread information, but I still make every effort to read every post in the game so I don't miss anything.


Anyway [VOTE: lc] aubergine since it looks like nanook means it. Still think Michelle is extremely likely the other one.

This is, once again, a point of high interest. If nutella is a mafioso, she knows the peek is fake. In that regard, the arguments one can construct here mirror closely the ones that also applied to Michelle in the previous analysis.

The highlighted portion does portend a direction for nutella's movement when the peek is revealed to be false. And here it is.

Spoiler: show

have I been fooled? was Nanook lying all along?

I'm not good enough with this kind of setup/counterclaim stuff to understand what could be happening here. Are Nanook and LC scum together and pulling some kind of... well, long con?

Jay help me out lol

This is ugly at face value. The yellow thing literally looks like someone pretending to discover something new that they were already well aware of lol.

The orange thing just looks like bullshit. Why is that a theory that should emerge from those shenanigans?

Spoiler: show

Like I’m not saying I TR Michelle, but I’d kill Nutella first.

Well you'd be wrong

I like LC's Michelle/Jack theory.

Or LC is just Michelle's teammate after all.

I don't know why she crammed that last sentence in there. Looks forced.

Spoiler: show

I need @nutella to speak for her own damned self. I've made that mistake before. If you're good, tell us who isn't.

Michelle and Jack seems likely to me. Or like I said before Michelle and LC though LC's response to all this looks genuinely solvey. Unless he and Nanook are pulling a huge one over on us but that's significant tinfoil.

It feels like nutella is mentioning LC as a possible suspect out of obligation instead of any perspective she has actually developed.

Spoiler: show

Well I know it's not me and I think Jack/Michelle is most likely but like I'm not sure. I guess I have to pick either you, LC, or Epi to replace my name in the poe, and my gut still says LC I guess.

This was in response to my call for protests in the event that I was wrong to have a final POE of Jack/nutella/Michelle. nutella had voted Jack. Of the remaining names she extracted LC on the basis of "gut", which seems rather in conflict with the previous post in this review. "genuinely solvey" suggests some gut/intuitive trust.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis is a civilian. He's wrong about me. I dunno if he's wrong about Nanook with that wack shit. There's a potential claim war there. If not, then it's an unfortunate and unnecessary mess. I doubt he killed MP for the same reason I didn't.

Long Con, I lean civilian. I think he handled the fake peek pretty well. Mafia members tend to freak out about those things or otherwise counterclaim. I've been there, and I didn't behave the way LC did. I also don't count him as likely to kill MP.

Nanook is a civilian unless he is countered.

nutella and Michelle are what's left. I'll have to check again on their compatibility. Bussing isn't crazy in a tiny game like this one.

I'm not scum. I don't know what to tell you but I think you are clearing LC too easily. I think it's him and Michelle.

Maybe so.

nutella has remained consistent in this regard. When she has spoken of the Michelle/LC pairing though, Michelle has taken the brunt of her criticism and suspicion. LC is mentioned as a sort of default secondary thing.

Spoiler: show

Huh. Looking at that again made me want to explore the possible Jay/LC world. Jay replaced in somewhere in that day after Dizzy had voted for LC, and he eventually landed on the Mac wagon (which can be interpreted as a save of LC, or of Epi, or of me as we were all at two votes before). I just looked through Dizzy's posts before Jay replaced him and his LC interactions are not particularly inspiring. I'll look further into Jay/LC interactions post-replacement and see how I feel, but I'm thinking that team is increasingly likely since Michelle seems to be actually trying to solve here.

Ugh since I can't trust Jay and since he won't do his own interactive analyses I guess I have to be responsible and look at all his potential pairings. If the team is just Michelle and LC my job is easier

nutella then spent at least one post talking about LC and I on a team. Considering the way he and I treated each other and the way he and Dizzy treated each other, that vague "not particularly inspiring" take she pulled out looks bogus. More importantly though, a trend continues: she nearly never mentions LC as a suspect in isolation. There's always a name stuck alongside him.

Because of that, it's never clear exactly why nutella feels Long Con is suspicious. I could recite considerably clearer suspicions she has had of Michelle and of me -- and yet Long Con is the common denominator in these theories. I really don't like that.

~~~

Conclusion

Like with Michelle and Long Con, I think there's a case that can be made here. nutella and Long Con fit together appropriately. What's different this time though is that I do feel something from this assessment. I don't have to merely "acknowledge" the validity of certain possibilities or theories because one could state them. Instead I just state them, because it adds up. My instincts are more aligned with the evidence in this one.

Long Con and nutella can be mafia teammates.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

has Jackofhearts2005 seen all the claiming stuff? Jack we need to know if you have any counterclaims to whatever is going on here based on the matrix

Remember the conversation about role fishing?

Oh come on. I was so nervous lynching him when he wasn't here and I hadn't seen any evidence that he was aware of any of the claiming that had occurred. You're imposing scum motive on something that clearly came from a town mindset. I still wish he had logged in before eod and said anything.

That's a bad sentence.

[nutella]

Your instincts are wrong Like, yeah, I can see why my LC interactions don't look great, because I'm never super confident about my read of him. Like I said I've always had a hard time reading him. He's just been sort of generally in my POE for most of the game.

[nutella]

has Jackofhearts2005 seen all the claiming stuff? Jack we need to know if you have any counterclaims to whatever is going on here based on the matrix

Remember the conversation about role fishing?

Oh come on. I was so nervous lynching him when he wasn't here and I hadn't seen any evidence that he was aware of any of the claiming that had occurred. You're imposing scum motive on something that clearly came from a town mindset. I still wish he had logged in before eod and said anything.

That's a bad sentence.

why?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Your instincts are wrong Like, yeah, I can see why my LC interactions don't look great, because I'm never super confident about my read of him. Like I said I've always had a hard time reading him. He's just been sort of generally in my POE for most of the game.

You're no longer in a game state where you have to wiggle about on instincts. There is a wealth of analytic evidence, whatever you may think of it. What do you think is the best case that Long Con is a mafioso?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

has Jackofhearts2005 seen all the claiming stuff? Jack we need to know if you have any counterclaims to whatever is going on here based on the matrix

Remember the conversation about role fishing?

Oh come on. I was so nervous lynching him when he wasn't here and I hadn't seen any evidence that he was aware of any of the claiming that had occurred. You're imposing scum motive on something that clearly came from a town mindset. I still wish he had logged in before eod and said anything.

That's a bad sentence.

why?

You didn't have to be role fishing. It's one possible interpretation among others.

When you tell me that it was clearly coming from a town mindset though, I actually snort. Give me a break.

[nutella]

Your instincts are wrong Like, yeah, I can see why my LC interactions don't look great, because I'm never super confident about my read of him. Like I said I've always had a hard time reading him. He's just been sort of generally in my POE for most of the game.

You're no longer in a game state where you have to wiggle about on instincts. There is a wealth of analytic evidence, whatever you may think of it. What do you think is the best case that Long Con is a mafioso?

His reaction to Nanook's fake peek didn't feel natural.
He is compatible with Michelle, who is my other top suspect. (Yeah that's POE not a reason but whatever, you made the analysis so I'm not going to restate all the points there.)
His relation to the Mac wagon (both as a participant and a beneficiary) looked sketchy.

[nutella]

has Jackofhearts2005 seen all the claiming stuff? Jack we need to know if you have any counterclaims to whatever is going on here based on the matrix

Remember the conversation about role fishing?

Oh come on. I was so nervous lynching him when he wasn't here and I hadn't seen any evidence that he was aware of any of the claiming that had occurred. You're imposing scum motive on something that clearly came from a town mindset. I still wish he had logged in before eod and said anything.

That's a bad sentence.

why?

You didn't have to be role fishing. It's one possible interpretation among others.

When you tell me that it was clearly coming from a town mindset though, I actually snort. Give me a break.

Well it's clear to me. Surely you were also frustrated at Jack's absence? Or is your mindset not town?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well it's clear to me. Surely you were also frustrated at Jack's absence? Or is your mindset not town?

Sure. If I had my way, nobody would ever miss any EOD ever.

"clearly" is a shitty word in that sentence

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Your instincts are wrong Like, yeah, I can see why my LC interactions don't look great, because I'm never super confident about my read of him. Like I said I've always had a hard time reading him. He's just been sort of generally in my POE for most of the game.

You're no longer in a game state where you have to wiggle about on instincts. There is a wealth of analytic evidence, whatever you may think of it. What do you think is the best case that Long Con is a mafioso?

His reaction to Nanook's fake peek didn't feel natural.
He is compatible with Michelle, who is my other top suspect. (Yeah that's POE not a reason but whatever, you made the analysis so I'm not going to restate all the points there.)
His relation to the Mac wagon (both as a participant and a beneficiary) looked sketchy.

Who should be lynched first?

[nutella]

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention]
What's the number one reason you can't be mafia teammates with Long Con?
What's the number one reason you can't be mafia teammates with Michelle?

[nutella]

Your instincts are wrong Like, yeah, I can see why my LC interactions don't look great, because I'm never super confident about my read of him. Like I said I've always had a hard time reading him. He's just been sort of generally in my POE for most of the game.

You're no longer in a game state where you have to wiggle about on instincts. There is a wealth of analytic evidence, whatever you may think of it. What do you think is the best case that Long Con is a mafioso?

His reaction to Nanook's fake peek didn't feel natural.
He is compatible with Michelle, who is my other top suspect. (Yeah that's POE not a reason but whatever, you made the analysis so I'm not going to restate all the points there.)
His relation to the Mac wagon (both as a participant and a beneficiary) looked sketchy.

Who should be lynched first?

Depends on your answers to my above questions. Whichever of LC or Michelle is more compatible with you has a higher chance of being scum (even if I think the team is probably exactly those two, I have to weigh that in somehow).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JaggedJimmyJay
What's the number one reason you can't be mafia teammates with Long Con?
What's the number one reason you can't be mafia teammates with Michelle?

It should be pretty apparent that I am not Long Con's teammate given not only the violence between the two of us, but the violence that preceded between he and Dizzy. It's not just mutual distrust -- it's righteous indignation, it's pissing me off with sarcasm, and it's my initial belief that Nanook's red check on him was real.

When I've accused Michelle, her responses have often stopped short of full-on No-U. If she is a mafioso, she has shown trepidation in returning fire -- perhaps fearing the volume of my voice at EODs.

[nutella]

JaggedJimmyJay
What's the number one reason you can't be mafia teammates with Long Con?
What's the number one reason you can't be mafia teammates with Michelle?

It should be pretty apparent that I am not Long Con's teammate given not only the violence between the two of us, but the violence that preceded between he and Dizzy. It's not just mutual distrust -- it's righteous indignation, it's pissing me off with sarcasm, and it's my initial belief that Nanook's red check on him was real.

When I've accused Michelle, her responses have often stopped short of full-on No-U. If she is a mafioso, she has shown trepidation in returning fire -- perhaps fearing the volume of my voice at EODs.

I don't recall much violence between him and Dizzy. It was mostly softball as far as I could tell, until Dizzy ended up voting for him right before you replaced in, and you made sure that vote didn't stick when it mattered. That being said, I do recall your fiery spat later on, and yeah, that probably wasn't scum theatre since you seemed legitimately frustrated.

Your argument about Michelle doesn't do much for me. That sounds like a reasonable for her to treat you if you were teammates.

[nutella]

[VOTE: michelle] aubergine

[nutella]

We absolutely need consensus among the three townies at EOD, so I will obviously switch to LC if need be.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: michelle] aubergine

The basis for your vote is my report on my own compatibility -- something I have no reason to think about at all until you ask me.

It's not based upon your review of that compatibility on your own terms.

What?

[nutella]

[VOTE: michelle] aubergine

The basis for your vote is my report on my own compatibility -- something I have no reason to think about at all until you ask me.

It's not based upon your review of that compatibility on your own terms.

What?

I'm lazy. I'll do more looking into it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Are Michelle and nutella compatible as mafia teammates?

Michelle's stuff

Spoiler: show

I think i will dig in Wiki infos about this sport.

Until now I have a secret TR and a town lean on Nutella for the ping !

I'm not sure what this is about, but okay.

Spoiler: show

Idk maybe Dizzy was just right in the first place and Michelle is bad actually

Nut posting that at 4 am for me smh. When said Dizzy I am bad?

Softball response to a half-accusation.

Spoiler: show

Let me rephrase

I'm blindly sheeping nutella's vote and idc what the garbage reason for it is

Why you don't care?

nutella is incidentally relevant. I don't care; readers might.

Spoiler: show

I don't want you to take offense, but if I knew nothing about baseball, your explanation about the designated hitter would only confuse me more. American League? What is that? Are all the teams American? etc. Michelle's reaction to your explanation sounded like, "Okay, we can check off interacting with one another" to me.

As someone who knows very little about baseball I thought her explanation made enough sense Plus, I agree with SVS in general that Michelle seemed to be putting too much effort into understanding the n0 poll when it turned out it had no effect on the game. I didn't try to make an educated guess, I voted the option that nobody else voted for so I apparently had the wrong opinion, but who cares it doesn't matter. Michelle took it more seriously. To be fair she just came from LC/BR's game where night polls did stuff, but still the dedication to do wikipedia research or whatever felt silly.

Good to know is silly to search something you know nothing about.
You all are overreacting at my curiosity here.
And at least one is scum in this push for me.

Michelle responded with suspicion to the unnamed group of people suspecting her for Day 0 stuff. nutella was one of them; that's only clear given the name in the quote.

Spoiler: show

For me, she seems to be trying too hard.

this word, "seems" looks like you want to shade me but you can't because you don't have any reason to scum read me.

Second, this is scum language. It's "you don't have a reason to think I'm scum" instead of "I'm town".
I also agree that Michelle vibes kawaiii in the worst way in the very start of the game.

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I like this post.

i dislike this post. Why do you like an oppinion who it's not true? The reasoning Dizzy posted to vote me it's not a townish way to put things.
I can say "i am town" but I don't trust anyone would believe it. My idea was correct because when someone scumreads based on shallow reasons I have to question the reasons of the read. Svs explained well after we interacted her thoughts, Dizzy took an opportunity to cast a bad vote.

hmmmm I dislike this post


why isn't MP allowed to agree with Dizzy? also, I made a post nearly identical to this, quoting dizzy and agreeing, and you didn't acknowledge it

it didn't ping me, probably for a reason. Quote it to me please and I will tell you why.

This exchange doesn't look like an association to me. nutella pulled the "I posted this kind of thing too, why am I not evil?" prod, and I don't think that's a standard approach to distancing. Small point.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Why? I don't think she sounds anything like her towny self. Her shade of me is grasping at straws.

/cents.

How do you feel Michelle would be replying to your suspicion if she were town?

Maybe I am an idiot who don't understand but since I know I am town your wording is very bad for my eyes.
I am not even Esl so I may get things wrong but the way you put it is like you lock me scum and I wish to know why.

This is absolutely reaching. I'm talking to Dizzy, who has a perspective that you ARE scum.

It's called subjunctive mood.

These kind of posts are why I read you as scum. They aren't genuine. You're just throwing shade everywhere.

[VOTE: MICHELLE] aubergine

Everywhere is too much of a strech, sir! You started to tunnel me and if you think I am not genuine you are extremely wrong.
I think we never played before so you know nothing about me but you don't bother to find out.

I will gladly admit that I've tunneled plenty of times and it's turned out with mixed results, so I'm open to re-considering if you can supply me with the reason to do so.

I don't believe we have either, but I enjoy playing with new people.

Self-meta is a thing, and I'll take it for what it's worth, but how would you say your town game differs from your scum game?

Ask Nutella and she will say this to you.

I disagree with self meta as much as I disagree with day 1 associative reads.

Michelle invoked nutella to back up a self-meta (which was to disparage self-meta), suggesting Michelle trusts nutella at least as an authority on how she plays. This again doesn't look like typical teammate interaction.

Spoiler: show

Well if this comes down to english grammar I admit I never learned it, and i never studied this language. Wanna hung me for this?

You were the one picking apart my language though.

You know what, let's just drop it.

I understand how a thread can become hostile towards a townie, and I don't want us to just pummel you into the ground if you are indeed town.

Talk to me more about your reads. I'm sorry I don't quite understand your Dizzy one. Maybe I'll ISO you to see if I can obtain a better understanding another time around.

Dizzy felt unnatural for me. I need to Iso and explain again but for me is 11:40 pm, I am phone posting and i would do it in the morning.

I will explain where I am at with the reads for everyone in random order.
If we take everyone until now, Nutella still leans town, you idk honestly, i hope you are villager but I need a day at least to see where your pushes are going (assuming I am alive until next day).
Nanook is pretty calm but hard to read so he is null, LC i liked how he posted leans town, Svs i think it's my best town read, Mac can be villager too.
Epi idk, the vote on me looked bad but would scum Epi vote me in the first post? More likely he wanted to check me than hung me.
Dizzy I think is scum.

As is too often the case with Michelle, here's a read and I don't know what inspired it. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Wtf is going on nobody feels like themselves

Found this while looking at Dizzy's posts. Looks like town frustration, scum would speculate this fact instead pointing it.
Nut going near Svs in my reads.

If I recall correctly, this was a strong support of nutella -- given that Michelle also felt good about S~V~S (at least early in the game). Both S~V~S and nutella had voiced some suspicion of Michelle, so it's a dually-magnanimous reception. S~V~S was a civilian; that could suggest dissociation.

Spoiler: show

Nut, I know you are town. Or I at the very least think I know and that is all I can pray for. Look me in the eyes and take my hand. Would I ever be scum? Would I ever morder you in your sleep? Of course not! The very thought is absurd. I need you to know this. You're my only friends here.

TMI plus a pockety attitude.

Noticed the sub, i am posting this for now.

Michelle accused Dizzy of TMI when they called nutella town. If Michelle is a mafioso, this accusation only works if she has TMI. So that's something.

Spoiler: show

subjunctive, fuck.

You used "was" instead of "were"

Nut share your reads pls

Prods 'n' things

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Nut] aubergine

Could still be okay with a Michelle lynch but I feel like her townie posts balance out her icky ones at this point.

I didn't post icky. If you are fine with my lynch then you are bad.

[VOTE: Nut] aubergine

Could still be okay with a Michelle lynch but I feel like her townie posts balance out her icky ones at this point.

I didn't post icky. If you are fine with my lynch then you are bad.

Nutes/me/SVS can’t all be bad

I town read all of you until Nut ignored my question earlier and said she is ok with my lynch.
So what's your point?

[VOTE: Nut] aubergine

Could still be okay with a Michelle lynch but I feel like her townie posts balance out her icky ones at this point.

I didn't post icky. If you are fine with my lynch then you are bad.

These are the posts that initially made me suspicious of you, by the way. Would you say you're very reactive like this normally?

yes

[VOTE: Nut] aubergine

Could still be okay with a Michelle lynch but I feel like her townie posts balance out her icky ones at this point.

I didn't post icky. If you are fine with my lynch then you are bad.

Eh? Is a civilian nutella invulnerable to errors?

Yes when is about the player whe knows better my meta in this game.

I tried to stay caught up today, but the thread started moving too fast.

anyone have a tl;dr on why LC is getting votes? Is it just to save Jay?

@Dyslexicon Hope everything is OK with you, I will miss you, you made the thread a fun place.

I always find it disconcertingwhen one or two people take over a thread. I felt good about Dizzy though, so BOTD for now. i am gonna try to catch up totally, but for now am OK with my vote where it is.

linki,

[VOTE: Nut] aubergine

Could still be okay with a Michelle lynch but I feel like her townie posts balance out her icky ones at this point.

I didn't post icky. If you are fine with my lynch then you are bad.

Nutes/me/SVS can’t all be bad

I town read all of you until Nut ignored my question earlier and said she is ok with my lynch.
So what's your point?

You said earlier that me and Nanook were two of your stronger town reads, yet we have both voted for you. You seem to be able to separate suspicion of you from a person being bad in those case, why not nutellas? Did I miss something? I admit I am not fully caught up.

Nutella is the player who knows me better than anyone in this game. I have small expectations from anyone else.to read me based on meta.

Things take a severe turn here. nutella had voiced a little suspicion of nutella previously, but as soon as the word "lynch" appeared, Michelle lost her shit and turned hard against nutella. This continues the trend: I think this looks compatible with a civilian Michelle responding to wrongness, or a mafioso Michelle trying to fend off a civilian suspicion -- it looks less like the distancing of teammates. Michelle holds nutella to a very high standard here, fairly or not.

Spoiler: show

Sorry to butt in

Bless you for butting in

Jay, what do you think about the last 3 mins changes of wagons?

I probably think less of it than many. I rarely find "X saved Y" type suspicions compelling, and I don't think a last-minute hot potato (this barely qualifies as that) implies someone was being saved or whatever. More people viewed Mac as a viable lynch than viewed LC or others as a viable lynch. I viewed Mac as an acceptable choice too.

Generally I don't think votes are a great place to look for mafia. I may be unorthodox in that way, but I know from much experience that votes are the easiest thing mafia members can use to manipulate games. They're so easy to screw with and lead people on goose chases. So I focus on behavioral assessment more than votes.

I think it's too early indeed to talk about this so soon but those 3 mins made me think if my vote was well placed and talking about it, not if I could change anything, I doubt now i voted a wolf. Nut was asking everyone to not vote Mac, if she would be wolf what good would bring to the pack to fight for the life of a villager?

I wonder if any wagon was for a wolf and if not, the change of votes was either an action of villagers, either made with wolves help.

After Day 1 ended, Michelle relented. The read is a bit topsy-turvy.

Spoiler: show

If S~V~S is good, then my one-hour POE already feels decent at:

MacDougall
nutella
Long Con
Nanook

I was strong town reading nutella, but I’m finding it strange we can’t connect on our views and I’m also not see that intense revelation she can have as a townie, so I’m increasingly worried there. I’m torn though because I still feel like she’s been for the most part really trying to figure people out. What’s your more detailed opinion of her?

nutella is going to have to give me a lot more to earn that kind of credit. She has done some shit in recent games.

can you explain the cyan please?

Prodded me about nutella. Don't care.

Spoiler: show

Wat

You still didn't share your reads iirc.

Prod a la mode

Spoiler: show

Yeah I'm getting unusually sketchy vibes from a lot of Michelle's posts. This far into the game and I haven't felt the screen scream "Michelle is town" at me yet -- means she's probably not.

[VOTE: michelle] aubergine

you ignored me until now. As expected.

I mean, Nut, how did you know Mac is villager when everyone wanted him lynched?

Why didn't you answer at my questions?

Why you expected a wagon to be formed to vote me?

Why are you underwhelming? nutella

Yeah I'm getting unusually sketchy vibes from a lot of Michelle's posts. This far into the game and I haven't felt the screen scream "Michelle is town" at me yet -- means she's probably not.

[VOTE: michelle] aubergine

you ignored me until now. As expected.

No? I believe I've stated a few times that you were in my poe and that you haven't caused me to townread you

You ignored my questions. So yes, you ignored me. Doesn't matter how many times you read me wrong, I know I told you at least once about this and I don't remember to see an answer at my post.

What if Nut is scum with Jack?

I did not purposefully ignore you. I do not know what questions you are referring to. Come on.

There is no possibility, for no one on this forum, to not see a quoted post. Come on.

Town
Jack
Nutella
Dys/Jay
.....
Nanook
Epi
.....
Michelle
LC
.....
.....
Scum




Unless both power roles are in Nutella and Jay, we can pretty well guarantee a wolf lynch today since there's very likely 2 wolves in a 4 player POE and two innocent children.

How do you know there may be 2 PRs?

Like this, this is fake shade. Yeah, there are possibilities in the matrix for only one town PR and an extra vanilla, but are you suggesting that Jack assuming there are two is a slip or something? I don't get it. Lame attempt at a gotcha.

Why are you so concerned about Jack?

Back to suspicion. It's a roller coaster. Again this looks more like a) civilian indignation or b) fighting off a civilian who is right. Neither works for a mafia team with both of them. She even gave nutella shit for missing a post that had been quoted. When things get that petty, I tend to be moved toward dissociation.

Spoiler: show

I did not purposefully ignore you. I do not know what questions you are referring to. Come on.

There is no possibility, for no one on this forum, to not see a quoted post. Come on.

I still don't know what you're talking about. When was it? Help me out?

I can't search on phone so fast. Look at your notifications

Looking better at Jack's reads without scum reads it's like a scum claim

[VOTE: Jack/Svs] aubergine

You were suspicious of the people who voted for Mac. What changed?

I think. I don't accept a stale read non deserved.

Can you rephrase this please

I had a TR on Svs day 1. At Eod I said she is not present, and I realised her 'case' on me is fake. Today Jack came but I don't think town Jack would make that reads list. So I am reevaluating an old read because is not deserved.

Wat

You still didn't share your reads iirc.

This? Is it just you asking me to share my reads? I did so. You must have missed it

not just that, I am sure there are more.

Town
Jack
Nutella
Dys/Jay
.....
Nanook
Epi
.....
Michelle
LC
.....
.....
Scum




Unless both power roles are in Nutella and Jay, we can pretty well guarantee a wolf lynch today since there's very likely 2 wolves in a 4 player POE and two innocent children.

How do you know there may be 2 PRs?

Like this, this is fake shade. Yeah, there are possibilities in the matrix for only one town PR and an extra vanilla, but are you suggesting that Jack assuming there are two is a slip or something? I don't get it. Lame attempt at a gotcha.

Why are you so concerned about Jack?

What?

What make you say it's fake shade? I didn't adress at you more than the discontent of you ignoring my posts. and when I attack Jack you have something to tell me so fast.
So you are concerned about Jack.

I feel like everyone should have a pretty developed POE pool right now. There are seven not-yous and two of them are no good. Even two solid civilian reads nets a workable reduction, and I think we can do better than that.

Let's go.

SVS
Jay
MP
Michelle
LC
Epi
Nanook

@Michelle this was sometime after you asked me that. I guess I never responded to you directly, I apologize for that, but if you have read my posts you should have some idea of my reads. To update this a bit, Nanook is tentatively moved up for the claim, Epi is tentatively moved up for probably not killing MP, and the SVS/Jack slot moved down a bit for poe reasons and something that vaguely pinged me when he came into the thread last night. That leaves you and LC as the most likely scum in my eyes.

Cool so Jack went down for a certain not exposed reason, but I am the baddie. With LC. I know LC defended me but that, even if he is scum, doesn't make me scum. You don't look at all interested in solving, but in throwing someone on the chopping block

I'm not concerned that you're attacking Jack. He could be bad. I'm concerned that your method of doing so is baseless garbage.

I am not deflecting, I see you defending Jack. I see Jack having most probably TMI and presenting infos he shouldn't know.
Idk how to talk better. Is that a good reason to hung me?

Looking better at Jack's reads without scum reads it's like a scum claim

[VOTE: Jack/Svs] aubergine

You were suspicious of the people who voted for Mac. What changed?

I think. I don't accept a stale read non deserved.

Can you rephrase this please

I had a TR on Svs day 1. At Eod I said she is not present, and I realised her 'case' on me is fake. Today Jack came but I don't think town Jack would make that reads list. So I am reevaluating an old read because is not deserved.

OK but from my perspective you're only half addressing Jay's question here. You're explaining why Jack became a priority suspect, but you're not explaining why you've completely stopped caring about the Mac train and in fact turned around and shaded me for defending Mac when I thought you agreed with me that the train was bad. Can you talk more about that?

Yes. When the game has players that can each one talk good enough to keep themselves out of suspicion the only clues that can be found in the thread are the TMI moments. I wish to know if your read on Mac is not TMI. I see that wagon on Mac formed by LC, Jay and Nanook. And M7 but that is less important.
Maybe I am idiot but I don't see LC as bad. Jay as much as I took this game from his slot looks not like Jay from the previous game, so idk if he is scum, Nanook is un-cc-ed PR. So.. maybe I am wrong about that wagon.

I try to find answers. But this is bad and everyone put me at the wall like this is a bad thing.

I'm not concerned that you're attacking Jack. He could be bad. I'm concerned that your method of doing so is baseless garbage.

I am not deflecting, I see you defending Jack. I see Jack having most probably TMI and presenting infos he shouldn't know.
Idk how to talk better. Is that a good reason to hung me?

I don't view what he said as TMI. I feel like you're purposefully ignoring what my actual point is.

Explain your point, mayne i didn't get it.

Remarkably, all of these posts are consecutive within Michelle's post history. This is a real-time exchange that elapsed 28 minutes from 1:09 PM to 1:37 PM my time. If they're teammates, then that means this would have to be pretty elaborate theater. I have my doubts.

Spoiler: show

I'm not concerned that you're attacking Jack. He could be bad. I'm concerned that your method of doing so is baseless garbage.

I am not deflecting, I see you defending Jack. I see Jack having most probably TMI and presenting infos he shouldn't know.
Idk how to talk better. Is that a good reason to hung me?

I don't view what he said as TMI. I feel like you're purposefully ignoring what my actual point is.

Explain your point, mayne i didn't get it.

To me it looked like you were calling out Jack saying "both PRs" as potential TMI/slip. I think that's an unfair judgment to make on his wording. There's no reason not to assume there are two PRs.

Was the meaning of his post that he 'assumed'?. I think it looked like an affirmative sentence without doubt.

I was convinced he is lying.

Alright cool. You said that this was suspicious to you, that Dizzy lied about the role cop role. Why do you think a mafia Dizzy would lie about that? What do they gain from that lie?

Idk. What would i gain from accusing him based on a wrong perception?

Yikes this is bad

Why?

I was convinced he is lying.

Alright cool. You said that this was suspicious to you, that Dizzy lied about the role cop role. Why do you think a mafia Dizzy would lie about that? What do they gain from that lie?

Idk. What would i gain from accusing him based on a wrong perception?

Yikes this is bad

Why?

You punted on the question and instead threw it back to jay with "why would I do this if I were bad" when imo the answer to that is fairly obvious.

No it's not. Obvious is the need to obtain a mislynch. Why are we fighting here? Do you push now for my lynch, imagine my green flip, will you be happy for it?
Why were yesterday the equality until 3 mins before Eod and Epi, LC, Mac and you were at 2 votes ?
Maybe a wolf wasn't in immediate danger.

Did you think at it?

Idk. What would i gain from accusing him based on a wrong perception?

Yikes this is bad

Why?

You punted on the question and instead threw it back to jay with "why would I do this if I were bad" when imo the answer to that is fairly obvious.

No it's not. Obvious is the need to obtain a mislynch. Why are we fighting here? Do you push now for my lynch, imagine my green flip, will you be happy for it?
Why were yesterday the equality until 3 mins before Eod and Epi, LC, Mac and you were at 2 votes ?
Maybe a wolf wasn't in immediate danger.

Did you think at it?

Sorry I don't understand the question

Are you sure about that?

Yikes this is bad

Why?

You punted on the question and instead threw it back to jay with "why would I do this if I were bad" when imo the answer to that is fairly obvious.

No it's not. Obvious is the need to obtain a mislynch. Why are we fighting here? Do you push now for my lynch, imagine my green flip, will you be happy for it?
Why were yesterday the equality until 3 mins before Eod and Epi, LC, Mac and you were at 2 votes ?
Maybe a wolf wasn't in immediate danger.

Did you think at it?

Sorry I don't understand the question

Are you sure about that?

I have to admit i didn't structured it well.
What is yellow is your question and my answer. I don't think is obvious.
From the green part is my oppinion.I think you beat around the bush about scum reading me and you should focus on more evident scum actions than my words, which can be (is not the first time) easy to misinterpret because of the way I am wording my posts.

I say I flip town and I wonder if you will be happy to see my green flip.

I show you that with 3 mins before Eod the wagons were tied at 2 votes. One idea is that no mafia was in danger. What do you think about this?

No, I would not be happy if you flipped green. But I increasingly believe that is unlikely and you aren't giving me any better ideas about who to lynch.

I think there is some chance the d1 wagons were all town, but a fairly small one. I think it is more likely that LC or Epi was saved.

Who and how saved them?

Are you saying you think everyone who had votes on d1 is town?

I am not sure. But may be. What if they are all town? The tied wagons I mean.
I know I am villager. I see on you sparkles of towniness who are defeating my paranoia.
I town read LC and Epi.

So Michelle, maybe they were all town, and maybe you knew that all along.

You really want to see me dead? Nothing tells you why I don't give up?
I don't know they are all town, it's an hypothesis. I saw in many games that if no wolf is in danger they don't interfere with the mislynch.

How could I save anyone when I didn't even self press or switch my vote on Mac?

Or you're hard defending your teammate LC

Look, I am villager. Maybe I am an idiot and I was too honestly answering at Jay's 'test' and I jumped to conclusions not enough thinked in the game, but you tunneling me and reffusing to think at anything else is not a good thing if you are villager.

Nut is 10:30 pm. I will answer in the morning.

It's mostly from how they worded some posts but to give examples I have to search.

Or you're hard defending your teammate LC

Look, I am villager. Maybe I am an idiot and I was too honestly answering at Jay's 'test' and I jumped to conclusions not enough thinked in the game, but you tunneling me and reffusing to think at anything else is not a good thing if you are villager.

I'm not refusing to think. I am trying to find your townie spark and your posts just keep pinging me as bad. But I could be wrong and I'm trying to see different possibilities. I think there are varying chances for any of LC/Epi/Jack/Jay to be scum, and that's a dangerously large poe pool at this point so for now I am voting for the person I can point to the most reasons to suspect, and that's you.

My postcount speaks for me.Just saying.
And when I am scum I reread all posts to not receive this kind of heat.
And i am less jumpy at anyone for any scum move.

Remember how town mislynched GMan in the last game. Remember the hydra game in december when you were sure I am scum. I don't feel I have to give more self meta for you.

More of the same, albeit non-consecutive. Michelle dedicated a huge portion of page 3 of her post history to arguing with and dealing with nutella.

Spoiler: show

Grats guys, you are doing again the same thing you did in the previous game with 3 villagers in a row. Be proud of it.
I get now why they gave up, you are too selfish to accept you are wrong.


Let's see my wagon:
Epi said he will give 33% in this game, he gives 5%. Ugly way of playing no matter AI.

Nanook was just sheeping one or another, i don't understand this. If he thinks his red peek solves the game he is plain wrong because mafia is a team and in this game distancing is the key. Unless everyone talks in the game. But you all are ok with players who are answering with one word at questions and admire this nonsense. If they are mafia, you have zero content to work with.

Jay is an easy poster so high activity is not AI and he's imagining tests and PoEs. Town had bad results from his contribution in the games we played together. I don't trust him no matter AI. He is a genius mafia, good for him. Idk why, but I was town reading him when he subbed in the game. Maybe because he had a nice energy. I am not sure about this. His so called test is a trap and he choose to pick up my answer to push me.
Logic, any mafia would say no. I said yes. So what? And then he has like a revelation and said I am guilty. Lame

Nutella pretends to know to read me but she can't. Or she don't want to. We talked too much already.

At least one of this 4 is wolf, imo.
But I may be wrong.
If every single one is villager, then this town have a problem and we will loose this game.

I don't want to post more, I am tired to defend myself and I am not playing for this. My vote stays on Jack, his approach was bad. His reads looked fabricated and Svs's push on me in day 1 was a tunnel a villager should not make.

I may not come back until Eod not because I give up but because this game is depressing.

Good bye.

If Michelle is a mafioso, then this is a classic discredit of a civilian. Michelle could be innocent here too; what matters is that it's not the stuff of mafia teammates.

Spoiler: show

nutella come tell me about your recent reads please

nutella come tell me about your recent reads please

Jack's flip threw me off but I still think you are scum out of the remaining candidates, along with probably LC?

You think bad. Jack's flip is a bad surprise for me.and idk what to think about his wagon, I was voting LC and I am villager, Nanook was voting you and so both scum are inside Jack's wagon.

So. Who voted Mac in day 1? With 3 mins before Eod, M7 and Nanook, and piled on him after were LC and Jay.
Off wagon were you on Epi and Epi on me. I was on you as well.
Where is scum, in Mac's wagon or off wagon?
How do you see this?

The antagonism persists in Day 3.

~~~

nutella's stuff not already covered

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

Lay off my scum buddy >: (

[VOTE: Epic nosebleed] aubergine

Did Epi get baited?

Have we forgotten this?

This is where my suspicion of you started. You tagged along on Dizzy's early prod of Michelle too easily.

nutella's suspicion of Epignosis was driven in part by his reception of Michelle. If nutella is a mafioso and Michelle is a civilian, this is an easy way to set up a scapegoat.

Spoiler: show

Spicy.

I'm not so sure about Michelle anymore though.

Why? I don't think she sounds anything like her towny self. Her shade of me is grasping at straws.

/cents.

How do you feel Michelle would be replying to your suspicion if she were town?

Maybe I am an idiot who don't understand but since I know I am town your wording is very bad for my eyes.
I am not even Esl so I may get things wrong but the way you put it is like you lock me scum and I wish to know why.

This is absolutely reaching. I'm talking to Dizzy, who has a perspective that you ARE scum.

It's called subjunctive mood.

These kind of posts are why I read you as scum. They aren't genuine. You're just throwing shade everywhere.

[VOTE: MICHELLE] aubergine

OK now I think this is sort of unfair. I completely understand how Michelle read your post that way.

nutella stood in defense of Michelle re: ~subjunctive mood~. Means little to me.

Spoiler: show

Could still be okay with a Michelle lynch but I feel like her townie posts balance out her icky ones at this point.

Purely balanced/neutral waffle. Okay.

Spoiler: show

If there's no peek I still feel like Michelle is our best bet.

[VOTE: michelle] aubergine

Michelle was nutella's backup lynch when the Long Con red peek was revealed false. Not sure I'd expect such a thing from teammates, particularly when the peek was known to be false by the mafia in the first place.

~~~

Conclusion

I don't think nutella and Michelle are mafia teammates. I can see arguments for either/or, but not for both.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I am right that nutella and Michelle don't fit together and that Epignosis is a civilian, then Long Con must necessarily be a mafioso.

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] I'd be interested to know how you feel about nutella and Michelle as a mafia team.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sometimes when I get all BIG POST, threads die. I'd appreciate it if we could keep this thing moving. It's LyLo. Feedback is fantastic, and anything else is fantastic.

[nutella]

I'm playing D&D for the next few hours so I'll be quiet for a while but I will make every effort to use the rest of the phase

[Epignosis]

I'll get to you JJJ. Just had my ass handed to me in Worms by my daughter who relies on rare homing weapons.

[Epignosis]

Let me get a drink and settle in and see what it is JJJ has written.

[Epignosis]

I think Michelle is a civilian. She looks lost, alone, helpless, angry, trying to figure things out, etc.

Does anybody disagree with that assessment?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Michelle is a civilian. She looks lost, alone, helpless, angry, trying to figure things out, etc.

Does anybody disagree with that assessment?

I can see that being the case. I am not confident. The term "alone" may be most compelling in that her last real ally in the game was Nanook, at least until you at present. It's the "trying to figure things out" that has given me problems. I see raw effort; I am not sure I see sincere effort.

[Epignosis]

I think Michelle is a civilian. She looks lost, alone, helpless, angry, trying to figure things out, etc.

Does anybody disagree with that assessment?

I can see that being the case. I am not confident. The term "alone" may be most compelling in that her last real ally in the game was Nanook, at least until you at present. It's the "trying to figure things out" that has given me problems. I see raw effort; I am not sure I see sincere effort.

What's the difference?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Michelle is a civilian. She looks lost, alone, helpless, angry, trying to figure things out, etc.

Does anybody disagree with that assessment?

I can see that being the case. I am not confident. The term "alone" may be most compelling in that her last real ally in the game was Nanook, at least until you at present. It's the "trying to figure things out" that has given me problems. I see raw effort; I am not sure I see sincere effort.

What's the difference?

I mean that she has put a lot of "effort" into the game, both in defending herself and in putting forth some manner of "hunt". There have been numerous instances wherein she has cast suspicion upon players for what I view as spurious or questionable reasons; it has made me question the authenticity of her hunt.

[Epignosis]

have I been fooled? was Nanook lying all along?

I'm not good enough with this kind of setup/counterclaim stuff to understand what could be happening here. Are Nanook and LC scum together and pulling some kind of... well, long con?

Jay help me out lol

In the same breath, nutella asks if she's been fooled and was Nanook lying AND THEN also says she's not good enough with this "kind of setup/counterclaim stuff to understand what could be happening here."

AND THEN she goes on to offer an accusation based on it.

Look. If you don't understand something, either ask questions to learn or shut the hmm hmm.

This is a nutella that is covering bases. She doesn't claim anything at all, but instead asks a bunch of questions that try to make her look innocent.

[Epignosis]

I'm at the point that if nutella and LC are civilians, I am prepared to take my first loss of the year. They add up in my head.

[Epignosis]

Michelle needs to vote though. We can't have a lack of voters at this stage. Michelle, who is bad in your opinion? And stop saying everybody who suspects you or changes his mind or plays at 5%.

[Epignosis]

Why do I get the feeling there's a spectator chat?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm at the point that if nutella and LC are civilians, I am prepared to take my first loss of the year. They add up in my head.

I lean toward the same pairing. The first lynch is still a very important choice though. No margin for error.

Everything collides at Long Con for me.

If you agree that nutella and Michelle don’t work as teammates (and believe that I’m a civilian), it’s where we end up.

If you can sell me on Michelle with your degree of confidence that’d go a long way.

[Epignosis]

I'm at the point that if nutella and LC are civilians, I am prepared to take my first loss of the year. They add up in my head.

I lean toward the same pairing. The first lynch is still a very important choice though. No margin for error.

Everything collides at Long Con for me.

If you agree that nutella and Michelle don’t work as teammates (and believe that I’m a civilian), it’s where we end up.

If you can sell me on Michelle with your degree of confidence that’d go a long way.

For me nutella needs to go first.