Fallout New Vegas: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [LEGION CONQUEST]

[Jackofhearts2005]

Good afternoon

How are we doing?

The entirety of Creature’s D2. The easiest of extra points.

[Manny]

Tell me about Creature's position, and my position.

I think Creature is out of wolfrange, not much more to it than that, i could be being fooled but i see no reason to doubt my read on him rn.
I think your post scumreading me is pretty townie and in general ur replies to Brad feel fine.
And i stopped thinking u and brad were a diffcheck the second i realized brad didnt actually think u were a wolf and just wanted to kill u for being annoying, im now leaning v/v.

[Manny]

The entirety of Creature’s D2. The easiest of extra points.

maybe i should actually have reasons to doubt my read but i kinda dont want to this game is alr annoying enough in my brain without considering worlds of w!Creature.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Falcon has also fallen off a cliff

[Chelsea]

I've asked you numerous questions which I think are all fair and can create positive discussion between us. You haven't responded at all. I'm not sure why.

Can you please respond to my posts? All three of these have gone unanswered:

I believe I've answered the second question a bit ago, as for the other ones:

1) While Falcon and Tony at that point in time just felt like throwing darts and picking a read, I saw some conviction and sway in your posts, even if there wasn't a lot it was enough that I didn't like the direction you were going with it. You believe you're firmly in your town meta? Why are you so towny that the play you're displaying can't be from a wolf?

3) I see parts of Brad's wolf meta, but with the way Brad is playing if he's a wolf X is happening and quite frankly he's never won when X is happening so I'm perfectly fine to let that go through. I just think he's town though and going out in a blaze of glory. I understand why people would vote that for game sake but yeah.

1) Do you associate conviction with wolfing? What posts are these bad posts? I'd be happy to engage with you on it, but this doesn't give me enough to know what direction you're talking about or where to start.

I don't think it's even a meta thing, I believe I am starting to bleed objective towniness. The easiest way you're likely to see it is to engage with me (for example on exactly what you were seeing earlier) to see my purity of thought. If you'd like specifics though, I believe the nuance of thought I've given on topics, especially recently, but starting pretty much D2, is more-or-less exactly what you were saying about LanMisa, and I believe I am one of the people showing the most interest in pushing the game forward positively for pretty much this entire day phase.

3) What is "X" here? If you mean to say that wolf!Brad never wins, that isn't true. Have you ever seen notes of wolf!Brad in a town!Brad game? if so, can you provide some detail/evidence?

1) No, but conviction can be read and results can be drawn to it. If people made a read on Falcon and Tony previously regardless of what the result is I wouldn't have believed it was strong. You on the other hand I would've understood because there's more to it to discuss. I don't recall saying your posts are bad, so I cannot point you to what you're asking. You're wanting to know what I took issue with so I would be fine voting you, right?

The posts aren't "bad" there's a flow and a direction to them that I simply did not like. You know, when you look at something and ask what's weird and you just go based on the sense. I am curious though you think 'objective towniness' exists, does that mean 'objective wolfiness' exists? Even if I push aside my own opinion that those terms don't exist, you've basically given a checklist on what you expect a villager to do.

So why can't those methods apply to yourself? Are you trying to tell me your wolfgame is so bad that you just can't play like the way you have?

3) I am saying if Brad is a wolf, he's making a play. A play I've seen him do before and haven't won with such a play. Basically he's dying for his teammates to benefit the most off of. Do I think that's what's happening? No, I think he's just town. Of course I've seen hints of his wolf game in his town game. If you cannot see vice versa in either game then by example you're saying a player is so blatantly wolfy and or towny that they're to be cleared.

1) You were talking about ME having conviction, not people having conviction about me. You specifically said:

Spoiler: show

[stuff deleted by Seanzie to shorten post]

I think Sean and Scotty have had bad posts in general. Does that explain it?

. Not really what I was asking, but sure, explaining this would be a good start. You did say my posts were bad, now you're saying my posts aren't bad, but you don't like the flow. In any of the cases, you still haven't really said which posts. I need you to meet me halfway if we want to have a productive discussion.

I don't think us engaging on mafia philosophy is at all helpful in either of us reading the other. I believe how I've been playing recently is very townie. You can tinfoil it, or say that it is possible I could still be a wolf, but that is not productive. If you disagree, we can talk about it (that IS productive), but a question like this does not do anything for the game.

3) Can you provide some evidence of a game where you played against town!Brad and saw some of wolf!Brad in his play? Perhaps a link to a game, and a sentence or two about what he was doing in that game that you thought was wolf!Brad?

-------------------------
You're bringing up good philosophical points, but it is making so that your answers often avoid talking about this game. I'd like to understand things like WHAT YOUR READ ON ME IS BASED ON, and things like YOURS AND BRADS HISTORY, to understand the current game and I am asking pointed questions to get to the bottom of these things. I feel like I am just repeating the previous questions because they were not answered, and instead I got back a bunch of generic "does objective towniness exist?" and "Doesn't everyone always show notes of towniness and scumminess?"

Let me get this out of the way: Any question I ask is because it helps me with my read on a player. When I sit down and try to post seriously I tend to try and avoid asking questions I consider pointless. So while you might not see the value in it. I see it for myself. Help me so I can help you in return.


1) You barely had any posts at the time before you started to become active. Apparently I did use the word bad, flow is a better word that isn't generalized. I think an even better way to put it was looking at Tony/you/Falcon side by side I didn't see why people would wolfread them, but I did see it when I looked at your iso.(Sidenote isoing on this site is such a pain in the ass)

I don't think my question to you was philosophy. The fact is that you believe objective towniness exists. So if you're so well aware of it exists what stops you from applying it to a wolf game. You show me these actions you've taken that are so objectively towny but you're missing the important part on why.

Could is never as important as Why when it comes to mafia.

3) I can throw a mash game or two and show that Brad does wolfy stuff as town (and you could also look yourself) can I ask what you're wanting to get out of this though because I think we can skip the middle man.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Tell me about Creature's position, and my position.

I think Creature is out of wolfrange, not much more to it than that, i could be being fooled but i see no reason to doubt my read on him rn.
I think your post scumreading me is pretty townie and in general ur replies to Brad feel fine.
And i stopped thinking u and brad were a diffcheck the second i realized brad didnt actually think u were a wolf and just wanted to kill u for being annoying, im now leaning v/v.

lol imagine that being true

[Jackofhearts2005]

Eyes glazing over at Chelsea post. Where’s the good news part?

[Chelsea]

Eyes glazing over at Chelsea post. Where’s the good news part?

Scotty probably isn't a villager. :^)

[Jackofhearts2005]

Chelsea trending up (not even counting that last post). Many trending down. Stonks.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'd like to talk to your manager smh

Nanook is trending in a perfectly straight line

[Jackofhearts2005]

How dare you recruit me for a game, I try solving with you twice and I GET THE SHRUG.JPG BOTH TIMES.

Hey its not my fault i have now permanent paranoia with u due to u not finding me V on d1
and my brain now considering worlds of w!Brad w!You just by virtue of Mac sr'ing Brad temporarily even though he kinda backed off from that read.

Its okay queen i'd self-vote for u to make u happy but thats against the rules so u are STUCK with me for better or worse.

Bleh.

[LanMisa]

Bleh

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

In that case vote goes here.

@Chelsea @Manny @LanMisa @Scotty @Jackofhearts2005

Okay new direction.

If y'all have any reason to townread him, please tell me why.

If you don't townread him, please vote here.

For what it's worth I saw your string of posts about your outrage towards Mac and it felt emotionally believable, the posts prior to this one. I am leaning you town now but I am still unsure if you staying in a game that causes you lots of rage is good for your state of mind.

Answering the question, I had a rather good interaction with Long Con at the end of D1 where Long Con was a null prior to this. It felt natural, like we were actively trying to figure each other out in a believable way. Now I HAVE been snowed by personal interactions before (High KP game being at the very front where I spared a wolf and never suspected the final one either due to likeability factor) but it's not somewhere I am willing to go right now.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Is Scotty/Manny/Creature viable?

[LanMisa]

Eyes glazing over at Chelsea post. Where’s the good news part?

Scotty probably isn't a villager. :^)

Unless you have mechanical evidence for that stance I will keep hard debunking this for as long as I am part of the game.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Or maybe Falcon over Creature.

[LanMisa]

Okay. So I went from "players I don't explicitly townread" list, to "everyone come on, vote Long Con!!" without a single reason why. It's like you just picked a name from your list and just *decided* to try and get a wagon started.

I think you're done here, other LC. [VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine

I get that sentiment but I am leaning towards Lime being on a towny mental breakdown rather than a wolfy one.

[Manny]

Is Scotty/Manny/Creature viable?

lol, id never shield both of my partners as wolf ever.

[Lime Coke]

Bleh

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

In that case vote goes here.

@Chelsea @Manny @LanMisa @Scotty @Jackofhearts2005

Okay new direction.

If y'all have any reason to townread him, please tell me why.

If you don't townread him, please vote here.

For what it's worth I saw your string of posts about your outrage towards Mac and it felt emotionally believable, the posts prior to this one. I am leaning you town now but I am still unsure if you staying in a game that causes you lots of rage is good for your state of mind.

Answering the question, I had a rather good interaction with Long Con at the end of D1 where Long Con was a null prior to this. It felt natural, like we were actively trying to figure each other out in a believable way. Now I HAVE been snowed by personal interactions before (High KP game being at the very front where I spared a wolf and never suspected the final one either due to likeability factor) but it's not somewhere I am willing to go right now.

Oh no you're right it isn't good for me but both spite and the fact that I have pride in my game...or at least not getting misyeeted ever and I'm avoiding that with possibly horrible results of what I'm doing.

In terms of you and Jack townreading LC... that's fine I'll sit back and let y'all have that one.

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

[LanMisa]

Interesting drop in my position but tbf i did kinda ignore ur question

Ignoring my question isn't great, but it is more a broad pattern - you're throwing out a few weak associative reads, and then doing a lot of things that look more like performance than solving (e.g. you looking for something from me and you having a townread on Falcon you won't say anything about - these things could LOOK like you're doing stuff behind the scenes, but I'm not seeing evidence of it, and I don't give points for behind the scenes work). You suggesting me vs brad as a diff check I also think was scummy. There isn't a me vs Brad. Brad isn't pushing me (he has me on his "I don't townread" list, but you can look at how he interacts with me and tell that he doesn't see scum!Seanzie, at least IMO, and Mac noticed this as well), and a reasonably large portion of the thread has Brad south-of-null. Thinking that there is still a Me vs Brad kind of suggests your worldview likely hasn't updated much since yesterday, which is not great.

If there is some reason I should have you higher, I am all ears. I'd be happy to hear from your side on these things, or just... some reads from you with reasoning (I prefer non-associative - I take almost no stock in associative reads until we see actual wolf flips) would help me figure out if you're where you belong or not.

Yeah, I feel like Seanzie is really getting their groove on right now.

[Lime Coke]

[VOTE: Nanook] aubergine

[LanMisa]

Spoiler: show

Falcon I just want to play more, it's the slot you probably want to vig shoot over exeing because there's just nothing in it. The can't make lylo player until they post well. . .any opinion. (Curious as I wasn't expecting Lime and Dunnstral to also be on here. Did Dunn's LHF clause only count for D1?)

I have Longcon as a villager because they're not wolf with Mac or Scotty and if both those slots are a villager with how high volume of their. . .confidence we're in trouble. (I think Scotty's wolf equality is pretty high though) Independent of that the convo with Lanmisa felt pretty good so yeah.

I'm not voting them for low posting, and I don't think anybody else is either.

I don't think anything in falcon's iso is an alignment initiative but perhaps I'm more lenient or have higher degree's for what I consider AI. if you think there's something I am blatantly missing let me know.

I don't like their responses. I disagree with you saying their iso is not alignment indicative.

Can you all just clear me off the NKs though because there's like no fucken world in this game where I use N1 KP on Abi or Michelle and anyone who knows me knows that is true. It's not a slight against them, they are just both entirely unlikely to ever really earnestly trouble me in the way I like to win as a wolf. My KP in this game goes on the likes of Chelsea, Brad, Scotty, Epi and especially Seanzie.

See, Mac, I really, REALLY hate posts along the lines of "this kill makes no sense to come from me!!!!!" and in the majority of cases I've seen this kind of logic come from exactly the wolf who made this kill especially to make people look the other way. Granted, most of these are from Turbo games but starting the day with this kind of angle on the subject is not a good look.

Also hi, I got a few hours before I will be physically unable to post for more or less 24 hours.

That post also bothered me.

Oh did it start?

Also is there a maximum number of posts?

Okay so I didn't actually read the gamestart prior to now but Creature asking this question is a very awkward entrance given there were posts before this and he clearly knew it was starting. This is like the definition of "I dunno what to say". Then the post cap question is like... irrelevant to him considering he ended up 42 posting so it just looks like fluff for the sake of it.

I'm not sure if you already forgot how Creature plays or if you didn't bother having a closer look at Creature's posts but there was a lot of thoughts and solving that you don't see Creature do as wolf unless being forced and dragged by the game to do so.

I really don't like your stances today, Mac. Maybe I am putting you on a pedestal here but I consider you to be a strong town player and... I don't see that here. It's a lot of weird and, in my opinion, nonsensical takes that I can't see you do as town but can see you do as a wolf trying to steer the conversation

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

Well I do think MacDougall has made it clear that they haven't read parts of the game so it is believable that they didn't see any of that.

Also Chelsea is just mafia. Which means Brad is also mafia. So Lan is honestly probably just in damage control pushing me.

Uh... I don't like posts like this and it doesn't seem similar to what I was liking from you near day start.

Mac's slot will self-resolve at this point






Either he's alive past D3 cuz he's a wolf, or he's gonna get shot

I don't agree with this.

Low-key worried that Mac is deliberately playing into my suspicions (at least partly), but meh... that's a D3 problem if I've ever seen one.

I don't know what this means but I probably don't agree with it. In general I don't think mafia deliberately play around certain players as often as people speculate, instead focusing more broadly on staying alive.

Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted

I'm not sure if this is a real opinion. What are you expecting from me if I am town?

Do you think Michelle and Neon were NK'd cuz their reads were spot on?

I think they were nightkilled because they were widely townread and active.

Refresh me on your Epi wolfread Manny?

They have a grand total of 0 townie or productive posts.
ngl i wouldnt be shocked if they still flip town anyways but i see no point in not resolving the slot.

I sort of agree with this.

2. Yes, but w/ varying degrees of accuracy, as it can be difficult for ourselves to actually understand our own meta.



2A. That's exactly my point



2B. No

Hey you're the person who asked me for how I play as town. Why do so if you think it can't be trusted?

Ur mafia because when I dropped my poe Brad decided to go immediately into wifom antispew townreading you which is how wolf mac treats wolf teammates.

Wait hold the fucking phone.

Where the fuck did this come from?

Where in the blue hell did I townread Long Con?

I literally checked my iso to make sure because I actually don't remember townreading him, and I'm right I never expressed a townread.

Mac legit is lying out of his ass.

This dude's fucking mafia.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

@Chelsea @Manny @LanMisa @Scotty @Jackofhearts2005

Get on let's fucking go.

Well this seems like a towny reaction although as pointed out soon after misguided

Fair warning, the spoiler is HUGE and contains three posts from Dunnstral that are more or less back-to-back good posts which I really like. Combs the game, Dunn's reactions feel insightful as well, these are just pretty good posts.

Dunn may be town now, I guess I am starting to see Scotty's "locktown or deepwolf" stance (or rather the first part of it).

[Creature]

Good afternoon

How are we doing?

The entirety of Creature’s D2. The easiest of extra points.

Yeah I spent almost the entirety of the game playing another game in MU and then I had college the last two days and this morning

[Creature]

rn I have free time but I am so disengaged I'll prob be asking what is happening mostly

[Creature]

[VOTE: NANOOK] aubergine

I don't get the Lime Coke wagon

I thought he would be easily townread here?

[LanMisa]

pretty serious on the chelsea vote tbh

I'm sure that you have a long explanation for that one stance that you seem to have?

Like, with all of that insightful analysis you gave here it's...challenging to figure out why you came to that conclusion and how much merit it has.

[Lime Coke]

[VOTE: NANOOK] aubergine

I don't get the Lime Coke wagon

I thought he would be easily townread here?

Well the main one leading the charge is Mac so... you'd understand.

[Seanzie]

I've asked you numerous questions which I think are all fair and can create positive discussion between us. You haven't responded at all. I'm not sure why.

Can you please respond to my posts? All three of these have gone unanswered:

I believe I've answered the second question a bit ago, as for the other ones:

1) While Falcon and Tony at that point in time just felt like throwing darts and picking a read, I saw some conviction and sway in your posts, even if there wasn't a lot it was enough that I didn't like the direction you were going with it. You believe you're firmly in your town meta? Why are you so towny that the play you're displaying can't be from a wolf?

3) I see parts of Brad's wolf meta, but with the way Brad is playing if he's a wolf X is happening and quite frankly he's never won when X is happening so I'm perfectly fine to let that go through. I just think he's town though and going out in a blaze of glory. I understand why people would vote that for game sake but yeah.

1) Do you associate conviction with wolfing? What posts are these bad posts? I'd be happy to engage with you on it, but this doesn't give me enough to know what direction you're talking about or where to start.

I don't think it's even a meta thing, I believe I am starting to bleed objective towniness. The easiest way you're likely to see it is to engage with me (for example on exactly what you were seeing earlier) to see my purity of thought. If you'd like specifics though, I believe the nuance of thought I've given on topics, especially recently, but starting pretty much D2, is more-or-less exactly what you were saying about LanMisa, and I believe I am one of the people showing the most interest in pushing the game forward positively for pretty much this entire day phase.

3) What is "X" here? If you mean to say that wolf!Brad never wins, that isn't true. Have you ever seen notes of wolf!Brad in a town!Brad game? if so, can you provide some detail/evidence?

1) No, but conviction can be read and results can be drawn to it. If people made a read on Falcon and Tony previously regardless of what the result is I wouldn't have believed it was strong. You on the other hand I would've understood because there's more to it to discuss. I don't recall saying your posts are bad, so I cannot point you to what you're asking. You're wanting to know what I took issue with so I would be fine voting you, right?

The posts aren't "bad" there's a flow and a direction to them that I simply did not like. You know, when you look at something and ask what's weird and you just go based on the sense. I am curious though you think 'objective towniness' exists, does that mean 'objective wolfiness' exists? Even if I push aside my own opinion that those terms don't exist, you've basically given a checklist on what you expect a villager to do.

So why can't those methods apply to yourself? Are you trying to tell me your wolfgame is so bad that you just can't play like the way you have?

3) I am saying if Brad is a wolf, he's making a play. A play I've seen him do before and haven't won with such a play. Basically he's dying for his teammates to benefit the most off of. Do I think that's what's happening? No, I think he's just town. Of course I've seen hints of his wolf game in his town game. If you cannot see vice versa in either game then by example you're saying a player is so blatantly wolfy and or towny that they're to be cleared.

1) You were talking about ME having conviction, not people having conviction about me. You specifically said:

Spoiler: show

[stuff deleted by Seanzie to shorten post]

I think Sean and Scotty have had bad posts in general. Does that explain it?

. Not really what I was asking, but sure, explaining this would be a good start. You did say my posts were bad, now you're saying my posts aren't bad, but you don't like the flow. In any of the cases, you still haven't really said which posts. I need you to meet me halfway if we want to have a productive discussion.

I don't think us engaging on mafia philosophy is at all helpful in either of us reading the other. I believe how I've been playing recently is very townie. You can tinfoil it, or say that it is possible I could still be a wolf, but that is not productive. If you disagree, we can talk about it (that IS productive), but a question like this does not do anything for the game.

3) Can you provide some evidence of a game where you played against town!Brad and saw some of wolf!Brad in his play? Perhaps a link to a game, and a sentence or two about what he was doing in that game that you thought was wolf!Brad?

-------------------------
You're bringing up good philosophical points, but it is making so that your answers often avoid talking about this game. I'd like to understand things like WHAT YOUR READ ON ME IS BASED ON, and things like YOURS AND BRADS HISTORY, to understand the current game and I am asking pointed questions to get to the bottom of these things. I feel like I am just repeating the previous questions because they were not answered, and instead I got back a bunch of generic "does objective towniness exist?" and "Doesn't everyone always show notes of towniness and scumminess?"

Let me get this out of the way: Any question I ask is because it helps me with my read on a player. When I sit down and try to post seriously I tend to try and avoid asking questions I consider pointless. So while you might not see the value in it. I see it for myself. Help me so I can help you in return.


1) You barely had any posts at the time before you started to become active. Apparently I did use the word bad, flow is a better word that isn't generalized. I think an even better way to put it was looking at Tony/you/Falcon side by side I didn't see why people would wolfread them, but I did see it when I looked at your iso.(Sidenote isoing on this site is such a pain in the ass)

I don't think my question to you was philosophy. The fact is that you believe objective towniness exists. So if you're so well aware of it exists what stops you from applying it to a wolf game. You show me these actions you've taken that are so objectively towny but you're missing the important part on why.

Could is never as important as Why when it comes to mafia.

3) I can throw a mash game or two and show that Brad does wolfy stuff as town (and you could also look yourself) can I ask what you're wanting to get out of this though because I think we can skip the middle man.

You said my posts were bad in #1216. By my count I had 52 posts before that. Granted, you were replying to #1176, so perhaps you had only read to there when you replied, but that only decreases my post count to 49. I'll ask you again (for the third time), WHICH POSTS were you referring to? All 49 of them? What "flow"? Who was I talking about in this flow? It feels like you can't name a single specific thing you based your initial read on me. If I had few posts, it should be that much easier to be specific about which ones, and what exactly you found objectionable.

To try to answer your questions (even though I do think they are philosophical, and honestly I am starting to think you're hiding behind that): When I said "objectively", I meant "without needing to reference meta". I think this question is (someone paradoxically) both too obvious to answer, and too complex to answer. Wolves have TMI, they have a different wincon, they cannot truly hold suspicions, or paranoia. I can know that a good actor should be able to cry on demand, but that doesn't mean I can cry on demand. I can know that a townie should be able to show a nuance, purity of thought, the right amount of paranoia, a combination of maliable and unmovable thoughts and progressions, etc, that doesn't mean I (or anyone) can perfectly fake these things. If you didn't believe the same thing, I'd guess you would have stopped playing mafia long ago (or maybe you're just really into playing a game where it is all just blind guessing)

3) THEN PLEASE DO! PLEASE DO THROW A MASH GAME OR TWO OUT THERE. Why are you wasting posts? Just do it. I've asked so many times. Why are you wasting my posts? Why are you wasting my time?

What I WANT is to understand your read of Brad, your progression on them, your thoughts on them. I personally think he very rarely shows strong wolf notes as town, and is often obv!town. I'd like to know your meta on Brad (what do YOU think wolf!Brad looks like, and what do YOU think town!Brad looks like?), and then I'd like to see if we can come to a common mind about Brad (one way or the other). I do not feel like you have any interest in coming to a common mind though.

[LanMisa]

The more I read the more I find people towny. Help!

Read some Chelsea posts at the bottom of page 29 that I liked and I feel like I am in the mood where I just like every post from every player that posts in a semi-coherent and reasonable way and that feels quite counter-productive.

I'm also unsure what that says about the status quo and the wolves this game. Are the wolves the people who don't try? Are the wolves very deep? Did I misread my rolecard? Was it all a lie since everyone is wolfy in some way in the Fallout games?

(Don't mind me, physical exhaustion does not make my brain go do work well stuff words meaning?)

[LanMisa]

Out of date rainbow for Seanzie

TOWN
LC
Epi (not gonna explain this one til it matters for reasons)

TOWNISH
Seanzie
Lime
Mac

NO CLUE
Dunn
Tony
Manny
Nook
Falcon
Chelsea
Creature

SCUMISH
Scotty
LanMisa


Don’t take anything but the LC and Epi reads to the bank just yet.

Even if I don't take it to the bank, can you say something about Scotty and LanMisa? These are reads that are pretty far removed from what I'd consider the thread consensus (especially the LanMisa read).

I didn’t like their long running D1 interaction. Looked fake. Looked like they weren’t trying to read each other. Don’t take it to the bank cause like they have a lot of other content I haven’t looked at.

Wait, you’re calling us scummish because we didn’t really interact D1?

The hell kinda read is that? I think I didn’t interact with you either. By that logic, you should be in the same pile

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine

Lol, I really like playing with you Scotty.

Yes, I also don't understand the method of insanity behind Jack's play so far.

[Chelsea]

It's crazy how many times I need to reword my statement because Sean can just find a creative way of not answering me that makes me want to smash my face into a wall call it town and then never speak on it again.

But maybe I should just go take lunch first.

[LanMisa]

You believe I'm a wolf, you should be asking yourself if you think wolf me hard defends my partner or I'm spewing Brad town.

im actually living in both v!chels and w!chels worlds at the same time.
If i was locked on you wolf i would be hard deathtunneling u lol.
But i feel like u not being 100% locked on a Brad read is kinda worrying but i dunno if its worrying for ur allignment or brad's

Sorry, I know I should interact/play with you more here (if only time permitted it...) but I will give you one response at least:

Would you call this Schroedinger's Chelsea?

[LanMisa]

It's crazy how many times I need to reword my statement because Sean can just find a creative way of not answering me that makes me want to smash my face into a wall call it town and then never speak on it again.

But maybe I should just go take lunch first.

I see that the two of you have an argument here but I don't feel like my brain has enough power to process it for now. Too much text, too many names. I'll try to have a look into it tomorrow and get back to it on D3.

I do still feel like many of Sean's posts since D2 started have been very deep and towny though, so if that's the point of debate this is my stance on it.

[Seanzie]

It's crazy how many times I need to reword my statement because Sean can just find a creative way of not answering me that makes me want to smash my face into a wall call it town and then never speak on it again.

But maybe I should just go take lunch first.

What? In what world is that what is going on? I answered your question to the best of my damn abilities.

On the other hand, I've asked you VERY SPECIFIC questions 1. WHICH POSTS, and 2. GIVE A GAME and you don't respond. No. Just no. If you are town here, you are being deliberately obtuse, and it is making it impossible to even try to find common ground with you. Just no.

[Chelsea]

It's crazy how many times I need to reword my statement because Sean can just find a creative way of not answering me that makes me want to smash my face into a wall call it town and then never speak on it again.

But maybe I should just go take lunch first.

I see that the two of you have an argument here but I don't feel like my brain has enough power to process it for now. Too much text, too many names. I'll try to have a look into it tomorrow and get back to it on D3.

I do still feel like many of Sean's posts since D2 started have been very deep and towny though, so if that's the point of debate this is my stance on it.

No, I've also come away from the conversation that has me moving Sean up on my reads list but it feels like I have to pull out my teeth just to get an attempt at the answer I'm looking for.

[Lime Coke]

It's crazy how many times I need to reword my statement because Sean can just find a creative way of not answering me that makes me want to smash my face into a wall call it town and then never speak on it again.

But maybe I should just go take lunch first.

I see that the two of you have an argument here but I don't feel like my brain has enough power to process it for now. Too much text, too many names. I'll try to have a look into it tomorrow and get back to it on D3.

I do still feel like many of Sean's posts since D2 started have been very deep and towny though, so if that's the point of debate this is my stance on it.

No, I've also come away from the conversation that has me moving Sean up on my reads list but it feels like I have to pull out my teeth just to get an attempt at the answer I'm looking for.

That's normal.

[Chelsea]

It's crazy how many times I need to reword my statement because Sean can just find a creative way of not answering me that makes me want to smash my face into a wall call it town and then never speak on it again.

But maybe I should just go take lunch first.

I see that the two of you have an argument here but I don't feel like my brain has enough power to process it for now. Too much text, too many names. I'll try to have a look into it tomorrow and get back to it on D3.

I do still feel like many of Sean's posts since D2 started have been very deep and towny though, so if that's the point of debate this is my stance on it.

No, I've also come away from the conversation that has me moving Sean up on my reads list but it feels like I have to pull out my teeth just to get an attempt at the answer I'm looking for.

That's normal.

Is it? Please tell me if I'm going crazy because these past few pages make me think I'm going crazy and maybe my statements are hard to read or I'm the problem but I don't feel like I am so please TELL ME IF I'M GOING CRAZY

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Manny] aubergine

[LanMisa]

Yeah, I feel like my mind needs a break. Sorry for not being at my top level right now. I'll try to get back in two hours or three, will definitely be back at some point.

I am not sure what the staleness of both NANOOK's and Lime's wagons means for us. It's hard to believe we got so lucky and found two wolves at the same time. I'm not a fan of it after we sleepyeeted into Sig (I know I was part of it, I am not happy about it) and I wonder if we are doing the same thing again.

I also wonder why pressuring NANOOK found so many fans whereas TSP also ditched us and got no flak so far including that very insightful one-liner I cited earlier. I hope it's not just because people sheep me; if they do I want the people who know my meta to remind others that me being town is also equivalent to me being wrong. If people have thoughts about Tony I'd love to hear them.

While I still think that Creature's D1 speaks for itself I am not as whelmed by the D2, the few posts looked good by themselves but... I wish there was more volume, I guess? Still would never go for Creature today.

Dunn, Sean, Scotty all feel reasonably towny from today (and/or yesterday), Creature and Long Con feel towny from yesterday, Chelsea I have a similar read on compared to the latter two but weaker. Falcon seemed semi reasonable earlier in direct conversation but it's very light and not something I consider unfakeable, it wasn't on the level of my Long Con interactions by a mile, for example.

I won't vote for Mac today either since I don't trust my judgement right now.

Will be back with more thinking later.

[LanMisa]

It's crazy how many times I need to reword my statement because Sean can just find a creative way of not answering me that makes me want to smash my face into a wall call it town and then never speak on it again.

But maybe I should just go take lunch first.

I see that the two of you have an argument here but I don't feel like my brain has enough power to process it for now. Too much text, too many names. I'll try to have a look into it tomorrow and get back to it on D3.

I do still feel like many of Sean's posts since D2 started have been very deep and towny though, so if that's the point of debate this is my stance on it.

No, I've also come away from the conversation that has me moving Sean up on my reads list but it feels like I have to pull out my teeth just to get an attempt at the answer I'm looking for.

In that case I will leave it for tomorrowLan to read. Sunday's also a day and I feel like I can use my time in a more meaningful way later.

[Seanzie]

It's crazy how many times I need to reword my statement because Sean can just find a creative way of not answering me that makes me want to smash my face into a wall call it town and then never speak on it again.

But maybe I should just go take lunch first.

I see that the two of you have an argument here but I don't feel like my brain has enough power to process it for now. Too much text, too many names. I'll try to have a look into it tomorrow and get back to it on D3.

I do still feel like many of Sean's posts since D2 started have been very deep and towny though, so if that's the point of debate this is my stance on it.

No, I've also come away from the conversation that has me moving Sean up on my reads list but it feels like I have to pull out my teeth just to get an attempt at the answer I'm looking for.

That's normal.

Is it? Please tell me if I'm going crazy because these past few pages make me think I'm going crazy and maybe my statements are hard to read or I'm the problem but I don't feel like I am so please TELL ME IF I'M GOING CRAZY

No.

I asked you two specific questions. 1. WHICH POSTS, and 2. NAME A GAME. Question 1 considers 51 possible posts, so there are exactly 2^{51} possible answers to that question, and thus you can give a complete answer. 2. also has a finite number of possible answers (the number of games you and Brad played together). You haven't asnwered either of those. Those VERY SPECIFIC calls... which ALSO CAME FIRST.

And then you fault me for not answering the question "So if you're so well aware [objective towniness] exists what stops you from applying it to a wolf game?" (which I believe I did, but apparently not to your satisfaction). DO you understand the difference between the questions I'm asking (that you're avoiding) and the one you're asking? MINE AREN'T OPEN ENDED. THEY'RE SPECIFIC. If I did not write a long enough essay for your question, OH SORRY! You thought did not answer a MULTIPLE CHOICE question.

There is NO real answer to your question. It might as well be a discussion prompt. MY QUESTIONS have ONE answer (or if you are BSing, which I think you are, zero answers).

[Manny]

I wonder what are the odds i get wagoned at eod considering i prolly wont be up for it.

[Lime Coke]

It's crazy how many times I need to reword my statement because Sean can just find a creative way of not answering me that makes me want to smash my face into a wall call it town and then never speak on it again.

But maybe I should just go take lunch first.

I see that the two of you have an argument here but I don't feel like my brain has enough power to process it for now. Too much text, too many names. I'll try to have a look into it tomorrow and get back to it on D3.

I do still feel like many of Sean's posts since D2 started have been very deep and towny though, so if that's the point of debate this is my stance on it.

No, I've also come away from the conversation that has me moving Sean up on my reads list but it feels like I have to pull out my teeth just to get an attempt at the answer I'm looking for.

That's normal.

Is it? Please tell me if I'm going crazy because these past few pages make me think I'm going crazy and maybe my statements are hard to read or I'm the problem but I don't feel like I am so please TELL ME IF I'M GOING CRAZY

No.

I asked you two specific questions. 1. WHICH POSTS, and 2. NAME A GAME. Question 1 considers 51 possible posts, so there are exactly 2^{51} possible answers to that question, and thus you can give a complete answer. 2. also has a finite number of possible answers (the number of games you and Brad played together). You haven't asnwered either of those. Those VERY SPECIFIC calls... which ALSO CAME FIRST.

And then you fault me for not answering the question "So if you're so well aware [objective towniness] exists what stops you from applying it to a wolf game?" (which I believe I did, but apparently not to your satisfaction). DO you understand the difference between the questions I'm asking (that you're avoiding) and the one you're asking? MINE AREN'T OPEN ENDED. THEY'RE SPECIFIC. If I did not write a long enough essay for your question, OH SORRY! You thought did not answer a MULTIPLE CHOICE question.

There is NO real answer to your question. It might as well be a discussion prompt. MY QUESTIONS have ONE answer (or if you are BSing, which I think you are, zero answers).

Seanzie just give it up not like you're gonna look at the games anyway.

[Manny]

I wonder what are the odds i get wagoned at eod considering i prolly wont be up for it.

Hardclaim Town Enclave Remnants [aka Town PR].

Im prolly consensus scumread enough that makes forcing wolves to self-resolve my ass at night worth it + i think its somewhat likely i might actually die today without claiming cuz Mac is still stuck on me!wolf apparently

[Seanzie]

I wonder what are the odds i get wagoned at eod considering i prolly wont be up for it.

Hardclaim Town Enclave Remnants [aka Town PR].

Im prolly consensus scumread enough that makes forcing wolves to self-resolve my ass at night worth it + i think its somewhat likely i might actually die today without claiming cuz Mac is still stuck on me!wolf apparently

What'd you do last night?

Caesar's Legion (guaranteed to appear)

During each day phase (no later than one hour prior to the vote deadline), you may submit a list of all living players to the host. In the event of a tied vote, the player in the tie who is highest on your list will be eliminated.

Separately, twice during the game during any separate night phases, you may select a player. You will be told who that player visited if anyone.

Finally, twice during the game during any separate night phases, you may select a player. You will be told who visited that player if anyone. This ability will not successfully detect any fatal actions.

[Manny]

My leacy is prolly smth along the lines of dont kill creature/jack [rescind this in worlds of w!chels]/lan/mac [maybe rescind this if there isnt a wolf in scotty/chelsea]/brad

[Manny]

What'd you do last night?

Falcon visited you which is why i've been townreading him lol, dont see any point for wolves to act on u.

[Seanzie]

What'd you do last night?

Falcon visited you which is why i've been townreading him lol, dont see any point for wolves to act on u.

General fear seems like a pretty strong motivation.

Why choose to watch me?

[Manny]

Falcon visited you which is why i've been townreading him lol, dont see any point for wolves to act on u.

if im right on the read this just outs another town pr but
not like i can deny claiming without making it more likely to be yeeted, kinda wish i had gotten nothing of my role ngl

[Manny]

Why choose to watch me?

u were the cw, i figured town roles would be likely to act on u to check [informative ones] or the rb'er.

[Manny]

I hate the fact that Mac is postcapped cuz i kinda wanna omgus him to death now and i dunno how much is it because he might be a wolf and how much is it because im annoyed at him being unable to find me!v here.