Steely Dan Mafia [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So far Luna's curse posts tell me nothing about her role. They start here.

[speedchuck]

If just speed is mafia this is just opportunism. He saw Luna cursed and tried to get her lynched.

This doesn't actually make sense. I didn't ask Luna to shade me over votes. People are asking her questions and cooperating to the point where she can tell us what she means.

So far, she's accused me over votes (while still voting for JJJ I think) and clarified that it's my actual votes that look bad, not the missed votes.

[juliets]

Jay why did you curse Luna for again

We discussed it last phase with speedchuck. Luna can confirm her role via my curse, for whatever that's worth. She consented.

This makes speed look less good in this whole rationale.

I don't understand why this makes speed look less good. Luna agreed to it according to what Jay is saying.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Jay why did you curse Luna for again

We discussed it last phase with speedchuck. Luna can confirm her role via my curse, for whatever that's worth. She consented.

This makes speed look less good in this whole rationale.

I don't understand why this makes speed look less good. Luna agreed to it according to what Jay is saying.

Ok let's say Luna is a civ.

She agrees with it. Talks to Speed in BTSC.

Now the new day starts and Speed accuses her of contradicting something she said in BTSC. Is it possible this is a bad Speed leing to set up a lynch on her?

Or would be a stupid risk for a mafia Speed to do that, considering Luna might be lynched anyway?

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

[juliets]

Jay why did you curse Luna for again

We discussed it last phase with speedchuck. Luna can confirm her role via my curse, for whatever that's worth. She consented.

This makes speed look less good in this whole rationale.

I don't understand why this makes speed look less good. Luna agreed to it according to what Jay is saying.

Ok let's say Luna is a civ.

She agrees with it. Talks to Speed in BTSC.

Now the new day starts and Speed accuses her of contradicting something she said in BTSC. Is it possible this is a bad Speed leing to set up a lynch on her?

Or would be a stupid risk for a mafia Speed to do that, considering Luna might be lynched anyway?

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

I'm not sure what you mean by "talks to speed in bts". She had bts with speed Day 2 not yesterday.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

FOlks we ve the equivalent of an ability result.We should be discussing all the ramifications of it.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Jay why did you curse Luna for again

We discussed it last phase with speedchuck. Luna can confirm her role via my curse, for whatever that's worth. She consented.

This makes speed look less good in this whole rationale.

I don't understand why this makes speed look less good. Luna agreed to it according to what Jay is saying.

Ok let's say Luna is a civ.

She agrees with it. Talks to Speed in BTSC.

Now the new day starts and Speed accuses her of contradicting something she said in BTSC. Is it possible this is a bad Speed leing to set up a lynch on her?

Or would be a stupid risk for a mafia Speed to do that, considering Luna might be lynched anyway?

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

I'm not sure what you mean by "talks to speed in bts". She had bts with speed Day 2 not yesterday.

Oh?

Damn I have to think this over.

[speedchuck]

FOlks we ve the equivalent of an ability result.We should be discussing all the ramifications of it.

???

[speedchuck]

I wouldn't say it goes as far as being an ability result.

Luna specifically said she's suspecting me for votes on D1 and D5. (This may or may not be backpedaling.) Those votes have nothing to do with the bargain we struck, and thus, nothing to do with role stuff.

[dunya]

I wouldn't say it goes as far as being an ability result.

Luna specifically said she's suspecting me for votes on D1 and D5. (This may or may not be backpedaling.) Those votes have nothing to do with the bargain we struck, and thus, nothing to do with role stuff.

shitty position to be in where everyone says it's an ability result and then the person who can deny that dies, isn't it?

[dunya]

i'm confused about the whole luna x speed thing because of the angle speed brought in. this "agreement" you and her had made excluded day 5? why didn't luna talk about it during night 5?

[speedchuck]

i'm confused about the whole luna x speed thing because of the angle speed brought in. this "agreement" you and her had made excluded day 5? why didn't luna talk about it during night 5?

It only applied to the day immediately after chat. Impossible to plan much further than that.

I guess that technically means I have less excuse for my D4 missed vote, but whatever.

[speedchuck]

If Luna wants me to spill her roleclaim, this would all make a heckton more sense.

[dunya]

i was going to ask if speedchuck was targeted with Do it Again (and can't announce it for some reason) but i think he's been inviting different people at night so it isn't an explanation for the "no votes".

has anyone been targeted with Do it Again?

[dunya]

If Luna wants me to spill her roleclaim, this would all make a heckton more sense.

i'd rather you didn't unless absolutely necessary. what's the point of a closed setup if everyone's roles are out in the open? if luna is town, i think the less the mafia know about our roles the better atm, especially with like 80% of everyone role claiming. if luna is mafia, you and juliets "know" her role..

[dunya]

why is lunalee a civilian? can you give me a couple of reasons, [mention]speedchuck[/mention]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The point of a closed setup is to facilitate open role claiming.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Meh, I thought we had caught Luna slipping and we didn't.

Back to having to read pple for real.

[dunya]

The point of a closed setup is to facilitate open role claiming.

i think it gives mafia an advantage if everyone mass claims. they know who's lying and who isn't and we're left guessing if an insanification role can be a civilian in addition to a silencer. also i just think it's lame for mass claims. sorry but not sorry.

[dunya]

Meh, I thought we had caught Luna slipping and we didn't.

Back to having to read pple for real.

luna or speed?

[speedchuck]

why is lunalee a civilian? can you give me a couple of reasons, speedchuck

I have none.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Meh, I thought we had caught Luna slipping and we didn't.

Back to having to read pple for real.

luna or speed?

Luna.

But I was also suspecting some kind of set up by Speed based on the fact Luna is unable to defend herself.

[juliets]

Don't buy any argument about Mata having a result on someone. If she had she would have been morr assertive.

So DDL.

Why did Mata differentiate in percentages Elo and Dunya if she had no results? Why not just have them lumped in with the 70% or less sure. She made the point in her post that she was assessing everyone so it would have been easy to say "these people I am more sure of" and "these people I'm less sure of" instead of having two people stand out of all the rest. I am less sure of dunya because of Mata's later comment and because she has had civ posts but I feel like Elo is definitely bad.

linki: DDL, what set up by speed? Do you mean the agreement he said they had about holding votes until the end? I said it before and I'll say it again it, makes perfect sense given Luna's role that they would have agreed to that.

[dunya]

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] if you had rolled mafia with the role you claim to have, would you have role claimed?

[dunya]

Don't buy any argument about Mata having a result on someone. If she had she would have been morr assertive.

So DDL.

Why did Mata differentiate in percentages Elo and Dunya if she had no results? Why not just have them lumped in with the 70% or less sure. She made the point in her post that she was assessing everyone so it would have been easy to say "these people I am more sure of" and "these people I'm less sure of" instead of having two people stand out of all the rest. I am less sure of dunya because of Mata's later comment and because she has had civ posts but I feel like Elo is definitely bad.

perhaps you can't see it from my shoes, but what you're focusing on holds little weight with me. those numbers aren't set in stone to me because i'm town and she was attributing more force to me than eloh based on perceptions (or misconceptions in my case). her suspicions on eloh have built up gradually but she's had steady suspicions on her every since end of day 1, which is before she could have even used her role. i don't see a significant and sharp increase of her suspicions towards eloh. she is basing it all on how fake she sounded w/r/t the emotion at end of day 1. i see it completely differently.

[dunya]

Meh, I thought we had caught Luna slipping and we didn't.

Back to having to read pple for real.

luna or speed?

Luna.

But I was also suspecting some kind of set up by Speed based on the fact Luna is unable to defend herself.

your posts were saying "if speed is lying..." so i got confused. if speed is mafia, and luna is town, why would he have to set anything up himself? people were already scum reading her. he put himself in the middle and for no reason except to look bad when she flips town.

i still don't think speed is mafia.

[dunya]

i'll say it again, this mata kill stinks.

if everyone decides to lynch eloh and she flips town, i look worse.
if everyone decides to lynch me and i flip town, eloh looks worse.

whoever killed mata was paying attention yesterday.

[juliets]

Don't buy any argument about Mata having a result on someone. If she had she would have been morr assertive.

So DDL.

Why did Mata differentiate in percentages Elo and Dunya if she had no results? Why not just have them lumped in with the 70% or less sure. She made the point in her post that she was assessing everyone so it would have been easy to say "these people I am more sure of" and "these people I'm less sure of" instead of having two people stand out of all the rest. I am less sure of dunya because of Mata's later comment and because she has had civ posts but I feel like Elo is definitely bad.

perhaps you can't see it from my shoes, but what you're focusing on holds little weight with me. those numbers aren't set in stone to me because i'm town and she was attributing more force to me than eloh based on perceptions (or misconceptions in my case). her suspicions on eloh have built up gradually but she's had steady suspicions on her every since end of day 1, which is before she could have even used her role. i don't see a significant and sharp increase of her suspicions towards eloh. she is basing it all on how fake she sounded w/r/t the emotion at end of day 1. i see it completely differently.

I appreciate your thoughts, I just am having a hard time not seeing it as significant. The Mata I remember wasn't a bold player so it stands out to me. Maybe she has changed from what I remember, that's always possible. I'll re-read her Elo points from the point of view that you are good. I will say though I have been suspecting Elo before Mata's role came out so it's not a huge leap for me.

linki - I don't think you look worse if Eloh were to flip town. I'm trying to understand why you would.

[dunya]

[mention]juliets[/mention], i know it's long, but if you can skim through this and tell me if you agree/disagree with any of my points whenever you get a chance, if you feel like it, no pressure. i don't know if you have yet, and i would be interested in hearing your thoughts. i definitely trust you more than eloh this game, so let me have them.

thoughts on eloh (don't click because it's long, eloh):

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I am aware that right in the beginning Jay throws out names attached to alignments like candy. But now others are doing it too, namely dunya and nutella. Is this knew? Are they just trying to seem civ since Jay does it when he is civ? IDK.

I liked juliets' post which questioned nutella's reads, I thought that was spot on. Nutella says her posting lyrics is a challenge for herself to get into the theme of the game. How is copying and pasting lyrics from the internet a challenge? I think it is an attempt as a distractions from making reads.

I disagree with Jack and agree with Jay that daisy's reads look authentic. I am calling daisy civ for now.

?=no memorable posts
Dragon D. Luffy - ?
dunya - yellow
Elochin - GREEN
Jackofhearts2005 - yellow
JaggedJimmyJay - green
juliets - greem
Kites - yellow
leetic - ?
Long Con - ?
Lunalee - green
MacDougall - ?
Matahari - red - the post where she/he said all that she's been able to do is make some connections but isn't willing to share them
Neverwhere - ?
nijuukyugou - ?
novaselinenever - yellow
nutella - red - but I always think she is bad and that her posts seem baddie aligned
reywaS - ?
Spacedaisy - green
speedchuck - yellow

I am on page 9. But I have to use my computer for family use atm and cannot read anymore.

this might be the first time eloh has pumped out one of these so quickly and i kinda liked that she dug in. i hated the introductory part of her post and had beef with her about it. so +1 -1

nova had beef with her ddl question mark and luna green. i don't see anything wrong with her ddl question mark because i'm 5 nights into this game and i would be lying if i told you i remembered much of ddl's posts. .... i'm not kidding. i have to iso him to remember what i think of him or what he thinks of anyone. that's kinda bad. (i just know his roleclaim and how he used his role. that shit is memorable.) but before that? nothing.

luna unexplained green is a genuine gripe i guess.

Nova when prodded said that every post speedchuck has made pings him.

Who agrees with that?

Because I couldn't disagree more.

I don't think chuck has given us enough to work with or to BE pinged. I'm waiting for the meds to ware off before making a decision about him.

now i don't like this. eloh gave speed a yellow, that implies eloh was in fact pinged, but she's agreeing with mac that nothing speed has done has pinged her? @Elohcin maybe you can explain this.

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

why would town mac give dunya an easy day green pass just because she hasn't said something "scummy"? other people have found things scummy in what i've said. i don't feel you're being genuine and the sarcasm on me was lost.

i'm not even here to play my hardest civ game, so don't tell me my "civ" is shining through. explain what gave you good vibes about me or this becomes as bad as elohcin's "green" to luna that everyone took issue with imo.

“Mac’s not getting lynched today.”

This is what I'm thinking. Does baddie dunya toss votes here and there before landing on her actual choice? I find this behavior odd.

I was just giving Dunya shit for voting Mac after telling me to get over voting Daisy.

That's fine to have your own reasoning. I am just telling you what I am getting from dunya's voting. It seems like she is just placing votes willy nilly before settling on who she actually wants to vote for.

this post is interesting to me. jack needs to make a point to clarify that he isn't shading me as eloh is when she quotes his post, but giving me shit because of what i said to him (implying he was just teashing me). he doesn't want to shade me. he wanted to stay on my good side and not get into conflict. in a vacuum, this specific series of thoughts doesn't make me feel eloh and jack are teammates. i didn't notice this before. good catch, dunya.

Eloh is always wrong about me and refuses to see reason. Jay is misguided but will come around. Two of ddl, Mac, and juliets are bad and the other thinks they're clever.

What makes you so confident in two baddies among DDL, Mac, and Jules?

I'm not so confident about it, but I have some suspicion on all three of them and would be fairly surprised if none of them were bad. I'm leaning a little more town on Mac and more bad on juliets and ddl for various reasons that are unrelated to their voting for me but it does seem that I'd be a convenient bandwagon vote for scum.

Okay. I just feel like when someone makes a statement like, two of these three players are bad, it exudes confidence. Like you know it to be true. Remember, one must be careful what they claim in games. I as completely ignored in my last game for a whole phase and voted for wrongly b/c the cop made a claim against me and everyone believed them. In fact, I think you might have been that cop. I never completely hold those details b/c I have too many RL details to remember. But yeah, be careful on your claims.

this game eloh references was the Gossip Girl game i hosted. i notice some serious bitterness here. eloh witnessed people taking a claim left behind by a flipped cop nutella literally and getting her mislynched for it at lylo. this biterness and warning feels like it's coming from civ eloh warning nutella not to make the same mistake again...i dunno. could see it both ways where it's fake civ eloh giving nutella a little shake down as well. meh.

another reason you can't do this crap, JJJ, is b/c of time zones. it is very disrespectful to those across the pond. Mac may be bad, and if so....good for those voters, praise be. But if not, that poor man had no way to defend himself b/c the thread decided to change things up on him while he was asleep. this is why we have 24 hours to discuss, so that everyone can be involved WHEN THEY ARE AWAKE. Voting someone while they are asleep and not giving them time to rebuttle is horrible.

linki...okay, he was mafia. my point still stands.

and this is the post that had a defining moment in my view. there were several posts before it, but this one in particular. she linki'd with epi. the votes were probably locked in as she typed away angrily. i just cannot genuinely believe mac's teammate would react that negatively and attract that much attention to herself lol. maybe i see this differently than everyone else because of how extensively eloh and i have discussed mafia and the new mafia culture over discord and her reasons for not playing anymore (only when epi is struggling to fill up a game apparently ). i cannot believe this scolding and talking down to was from scum eloh.

i've never seen eloh react so negatively and emotionally to something like this and don't think it's typical of her in game personality. if you can prove otherwise, i'm all eyes.

i'll carry on anyway because some people might want to disregard that specific conclusion i came to.

I think LC and niju would be easy targets for mafia. Honestly, I think they are civs who just aren't paying attention to a damn thing. They are the kind of civs this game that keep civs from winning.

in hindsight, this could be tmi or could be genuine disdain at the thought of lynching an inactive. i don't really recall civ eloh's stance on lynching low-posters / inactives in general tbh. she does give some rationale about what she expects from a mafia niju so it's not all hot air. she continued to defend niju amidst the whole theories of niju having saved mac. staying consistent.

I know I fought for her in the beginning, but Luna has become one of my top suspects. She isn't acting like her civ self. Also, Kites. I don't know this person well, but his posts seem odd. Then there is Mata. I think this person could be bad. The whole building connections thing but will not tell us, that was weird. His "helpfulness" doesn't seem so helpful.

elohcin gave some reads. i wasn't hot about luna shifting from green to top suspect so quickly, but i do see she posed some questions for luna and told her she was beginning to doubt her tone before churning that out. but "top suspects" seems like a bit of a reach.

I am not sure what I think of LC now. Why would he come out and say he is 100% sure Jack is bad. If he is telling the truth and he can determine the alignment of a player as his power, then why give up his life (of course Mafia would kill him now, right?). There are still other mafia left. Wouldn't he want to be a little more vague and keep him life so he can keep playing and keep helping the civs catch baddies? Couldn't he put a little more effort in and build a case on Jack and get us to follow? I just don't know. I am confused.

what is this? lol. is this post something mafia eloh would make if she had btsc with jack? i mean, she does a lot of shady shit that i can look for mafia intentions behind and make a full blown "lynch eloh" post on, but i don't believe this. i don't feel like eloh has btsc with anyone or she wouldn't have made that post imo. i don't have time to finish her iso and this has become too long, and a chore and i gtg in a bit.

conclusion:
i am someone who's always prone to reading eloh as bad, sometimes i'm right, sometimes i'm wrong. i think this is the first game i kinda town read her and it's based on 1. that last post there. i just can't imagine she has btsc with jack and churns that out. 2. the mac emotional post. 3. that jack post i caught reading her iso where she was shading me and jack points out he was only teasing me. it was weird. just weird.

i could probably make a case for eloh being unhelpful or bad. she's not my strongest town read, but i can't ignore that i'm influenced by emotional tells and i'm not sorry about it. i think it helps direct my intuition and i don't feel she was being disingenuous or fake like i have felt her act in the past (rightly so).

[dunya]

linki - I don't think you look worse if Eloh were to flip town. I'm trying to understand why you would.

really? the whole "mata used her role and caught dunya's hand in the cookie jar" won't come out? or if i flip town, "mata used her role and caught eloh's hand in the cookie jar". it's going to happen. it's already foreshadowed in jay's analysis.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Don't buy any argument about Mata having a result on someone. If she had she would have been morr assertive.

So DDL.

Why did Mata differentiate in percentages Elo and Dunya if she had no results? Why not just have them lumped in with the 70% or less sure. She made the point in her post that she was assessing everyone so it would have been easy to say "these people I am more sure of" and "these people I'm less sure of" instead of having two people stand out of all the rest. I am less sure of dunya because of Mata's later comment and because she has had civ posts but I feel like Elo is definitely bad.

juliets if I have results on 2 mafia I'm not putting them in an ambiguous post like that, I'm making 10 posts per page in Caps Lock and bold.

And if I have only 1 result I make a better effort to differentiate Eloh and dunya.

[juliets]

juliets, i know it's long, but if you can skim through this and tell me if you agree/disagree with any of my points whenever you get a chance, if you feel like it, no pressure. i don't know if you have yet, and i would be interested in hearing your thoughts. i definitely trust you more than eloh this game, so let me have them.

thoughts on eloh (don't click because it's long, eloh):

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I am aware that right in the beginning Jay throws out names attached to alignments like candy. But now others are doing it too, namely dunya and nutella. Is this knew? Are they just trying to seem civ since Jay does it when he is civ? IDK.

I liked juliets' post which questioned nutella's reads, I thought that was spot on. Nutella says her posting lyrics is a challenge for herself to get into the theme of the game. How is copying and pasting lyrics from the internet a challenge? I think it is an attempt as a distractions from making reads.

I disagree with Jack and agree with Jay that daisy's reads look authentic. I am calling daisy civ for now.

?=no memorable posts
Dragon D. Luffy - ?
dunya - yellow
Elochin - GREEN
Jackofhearts2005 - yellow
JaggedJimmyJay - green
juliets - greem
Kites - yellow
leetic - ?
Long Con - ?
Lunalee - green
MacDougall - ?
Matahari - red - the post where she/he said all that she's been able to do is make some connections but isn't willing to share them
Neverwhere - ?
nijuukyugou - ?
novaselinenever - yellow
nutella - red - but I always think she is bad and that her posts seem baddie aligned
reywaS - ?
Spacedaisy - green
speedchuck - yellow

I am on page 9. But I have to use my computer for family use atm and cannot read anymore.

this might be the first time eloh has pumped out one of these so quickly and i kinda liked that she dug in. i hated the introductory part of her post and had beef with her about it. so +1 -1

nova had beef with her ddl question mark and luna green. i don't see anything wrong with her ddl question mark because i'm 5 nights into this game and i would be lying if i told you i remembered much of ddl's posts. .... i'm not kidding. i have to iso him to remember what i think of him or what he thinks of anyone. that's kinda bad. (i just know his roleclaim and how he used his role. that shit is memorable.) but before that? nothing.

luna unexplained green is a genuine gripe i guess.

Nova when prodded said that every post speedchuck has made pings him.

Who agrees with that?

Because I couldn't disagree more.

I don't think chuck has given us enough to work with or to BE pinged. I'm waiting for the meds to ware off before making a decision about him.

now i don't like this. eloh gave speed a yellow, that implies eloh was in fact pinged, but she's agreeing with mac that nothing speed has done has pinged her? @Elohcin maybe you can explain this.

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

why would town mac give dunya an easy day green pass just because she hasn't said something "scummy"? other people have found things scummy in what i've said. i don't feel you're being genuine and the sarcasm on me was lost.

i'm not even here to play my hardest civ game, so don't tell me my "civ" is shining through. explain what gave you good vibes about me or this becomes as bad as elohcin's "green" to luna that everyone took issue with imo.

“Mac’s not getting lynched today.”

This is what I'm thinking. Does baddie dunya toss votes here and there before landing on her actual choice? I find this behavior odd.

I was just giving Dunya shit for voting Mac after telling me to get over voting Daisy.

That's fine to have your own reasoning. I am just telling you what I am getting from dunya's voting. It seems like she is just placing votes willy nilly before settling on who she actually wants to vote for.

this post is interesting to me. jack needs to make a point to clarify that he isn't shading me as eloh is when she quotes his post, but giving me shit because of what i said to him (implying he was just teashing me). he doesn't want to shade me. he wanted to stay on my good side and not get into conflict. in a vacuum, this specific series of thoughts doesn't make me feel eloh and jack are teammates. i didn't notice this before. good catch, dunya.

Eloh is always wrong about me and refuses to see reason. Jay is misguided but will come around. Two of ddl, Mac, and juliets are bad and the other thinks they're clever.

What makes you so confident in two baddies among DDL, Mac, and Jules?

I'm not so confident about it, but I have some suspicion on all three of them and would be fairly surprised if none of them were bad. I'm leaning a little more town on Mac and more bad on juliets and ddl for various reasons that are unrelated to their voting for me but it does seem that I'd be a convenient bandwagon vote for scum.

Okay. I just feel like when someone makes a statement like, two of these three players are bad, it exudes confidence. Like you know it to be true. Remember, one must be careful what they claim in games. I as completely ignored in my last game for a whole phase and voted for wrongly b/c the cop made a claim against me and everyone believed them. In fact, I think you might have been that cop. I never completely hold those details b/c I have too many RL details to remember. But yeah, be careful on your claims.

this game eloh references was the Gossip Girl game i hosted. i notice some serious bitterness here. eloh witnessed people taking a claim left behind by a flipped cop nutella literally and getting her mislynched for it at lylo. this biterness and warning feels like it's coming from civ eloh warning nutella not to make the same mistake again...i dunno. could see it both ways where it's fake civ eloh giving nutella a little shake down as well. meh.

another reason you can't do this crap, JJJ, is b/c of time zones. it is very disrespectful to those across the pond. Mac may be bad, and if so....good for those voters, praise be. But if not, that poor man had no way to defend himself b/c the thread decided to change things up on him while he was asleep. this is why we have 24 hours to discuss, so that everyone can be involved WHEN THEY ARE AWAKE. Voting someone while they are asleep and not giving them time to rebuttle is horrible.

linki...okay, he was mafia. my point still stands.

and this is the post that had a defining moment in my view. there were several posts before it, but this one in particular. she linki'd with epi. the votes were probably locked in as she typed away angrily. i just cannot genuinely believe mac's teammate would react that negatively and attract that much attention to herself lol. maybe i see this differently than everyone else because of how extensively eloh and i have discussed mafia and the new mafia culture over discord and her reasons for not playing anymore (only when epi is struggling to fill up a game apparently ). i cannot believe this scolding and talking down to was from scum eloh.

i've never seen eloh react so negatively and emotionally to something like this and don't think it's typical of her in game personality. if you can prove otherwise, i'm all eyes.

i'll carry on anyway because some people might want to disregard that specific conclusion i came to.

I think LC and niju would be easy targets for mafia. Honestly, I think they are civs who just aren't paying attention to a damn thing. They are the kind of civs this game that keep civs from winning.

in hindsight, this could be tmi or could be genuine disdain at the thought of lynching an inactive. i don't really recall civ eloh's stance on lynching low-posters / inactives in general tbh. she does give some rationale about what she expects from a mafia niju so it's not all hot air. she continued to defend niju amidst the whole theories of niju having saved mac. staying consistent.

I know I fought for her in the beginning, but Luna has become one of my top suspects. She isn't acting like her civ self. Also, Kites. I don't know this person well, but his posts seem odd. Then there is Mata. I think this person could be bad. The whole building connections thing but will not tell us, that was weird. His "helpfulness" doesn't seem so helpful.

elohcin gave some reads. i wasn't hot about luna shifting from green to top suspect so quickly, but i do see she posed some questions for luna and told her she was beginning to doubt her tone before churning that out. but "top suspects" seems like a bit of a reach.

I am not sure what I think of LC now. Why would he come out and say he is 100% sure Jack is bad. If he is telling the truth and he can determine the alignment of a player as his power, then why give up his life (of course Mafia would kill him now, right?). There are still other mafia left. Wouldn't he want to be a little more vague and keep him life so he can keep playing and keep helping the civs catch baddies? Couldn't he put a little more effort in and build a case on Jack and get us to follow? I just don't know. I am confused.

what is this? lol. is this post something mafia eloh would make if she had btsc with jack? i mean, she does a lot of shady shit that i can look for mafia intentions behind and make a full blown "lynch eloh" post on, but i don't believe this. i don't feel like eloh has btsc with anyone or she wouldn't have made that post imo. i don't have time to finish her iso and this has become too long, and a chore and i gtg in a bit.

conclusion:
i am someone who's always prone to reading eloh as bad, sometimes i'm right, sometimes i'm wrong. i think this is the first game i kinda town read her and it's based on 1. that last post there. i just can't imagine she has btsc with jack and churns that out. 2. the mac emotional post. 3. that jack post i caught reading her iso where she was shading me and jack points out he was only teasing me. it was weird. just weird.

i could probably make a case for eloh being unhelpful or bad. she's not my strongest town read, but i can't ignore that i'm influenced by emotional tells and i'm not sorry about it. i think it helps direct my intuition and i don't feel she was being disingenuous or fake like i have felt her act in the past (rightly so).

yes I definitely will. I read through it yesterday but didn't study it thoroughly but meant to go back and do so. My only problem is time. I have an appointment this afternoon that's going to take up a lot of time. I'll try to do it right now.

[juliets]

OOPS I screwed that up - dunya my answer is at the very bottom.

[juliets]

Don't buy any argument about Mata having a result on someone. If she had she would have been morr assertive.

So DDL.

Why did Mata differentiate in percentages Elo and Dunya if she had no results? Why not just have them lumped in with the 70% or less sure. She made the point in her post that she was assessing everyone so it would have been easy to say "these people I am more sure of" and "these people I'm less sure of" instead of having two people stand out of all the rest. I am less sure of dunya because of Mata's later comment and because she has had civ posts but I feel like Elo is definitely bad.

juliets if I have results on 2 mafia I'm not putting them in an ambiguous post like that, I'm making 10 posts per page in Caps Lock and bold.

And if I have only 1 result I make a better effort to differentiate Eloh and dunya.

But you are telling me what you would do, which is not necessarily the same thing as what Mata would do. She doesn't play like you.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Meh, I thought we had caught Luna slipping and we didn't.

Back to having to read pple for real.

luna or speed?

Luna.

But I was also suspecting some kind of set up by Speed based on the fact Luna is unable to defend herself.

your posts were saying "if speed is lying..." so i got confused. if speed is mafia, and luna is town, why would he have to set anything up himself? people were already scum reading her. he put himself in the middle and for no reason except to look bad when she flips town.

i still don't think speed is mafia.

Sorry I started rambling about a bunch of different possibilities while most people were still digesting Speed's claim. Including speed himself. Probably jumped the gun.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JaggedJimmyJay if you had rolled mafia with the role you claim to have, would you have role claimed?

Probably not when I did in this game. Once I’d seen a few flips and could get a better sense of the setup I might.

As a mafioso, I am not eager to tell everyone that I am a curser. And I don’t.

As a civilian, I am not eager to tell everyone that I am a curser. But I do it anyway, because I think it’s for the best to get it out there early instead of late.

It’s the same mindset that drove my miller claim in the other example I showed you before.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Don't buy any argument about Mata having a result on someone. If she had she would have been morr assertive.

So DDL.

Why did Mata differentiate in percentages Elo and Dunya if she had no results? Why not just have them lumped in with the 70% or less sure. She made the point in her post that she was assessing everyone so it would have been easy to say "these people I am more sure of" and "these people I'm less sure of" instead of having two people stand out of all the rest. I am less sure of dunya because of Mata's later comment and because she has had civ posts but I feel like Elo is definitely bad.

juliets if I have results on 2 mafia I'm not putting them in an ambiguous post like that, I'm making 10 posts per page in Caps Lock and bold.

And if I have only 1 result I make a better effort to differentiate Eloh and dunya.

But you are telling me what you would do, which is not necessarily the same thing as what Mata would do. She doesn't play like you.

I hope she does, because that's very obvious.

There are 2 mafia left. You find both of them. Why the hell do you stay silent about it?

That's game throwing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i'll say it again, this mata kill stinks.

if everyone decides to lynch eloh and she flips town, i look worse.
if everyone decides to lynch me and i flip town, eloh looks worse.

whoever killed mata was paying attention yesterday.

Any reason the killer wasn’t just Elohcin?

I realize any kill can be a frame. I don’t even care that Mata was killed specifically. My interest was in the watcher role. The mafia may not have known that was coming.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

And before anyone accuses me of TMI, I know it's not confirmed there are 2 mafia left, yada yada. Don't care.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Like the only reason a cop stays silent about a result is because they hope to get more info with the following nights.

If a cop gets what may be the entirety of the scum team, they shoudn't stay silent. Ever. They have the entire result of the game in their hands. They just need to dump it and it's GG.

[speedchuck]

What if Dunya and Eloh both visited the kill target one night?

[juliets]

@dunya, I don't have time to give you a good answer to your post because I've got to get ready to go. I do see that we disagree on the emotional post she made about not voting for someone who isn't there. At first I thought it was not AI but as I look back I see more an Elo that was highly upset that Mac was getting lynched right out of the box. I think her anger and frustration was because of that. Mata contrasted this behavior with her behavior in GG where she wasn't happy but did not show this kind of emotion (as you remember she was civ there). I'll see if I can find that post later. So thats a point where we disagree. I will try my best to get back to this later but I won't be home until after 4:00.

[dunya]

What if Dunya and Eloh both visited the kill target one night?

i can deny this on my part. i did not visit nutella n1 or nova n4 or mata n5.

[dunya]

Any reason the killer wasn’t just Elohcin?

well there's the part where i town read her.

[dunya]

dunya, I don't have time to give you a good answer to your post because I've got to get ready to go. I do see that we disagree on the emotional post she made about not voting for someone who isn't there. At first I thought it was not AI but as I look back I see more an Elo that was highly upset that Mac was getting lynched right out of the box. I think her anger and frustration was because of that. Mata contrasted this behavior with her behavior in GG where she wasn't happy but did not show this kind of emotion (as you remember she was civ there). I'll see if I can find that post later. So thats a point where we disagree. I will try my best to get back to this later but I won't be home until after 4:00.

okay, i'm in the minority who think the opposite. and i watched gossip girl unravel from a host stand point, as you know. maybe i'm the only one who thinks so. if everyone wants to lynch eloh because they don't believe her tone and think mata had a red check on her, i'm not going to oppose. do it.

[dunya]

eloh seems disinterested and disconnected. i expect a higher level of commitment to the game if she was mafia.

[dunya]

@JaggedJimmyJay if you had rolled mafia with the role you claim to have, would you have role claimed?

Probably not when I did in this game. Once I’d seen a few flips and could get a better sense of the setup I might.

As a mafioso, I am not eager to tell everyone that I am a curser. And I don’t.

As a civilian, I am not eager to tell everyone that I am a curser. But I do it anyway, because I think it’s for the best to get it out there early instead of late.

It’s the same mindset that drove my miller claim in the other example I showed you before.

what if epi somehow expressed that alignments wouldn't be revealed from roles to you and your team? considering jack had a fake role, it could have been a topic that was broached. what then?

i actually forgot when you role claimed. it was before juliets but on day 1 and not day 0 iirc. i have to check. this is kind of an important thing to me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Luna agreed to the curse to affirm her role. She hasn’t done anything. Kill her.

[Lunalee]

People, lynch correctly.
How vote Eloh?

another reason you can't do this crap, JJJ, is b/c of time zones. it is very disrespectful to those across the pond. Mac may be bad, and if so....good for those voters, praise be. But if not, that poor man had no way to defend himself b/c the thread decided to change things up on him while he was asleep. this is why we have 24 hours to discuss, so that everyone can be involved WHEN THEY ARE AWAKE. Voting someone while they are asleep and not giving them time to rebuttle is horrible.

linki...okay, he was mafia. my point still stands.

can you tell I am angry? Mafia makes me so angry these days. I hate the way it is played. I am so angry, I don't even care we got a mafia on day 1. y'all upset me. I am going to cool off.
linki - busser = jay according to daisy

Very early in game, I thought I saw a subtle connection between DDL and Nova. Not indicating good or bad, just kind of having civil conversation, in and around lots of Jay posts. I thought it might develop into something indicating something, but it stopped after the thread got so busy. I also thought I saw a connection between Juliet’s and Jay, a bit later, but I didn’t see the connection with Jack that someone else brought up. Anyway, early stuff got dropped with more recent stuff.

DDL no read, not a boat rocker?
Dunya town
Elohcin leaning bad, I don’t think her posts felt genuine, but her reaction to the lynch was more important. I remember in Gossip Girl, I wasn’t really crazy about the way the lynches were handled, but I came around to appreciating it. Elohcin played that game but she didn’t get upset at all over the last minute vote switching. Her reaction today felt personal.

I’ll be back in a few with more.

Did we have people playing that game who were asleep when lynched?

I remember a time on this site when, if sanified, you would not be lynched. Players gave you a phase so you had a chance to defend yourself in case you were civ. These days, players will ignore you for a whole phase b/c someone made a confident, but wrong, claim. Even if you are pleading with them to listen. These days, you can be accused and lynched without being given a moment for defense. The fact that mac was bad is beside the point. I'm glad y'all got him. Good for you. But it's the principle. Jack can say I complain a lot. Fuck that... I have principles.

Now... I'm done talking about this. It is only taking away from finding baddies in this game. I am setting my feelings aside and moving forward.
We got a baddie!!! Let's do it again.

I am not sure what I think of LC now. Why would he come out and say he is 100% sure Jack is bad. If he is telling the truth and he can determine the alignment of a player as his power, then why give up his life (of course Mafia would kill him now, right?). There are still other mafia left. Wouldn't he want to be a little more vague and keep him life so he can keep playing and keep helping the civs catch baddies? Couldn't he put a little more effort in and build a case on Jack and get us to follow? I just don't know. I am confused.

Based on the claim, I'd say his role is obscenely difficult to nab a baddie with and that he got lucky. "Water turned to wine twice" or two nights in a row. It took two nights of luck for him to catch Jack.
That's like having a maybe-it-works-every-other-night cop. Not really worth protecting that slim-to-none possibility of another success instead of taking out a deepwolf leader.

Also, it would take a ton of time to case Jack in any convincing way, if it is possible to do so, and Long Con hasn't exactly been a top poster. Easier to just hand his stroke of luck over to town and see what happens.

wow, thank you for this chuck. I appreciate your understanding of this and for sharing it. I'm excited now.

updated version. fixed mistakes pointed out last time

Day 3 votes
b]Final votes[/b]
Jackofhearts2005 - Long Con, juliets*, Kites, Dragon D. Luffy, Matahari*, Spacedaisy*, Elohcin*, JaggedJimmyJay*, leetic**, nijuukyugou**

leetic - novaselinenever

novaselinenever - dunya

no vote - reywas, Neverwhere, speedchuck

[Lunalee]

Luna agreed to the curse to affirm her role. She hasn’t done anything. Kill her.

how