Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sloonei. you're asking your questions of people and that's groovy. keep doing it. but i haven't seen a read from you lately (unless i overlooked something).

who are your suspects? your town reads?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i don't have the time or energy to redevelop every read of mine this night phase. so based on what work i have done to this point, here's a rainbow.

MovingPictures07
Dragon D. Luffy
Sloonei

sanmateo
Black Rock
G-Man
birdswithteeth11

Roxy
Turnip Head
Dom

fingersplints
acrosstheaether
Metalmarsh89

Bass_the_Clever
Elohcin
Epignosis

[Sloonei]

Sloonei. you're asking your questions of people and that's groovy. keep doing it. but i haven't seen a read from you lately (unless i overlooked something).

who are your suspects? your town reads?

Bass and elohcin are my primary suspects right now. I'm closest to leaning town on you, dragon, and maybe MP. Everyone else is varying degrees of neutral. Of our fellow RYMers, I'm more inclined to respect aether than sanmateo. TinyBubbles, in her couple of posts, has seemed fairly honest to me, but I still want more consistent contribution from her.

I'll take a look at the votes soon.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

just remembered to address this:

That said, I still have a neutral opinion on MP, maybe somewhat leaning to the scum side. I thought the way he defended me at the start felt somewhat forced, specially when he made his first rainbow list and put me on the top and the guy who was accusing me the most at the bottom. I'm just naturally suspicious of people who defend me too much. Which brings me to the interactions between him and JJJ. The two seem to be buddying a lot, and taking turns at defending me while accusing the ones who attack me. I honestly appreciate your support, but I can't help but feel like it's forced sometimes. This post is one that specially irks me:

You act as though I haven't been defending him constantly.

you're right, you've defended him plenty. we can co-chair the defense of DDL committee.

The two of you also have each other pretty high on your rainbow lists (and you both have those!). I can't help but think at least one of you is a mafia player who is using the opportunity to gain the trust of two people (me, and the other one of you). I doubt both of you are mafia though, that would be a risky play.

MP and i have become good Mafia pals in recent memory. we've played on RYM and communicated in the champs game Skype as he was spectating Turnip Head. so my behavior with him is likely to be more chummy by default. you could probably observe similar content in my posts about Sloonei who i've known as long as anyone on the Internet.

i've explained in very thorough detail why you're a town read for me. so i recommend you check your uneasy feelings against the ISO i provided of you and decide whether i'm not being genuine. and do the same for MP, because he has also put plenty of effort into describing his confidence in you. that's the content that makes any difference.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i don't have the time or energy to redevelop every read of mine this night phase. so based on what work i have done to this point, here's a rainbow.

MovingPictures07
Dragon D. Luffy
Sloonei

sanmateo
Black Rock
G-Man
birdswithteeth11

Roxy
Turnip Head
Dom
>> TinyBubbles <<

fingersplints
acrosstheaether
Metalmarsh89

Bass_the_Clever
Elohcin
Epignosis

forgot someone again. enjoy a colorful new page.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei. you're asking your questions of people and that's groovy. keep doing it. but i haven't seen a read from you lately (unless i overlooked something).

who are your suspects? your town reads?

Bass and elohcin are my primary suspects right now. I'm closest to leaning town on you, dragon, and maybe MP. Everyone else is varying degrees of neutral. Of our fellow RYMers, I'm more inclined to respect aether than sanmateo. TinyBubbles, in her couple of posts, has seemed fairly honest to me, but I still want more consistent contribution from her.

I'll take a look at the votes soon.

respect = suspect
This was not a hella uncalled for diss of sanmateo.

[sanmateo]

[YouTube 94bNyh6BBB0]

was watching the sprots but i'll catch up now

[sanmateo]

smh at that video link

[Epignosis]

Epignosis, do you have anything for real to say to Golden's and others' suspicion of you?

No.

And do you have any suspects yet?

Yes.

do you have any intention of sharing their name(s)?

Later.

i'll hold you to this

I'm hosting a big game and doing other things. Now I can talk.

sanmateo and fingersplints both voted for MP after I pulled my stunt. fingersplints might guess that I was doing something like that, but sanmateo doesn't know me.

i think ddl did a lot of scummy shit but at this point im most likely gonna vote for mp07 or th (unexplained vote + "im playing unlike me on purpose"). although mm did the unexplained vote too but they have been more active. i'm looking at golden and wondering if someone's bussing him but i'm not gonna vote for them based on that, i just dont think they're being particularly scummy and its really odd that they are the one player with votes on them rn

or i might just vote ddl out of sheer spite, who knows?

Golden wasn't being "bussed" and I don't understand why anyone would come to that conclusion when Golden only had two votes. I thought Golden was being saved.

Of all the names sanmateo raises, MP (the person he voted for) was the only one without an explanation in this paragraph.

DDL = did scummy shit
TH = unexplained vote + "I'm playing unlike me on purpose."
Golden = Maybe someone is throwing him under a bus
Mp07 = Nothing

How do people feel about the other two players (MP and Bass) who received multiple votes, in the wake of Golden's lynch?

i still think mp07 is suspicious (he's fucsia on my rainbow list), but elo is my main suspect rn

Again, no reason.

And Elohcin is his top suspect.

at this point i think as scum team of elo + mp07 is more likely than elo + epi, if elo and epi were scum teams their voting would have been very clumsy. in any case i think everyone should focus on getting 1 scum and work their way back instead of trying to catch the whole scum team at once.

This is keeping his hand on the trigger while staying out of the fire.

It gives him an excuse to vote Eloh (a popular choice now all of a sudden) while remaining suspicious of MP. That's posturing.

++++

And 3J? I'm going to call his fluffy ass out too.

Last chance to vote, right? He voted for Bass. 12:16pm EST.

Teddy Ruxpin said:

Might be my only chance to vote at work before the deadline.

Voting for Bass_the_Clever

why them over elohcin or epi?

I have less conviction for my suspicion of Eloh than the other two. With Epi i can at least ask myself "is it necessary for mafia Epi to carry on this much to get a townie lynched?" and be given a little pause. Because normally townies do a nice job lynching each other on Day 1 without any veiled mafia guidance.

I also think Bass is more likely to be lynched than the other two considering the progression of the thread lately.

"Is it necessary for mafia Epi to carry on this much to get a townie lynched?"

But when I voted for Golden, 3J thinks he's onto something.

Horse fucking shit, boys and girls.

And this came before the lynch:

I don't think Epignosis has made a single good point in this game and his Golden vote is nonsense. So I'm definitely on board with making him dead.

3J could have voted later, but he didn't. His reason for voting Bass over anyone else?

"I also think Bass is more likely to be lynched than the other two considering the progression of the thread lately."

3J voted on who was mostly likely to be lynched, but voted for Bass before anyone else did. What the hell?

You all need to wake up and smell the bear shit. It's ripe.

[Turnip Head]

Sorry Golden. Rest in peace.

[sanmateo]

lol i explained my vote for mp and the reasons i suspect him in a bunch of posts you aren't quoting, which is more than what most people did for golden. i also said 2 or 3 times that i wasnt voting for mp based on your silly timing stunt.

[sanmateo]

besides it's not like i jumped on an elo bandwagon, she wasnt getting much attention at all before http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 80#p143875

[JaggedJimmyJay]

And 3J? I'm going to call his fluffy ass out too.

and you're going to do so without addressing the points i made against you directly. you'll deflect attention back upon me and take the offensive because it's your preferred method for manipulation. i can see it down there in those words already.

Last chance to vote, right? He voted for Bass. 12:16pm EST.

Teddy Ruxpin said:

Might be my only chance to vote at work before the deadline.

Voting for Bass_the_Clever

why them over elohcin or epi?

I have less conviction for my suspicion of Eloh than the other two. With Epi i can at least ask myself "is it necessary for mafia Epi to carry on this much to get a townie lynched?" and be given a little pause. Because normally townies do a nice job lynching each other on Day 1 without any veiled mafia guidance.

I also think Bass is more likely to be lynched than the other two considering the progression of the thread lately.

"Is it necessary for mafia Epi to carry on this much to get a townie lynched?"

But when I voted for Golden, 3J thinks he's onto something.

Horse fucking shit, boys and girls.

i'd expect you to have a better eye for horse fucking shit considering your propensity for putting it all over the thread. this weak point essentially highlights the point i made before in the post you ignored. you "carried on" against MP, forcing about a hundred posts out of him. you made yourself his only focus for nearly half of Day 1, thereby eliminating any opportunity he could have had to mafia hunt on his own. but with Golden? you didn't carry on at all. you made a couple extremely vague comments about him and then before he could reasonably be expected to answer to your vagueness, you voted for him. and that vote looked very much like an opportunistic one for a confirmed townie gaining criticism in the thread.

And this came before the lynch:

I don't think Epignosis has made a single good point in this game and his Golden vote is nonsense. So I'm definitely on board with making him dead.

3J could have voted later, but he didn't.

that's right. i found a minute at work to pay the thread a visit on my phone, saw some general developments (primarily the Golden avalanche and your part in it), and made the one comment i felt most worthy of my only post that hour. i could have voted then too though i had no way of knowing the opportunity would arise before that. and if you'd like to question my "RL", go for it. you know shit about my RL so you won't have any fake meta crap to draw from as you did with MP.

His reason for voting Bass over anyone else?

"I also think Bass is more likely to be lynched than the other two considering the progression of the thread lately."

3J voted on who was mostly likely to be lynched, but voted for Bass before anyone else did. What the hell?

You all need to wake up and smell the bear shit. It's ripe.

hey Epi, why don't you have a look at that poll up there. the one with the votes?

Bass - 5

Epi - 0

it would appear i was correct. and how did i know? let's examine in the most simple terms how the thread at large was handling with those two players:

Bass -- some people are suspicious, and nobody is defending him

Epi -- some people are suspicious, and some people are defending him (see: "that's just be Epi being Epi" gripe)

so with that observation in hand, which of the two do you think is more likely to be lynched? this is an easy one.

[Roxy]

Bye Golden this site hates people who return after long absences - Idk why.

I knew he was civ and am so surprised MP did not immediately feel the same.
I also wish others. who know him better would have spoke out more.

Epi - what kind of game are you playing that you purposely upset a player to the point of them getting upset irl? What was the point of it? What was up with your vote?

Jimmy jj- I quoted what I did bc I found you suspicious for posting that we should appreciate you more bc of your new role. ofc you would say that - everyone would but for me it is the fact you have to qualify yourself with that statement.

TH - your Golden vote and subsequent reasoning was so shady. When I read your elaboration fr your vote it read like it was something you came up with bc you needed something to explain your vote. I knew that new players would listen you and MP but I thought they would be able to see through that charade of a vote.

Bass - I found MP and his back and forth quite funny. I get why MP questioned you and pressed you for some suspicions (I do the same thing to DP) what I don't get is why after that MP would say that you are playing different and posting more. lmao! I guess MP forgot you posted more bc you were answering his questions. I thought your responses felt genuine and a little forced bc you. do not normally play this way.

Elo - I can add nothing that others have not already said. I will say you do often have weird votes and that I have wrongly lynched you for it a few times. but damn gurl your vote for Golden felt REALLY weird.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jimmy jj- I quoted what I did bc I found you suspicious for posting that we should appreciate you more bc of your new role. ofc you would say that - everyone would but for me it is the fact you have to qualify yourself with that statement.

i didn't mean you should appreciate me more. i meant you should care about my current role more than my previous role. because my previous role is irrelevant to this game.

[Roxy]

Jimmy jj- I quoted what I did bc I found you suspicious for posting that we should appreciate you more bc of your new role. ofc you would say that - everyone would but for me it is the fact you have to qualify yourself with that statement.

i didn't mean you should appreciate me more. i meant you should care about my current role more than my previous role. because my previous role is irrelevant to this game.

Again you are qualifying - why? All roles are relevant in this game. Why should I appreciate you more? I am already skimming al the iso stuff if that has something to do with it then I am sorry.
What is iso what does it mean? It reads like a suspicions list but only one at a time.

Also fyi the rainbow lists are strange. Why do they have color? Why can't you just list them in order of suspicion? Why are you painting targets by mentioning your most trusted?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jimmy jj- I quoted what I did bc I found you suspicious for posting that we should appreciate you more bc of your new role. ofc you would say that - everyone would but for me it is the fact you have to qualify yourself with that statement.

i didn't mean you should appreciate me more. i meant you should care about my current role more than my previous role. because my previous role is irrelevant to this game.

Again you are qualifying - why? All roles are relevant in this game. Why should I appreciate you more?

like i just said -- you shouldn't appreciate me more. my old role is meaningless now and my current role is not; that's it. because my old role is not mine anymore. someone else has it. i dunno who. the same goes for everyone.

I am already skimming al the iso stuff if that has something to do with it then I am sorry.
What is iso what does it mean? It reads like a suspicions list but only one at a time.

Also fyi the rainbow lists are strange. Why do they have color? Why can't you just list them in order of suspicion? Why are you painting targets by mentioning your most trusted?

ISO means "isolated post history". i was going through every players' individual posts and analyzing them. it doesn't imply i have any suspicion because i do ISOs for everyone. i'm definitely not suspicious of everyone. after analyzing those post histories i came to various conclusions and i shared my thoughts.

the rainbow lists are something i picked up on the 2+2 POG forum where the champs game series (in which Turnip Head participated) is being held. i think it's an appealing way to express reads with visual clarity, specifically because it makes it easy to show separate tiers. a flat list ordered by suspicion can also be tiered, and before picking up the rainbow concept that's what i did. i just like the rainbows.

and i don't think calling someone else a town read inherently paints them as targets. my reads are my own and nobody else has to agree with them. if everyone is calling the same people town reads that might be more meaningful and it might influence my posts accordingly. but my town reads are far from consensus. MP was under fire throughout Day 1. DDL was under fire throughout Day 1. nobody outside the RYMers knows anything about Sloonei. besides, the practice is just commonplace where i'm from. on RYM we tend to play very openly, and i am noting that people here seem to hate revealing anything. it probably stems from that "dead players can't win" rule that i've never seen on any site but this one. that's a unique standard and it has an obvious impact upon the play styles of everyone here.

[Tangrowth]

Not here for long, but I have a few things to say:

Epi, I miss the analytic, mathematical Epi, but maybe that's just me, particularly after yesterday. Your suspicion of sanmateo is bunk, especially since you ignored his reason for stating me (I did have a post earlier that sanmateo jumped on):

You act as though I haven't been defending him constantly.

why did you need to assert that?

Why would I not?

I don't need to assert anything, I choose to.

that one post made me feel so much better about ddl and so much worse about you, it straight up looks like buddying. am i being dumb again here?

How is that possible?

well, there is nothing inherently wrong about defending another player in day 1 but that you quoted an ongoing conversation exclusively to say that you have indeed been defending a player who has attracted a lot of suspicion so far feels really off to me. like you really want people to not forget that you were on his side in an scenario where he got lynched and flipped town.

i could understand it if your attitude ddl had been misrepresented but that wasnt the case, was it?

Oh, fair enough. Well, I didn't think of it that way. If it makes me look bad, that's fine, but I just didn't understand why Jay was repeatedly implying he was DDL's only defender when DDL specifically found me to be bad earlier for defending him.

And splints's reason for voting me was:

First off, I did not "no u" BR as I made my suspicion first. After that she then said she was watching me. Not that she was suspicious. Just watching. How the fuck is that "100% no u"
Her response did not satisfy me because it was basically a play for emotion like when she said something about how she thought I would know her better. This is something I would expect of baddie BR. Plus I now think she didn't mean to defend MP, so said she didn't, and then now she did and is backtracking.

I'll comment to the rest of MPs post later but I'm voting him now.
this feigned indignition has become pretty standard for MP. I can't give him a free pass again for this

Feigned indignation, it seems.

[Tangrowth]

Elohcin -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 Slight civilian read, #3 no change) -- DROP! Fixated on me all game, then suddenly had opinions on a ton of players with no explanation, including "leaning civilian" on Golden. Then continues to subtly push heat on me until I had an emotional breakdown, upon which she says that both (1) the breakdown doesn't bode well for me yet (2) votes Golden with literally no explanation. Could it get any objectively more scummy than this?

i think you are being manipulative with this, the problem for me isnt that she focused on you but that she had golden as a civilian read and without building a case she flipped and voted for him

at this point i think as scum team of elo + mp07 is more likely than elo + epi, if elo and epi were scum teams their voting would have been very clumsy. in any case i think everyone should focus on getting 1 scum and work their way back instead of trying to catch the whole scum team at once.

This is what I meant though.

It's not that she focused on ME specifically, it could have been anyone. It's the fact that she clearly only voiced one suspicion, then apparently did NOT drop it in the same post that she voted someone else for no reason.

If I die, lynch Elo and Epi, please.

[Tangrowth]

Bye Golden this site hates people who return after long absences - Idk why. (1)

I knew he was civ and am so surprised MP did not immediately feel the same. (2)
I also wish others. who know him better would have spoke out more.

Epi - what kind of game are you playing that you purposely upset a player to the point of them getting upset irl? What was the point of it? What was up with your vote? (3)

Jimmy jj- I quoted what I did bc I found you suspicious for posting that we should appreciate you more bc of your new role. ofc you would say that - everyone would but for me it is the fact you have to qualify yourself with that statement. (4)

TH - your Golden vote and subsequent reasoning was so shady. When I read your elaboration fr your vote it read like it was something you came up with bc you needed something to explain your vote. I knew that new players would listen you and MP but I thought they would be able to see through that charade of a vote. (5)

Bass - I found MP and his back and forth quite funny. I get why MP questioned you and pressed you for some suspicions (I do the same thing to DP) what I don't get is why after that MP would say that you are playing different and posting more. lmao! I guess MP forgot you posted more bc you were answering his questions. I thought your responses felt genuine and a little forced bc you. do not normally play this way. (6)

Elo - I can add nothing that others have not already said. I will say you do often have weird votes and that I have wrongly lynched you for it a few times. but damn gurl your vote for Golden felt REALLY weird.

As usual, you and I don't see eye to eye in certain respects, but we definitely do in others. In fact, it makes me feel better about you, but let me address some things here.

(1) Why did you say that? That's just untrue. No one voted out Golden because he's coming back from a long return. What purpose did this comment serve? I understand you're upset about losing a valuable asset, since we all know Golden is an amazing civilian, as am I, but I don't understand why you said this.

(2) My thoughts on Golden were transparent, I said for quite some time that there was something "off" about him, and that I did fear he was holding something back, but by the time I started really thinking he was civilian, he had 5+ votes.

(3) Now on THIS we can agree.

(4) This is interesting, but given your and Jay's subsequent conversation, I'm not sure I see it. Is there anything else that's bothered you about Jay? I'm still getting relatively good vibes from him.

(5) Is TH your top suspect? Who are your suspects?

(6) This is exactly NOT what I said. MM thought the same thing:

No worries, Jay!

MM, what do you mean you agree with me about Bass? In what regard?

His behavior seems different. He is posting more this game than I am accustomed to. But as I also said, he has been doing so in Flash Mafia, so this incident is not isolated.

On a more personal note, Bass asked me about my suspicions. I was thrown off a little by this. When I play with Bass, the only times he seems to talk to or discuss me is when he is saying I am bad and I should be lynched, or the very occasional civilian read of me. Of course, he is usually right.

Oh, you misunderstood. I didn't say he was acting different this game; I was entertaining a hypothetical condition in order to demonstrate a point he was making about ME acting differently.

Yes, that said, he has been more engaged this game than I have seen in recent memory halfway through Day 1's.

What do you think of him? Bad, civilian, what?

The one game that stands out in my mind was Dr.Who where you went after Zeek super hard and that was his first game on the syndicate.

LOL, yes, fair enough. But consider the following:

What if I genuinely don't suspect any of the new players?

Then it's fine I was just pointing out I agreed with splints that you were playing different then I have seen in the past. If I started to play different like if I started to posting a lot and I started pulling quotes would you not think something was up? Would you not want to watch me more closely?

I'd definitely think your behavior is different, but recognize that there could be many factors playing into your change of pace, including an influx of RL availability, or perhaps a desire to switch up your game for various possible reasons, etc.

Do you think I'm bad?

Bass asked me a hypothetical, so I answered it with "I'd" as in I would think it's different. I didn't say it was different this game.

Apparently, it was confusing, so that's my bad.

[Tangrowth]

ISO means "isolated post history". i was going through every players' individual posts and analyzing them. it doesn't imply i have any suspicion because i do ISOs for everyone. i'm definitely not suspicious of everyone. after analyzing those post histories i came to various conclusions and i shared my thoughts.

the rainbow lists are something i picked up on the 2+2 POG forum where the champs game series (in which Turnip Head participated) is being held. i think it's an appealing way to express reads with visual clarity, specifically because it makes it easy to show separate tiers. a flat list ordered by suspicion can also be tiered, and before picking up the rainbow concept that's what i did. i just like the rainbows.

and i don't think calling someone else a town read inherently paints them as targets. my reads are my own and nobody else has to agree with them. if everyone is calling the same people town reads that might be more meaningful and it might influence my posts accordingly. but my town reads are far from consensus. MP was under fire throughout Day 1. DDL was under fire throughout Day 1. nobody outside the RYMers knows anything about Sloonei. besides, the practice is just commonplace where i'm from. on RYM we tend to play very openly, and i am noting that people here seem to hate revealing anything. it probably stems from that "dead players can't win" rule that i've never seen on any site but this one. that's a unique standard and it has an obvious impact upon the play styles of everyone here.

Warning, this could be considered OFF TOPIC:

I personally think the ISOs and Rainbow Lists are illuminating; I had conducted ISOs from time to time in various games without knowing they were a thing, and I particularly like the latter, but I knew that either might not get the best reception from certain members of the site. I never agreed with the making a target argument; I've had this discussion with many over the years, it's just something I don't get. Some players in this community, especially those from older times/LP era (not so much those from PA that I got into the game, such as Llama), feel really strongly about holding cards to your chest, but in my opinion that's an anti-civilian playstyle if there ever was one, and I think it's much better as a civilian to lay as much out there as possible. I do understand the possible downside, but the mafia have constant BTSC, and if every civilian was completely transparent and put everything out there, we would win more games.

Like RYM, there is a civilian drought here, not quite as bad, but much more so with regards to larger games than these smaller ones, and I think it's largely due to some combination of: very unconventional games (making it harder for civilians who can't approach the game with an unconventional mindset to figure out what's going on), inactive or relatively inactive players (though this has gotten better), players who generally prefer to be mafia and are much better at it than at being a civilian (this is a big factor, IMO), and a civilian mindset that views the game from more of an individual perspective (I care if I win, I don't care if the town wins) over a group perspective, so I think that's certainly a part of it.

There's nothing inherently wrong about it, but it certainly has consequences.

Personally, I intend on making win conditions in future games that present a bit of a challenge but more so encourage a collective win than what hosts typically do (because while it is the norm, it's not universal) because I've seen that it does provide incentive for an individualistic approach to the game.

Just wanted to elaborate more on this to provide some context for you newer folks.

[Tangrowth]

RAINBOW SOCKMAN READS #4B

sanmateo -- (#1 Very slight mafia read, #2 Very slight civilian read, #3 no change) -- ELEVATE! My top town read, I feel pretty confident that he is a genuine mafia hunter this game through reading his post content in real time today.

Sloonei -- (#1 Very slight civilian read, #2 Very slight mafia read, #3 Very slight civilian read) -- ELEVATE! His mafia hunting has been top notch and seems genuine. Up he goes. Don't feel confident enough to raise him above moderate though.

JaggedJimmyJay -- (#1 Very slight civilian read, #2, #3 no change) -- ELEVATE! I was skeptical for a little while despite my initial very slight civilian read of him, and still am to a lesser extent, but Jay seems to be genuinely mafia hunting and doing what he does best. Up he goes just a bit here. Very much looking forward to his thoughts tonight. Slight read seems appropriate, since Jay is a beast, and I could still see him being bad with the Bass vote today.
Roxy -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 no change, #3 Very slight civilian read) -- ELEVATE! In #3, I said: "I want to hear more from her, but her posts thus far have been opinionated in typical Roxy fashion. Pending more contributions I can get a more solid (and accurate) read on her... hopefully (though doubtful)." Now we've heard from more her, but I look forward to hearing even more from her.

Black Rock -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 Very slight mafia read, #3 Very slight civilian read) -- In #3, I said: "BR answered my call to hear more and her subsequent contributions to the game have been in typical BR meta (she gets more active and assertive as the game progresses) and reasonable. Back up to very slightly civilian she goes." This still stands.
Dragon D. Luffy -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- DROP! Still think he reads genuine, but there's no denying that his vote makes him drop, and his fate could easily be mafia pending Epi's alignment. Appreciate that he ramped up the solid contributions though.

acrosstheaether -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: She has graced us with her presence, which appears relatively similar to RYM Day 1, in which she tends to lack confidence in any reads she may develop, so she nonchalantly does not bother to develop them, a la A Person for us Syndicate players (but perhaps not as extreme). She also said she is busy with uni which seems reasonable. I'm not sure what to make of her yet. Since she missed the vote, there is nothing to really analyze since then. This still stands.
birdwithteeth11 -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: "Seems like normal BWT and I know he is very busy. Not sure what to make of him yet." I would feel slightly better about him due to his post content, but his vote for Golden cancels it out, so I'm still not sure what to make of him.
Dom -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: "POST MORE, DOM. Dom likes to question people aggressively and often has some good insight, even if we don't often see eye to eye. In addition, in my first game ever, Dom pursued me like crazy and was right, and it started a beautiful but complicated mafia rivalry between us. I know he's capable of really contributing to this game, but I also know his life is crazy busy at the moment. So while I'm certain it's not an attempt to lay low on purpose... POST MORE." This still stands, but it seems he's been replaced by the most insane player on The Syndicate.
G-Man -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: "No idea what the hell is going on with G-Man. I really don't know if he's cursed (which would be very strange in a Day 1 before any night actions) or if he's faking it to get a Day 1 free pass (if he is, then brilliant but super risky move on his part, but it seems unlikely). So ?????????" This still stands. His vote for Golden could be sketchy though.
Metalmarsh89 -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: "MM seems to be playing in a manner that's relatively par for the course, though I'm glad to not see the self-vote this go-round. It's probably a stretch to say he "usually" self-votes but he has been known to do so out of frustration as well as to measure responses and put pressure on other players. Usually he does engage actively in discussion but can be a bit slow to develop reads; consequently, his Day 1 vote here doesn't surprise me, but I do wish he would have explained it more or withheld it to more accurately represent his feelings. I can't make heads or tails of MM yet." This largely still stands. His vote for Golden was sketchy, but then again, I could just as easily have seen civilian MM do it. Still no idea what to make of MM, thinking on it.
Turnip Head -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 Very slight civilian read, #3 no change) -- DROP! His vote for Golden is a bit sketchy, and I'm just really unsure what to make of him. Back down to null read for him.

fingersplints -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- DROP! Dropped her down to very slightly mafia read based on gut interpretation of her posts and her inability to fully substantiate reads, but I could be way off base. Having reevaluated, this is incredibly, incredibly slight.
TinyBubbles -- (#1 and #2 No read or unsure, #3 Very slight mafia read) -- In #3, I said: "She's new not only to The Syndicate but to mafia in general, so I'm trying to keep that into consideration, but the declaration of intent to random vote set of MP ALARM BELLS OF RAGE, especially given how much has happened in this game. For now, I will give her the BotD, since I do realize this game is surely intimidating for a new-to-mafia player's second game ever, especially if that first game was extremely low key. But dropping her to my very slight mafia read is a prod to get into the game." This still stands.

Bass_the_Clever -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 Very slight mafia read, #3 Slight mafia read) -- In #3, I said: "And down he goes, but only to the "slight" read level, since I'm still far from sure we're seeing a baddie Bass here. That said, I'm really putting the pressure on him now by making him my top mafia read at the moment. Good points: I feel he engaged me and the thread in what he is thinking more than he has in recent games. I hope he continues this in the future. Bad points: His throwing out my behavior as something to keep an eye on, as if to bandwagon. Not having any suspects (though this is par for the course). He finally started throwing out slight pings but only after I prodded him considerably, which lines up with meta, but makes me feel as though he's hiding something from me. He could be a civilian hiding something, but he shouldn't be, and I really want him to engage more." These feelings still stand, pending his opinions as well as Elo and Epi's alignments.

Epignosis -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 Very slight civilian read, #3 no change) -- DROP! In theory, I could still see an out on him being civilian, but only when considering meta in that he plays a very mafia-like game regardless of alignment. That said, when actually analyzing his behavior, it appears incredibly deceptive and intentionally manipulative, designed to deceive. Golden, the only confirmed civilian, who also has an amazing mafia hunting ability, also said with 100% confidence that Epi is bad. Read remains strong even though I'm not 100% convinced (instead, just strongly convinced), so being honest with myself he is just very slightly above Elo, hence the distinction.

Elohcin -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 Slight civilian read, #3 no change) -- DROP! Fixated on me all game, then suddenly had opinions on a ton of players with no explanation, including "leaning civilian" on Golden. Then continues to subtly push heat on me until I had an emotional breakdown, upon which she says that both (1) the breakdown doesn't bode well for me yet (2) votes Golden with literally no explanation. Could it get any objectively more scummy than this?


For reference:
Very strong civilian read
Strong civilian read
Moderate civilian read
Slight civilian read
Very slight civilian read
No read or unsure
Very slight mafia read
Slight mafia read
Moderate mafia read
Strong mafia read
Very strong mafia read

Dropping this here just in case I die, since I have to truly make up for lost time RL-wise. Highly doubt I'll be back before Night 1 ends. Of course, I say that now, but it's possible I'll be back anyway being the mafia addict I am. (Added just for you, Epi). :P

Sockman out!

Addendum: I moved Roxy up one segment.

Not sure I'll be back.

[fingersplints]

I don't have a problem with the rainbow lists. It does create targets, but I feel about it the same way as talking during the night creates a target on you. The mafia generally already has in mind who they want to kill.
I'm surprised Rox has that much of an issue with it. We used to do suspicions list all the time on STV. Perhaps it's that we got so much shit for it and now others are doing it and it's being praised as a good idea now lol
My problem with the rainbow list is individual to me. Half the time I post on my phone, and the other half on my husbands computer and I can't see the colors on his. So as long as you guys making the lists don't care that I'm not paying attention to them then I don't mind them being made
I understand her Golden frustration. I too am excited to see him back and am pretty disappointed he keeps getting killed early. I feel it less then her though because although he was killed early in hsk i still had a lot of time spent in our btsc with him. I was pretty upset seeing blindfaeth lynched early in another game, so I totally get that.

[Tangrowth]

Oh my god, I hate servers. I have to run SAS on a remote server and it takes forever to run a simple piece of code sometimes. I need to buy it for my own computer, but... funds of a PhD student are notoriously low.

I should just stop specifying that I don't think I'll be back, since I'm clearly beyond needing help. Hello, I am MovingPictures07, and I have a Mafia Addiction. It all started in 2010, when...

Yes, that's totally understandable. Rox, just feel free to ignore my question if you want, since I suppose that's the answer. I forgot that Golden has died early in practically every game he's played. It's probably because he's a threat; there's no doubt there was a coordinated effort to bandwagon him yesterday. I feel bad for the part I played in putting heat his way; I expected too much of him just as people expect too much of me. I suppose I just got paranoid about his baddie game since I almost never see it.

Regarding the lists, splints, that makes sense! Would you prefer I put a little heading above each section specifying the strength of the read? Or are you not going to read them anyway? :P I just think it's so much easier to communicate exactly what I'm feeling with each player, that way if I do die, no one has to be like, "9001 posts? I'm not going through that crap." and then no one will utilize the suspicions and thoughts I had, and likewise for while I'm living -- it just makes it easier to see where I'm at.

What are your thoughts on players now, splints?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Now, after I arrived to that conclusion yesterday, you have become a little more pro-active. You started going against Epi for his war on MP. That's a plus for you in terms of activity. But it isn't a really hard case to make. You are not the only person who thinks Epi's real life time calculations are pointless. I do too, and so do others. So it can be a way for you to get on an easy bandwagon, and avoid the impression that you're not being useful.

DDL acknowledges that Golden's playstyle changed later in Day 1 as Golden began to more aggressively pursue cases against Epignosis. i am not a big fan of the point DDL makes. i see this as a good reason for him to re-think his Golden read, but instead he simply rearranges his mindset to allow for Golden's shift to remain suspicious behavior in his eyes. that is the definition of tunneling. he wanted to see something from Golden, saw it, and then criticized him for it anyway. with this observation in mind, i am forced to decide whether i feel this was more likely to be a mistake by a townie or a deliberate pursuit of a mislynch by a mafia -- and i lean slightly to the former.

Guess I'll have to explain that. You are right, I did tunnel hard on Golden. I decided he was my main suspect Wednesday night, and then I spent the next morning (where I was in a 5 hours bus trip which means I couldn't go into the computer but had a lot of time to think), working on my case on him, and how I'd write my final post. You may have noticed that my final wall of texts in the phase followed a progressive logic, because I was following a checklist of things I wanted to do before the phase ended.

When I arrived, I looked at Golden's recent posts to see if anything had changed. I did notice his suspicions of Epi which threw doubt in my own theory. But I had pretty much decided to vote Golden unless a huge case against that appeared. And it was perfectly possible that Golden might be going after an easy target in order to prove me wrong. Like, since people are accusing him of not engaging, he might as well engage someone who is already being called out on his bullshit by others. Knowing that possibility, I considered the Epi thing not big enough to invalidate my theory, and went for it.

Had there been more time left in the phase, I'd have likely put Golden back in the "likely scummy" shelf and went after other targets before reaching a conclusion. Such as Bass, who was my next suspect (and is still a big one). But I suppose at that point I was so determined to prove my points right that I'd rather follow my theory till the end than jump on someone else's theory. Specially since jumping on some other lynch and watching it flip town while my main suspect lived would make me feel pretty stupid.

Sorry, I'll try not to make this mistake again.

Anyway, will talk about my suspicions on the next few posts.

[Epignosis]

3J: I don't care to spend much time defending myself. People can read. If they agree with your interpretation of my posts, they can vote for me. If they don't, they can vote elsewhere. I have better things to do than play D.

Roxy: I didn't purposely upset anyone. I tried to mitigate the upset feelings multiple times without revealing my ruse, only to see those attempts backfire. I said why I voted for Golden. Twice.

[acrosstheaether]

lmao how did we not lynch Epi today

[Epignosis]

lmao how did you not vote today

[birdwithteeth11]

birdwithteeth11 -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: "Seems like normal BWT and I know he is very busy. Not sure what to make of him yet." I would feel slightly better about him due to his post content, but his vote for Golden cancels it out, so I'm still not sure what to make of him.

Ummmm...I didn't vote for Golden?

I voted for Bass.

Also, RIP Golden. When I get a chance, I'm going to go back and read how that lynch went down. Something about it smells fishy to me.

[sanmateo]

lmao how did we not lynch Epi today

when is the last time you were scum on rym?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Pretty sure it was #79/Inception, sanmateo.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What's standard procedure around here for prolonged absence?

Because Dom

[Epignosis]

Dom has been replaced by Vompatti.

[thellama73]

Dom has been replaced by Vompatti.

He sure has. Have fun with Vomps!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Oh, cool. Hi Vompatti.

[Marmot]

How do people feel about the other two players (MP and Bass) who received multiple votes, in the wake of Golden's lynch?

I don't know what to feel about MovingPictures07. One point he was yelling at Epignosis that he was a bullshitter and a manipulator, but an hour later, with his confidence at level 42, he's been shouting for Elohcin's lynch (along with Epignosis's).

Golden's flip has made me reconsider Epignosis, since Golden was also asking for his lynch.

As for Bass, he seems different to me. He could be bad, I suppose, but I don't feel confident enough to vote for him.

[Marmot]

can someone say which 4 players missed the vote? i still get a bunch of names confused

idk if it happens here but in rym a lot of times the scum skips a vote in order to avoid suspicion

I think I must have missed the vote, I have been busy last day or so, and my tablet doesn't show times, can we please get a timer for the next vote? So sorry guys, it wasn't intentional. Also I'm astonished there are already 20+ pages for only day1! How do you keep with it?! I haven't read all, I assume golden has been lynched? If so its a shame! He is not who I was expecting, but does talk a lot so maybe that has something to do with it. I remember in the last game he was repeatedly voted for being talkative.

That's unfortunate.

What time zone do you live in? Perhaps the time the lynch ends (which is actually posted in the poll itself, but you might not be able to see that either) can be posted for you.

[Marmot]

I know this has been said a couple of times, but I want to reiterate that if I am not included on a PM about a Night action/production/selling it will not go in my spreadsheet and I cannot guarantee that you will benefit from its effects, so to maximize efficiency (like all good economists) make sure my lovely name is in your PM "to" field.

Thank you!

Regarding the "resources".

Does each player gain one gun and one butter on a nightly basis? Is that how that works?

[Epignosis]

I know this has been said a couple of times, but I want to reiterate that if I am not included on a PM about a Night action/production/selling it will not go in my spreadsheet and I cannot guarantee that you will benefit from its effects, so to maximize efficiency (like all good economists) make sure my lovely name is in your PM "to" field.

Thank you!

Regarding the "resources".

Does each player gain one gun and one butter on a nightly basis? Is that how that works?

You have to pick one or the other to produce.

Stop expecting handouts from the government.

[thellama73]

I know this has been said a couple of times, but I want to reiterate that if I am not included on a PM about a Night action/production/selling it will not go in my spreadsheet and I cannot guarantee that you will benefit from its effects, so to maximize efficiency (like all good economists) make sure my lovely name is in your PM "to" field.

Thank you!

Regarding the "resources".

Does each player gain one gun and one butter on a nightly basis? Is that how that works?

You have to pick one or the other to produce.

Stop expecting handouts from the government.

Correct. Each player either produces or sells. If you produce guns, you get one gun. If you produce butter, you get one butter. Selling prices are determined by the business cycle and scertain role powers.

[Marmot]

I know this has been said a couple of times, but I want to reiterate that if I am not included on a PM about a Night action/production/selling it will not go in my spreadsheet and I cannot guarantee that you will benefit from its effects, so to maximize efficiency (like all good economists) make sure my lovely name is in your PM "to" field.

Thank you!

Regarding the "resources".

Does each player gain one gun and one butter on a nightly basis? Is that how that works?

You have to pick one or the other to produce.

Stop expecting handouts from the government.

I am a student who goes to school on grants. Do you know how much butter that could by me?

[Vompatti]

O hai.

[Marmot]

I also think Lists (Rainbow Lists included) are a pile of bad bologna.

And how many times has MovingPictures07 used the word transparent this game?

Linki: Hi Vompsssies

[Marmot]

I know this has been said a couple of times, but I want to reiterate that if I am not included on a PM about a Night action/production/selling it will not go in my spreadsheet and I cannot guarantee that you will benefit from its effects, so to maximize efficiency (like all good economists) make sure my lovely name is in your PM "to" field.

Thank you!

Regarding the "resources".

Does each player gain one gun and one butter on a nightly basis? Is that how that works?

You have to pick one or the other to produce.

Stop expecting handouts from the government.

I am a student who goes to school on grants. Do you know how much butter that could by me?

EBWOP: buy, not by.

[Marmot]

Are we allowed to discuss items in the game thread?

[Vompatti]

Have I understood correctly if I assume everyone either produces or sells one (1) item each night?

[Vompatti]

I mean don't guns and butter generally require some special skills and/or tools to produce? If everyone could produce guns and butter, wouldn't everyone do it?

[Marmot]

#1

Golden -- (previously No read or unsure) -- It is interesting that I am on the same page as Turnip Head here, but as I simmered on thoughts during class, I also came to the conclusion that Golden is hiding something. He certainly is not seemingly transparent with all of his thoughts, or at least that's the impression I'm getting. The fact that he has refused to substantiate his opinions and analyze in his super-Golden-lawyer mode is disconcerting. Obviously this is still a "slight" read, but I need Golden to come in here and alleviate some concerns.

In MovingPictures07's first painbow, he puts Golden in the golden category, and makes a strange observation on him, but uses the word transparent, and accuses Golden of not being so. Apparently, not being transparent is baddie behavior.



#2

I think Golden's description of his meta is somewhat inaccurate, but that's just me. I agree that he doesn't do lists or anything like that, but I do think he engages multiple players more than he lets on; other than that, it seems accurate from what I've seen.

That said, I don't understand why a mafia Golden would fail to meet his meta.

I think his reasons for his somewhat subdued play so far are legit; surely there are others that have contributed less than he has.

Nonetheless, I can't help but doubt him at the moment.

My biggest problem with you is that I've been gunning for DDL hard and you haven't said a word about it: Not a thing that I've noticed beyond a vague generality in your "rainbow post" (which looked more like a sack of shit than a rainbow, but carry on).

What do you mean I haven't said a word about it?

I feel I've been transparent with my thoughts about DDL. I still lean toward him being genuine. None of your points have persuaded me otherwise.

So MovingPictures07 defends himself from an Epignosis accusation. Remember, this is the post that Epignosis made his Bean Dip Case on.

Also, notice in the inner quote from MovingPictures07, regarding Golden, MovingPictures07 accepts that Golden's "reasons for his somewhat subdued play so far are legit".



#3

What do you mean I haven't said a word about it?

I feel I've been transparent with my thoughts about DDL. I still lean toward him being genuine. None of your points have persuaded me otherwise.

Can you link me? I'm lazy.

You mean to a specific instance? It's possible you've misunderstood me. I have not addressed your comments specifically, but whenever I have stated my thoughts on players, I believe I have been transparent in my slight civilian read of him.

I have been mulling over your posts as you've made them, but as of now, I haven't felt I've had anything to contribute.

10 minutes after the previous instance, MovingPictures07 stands by his "transparent" read of Dragon D. Luffy. Apparently, since MovingPictures07 has acknowledged that the posts do not exist somewhere, then we must infer his read through the thread to notice that his read of Dragon D. Luffy is obvious.



#4

I believe I've defended myself against the points raised against me, so I really don't feel like harping on any of that conversation, but I don't feel I've adequately expanded upon all aspects of my defense. Consequently, one final set of statements:

Epi, if you really think I'm lying about RL, go for it, man. Vote for me. I realize that people lie about RL. I DO NOT lie about RL. Ever. It just doesn't happen. Every time I'm on this site I'm almost always multitasking it (usually poorly) with 100 other things. Was I actively working on my paper in those 20 minutes? No. Hence why I said "working" in quotes. I thought it was clear. I was telling myself that I've been multitasking it but obviously other things drew my attention. And yes, with this SAS class I've had a very irregular eating schedule, so I did have bean dip for "dinner". I also have been having CLIF bars for lunch and eating at random times throughout the day. I am sorry you felt as though I didn't comment on your DDL points. It's because you always question people this way when you catch onto something. Sometimes I comment. Other times I don't and just let you do your thing if I have literally nothing to add. I had literally nothing to add other than "I disagree" and I thought I had already made that clear.

sanmateo, I understand why you think that statement looks like buddying, but I don't understand why you would consider a vote for me over DDL at this point when at many previous instances you seemed to think DDL was clearly fucking with you. I find this noteworthy. Anyway, I do buddy to players when I'm mafia but I'm terrible at it, and if you really think I'm worthy of your vote, I can't stop you. I like to be as absolutely transparent as possible and I always want to make it clear how I stand on everything so I was amending thoughts that Jay had said with what I believed was a more accurate statement. I also wanted to make it clear to Jay that I didn't understand why he was leaving me out of the train of thought and, being a bit perturbed and also baiting to see if he'd react a certain way to me, said it in a blunt fashion to catch his attention.

I've been updating my Rainbow List, hopefully I can get it up before my class.

The following morning, MovingPictures07 makes a large response to the previous day's events, again calling himself transparent.



#5

In fact, Elo's train of thought is one of the most lack transparent I've ever seen. It can be characteristic for her, and I mislynched her like the first three games we played together, but I'm feeling pretty confident now that occam's razor explanation suggests that she has been fabricating her thoughts.

MovingPictures07 accuses Elohcin of lacking transparency. Yup, everyone must voice all opinions of all players to not be in trouble this game. Heck, even if you are mafia, if you are transparent, you must be okay by MovingPictures07.



#6

Bye Golden this site hates people who return after long absences - Idk why. (1)

I knew he was civ and am so surprised MP did not immediately feel the same. (2)
I also wish others. who know him better would have spoke out more.

Epi - what kind of game are you playing that you purposely upset a player to the point of them getting upset irl? What was the point of it? What was up with your vote? (3)

Jimmy jj- I quoted what I did bc I found you suspicious for posting that we should appreciate you more bc of your new role. ofc you would say that - everyone would but for me it is the fact you have to qualify yourself with that statement. (4)

TH - your Golden vote and subsequent reasoning was so shady. When I read your elaboration fr your vote it read like it was something you came up with bc you needed something to explain your vote. I knew that new players would listen you and MP but I thought they would be able to see through that charade of a vote. (5)

Bass - I found MP and his back and forth quite funny. I get why MP questioned you and pressed you for some suspicions (I do the same thing to DP) what I don't get is why after that MP would say that you are playing different and posting more. lmao! I guess MP forgot you posted more bc you were answering his questions. I thought your responses felt genuine and a little forced bc you. do not normally play this way. (6)

Elo - I can add nothing that others have not already said. I will say you do often have weird votes and that I have wrongly lynched you for it a few times. but damn gurl your vote for Golden felt REALLY weird.

As usual, you and I don't see eye to eye in certain respects, but we definitely do in others. In fact, it makes me feel better about you, but let me address some things here.

(1) Why did you say that? That's just untrue. No one voted out Golden because he's coming back from a long return. What purpose did this comment serve? I understand you're upset about losing a valuable asset, since we all know Golden is an amazing civilian, as am I, but I don't understand why you said this.

(2) My thoughts on Golden were transparent, I said for quite some time that there was something "off" about him, and that I did fear he was holding something back, but by the time I started really thinking he was civilian, he had 5+ votes.

(3) Now on THIS we can agree.

(4) This is interesting, but given your and Jay's subsequent conversation, I'm not sure I see it. Is there anything else that's bothered you about Jay? I'm still getting relatively good vibes from him.

(5) Is TH your top suspect? Who are your suspects?

(6) This is exactly NOT what I said. MM thought the same thing:

No worries, Jay!

MM, what do you mean you agree with me about Bass? In what regard?

His behavior seems different. He is posting more this game than I am accustomed to. But as I also said, he has been doing so in Flash Mafia, so this incident is not isolated.

On a more personal note, Bass asked me about my suspicions. I was thrown off a little by this. When I play with Bass, the only times he seems to talk to or discuss me is when he is saying I am bad and I should be lynched, or the very occasional civilian read of me. Of course, he is usually right.

Oh, you misunderstood. I didn't say he was acting different this game; I was entertaining a hypothetical condition in order to demonstrate a point he was making about ME acting differently.

Yes, that said, he has been more engaged this game than I have seen in recent memory halfway through Day 1's.

What do you think of him? Bad, civilian, what?

The one game that stands out in my mind was Dr.Who where you went after Zeek super hard and that was his first game on the syndicate.

LOL, yes, fair enough. But consider the following:

What if I genuinely don't suspect any of the new players?

Then it's fine I was just pointing out I agreed with splints that you were playing different then I have seen in the past. If I started to play different like if I started to posting a lot and I started pulling quotes would you not think something was up? Would you not want to watch me more closely?

I'd definitely think your behavior is different, but recognize that there could be many factors playing into your change of pace, including an influx of RL availability, or perhaps a desire to switch up your game for various possible reasons, etc.

Do you think I'm bad?

Bass asked me a hypothetical, so I answered it with "I'd" as in I would think it's different. I didn't say it was different this game.

Apparently, it was confusing, so that's my bad.

MovingPictures07's thoughts on Golden are transparent. He also accused Golden early on of not being transparent. I will have to look into MovingPictures07's thoughts again, because I don't recall them being particularly transparent.

#7

ISO means "isolated post history". i was going through every players' individual posts and analyzing them. it doesn't imply i have any suspicion because i do ISOs for everyone. i'm definitely not suspicious of everyone. after analyzing those post histories i came to various conclusions and i shared my thoughts.

the rainbow lists are something i picked up on the 2+2 POG forum where the champs game series (in which Turnip Head participated) is being held. i think it's an appealing way to express reads with visual clarity, specifically because it makes it easy to show separate tiers. a flat list ordered by suspicion can also be tiered, and before picking up the rainbow concept that's what i did. i just like the rainbows.

and i don't think calling someone else a town read inherently paints them as targets. my reads are my own and nobody else has to agree with them. if everyone is calling the same people town reads that might be more meaningful and it might influence my posts accordingly. but my town reads are far from consensus. MP was under fire throughout Day 1. DDL was under fire throughout Day 1. nobody outside the RYMers knows anything about Sloonei. besides, the practice is just commonplace where i'm from. on RYM we tend to play very openly, and i am noting that people here seem to hate revealing anything. it probably stems from that "dead players can't win" rule that i've never seen on any site but this one. that's a unique standard and it has an obvious impact upon the play styles of everyone here.

Warning, this could be considered OFF TOPIC:

I personally think the ISOs and Rainbow Lists are illuminating; I had conducted ISOs from time to time in various games without knowing they were a thing, and I particularly like the latter, but I knew that either might not get the best reception from certain members of the site. I never agreed with the making a target argument; I've had this discussion with many over the years, it's just something I don't get. Some players in this community, especially those from older times/LP era (not so much those from PA that I got into the game, such as Llama), feel really strongly about holding cards to your chest, but in my opinion that's an anti-civilian playstyle if there ever was one, and I think it's much better as a civilian to lay as much out there as possible. I do understand the possible downside, but the mafia have constant BTSC, and if every civilian was completely transparent and put everything out there, we would win more games.

Like RYM, there is a civilian drought here, not quite as bad, but much more so with regards to larger games than these smaller ones, and I think it's largely due to some combination of: very unconventional games (making it harder for civilians who can't approach the game with an unconventional mindset to figure out what's going on), inactive or relatively inactive players (though this has gotten better), players who generally prefer to be mafia and are much better at it than at being a civilian (this is a big factor, IMO), and a civilian mindset that views the game from more of an individual perspective (I care if I win, I don't care if the town wins) over a group perspective, so I think that's certainly a part of it.

There's nothing inherently wrong about it, but it certainly has consequences.

Personally, I intend on making win conditions in future games that present a bit of a challenge but more so encourage a collective win than what hosts typically do (because while it is the norm, it's not universal) because I've seen that it does provide incentive for an individualistic approach to the game.

Just wanted to elaborate more on this to provide some context for you newer folks.

And here (in this "off-topic" post) MovingPictures07 offers a lengthy defense to his strategy this game, claiming that transparency is the key to success. Alrighty then.

[Marmot]

I mean don't guns and butter generally require some special skills and/or tools to produce? If everyone could produce guns and butter, wouldn't everyone do it?

I don't think butter requires special skills, just a little knowledge, and some cream I think.

As for guns, well since thellama73 is willing to make some guns for you for free, you could certainly take advantage of this unique opportunity.

[Turnip Head]

@Metalmarsh ^^ So what you're saying is, MP used the word "transparent" 7 times in 218 posts.