Arrowverse Mafia - Day 8

[Ultra]

Eh alright

[nutella]

Civilians must vote to keep their heels on the throat of mafia. Any plan that recommends civilians do not vote is suspect to me.

Strawmanning my proposition. Scummy.

No. He's stating something that is more or less taken for granted on this site. What's going on here is culture clash, but it's not scummy.

Two potential problems with your plan that are more specific than just general cultural aversion:
(1) DF didn't specify this but in many games on this site players are really not supposed to miss the vote and can be admonished/modkilled/replaced for not voting because it's viewed as a "participation score" and again this is a cultural thing but even if it's not in the rules by the host, it's viewed as poor play and not pro-town because, again, we value the lynch poll as the main tool of the town faction to win the game.
(2) This isn't necessarily clear in the role description but I'd guess that Felicity's role is restricted to the night phase and would not have had a chance to get a peek by day 1. I could be wrong about this though.

[Ultra]

Civilians must vote to keep their heels on the throat of mafia. Any plan that recommends civilians do not vote is suspect to me.

Strawmanning my proposition. Scummy.

No. He's stating something that is more or less taken for granted on this site. What's going on here is culture clash, but it's not scummy.

Two potential problems with your plan that are more specific than just general cultural aversion:
(1) DF didn't specify this but in many games on this site players are really not supposed to miss the vote and can be admonished/modkilled/replaced for not voting because it's viewed as a "participation score" and again this is a cultural thing but even if it's not in the rules by the host, it's viewed as poor play and not pro-town because, again, we value the lynch poll as the main tool of the town faction to win the game.
(2) This isn't necessarily clear in the role description but I'd guess that Felicity's role is restricted to the night phase and would not have had a chance to get a peek by day 1. I could be wrong about this though.

I said it was a strawman because I was not suggesting the entire town abstain D1, but I guess I didn't make that very clear

[Sloonei]

Let's decide whether or not a thing is pingworthy, gang.

@Ultra what does your scum hunting look like? What types of games are you used to playing, mechanics/setup-wise? What kind of pizza did you get earlier?

This is, like, the opposite of what I saw last game.

Also hi guys

What did you see last game?

Ultra has hesitant to interact with the thread, which is why I voted him D1. He spoke mostly to Nova, who was answering whatever was thrown his way. Some weird dependent thing.

This game, Ultra has already made a hot take and claimed that he's going to flex on the thread (not hesitant), and you're buzzing him with questions as if he needs the help. (Where Nova was just whatever about it)

Enough for an early townread on Ultra. Not sure what to think of all your questions yet. Feels kinda like fluff, but it's also something you do with new players.

The highlighted portion feels tacked on and arbitrary. Speedchuck has shared a straightforward read about Ultra when prompted. He then adds a nothing read on Sloonei which acknowledges that he is observing Regular Sloonei Behavior, but quibbles over it anyway. Why does this non-read on Sloonei exist?

[nutella]

Now if the host comes out and says something like that is a no go, that's one thing. Though as a host myself, I feel like that's a gray area.

But if we can do it I don't see why it wouldn't work. The buy in would be "if you stick to the plan town benefits", so if you're not in you're automatically suspect. Then we proceed to get a D1 lynch of any role we want to.

I am not the host but based on my years of experience on this site, I think that your proposal would be considered a violation.

As for my strategic objection: I think that the most important weapon a civilian has is their vote. A plan which involves have everybody abstain from voting on Day 1 is essentially waving the white flag on Day 1. Mafia get to kill somebody before we've tried to lynch them, and the activity that would normally take place on Day 1 is delayed until Day 2.

The plan would only have everyone abstain until the felicia player casts their first vote. Not sustain for the entire day. We would get a D1 scum lynch. Sorry if that was not clear.

......even with all the other problems, this would never work. You just expect to assume the first player to vote is that role? Not a random scum voting for a town to get everyone to pile their votes on and go on their merry way?

I feel like you just didn't even think that through

[nutella]

Civilians must vote to keep their heels on the throat of mafia. Any plan that recommends civilians do not vote is suspect to me.

I would speculate that Ultra probably just comes from a community that's more accustomed to roleclaiming and mechanical hijinks than we are. He's thinking outside the box and, like speedchuck said before me, he's being very proactive and throwing himself into the thick of things right off the bat here, which contrasts with his Scrimmage entry.

I think he's town. He's just looking at the game from a different vantage point than the Syndicate is used to.

Yeah, this. I think it's an incredibly bad idea but I don't think he's suspicious, just comes from a different way of thinking.

[Epignosis]

Let's decide whether or not a thing is pingworthy, gang.

@Ultra what does your scum hunting look like? What types of games are you used to playing, mechanics/setup-wise? What kind of pizza did you get earlier?

This is, like, the opposite of what I saw last game.

Also hi guys

What did you see last game?

Ultra has hesitant to interact with the thread, which is why I voted him D1. He spoke mostly to Nova, who was answering whatever was thrown his way. Some weird dependent thing.

This game, Ultra has already made a hot take and claimed that he's going to flex on the thread (not hesitant), and you're buzzing him with questions as if he needs the help. (Where Nova was just whatever about it)

Enough for an early townread on Ultra. Not sure what to think of all your questions yet. Feels kinda like fluff, but it's also something you do with new players.

The highlighted portion feels tacked on and arbitrary. Speedchuck has shared a straightforward read about Ultra when prompted. He then adds a nothing read on Sloonei which acknowledges that he is observing Regular Sloonei Behavior, but quibbles over it anyway. Why does this non-read on Sloonei exist?

Because he's bad. Probably. Let's hang him. Maybe.

[nutella]

I don't suspect Ultra. Bottom line.

I suspect Matahari.

Eh?

[Epignosis]

I don't suspect Ultra. Bottom line.

I suspect Matahari.

Eh?

Do you...object to me suspecting Matahari?

Or do you object to me not suspecting Ultra?

[Ultra]

Now if the host comes out and says something like that is a no go, that's one thing. Though as a host myself, I feel like that's a gray area.

But if we can do it I don't see why it wouldn't work. The buy in would be "if you stick to the plan town benefits", so if you're not in you're automatically suspect. Then we proceed to get a D1 lynch of any role we want to.

I am not the host but based on my years of experience on this site, I think that your proposal would be considered a violation.

As for my strategic objection: I think that the most important weapon a civilian has is their vote. A plan which involves have everybody abstain from voting on Day 1 is essentially waving the white flag on Day 1. Mafia get to kill somebody before we've tried to lynch them, and the activity that would normally take place on Day 1 is delayed until Day 2.

The plan would only have everyone abstain until the felicia player casts their first vote. Not sustain for the entire day. We would get a D1 scum lynch. Sorry if that was not clear.

......even with all the other problems, this would never work. You just expect to assume the first player to vote is that role? Not a random scum voting for a town to get everyone to pile their votes on and go on their merry way?

I feel like you just didn't even think that through

Uh, no.

It would be just like a cop vs cop fake claim scenario. If scum wants to fake claim, they get contested by the felicia player. We know one of them is scum, and one of them is felicia. We could lynch between the two and in fact, if the peeked scum is different than the fake claiming scum (likely), that's two right there.

I thought it through very well thank you very much

[Epignosis]

Now if the host comes out and says something like that is a no go, that's one thing. Though as a host myself, I feel like that's a gray area.

But if we can do it I don't see why it wouldn't work. The buy in would be "if you stick to the plan town benefits", so if you're not in you're automatically suspect. Then we proceed to get a D1 lynch of any role we want to.

I am not the host but based on my years of experience on this site, I think that your proposal would be considered a violation.

As for my strategic objection: I think that the most important weapon a civilian has is their vote. A plan which involves have everybody abstain from voting on Day 1 is essentially waving the white flag on Day 1. Mafia get to kill somebody before we've tried to lynch them, and the activity that would normally take place on Day 1 is delayed until Day 2.

The plan would only have everyone abstain until the felicia player casts their first vote. Not sustain for the entire day. We would get a D1 scum lynch. Sorry if that was not clear.

......even with all the other problems, this would never work. You just expect to assume the first player to vote is that role? Not a random scum voting for a town to get everyone to pile their votes on and go on their merry way?

I feel like you just didn't even think that through

Uh, no.

It would be just like a cop vs cop fake claim scenario. If scum wants to fake claim, they get contested by the felicia player. We know one of them is scum, and one of them is felicia. We could lynch between the two and in fact, if the peeked scum is different than the fake claiming scum (likely), that's two right there.

I thought it through very well thank you very much

There's no claiming in this game.

[Epignosis]

Trust me on this: If you want to hone your Mafia skills, a classic Syndicate game like this one is worth your while. No claims, no info- just stare into people's souls on the Internet.

[Ultra]

Now if the host comes out and says something like that is a no go, that's one thing. Though as a host myself, I feel like that's a gray area.

But if we can do it I don't see why it wouldn't work. The buy in would be "if you stick to the plan town benefits", so if you're not in you're automatically suspect. Then we proceed to get a D1 lynch of any role we want to.

I am not the host but based on my years of experience on this site, I think that your proposal would be considered a violation.

As for my strategic objection: I think that the most important weapon a civilian has is their vote. A plan which involves have everybody abstain from voting on Day 1 is essentially waving the white flag on Day 1. Mafia get to kill somebody before we've tried to lynch them, and the activity that would normally take place on Day 1 is delayed until Day 2.

The plan would only have everyone abstain until the felicia player casts their first vote. Not sustain for the entire day. We would get a D1 scum lynch. Sorry if that was not clear.

......even with all the other problems, this would never work. You just expect to assume the first player to vote is that role? Not a random scum voting for a town to get everyone to pile their votes on and go on their merry way?

I feel like you just didn't even think that through

Uh, no.

It would be just like a cop vs cop fake claim scenario. If scum wants to fake claim, they get contested by the felicia player. We know one of them is scum, and one of them is felicia. We could lynch between the two and in fact, if the peeked scum is different than the fake claiming scum (likely), that's two right there.

I thought it through very well thank you very much

There's no claiming in this game.

But you see-

alright, subject officially dropped

[nutella]

This is part of the reason why I'm in no hurry to read all of the roles in the setup. It's never that bit of a deal to me early on. I know my role and I know how I want to approach the game as a civilian. That's all I need to get started.

This this this

[Ultra]

Trust me on this: If you want to hone your Mafia skills, a classic Syndicate game like this one is worth your while. No claims, no info- just stare into people's souls on the Internet.

Philosophical disagreement since claiming, fake claiming, info complexity aid depth to games. I'm totally for copless games but no claim is weird for me. I'll adapt though.

[Sloonei]

This is part of the reason why I'm in no hurry to read all of the roles in the setup. It's never that bit of a deal to me early on. I know my role and I know how I want to approach the game as a civilian. That's all I need to get started.

This this this

Except for my typo

[Epignosis]

Trust me on this: If you want to hone your Mafia skills, a classic Syndicate game like this one is worth your while. No claims, no info- just stare into people's souls on the Internet.

Philosophical disagreement since claiming, fake claiming, info complexity aid depth to games. I'm totally for copless games but no claim is weird for me. I'll adapt though.

I happen to agree. Roll with it though.

[Epignosis]

I've got Ultra and Sloonei as civilians. Anybody else want to join the party?

[Ultra]

This is multiball so I'm not even going to try to town hunt except in a passive sense. It's easy for indi's to pass. It's easy for scum to pass when they're hunting other scum.

[Sloonei]

Trust me on this: If you want to hone your Mafia skills, a classic Syndicate game like this one is worth your while. No claims, no info- just stare into people's souls on the Internet.

Philosophical disagreement since claiming, fake claiming, info complexity aid depth to games. I'm totally for copless games but no claim is weird for me. I'll adapt though.

Got any impressions on particular players so far?

[Sloonei]

This is multiball so I'm not even going to try to town hunt except in a passive sense. It's easy for indi's to pass. It's easy for scum to pass when they're hunting other scum.

Spoken like a true civilian.

[Ultra]

Though, I appreciate the universal town read, and if we can find townies, it goes a long way

[Epignosis]

Though, I appreciate the universal town read, and if we can find townies, it goes a long way

Shit we just got Ultra recruited.

[nutella]

Let's decide whether or not a thing is pingworthy, gang.

@Ultra what does your scum hunting look like? What types of games are you used to playing, mechanics/setup-wise? What kind of pizza did you get earlier?

This is, like, the opposite of what I saw last game.

Also hi guys

What did you see last game?

Ultra has hesitant to interact with the thread, which is why I voted him D1. He spoke mostly to Nova, who was answering whatever was thrown his way. Some weird dependent thing.

This game, Ultra has already made a hot take and claimed that he's going to flex on the thread (not hesitant), and you're buzzing him with questions as if he needs the help. (Where Nova was just whatever about it)

Enough for an early townread on Ultra. Not sure what to think of all your questions yet. Feels kinda like fluff, but it's also something you do with new players.

The highlighted portion feels tacked on and arbitrary. Speedchuck has shared a straightforward read about Ultra when prompted. He then adds a nothing read on Sloonei which acknowledges that he is observing Regular Sloonei Behavior, but quibbles over it anyway. Why does this non-read on Sloonei exist?

Why not?

Why does this non-read on speedchuck exist?

Why does anything exist?

[nutella]

I don't suspect Ultra. Bottom line.

I suspect Matahari.

Eh?

Do you...object to me suspecting Matahari?

Or do you object to me not suspecting Ultra?

No I'm wondering why you brought up Matahari. I'm not objecting, just kind of perplexed and wanting elaboration.

[Ultra]

Though, I appreciate the universal town read, and if we can find townies, it goes a long way

Shit we just got Ultra recruited.

Shit. Maybe I should start scumming ahead of time in anticipation.

[Epignosis]

I don't suspect Ultra. Bottom line.

I suspect Matahari.

Eh?

Do you...object to me suspecting Matahari?

Or do you object to me not suspecting Ultra?

No I'm wondering why you brought up Matahari. I'm not objecting, just kind of perplexed and wanting elaboration.

I can suspect anyone I like. I'm eccentric.

[nutella]

Now if the host comes out and says something like that is a no go, that's one thing. Though as a host myself, I feel like that's a gray area.

But if we can do it I don't see why it wouldn't work. The buy in would be "if you stick to the plan town benefits", so if you're not in you're automatically suspect. Then we proceed to get a D1 lynch of any role we want to.

I am not the host but based on my years of experience on this site, I think that your proposal would be considered a violation.

As for my strategic objection: I think that the most important weapon a civilian has is their vote. A plan which involves have everybody abstain from voting on Day 1 is essentially waving the white flag on Day 1. Mafia get to kill somebody before we've tried to lynch them, and the activity that would normally take place on Day 1 is delayed until Day 2.

The plan would only have everyone abstain until the felicia player casts their first vote. Not sustain for the entire day. We would get a D1 scum lynch. Sorry if that was not clear.

......even with all the other problems, this would never work. You just expect to assume the first player to vote is that role? Not a random scum voting for a town to get everyone to pile their votes on and go on their merry way?

I feel like you just didn't even think that through

Uh, no.

It would be just like a cop vs cop fake claim scenario. If scum wants to fake claim, they get contested by the felicia player. We know one of them is scum, and one of them is felicia. We could lynch between the two and in fact, if the peeked scum is different than the fake claiming scum (likely), that's two right there.

I thought it through very well thank you very much

Right, ok, whatever. But claiming's not allowed so that wouldn't work either (except that we'd eventually find out it was a mislynch)

[Epignosis]

Though, I appreciate the universal town read, and if we can find townies, it goes a long way

Shit we just got Ultra recruited.

Shit. Maybe I should start scumming ahead of time in anticipation.

Rip has an incentive to recruit bad people though.

[nutella]

But you see-

alright, subject officially dropped

...k sorry I'll stop I'm responding before reading the rest of the recent posts

[nutella]

Trust me on this: If you want to hone your Mafia skills, a classic Syndicate game like this one is worth your while. No claims, no info- just stare into people's souls on the Internet.

Yeah -- I sometimes get the sense that players on sites with more of a focus on mechanical deduction via claims are playing a very different game.

[Ultra]

On that note I still strongly recommend that felicity targets rip hunter and try and hint/breadcrumb as much as they can in the confines of the rules.

Anyone disagree?

[Sloonei]

Let's decide whether or not a thing is pingworthy, gang.

@Ultra what does your scum hunting look like? What types of games are you used to playing, mechanics/setup-wise? What kind of pizza did you get earlier?

This is, like, the opposite of what I saw last game.

Also hi guys

What did you see last game?

Ultra has hesitant to interact with the thread, which is why I voted him D1. He spoke mostly to Nova, who was answering whatever was thrown his way. Some weird dependent thing.

This game, Ultra has already made a hot take and claimed that he's going to flex on the thread (not hesitant), and you're buzzing him with questions as if he needs the help. (Where Nova was just whatever about it)

Enough for an early townread on Ultra. Not sure what to think of all your questions yet. Feels kinda like fluff, but it's also something you do with new players.

The highlighted portion feels tacked on and arbitrary. Speedchuck has shared a straightforward read about Ultra when prompted. He then adds a nothing read on Sloonei which acknowledges that he is observing Regular Sloonei Behavior, but quibbles over it anyway. Why does this non-read on Sloonei exist?

Why not?

Why does this non-read on speedchuck exist?

Why does anything exist?

I have substantiated a gripe that I have with a Speedchuck post on Day 0. It exists to bolster the conversation in the thread.

Speedchuck gave an indecisive wave of the hand. I'd like him to tell us what it means, and I'd like other people to comment on it.

Why does your response exist?

[Epignosis]

On that note I still strongly recommend that felicity targets rip hunter and try and hint/breadcrumb as much as they can in the confines of the rules.

Anyone disagree?

Yes.

[Sloonei]

On that note I still strongly recommend that felicity targets rip hunter and try and hint/breadcrumb as much as they can in the confines of the rules.

Anyone disagree?

I do not object to this recommendation, but I take it as only that: a recommendation.

[Ultra]

On that note I still strongly recommend that felicity targets rip hunter and try and hint/breadcrumb as much as they can in the confines of the rules.

Anyone disagree?

Yes.

I'd like some host clarification on whether Rip can recruit baddies, I assumed not given flavor and balance

[mention]DFaraday[/mention]

[nutella]

I have substantiated a gripe that I have with a Speedchuck post on Day 0. It exists to bolster the conversation in the thread.

Speedchuck gave an indecisive wave of the hand. I'd like him to tell us what it means, and I'd like other people to comment on it.

Why does your response exist?

I don't feel strongly about it either way. It's something I can easily imagine myself saying as well, as a general impulse to sort out what I'm thinking about people who have been active in the thread so far.

[Sloonei]

I have substantiated a gripe that I have with a Speedchuck post on Day 0. It exists to bolster the conversation in the thread.

Speedchuck gave an indecisive wave of the hand. I'd like him to tell us what it means, and I'd like other people to comment on it.

Why does your response exist?

I don't feel strongly about it either way. It's something I can easily imagine myself saying as well, as a general impulse to sort out what I'm thinking about people who have been active in the thread so far.

What is your read on the player called Sloonei so far?

[Ultra]

Let's decide whether or not a thing is pingworthy, gang.

@Ultra what does your scum hunting look like? What types of games are you used to playing, mechanics/setup-wise? What kind of pizza did you get earlier?

This is, like, the opposite of what I saw last game.

Also hi guys

What did you see last game?

Ultra has hesitant to interact with the thread, which is why I voted him D1. He spoke mostly to Nova, who was answering whatever was thrown his way. Some weird dependent thing.

This game, Ultra has already made a hot take and claimed that he's going to flex on the thread (not hesitant), and you're buzzing him with questions as if he needs the help. (Where Nova was just whatever about it)

Enough for an early townread on Ultra. Not sure what to think of all your questions yet. Feels kinda like fluff, but it's also something you do with new players.

The highlighted portion feels tacked on and arbitrary. Speedchuck has shared a straightforward read about Ultra when prompted. He then adds a nothing read on Sloonei which acknowledges that he is observing Regular Sloonei Behavior, but quibbles over it anyway. Why does this non-read on Sloonei exist?

Why not?

Why does this non-read on speedchuck exist?

Why does anything exist?

I have substantiated a gripe that I have with a Speedchuck post on Day 0. It exists to bolster the conversation in the thread.

Speedchuck gave an indecisive wave of the hand. I'd like him to tell us what it means, and I'd like other people to comment on it.

Why does your response exist?

Your behavior might be meta consistent but that's independent of how it looks on the surface. It feels like he was weighing between the two rather than giving a hedgy read.

[nutella]

I have substantiated a gripe that I have with a Speedchuck post on Day 0. It exists to bolster the conversation in the thread.

Speedchuck gave an indecisive wave of the hand. I'd like him to tell us what it means, and I'd like other people to comment on it.

Why does your response exist?

I don't feel strongly about it either way. It's something I can easily imagine myself saying as well, as a general impulse to sort out what I'm thinking about people who have been active in the thread so far.

What is your read on the player called Sloonei so far?

The usual General town read while keeping the roll of foil within reach if needed.

[Epignosis]

Ultra, my concern with you remains: You are fixated on Rip. There are five mafia to lynch. Rip does nothing until Night 2. Are the five killers not a concern to you? If they are, why are you not about sorting who they may be?

[Sloonei]

[mention]Ultra[/mention]

Trust me on this: If you want to hone your Mafia skills, a classic Syndicate game like this one is worth your while. No claims, no info- just stare into people's souls on the Internet.

Philosophical disagreement since claiming, fake claiming, info complexity aid depth to games. I'm totally for copless games but no claim is weird for me. I'll adapt though.

Got any impressions on particular players so far?

[Ultra]

Hot take

Felicity player should use her one shot on Rip Hunter to prevent Cult Shenanigans

at first glance cult looks pretty harmless early game, in my personal opinion it should be spent on someone like deathstroke, it brings down the average kpn from 2.5 (i assume) down to 1.5

i dont see any posts of ultra that would let me make a read as they are all pregame fluff which happens or strategic thinking which comes from both alignments

Wonder if there's any intention peeking through here.

Yeah Deathstroke does kill every night, and as SK he's problematic.

But in the immediate sense he's a much bigger problem for the scum teams

[Ultra]

Ultra, my concern with you remains: You are fixated on Rip. There are five mafia to lynch. Rip does nothing until Night 2. Are the five killers not a concern to you? If they are, why are you not about sorting who they may be?

I can't emphasize enough how much I'm triggered by cults. I already admitted it isn't an entirely balance concern for me so much as that I feel like, between the 8 starting scum and potential for recruitment, we can easily get very close to a minority town situation while the game continues, and at that point, it's somewhat unenjoyable to play.

I only appear fixated because we have one super peek from felicia. So ofc I'm going to bring up the biggest priority.

The Sk is another potential target but they can absorb a lynch which is pretty annoying

[Ultra]

@Ultra

Trust me on this: If you want to hone your Mafia skills, a classic Syndicate game like this one is worth your while. No claims, no info- just stare into people's souls on the Internet.

Philosophical disagreement since claiming, fake claiming, info complexity aid depth to games. I'm totally for copless games but no claim is weird for me. I'll adapt though.

Got any impressions on particular players so far?

Just soft ones atm.

I think Epi comes off somewhat better than you do

[Matahari]

I don't suspect Ultra. Bottom line.

I suspect Matahari.

lee me lone. I’m tryna watch Shetland.

[Sloonei]

@Ultra

Trust me on this: If you want to hone your Mafia skills, a classic Syndicate game like this one is worth your while. No claims, no info- just stare into people's souls on the Internet.

Philosophical disagreement since claiming, fake claiming, info complexity aid depth to games. I'm totally for copless games but no claim is weird for me. I'll adapt though.

Got any impressions on particular players so far?

Just soft ones atm.

I think Epi comes off somewhat better than you do

Explain

[Epignosis]

Ultra, my concern with you remains: You are fixated on Rip. There are five mafia to lynch. Rip does nothing until Night 2. Are the five killers not a concern to you? If they are, why are you not about sorting who they may be?

I can't emphasize enough how much I'm triggered by cults. I already admitted it isn't an entirely balance concern for me so much as that I feel like, between the 8 starting scum and potential for recruitment, we can easily get very close to a minority town situation while the game continues, and at that point, it's somewhat unenjoyable to play.

I only appear fixated because we have one super peek from felicia. So ofc I'm going to bring up the biggest priority.

The Sk is another potential target but they can absorb a lynch which is pretty annoying

All right. I buy that.

[Ultra]

@Ultra

Trust me on this: If you want to hone your Mafia skills, a classic Syndicate game like this one is worth your while. No claims, no info- just stare into people's souls on the Internet.

Philosophical disagreement since claiming, fake claiming, info complexity aid depth to games. I'm totally for copless games but no claim is weird for me. I'll adapt though.

Got any impressions on particular players so far?

Just soft ones atm.

I think Epi comes off somewhat better than you do

Explain

nah

[Epignosis]

I'm going to bed.

I just remembered there is another workday in this godforsaken week.