Inception [END]

[Dom]

If iaafr and pawn are civs, then I think Epi is much more likely to be bad.

[Dom]

sprit, I'm cautiously moving you up in my reads.

[Epignosis]

I agree with Epi's take on not worrying about indy roles until mafia looking is done. That's easy to be right about, and it doesn't specifically solve anything. Which is why I can agree with Epi and also Mac, whose case on Epi was convincing. I thought it was unnatural how quickly Epi turned around from driving for Evenstar's lynch, to finding reasons why she must be town. [VOTE: Epi] aubergine

Just caught up, going to take a break, and then probably come back later and catch up again.

No regrets. I think it was the right play, wrong result.

I can live with that.

[Epignosis]

If iaafr and pawn are civs, then I think Epi is much more likely to be bad.

Well yes...that's how math works.

[Trustworthy Liberal]

sprit, I'm cautiously moving you up in my reads.

On the topic of reads Dom may I ask who your top say 4 town are in no particular order or better yet the four people you never Lynch Today?

[Epignosis]

so I got pocketed by Eva and probably pawn.

I'm just gonna assume pawn would've been more suspicious at Eva if he wasn't scum

[VOTE: pawn lelouch] aubergine

also Dom, Eva wasn't being mean to you on purpose, she saw your response to my d2 in d3 without being able to read d2 and from that perspective it probably looked like you were being a dick to me mostly unprovoked. from my perspective I knew it was somewhat provoked, but at the time I was still salty for various reasons and didn't wanna get into it.

anyway Eva being sympathetic to me there was clearly to help pocket me. I also repeated a few times during day 1 that as long as Eva kept scumreading me, I was willing to kill her, because even if I didn't have her confidently scum then, she was antitown from my pov. reread those interactions to maybe softclear me. I was also one of her first pushes, though I guess Drago was too so it's hard to clear me off that. whatever. I'll take my first ml if it comes down to it.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Going back to look at the day 1 poll in light of these flips.

Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005 voted for 112

Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets all voted for Dragomir

Macdougall voted for Epignosis

Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin voted for Evenstar

Dom, Michelle voted for Hyena

Dragomir voted for MacDougall

LadyLambdaDelta voted for Nutella

112 voted for Trustworthy Liberal

iaafr, boo voted for no lynch

Two flipped wolves on the 112 wagon and no flipped wolves on the Dragomir. It really does look like 112 was a straight up savewagon. Only Epignosis and Jack remain unsolved on that wagon.

No red flips from the Dragomir lynch. There is probably at least one busser in the list of remaining players from that wagon but I'd be surprised if it was more than two. I very much doubt that it's 100% pure but it's probably at least very pure given the 112 wagon actually has wolves on it. juliets, Hyena and Pawn are all on there and currently catching flak. I doubt they're all scum. It especially doesn't strike me as a very juliets thing to do if there is an active savewagon. It's probably on brand for the other two.

The Evenstar wagon is probably three civs. Tbh everyone off wagon is probably a civ because the save wagon was active and in effect. Leaving votes off wagons there is sub-optimal. Then again... that'd be kinda nuts.

Epignosis Jackofhearts2005 talk about each other.

In all seriousness, not everyone off wagon is likely town but Epi probably is, particularly with a Pawn or Rabbit red flip.

[Epignosis]

i just trust pawn the least rn

Your security blanket from Day 2?

Say it isn't so!

[Dom]

sprit, I'm cautiously moving you up in my reads.

On the topic of reads Dom may I ask who your top say 4 town are in no particular order or better yet the four people you never Lynch Today?

I don't like naming who I think are good.

[Trustworthy Liberal]

sprit, I'm cautiously moving you up in my reads.

On the topic of reads Dom may I ask who your top say 4 town are in no particular order or better yet the four people you never Lynch Today?

I don't like naming who I think are good.

Fair

[Dom]

Bad:
iaafr
pawn
hyena











????

[Epignosis]

iaafr is bad. I've been right for days. They didn't vote on dragomir Day 1 because they were hoping a counterwagon would take it over, but didn't want to be slammed for getting on a counter wagon

And I hate that I second guessed myself.

This is good experience. Now I know that there are people out there who will stop at nothing to emotionally manipulate you into buying their bullshit.

I know better now.

[VOTE: iaafr] aubergine

[Jackofhearts2005]

Nothing was optimal about Eva's play, but if Radishes is that bad, why didn't she try and lynch him?

Didn’t she?

[Dom]

Nothing was optimal about Eva's play, but if Radishes is that bad, why didn't she try and lynch him?

Didn’t she?

She said that "he'd be taken care of" and refused to vote for him yesterday

[Trustworthy Liberal]

Nothing was optimal about Eva's play, but if Radishes is that bad, why didn't she try and lynch him?

Didn’t she?

Not untill pushed to and then not really hard kept going someone night kill them pretty much claimed Vig and said Radish's would die at night an impossible claim with the situation.

[Epignosis]

I think the civilians are in a good spot. Let's capitalize on that.

I am going to reevaluate my views on everyone, and I encourage everyone to do likewise.

[Epignosis]

My company drank the last of my bourbon though.

[Trustworthy Liberal]

My company drank the last of my bourbon though.

That sucks to hear.

And yeah going over reads as of today.

[Jackofhearts2005]

In the middle of Mac’s case on Epi, Epi says he would lynch me over Elephant, which is a logical fallacy because



......................I’m unlynchable.

[Epignosis]

My company drank the last of my bourbon though.

That sucks to hear.

And yeah going over reads as of today.

It's okay. He fixed my guitar. He can have all my bourbon (he's my brother. I'm artistic and he's mechanical. We look alike but have entirely different skills).

[Epignosis]

In the middle of Mac’s case on Epi, Epi says he would lynch me over Elephant, which is a logical fallacy because



......................I’m unlynchable.

If you remember, I had Elephant's question to Dragomir as "checkmate" (my word). I clearly misinterpreted the reasoning behind the question. I thought Elephant was shutting Dragomir down. It wasn't until later that Elephant said he was trying some "trap."

And while I didn't say it, I liked Elephant more for that.

Oh well.

[MacDougall]

[mention]Dom[/mention] why is Epi/Eva incompatible?

[Trustworthy Liberal]

In the middle of Mac’s case on Epi, Epi says he would lynch me over Elephant, which is a logical fallacy because



......................I’m unlynchable.

Everytime you say that I want to try you know that right

[Long Con]

What about LLD? She was synched up with Evenstar, and insisted very insistently that nutella was scum.

[Trustworthy Liberal]

My company drank the last of my bourbon though.

That sucks to hear.

And yeah going over reads as of today.

It's okay. He fixed my guitar. He can have all my bourbon (he's my brother. I'm artistic and he's mechanical. We look alike but have entirely different skills).

Oh fair always nice to have someone around with a different skill set for those situations

[Epignosis]

In the middle of Mac’s case on Epi, Epi says he would lynch me over Elephant, which is a logical fallacy because



......................I’m unlynchable.

If you remember, I had Elephant's question to Dragomir as "checkmate" (my word). I clearly misinterpreted the reasoning behind the question. I thought Elephant was shutting Dragomir down. It wasn't until later that Elephant said he was trying some "trap."

And while I didn't say it, I liked Elephant more for that.

Oh well.

In retrospect, I feel stupid here. I should have asked Elephant what he meant instead of assuming I knew what he meant.

[Epignosis]

All right. Cocktail. Then I dig into each of you.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Epi's ISO pretty much spews him teammates with Elephant tbh. It's damning shit.

Spoiler: show

Elephant - Elephant called my willingness to be lynched "reverse psychology." Anybody who knows me right now knows there is nothing reverse about working as much as I do. Elephant does not know me whatsoever, and I cannot judge Elephant for that. What I can do is judge Elephant for keeping his vote on me despite engaging with others. Would lynch, but not Day 1.

This is the first mention of Elephant. The "would lynch, but not day 1" is distancing 101. The commentary here is meaningless drivel designed to look like real play.

To answer Elephant's question: "why did you really select Hyena to be your first push?"

He was there at the same time I was. And to be clear, it wasn't a push. It was my first suspicion. It is now a suspicion that lingers in the back of my mind for now.

Goes out of his way to answer Elephant's question. Epi goes into detail to explain himself for Elephant. For the rest of us it's usually just insults or dismissal lol.

I have no interest in an Elephant lynch Day 1 or Day 2 (probably not Day 3 either).

Of course not.

I wonder if mafia had access to all the game threads. If that's the case, they could have seen the people here D2 having doubts about Evenstar and 112 and started pushing those two in preparation for when we all joined back up here.

Didn't you see Epignosis reading here?

I should rephrase that. One of us spotted Epignosis as viewing this thread D2. I don't remember who it was, it might have been Hyena. I don't remember what we concluded from it, but the "access" suggestion pinged this recollection.

The only time I was reading this thread after Day 1 was during Night 1. If I were reading this thread Day 2, what does that do to your opinion of me? Am I bad? Good? How does that information impact your view?

Elephant's prodding of Epi is always treated with respect and discipline, which is weird for Epi. Worth noting that Epi is a non busser type. Very much favours protecting teammates than burying them or engaging in distancing shenanigans.

Don't need anything in my play. The Syndicate people will tell you I'm a civilian. Get used to it hon. This is my civilian bod. It's sexy.

Who are "the syndicate people" who are still with us? Colin, Dom, Epignosis, Jack, Juliets, Long Con, Radishes, nutella, Quin, Sprityo? Anyone who knows, please confirm or correct this list!

This was tongue-in-cheek, a nod to some bizarre theory that gained currency in one of our sub-threads.

Just more distancing type shit that's null.

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

I'm with Michelle.

why though, her suspicion is largely based on things she has simply misunderstood from his posts. they have just been talking past each other and misinterpreting every point, it's the most frustrating exchange I've ever had to read. can you explain what you're seeing here because I think it's an unproductive town/town argument

I didn't even try to comprehend that mess.

Hijacking nutella's bad arguments towards Michelle's elephant sus. Empowering her bad read and defending Elephant at the same time. This is how scum defend teammates.

Looking at the poll, it doesn't look like there was ever a concerted effort to save Dragomir at all. If there was one, it was that sudden surge against me, not the votes on 112. If I'm correct about Evenstar, the only two unknowns (from my perspective, obviously) are Elephant and JackofHearts2005.

By trying to discredit the notion that there was an effort to save Dragomir, Epignosis is by proxy defending Elephant (and himself).

I feel like I've asked multiple people to talk to me about Elephant and I've been roundly ignored. Someone on this godforsaken dreamplane talk to me about the betrunked pachyderm.

I've put it on the backburner. Mea culpa.

I'll look into it later.

Nutella wants to talk about Elephant, Epignosis lolcats about it. Says he'll look into it later.

Dom, nutella:

Give Evenstar another Day. Find someone else. There isn't just two mafia members. And I don't think it's her right now. Revisit Day 6 if you must.

I think Evenstar is a dumb lynch.

Jack or Elephant?

Out of the two, I'd lynch Jack.

I still have to see about Elephant though.

Chooses Jack in a Jack vs. Elephant scenario. Vomit.

Elephant 4 [Long Con, iaafr, Michelle, Nutella]
JackofHearts2005 2 [Epignosis, Dom]
Long Con 2 [Macdougall, JackofHearts2005]
Nutella 2 [Lady Lambdadelta, Evenstar]
Evenstar 2 [112, Sprityo]
Epignosis 1 [Pawn Lelouch]
Hyena 1 [Master Radishes]
iaafr 1 [Quin]
Dom 1[Elephant]
Trustworthy Liberal 1 [Hyena]

3 Not Voting: Juliets, ColinisCool, Trustworthy Liberal

17 votes cast and the largest wagon is 4.

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

(I guess it's better than "nova/jack is obvious scum, lol", but not by much.)

@Hyena
@Elephant
@Quin
@Master Radishes
@Pawn Lelouch

All of you, make your strongest case for why the person you are on right now deserves to be in contention. If you don't have a case you're willing to put time in to defend, vote someone else.

@juliets
@ColinIsCool
@Trustworthy Liberal

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

Dom is an infolynch at this point. If he flips scum, Michelle is absolutely town, unless she refuses to commit -- and if she refuses, I need to re-evaluate her.
I have made a case on Radishes for the F3 lynch.
Lynching in my group is straight POE.

This is the worst post I've seen from Elephant.

The first thing he's actually said bad about Elephant. Very nothingburger though. And the followup renders any town peek he gains from it moot.

I looked back at my notes. I don't think I can vote for Elephant today.

Herp. Derp. Die.

@Everyone, Elephant wants me to screw the logic of my reads and this is a scum tactic.

let's lynch scum today, thanks for understanding

How does the post below factor into the idea that Elephant and Dragomir are teammates?

Ok @juliets since you're confused lemme clear up my suspicion against 112. So my belief of there being fake character claims came from this post. The roleplaying character thing pings me hard for reasons being that there's a manipulative edge to it. I only see one perspective to why someone would do this is the scum perspective. Role-play your character in order to make it more believable if you got to claim it. Get ppl in the mindset that your character is this person thus clouding them from looking too much into the actual claim.

There's no town perspective to it imo. Why should town bother themselves with roleplaying their character? All I can see it is for manipulative purposes to set something up in the future. Unless your role requires the role-play, which I don't think is the case for 112 here.

Thanks Drago I'll think through this while eating lunch.

So Drago, I guess where I'm left with this is I don't see any game related point in role-playing your character whether you are town, or scum, or 3P since the character doesn't tell us anything about the person's abilities or their role. JJJ suggested role-playing your character in the OP as just something fun to do.

For example, let's say 112 is role playing the character "loneliness" and she later claims she is "loneliness". What does that tell us exactly? Not her alignment, nor her abilities since there is no correlation. So it tells us nothing, the way I see it.

But no one else seems confused by this, just me, so I don't want to belabor the point. I'll think further on it as we go forward.

I've been assuming that whatever character you have would dictate your alignment, like if your character is a good guy, they'd be town right?

Could you please roleplay your character? A paragraph should suffice.

More defending Elephant.

@Everyone, Elephant wants me to screw the logic of my reads and this is a scum tactic.

let's lynch scum today, thanks for understanding

How does the post below factor into the idea that Elephant and Dragomir are teammates?

So Drago, I guess where I'm left with this is I don't see any game related point in role-playing your character whether you are town, or scum, or 3P since the character doesn't tell us anything about the person's abilities or their role. JJJ suggested role-playing your character in the OP as just something fun to do.

For example, let's say 112 is role playing the character "loneliness" and she later claims she is "loneliness". What does that tell us exactly? Not her alignment, nor her abilities since there is no correlation. So it tells us nothing, the way I see it.

But no one else seems confused by this, just me, so I don't want to belabor the point. I'll think further on it as we go forward.

I've been assuming that whatever character you have would dictate your alignment, like if your character is a good guy, they'd be town right?

Could you please roleplay your character? A paragraph should suffice.

How can you town read him for a meaningless post?
An invite to roleplay is nothing shading or distancing, I see there a normal convo I would never consider AI.

I don't agree that it's a meaningless post if you read the exchange fully. Elephant essentially shot down Dragomir's biggest angle when there would have been no reason to do so (unless you think someone would look back and give you credit for it like I'm doing, but I don't think that was Elephant's angle).

More defending Elephant.

Civilians

Dom - I would wager money Dom is a civilian.

Evenstar - For reasons.

Master Radishes - As I've alluded to, the Root and I had an exchange Day 2 that helped us better understand each other, and right now I find myself largely agreeing with his positions. I like what I see, though I don't have the same confidence I do with Dom.

juliets - I was concerned that I could not put juliets in this list as effortlessly as I have been able to in the past, but I reviewed my notes and the progression toward voting for Dragomir looks natural.

Michelle - Most of what I've seen from Michelle exudes a sense of genuineness that is difficult to fake for most. I wish Michelle (as with pretty much everyone) would examine suspects within the context of Day 1, since that is the most valuable Day the civilians have in the books, but I'm viewing Michelle as a civilian for now.

iaafr - I have no prior experience with iaafr, so take this with a grain of salt. However, iaafr posts with reckless abandon. If iaafr is mafia, then he doesn't give a toss about strategy or how his interactions with his teammates look. I mentioned something to this effect in another thread, but if I were on iaafr's team, I'd be pulling my hair out and maybe saying bad words in BTSC.

nutella - Anyone from here can tell you that nutella has been a perpetual blind spot for me for years. I feel that I'm turning a corner on that front. Alternatively, nutella always seems to have my number. I think the last couple of times I've been bad, she called it early and often. Maybe that's a fluke. Maybe it's a small sample size. I know she's correct about me again here, and I don't believe she's faking that. My conclusion from my prior analysis still holds: " I saw nutella as a civilian throughout Day 1, and I don’t see anything here that changes my mind."

Elephant - I concede it's a small point in his favor, but it exists and gives me a good impression of Elephant. Perhaps I'm misreading it, but oh well. Elephant wouldn't make my top five suspects today anyway.


People I need to Sort

ColinIsCool

Hyena

JackofHearts2005

Long Con

MacDougall

Quin

TurstworthyLiberal


Mafia

112 - In looking back, I still feel Dragomir and 112 were teammates softly pushing against each other. You can read those interactions in this spoiled post.

Pawn Lelouch - Pawn has done nothing productive today. He has his vote on me and is not engaging me. I don't know why he's voting for me unless it's still because of what is perhaps the worst reasoning I have ever witnessed.

LadyLambaDelta - Day 2, all LLD did was shit on my analyses. I replied, "There is no civilian reason to discredit my effort without attempting to engage with it in some capacity. If you believe I am mafia, then you should be able to show how the content of my effort is compatible with that hypothesis rather than merely claim that the effort itself is compatible with your hypothesis."

sprityo - sprityo makes the list because a lot of what he's doing looks like busy work. I don't understand the compilations of noteworthy posts he's making- I'm not seeing any value added. Is there any analysis or commentary to go with those?

Has Elephant (AND EVENSTAR) in his civ list. VOM-fucking-IT.

@Lady LambdaDelta
@juliets

What are both your opinions of Epi at this time?

Eva I think he is town. He says he doesn't have a meta but I find him more abrupt and less likely to explain why he sees things the way he does when he's scum.

He's been pretty abrupt and under-explainy IMO, and he's so catastrophically wrong about the game that I find it really hard to believe he's not scum if he's actually any good at this

Yeah okay.

So, generally, your D1 reads did quite well: two of your town calls flipped town, and onyl two of your "teammate compatible" assessments (who should probably be in the "to be sorted" pile rather than scum leans?) flipped town as well.

Last mention of Elephant is a nothingburger.

I'll add that Epignosis is too good of a player for this to be anything other than his scum game.

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

This is actually pretty damning for Epi. (Gj me reading Dom town by his own merits when DL3 was basically me, Dom and the two scummiest players in the game. Dom could have 0 posted and I should townread his ass anyway. Oh well.)

Like, I’ve played scum against Epi a bunch and I’ve never really pocketed him that I remember. I mostly just undermine him cause he’s such a prickly porcupine that it’s easier to convince other players he’s wrong and unhelpful than it is to convince Epi I’m town.

So does Elephant, who I don’t remember any non meme D1 content from, and who didn’t share a thread with Epi for most of the game, who has never played with Epi before and who was getting shat on as soon as we returned to DL1 pocket Epi this badly?

Doubtful.

The problem is that Epi feels town. So does Rabbit.

So like, they should fight.

[Dom]

@Dom why is Epi/Eva incompatible?

This is a prickly, personal attack-y road.

Epi's ISO pretty much spews him teammates with Elephant tbh. It's damning shit.

Spoiler: show

Elephant - Elephant called my willingness to be lynched "reverse psychology." Anybody who knows me right now knows there is nothing reverse about working as much as I do. Elephant does not know me whatsoever, and I cannot judge Elephant for that. What I can do is judge Elephant for keeping his vote on me despite engaging with others. Would lynch, but not Day 1.

This is the first mention of Elephant. The "would lynch, but not day 1" is distancing 101. The commentary here is meaningless drivel designed to look like real play.

To answer Elephant's question: "why did you really select Hyena to be your first push?"

He was there at the same time I was. And to be clear, it wasn't a push. It was my first suspicion. It is now a suspicion that lingers in the back of my mind for now.

Goes out of his way to answer Elephant's question. Epi goes into detail to explain himself for Elephant. For the rest of us it's usually just insults or dismissal lol.

I have no interest in an Elephant lynch Day 1 or Day 2 (probably not Day 3 either).

Of course not.

I wonder if mafia had access to all the game threads. If that's the case, they could have seen the people here D2 having doubts about Evenstar and 112 and started pushing those two in preparation for when we all joined back up here.

Didn't you see Epignosis reading here?

I should rephrase that. One of us spotted Epignosis as viewing this thread D2. I don't remember who it was, it might have been Hyena. I don't remember what we concluded from it, but the "access" suggestion pinged this recollection.

The only time I was reading this thread after Day 1 was during Night 1. If I were reading this thread Day 2, what does that do to your opinion of me? Am I bad? Good? How does that information impact your view?

Elephant's prodding of Epi is always treated with respect and discipline, which is weird for Epi. Worth noting that Epi is a non busser type. Very much favours protecting teammates than burying them or engaging in distancing shenanigans.

Don't need anything in my play. The Syndicate people will tell you I'm a civilian. Get used to it hon. This is my civilian bod. It's sexy.

Who are "the syndicate people" who are still with us? Colin, Dom, Epignosis, Jack, Juliets, Long Con, Radishes, nutella, Quin, Sprityo? Anyone who knows, please confirm or correct this list!

This was tongue-in-cheek, a nod to some bizarre theory that gained currency in one of our sub-threads.

Just more distancing type shit that's null.

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

I'm with Michelle.

why though, her suspicion is largely based on things she has simply misunderstood from his posts. they have just been talking past each other and misinterpreting every point, it's the most frustrating exchange I've ever had to read. can you explain what you're seeing here because I think it's an unproductive town/town argument

I didn't even try to comprehend that mess.

Hijacking nutella's bad arguments towards Michelle's elephant sus. Empowering her bad read and defending Elephant at the same time. This is how scum defend teammates.

Looking at the poll, it doesn't look like there was ever a concerted effort to save Dragomir at all. If there was one, it was that sudden surge against me, not the votes on 112. If I'm correct about Evenstar, the only two unknowns (from my perspective, obviously) are Elephant and JackofHearts2005.

By trying to discredit the notion that there was an effort to save Dragomir, Epignosis is by proxy defending Elephant (and himself).

I feel like I've asked multiple people to talk to me about Elephant and I've been roundly ignored. Someone on this godforsaken dreamplane talk to me about the betrunked pachyderm.

I've put it on the backburner. Mea culpa.

I'll look into it later.

Nutella wants to talk about Elephant, Epignosis lolcats about it. Says he'll look into it later.

Dom, nutella:

Give Evenstar another Day. Find someone else. There isn't just two mafia members. And I don't think it's her right now. Revisit Day 6 if you must.

I think Evenstar is a dumb lynch.

Jack or Elephant?

Out of the two, I'd lynch Jack.

I still have to see about Elephant though.

Chooses Jack in a Jack vs. Elephant scenario. Vomit.

Elephant 4 [Long Con, iaafr, Michelle, Nutella]
JackofHearts2005 2 [Epignosis, Dom]
Long Con 2 [Macdougall, JackofHearts2005]
Nutella 2 [Lady Lambdadelta, Evenstar]
Evenstar 2 [112, Sprityo]
Epignosis 1 [Pawn Lelouch]
Hyena 1 [Master Radishes]
iaafr 1 [Quin]
Dom 1[Elephant]
Trustworthy Liberal 1 [Hyena]

3 Not Voting: Juliets, ColinisCool, Trustworthy Liberal

17 votes cast and the largest wagon is 4.

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

(I guess it's better than "nova/jack is obvious scum, lol", but not by much.)

@Hyena
@Elephant
@Quin
@Master Radishes
@Pawn Lelouch

All of you, make your strongest case for why the person you are on right now deserves to be in contention. If you don't have a case you're willing to put time in to defend, vote someone else.

@juliets
@ColinIsCool
@Trustworthy Liberal

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

Dom is an infolynch at this point. If he flips scum, Michelle is absolutely town, unless she refuses to commit -- and if she refuses, I need to re-evaluate her.
I have made a case on Radishes for the F3 lynch.
Lynching in my group is straight POE.

This is the worst post I've seen from Elephant.

The first thing he's actually said bad about Elephant. Very nothingburger though. And the followup renders any town peek he gains from it moot.

I looked back at my notes. I don't think I can vote for Elephant today.

Herp. Derp. Die.

@Everyone, Elephant wants me to screw the logic of my reads and this is a scum tactic.

let's lynch scum today, thanks for understanding

How does the post below factor into the idea that Elephant and Dragomir are teammates?

Thanks Drago I'll think through this while eating lunch.

So Drago, I guess where I'm left with this is I don't see any game related point in role-playing your character whether you are town, or scum, or 3P since the character doesn't tell us anything about the person's abilities or their role. JJJ suggested role-playing your character in the OP as just something fun to do.

For example, let's say 112 is role playing the character "loneliness" and she later claims she is "loneliness". What does that tell us exactly? Not her alignment, nor her abilities since there is no correlation. So it tells us nothing, the way I see it.

But no one else seems confused by this, just me, so I don't want to belabor the point. I'll think further on it as we go forward.

I've been assuming that whatever character you have would dictate your alignment, like if your character is a good guy, they'd be town right?

Could you please roleplay your character? A paragraph should suffice.

More defending Elephant.

@Everyone, Elephant wants me to screw the logic of my reads and this is a scum tactic.

let's lynch scum today, thanks for understanding

How does the post below factor into the idea that Elephant and Dragomir are teammates?

I've been assuming that whatever character you have would dictate your alignment, like if your character is a good guy, they'd be town right?

Could you please roleplay your character? A paragraph should suffice.

How can you town read him for a meaningless post?
An invite to roleplay is nothing shading or distancing, I see there a normal convo I would never consider AI.

I don't agree that it's a meaningless post if you read the exchange fully. Elephant essentially shot down Dragomir's biggest angle when there would have been no reason to do so (unless you think someone would look back and give you credit for it like I'm doing, but I don't think that was Elephant's angle).

More defending Elephant.

Civilians

Dom - I would wager money Dom is a civilian.

Evenstar - For reasons.

Master Radishes - As I've alluded to, the Root and I had an exchange Day 2 that helped us better understand each other, and right now I find myself largely agreeing with his positions. I like what I see, though I don't have the same confidence I do with Dom.

juliets - I was concerned that I could not put juliets in this list as effortlessly as I have been able to in the past, but I reviewed my notes and the progression toward voting for Dragomir looks natural.

Michelle - Most of what I've seen from Michelle exudes a sense of genuineness that is difficult to fake for most. I wish Michelle (as with pretty much everyone) would examine suspects within the context of Day 1, since that is the most valuable Day the civilians have in the books, but I'm viewing Michelle as a civilian for now.

iaafr - I have no prior experience with iaafr, so take this with a grain of salt. However, iaafr posts with reckless abandon. If iaafr is mafia, then he doesn't give a toss about strategy or how his interactions with his teammates look. I mentioned something to this effect in another thread, but if I were on iaafr's team, I'd be pulling my hair out and maybe saying bad words in BTSC.

nutella - Anyone from here can tell you that nutella has been a perpetual blind spot for me for years. I feel that I'm turning a corner on that front. Alternatively, nutella always seems to have my number. I think the last couple of times I've been bad, she called it early and often. Maybe that's a fluke. Maybe it's a small sample size. I know she's correct about me again here, and I don't believe she's faking that. My conclusion from my prior analysis still holds: " I saw nutella as a civilian throughout Day 1, and I don’t see anything here that changes my mind."

Elephant - I concede it's a small point in his favor, but it exists and gives me a good impression of Elephant. Perhaps I'm misreading it, but oh well. Elephant wouldn't make my top five suspects today anyway.


People I need to Sort

ColinIsCool

Hyena

JackofHearts2005

Long Con

MacDougall

Quin

TurstworthyLiberal


Mafia

112 - In looking back, I still feel Dragomir and 112 were teammates softly pushing against each other. You can read those interactions in this spoiled post.

Pawn Lelouch - Pawn has done nothing productive today. He has his vote on me and is not engaging me. I don't know why he's voting for me unless it's still because of what is perhaps the worst reasoning I have ever witnessed.

LadyLambaDelta - Day 2, all LLD did was shit on my analyses. I replied, "There is no civilian reason to discredit my effort without attempting to engage with it in some capacity. If you believe I am mafia, then you should be able to show how the content of my effort is compatible with that hypothesis rather than merely claim that the effort itself is compatible with your hypothesis."

sprityo - sprityo makes the list because a lot of what he's doing looks like busy work. I don't understand the compilations of noteworthy posts he's making- I'm not seeing any value added. Is there any analysis or commentary to go with those?

Has Elephant (AND EVENSTAR) in his civ list. VOM-fucking-IT.

@Lady LambdaDelta
@juliets

What are both your opinions of Epi at this time?

Eva I think he is town. He says he doesn't have a meta but I find him more abrupt and less likely to explain why he sees things the way he does when he's scum.

He's been pretty abrupt and under-explainy IMO, and he's so catastrophically wrong about the game that I find it really hard to believe he's not scum if he's actually any good at this

Yeah okay.

So, generally, your D1 reads did quite well: two of your town calls flipped town, and onyl two of your "teammate compatible" assessments (who should probably be in the "to be sorted" pile rather than scum leans?) flipped town as well.

Last mention of Elephant is a nothingburger.

I'll add that Epignosis is too good of a player for this to be anything other than his scum game.

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

This is actually pretty damning for Epi. (Gj me reading Dom town by his own merits when DL3 was basically me, Dom and the two scummiest players in the game. Dom could have 0 posted and I should townread his ass anyway. Oh well.)

Like, I’ve played scum against Epi a bunch and I’ve never really pocketed him that I remember. I mostly just undermine him cause he’s such a prickly porcupine that it’s easier to convince other players he’s wrong and unhelpful than it is to convince Epi I’m town.

So does Elephant, who I don’t remember any non meme D1 content from, and who didn’t share a thread with Epi for most of the game, who has never played with Epi before and who was getting shat on as soon as we returned to DL1 pocket Epi this badly?

Doubtful.

The problem is that Epi feels town. So does Rabbit.

So like, they should fight.

[Epignosis]

112

either it doesn't really and you're making stuff up or you've fallen into the same trap as everyone else for scum-reading me lately

I feel like somebody in this interaction is being pocketed and I'm not sure who.

okay, well yeah, maybe, but also maybe not

Care to elaborate on why you think maybe not?

well, i know i'm town, and i don't see why the quoted is necessarily a pocket.

It's not necessarily one, the tone's just off to me. The question I have is "are you town reading Iaafr, and if so, why?"

yes because psychic

I think we're far enough along to call this "softball."

What is it based on then?

Read the last page and you'll find out.

I did. Why'd your read evaporate as soon as you got confirmation that flavor isn't alignment-indicative?

Then it'd mean no safe claims for scum, meaning 112 isn't roleplaying a safe claim.

Yeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.

No I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.

tell 'em

There are reasons why I posted what I did. None of them should particularly concern anyone.

Dragomir, Elephant, and Evenstar are engaged in this bullshit de jour.

Who else is? 112.

iaafr

creature
dragomir
michelle
sprityo
benson

evenstar
hyena

null line

112
macdougall
jackofhearts
nutella

why the fuck are both Creature and Dragomir so high here
Also not getting great vibes from benson
Nutella and Jack ought to be higher, too
overall, garbage readslist, making me feel worse about Iaafr

This is bad as hell. How can you use the fact that you disagree with the read list against iaafr? Ppl have different perspectives and won't always share your own. I despise the shade that you're throwing at iaafr here.

I hate the tone of the bolded.

I know this isn't an Evenstar interaction, but "I hate the tone of the bolded" says nothing about the bolded.

Like I have Evenstar and Hyena both telling me I am not addressing cases. Evenstar literally has only accused me of being frustrated which I've addressed and Hyena is upset with me for answering him and then not saying anything further? Both of them are whack but this is the same type of shit that Evenstar did in the WC. Just accusing people of things that aren't even a thing. Would lynch on sight. Self vote etc.

No, I'm accusing you of over-justifying everything you do. Your tone sucks, and while your reactions to pressure were initially encouraging I'm nowhere near satisfied with them. Cut the bullshit and give me something real.

siding with eva here tbh

Hey Mac, what do you think of this one?

Anyway, 112 and Evenstar are the two people I want lynched. 112 to see if D1's wagons were v/w or w/w, and Evenstar just for stuff at EoD1.

A reaction but no opinion.

More Evenstar and 112 stuff:

Drago went after them very early in the game. Would he do that to a new teammate he's unfamiliar with?

lol, I remember this interaction and I remember thinking it was "over the top" enough that it could have been a w/w interaction based on the model I have in my head of Eva's playstyle. In this case, I think it would've been an attempt to distance from Dragomir. She also explicitly said that even though she didn't like Dragomir, she didn't want to lynch him yesterday, which was why had her vote on 112.

Interestingly enough, 112's vote was ON Evenstar, so they were both voting each other EoD.

My vote wasn't on Eva. LAL.

I just rechecked the votes again. I could've sworn they said you were voting Evenstar a while back.

Oh. I did vote for her at points. I thought you meant I ended on her.

This interaction is more for people to consider Hyena. I won't say more. Just look at it. Tell me what you think.

lol, Eva, why are you shitting on Epi's wall of reads? I thought they were pretty cool. I wish I had seen them sooner. I like Epi a whole lot more today than I did D1. <3

because it's the same wall of reads he's been posting every day since literally the start of D2, and I am salty that this has been good enough to let him pass for town for this entire time

I am town, Pawn is town, Rabbit is town, Epi is scum, Radishes is scum.

You're upset because I've been repeating things about Dragomir that the vast majority of people have not had a chance to hear?

And I'm bad for that?

You are not a civilian. And if you are, you are one who needs to rethink her strategy.

why would anyone who isn't a wolf be namedropping dragomir this far into the game? who even remembers d1 at this point?

This is smelly ass garbage. Take it out.

112 - suspect.
Evenstar- suspect
Pawn - suspect

No way in hell I'm voting Hyena today.

what tf have I done to be suspect?

I was the best poster in the other dream level 3 days running.

Nobody cares about your dreams.

And Evenstar, even if you are a civilian, you are derailing matters. I'm comfortable lynching you regardless.

How was it you put it?

Ah yes.

I need you...resolved.

like this is a cartoon villain post ffs

Catching up right now. Going through from the beginning of day 2 and today simultaneously. All I will say is that I want the head of the people behind the Spiny lynch.

it is so fucking good to see you again. help me dunk radishes please.

So how the fuck did iaafr get lynched? In what world does that happen?

who lynched iaafr? told u he was town.

iaafr hasn't been lynched (yet) and how did 112 know iaafr was good?

Too much I say.

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

Vote mafia.

@Long Con
@Quin

Did ya’ll miss me? I haven’t seen you since I got back. Gimmie some #content.

Soonish. I'll give you my catchup hot takes, still reading up. Epignosis - Evenstar took a turn when Epi decided she's not scum but is actually town, for the Four Reasons. I was seeing Ep as the Civ side of things there, but this turnaround could be a calculated pocketing ploy. LLD and Eva voting nutella is not that cool, nutella has looked very town over the days, and the timing of Eva's vote wasn't the best. 112 maybe sketchy. Michelle maybe sketchy.

This is a very reserved style of writing and the post seems to follow a checklist.

This is an observation without a judgment.

ill just stay on elephant for now because im torn here

hyena wagon building would be nice

would prefer @112 get off evenstar for today and talk to me more about hyena and elephant

i dont trust these animals

ok. i am about to catch up.

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

Vote a different mafia member.

Eva-- forget nutella and Epi for a second-- I'm not voting for either.

Who is bad and why?

Radishes, because of everything that happened in D4, plus compelling reasons that I can't share. Willing to let the vig get him though.
Quin, because they've lurked through the entire game and have a wolfy pickup today.
If it's not Nutella, Hyena is very likely scum. If neither of them are, look at Long Con.
112 could still be scum and I'm very tempted to resolve them today. They've felt weird this whole game and they had a wolfy vote earlier.

Never scum:
LLD
Rabbit
Pawn Lelouch

do it. resolve me. i dare you.

++++

112 may be lynched.

[Dom]

IDK it's a mixed bag, [mention]MacDougall[/mention] in terms of Epi/Eva.

But Epi/iaafr is 0%.

[Epignosis]

You all feel free to discuss me all you want.

I will commence to sorting out mafia from civilians.

[Epignosis]

Dom

Dom's good. That is all.

[Epignosis]

Oof. Hyena's going to take a while. Shit.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention]
Thanks for reading all my jokes again. I love attention.

[Dom]

I feel uneasy af.

[Epignosis]

I feel uneasy af.

For once I'm going to tell you to trust your feelings.

I am not on a team with Evenstar (or Elephant or Dragomir).

Frankly, I'm glad you articulated the points that you did, because I feel the same way: If you are mafia, I would be disappointed in you. For that reason, I know you are not.

Go from there with confidence and do your thing.

[Jackofhearts2005]

That took so little convincing.

What do you mean? I'm the one who said Eva's calling out of iaafr to go vote Hyena is a bad look for iaafr. I convinced myself when I looked back over EOD during the night phase. It's was just like her giving her teammate FTF away as scum in EOD 2 In WC 1.

I thought you were saying I was too easily convinced. Maybe I misread you. Apologies if I did.

You votes just seem very whimsical this game.

Oh, I see.

But don't you also think iaafr looks bad? I don't know why a vote for him looks whimsical. I feel more sure about this vote than I've felt about any since the first day.

I don't recall you suspecting him before today.

I've suspected him since Day 2.

There's no way iaafr and epi are on the same team

You’re saying this based off of the interaction on day 2 I’m assuming?

And 3.
And 4.

It was really ugly. I'd like to think Epi wouldn't do that. He knew I was actually upset.

Epi wasn’t upset. You and Iaafr were upset. I don’t think you faked that. Idk if Iaafr could fake that or not. There was nothing for Epi to fake.

[Epignosis]

Folks, the mafia are reeling right now. Get it together. Amp it up. If you are a civilian, light a fire under people's asses.

[Epignosis]

I'm going to table Hyena. Next.

[Dom]

What do you mean? I'm the one who said Eva's calling out of iaafr to go vote Hyena is a bad look for iaafr. I convinced myself when I looked back over EOD during the night phase. It's was just like her giving her teammate FTF away as scum in EOD 2 In WC 1.

I thought you were saying I was too easily convinced. Maybe I misread you. Apologies if I did.

You votes just seem very whimsical this game.

Oh, I see.

But don't you also think iaafr looks bad? I don't know why a vote for him looks whimsical. I feel more sure about this vote than I've felt about any since the first day.

I don't recall you suspecting him before today.

I've suspected him since Day 2.

There's no way iaafr and epi are on the same team

You’re saying this based off of the interaction on day 2 I’m assuming?

And 3.
And 4.

It was really ugly. I'd like to think Epi wouldn't do that. He knew I was actually upset.

Epi wasn’t upset. You and Iaafr were upset. I don’t think you faked that. Idk if Iaafr could fake that or not. There was nothing for Epi to fake.

I know Epi better than you, and I'd be incredibly disappointed in him for doing what he did.

[Epignosis]

Yeah, iaafr is Evenstar's teammate. Stand by.

[Dom]

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention]
Epi knows how upset I was and I can not accept it if he was egging that on.

[Dom]

Sigh. Day 2 from Eva.

@Pawn Lelouch Mind explaining why you told me Mac was responsible for "crusading" on the Epi wagon when he... really didn't do dick all except have a bout of paranoia?

Since he is the person who basically started the Epi wagon and was the person who got people to vote on it.

Since no one actually posted any real reasons to put their vote on him outside of vague paranoia that mimicked Mac's. They just followed onto him out of fearmongering about Epi's scum game from Mac.

So from my perspective Mac is by far the most prominent reason and person why Epi was a wagon. I stand by what I said.

Okay, this is a much better answer. I do agree that Mac was the catalyst, but IMO the jumps on looked very opportunistic and scummy, which said to me that Mac was a wrong townie getting taken advantage of by uhhhh fuck I didn't write it down I was expecting to have the thread still

Epignosis do you recall who followed Mac onto your wagon? There were like three votes in quick succession, I think one of them was Iaafr?

MacDougall was one. iaafr was one. Hyena was one. novaselinenever was one. There was one more, but it is eluding me. The most I had at one point was five votes.

Yeah Nova super deserves pressure today after following Mac like that.

Speaking of which, @Macdougall: Stop overthinking and get out of your Epi tunnel, this man is town. You're reading way too much in and letting your paranoia get the best of you.

... if 112 is town, then Epi could still be a scum wagon.

... and he hasn't checked back into the thread since he dumped all his night stuff on us.

... and he said he wouldn't...

I'm going to bed. I will not be available until evening tomorrow.

Please someone copy my stuff. Let others see it if I don't wake up.

... is this

literally

my qualifier scumgame

post giant walls, don't reply to criticism, let everyone assume no scum would ever do that much work?

the appeal to "please save my work" smells deeply of LAMIST to me

"look at all this I've done, don't let it be lost"

did I get pocketed?

@Pawn Lelouch give me a second pair of eyes here I'm having a crisis of confidence

[Jackofhearts2005]

Weren't people very suspicious of TL yesterday?
I didn't get it because I haven't read what I missed.

What do people in that camp think today?

Kinda came out of the blue tbh.

[Epignosis]

iaafr

I am not going to mention every interaction, but these require attention.

in fact im just gonna leave my vote there and afk the rest of the day

[VOTE: evenstar] aubergine

This happened at 9:23pm EST.

iaafr continued posting for many moons after.

damn it I'm wrong about either Iaafr or benson and I'm not sure which

both probs

What a silly thing for Evenstar to say and an even sillier thing for iaafr to comment on in such a way.

Lynching Evenstar Day 1 is -EV. Do otherwise.

at some point today, could you find the time to iso and develop a comprehensive opinion on nutella?

if you already have one just re-evaluate her

that's all i ask of you

I talked about Evenstar and iaafr quoted my post to...talk about nutella?

Evenstar werent you scumreading dragomir at some point

what happened to that

To me this is it. The tone is accusatory, but not really.

iaafr

epignosis
macdougall
benson
evenstar
spiny creature

jackofhearts
creature
sprityo
juliets

nutella
long con
vanity.

tonystarkprime
dragomir
hyena

vanity is low on the list because i remember like two bursts of really good activity but i need more and im suddenly paranoid a lot of its fabricated but this could just be dumb paranoia

Evenstar is at the top (someone who is likely still in BTSC) and Dragomir is at the bottom (someone who likely isn't).

ill just stay on elephant for now because im torn here

hyena wagon building would be nice

would prefer @112 get off evenstar for today and talk to me more about hyena and elephant

i dont trust these animals

Torn indeed.

desired wagons: hyena, longcon, quin

desired vetoes: elephant, evenstar

Bingo.

I'll stop there.

[Dom]

Weren't people very suspicious of TL yesterday?
I didn't get it because I haven't read what I missed.

What do people in that camp think today?

Kinda came out of the blue tbh.

What do you mean?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I thought you were saying I was too easily convinced. Maybe I misread you. Apologies if I did.

You votes just seem very whimsical this game.

Oh, I see.

But don't you also think iaafr looks bad? I don't know why a vote for him looks whimsical. I feel more sure about this vote than I've felt about any since the first day.

I don't recall you suspecting him before today.

I've suspected him since Day 2.

There's no way iaafr and epi are on the same team

You’re saying this based off of the interaction on day 2 I’m assuming?

And 3.
And 4.

It was really ugly. I'd like to think Epi wouldn't do that. He knew I was actually upset.

Epi wasn’t upset. You and Iaafr were upset. I don’t think you faked that. Idk if Iaafr could fake that or not. There was nothing for Epi to fake.

I know Epi better than you, and I'd be incredibly disappointed in him for doing what he did.

You do and I wouldn’t.

People shouldn’t get so riled up about a game. If you aren’t allowed to be mean as a wolf or fake emotion as a wolf, townies should have to be nicer. Like there should be no things that only townies are allowed to say, which means I tolerate a lot from a wolf. Plus, demotivating is to a degree a legit wolf strategy.

I’m not really talking about Epi at this point of course.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Weren't people very suspicious of TL yesterday?
I didn't get it because I haven't read what I missed.

What do people in that camp think today?

Kinda came out of the blue tbh.

What do you mean?

The TL push. Mac and Rabbit were on it iirc. Don’t remember who else. The later points to a town TL plus I like TL’s posts today.

[Epignosis]

afk rest of phase

thanks for the warm and evenhanded questioning

actually I've decided I'm going to not vote in case I'm wrong on pawn

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

Two mafia got got in the same phase.

Exciting right?

Not for iaafr.