Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A little bit. I'm getting hung up on the initial framing of his Dizzy read. It was "Dyslexicon is town. [Several lines of text explaining why Dyslexicon was previously not a town read]. Dyslexicon is town." The follow-up response was a better answer, but the first one felt like a non-answer, which recalled my Day 0 beef with ted.

I think it's important that this dialogue began when you asked him for his strongest town reads -- the genesis of these comments existing was your brain as much as or more than ted's brain. He gave a small pile of names and ordered them, and then expanded on the names you asked about. He's giving you a rundown, which could be said to go above and beyond the call of your question.

The framing may be a bit different if ted had come up with the post entirely himself: "these are my strongest town reads and [here's why they're not town]"

[JaggedJimmyJay]

But you should think more about how that makes me feel.

Now it is the both of us that cry, Cindy Kate Staple Dyslexicon.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Remember folks:

I’m not bad, I’m bad at Mafia.

This made me feel a non-zero amount of feeling. I am dumb.

[Dyslexicon]

Remember folks:

I’m not bad, I’m bad at Mafia.

This made me feel a non-zero amount of feeling. I am dumb.

Same.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I would appreciate a third perspective on my speedchuck gripes. I have little doubt that speedchuck will answer them himself, and I will see how I feel about that when it comes. Gimme someone else.

Not much there bth, and considering almost all of you are dirty scumbums, then yeah, why not.
Buuut, I have the feeling that Speed has been bored as town before? Does he like to play scum more, or is that only an assumption?
Of what you put out it's the first joke that I like the least. Reads a bit like guilty state of mind.

I think I replaced the empty slot

I didn't know we had one, but I'm glad you're here again. Be town now too plz.

Ok but only because you asked

[Turnip Head]

Jimmy, mind doing a rundown of Michelle's iso for me?

[Sloonei]

speedchuck gripes

Spoiler: show

@speedchuck do you have any developed thoughts on jack and/or nutella? What about anyone else in the game?

I think the Jack/Nutella thing was interesting, primarily because of reactions to it. Tedxtr's reaction was notable, like he was incredibly pro-nutella and focused on nutella. Dunno if that's changed.

@tedxtr do you know nutella prior to this?

i n t e r e s t i n g

Seriously though, chuck termed the Jacktella thing as interesting and specifically referenced tedxtr as a source of that intrigue -- without providing any actual take or stance. I don't know what the point of this observation is.

Spoiler: show

Upon further reflection of ISOs both of these wagons are shiiiiiiiiiiiny turds.

Nutella I can see why people suspect her. The interactions starting when Mac wagoned on look pretty bad. But lynching nutella D1 after she gets defensive over some tunneling is wonky.

I have no idea why anyone would vote Master Radishes.

chuck sharted on both the Radish and nutella wagons before engaging himself in the concurrent dialogues. At face value, I think this post looks fake. He answered this accusation already. I'm not moved.

These are the two points that move me the most. speed's answer to my my "developed thoughts" question could have been written by pete buttigieg, and the strong denouncement of both wagons on a day where he's not indicated that he's heavily informed is kinda bogus, especially given that he immedaitely followed that up by shrugging in support of one of those two wagons.
I've yet to fully articulate my Radishes case. Maybe I should do that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jimmy, mind doing a rundown of Michelle's iso for me?

k

If you mean like make a whole-ass ISO post, I may be pressed for time. I'll look at it though and say stuff.

[Sloonei]

A little bit. I'm getting hung up on the initial framing of his Dizzy read. It was "Dyslexicon is town. [Several lines of text explaining why Dyslexicon was previously not a town read]. Dyslexicon is town." The follow-up response was a better answer, but the first one felt like a non-answer, which recalled my Day 0 beef with ted.

I think it's important that this dialogue began when you asked him for his strongest town reads -- the genesis of these comments existing was your brain as much as or more than ted's brain. He gave a small pile of names and ordered them, and then expanded on the names you asked about. He's giving you a rundown, which could be said to go above and beyond the call of your question.

The framing may be a bit different if ted had come up with the post entirely himself: "these are my strongest town reads and [here's why they're not town]"

The framing was part of my problem. When asked to justify a town read, Ted did the opposite and explained why he had previously had a scum read. If his follow-up had been the initial response, I'd have no issue. It just feels out of sync. But to be fair, I did like each of his other two answers in that same post. I don't think I would vote for ted right now, but it's something I'm keeping in mind.

[Turnip Head]

Jimmy, mind doing a rundown of Michelle's iso for me?

k

If you mean like make a whole-ass ISO post, I may be pressed for time. I'll look at it though and say stuff.

I'm not picky

[TonyStarkPrime]

Vote: Jay because I feel like it

[sprityo]

HELL YEAH LADIES AND GENTS IM BACK IN FULL FORCE

Sadly I didn’t get a scum role PM to near guarantee myself a win tho

Time to use my lie detector role power to check if you’re lying

[TonyStarkPrime]

A question with a data driven answer: are inactive scum or town more likely to be lynched?
I think this one is counter intuitive

Town by pure odds. I dunno.

Why?

I have a small sample set (I might try to put a bigger one together after I get home tomorrow) but it seems to be pretty close to 50/50 — which after pure odds and the fact that scum is less likely to be inactive, paints a weird picture.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Michelle stuff:

I liked her in Day 0 for her little contributions. They may not be much, but I am fond of the tone. That's worth less in Day 2 Land, but it's something.

She stood in Jack's corner when he was briefly wagoned on Day 1. If Jack is a civilian one may wonder about TMI; my alarm is not set off given that it's based upon Jack's read on her. There's a personal connection driving the read that I find believable.

Town reads on sig and I, the latter based on meta. I am not surprised by the comparison given that in Dogs vs. Cats I was very loudly mislynched. It sticks in the brain.

I don't care for this post. I don't understand what Michelle means in the first line about Dizzy. Her shade at nutella looks a bit cooked -- framing it as a question to the audience "what if they're both town???" is icky. Then there's vague references to vibes from Nanook and Radish, presumably negative vibes but not overtly stated.

I don't feel much either way from the big multi-quote post. I reference it anyway given its significant stature within the ISO.

Again drawing on meta when reading Sloonei town. I've no gripe.

Michelle's stances in the Day 1 lynch were dually concrete: vote Radish, don't want to lynch nutella. I appreciate the clarity.

sig gave her some shit and she was cool with it. The lack of energy in her response is awkward.

I agree with much of what she says about Colin

Well this ended up a whole-ass ISO post. I'm JaggedJimmyJay.

It's not a perfect report. When I am less-than-positive though I feel more like I am nitpicking than like I am finding something I care about. I don't view Michelle as a good lynch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A question with a data driven answer: are inactive scum or town more likely to be lynched?
I think this one is counter intuitive

Town by pure odds. I dunno.

Why?

I have a small sample set (I might try to put a bigger one together after I get home tomorrow) but it seems to be pretty close to 50/50 — which after pure odds and the fact that scum is less likely to be inactive, paints a weird picture.

That could be true. I don't have the numbers. Why is this of interest to you right now?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Vote: Jay because I feel like it

y

[sprityo]

Vote: Jay because I feel like it

y

because I feel like it

[sprityo]

Oh right, where were we- [VOTE: jack] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[sprityo]

I wish I could listen but I’m boarding my final flight back to Oklahoma

[Sloonei]

I wish I could listen but I’m boarding my final flight back to Oklahoma

It was truly love. It should be the first thing you listen to once you set back down in the land of the free.

welcome home soon

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

HELL YEAH LADIES AND GENTS IM BACK IN FULL FORCE

Sadly I didn’t get a scum role PM to near guarantee myself a win tho

Time to use my lie detector role power to check if you’re lying

Hit me with it daddy

[Epignosis]

I'll be with you all momentarily.

[Sloonei]

Stuff About Radishes

Spoiler: show

I'm half-heartedly reading through. Do you guys ever stop talking about hidden significances behind your choice of ice cream flavour? Do I need to care about this conversation?

Radishes spent much of the early-early game hovering around the thread without really engaging. I'm quoting the above post as an example of that. People were playing the game and doing mafia things, and Radishes was present, but he never inserted himself into the action. I am not looking for him to hurl reads around at this stage in a new environment, but I would expect him to want to establish his footing in the game. That never happens.
As I type this, though, I do have to wonder whether or not a Scum Radishes would be more inclined to be an active presence here. My gripe is that there appears to be a lack of effort to engage, and effort level is a fundamental thing and not the sort of mistake that I'd expect a seasoned vegetable to make. So my opening paragraph of this case already has me questioning myself, alright. Let's move on.

Spoiler: show

This is two posts from SVS now that have felt like they could be written by a scum. Not that they are, just that they could be.

His first actual read is a fairly vague point in the direction of SVS. This struck me at the time as an easy target suspicion; not necessarily "low-hanging fruit", but the sort of accusation that doesn't require much effort to point out. He elaborated here and I don't have any major objections there, but I also remain uninspired. There's not necessarily anything wrong with this suspicion, but it feels very clinical and stale. Obligatory, perhaps. I'll keep you guys posted if I think of any more adjectives.

Spoiler: show

Can someone give me meta on nutella? I was thinking over thoughts and things and thought 'Yeah I like nute so far' and then I added 'because' and then I couldn't finish my thought.

It takes him a lot of words to not produce a read on a player here. I'm not thrilled at the way he frames this as a town read for nutella but then opens the door for someone else to change that.
I gave my interpretation of nutella's meta and his response was absolutely nothing, which makes the initial post seem even less meaningful.

Spoiler: show

Can someone give me meta on nutella? I was thinking over thoughts and things and thought 'Yeah I like nute so far' and then I added 'because' and then I couldn't finish my thought.

town nutella throws around lots of reads and isn't afraid to change her mind a hundred times. she's assertive and feisty when she's on.
i think she's also fooled me as scum at least once in recent memory, but i don't remember specifics.

Thanks. I'll just wait and see how she plays as the game evolves, I suppose.

Does this change anything about the way you're reading her right now?
Is there anyone we're not talking about who you think could be talked about more right now?

You ask many questions, kind of like a...question-asking...guy.

Changes nothing about my current feels about nute. I'm just going to reserve them until I see what happens when the game picks up and we enter D1 properly and such. May be something, may be nothing.

Gosh, look how diligent I was before the fever set in. This kind of encapsulates my point. To recap the progression, Radishes goes from:
-"I think nutella is town, but idk. Someone tell me about her."
-[After being told about her] "Okay thanks. I'll see what happens."
-[After being pressed to expand based on new information]"Changes nothing, I'll see what happens."

The first post felt like empty blustering to look busy, and then he did absolutely nothing with the information he had requested. Bad look.

Spoiler: show

This post caught my eye.

Independent of all this: how do we all feel about master radishes?

Not great. I get the feeling that his presence is a bit flashy/comes across as performative. It's something I've seen with experienced players that they want to be a bit edgy/go against the grain give the impression that they are confident and have nothing to hide when they are scum. Compensating. Like when they asked "are we all seriously reading into ice cream flavors" (<-- from memory, might not be exact) or something like that. I don't know if I explain this right, but "performative" is what comes to mind and it feels not great.

I get what you mean about this completely; you're just misinterpreting where the 'performative' bit (maybe not the right word - more like adopting a persona?) comes from. I'm playing in a game with a bunch of people I don't know but who know each other, but have the confidence to 'go against the grain' as you say, as this isn't my first rodeo. I'm not consciously adopting a persona (okay, that was also the wrong phrase) but, yeah, my internet/mafia style tends towards dismissive and sarcastic in the early stages of games, especially on sites I'm not familiar with.

I singled this post out as well, though, because the thought process to me seems good. It's easy for scum looking to slip onto a wagon to pile on me today (I'm the third, less noticed wheel) but this isn't the way a scum would do it. This is an actual attempt to parse my behaviour.

I'm hesitant to declare anyone a green read in a multiball game where I don't know anyone's meta, but so far Dizzy (you gave permission!) is nudging upwards the most in my books with this thought process and general solid enough play.

Dizzy calls him out on some stuff, and his response feels limp. "I get what you mean... you're just misinterpreting" may be translated as "Yeah you nailed me, but here's an alternative explanation!" Radishes more or less confirms each of Dizzy's points before re-framing them as positives. Maybe that's all the truth and it just came out in an unfortunate way. But as I look at it now it strikes me as a player who feels like he's been caught and is scurrying to dismiss it without overreacting.

Spoiler: show

Yeah, okay, I don't have the time or will to slog through the thread again. Just...give me someone(s) to ISO or summat.

Sloonei and Ted pops into my head as interesting ISOs for what it's worth.

Okie dokie.

Pre-ISO impressions:

Ted - liked his opening; I'd lean towards saying it's townie, with the caveat of a scum working hard to find the other team
Sloonei - when initially catching up on opening posts, I felt good about him; as I interacted with him in real time, I wasn't sure why; he feels quite reserved and prone to asking questions rather than help scumhunt - maybe that's his meta?

I've already talked about this nonsense, but to reiterate: I don't care for the "tell me what to do" approach. I think it's something I've done in the past when I've been bad, and I believe I've seen other naughty ones do it as well.
I also felt like his development on me from this exercise looked off, similar to his previous response to Dyslexicon. Observe:

Spoiler: show

Yeah, okay, I don't have the time or will to slog through the thread again. Just...give me someone(s) to ISO or summat.

Sloonei and Ted pops into my head as interesting ISOs for what it's worth.

Okie dokie.

Pre-ISO impressions:

Ted - liked his opening; I'd lean towards saying it's townie, with the caveat of a scum working hard to find the other team
Sloonei - when initially catching up on opening posts, I felt good about him; as I interacted with him in real time, I wasn't sure why; he feels quite reserved and prone to asking questions rather than help scumhunt - maybe that's his meta?

What does this mean? How do you distinguish my questions from something that you would call scumhunting?

Perhaps poorly phrased on my part, but I don't consider asking question after question to constitute 'scumhunting' unless it leads somewhere. You're throwing out dozens of questions to people and there's little evidence you've gotten anything out of them. It's one of those little things baddies (if I can say that) will try to do to appear more active and engaged than they are.

--

To save a post, I'll complete my ISO of Sloonei here:

Basically gonna cop out and say: I think I need meta and/or just to wait for later rounds to read him properly. Over half his posts are questions to other players, most of which aren't then followed up. (Already discussed above - not a fan of it.)

But then there are moments where he's clearly not afraid to prod others, e.g. with ted early on ('like he was trying to shove me away'), or sig shortly after that (what 'antsy' means). He's equally not interested in letting bad lines of inquiry play out (Nanook's 'satire' post; Radishes' use of 'baddie') which he suggests shutting down in both cited cases. He also banters when he sees an opportunity ('Mac's big D' etc) which shows he's loose, even as the game began to turn more serious.

But, as ever, caveats and all that. This isn't un-fakeable by any means.

So Sloonei remains pretty null for me until I see more. I'm not TRing him, but at the moment not inclined to vote here.

Perhaps poorly phrased on my part, but I don't consider asking question after question to constitute 'scumhunting' unless it leads somewhere. You're throwing out dozens of questions to people and there's little evidence you've gotten anything out of them. It's one of those little things baddies (if I can say that) will try to do to appear more active and engaged than they are.

People say this about me all the time. Asking questions is my thing. It's what I do. It leads somewhere, even if the results aren't immediate. Questions asked on Day 1 are valuable on Day 3.

@anyone to confirm this meta, please.

I did ask for meta info earlier, because I know some people just play that way. I didn't see anyone respond.

This is 100% how Sloonei plays, he's like a prosecuter in a TV show about lawyers.

Thanks.

The only legal drama I ever watched was the Good Wife.

He attempts a jab at me that didn't make a ton of sense to me in the moment (but I tend to get prickly about these things, so I may be biased there) and then does the same reshuffling of words act as before. Then he asks about my meta and just accepts the first answer and moves on without seeming to do anything meaningful with the information. So not only do I find the premise of these two ISOs (ted was the other one) shaky, but I don't feel like they resulted in anything meaningful for him either.

I'll cut this off here. This is what I had for Day 1, at least. There was also a bit where he called out Jay for having an early reads list that looked bogus that I'll note as well. And then there was the wackadoo wagon analysis from Night 1. On that point, I'll note that he did say that vote analysis is a staple of his game when I asked him for a self-analysis on night 0, so he was at least consistent in that regard.

My overall impression of Radishes so far has been that he seems pretty listless, like he's looking for direction but unable to get started on anything. That could be a scum player who feels overwhelmed in a new environment where he's receiving more pressure than he had anticipated. Or it could be a civilian who doesn't know anyone that he's playing with.

I have not placed a vote yet for some reason, so I'll do that now. [VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

I don't care much about hearing your response to any of these points, [mention]Master Radishes[/mention], if that would be your inclination. This post exists for the people who are saying they don't understand why you're receiving votes. If you'd like to convince me move my vote off of you, the best way to do that would be to point me in the direction of a player more deserving of it.

[Epignosis]

tedxtr who are your strongest town reads?

sig - S~V~S - Dys - juliets - Sloonei - TSP

maybe in that exact order

sig - S~V~S - Dys - juliets - Sloonei - TSP

maybe in that exact order

Shucks. Tell me about myself, dyslexicon, and tony.

(Insert: Why those three names, Sloonei?)

The reason you're on the lower end is because I remember your early start that was aesthetically pleasing. I saw you had good , well-timed questions but I am sort of reluctant to town read you fully because, other than that, I honestly don't remember anything else you've done. I just remember you being there and kind of skimming your posts. I'm wanting to see some sort of aggressive push from you or something.

Dys I had tons of mindmelds with. At first I thought the way they came in the thread saying "Watch me do nothing this game, what are you gonna do about it" kind of attitude and then giving that read on Michelle felt sort of contradictory, emotionally speaking. As in, you imply you don't give a crap, but you post a shallow read on Michelle, like you felt forced to do it. I also thought it was too early of a town read, even for Michelle, which I also have tons of meta with. Otherwise, their recent content has been good and we mindmelded ever since that initial scum lean.

TSP's a read that's like broadly applied to my mental map of how town!lurkers approach a game as opposed to scum!lurkers. There's no scum agenda behind his posting, and with scum lurkers, the usual mentality is "ah I gotta post something good to make up for my absence" and that usually turns into awkward reads on people and shit. The reason he's that low is because I didn't like his early Jay read joke thing which read as awkward and I want to look for some form of thought process that I can easily follow through and get rid of this paranoia for his slot. It's this low because it's a general approach to reading lurkers and I need some more context to be more confident in it.

Time out.

There are twenty-three names you could have chosen. You picked six. Sloonei was one. You're telling me that Sloonei makes your top six based on his "early start" being "aesthetically pleasing?" What the hell does that mean? Were his posts color coordinated?

You "honestly don't remember anything else" he's done, and yet he makes your top six?

You're still waiting for "some sort of aggressive push" but he's in top six.

Get out of here with that.

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: tedxtr] aubergine

[Sloonei]

I picked those three names because A) I like it when people talk about me, B) Dyslexicon has been hard for me to pin down, and C) I was surprised to see Tony on the list.

I don't object to Tony's response about me. We butted heads very early on in this game, as well as in our one previous game together. It makes sense that he'd notice me and form a read on me ahead of other names.

[Sloonei]

i've been pretty singularly focused on radishes as a suspect. I want to break out of that this phase.
it won't happen tonight though. it's late and i'm tired.

[Epignosis]

I don’t remember much of anything that Epi has said in this game. That is probably more my fault than his.

[Sloonei]

I don’t remember much of anything that Epi has said in this game. That is probably more my fault than his.

who the hell are you?

[tedxtr]

G-Man still has no takes

Oompa loompa doompa

His slot shall perish to end my wraith

Oompa loompa doompa

[VOTE: G-Man ] aubergine

I’m gonna go at epi when I’m on pc, wanted you to know I acknowledged your vote there

[Dom]

Remember folks:

I’m not bad, I’m bad at Mafia.

This is yucky!

[Dom]

I like Dom more. I think Dom has taken on an incisive, fierce tone that feels both authentic and generally civilian in character.

I’d like you to differentiate between what I was doing and what I’m doing now.

[Dom]

Orange, aggedJimmyJay? I make three posts, and that’s enough to land me in orange instead of neutral gray?

In a way, I guess I see it, what with the diarrhea-of-the-mouth-inducing playstyle you and others prefer. You have offended me, sir, and now I intend to bury myself in the deepest red of your rainbow reads so that I may ignore your demands for more content.

This post smells bad.

Over the top? Yep. This was me needling Jay.

Needling Jay about what, bitch?

Get a frame of reference.

[Sloonei]

Remember folks:

I’m not bad, I’m bad at Mafia.

This is yucky!

Why?

[Dom]

Spoiler: show

At its peak moment [...]

I'm kind of puzzled by this analysis tbh. If you are town, which you would assume that you are, then I don't see why scum would care either way whether you or Nut was lynched. In fact, I would think scum would either a) vote off wagons to not make waves and not make themselves targets (which they could be no matter what the lynched players flip) or b) vote because they sincerely believe the player to be scum. I don't know why scum would need to look for especially "opportunistic" reasons to vote someone. I mean, sure, anyone but their team. But if you are town, then why care among the two of you?

I mean, sure, it's an unusual wagon to analyse, as in a 'real' round we might have seen some last minute vote-switching and all that.

But the general mentality of a scum wanting to 'blend in' remains, and so scum would try to nudge a wagon from a non-teammate along if the opportunity presented itself, especially a player as respected as nutella. Also, since nutella's sprung up relatively quickly, that likely would have pushed a scum to act 'quickly' to join in or not. (I put in ' ' because I'm speaking in terms of thread progression, not real time necessarily.)

I don't think it really matters that this is multiball. If a baddie sees a wagon, they'll be tempted to join.

I don't really understand what my wagon has to do with anything. Obviously the same rule applies - there are scum on it too. But I haven't analysed it for reasons already stated (my opinions would be questioned by the rest of you and the nature of the wagon formation was more gradual and thus harder to properly analyse, IMO.)


I have no idea if this answered your point, because of the aforementioned wine and my refusal to re-read your quoted post. But I don't see why the validity of analysing the nutella-wagon is being questioned. I've played this game for over a decade, it's a well-established rule of thumb, and **** you all for not believing me.

(I went for appeal to authority, logic, *and* emotion there!)

I am confused, I have seen plenty of wagons on Day one that consisted completely of civs. This feels like an over analysis of a moot point.

Personally, I think Nutella was going to be able to talk her way out of it since Jack was backing off (this is prolly why Nanook nuked her) and you would have been lynched. The vote moving was just about to start. I think you're trying to make a something out of a nothing, and I don't find it a good look.

I've played this game for over a decade, too. Stop showing off, lol.

Svs reads as civ here

[Dom]

Holy shit.

Here’s what’s up:
Uhh
Nothing it’s been really slow the large post count disguises this fact

So absolutely nothing of work has occurred?

Tbh my first reaction to this is that drago has a team.

Anyone else?

[Dom]

My blacklist in order of lynching priority:

Michelle
Colin
Master Radishes
Sprityo
Sloonei

Turnip head suddenly drops me.
why?

[Dom]

When did Jack back off nutella? I don’t remember that

Lol this guy needs to go

[Epignosis]

speedchuck gripes

Spoiler: show

I would rather vote nutella than jack, because nutella will start scumreading me any minute now.

Not feeling the vibes on this joke.

Spoiler: show

Like Nutella is playing what I would expect from her if she tried really hard to mimic her town game.

Or she’s just town.

Like she’s hitting her scumtell a and her towntells.

This seems to be the epicenter of the Jacktella quake. I am brought to wonder:

How do we (we who know nutella) anticipate her to respond to a post like this, where is she is told she is playing to her norms in both alignments? This is an accusation from Jack after all, even if "softened" by the town half of the presentation. I'm not surprised nutella called it garbage, or that she wondered aloud if a mafioso Jack would be so obvious as to openly hedge in this manner.

Is that where it started? Did he push any harder?

Because I'd be surprised to see nutella offended by this cushy push. More like 'meh' and 'jack do you even have an opinion'

I find this assertion hard to believe: nutella is a firecracker is responds severely to accusations of all sorts all the time. This contributes in some vague manner to the negative nutella climate, and I'm not on board.

Spoiler: show

@speedchuck do you have any developed thoughts on jack and/or nutella? What about anyone else in the game?

I think the Jack/Nutella thing was interesting, primarily because of reactions to it. Tedxtr's reaction was notable, like he was incredibly pro-nutella and focused on nutella. Dunno if that's changed.

@tedxtr do you know nutella prior to this?

i n t e r e s t i n g

Seriously though, chuck termed the Jacktella thing as interesting and specifically referenced tedxtr as a source of that intrigue -- without providing any actual take or stance. I don't know what the point of this observation is.

Spoiler: show

Upon further reflection of ISOs both of these wagons are shiiiiiiiiiiiny turds.

Nutella I can see why people suspect her. The interactions starting when Mac wagoned on look pretty bad. But lynching nutella D1 after she gets defensive over some tunneling is wonky.

I have no idea why anyone would vote Master Radishes.

chuck sharted on both the Radish and nutella wagons before engaging himself in the concurrent dialogues. At face value, I think this post looks fake. He answered this accusation already. I'm not moved.

Spoiler: show

Of those names, I’m not sure one in particular stands out. I think Sig’s vote was the most egregious, but his macro play of all those names has been the greenest. At the moment I’m not entirely sure where I’d place a vote (and obviously can’t anyway), but GTH I’d say Sabie. Also not a fan of Mac’s play on this – inconsistent and never landed on the wagon or, conversely, showed progression away from it. Just blew on the sparks a bit.

I dunno, I was suspicious of Sig for a reason I think. Let me look back.

Ah, yes, it was his crappity crap reasons for still wanting to lynch nutella after Jack recanted. He overcompenisated for his position by throwing a bunch of bad reasons in with the good.

1. Reason wasnt crappy
2. Was laying out my thought process.

It would be imo so much worse to instantly switch off since Jack changed his mind, especially since I didnt base my vote solely off his read and two she wasn't a civ?

Not to mention I stated a few times she wasnt my top lynch which Is why I switched off once things evened our a bit.

Some of your reasons were crappy. And you had some perfectly good reasons. Overcompensating to justify staying on nutella. Meh. Minor sus.

One thing I liked more from speedchuck was his dig into sig's takes on Jacktella. In the end though we get the highlighted bit to neuter its seriousness and for my money its credit.

This is a horseshit observation.

You don't believe a word of it.

That last part makes you seem open-minded but last bit you tack shows you aren't. This is the weakest push I've ever seen from you in my life.

You are mafia.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

[Epignosis]

I would appreciate a third perspective on my speedchuck gripes. I have little doubt that speedchuck will answer them himself, and I will see how I feel about that when it comes. Gimme someone else.

Well, you just got one mister.

[Epignosis]

Tell me why you're suspicious of me and I'll tell you whether I understand.

Good answer.

I don't know. You just don't pack a punch to me in this game. For all your posting you feel surprisingly in the background. It's mainly that.

I'm not yelling and screaming as I often did in years past. I'm having more fun right now as a result. I'm a tired old man, Dyslexicon. I am a Mafia grandpa.

Mafia grandpa indeed.

[Master Radishes]

I don't care much about hearing your response to any of these points, Master Radishes, if that would be your inclination.

A lot of it is too subjective to respond to anyway. I'm not going to waste my time trying to un-tunnel you.

But two things:

-Since I never did follow it up, the nutella thing was based on her opening post. I liked her early tone, so did a quick spot-check ISO to confirm if I did, and her opening post felt like she was trying to match the casual tone of a townie with nothing to worry about. But that's such a weak read for N0 that I wanted to wait and see how things developed. That's not scummy - that's how N0 goes.
I would definitely have voted her over Jack, not to mention over me, but I don't vote in self-defence unless I have to because I prefer to still try to, you know, play the game first.


-I don't think it's fair to be deemed scum for being 'listless' on N0/D1 when I'm playing on what is still a new forum to me with a bunch of people I barely/don't know. I'm not an Eva who bulldozes in to any game. This is a poor indicator of scum, IMO, unless it's based on meta, and you don't have that on me.

[sabie12]

I feel bad for colin in that I feel like people often don't get me either but his ISO doesn't make me feel good about him. He doesn't seem to be interested in keeping up with what's going on and trying to figure things out. He asked about jack and then didn't give any further thoughts on it.

Does TH always have short responses and ask other people to make reads for him? I know I've played with him before but I don't remember. I feel like he's been kind of providing reads without much explanation and asking others to tell him why someone is scummy.

Nanook has had a big change in his tone since coming back so he must be excited about the role he got. I don't know if that's a good thing or not because he seems like he was hoping to be mafia but could just be a more exciting role. I find it weird he made it a point to point out he didn't get a mafia role.

I don't know if I've seen a bad jay before? I thought he looked like his usual self and getting discussion going and making reads. Is he different when he's bad?

Good to see sloonei seems back to his usual self. Just has to start asking more questions and have more long ISO posts and we got the old sloonei back. (Glad you're feeling better) good post on radishes I'm not familiar with them and they don't seem to be familiar with a lot of people here either so that's a good point.

[Michelle]

I think I like Sloonei, but I don't remember why now.

maybe you can dig in memories?

This is two posts from SVS now that have felt like they could be written by a scum. Not that they are, just that they could be.

I certainly don't have a mindmeld with Radishes this game

Possible teammate distancing?

I am here, will catch up and post thoughts later today.

Uh, “champion”!

Going at Iso links and choosing the first.
Strange how he looks non interested in this game

More possible distancing?

too much of a stretch. Just sayin'

[Michelle]

My blacklist in order of lynching priority:

Michelle
Colin
Master Radishes
Sprityo
Sloonei

Why these bottom two names?

Vibes

explain with quotes for everyone [mention]Turnip Head[/mention]

[Michelle]

My plan B: play like shit and expect shades from wolves.

Is working?

[Michelle]

I've combed her iso and made a post linking her to potential teammate distancing techniques. She is maneuvering with a sketchy finesse, imo.

associative fake reads without any red flip.

[Michelle]

I don't care much about hearing your response to any of these points, Master Radishes, if that would be your inclination.

A lot of it is too subjective to respond to anyway. I'm not going to waste my time trying to un-tunnel you.

But two things:

-Since I never did follow it up, the nutella thing was based on her opening post. I liked her early tone, so did a quick spot-check ISO to confirm if I did, and her opening post felt like she was trying to match the casual tone of a townie with nothing to worry about. But that's such a weak read for N0 that I wanted to wait and see how things developed. That's not scummy - that's how N0 goes.
I would definitely have voted her over Jack, not to mention over me, but I don't vote in self-defence unless I have to because I prefer to still try to, you know, play the game first.


-I don't think it's fair to be deemed scum for being 'listless' on N0/D1 when I'm playing on what is still a new forum to me with a bunch of people I barely/don't know. I'm not an Eva who bulldozes in to any game. This is a poor indicator of scum, IMO, unless it's based on meta, and you don't have that on me.

suddenly I want to know what Radishes will make regarding the cyan coloured part. Looks interesting

[S~V~S]

I'm gonna do a GTH post, not a rainbow. I will only comment on some and expand after work tonight (Saturday is my long, difficult day at work, so it is very unlikely I will post during the day today). Bad is kind of a default position (see: Dragomir) for "no opinion" I should have an opinion by now.

Colin, bad, I have to reread him, but I don't remember much he has said. So bad as a default position.

Dom, civ with caveats: he can fool me, he knows it, I know it. So he makes me paranoid, but so far I see civ Dom. *IF* he is bad, I don't think he's bad with G or Jay. That "queen" thing kinda freaked me a bit, not gonna lie, but it was also sweet and totally a Dom thing to do

Drago: bad (last post asking about host posts, I don't know that anyone ever answered him. This is, like Colin, a default position, I don't know his game, and I know walking into a 30+ page thread is intimidating, but asking a question and leaving it hang seems kinda sketch to me.

Dyslexicon: bad, I have complex feels on this. She was a civ read then I shaded her down. She says and does things that feel/sound civ, but then she also is pushing low level minor shade at me and never giving me anything to work with. Early on, she, along with Radishes, asked the thread more than once, why people were town reading me. Aside from the fact that she was mirroring Radishes who I think is bad bad bad, it, along with all of her "Alas, I want to town read SVS but I am not sure why, someone else tell me what to think about this" hand wringing, it just strikes me as her wanting to find me bad. What she is doing is a play I have in my baddie book, too. Drop a crumb, see if anyone picks it up. Sowing the seeds of suspish. Disclaimer, I would feel this if she were doing it to someone else, too. Plus her Radishes suspish feels like distancing to me, tbh.

Epignosis: Civ. I am not seeing bad Epi, unless his game radically changed since I last played with him. Anyone have recent bad/civ Epi games I can look at? For me, "Bad Epi" is more obvious that "Good Epi", and I have not seen that scary person yet.

G Man: bad, I thought so for days, no change. I don't see a curse role (cursed objects is the closest thing) and doing self imposed posting gimmicks is a G Man thing, it is known. Not buying it. This is probably my first vote today unless I convince myself otherwise later in this post.

Jack: light civ; I thought he was bad bad until he backpedalled on nutella, I see no reason for him to have done that if he was bad. Before that he was close to the top of my bad list, though, so

Jay: civ, I feel like I do on Epi here, he seems civ to me, using my Jay barometer, but the barometer may need calibration.

Juliets: Jules is a civ, fight me if you don't agree.

MacDougall: bad, his play on the nutella lynch felt bad to me, and he has not returned since then. How he spins that situation will aim how I slot him. This is his last post (I am generally not posting posts in this post, but this one kinda counterpoints my thoughts on Dsy, so, breaking my own rules! I'm a rebel!)

It's from Day one, no reaction to the nutella lynch as of yet. Macdougall, come and tellme how you feel about how Day One ended.

I don't know why I feel resistance to read S-V-S as town. Cause she probably very well could be.

Good read

What? This is a terrible read. What does it even mean?

Master Radishes: He's bad, he's bad. You know it, he's bad.

[VOTE: Master Badishes] aubergine

Michelle: civ but could flip to bad, she gave me good feels early on, and I have seen nothing to change it, and therein lies the problem. I need moar Michelle. Gimme that content.

Nanook: civ, I though Nanook 1 was bad, not gonna lie. I reacted to him not unlike how I reacted to Chuck defending supabad LC in that other game. The way he came into his second life made me see commonality between his games so far, I liked him going right on the attack. I think if he were bad he would have pulled his punches a bit.

S~V~S: She is as civ as they come

sabie: bad, she seems a bit wishy washy so far, but I remember thinking she was bad in the past for that, and she wasn't. Putting bad as a default position.

sig; town, one of my civvier reads. I would actively fight a sigwagon.

Sloonei: civ, of the big three (Jay, Epi, Sloonei) I feel most confident in his civness. In their case I defeulted to civ not so much becasue I have seen their civ game as I haven't seen their bad. With Sloonei, I think I have seen both.

speedchuck: bad, this is more of a default position, I have not seen anything to think he is good, but then I am not a speedchuck reader. He is on my list for a reread tonight.

sprit: bad, I read him yesterday and it was meh. He is the opposite of nutella and epi for me, he has a bit of a mean feel for me when he is civ, maybe mean is the wrong word, maybe "biting"is better. Not gonna lie, I blew him up a few years ago and I try to avoid him since then. He says he is going home, maybe he will have more time. He has not said much topical so far.

tedxtr: civ, I like the cut of his jib so far. I like how he explains himself. He's higher on the list for me.

TonyStarkPrime: civ, I reread him yesterday, and expected to think him bad, but I like his posts, they are consice but get his point across, and I found nothing iffy or opportunistic feeling.

Tranq: civ, someone had said civ Tranq doesn't post much and that is true. Tranq with a chatroom banters more in thread. Tranq is like Dom, though, in that it is easy for him to charm me. Some of his opinions, when he started posting them, surprised me, like his thoughts on TH (see below). Tranq, TH and I all come from the same figurative home town, and I was surprised to see that read on TH.

Turnip Head: civ, this is my waffliest read, town TH can be a mad oracle, but like the words of most oracles, it requires interpretation. I *think* I am interpreting him in the correct way but I would like to see more words, plz, K, TH?

And I gotta go take a shower gonna post this without further ado.