U-Pick Mafia Vol 1 - Game Over

[dunya]

How is this

I've pointed out to her how you can use your choice of role to influence your likely affiliation

meaningfully different from what I said? "Complete misrepresentation," lol, gimme a break.

Because dunya went after me for suggesting I’d picked a role that was more likely than not to be placed town, and you mar out like I was going after dunya on the idea that her rolecard is likely to be bad. Complete opposite.

dude, what are you smoking? is it the weekend in new zealand already?

i simply dismissed your theory that "you're squeaky clean" cos of your "super duper town sounding role". you're bitter about it, obviously, but that won't help me change my mind.

i told you Mac would randomize that shit. handpicking is the lamest poop on earth, if it's not a player draft, and i refuse to play a game where people were specifically chosen into their alliances. sorry, not sorry. that's a crappy way to determine luck and chances. you're set on proving that you picked a town role that can never not be town, under any circumstances, and you don't think that sounds bad? like, put yourself in my shoes, and imagine i was doing what you're doing right now.

theorize about it all you want, with people who agree with you. i'm not wasting my time on that. and stop acting like i'm bulling you into silence. you're free to say whatever the hell you want and i'm free to disagree with you as much as i like.

[ColinIsCool]

How is this

I've pointed out to her how you can use your choice of role to influence your likely affiliation

meaningfully different from what I said? "Complete misrepresentation," lol, gimme a break.

Because dunya went after me for suggesting I’d picked a role that was more likely than not to be placed town, and you mar out like I was going after dunya on the idea that her rolecard is likely to be bad. Complete opposite.

Now that's a complete misrepresentation. Show me in my post where I say anything is alignment indicative for dunya, or for you, or that I care about either of you scumhunting the other? My quibble is with the notion that Mac picked alignment based on roles that we submitted. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I would be very, very surprised if the game worked like that.

[ColinIsCool]

[VOTE: wolbre] aubergine

wolbre, I do not buy your quest for the missing boob one bit. No sir I do not.

[dunya]

hey nutella, i think runny eggs are gross. fight me.

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

[MacDougall]

I have updated the first post with an FAQ section.
I also realised that I hadn't added the host poll option and it deleted votes. Just revote please.

[Golden]

"You're bitter about it"

Projecting again.

"Stop acting like"

The only think I'm acting like is like I think you are bad, because I do, and you are.

[VOTE: Dunya] aubergine

[dunya]

FAQ:

Did you randomise the alignments?

Yes. In this game the players pre-selected their character, not their alignment or role. 100% of alignments were selected based on randomisation. No single player was specifically selected to a certain alignment. The roles were designed based on three factors: enjoyment of the player, flavour of the character and the alignment they rolled.

can i get Lizzy rolling her eyes? cos i'm rolling my eyes.

[wolbre04]

[VOTE: wolbre] aubergine

wolbre, I do not buy your quest for the missing boob one bit. No sir I do not.

Well what the hell do you want me to do about it...
I have a series of quests and finding my partner is one of them. I can almost guarantee that someone else didn't pick the other boob... no shit sherlock.
Someone HAS it I think and I need to find it

The roles are ridiculous what did you expect

[wolbre04]

I hope you don't think I'm simple enough to believe that someone coincidentally wanted his other tit.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am entertaining dunya and Golden as being on opposing mafia teams.

[Golden]

FAQ:

Did you randomise the alignments?

Yes. In this game the players pre-selected their character, not their alignment or role. 100% of alignments were selected based on randomisation. No single player was specifically selected to a certain alignment. The roles were designed based on three factors: enjoyment of the player, flavour of the character and the alignment they rolled.

can i get Lizzy rolling her eyes? cos i'm rolling my eyes.

This has got nothing to do with what Mac did.

Your reaction to my very first post could have been 'you missed the rules, Mac randomised'.

It wasn't.

You first reaction was 'golden is bad for claiming town'.

That Mac randomised only was apparent to me much later.

It didn't matter to you. You were determined to find me bad for it, and you've continued to project all this stuff on to me like that I'm wanting to push a narrative that Mac didn't randomise, which I am not and I have openly stated I'm not. I don't care about that narrative, the only relevance it has is in determining whether your reaction to me was genuine.

This is all just putting the start of the last game on repeat. You aren't asking real questions. You're just pushing a narrative about me.

[dunya]

I am entertaining dunya and Golden as being on opposing mafia teams.

and what are you going to do about it?

[Golden]

I am entertaining dunya and Golden as being on opposing mafia teams.

What benefit is there in 'entertaining' w/w when you could give each read separately? Is the point that this is not a bus?

[Golden]

I hope you don't think I'm simple enough to believe that someone coincidentally wanted his other tit.

Exactly.

There was nothing about the setup to imply collaboration on roles isn't possible.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am entertaining dunya and Golden as being on opposing mafia teams.

and what are you going to do about it?

Continue to observe.

I am entertaining dunya and Golden as being on opposing mafia teams.

What benefit is there in 'entertaining' w/w when you could give each read separately? Is the point that this is not a bus?

I don't understand the first half of your question. I think you both look crappy right now, but not in such a way that I sense an effort to distance.

[ColinIsCool]

[VOTE: wolbre] aubergine

wolbre, I do not buy your quest for the missing boob one bit. No sir I do not.

Well what the hell do you want me to do about it...
I have a series of quests and finding my partner is one of them. I can almost guarantee that someone else didn't pick the other boob... no shit sherlock.
Someone HAS it I think and I need to find it

The roles are ridiculous what did you expect

I can see that happening. But I have this caveat: my understanding has been that, usually, when you're given a role that is meant to search another player out, you aren't allowed to just go in the thread and say "Hey, Dale Cooper here, which one of you guys is Laura/has the ring?" That would be kind of gamebreaking to my eyes.

But there are ways that the mechanic could work, I suppose, and I haven't played Mafia with this crowd as much as some of you, so, rest of the players: what do you think? In a (semi) reasonable set-up, would wolbre be allowed to post as he has been? Or no?

[Golden]

handpicking who the scum are based on the deliberately weird role they submitted would be a supremely strange mod decision and out of line with at least every game I've played.

Colin, this is what you said.

[Golden]

I am entertaining dunya and Golden as being on opposing mafia teams.

and what are you going to do about it?

Continue to observe.

I am entertaining dunya and Golden as being on opposing mafia teams.

What benefit is there in 'entertaining' w/w when you could give each read separately? Is the point that this is not a bus?

I don't understand the first half of your question. I think you both look crappy right now, but not in such a way that I sense an effort to distance.

I haven't even read any of your posts before that one. Do you suppose I should?

[ColinIsCool]

FAQ:

Did you randomise the alignments?

Yes. In this game the players pre-selected their character, not their alignment or role. 100% of alignments were selected based on randomisation. No single player was specifically selected to a certain alignment. The roles were designed based on three factors: enjoyment of the player, flavour of the character and the alignment they rolled.

can i get Lizzy rolling her eyes? cos i'm rolling my eyes.

This has got nothing to do with what Mac did.

Your reaction to my very first post could have been 'you missed the rules, Mac randomised'.

It wasn't.

You first reaction was 'golden is bad for claiming town'.

That Mac randomised only was apparent to me much later.

It didn't matter to you. You were determined to find me bad for it, and you've continued to project all this stuff on to me like that I'm wanting to push a narrative that Mac didn't randomise, which I am not and I have openly stated I'm not. I don't care about that narrative, the only relevance it has is in determining whether your reaction to me was genuine.

This is all just putting the start of the last game on repeat. You aren't asking real questions. You're just pushing a narrative about me.

But Mac didn't say all that until right now, iirc, so dunya couldn't have said it?

[ColinIsCool]

handpicking who the scum are based on the deliberately weird role they submitted would be a supremely strange mod decision and out of line with at least every game I've played.

Colin, this is what you said.

I know what I said. Do you?

[wolbre04]

[VOTE: wolbre] aubergine

wolbre, I do not buy your quest for the missing boob one bit. No sir I do not.

Well what the hell do you want me to do about it...
I have a series of quests and finding my partner is one of them. I can almost guarantee that someone else didn't pick the other boob... no shit sherlock.
Someone HAS it I think and I need to find it

The roles are ridiculous what did you expect

I can see that happening. But I have this caveat: my understanding has been that, usually, when you're given a role that is meant to search another player out, you aren't allowed to just go in the thread and say "Hey, Dale Cooper here, which one of you guys is Laura/has the ring?" That would be kind of gamebreaking to my eyes.

But there are ways that the mechanic could work, I suppose, and I haven't played Mafia with this crowd as much as some of you, so, rest of the players: what do you think? In a (semi) reasonable set-up, would wolbre be allowed to post as he has been? Or no?

The tit is an item probably. If I was breaking an obvious rule someone would've caled me out (And I even asked mac a question about my role since doing this so i feel im fine)

[dunya]

FAQ:

Did you randomise the alignments?

Yes. In this game the players pre-selected their character, not their alignment or role. 100% of alignments were selected based on randomisation. No single player was specifically selected to a certain alignment. The roles were designed based on three factors: enjoyment of the player, flavour of the character and the alignment they rolled.

can i get Lizzy rolling her eyes? cos i'm rolling my eyes.

This has got nothing to do with what Mac did.

Your reaction to my very first post could have been 'you missed the rules, Mac randomised'.

It wasn't.

You first reaction was 'golden is bad for claiming town'.

That Mac randomised only was apparent to me much later.

It didn't matter to you. You were determined to find me bad for it, and you've continued to project all this stuff on to me like that I'm wanting to push a narrative that Mac didn't randomise, which I am not and I have openly stated I'm not. I don't care about that narrative, the only relevance it has is in determining whether your reaction to me was genuine.

This is all just putting the start of the last game on repeat. You aren't asking real questions. You're just pushing a narrative about me.

calm down, mac updated the FAQ now, it wasn't written anywhere before. but i was sure mac wouldn't break his own game.

i didn't even suspect you for questioning whether roles had any impact on alliances; like you said, i just dismissed it. I suspected you for being disengaged and holding back. you were all over the place in ancient greece, you're playing a totally different game here and THAT is suspicious. pushing this half-baked case against me doesn't mean you're not holding back. and i do suspect you now for pushing fake narratives about me and colin about you, but that's another story.

[wolbre04]

Or maybe the tit is like a passive role idfk. Whoever has it probably has some sort of ability from me not having it yet

[ColinIsCool]

I think Golden and I may be arguing semantics tbh. I'm not saying "scum" in that post as a judgment on anybody, but rather an interpretation of what (I think) you are saying; an obviously town leaning role would be town, an obviously scum leaning role would be scum. This is what you were implying could happen, right?

[Golden]

FAQ:

Did you randomise the alignments?

Yes. In this game the players pre-selected their character, not their alignment or role. 100% of alignments were selected based on randomisation. No single player was specifically selected to a certain alignment. The roles were designed based on three factors: enjoyment of the player, flavour of the character and the alignment they rolled.

can i get Lizzy rolling her eyes? cos i'm rolling my eyes.

This has got nothing to do with what Mac did.

Your reaction to my very first post could have been 'you missed the rules, Mac randomised'.

It wasn't.

You first reaction was 'golden is bad for claiming town'.

That Mac randomised only was apparent to me much later.

It didn't matter to you. You were determined to find me bad for it, and you've continued to project all this stuff on to me like that I'm wanting to push a narrative that Mac didn't randomise, which I am not and I have openly stated I'm not. I don't care about that narrative, the only relevance it has is in determining whether your reaction to me was genuine.

This is all just putting the start of the last game on repeat. You aren't asking real questions. You're just pushing a narrative about me.

But Mac didn't say all that until right now, iirc, so dunya couldn't have said it?

Well in that case I couldn't have known it so yay!

But I don't really care when Mac said it because it was never my point in the first place.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I haven't even read any of your posts before that one. Do you suppose I should?

You read the posts in which I cast suspicion upon dunya. Otherwise read as you see fit -- that was my first foray into a Golden read.

[Scotty]

@dunya you never explained why you said Scotty was town. Please explain

I felt his plea to not be "vigged cos he has an awesome role" authentic. in retrospect, perhaps I should be concerned he said vigged and not nkd. eh, scotty is oddly suspicious by nature. in ancient greece, I knew he wasn't scum but had doubts about him myself sometimes. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and a green town pass for now.

[dunya]

I haven't even read any of your posts before that one. Do you suppose I should?

You read the posts in which I cast suspicion upon dunya.

he's a good bullshitter, Jay. stop it.

[Scotty]

[VOTE: nova] aubergine

[ColinIsCool]

Or maybe the tit is like a passive role idfk. Whoever has it probably has some sort of ability from me not having it yet

Could be. I still want to hear what other people have to say though.

[dunya]

@dunya you never explained why you said Scotty was town. Please explain

I felt his plea to not be "vigged cos he has an awesome role" authentic. in retrospect, perhaps I should be concerned he said vigged and not nkd. eh, scotty is oddly suspicious by nature. in ancient greece, I knew he wasn't scum but had doubts about him myself sometimes. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and a green town pass for now.

sorry, but sometimes when I was building a case against you, your posts kinda led the path for me and i'd be like wow, do we have a scummate i don't know about

[Golden]

I think Golden and I may be arguing semantics tbh. I'm not saying "scum" in that post as a judgment on anybody, but rather an interpretation of what (I think) you are saying; an obviously town leaning role would be town, an obviously scum leaning role would be scum. This is what you were implying could happen, right?

No.

I'm saying it's possible to have created a role that, no matter how obvious it might seem to the players, as a host it would be almost impossible to balance the game if you put an ability that fit with that role in a particular faction.

But since Mac doesn't promise balance, it was never meaningful anyway.

calm down,

More projecting.

You very much like to add emotional context to my posts at your own determination. This is the first and most fundamental thing I do not think is town-leaning of your gameplay. These attempts to add emotion to everything I'm saying are inherently an attempt to control the narrative.

I am not and have not been experiencing any of the emotions you are putting on me.

[Golden]

I haven't even read any of your posts before that one. Do you suppose I should?

You read the posts in which I cast suspicion upon dunya.

he's a good bullshitter, Jay. stop it.

Oh, Jay knows.

[wolbre04]

[VOTE: Lilifer] aubergine
Get in here boy

[dunya]

[VOTE: nova] aubergine

are you lynching a no-poster today?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A tendency I noticed in dunya's play both in Fire Emblem and Ancient Greece was to speak in absolute terms how a game is constructed (whether its roles or its mechanics) beyond the knowledge a civilian can have or the confidence a civilian should have. Indeed, she was critical of others who considered theories beyond the obvious truth she promoted -- one born of her unique knowledge given her mafia alignments.

Her early stature in this game given Golden's notion of a character submission inspiring a more probable civilian alignment is a suitable parallel. I actually agree with her logic in base terms -- a Mafia game would be in its most proper form, randomized entirely. Mac himself suggested though that this game may be bastardized or otherwise not entirely balanced. There ought to be some room to consider the less obvious or logical possibilities.

[Golden]

But, I do agree we are arguing semantics Colin and I like the look on you. You feel way different to me than Greece.

[ColinIsCool]

I think Golden and I may be arguing semantics tbh. I'm not saying "scum" in that post as a judgment on anybody, but rather an interpretation of what (I think) you are saying; an obviously town leaning role would be town, an obviously scum leaning role would be scum. This is what you were implying could happen, right?

No.

I'm saying it's possible to have created a role that, no matter how obvious it might seem to the players, as a host it would be almost impossible to balance the game if you put an ability that fit with that role in a particular faction.

But since Mac doesn't promise balance, it was never meaningful anyway.

Hmm ... okay. I didn't get that from your previous posts at all. You're right that it's irrelevant, considering Mac clarified the whole thing for us.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My concern with Golden is less substantial -- I thought he handled Colin with more dramatic flair than the scene warranted.

[motel room]

You people are insane. But I’m more insane for thinking that JJJ vs. dunya is mafia on mafia.

What do you see that tells you this?

Tinfoil.

I felt that at first because it didnt seem to start naturally but its too early in the game.

I've had this reply open for almost an hour, I can't play this at work anymore

[Golden]

Jay, in your experience, does town Dunya constantly project emotions on to people?

Anyone else can contribute to this question too.

My own instinct is to read anyone who constantly projects emotions as being someone who is intentionally trying to drive the narrative and get others to read a person's post in that emotional light.

Trying to make me appear angry, irritated, not calm or somehow emotionally invested in my belief that she is bad bothers me a lot. It's a very smart approach to discrediting my thoughts.

[ColinIsCool]

But, I do agree we are arguing semantics Colin and I like the look on you. You feel way different to me than Greece.

My scumhunting is probably more natural sounding in this game, on account of not being scum this time and all that.

[dunya]

A tendency I noticed in dunya's play both in Fire Emblem and Ancient Greece was to speak in absolute terms how a game is constructed (whether its roles or its mechanics) beyond the knowledge a civilian can have or the confidence a civilian should have. Indeed, she was critical of others who considered theories beyond the obvious truth she promoted -- one born of her unique knowledge given her mafia alignments.

Her early stature in this game given Golden's notion of a character submission inspiring a more probable civilian alignment is a suitable parallel. I actually agree with her logic in base terms -- a Mafia game would be in its most proper form, randomized entirely. Mac himself suggested though that this game may be bastardized or otherwise not entirely balanced. There ought to be some room to consider the less obvious or logical possibilities.

i'm really sorry jay, i really don't understand what you're trying to say. like i get the words, but i don't get the point.

anyway, a disclaimer to "hey guys there's a lot of roles so this game might be imbalanced" is different to fucking handpicking teams. there's no "maybe imbalanced" in a handpicked game. i refuse to entertain that possibility because i won't play games like that. period.

[wolbre04]

Jay, in your experience, does town Dunya constantly project emotions on to people?

Anyone else can contribute to this question too.

My own instinct is to read anyone who constantly projects emotions as being someone who is intentionally trying to drive the narrative and get others to read a person's post in that emotional light.

Trying to make me appear angry, irritated, not calm or somehow emotionally invested in my belief that she is bad bothers me a lot. It's a very smart approach to discrediting my thoughts.

I went from a generally null read to straight red in Greece because of her

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, in your experience, does town Dunya constantly project emotions on to people?

I cannot say with confidence, though I do know of at least one example which might facilitate a reasonable comparison. I'll grab you a link.

I do believe that a civilian dunya is herself/i] highly emotionally charged. I cannot say she projects emotion in the same way though.

[Golden]

My concern with Golden is less substantial -- I thought he handled Colin with more dramatic flair than the scene warranted.

It wasn't Colin that I was handling but the way dunya responded to Colin.

Colin even admitted he hadn't read the original dispute. I had no expectation he'd know what I said. Dunya was very close to it and could easily have chosen a nuanced path in her response to Colin. She chose to use it to broad brush me.

[dunya]

Jay, in your experience, does town Dunya constantly project emotions on to people?

Anyone else can contribute to this question too.

My own instinct is to read anyone who constantly projects emotions as being someone who is intentionally trying to drive the narrative and get others to read a person's post in that emotional light.

Trying to make me appear angry, irritated, not calm or somehow emotionally invested in my belief that she is bad bothers me a lot. It's a very smart approach to discrediting my thoughts.

the calm down was more like, slow down tbh. you're going on a rant about how i should have handled your misinformation if i was informed of mac's FAQ. that wasn't the case.

[dunya]

you think i'm bad, then you start to try and develop reasons i'm bad. that's my issue with you, Golden. it doesn't seem organic. it seems planted and fake and pick them as you go along.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, in your experience, does town Dunya constantly project emotions on to people?

I cannot say with confidence, though I do know of at least one example which might facilitate a reasonable comparison. I'll grab you a link.

Link

This was the George Costanza sock, though it's ironically back to being dunya.

[Golden]

you think i'm bad, then you start to try and develop reasons i'm bad. that's my issue with you, Golden. it doesn't seem organic. it seems planted and fake and pick them as you go along.

That's not your issue with me. You said I was bad before I'd even engaged with you. You've even admitted I'm omgussing you.