Fallout New Vegas: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [LEGION CONQUEST]

[Scotty]

Out of date rainbow for Seanzie

TOWN
LC
Epi (not gonna explain this one til it matters for reasons)

TOWNISH
Seanzie
Lime
Mac

NO CLUE
Dunn
Tony
Manny
Nook
Falcon
Chelsea
Creature

SCUMISH
Scotty
LanMisa


Don’t take anything but the LC and Epi reads to the bank just yet.

Talk to me about why your SCUMISH reads and TOWN reads are backwards.

LanMila is my top town lol

[falcon45ca]

Refresh me on your Epi wolfread Manny?

They have a grand total of 0 townie or productive posts.
ngl i wouldnt be shocked if they still flip town anyways but i see no point in not resolving the slot.

I sort of agree with this.

2. Yes, but w/ varying degrees of accuracy, as it can be difficult for ourselves to actually understand our own meta.



2A. That's exactly my point



2B. No

Hey you're the person who asked me for how I play as town. Why do so if you think it can't be trusted?




@Dunnstral Oh, did nobody tell you?






Sometimes people lie

[Scotty]

Out of date rainbow for Seanzie

TOWN
LC
Epi (not gonna explain this one til it matters for reasons)

TOWNISH
Seanzie
Lime
Mac

NO CLUE
Dunn
Tony
Manny
Nook
Falcon
Chelsea
Creature

SCUMISH
Scotty
LanMisa


Don’t take anything but the LC and Epi reads to the bank just yet.

Even if I don't take it to the bank, can you say something about Scotty and LanMisa? These are reads that are pretty far removed from what I'd consider the thread consensus (especially the LanMisa read).

I didn’t like their long running D1 interaction. Looked fake. Looked like they weren’t trying to read each other. Don’t take it to the bank cause like they have a lot of other content I haven’t looked at.

Wait, you’re calling us scummish because we didn’t really interact D1?

The hell kinda read is that? I think I didn’t interact with you either. By that logic, you should be in the same pile

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine

[Scotty]

Okay. So I went from "players I don't explicitly townread" list, to "everyone come on, vote Long Con!!" without a single reason why. It's like you just picked a name from your list and just *decided* to try and get a wagon started.

I think you're done here, other LC. [VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine

Sure, but even if they did that I don't think that makes them mafia

Heya Dunn. Summarize the day for me. This is not me using you to ketchup. This is me not having a read on you and me wanting to get your pov on events so don’t like ignore me.

Macdougall looked good at the start of the day with long analysis posts, but as the day went on their posts veered more towards short antagonistic posts.
Lime Coke vs Seanzie seems to be motivated by a grudge.
Lanmisa made a lot of posts I considered insightful.
Manny has been making an effort to find mafia.
Chelsea is voting people just for pressure.
Creature popped in once and made a nothing post.
Nanook made several nothing posts.

There is no vs. here. I would agree that it feels to me like Lime has a grudge, but I do not. If you'd like to talk about Lime with me, I am open to that, but this is not a good summary of that specific subplot.

Could you point out where Manny is doing this? I think this is a place that you and I differ, and it would help me sort you (and Manny possibly) if we could find where that difference is.

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Those are all posts, and while I can see why they could be considered evidence for what you said, I find almost every post there shallow and lacking. I'd be remiss if I didn't say that I am worried about you finding this compelling, but perhaps there is some meta between you two? If not, do you have any insight into why you and I are seeing these posts differently?

Just considering these posts, I see that he seemed to be considering a w!Scotty world, but that didn't show up in his later PoE of [Nanook, TSP, Epi, LongCon]. That PoE is essentially those that aren't giving a lot of content, and while sure, these are all worrisome names, I don't think anyone should get town!points for pointing this out. That also covers two other posts you quote - pointing out that TSP and Epi don't have a lot of content isn't bad, but I don't think this is prime wolfhunting. The remaining two posts here are a Brad vs. Seanzie post, which doesn't really seek to solve between me and Brad (Manny seems to townread Brad and scumread me, but we're a diffcheck because "annoying"? Yeah, Brad calling me an idiot is annoying, that doesn't make this a difference check.) The final post is a wagon-analysis, not a bad thing to do, but aside from scotty ending up on bottom, there isn't any reasoning given for the list ordering, and this is essentially a formulaic thing.

I'm very sorry, but I have a hard time looking at these posts and objectively saying that Manny is doing a good enough job wolfhunting to warrant an entire line in your summary of the thread. I'd love to hear from you why I'm wrong though.

@Epignosis get your courier ass #5 off Seanzie. This guy is town

[Scotty]

Not much, finishing paperwork, eating a brownie.

Mafia sux go find them for me so I can sheep o7

Idk I'd have to read more than broseph and Brad going back and forth while Brad takes potshots at every other dude in the game and that seems like work smhsmh

Brad takes potshots at everyone that isn't a woman.

But good news me and him are both in our town meta come join the towncore baby with Lanmisa <3

Ehhhhh idk brad can be b****y as mafia sometimes too now tbh

Do you think Sean is town

I think there Iso is mid and idm if the slot goes over but if it's a villager we are voting in Mac/Scotty until 1 of them flips red.

You seriously don’t think we could all be town?

Sure there could be a world where Town is just eating each other alive but I have a hard problem thinking the easy route of "wow everyone is town and it's just non-active posters is all wolves" is the right one.

Of course, it has been but you could just say I have paranoia over it.

If Lime Coke hadn’t randomly thrown a shield over you at beginning of day, I’d be hard pressed scumreading you. I think Lime giving that read has to be acknowledged regardless of his alignment and it’s frankly annoying because confidence is magnetic.

I was asking if you could summon up a world where Mac/seanzie/myself are all town, and you respond here with ‘all of the non-active posters’ can’t be wolves. That’s not what we’re talking about, unless you think Mac/sean/i are the only active posters.
Plus here you are voting one of the most inactive posters in the game.

I don’t think town is eating each other alive. Dunno what narrative that is.

[Scotty]

Does his opinion of me being ‘obviously town’ have any bearing?

The last time Brad told me someone was so obviously town they were the last mafia and I never read the slot because I trusted his read there.

However if Brad looked me in the eye and said "yeah Scotty is just town" I'd leave you alone until I couldn't probably.

Well, you’d be hard pressed to get someone on forum to look you in the eye unless you’re exactly part of the matrix, but:

Fuck it Scotty can be town.

So you agree that Michelle is hitting some gnarly notes?

Not yet but obviously I know how to read you and how you play.
{snip}

Why is it "obviously"?

I wolfed with him a few years ago.

Granted I think I've only played with him when he's been town ever since then.

I feel like that game allowed me to really tell the difference in between his town and wolf games.

[Chelsea]

I've asked you numerous questions which I think are all fair and can create positive discussion between us. You haven't responded at all. I'm not sure why.

Can you please respond to my posts? All three of these have gone unanswered:

I believe I've answered the second question a bit ago, as for the other ones:

1) While Falcon and Tony at that point in time just felt like throwing darts and picking a read, I saw some conviction and sway in your posts, even if there wasn't a lot it was enough that I didn't like the direction you were going with it. You believe you're firmly in your town meta? Why are you so towny that the play you're displaying can't be from a wolf?

3) I see parts of Brad's wolf meta, but with the way Brad is playing if he's a wolf X is happening and quite frankly he's never won when X is happening so I'm perfectly fine to let that go through. I just think he's town though and going out in a blaze of glory. I understand why people would vote that for game sake but yeah.

1) Do you associate conviction with wolfing? What posts are these bad posts? I'd be happy to engage with you on it, but this doesn't give me enough to know what direction you're talking about or where to start.

I don't think it's even a meta thing, I believe I am starting to bleed objective towniness. The easiest way you're likely to see it is to engage with me (for example on exactly what you were seeing earlier) to see my purity of thought. If you'd like specifics though, I believe the nuance of thought I've given on topics, especially recently, but starting pretty much D2, is more-or-less exactly what you were saying about LanMisa, and I believe I am one of the people showing the most interest in pushing the game forward positively for pretty much this entire day phase.

3) What is "X" here? If you mean to say that wolf!Brad never wins, that isn't true. Have you ever seen notes of wolf!Brad in a town!Brad game? if so, can you provide some detail/evidence?

1) No, but conviction can be read and results can be drawn to it. If people made a read on Falcon and Tony previously regardless of what the result is I wouldn't have believed it was strong. You on the other hand I would've understood because there's more to it to discuss. I don't recall saying your posts are bad, so I cannot point you to what you're asking. You're wanting to know what I took issue with so I would be fine voting you, right?

The posts aren't "bad" there's a flow and a direction to them that I simply did not like. You know, when you look at something and ask what's weird and you just go based on the sense. I am curious though you think 'objective towniness' exists, does that mean 'objective wolfiness' exists? Even if I push aside my own opinion that those terms don't exist, you've basically given a checklist on what you expect a villager to do.

So why can't those methods apply to yourself? Are you trying to tell me your wolfgame is so bad that you just can't play like the way you have?

3) I am saying if Brad is a wolf, he's making a play. A play I've seen him do before and haven't won with such a play. Basically he's dying for his teammates to benefit the most off of. Do I think that's what's happening? No, I think he's just town. Of course I've seen hints of his wolf game in his town game. If you cannot see vice versa in either game then by example you're saying a player is so blatantly wolfy and or towny that they're to be cleared.

[Scotty]

The repeated LanMisa/Scotty exchange looks like treading water in spite of there being more like reads and reasoning in those posts than the rest of the thread.

Sorry, I’m looking back at your lanmisa/me thoughts and I come to this from yesterday.

Then I looked at my own posts and I think I only responded/mentioned lanmisa once before this, by putting them into their own category without explanation.


So..,what are you even referring to here?

[Chelsea]

Idk I'd have to read more than broseph and Brad going back and forth while Brad takes potshots at every other dude in the game and that seems like work smhsmh

Brad takes potshots at everyone that isn't a woman.

But good news me and him are both in our town meta come join the towncore baby with Lanmisa <3

Ehhhhh idk brad can be b****y as mafia sometimes too now tbh

Do you think Sean is town

I think there Iso is mid and idm if the slot goes over but if it's a villager we are voting in Mac/Scotty until 1 of them flips red.

You seriously don’t think we could all be town?

Sure there could be a world where Town is just eating each other alive but I have a hard problem thinking the easy route of "wow everyone is town and it's just non-active posters is all wolves" is the right one.

Of course, it has been but you could just say I have paranoia over it.

If Lime Coke hadn’t randomly thrown a shield over you at beginning of day, I’d be hard pressed scumreading you. I think Lime giving that read has to be acknowledged regardless of his alignment and it’s frankly annoying because confidence is magnetic.

I was asking if you could summon up a world where Mac/seanzie/myself are all town, and you respond here with ‘all of the non-active posters’ can’t be wolves. That’s not what we’re talking about, unless you think Mac/sean/i are the only active posters.
Plus here you are voting one of the most inactive posters in the game.

I don’t think town is eating each other alive. Dunno what narrative that is.

I think if you're wolfreading me you should put your vote down instead of saying you would if Brad wasn't around. Brad has the chance to be wrong, Brad is someone I know well. People have talked about how if I am a wolf I would be able to snow them. Are you scared of voting me knowing that the read would be incorrect and look horrible to you? Because that's the way it's coming off. The whole confidence thing sounds like a weak excuse.


You asked "do you really believe we all can't be town" And I said "yes I can see it but I find it unlikely."

Just because you do not like the result of your question does not mean your question hasn't been answered and you trying to shift the topic as if it has is just odd. All the people who have been voted were not on the side of being active until they were made to be (Nanook, Sean, Lime) were all mostly low posting until a wagon on them started.

If we are talking worldviews, you're voting Jack, expressing a wolfread on me and Lime being the top wagon. What exactly are you doing or planning to accomplish right now? Because to me it looks like nothing.

[Manny]

Chelsea how confident are u % wise on brad?.

[Chelsea]

[VOTE: Nanook ] aubergine

[Manny]

[VOTE: NANOOK ] aubergine

would u buss nanook here
please say yes so i dont have to re-consider my vote tyvm.

[Chelsea]

Chelsea how confident are u % wise on brad?.

You believe I'm a wolf, you should be asking yourself if you think wolf me hard defends my partner or I'm spewing Brad town.

I feel like I've made my stance on Brad pretty clear, I've seen the "Brad is upset" angle as a wolf. I just think he'd be doing more if he was one.

[Chelsea]

It's hard to tell if you're just so stuck read wise or just openly wolfing like Mac said and right now I don't think it's the former.

[Manny]

You believe I'm a wolf, you should be asking yourself if you think wolf me hard defends my partner or I'm spewing Brad town.

im actually living in both v!chels and w!chels worlds at the same time.
If i was locked on you wolf i would be hard deathtunneling u lol.
But i feel like u not being 100% locked on a Brad read is kinda worrying but i dunno if its worrying for ur allignment or brad's

[Manny]

It's hard to tell if you're just so stuck read wise or just openly wolfing like Mac said and right now I don't think it's the former.

Im way too wolfy on a level 0 basis to actually be a wolf
but i dont expect anyone other than maybe exactly Lan to believe that lmao.

[Chelsea]

It's hard to tell if you're just so stuck read wise or just openly wolfing like Mac said and right now I don't think it's the former.

Im way too wolfy on a level 0 basis to actually be a wolf
but i dont expect anyone other than maybe exactly Lan to believe that lmao.

I could throw this right back at you and say if I was a wolf you'd have me as lock town.

[Chelsea]

(I'm not using that as an argument as it's silly I just want you to stop playing like you expect so much while also doing next to no work)

[Manny]

(I'm not using that as an argument as it's silly I just want you to stop playing like you expect so much while also doing next to no work)

When did i say im sr'ing u because i expect more from you though?. My problem with you is not your effort or activity and i never claimed that.

[Manny]

[Chelsea]

I don't feel like having this conversation for what feels like the third time this phase tbh it's not productive. I'd rather just push you over tomorrow or with the help of Mac when they come back depends what happens first.

[Manny]

ig i cant send a post thats fully covered in [] thats sad.
(i dont think you are level 0 wolfy so u cant uno reverse my argument back at me gg ez)

[Manny]

I don't feel like having this conversation for what feels like the third time this phase tbh it's not productive. I'd rather just push you over tomorrow or with the help of Mac when they come back depends what happens first.

How much easier would this game be for u if i lock!towned myself? last question ill ask so reply it.

[Chelsea]

I don't feel like having this conversation for what feels like the third time this phase tbh it's not productive. I'd rather just push you over tomorrow or with the help of Mac when they come back depends what happens first.

How much easier would this game be for u if i lock!towned myself? last question ill ask so reply it.

Not much considering when I stopped reading I felt like you wouldn't be acting this entitled as a wolf and then you come out of right field with posts like these that make me not really care.

I just want Epi Tony and Scotty to get hit with a triple vig atm then I'll deep dive into the rest.

[Manny]

Then ngl i dont get ur beef with me if me being more townie than i am doesnt even make the game easier for u to solve lmao.
The amount of effort i spend is relative to the amount of effort i need to.

[Manny]

fmpov it seems like u got a problem with how im playing more than actually believing im a wolf shrug.
(dont reply if u dont want dont really think it'll make me solving u easier or anything)

[Lime Coke]

Idk I'd have to read more than broseph and Brad going back and forth while Brad takes potshots at every other dude in the game and that seems like work smhsmh

Brad takes potshots at everyone that isn't a woman.

But good news me and him are both in our town meta come join the towncore baby with Lanmisa <3

Ehhhhh idk brad can be b****y as mafia sometimes too now tbh

Do you think Sean is town

I think there Iso is mid and idm if the slot goes over but if it's a villager we are voting in Mac/Scotty until 1 of them flips red.

You seriously don’t think we could all be town?

Sure there could be a world where Town is just eating each other alive but I have a hard problem thinking the easy route of "wow everyone is town and it's just non-active posters is all wolves" is the right one.

Of course, it has been but you could just say I have paranoia over it.

If Lime Coke hadn’t randomly thrown a shield over you at beginning of day, I’d be hard pressed scumreading you. I think Lime giving that read has to be acknowledged regardless of his alignment and it’s frankly annoying because confidence is magnetic.

I was asking if you could summon up a world where Mac/seanzie/myself are all town, and you respond here with ‘all of the non-active posters’ can’t be wolves. That’s not what we’re talking about, unless you think Mac/sean/i are the only active posters.
Plus here you are voting one of the most inactive posters in the game.

I don’t think town is eating each other alive. Dunno what narrative that is.

It wasn't random I've been townreading her since Day 1.

[Chelsea]

Manny my problem with you is you've been playing differently, making bad pushes
but still somehow expected me to have you lock town at the end of Day 1.

Because I didn't do that though you think I'm wolfy.

You can play however you want I really do not care if you want to low post and not put in effort into a game but obviously I'm gonna call you out on what a BS push is when the only reason you "don't have me as town" is paranoia and what I stated above. Either that paranoia is bigger than you're letting on because you have some sort of mental block being able to accept that I'm just a villager or you're a wolf.

All I want from you is stop acting like I should have a 100% read on you and Brad in every single post because it makes no sense for you to have that worldview unless you're trying to BoP me.

[Chelsea]

It wasn't random I've been townreading her since Day 1.

I hope you're mafia so people say I was hard defending you.

Why is Long a wolf to you?

[Lime Coke]

Manny my problem with you is you've been playing differently, making bad pushes
but still somehow expected me to have you lock town at the end of Day 1.

Because I didn't do that though you think I'm wolfy.

You can play however you want I really do not care if you want to low post and not put in effort into a game but obviously I'm gonna call you out on what a BS push is when the only reason you "don't have me as town" is paranoia and what I stated above. Either that paranoia is bigger than you're letting on because you have some sort of mental block being able to accept that I'm just a villager or you're a wolf.

All I want from you is stop acting like I should have a 100% read on you and Brad in every single post because it makes no sense for you to have that worldview unless you're trying to BoP me.

Just say I'm 100% town it's useless doing anything else at this rate.

[Lime Coke]

It wasn't random I've been townreading her since Day 1.

I hope you're mafia so people say I was hard defending you.

Why is Long a wolf to you?

Saw him break Newcomb Tell, don't townread him, throwing out a hard tunnel in an attempt to survive.

[Lime Coke]

Also in terms of your first sentence refer to the post before.

At this rate both of us being able to do anything is gonna just require that.

[Manny]

Manny my problem with you is you've been playing differently, making bad pushes
but still somehow expected me to have you lock town at the end of Day 1.

Because I didn't do that though you think I'm wolfy.

You can play however you want I really do not care if you want to low post and not put in effort into a game but obviously I'm gonna call you out on what a BS push is when the only reason you "don't have me as town" is paranoia and what I stated above. Either that paranoia is bigger than you're letting on because you have some sort of mental block being able to accept that I'm just a villager or you're a wolf.

All I want from you is stop acting like I should have a 100% read on you and Brad in every single post because it makes no sense for you to have that worldview unless you're trying to BoP me.

How do you know they are bad pushes though, u aside (that i havent even pushed much considering i've never voted u so far iirc)?.
I thougth it made no sense for u to be scumreading me on d1, but since u seem to be pretty confused on my reasons for scumreading u its mostly a combination of PoE [aka having better reasons to townread a good amount of other people above u], Paranoia caused by me thinking you arent out of my perceived wolfrange, and me trying to figure out if you are pushing agenda or just solving normally.
I thougth u would have a godread on Brad if that isnt the case then i care a lot less, as for the read on me its on my personality to act entitled for townreads regardless of allignment lmao.

(And my paranoia is always bigger than i actually state in thread because i mentally pre-flip most people as either allignment until i find someplace that im comfortable with, short of LanMisa i've been thinking about "what if X wolf" and "what if X town" most of the day)

Also you've voted with me twice this day so far so, so much for bad pushes

[Seanzie]

I've asked you numerous questions which I think are all fair and can create positive discussion between us. You haven't responded at all. I'm not sure why.

Can you please respond to my posts? All three of these have gone unanswered:

I believe I've answered the second question a bit ago, as for the other ones:

1) While Falcon and Tony at that point in time just felt like throwing darts and picking a read, I saw some conviction and sway in your posts, even if there wasn't a lot it was enough that I didn't like the direction you were going with it. You believe you're firmly in your town meta? Why are you so towny that the play you're displaying can't be from a wolf?

3) I see parts of Brad's wolf meta, but with the way Brad is playing if he's a wolf X is happening and quite frankly he's never won when X is happening so I'm perfectly fine to let that go through. I just think he's town though and going out in a blaze of glory. I understand why people would vote that for game sake but yeah.

1) Do you associate conviction with wolfing? What posts are these bad posts? I'd be happy to engage with you on it, but this doesn't give me enough to know what direction you're talking about or where to start.

I don't think it's even a meta thing, I believe I am starting to bleed objective towniness. The easiest way you're likely to see it is to engage with me (for example on exactly what you were seeing earlier) to see my purity of thought. If you'd like specifics though, I believe the nuance of thought I've given on topics, especially recently, but starting pretty much D2, is more-or-less exactly what you were saying about LanMisa, and I believe I am one of the people showing the most interest in pushing the game forward positively for pretty much this entire day phase.

3) What is "X" here? If you mean to say that wolf!Brad never wins, that isn't true. Have you ever seen notes of wolf!Brad in a town!Brad game? if so, can you provide some detail/evidence?

1) No, but conviction can be read and results can be drawn to it. If people made a read on Falcon and Tony previously regardless of what the result is I wouldn't have believed it was strong. You on the other hand I would've understood because there's more to it to discuss. I don't recall saying your posts are bad, so I cannot point you to what you're asking. You're wanting to know what I took issue with so I would be fine voting you, right?

The posts aren't "bad" there's a flow and a direction to them that I simply did not like. You know, when you look at something and ask what's weird and you just go based on the sense. I am curious though you think 'objective towniness' exists, does that mean 'objective wolfiness' exists? Even if I push aside my own opinion that those terms don't exist, you've basically given a checklist on what you expect a villager to do.

So why can't those methods apply to yourself? Are you trying to tell me your wolfgame is so bad that you just can't play like the way you have?

3) I am saying if Brad is a wolf, he's making a play. A play I've seen him do before and haven't won with such a play. Basically he's dying for his teammates to benefit the most off of. Do I think that's what's happening? No, I think he's just town. Of course I've seen hints of his wolf game in his town game. If you cannot see vice versa in either game then by example you're saying a player is so blatantly wolfy and or towny that they're to be cleared.

1) You were talking about ME having conviction, not people having conviction about me. You specifically said:

Spoiler: show

[stuff deleted by Seanzie to shorten post]

I think Sean and Scotty have had bad posts in general. Does that explain it?

. Not really what I was asking, but sure, explaining this would be a good start. You did say my posts were bad, now you're saying my posts aren't bad, but you don't like the flow. In any of the cases, you still haven't really said which posts. I need you to meet me halfway if we want to have a productive discussion.

I don't think us engaging on mafia philosophy is at all helpful in either of us reading the other. I believe how I've been playing recently is very townie. You can tinfoil it, or say that it is possible I could still be a wolf, but that is not productive. If you disagree, we can talk about it (that IS productive), but a question like this does not do anything for the game.

3) Can you provide some evidence of a game where you played against town!Brad and saw some of wolf!Brad in his play? Perhaps a link to a game, and a sentence or two about what he was doing in that game that you thought was wolf!Brad?

-------------------------
You're bringing up good philosophical points, but it is making so that your answers often avoid talking about this game. I'd like to understand things like WHAT YOUR READ ON ME IS BASED ON, and things like YOURS AND BRADS HISTORY, to understand the current game and I am asking pointed questions to get to the bottom of these things. I feel like I am just repeating the previous questions because they were not answered, and instead I got back a bunch of generic "does objective towniness exist?" and "Doesn't everyone always show notes of towniness and scumminess?"

[Chelsea]

Manny my problem with you is you've been playing differently, making bad pushes
but still somehow expected me to have you lock town at the end of Day 1.

Because I didn't do that though you think I'm wolfy.

You can play however you want I really do not care if you want to low post and not put in effort into a game but obviously I'm gonna call you out on what a BS push is when the only reason you "don't have me as town" is paranoia and what I stated above. Either that paranoia is bigger than you're letting on because you have some sort of mental block being able to accept that I'm just a villager or you're a wolf.

All I want from you is stop acting like I should have a 100% read on you and Brad in every single post because it makes no sense for you to have that worldview unless you're trying to BoP me.

How do you know they are bad pushes though, u aside (that i havent even pushed much considering i've never voted u so far iirc)?.
I thougth it made no sense for u to be scumreading me on d1, but since u seem to be pretty confused on my reasons for scumreading u its mostly a combination of PoE [aka having better reasons to townread a good amount of other people above u], Paranoia caused by me thinking you arent out of my perceived wolfrange, and me trying to figure out if you are pushing agenda or just solving normally.
I thougth u would have a godread on Brad if that isnt the case then i care a lot less, as for the read on me its on my personality to act entitled for townreads regardless of allignment lmao.

(And my paranoia is always bigger than i actually state in thread because i mentally pre-flip most people as either allignment until i find someplace that im comfortable with, short of LanMisa i've been thinking about "what if X wolf" and "what if X town" most of the day)

Also you've voted with me twice this day so far so, so much for bad pushes

Dang I didn't know all it took was the vote to be correct for the push to be good that's crazy I'll note that down in the future.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Like I'm being serious my guy if you kill me don't kill Chelsea.

[Manny]

Lan > Creature > Jack > Mac > Falcon > Brad > Seanzie > Scotty > Chels > Dunnstral > Long Con > Epi > TSP > Nanook

i kinda hate the order of the last 5 but idk how to switch it around.
[also i may or may not switch this heavily in the next couple hours depending on my mood]

[Manny]

Dang I didn't know all it took was the vote to be correct for the push to be good that's crazy I'll note that down in the future.

im a simple guy, if villa vote wolf, villa push good.
mafia is a game of luck anyways.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Out of date rainbow for Seanzie

TOWN
LC
Epi (not gonna explain this one til it matters for reasons)

TOWNISH
Seanzie
Lime
Mac

NO CLUE
Dunn
Tony
Manny
Nook
Falcon
Chelsea
Creature

SCUMISH
Scotty
LanMisa


Don’t take anything but the LC and Epi reads to the bank just yet.

Even if I don't take it to the bank, can you say something about Scotty and LanMisa? These are reads that are pretty far removed from what I'd consider the thread consensus (especially the LanMisa read).

I didn’t like their long running D1 interaction. Looked fake. Looked like they weren’t trying to read each other. Don’t take it to the bank cause like they have a lot of other content I haven’t looked at.

Wait, you’re calling us scummish because we didn’t really interact D1?

The hell kinda read is that? I think I didn’t interact with you either. By that logic, you should be in the same pile

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine

Because you did interact a lot but you didn’t seem to be trying to read each other while interacting.

Not sure why town Scotty ever makes this vote tbh.

[LanMisa]

I haven't read the whole game but I read enough to get to confidence with these reads. I also actually think Epignosis has kind of softed himself as the Courierrole but I'm not really 3p hunting because frankly it does not comply with how I read games in that I sort people by the level of believability in the choices they make.

Which now that I have articulated, kind of ... makes me see Chelsea ever so slightly more favourably. And also Creature. So I suppose I could call them upper POE, with Jack, Bradley and Falcon as the lower POE.

Okay, so imagine me being on page 21, seeing you make more reasonable posts, playing much more akin to how I'd expect you to play as town, having a take on Chelsea that got me thinking (alongside Scotty's take the page before)... and then you drop the bolded and I'm back to shaking my head. Like, what is this kind of post going to achieve here? Are you wolfing or are you just intentionally trying to stay alive longer by acting wolfy between solving?

Trying to figure you out is most likely going to be the most frustrating experience in this game. You switch so hard between extremely wolfy and very towny, sometimes between pages... I really have no idea where I should sort you.

Gonna leave the vote for now while I read more posts but... I feel like I need to see your flip this game before I feel safe to put you into any category this time.

Going against the grain Mac hunting feels towny. I think you’re town.

Mac doesn’t come off as wolfy to me atm. Granted, I feel like I’ve only played a few games with wolf Mac and he seemed more chaotic, but that was a bit ago now.

I'll...not go there today(this phase), I am clearly biased at that point, but getting bullied in broad daylight does that to you.

A bit unfortunate that we seem to have missed each other this phase so far, I was looking forward to do some solving together in real-time.

It’s ok, I’m sure we’ll have a chance to talk tomorrow

Unless we die

But nah, that would be too easy

Ah, sorry, I meant that as in today (Saturday).

I'm back but it was a tiring experience, so I am not all that attentive right now.

[Chelsea]

Boy do I have some good news for you Jack.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Lan > Creature > Jack > Mac > Falcon > Brad > Seanzie > Scotty > Chels > Dunnstral > Long Con > Epi > TSP > Nanook

i kinda hate the order of the last 5 but idk how to switch it around.
[also i may or may not switch this heavily in the next couple hours depending on my mood]

lol which side is townreads?

[Manny]

lol which side is townreads?

Towniest to scummiest.

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

[Jackofhearts2005]

Boy do I have some good news for you Jack.

[LanMisa]

Spoiler: show

My brain is unable to process the bolded part of your statement. Like, I literally do not understand what the sentence is supposed to say.

Scotty has shown several instances of both making and adjusting reads in a very natural and believable way, especially on D1. Since I haven't been in the game with him as much in D2 (or at all, I believe?) D2 has left less of an expression on me but I remember liking his entrance. It felt natural, like he was trying to both factor in the night actions and flips in a believable way. And I didn't get the impression of any of that being a wolf agenda - what exactly gave you that feeling?

But yeah, I do think that TSP needs to show us more and Falcon already has a pressure wagon, from what I can see, and is actively posting.

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

Please come join us, we'd like to hear your input!

I think TSP should come and join, but honestly out of the people who IMO are not giving enough content, they're actually on the low-end of worry. This is mostly meta, but this TSP doesn't give me the same notes as the wolf!TSP that will pretend like they don't care about a game. This TSP I think is actually just not engaged.

Out of the people who I would really like to see more of, from most concerning to least concerning I think is:
Nanook
Jack
Falcon
TSP

Creature could possibly go on this list as well, but their ISO did have some spots that looked very town!Creature-y (even though I have definitely seen him do some solving as wolf!Creature), and Falcon I just haven't actually attempted to read, so meh, his place on this list might be more due to me than him. Nanook IMO stands above the rest since some things he has done is IMO strongly associated with how Nanook sometimes wolfs.

Cut out some previous posts for better readability and spoilered a bit that's irrelevant to your points:

I don't think that I have enough TSP meta apart from "competent player" to make a meaningful meta read here. I do agree that Nanook's previous showing is concerning and I would like to pressure him a bit more as well. Jack and Falcon...Jack has volume, Falcon had some posts towards me that felt okay enough for now, but not unfakeable either? Both are on my reread list.

Creature...I stand by my statement of Creature being extremely towny D1. I am concerned that he hasn't come back to play yet but I am not sure if I want to go there today unless he literally zero posts this phase (meaning: zero game related posts). Since I'm not going to be around for EOD I'd give him a pass for today and I just hope that he can dissolve my worries once he comes back.

[VOTE: NANOOKTHE[...]] aubergine

I would like to see a bit more content from you, if possible.

Anything is possible if you believe hard enough in the power of imagination

I hope that I will find more during my backreading than just an off comment evading the topic.

[Lime Coke]

Like I'm being serious my guy if you kill me don't kill Chelsea.

It's called a legacy read, Jack.

[LanMisa]

Spoiler: show

Also, I have no idea if bolding the quoted did anything there, so I was referring to the "I find it hard to find the stances [...]" sentence. I don't understand it on a grammatical level.

It does something but is very hard to notice.

I think falcon is way more likely than not villa btw.
I still think Lan is an IC
Mac and Creature can still be town

I kinda wanna kill Chels but im too much of a coward to actually push that today so i'd settle for TSP or Epi ig.

Thoughts on Mac and Chelsea?

Also I see falcon being floated around, falcon completely fell below my radar so far, but then again so did TSP and (for a long time) Sig and... too many others.

You can find me on sonar or lidar, but I am immune to radio waves

Okay, but what's your stances on the game? Where is your head at? What do you think about your wagon, and why?

I don't think I've seen you post much content I found meaningful and I'd rather see more.

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again

I can't see any reason to find Epi town

Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted

I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

1) Do you have prior experience with Epi and what we should expect from them?
2) Do you think that people are usually honest with regards to self-meta? Also, wouldn't that make it easier for a wolf to just "playbook" their own self-proclaimed meta? Do you have prior experience playing with Dunn that would back up that self-meta claim?
3) LC's anger feels less game-related and more player-related, considering that they want to clobber Sean in real life while almost begging to be yeeted. I don't think that they are related here. What else do you read LC off?

These are some good points you are bringing up, I think you are likely to be town this game based on this and previous posts I've liked. Or third party.

I'll point out that my self meta was other people asking me how I play as town and me responding to it.

Thanks. Also, yeah, this is how it sounded when Falcon talked about that self-meta take of yours.

Put some of the extra bits in spoilers for readability.

[Seanzie]

Lan > Creature > Jack > Mac > Falcon > Brad > Seanzie > Scotty > Chels > Dunnstral > Long Con > Epi > TSP > Nanook

i kinda hate the order of the last 5 but idk how to switch it around.
[also i may or may not switch this heavily in the next couple hours depending on my mood]

Tell me about Creature's position, and my position.

Do you still think me/Brad is a difference check?

[LanMisa]

Okay, I double-checked and apparently I had made 60 posts yesterday, so I got over a 50 more to go.

Not gonna lie, it felt to me like I had a lot more of them but maybe it's just that a lot of the earlier ones felt draining.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

Reading the previous page from here gives me town feels from Lime and Mac.