Persona 5 Mafia [Game End]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Tony and Long Con

"Sort out" GTH read -- default

Otherwise there's nothing. Shocker.

[MacDougall]

You civ read Jack for the distancey wafflebus eh?

I'd love to see your case. Go crazy.

It's the things where you said you'd find it hilarious to make a case out of if you were Mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You civ read Jack for the distancey wafflebus eh?

I'd love to see your case. Go crazy.

It's the things where you said you'd find it hilarious to make a case out of if you were Mafia.

I would expect higher-quality distancing/bussing than that from Jackofhearts2005. "Gosh I wish I could read TSP"

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Tony and MacDougall

Spoiler: show

TSP, Sprityo and Speedchuck are Mafia.

There’s a problem here

Spoiler: show

Well that’s a curated list feels like
Creature town, Rej slight town, Drago more scum than Jack or Epi, Nutella scummish Mac probably town no reads on anybody else

Tony gave him the probably town sticker; it's unclear why. I don't really care.

Spoiler: show

I'm pretty down for this apparent consensus. My only concern is that there is too much of a consensus... but then again, I think the going hypothesis is that he'd only have one teammate and it's likely to be sprityo who's been quiet anyway. So, [VOTE: tonystarkprime] aubergine

Did you just steal random sprityo suspicion from Mac?

I like this for Mac. Tony credited nutella's sprityo gripe entirely to Mac as means of making her look worse. You're just parroting this dude strikes me as something more likely to employed when this dude is a civilian. I struggle to articulate why. There's something revealing about the mindset I think. Sorry I can't be less vague.

Spoiler: show

Back to buckets:

One of Rej of Drago
One or two of everyone else

I’m not voting for Mac he’s town and he’s better than I am so the cost benefit analysis doesn’t work out for self pres

TonyStarkPrime, why is MacDougall such a confident town read that it surpasses your self-preservation?

as th
because mac is better than me and because I''m stubborn and dramatic.
I think nutella/Mac is a legitimate possibility here but Mac is the second in that pairing and theres absolutely no reason to be voting there for now in my mind

This has that hail-mary heave look. Tony needed credit any way he could get it, and he tried this. It made no actual sense, as Tony's confidence in Mac wasn't supported by any content in the thread. I'm inclined to view this as Tony selecting an active and vocal civilian to stand up for and maybe eek out some support from that player if he could.

Spoiler: show

jjj/Mac for most coordinated mafia fight of the year award

Joke


"Town unless with nutella" GTH read -- Mac is a standout on this list with all these words stuck next to his name. I don't think I care.

Lowest-priority vote

Spoiler: show

Drago is tunnelling off omgus and or is scum
nutella I have no clue but probably scum
Jack actually suspects me? I think he's town
Mac thinks jack is scum so he'll lynch me to prove it

I need stances. Are they civilians or not?

town
scum
town
scum

Now suddenly Mac is scum. We are in full flail.

EOD gifs -- Decent look even if WIFOM.

~~~~~

Spoiler: show

TSP, Sprityo and Speedchuck are Mafia.

Spoiler: show

Epi seems fine. I have no reason to suspect him. He seems to be his usual self.

Jay talk to me about TSP and sprityo.

Mac was working out Tony-inclusive theory early in the game, including this instance with me. Cool.

Spoiler: show

I am pretty comfortable with Rej, Drago and Jack. Very comfortable with Nutella now. Epi is fine for now. TSP and sprityo are not civ. Sprityo has been nothing but a lame troll. Jay seems bad but we are all prone to tunneling him I think so I'll try to be cautious.

Creature is a little bit null, which I don't particularly like.

Pedal to the metal.

Spoiler: show

Wish I knew how to read Sprityo or TSP.

Pretend you do.

I’m annoyed at myself for not just voting Tony.

Weird

These relate to Tony via Jack, and they jive with the notion that Mac was getting bad vibes from Jack with respect to Tony.

Spoiler: show

Nah I changed my mind. TSP's explanations are too sincere. It doesn't vibe.

I also don't like how Jack did all that stuff he just did, at all.

@JaggedJimmyJay how do you feel about the fact that TSP just voted for you?

Bad. Worse that he promptly moved it. Answering nutella's JJJ/Tony theory in that manner looks like a challenge, and it looks like one intended to make her or others believe the theory to be true. The movement of the vote accentuates that. See gang! I voted JJJ and then backed off! Isn't that juicy??? After you lynch me you can take him out next like you already want to do so bad!

You may not have noticed but he voted for Epignosis without announcing it, then moved it to Rej.

It feels like Mafia but it's too obvious I think.

I'm currently looking for any good reason why TSP would vote for Rej.

Well I just voted for Rej too. I have my reason but I'm gonna reserve them. I want to see what TSP says.

Nutella and TSP are both too quiet.

I think TSP is a wolf and Jack is bussing him.

Around EOD Mac was considering both sides of Tony, and I certainly don't hold that against him. That's the job of a civilian.

~~~~~

Conclusion: I don't emerge from this with new gripes against Mac. It works in his favor.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Tony and nutella

Spoiler: show

I’m not commenting on JJJ/Nutella because I hate day zero arguments around two people with little substance. Gut is both town.

TMI

Spoiler: show

Oh right because they both found mac's speed mistake suspicious where I just thought it was a brain fart lol.

There are words being put into my mouth here. I thought Mac was joking about us posting song lyrics. I noticed and laughed and said something. I guess read it as you want

A bit indignant (highlighted) in a way that I think looks like Tony griping at a civilian.

Spoiler: show

Ah you grouped them as both suspecting Jay. Drago came to it independently though while jack just sheeped me.

That’s worse. Scum puts in more effort. Drago came in, said something someone else had said, came up with basically the same reasoning, and that was it. I wouldn’t call that coming to it independently

The exchange about Drago and Jack featured nutella heavily. It doesn't mean much to me.

Spoiler: show

@
TonyStarkPrime, where are you at now in terms of reads? I reviewed your 53 posts and saw only a few:

[Creature lean town via WIFOM]
[Dragomir/Jack similar, slight orange]
[Epi GTH scum]

Do you still feel these reads? What about other people?

Well that’s a curated list feels like
Creature town, Rej slight town, Drago more scum than Jack or Epi, Nutella scummish Mac probably town no reads on anybody else

"Scummish". Alrighty. Don't care about this.

Spoiler: show

I'm pretty down for this apparent consensus. My only concern is that there is too much of a consensus... but then again, I think the going hypothesis is that he'd only have one teammate and it's likely to be sprityo who's been quiet anyway. So, [VOTE: tonystarkprime] aubergine

Did you just steal random sprityo suspicion from Mac?

Opportunistic. Good for nutella.

Spoiler: show

Sigh Drago and Nutella are both scum I am speaking out
Creature Jack Mac are probably my “town core” so there’s some overlap on the lists at least

He may as well have pulled two names out of a hat as suspects.

Spoiler: show

I'm pretty down for this apparent consensus. My only concern is that there is too much of a consensus... but then again, I think the going hypothesis is that he'd only have one teammate and it's likely to be sprityo who's been quiet anyway. So, [VOTE: tonystarkprime] aubergine

Nutella’s 20 some posts before this are all about Jay. Jay says they look authentic. Okay. Apparently in that time Nutella picked up Mac’s random scumreads from the beginning.

I don't know why my name exists in this post. This continues to deride nutella over her sprityo suspicion.

Spoiler: show

There's only one positive thing about TSP. He's going against the grain with the scum read on me. Though, I'm not sure what to make of it.

Ehh I feel like it could be kind of a hail mary though/trying to make it look like he has real original opinions and trying to set off discussion about literally anyone besides himself (and sprityo)

Sprit has not made me feel any better, his mac vote is nasty. I really think occam's razor here is just tony/sprit team... but is this game really that easy? It may not be, but my inclination is to go ahead and lynch them and if the game isn't over then we can buckle down on finding a deepwolf (or it's just jay or epi who wouldn't be so "deep" to me lol)

why would i have to fake original opinions when it seems like I could just take reads from others and shoot to the top of the townie list

alternatively

"I feel like TSP is scum because he said something different and that's too much work"

alternatively

wait where is Sprityo coming from again have you actually said anything about Sprityo also why do people suspect sprityo, whose game plan apparently in all cases is apparently just "exist"? Discuss.

Why would I have to do [the thing that I did] when I could have just [done the super bad suspicious thing you did and got credit for it]?

Doesn't look like teammate stuff.

"Scum" GTH read and also tacked on as a potential teammate of Mac. Whatever.

Top priority vote / Moved up to third priority -- If you're going to distance from a teammate that you know isn't getting lynched (nutella), why move her up? Keep her at the bottom, sell it hard.

Spoiler: show

Mmmmmmm could mac and I both be right could it be Jay/Tony w/w
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

hmmmmmm

I'll take that dare

vote:JJJ

OH, YOU THINK JAY IS MY TEAMMATE NUTELLA? WELL JUST WATCH WHAT I HAVE IN STORE FOR YOU NUTELLA!



Good look.

~~~~~

Spoiler: show

Hot take tony and jack w/w

That'll be a fun hot take if Mac ends up right.

Agrees with my rainbow featuring Tony in bottom tier

Spoiler: show

I'm pretty down for this apparent consensus. My only concern is that there is too much of a consensus... but then again, I think the going hypothesis is that he'd only have one teammate and it's likely to be sprityo who's been quiet anyway. So, [VOTE: tonystarkprime] aubergine

nutella joined Dragomir and I on an immediate Tony wagon right as Day 1 began. Good call.

I'm skipping some stuff here that seems trivial.

Spoiler: show

Mac is just piggying drago though which is not a great reason. I'm basically fine with a tony lynch but I just feel like it's the lukewarm option and lynching jay would be more interesting.

At least I'm interesting.

(I don't hold this against her)

nutella ended with her vote on Tony.

~~~~~

Conclusion: She looks cleaner than anyone I'd assessed before her.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jay’s analysis has brought him to where I was at start of the night.

Wooooooo

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay’s analysis has brought him to where I was at start of the night.

Wooooooo

Not sure what that means.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Tony and Rej

Spoiler: show

scum would either give heat to JJJ/nutella tizzy
or scum would lay low during a tizzy
or scum would sidecomment the tizzy

IF the tizzy is a towntizzy, so if JJJ is town I understand his read here, which simply puts you into the corner of suspects

Ah! I completely forgot how scum usually operates in t/t tizzies. They do one or more of these 3 things. I remember now how Beky did the same in the Hogwarts game against you, or how NeoRetro played when I was in a tizzy. TSP is acting like this. Scum generally does lay low and let the townies go at each other's throats or opportunistically jump in to push the mislynch. Good job Rej.

I honestly don't like TSPs wifom here, saying scum would put in more effort, I have seen it otherwise so many times, each side has their own way of putting in effort. Each sides has it's pros to utilize, that's why this D0 statement of TSP is cwac and not correct.

I agree, somewhat.

Scum does one of three things in (x situation): says nothing, says something indirect, says something direct

it says nothing, but it brings forward lame scum excuses like this one ^

“I said something stupid and you’re scum for pointing it out”

I don’t think it’s AI that you say it but Drago’s latch onto it seems opportunistic because it’s so obviously a blah argument

I just want you to know that I don't suspect you for this, Rej. Okay? Don't worry. Not you. Just Dragomir.

Good look for Rej.

Spoiler: show

I wanna know why @MacDougall scumread the host.

me too, this was the most halfassed post I have seen for a while, it's maybe because it's D0 and he is comfortable and careless which tends for me to be town mentality

adding short P2 reads here:

nutella wants to start a wagon on JJJ and her post of linking me a JC to start a vote on JJJ made it look like she tried to get us to vote JJJ together
Dragomir flows alongside nutella, questioning people

so 2 options: both are town and rly see a threat in the JJJ tizzy or both are the mafia that wants to play as towncore
I exclude second for now because this would be way too agressive for mafia (especially D0) and mafia always wants to reach lylo/mylo without risks in this size of setup and I think Dragomir and nutella should be aware of this

more posts to come, but excuse my lazy ass

Why are you discounting that just one could be scum here?

I had to google what discount means, dafug this wording man xD
I said I include a nutella + Dragomir combo as possible and with the setupsize I already speculated on there being more than one scum, clearly. A 1 v 10 sounds too imbalanced.

Okay I stand by this wording and think that you probably willfully misinterpreted but I’ll ask again in good faith:

Why do you think that it’s not possible for just one of them to be scum (presumably with other people)

I think this exchange continued from this point, but whatever. It's Something To Talk About. I take nothing from it.

Spoiler: show

Do we know how many wolves there are?

I love setup speculation, so based on the setup I'd say we are not in a 1v10 and we have atleast 2 wolves. The PRs are closed information so we can't guess the scumbalance in this game until flips happen.

I have bad knowledge about Persona 5 but I don't exclude a solid mafia of atleast 2 people.

Well we aren’t in a 1v10 because definitionally that is not mafia and I’d throw a temper tantrum. I was thinking 3. That too many? Safe to say 2 or 3 in any case?
What’s a PR

Also a 1v10 is possible, it would just be a cultgame or a MV (Multivoter) game

Okay sure I don’t know what those are

never played a cult game?

a multivoter is a serial that gains +1 vote for each successful lynched townie, and his goal is to outvote town

No I play normal mafia and occasionally crazy mafia but typically there’s like a mafia
Okay my guess is cult can recruit people I guess that’s mafiaesque but I also would not like it

Mechanical and setup chatter. Meh. Tony took advantage of the opportunity to make posts. It's at least plausible that Rej gave him that opportunity on purpose -- a reach.

Spoiler: show

@
TonyStarkPrime, where are you at now in terms of reads? I reviewed your 53 posts and saw only a few:

[Creature lean town via WIFOM]
[Dragomir/Jack similar, slight orange]
[Epi GTH scum]

Do you still feel these reads? What about other people?

Well that’s a curated list feels like
Creature town, Rej slight town, Drago more scum than Jack or Epi, Nutella scummish Mac probably town no reads on anybody else

Slight town read. This post was player salad-adjacent and could be interpreted a thousand ways.

Spoiler: show

Back to buckets:

One of Rej of Drago
One or two of everyone else

I’m not voting for Mac he’s town and he’s better than I am so the cost benefit analysis doesn’t work out for self pres

Tony made his suspicion a Rej/Dragomir dichotomy for some reason. Okay. He expanded at Jack's prod.

"Scum" GTH read -- default

Third in lynch priority / Later second -- This was as our late wagons started to take shape. Rej was becoming a possibility. Tony liked it.

Tony continued griping about Rej frequently in the final hour. It was the counterwagon, so that's natural. Tony's vote for Rej wasn't branded as purely self-preservation. He was promoting the lynch. That's nice for Rej, especially since Tony flipped as a vanilla mafioso. The other one(s) have power role potential.

Spoiler: show

Rej is town btw

do you have better reasons than "drago isn't ripping him to shreds"

Tony grabbed the same question I was asking about Rej and used it himself. Looks like he was capitalizing on incorrect suspicions that I held to help push his only viable counter.

~~~~~

I'm going to use a lot of links for Rej's posts given their often multi-quote structure.

Rej shaded Tony for his handling of the nutella/JJJ "tizzy"

Orange in the rainbow list

Lame scum excuses @ Tony

Spoiler: show

I’m not commenting on JJJ/Nutella because I hate day zero arguments around two people with little substance. Gut is both town.

I skimmed through TSPs ISO because he is also on a hot seat currently.
If he really is scum then a reason for the above statement could be TMI. In a sense of that TSP knows both are civillians and from scum perspective he couldn't add much to the V/V scenario. It saw already scum doing such sorts of mistakes.

I won't move to TSP for that reason, but I just wanted to let you guys know that I didn't like this. Even if it is D0.

I just came to the same conclusion about the same post. Nice look. Similar notion continued

~~~~~

Conclusion: Again my interpretations are predominantly positive.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jay’s analysis has brought him to where I was at start of the night.

Wooooooo

Not sure what that means.

Gj figuring out me, Mac, Nutella and Drago are town and Epi is somewhat suspicious and LC has no posts.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Tony and sprityo

Spoiler: show

I'm pretty down for this apparent consensus. My only concern is that there is too much of a consensus... but then again, I think the going hypothesis is that he'd only have one teammate and it's likely to be sprityo who's been quiet anyway. So, [VOTE: tonystarkprime] aubergine

Did you just steal random sprityo suspicion from Mac?

This can be called protective of sprityo by way of discrediting his accuser.

Spoiler: show

-JaggedJimmyJay
-Dragomir
-nutella
-Rej
-Long Con

-MacDougall
-Epignosis
-Jackofhearts2005
-TonyStarkPrime
-Creature

I skimmed through the 8 pages, I split the player list in half since bigger numbers are easier to see, and i'll be working from the bottom pool until further notice as scum candidates and assuming the top half are town. Long Con Pending.

This is basically it on sprityo’s reads the rest of the time is spent taunting Jack and Mac as far as I can tell. It’s not a great list. It’s not a terrible list.

if sprityo is not the alignment that sprityo is is this different?
(Is this list the same for scum and town? What makes it one over the other)

Tony assesses sprityo's actual reads and says a whole lot of nothing.

Spoiler: show

wait where is Sprityo coming from again have you actually said anything about Sprityo also why do people suspect sprityo, whose game plan apparently in all cases is apparently just "exist"? Discuss.

The protection of sprityo is a bit more overt in this case, so there's some room to view it as TMI. I'm iffy on that.

Spoiler: show

I did my iso on Sprityo and...I can't read him. Most of his posts are him trolling. The only ones of noteworthy are his vote on Mac and that post where he split the player list into a top half and bottom half. I sense omgus in his vote considering the lack of reasoning against Mac and how it came much after Mac was throwing heat at him(but he did put Mac in the bottom half list which he said he'd be looking into the most).

Now, I'd rather not get into wifom here but it's hard not to think about if scum would play like he's doing. I can't say I scum read him nor town read him.

this is the correct opinion

Tony supports Dragomir on having no opinion of sprityo. The absence of a read seems to be Tony's desired platform.

"Town" GTH read -- Perhaps he felt he couldn't justify calling him scum after the previous comments.

Second-lowest on the voting priority / Later the absolute lowest -- that's a striking placement for sprityo, particularly given Tony's push to have him read as null.

~~~~~

Tony is bottom half on sprityo's reads list

Spoiler: show

I'm pretty down for this apparent consensus. My only concern is that there is too much of a consensus... but then again, I think the going hypothesis is that he'd only have one teammate and it's likely to be sprityo who's been quiet anyway. So, [VOTE: tonystarkprime] aubergine

fuck the consensus, I do whaT I WAnt

sprityo rebels like a classic teenage hero against the apparent consensus wagon on Tony.

Spoiler: show

From a meta argument

You can say TSP should have no fear of being lynched since if he’s civilian, he can replace in to long con.

Long con is here now though and the votes have already been had

This was after Tony's death and before his flip. Dunno what to do with it but here you go.

~~~~~

Conclusion: I can go either way here. It's a net negative if anything. That means sprityo remains a candidate to be a teammate.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay’s analysis has brought him to where I was at start of the night.

Wooooooo

Not sure what that means.

Gj figuring out me, Mac, Nutella and Drago are town and Epi is somewhat suspicious and LC has no posts.

As it stands I don't see many suspects at all. Game feels good.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Cliffs for Tony teammate compatibility:

Creature - meh
Dragomir - no
Epignosis - yikes
Jack - naw
Long Con - shrug
Mac - naw
nutella - no
Rej - naw
sprityo - sure

POE, in order of suspicion (least to most):

Long Con
Creature
sprityo
Epignosis

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, Epi is worse than "somewhat" suspicious. He look bad.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I read the Sprityo interactive and I consider that a net positive. Barely.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I read the Sprityo interactive and I consider that a net positive. Barely.

Whaddya view as the best part for sprityo?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Gj figuring out me, Mac, Nutella and Drago are town and Epi is somewhat suspicious and LC has no posts.

Also another note for your future games:

This attitude loses to deepwolves.

[Dragomir]

Oh shit we have night talk. Anyway, it's hard not to think of Jay as a top suspect for TSP's buddies. I also got Jack on this list. Honestly kinda favoring him right now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Oh shit we have night talk. Anyway, it's hard not to think of Jay as a top suspect for TSP's buddies. I also got Jack on this list. Honestly kinda favoring him right now.

Lemme know what you think of the interactions I reviewed when you can look over them.

[Epignosis]

Cliffs for Tony teammate compatibility:

Creature - meh
Dragomir - no
Epignosis - yikes
Jack - naw
Long Con - shrug
Mac - naw
nutella - no
Rej - naw
sprityo - sure

POE, in order of suspicion (least to most):

Long Con
Creature
sprityo
Epignosis

I've not read anything since last night, but I see this. If my lynch is necessary to move things along, I'm not going to object. So be it. Reading shit on the Internet is the last thing I feel like doing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I've not read anything since last night, but I see this. If my lynch is necessary to move things along, I'm not going to object. So be it. Reading shit on the Internet is the last thing I feel like doing.

I know the feeling.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Gj figuring out me, Mac, Nutella and Drago are town and Epi is somewhat suspicious and LC has no posts.

Also another note for your future games:

This attitude loses to deepwolves.

Maybe my gut is just really good.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I feel like I’m playing an amazing game and a wolf is trying to critique it and it’s a real funny feeling.

[Dragomir]

I am not going to defend myself at all against the token accusations sure to flood in.

You tried to lynch Rej!

You moved your vote to Tony for credit when it was late!

Like, that’s ordinary shit. People will suspect it. That’s what civilians do, whatever. This is all you get:

Ask yourself if that’s how you handle business as a teammate Tony is the most likely lynch in a tiny game of 11.

If you think I did that, then lol okay. Sure. I hope you’ll (the general you) use this night phase for greater investigative effort and depth than just that.

I’m going to find Tony’s team. Fuck the rest.

This man is town. I swear it on my life. Also, I don't think that ordinary shit is just stuff civs jump on. I find think mafia are more prone to jump on it for you know, mislynch, town cred, fake contributing etc. It's a prime opportunity for them and I think of mafia as opportunists.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I feel like I’m playing an amazing game and a wolf is trying to critique it and it’s a real funny feeling.

Rest assured I won't play head ball coach when I am a bad guy.

If you're a civilian I definitely think you're having a strong game, and you should be proud of it. You've said on a few occasions though that you're better in the mafia alignment and seem to want to improve. Papa Jay just has a few pointers.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I read the Sprityo interactive and I consider that a net positive. Barely.

Whaddya view as the best part for sprityo?

The part where wolf Sprityo probably doesn’t say “fuck consensus” and dip as his partner gets strung up.

[Dragomir]

We can still talk during night? Damn.

TSP was eaten. They was JJJ desperately tried to strenghten my wagon makes me think JJJ is the next one.

Also epi gave me vibes of him giving up to form any other wagon.

I am busy at the mobile tho.

Has anyone an overview of the votes moved?

@epignosis what do you think about JJJ?

Mafia probably has a PR left. A theory:
We already had a wagon on the PR and TSP tried to move the vote away from the PR.

Just some thoughts I would like to mention.

I like your theory. It makes the most sense in my eyes. I understand mafia would be small in numbers but I don't see them trying to save a buddy that's only vanilla.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This man is town. I swear it on my life. Also, I don't think that ordinary shit is just stuff civs jump on. I find think mafia are more prone to jump on it for you know, mislynch, town cred, fake contributing etc. It's a prime opportunity for them and I think of mafia as opportunists.

I don't doubt mafia would love to heap onto my bad vibes. It has happened before.

I've also noted a tendency though for mafia members to defend me when I am in one of these games where I am getting hounded by every-damned-body. It's classic TMI.

Whether those have happened in this game I cannot really say to this point. Epignosis has done the "I don't lynch Jay on Day 1" thing as a bad guy before. sprityo trusts me for some reason. Could be.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I read the Sprityo interactive and I consider that a net positive. Barely.

Whaddya view as the best part for sprityo?

The part where wolf Sprityo probably doesn’t say “fuck consensus” and dip as his partner gets strung up.

Could be. How do you view sprityo relative to other POE people i.e. Creature/Long Con?

[Dragomir]

@nutella
@MacDougall
@Dragomir
@Rej

Who was wolfin with Tony and why is the answer JaggedJimmyJay?

But the answer is not Jay. The amount of effort he put into reading Tony was incredible. Went back to read 2 games to get a good idea of Tony's meta against him. That is honestly just too much for a mafia to go out of there way to town read their buddy. Most if not all mafia just try to find reasons in the thread to support the town read on their buddy. Half of those reads are pretty half-assed and disingenuous. Jay's reasons for Tony don't strike me like that.

[Dragomir]

This man is town. I swear it on my life. Also, I don't think that ordinary shit is just stuff civs jump on. I find think mafia are more prone to jump on it for you know, mislynch, town cred, fake contributing etc. It's a prime opportunity for them and I think of mafia as opportunists.

I don't doubt mafia would love to heap onto my bad vibes. It has happened before.

I've also noted a tendency though for mafia members to defend me when I am in one of these games where I am getting hounded by every-damned-body. It's classic TMI.

Whether those have happened in this game I cannot really say to this point. Epignosis has done the "I don't lynch Jay on Day 1" thing as a bad guy before. sprityo trusts me for some reason. Could be.

Do you see a Creature and TSP scum combo?

[Dragomir]

@nutella
@MacDougall
@Dragomir
@Rej

Who was wolfin with Tony and why is the answer JaggedJimmyJay?

I am with you, especially because it is easy to give townreads out to you and Dragomir for establishing the wagon on Tony. And suddenly his strongest townreads are you and Drago. LMAO.

You realize that Jack and I have been his strongest town reads throughout the entire game? Ever since D1, hell D0 started.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do you see a Creature and TSP scum combo?

I view it as a possibility, though it's not my top suspicion right now (Epignosis).

Interactive review of Creature and Tony

[Jackofhearts2005]

I read the Sprityo interactive and I consider that a net positive. Barely.

Whaddya view as the best part for sprityo?

The part where wolf Sprityo probably doesn’t say “fuck consensus” and dip as his partner gets strung up.

Could be. How do you view sprityo relative to other POE people i.e. Creature/Long Con?

My lynch agenda is like Jay->Epi->Creature->Long Con->Sprityo.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My lynch agenda is like Jay->Epi->Creature->Long Con->Sprityo.

Cool beans. I could be sold on Creature being worse than sprityo.

[Dragomir]

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] I read your TSP and Creature interaction analysis(not all of it) and something caught me. In Tony's list of reads, he listed Rej as slight town. What did I say D0 about Mafia and their reads? They don't have the balls to put their buddy high up in town reads or deep in scum reads(unless bussing). If Rej had immense town cred, they would but Rej doesn't. Slight town is the sweet spot, slight scum is also one but I'm looking more at Rej than I am at Nutella ngl.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JaggedJimmyJay I read your TSP and Creature interaction analysis(not all of it) and something caught me. In Tony's list of reads, he listed Rej as slight town. What did I say D0 about Mafia and their reads? They don't have the balls to put their buddy high up in town reads or deep in scum reads(unless bussing). If Rej had immense town cred, they would but Rej doesn't. Slight town is the sweet spot, slight scum is also one but I'm looking more at Rej than I am at Nutella ngl.

It's a valid assertion. Mafia often do place their teammates in the middling areas of reads lists; it's one of the most classic mistakes there is.

I tend to view both Rej and nutella in a better light. The interactive reviews indicate why.

[Dragomir]

The town core of most mafia reads are townies because TMI(unless their buddy has immense town cred). They give the concrete town reads to townies and the hesitant or slight leans to their buddies. Tell me I'm wrong.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[mention]Dragomir[/mention]

This doesn’t look like a potential Tony teammate?

One base note: If the general premise that greater reads motion within a broader space of maneuverability is to be viewed as a sign of civilianhood, then I am encouraged that Dragomir emerges from this exercise as the one best suiting that idea. He has been all over the place by comparison to the others I reviewed, and he is also my strongest civilian read. Should he turn up mafia then oh golly, but I am encouraged right now.

One thing that drove me toward this effort was an expectation that Tony would not perform well. As it turns out, I think he's actually been more fluid than most players in this game. That may then serve as another point to his credit. He hasn't entirely sat on his initial reads as I had kind of expected based upon my general perception of his reads before the effort.

Some of these which might look bad by the numbers should be assessed for player and personality too. Epignosis's reads are highly static. I kinda figure they tend to be that way in most of his games. This isn't a reason to give him civilian credit, but it is a caution against allowing it to serve as a sole inspiration for pitchforks. Likewise with sprityo, there's no reason to expect reads fluidity when he has barely made any of them in the first place. I recommend reading both of these players on other bases.

Rej has been highly static in his reads, and even when there was some motion I struggled to follow it. He emerges as the worst look I think. Mac is also pretty rigid in his game theory -- there's not much motion in his play. I tend to expect more of that from him. Not my favorite thing.

I'm going to continue thinking things over. I have to drive home though which will take me 2+ hours. I should be back for the EOD period if there are no traffic problems. Keep the thread working while I am away please. Feedback is always welcome here too.

I think Tony's gripes with Rej here are valid.

Tony is talking while he's on the chopping block. He isn't frantic. He doesn't strike me as someone angling for opportunity. He's just answering questions as they come and saying his piece.

Rej is not talking while he's on the chopping block. He's frozen.

Tony is talking while he's on the chopping block. He isn't frantic. He doesn't strike me as someone angling for opportunity. He's just answering questions as they come and saying his piece.

Rej is not talking while he's on the chopping block. He's frozen.

He’s posting memes, dare jokes and trying to push a Rej lynch...

What is Rej doing other than let you defend him?

Jackofhearts2005 answer the question.

What is Rej doing right now other than allow you to defend him?

That’s not the criteria for lynching someone.

Fire Emblem

Late Day 1

nutella is on the chopping block. I am defending her. I realize she is letting me do that without interfering. She's bad.

Don’t listen to you D1. Got it.

You're a better civilian than this and I hope you grow from it.

Convince me Tony is town.

Also Epi is like “Tony is a civ” but he isn’t doing anything about it. If Tony is a civ, that’s a problem.

I cannot convince you of something that I am not convinced of myself. Tony is a suspect. Rej is a suspect. Between the two I see one guy interacting with the game and the other sitting on his ass while you white knight him. I don't like that and I am trying to understand why you don't care.

nutella is also saying exactly nothing right now when it matters most.

Then the moment Rej votes Tony, Jay starts to scumread him.

Tony's explanation for Mac's vote and his read on Mac don't mesh well. The former implies town and the latter is mafia.

I don't have a good reason to say don't lynch Tony. He's having fun on the way out and that's easier to understand for a caught mafioso than a mislynched civilian.

sure [VOTE: Tony] aubergine

When "can we please have legacy" results in lolcat gifs, I feel pretty good.

Garbo.

[Dragomir]

@Dragomir

This doesn’t look like a potential Tony teammate?

One base note: If the general premise that greater reads motion within a broader space of maneuverability is to be viewed as a sign of civilianhood, then I am encouraged that Dragomir emerges from this exercise as the one best suiting that idea. He has been all over the place by comparison to the others I reviewed, and he is also my strongest civilian read. Should he turn up mafia then oh golly, but I am encouraged right now.

One thing that drove me toward this effort was an expectation that Tony would not perform well. As it turns out, I think he's actually been more fluid than most players in this game. That may then serve as another point to his credit. He hasn't entirely sat on his initial reads as I had kind of expected based upon my general perception of his reads before the effort.

Some of these which might look bad by the numbers should be assessed for player and personality too. Epignosis's reads are highly static. I kinda figure they tend to be that way in most of his games. This isn't a reason to give him civilian credit, but it is a caution against allowing it to serve as a sole inspiration for pitchforks. Likewise with sprityo, there's no reason to expect reads fluidity when he has barely made any of them in the first place. I recommend reading both of these players on other bases.

Rej has been highly static in his reads, and even when there was some motion I struggled to follow it. He emerges as the worst look I think. Mac is also pretty rigid in his game theory -- there's not much motion in his play. I tend to expect more of that from him. Not my favorite thing.

I'm going to continue thinking things over. I have to drive home though which will take me 2+ hours. I should be back for the EOD period if there are no traffic problems. Keep the thread working while I am away please. Feedback is always welcome here too.

I think Tony's gripes with Rej here are valid.

Tony is talking while he's on the chopping block. He isn't frantic. He doesn't strike me as someone angling for opportunity. He's just answering questions as they come and saying his piece.

Rej is not talking while he's on the chopping block. He's frozen.

Tony is talking while he's on the chopping block. He isn't frantic. He doesn't strike me as someone angling for opportunity. He's just answering questions as they come and saying his piece.

Rej is not talking while he's on the chopping block. He's frozen.

He’s posting memes, dare jokes and trying to push a Rej lynch...

What is Rej doing other than let you defend him?

Jackofhearts2005 answer the question.

What is Rej doing right now other than allow you to defend him?

That’s not the criteria for lynching someone.

Fire Emblem

Late Day 1

nutella is on the chopping block. I am defending her. I realize she is letting me do that without interfering. She's bad.

Don’t listen to you D1. Got it.

You're a better civilian than this and I hope you grow from it.

Convince me Tony is town.

Also Epi is like “Tony is a civ” but he isn’t doing anything about it. If Tony is a civ, that’s a problem.

I cannot convince you of something that I am not convinced of myself. Tony is a suspect. Rej is a suspect. Between the two I see one guy interacting with the game and the other sitting on his ass while you white knight him. I don't like that and I am trying to understand why you don't care.

nutella is also saying exactly nothing right now when it matters most.

Then the moment Rej votes Tony, Jay starts to scumread him.

Tony's explanation for Mac's vote and his read on Mac don't mesh well. The former implies town and the latter is mafia.

I don't have a good reason to say don't lynch Tony. He's having fun on the way out and that's easier to understand for a caught mafioso than a mislynched civilian.

sure [VOTE: Tony] aubergine

When "can we please have legacy" results in lolcat gifs, I feel pretty good.

Garbo.

I mean, he's a potential one but I don't see him as one.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The town core of most mafia reads are townies because TMI(unless their buddy has immense town cred). They give the concrete town reads to townies and the hesitant or slight leans to their buddies. Tell me I'm wrong.

The highlighted bit is the whole deal, innit? When Tony provided a town core of Mac, Jack, and yourself, he left us to answer that question: are any of those three teammates for whom he built off of their strong civilian credit?

My immediate inclination is that the answer is no. If any of them is a bad guy, I probably end up at Mac first.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention], if the Jack bus is something you believe in, it'd be swell if you could describe it in more detail (even if you're citing the same posts I cited).

[Dragomir]

It's also likely that instead of mafia jumping straight from the gun, they'll follow through and simply support the scum Jay read. Letting a townie be the heavyweight. It's similar to what Rej is doing here.

This post right here:

I am with you, especially because it is easy to give townreads out to you and Dragomir for establishing the wagon on Tony. And suddenly his strongest townreads are you and Drago. LMAO.

Makes me think this.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I feel like I don’t have anything to do cause if Jay is town, the real wolf (I’m assuming 2 wolves) is just being quiet. :-/

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don’t feel like I established the wagon on Tony in any meaningful way.

I was on the wagon. You could argue my vote made him more likely to be lynched. But I didn’t establish it.

That is a weird look for Rej and Rej is probably the last confident of my towncore reads. He’s still in the towncore.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's not Rej's best moment. I was seeing civilian on Jack and Dragomir in the Stone Age.

LMAO.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am always open to hearing concerns about people I have outside my POE (Dragomir, Mac, Jack, nutella, Rej). It would be helpful though if anyone who suspects one or more of them could look at my interactive analyses and share your points of disagreement -- that is at present the greatest inspiration for my reading them as civilians.

[Dragomir]

I won't be of much him right now as I got a shitload of homework to do which are all due tomorrow. As of right now, here's my rainbow.

Jay
Epi
Nutella
Sprityo
Long Con
MacDougall

Creature
Jack
Rej

[nutella]

Why is epi green tho

[Dragomir]

Why is epi green tho

Tone read.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I won't be of much him right now as I got a shitload of homework to do which are all due tomorrow. As of right now, here's my rainbow.

Jay
Epi
Nutella
Sprityo
Long Con
MacDougall

Creature
Jack
Rej

Why are your top town reads the guys trying to save a wolf yesterday and your top scumread was his counterwagon?

[Dragomir]

I won't be of much him right now as I got a shitload of homework to do which are all due tomorrow. As of right now, here's my rainbow.

Jay
Epi
Nutella
Sprityo
Long Con
MacDougall

Creature
Jack
Rej

Why are your top town reads the guys trying to save a wolf yesterday and your top scumread was his counterwagon?

Because muh reads.