Enrique wrote:Golden wrote:This is so incredibly misleading and twiwtsy.
Let's see how this goes.
Enrique, this is the last time I'll say this. There are literally NO civilian roles for whom independent chasing is the best move. Except the dirty cops who get recruited.
This is so incredibly misleading and twiwtsy! (am I using that word right? I don't actually know what it means)
It's also straight up false. Do I need to explain to you how the Wayne Manor roles work? Because it's not hard to figure out. They need to achieve a 100% win condition to win the game; each dead Mafia / bought up gives them 5%, so that's at most 30% they can get from them. Where does the rest come from? Arkham Asylum. Each inmate gives them 12%, so if they manage to kill all the Mafia and 6 inmates, that's the least they can do to win the game! But then, that leaves them with 102%. If
one GCDP civvie dies, they lose 2%, so even all the mafia + six inmates isn't enough if two civvies die! And they lose a WHOLE 8% for every member of their faction that dies. So that's a fuckton of inmates they need to kill. That at least one other civvie needs to kill as well
or they don't win. Why the hell would I as a cop go and kill the mafia when, unless I've killed my assigned indie, it does NOTHING for me?
Don't try to argue Wayne Manor isn't civvie because nearly all of us have different win conditions.
The civilian cops need 6 out of 6 baddies dead and 1 out of 10 independents dead. The other three need 6 out of 6 baddies dead and 0 out of 10 independents dead.
Yes. So every inmate (you keep saying independent, more on that later) is needed dead by the civvies. Got you.
On the other hand, the independents don't have any stake in killing the baddies (Except one or two discrete instances like the joker)
No. This is false. They absolutely do. Whether their win condition is to survive, to kill certain players, to align themselves with another player, they ALL need the game to end with their conditions in place. The game ends when the Mafia dies. There IS no going back. Why would you even say that? What are their stakes according to you? From how I see it, the game ending with them still alive is the best thing that could happen to them.
So you're wrong again. You use the opposite argument against me, "of course baddies would benefit from indie hunt!" but you fail to see how that goes both ways. Why?
so how do you get 'there are fifteen baddie roles that need to baddie hunt'.... That makes no sense at all.
First off, that's not a real quote so I'm not sure what you're getting at. Second of all, what are we doing right now? What did the opening post say? Aren't we looking for the escapees? That's a fundamental part of this game that you're completely DENYING, and dude, you can't do that. Because they're the only players (with exactly three exceptions) who win that way.
Plus, you still fail to address my point that going after independents is exactly what the baddies WOULD be doing.
Woops, I actually addressed that prematurely. So let me hint at the next point that I've actually stated before: the inmates are baddies.
And you say '15 baddie ones' which just goes to prove that you are still painting the independents as mafia when they are not.
They absolutely are, Golden, I'm sorry. You were the first to describe them as "independents," the roles list never did such thing. You act like they're our allies in some way but that simply doesn't work. Sure, we can win with some of them, but not all of us! Not with all! They're the ENEMY, the goal of the game is to FIND THEM. I care about the mafia. I'm tired of being portrayed as if I'm only going after the inmates. But BOTH need to go, no buts. The argument to leave the inmates alone
doesn't hold up. It's a terrible idea. You can't just ask the civvies to leave their victory to chance instead of pursuing it.
I'll tell you how many role cards suggest chasing the baddies before the indys.
13 civilian ones.
And NOONE else.
Thats it.
