Fallout New Vegas: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [LEGION CONQUEST]

[Scotty]

Also i saw Mac earlier saying wolves doing 2 nk's but both nk's arent necessarily wolves, could be 3p for one of them.

That was me

Indies verifiably can’t have made a kill last night, and town vig should not have made any of those kills unless they were going for unsubstantiated hero shot.

Its either the courier or that Three legged white lotus in mafia

[Scotty]

NANOOK IS HERE?

MY GOAT.

HIIIIIII IT'S BEEN TOO LONG <3333

Ayyyyyy

Sup?? <3

Not much, finishing paperwork, eating a brownie.

Mafia sux go find them for me so I can sheep o7

Idk I'd have to read more than broseph and Brad going back and forth while Brad takes potshots at every other dude in the game and that seems like work smhsmh

Brad takes potshots at everyone that isn't a woman.

But good news me and him are both in our town meta come join the towncore baby with Lanmisa <3

Ehhhhh idk brad can be b****y as mafia sometimes too now tbh

Do you think Sean is town

I think there Iso is mid and idm if the slot goes over but if it's a villager we are voting in Mac/Scotty until 1 of them flips red.

You seriously don’t think we could all be town?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I provided post counts at the start of the day. Do not exceed your caps. MacDougall has exceeded post cap and will not be able post further even when the cap lifts apart from placing votes.

[Scotty]

Probably dying but whatever.

Like I said if I die then never vote out Chelsea.

Oh! Right, I forgot about this.

Probably a good look for Chelsea regardless.

And me too, right? Wondering why I’m also not someone we should never vote out

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

[Jackofhearts2005]

Chelsea, Manny, Scotty, TSP, LC, Jack level 1 POE off wago. Probably 1 between Epi and Falcon due to the RO3 on the Seanzie wagon (unless Seanzie is mafia and I'm misreading the NKA).

Jack's EOD felt the most like "I'm just here so I won't get fined". Scotty at least was progressing the game so I will do the due diligence of trying to read you in good faith and solve with you and see if we can find a way to obv town you through townsiding. Chelsea feels like a reliably likely wolf, though probably not w/w with Manny, who I actually do think is the towniest in the list. Don't think LC hit town notes, and Jack had him as a member of his towncore so @Jackofhearts2005 elaborate on your LC read in a way that I can believe or I'll lock POE you.

@TonyStarkPrime speed up your curve and get towny or die.

@falcon45ca dome @Epignosis.

[TonyStarkPrime]

eating a breakfast hot dog. mac's situation is unfortunate because I was expecting him to solve LC for me

[Jackofhearts2005]

Much as I don’t see any reason to sleepwalk into another D1-2 Sig shrugyeet, I wouldn’t invoke dadv in this situation considering the number of ppl missing.

Spoiler: show

Also there are a handful of people naysaying the Sig yeet and Brad just moved from Sig to Seanzie. But I don’t scumread the players in question so whatever

If @sig won't come back and cast a vote to tie it up at least, then I just don't know.

How do you expect Sig to play as mafia or as town when he is in chop danger?

I kinda expect him to just not show up at eod regardless of alignment, lady’s man that he is.

Okay you said this post was wolfy but in a towny way. It isn't apparent to me what that means at all. Can you explain your brain function there?

What part of this is confusing?

Dead air dead villager is like “wolves aren’t doing anything to change the status quo. Ergo, we’re yeeting a villager.” This doesn’t apply if people ARE trying to change the status quo or people are silent for reasons besides liking the status quo ie Valentine’s Day.

So I was responding to “Sig shouldnt be the yeet cause dadv” with “dadv doesn’t apply but yeah, I don’t really think Sig should be the yeet either.”

[Jackofhearts2005]

Idk what wolfy in a townie way means.

[Scotty]

@Scotty give me your top 3 town please.

@Seanzie yours too please.

I should mention because I was thinking of Seanzie- he would’ve been a GREAT vig target.

If we had a vig, I would have assumed they would’ve shot yesterday. I do not think we have a vig (this is all based on how I would play of course)

Anyway, 3 town? Hmmmmm

So I did some thinking in the night and Dunnstral should be town, but I’m actually thinking they could be exactly a deepwolf in the making. The way they were pocketing me was very smooth and I chalked it up to me just being town as shit yesterday (I know, I know, only a few groupies agreed) but I think I might be getting it all wrong. Might be. Too scared to vote there tho.

That didn’t answer your question.

LanMila had some good back and forth. Not tooo blendy, and not scared to make reads.
Ironically, I think you came out of yesterday being pretty towny. I’ve flip flopped on you in my head and will probably do so as the day goes on, but for now you’re town to me.

I was coming around on Creature. He has emerged in the back half of the day as someone I wouldn’t mind borrowing my sugar

Hi, Scotty, I think I asked you yesterday already but I'd like your help in building a stance on Dunnstral who flies a bit under my personal radar. I see that you read him off of personal interactions, which is something I tend to do as well, but do you have experience with Dunn? Like, you are afraid of a potential deep wolf but have you seen Dunn take such strategies before or is that a general "I don't want to be snowed" stance?

Like, I get the aspect of questioning everything but being too paranoid can destroy town cohesiveness.

Yeah, I getcha.

I’ve never played with Dunn (or you for that matter) so personal feeling is all I’ve got.

Dunnstral is hitting all the right notes. Isn’t afraid to ask pointed questions. In some ways, has been parroting my thought process in their own way. All of that rings town to me.
On the other hand, because I don’t know them as a player I’m putting up a shield because of how smooth they are. I’m putting up this tinfoil now because I think if they’re town, and we start producing I’ll feel better. But if they’re still alive after a couple phases, it might be time to reassess

[Jackofhearts2005]

Maybe Mac was confused with me saying Sig was a ladies man wowee

[Scotty]

I haven't read the whole game but I read enough to get to confidence with these reads. I also actually think Epignosis has kind of softed himself as the Courierrole but I'm not really 3p hunting because frankly it does not comply with how I read games in that I sort people by the level of believability in the choices they make.

Which now that I have articulated, kind of ... makes me see Chelsea ever so slightly more favourably. And also Creature. So I suppose I could call them upper POE, with Jack, Bradley and Falcon as the lower POE.

Okay, so imagine me being on page 21, seeing you make more reasonable posts, playing much more akin to how I'd expect you to play as town, having a take on Chelsea that got me thinking (alongside Scotty's take the page before)... and then you drop the bolded and I'm back to shaking my head. Like, what is this kind of post going to achieve here? Are you wolfing or are you just intentionally trying to stay alive longer by acting wolfy between solving?

Trying to figure you out is most likely going to be the most frustrating experience in this game. You switch so hard between extremely wolfy and very towny, sometimes between pages... I really have no idea where I should sort you.

Gonna leave the vote for now while I read more posts but... I feel like I need to see your flip this game before I feel safe to put you into any category this time.

Going against the grain Mac hunting feels towny. I think you’re town.

Mac doesn’t come off as wolfy to me atm. Granted, I feel like I’ve only played a few games with wolf Mac and he seemed more chaotic, but that was a bit ago now.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Put me down as also super surprised if a townie made either of those kills and I’m assuming the protag is more or less town aligned so I doubt it was him either if he’s even got a nk.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Wow nice kills that heavily point at @Scotty lol.

Why?

[Seanzie]

@Scotty give me your top 3 town please.

@Seanzie yours too please.

I should mention because I was thinking of Seanzie- he would’ve been a GREAT vig target.

If we had a vig, I would have assumed they would’ve shot yesterday. I do not think we have a vig (this is all based on how I would play of course)

Anyway, 3 town? Hmmmmm

So I did some thinking in the night and Dunnstral should be town, but I’m actually thinking they could be exactly a deepwolf in the making. The way they were pocketing me was very smooth and I chalked it up to me just being town as shit yesterday (I know, I know, only a few groupies agreed) but I think I might be getting it all wrong. Might be. Too scared to vote there tho.

That didn’t answer your question.

LanMila had some good back and forth. Not tooo blendy, and not scared to make reads.
Ironically, I think you came out of yesterday being pretty towny. I’ve flip flopped on you in my head and will probably do so as the day goes on, but for now you’re town to me.

I was coming around on Creature. He has emerged in the back half of the day as someone I wouldn’t mind borrowing my sugar

Hi, Scotty, I think I asked you yesterday already but I'd like your help in building a stance on Dunnstral who flies a bit under my personal radar. I see that you read him off of personal interactions, which is something I tend to do as well, but do you have experience with Dunn? Like, you are afraid of a potential deep wolf but have you seen Dunn take such strategies before or is that a general "I don't want to be snowed" stance?

Like, I get the aspect of questioning everything but being too paranoid can destroy town cohesiveness.

Yeah, I getcha.

I’ve never played with Dunn (or you for that matter) so personal feeling is all I’ve got.

Dunnstral is hitting all the right notes. Isn’t afraid to ask pointed questions. In some ways, has been parroting my thought process in their own way. All of that rings town to me.
On the other hand, because I don’t know them as a player I’m putting up a shield because of how smooth they are. I’m putting up this tinfoil now because I think if they’re town, and we start producing I’ll feel better. But if they’re still alive after a couple phases, it might be time to reassess

My perception of Dunnstral changed actually because of something you just said ... kind of "Isn't afraid to ask pointed questions"... I felt like they did ask a lot of questions, but many of them seemed like softballs , and I didn't really see what they did with them. Did they synthesize the answers into anything, or are they just asking questions to look engaged? I had a hard time saying they did the first thing, and I looked at ONE of their quoted town games, and at least early game, they didn't look anything like this.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Wow nice kills that heavily point at @Scotty lol.

look at you coming in with that poignant agenda

I see you

NKs aside, I should have known sig was town when he was just laying down and taking it, acting all wolfy. Typical town sig behavior. Sorry sig.

I’m not town leader today, but I might still postcap

Homie it's not poignant agenda. It's a straightforward read. The top and third top posters died and you were the second top poster. That points at you in a level 1 way. Trying to dress up a reasonable analysis as agenda is actually wolfier than what merited the read in the first place. Play a straight bat Scotty.

Ah.

Eh.

Like I suspect Scotty but that’s almost a level negative one thought. Like when wolves are top posters, they often leave other top posters alive so ppl don’t go “Why is Scotty still alive when every other top poster has been nightkilled?”

[Epignosis]

Refresh me on your Epi wolfread Manny?

They have a grand total of 0 townie or productive posts.
ngl i wouldnt be shocked if they still flip town anyways but i see no point in not resolving the slot.

[Epignosis]

While I am voting Mac, I really don't like how the wagons today have become me/Mac.

Very bad D1 wagons, lemme tell you.

Can we do Lime instead? I'd also consider Scotty, or maybe even Epi.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hello fellow strip citizens how do you do

Justify inventory weight limits as a game mechanic or die.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Scotty give me your top 3 town please.

@Seanzie yours too please.

Jack
Dunnstral
LanMisa

I guess LanMisa is something of a threadspewed townie. I have my doubts on the other two. Can you outline your reasoning?

I don't remember why on Dun, but Jack said something wolfy in a way that I think might actually be townie about us sleepwalking into a Sig elim.

Here’s that description again.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Hello fellow strip citizens how do you do

Justify inventory weight limits as a game mechanic or die.

I'm a bigger hoarder than a giant pack rat, the first non-stability mod i install in any Bethesda game is the equivalent of bandoliers for extra storage (yes I could just turn off the storage limit but I need some sort of artifical limit or I'd quite literally never be able to find anything)

[Seanzie]

Idk what wolfy in a townie way means.

@Scotty give me your top 3 town please.

@Seanzie yours too please.

Jack
Dunnstral
LanMisa

I guess LanMisa is something of a threadspewed townie. I have my doubts on the other two. Can you outline your reasoning?

I don't remember why on Dun, but Jack said something wolfy in a way that I think might actually be townie about us sleepwalking into a Sig elim.

Here’s that description again.

The second post is the first time it was mentioned (by me). It was actually about TSP though, not you (mah bad).

Some things are level 0 wolfy in a way that wolves actually very rarely if ever do them. A good example would be from the very first game I ever played on this site, where D1 I hard-defended wolf!Made who was going down, and did a lot to try to push the wagon away. Made still flipped, and a level 0 assessment might say that my behavior looks pretty wolfy given Made's flip, but honestly wolves very rarely act that way, so it was actually very townie.

TSP made a comment about walking face first into a Sig elim, which post-flip almost looks like TSP is telegraphing an eventual town!Sig flip, which is level 0 wolfy, but I don't think wolf!TSP does that, there is no reason to, and TSP isn't exactly a slouch of a wolf. Perhaps he made a little mistake this time (happens to all of us), but looking back at it, I kinda thought it was actually more likely to come from town than scum. Not gonna pretend like this is the worlds strongest read, but for someone who doesn't really town hunt, meh... it something.

[Seanzie]

While I am voting Mac, I really don't like how the wagons today have become me/Mac.

Very bad D1 wagons, lemme tell you.

Can we do Lime instead? I'd also consider Scotty, or maybe even Epi.

First off, today I learned that one of your posts has a link to a vocaroo. You made a second post with a picture of a radio, but that one does not have a link. Is it supposed to.

Second off, after listening to your vocaroo, you are townreading Lime, but I didn't really get any reason why from your broadcast. You're also apparently scumreading me, but again aside from pointing to this post (call it a salad if you want, suggesting that that makes me wolfy is pretty damn meh, especially considering everything else going on), I don't know why. You didn't say anything about this post, just pointed at it (and you're not happy I'm scumreading lime, but what do you think of my reasons to? What do you think of how differently I am treating Lime in this game vs. Don't Starve?)

[Scotty]

Falcon I just want to play more, it's the slot you probably want to vig shoot over exeing because there's just nothing in it. The can't make lylo player until they post well. . .any opinion. (Curious as I wasn't expecting Lime and Dunnstral to also be on here. Did Dunn's LHF clause only count for D1?)

I have Longcon as a villager because they're not wolf with Mac or Scotty and if both those slots are a villager with how high volume of their. . .confidence we're in trouble. (I think Scotty's wolf equality is pretty high though) Independent of that the convo with Lanmisa felt pretty good so yeah.

While I do feel okay with your catchup that I saw so far I don't see a Scotty wolf world here and I think that basing a read off of pre-flip associations is iffy.

I agree with Long Con's approach to me being towny though.

Also, the post after you went "TSP or Falcon, then Scotty or Sean" and I cannot follow that kind of logic. Would you do that regardless of who dies D2 and regardless of their alignment or...?

I think TSP and Falcon need to post more to get any sort of read on them (although others think they've posted enough take it as you will)

I think Sean and Scotty have had bad posts in general. Does that explain it?

Please point on the doll to where the bad posts are?

[Scotty]

I think falcon is way more likely than not villa btw.
I still think Lan is an IC
Mac and Creature can still be town

I kinda wanna kill Chels but im too much of a coward to actually push that today so i'd settle for TSP or Epi ig.

Thoughts on Mac and Chelsea?

Also I see falcon being floated around, falcon completely fell below my radar so far, but then again so did TSP and (for a long time) Sig and... too many others.

You can find me on sonar or lidar, but I am immune to radio waves

Okay, but what's your stances on the game? Where is your head at? What do you think about your wagon, and why?

I don't think I've seen you post much content I found meaningful and I'd rather see more.

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again






I can't see any reason to find Epi town






Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted






I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

Dammit falcon, I agree with all those points. Like all of them. GET OUT OF MY HEAD

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

[Scotty]

Falcon I just want to play more, it's the slot you probably want to vig shoot over exeing because there's just nothing in it. The can't make lylo player until they post well. . .any opinion. (Curious as I wasn't expecting Lime and Dunnstral to also be on here. Did Dunn's LHF clause only count for D1?)

I have Longcon as a villager because they're not wolf with Mac or Scotty and if both those slots are a villager with how high volume of their. . .confidence we're in trouble. (I think Scotty's wolf equality is pretty high though) Independent of that the convo with Lanmisa felt pretty good so yeah.

While I do feel okay with your catchup that I saw so far I don't see a Scotty wolf world here and I think that basing a read off of pre-flip associations is iffy.

I agree with Long Con's approach to me being towny though.

Also, the post after you went "TSP or Falcon, then Scotty or Sean" and I cannot follow that kind of logic. Would you do that regardless of who dies D2 and regardless of their alignment or...?

I think TSP and Falcon need to post more to get any sort of read on them (although others think they've posted enough take it as you will)

I think Sean and Scotty have had bad posts in general. Does that explain it?

Which posts from Scotty are bad? I see nothing but forward-thinking and solving posts from Scotty and I disagree hard with that stance.

I agree with Sean (talked about that yesterday enough) but got a more neutral feeling at the end of yesterday.

What makes TSP/Falcon different from Sean (not Scotty) with regards how you want to tackle them phase-wise?

I don't think solving posts in and of themselves are towny, and they certainly aren't where I play from. I've seen this statement tossed out by more than just you but unless a player is extremely polarized the amount of solving posts they make has nothing when actions and results also need to be taken account for. Let us just assume for example I am getting snowed by wolf!Lime (and that's giving a lot of BTOD) I think a lot of Scotty's posting has been very wolf-agenda coded. Esp early posting.

i find it hard to find the stances they've taken this game believable considering the 2 main wagons yall ended up on and then now are deciding "ah yes we must simply follow the same outlook." There's almost no sense of what feels to me genuine reflection or town trying to figure out the game. If you have really good reasons to TR them I'd like to hear it.


You can have low posts and still be wolfy and while I feel TSP/Falcon had next to 0 AI posts Sean's posting clearly had some attempts to them. I need more from TSP/Falcon to general to get a read on them, I don't with Sean.

ah k, I see your reasoning.

I just think all things considered, even if Lime is wolf, I don’t believe he would nakedly defend you, his partner, coming into the day. I can’t deny the level of confidence he has in calling you and I both town.

Does his opinion of me being ‘obviously town’ have any bearing?

[Scotty]

hmmm chelsea/mac is prolly either w/v or v/v.
if v/v then brad is also V
i dont really feel like resolving this today either way though

Kinda where I’m at

[Scotty]

also scotty fell off today and i dislike that cuz it makes me think of worlds of w!Scotty and thats harder than worlds of "the shrug people being wolves"

My activity level is not AI. If anything, lately, my wolf rands have = top poster status.

I’m just busy

[Scotty]

@Scotty give me your top 3 town please.

@Seanzie yours too please.

I should mention because I was thinking of Seanzie- he would’ve been a GREAT vig target.

If we had a vig, I would have assumed they would’ve shot yesterday. I do not think we have a vig (this is all based on how I would play of course)

Anyway, 3 town? Hmmmmm

So I did some thinking in the night and Dunnstral should be town, but I’m actually thinking they could be exactly a deepwolf in the making. The way they were pocketing me was very smooth and I chalked it up to me just being town as shit yesterday (I know, I know, only a few groupies agreed) but I think I might be getting it all wrong. Might be. Too scared to vote there tho.

That didn’t answer your question.

LanMila had some good back and forth. Not tooo blendy, and not scared to make reads.
Ironically, I think you came out of yesterday being pretty towny. I’ve flip flopped on you in my head and will probably do so as the day goes on, but for now you’re town to me.

I was coming around on Creature. He has emerged in the back half of the day as someone I wouldn’t mind borrowing my sugar

Hi, Scotty, I think I asked you yesterday already but I'd like your help in building a stance on Dunnstral who flies a bit under my personal radar. I see that you read him off of personal interactions, which is something I tend to do as well, but do you have experience with Dunn? Like, you are afraid of a potential deep wolf but have you seen Dunn take such strategies before or is that a general "I don't want to be snowed" stance?

Like, I get the aspect of questioning everything but being too paranoid can destroy town cohesiveness.

Yeah, I getcha.

I’ve never played with Dunn (or you for that matter) so personal feeling is all I’ve got.

Dunnstral is hitting all the right notes. Isn’t afraid to ask pointed questions. In some ways, has been parroting my thought process in their own way. All of that rings town to me.
On the other hand, because I don’t know them as a player I’m putting up a shield because of how smooth they are. I’m putting up this tinfoil now because I think if they’re town, and we start producing I’ll feel better. But if they’re still alive after a couple phases, it might be time to reassess

My perception of Dunnstral changed actually because of something you just said ... kind of "Isn't afraid to ask pointed questions"... I felt like they did ask a lot of questions, but many of them seemed like softballs , and I didn't really see what they did with them. Did they synthesize the answers into anything, or are they just asking questions to look engaged? I had a hard time saying they did the first thing, and I looked at ONE of their quoted town games, and at least early game, they didn't look anything like this.

Ugh yeah I didn’t check for a followup





Feeling spicy

[VOTE: Dunnstral] aubergine

On the Lime Coke front…what are you guys doing?

If Lime Coke is the yeet today and flips wolf, I think Chelsea looks GREAT. Am I wrong?

I think it’s suspect of Nook to be voting there- I don’t get the impression he’s fully into the game yet, and is part of the leading wagon. Throws red flags to me

[Scotty]

Refresh me on your Epi wolfread Manny?

They have a grand total of 0 townie or productive posts.
ngl i wouldnt be shocked if they still flip town anyways but i see no point in not resolving the slot.

All right, now I KNOW Epi’s wolfing. He has a typo on his billboard. Wolf.

[Scotty]

I wanna keep this around, if only because I want to hear more about Scotty brand toilet paper.

Summarizing Epi’s reads:
-he trusts LanMila and we should sheep that
-Lime Coke had his spats with Seanzie and I and we should keep Lime Coke around
-War never changes

At least that’s what I got out of it

[LanMisa]

Okay, I'm back from training but I'm still aggravated from the earlier exchange. Fuck it, Mac, this is a game, not an ego measuring content.

[VOTE: Unvote ] aubergine

Also, my apologies for spitevoting, it's unbecoming of me and also the reason I left thread immediately: Getting heated up here is only going to help the wolves since it keeps distracting me from playing the game properly - and that is true irregardless of Mac's alignment.

I'm tired from earlier and from training but I'll try to read through the pings at least and answer any questions if they came up.

[LanMisa]

I wanna keep this around, if only because I want to hear more about Scotty brand toilet paper.

Summarizing Epi’s reads:
-he trusts LanMila and we should sheep that
-Lime Coke had his spats with Seanzie and I and we should keep Lime Coke around
-War never changes

At least that’s what I got out of it

I'm honestly but positively surprised that you can decipher all of that. One issue is that the low volume also doesn't really tell us if any of these reads come and go; I remember seeing that read on me early D1 and... quite a bit of time has passed since then.

[LanMisa]

I think falcon is way more likely than not villa btw.
I still think Lan is an IC
Mac and Creature can still be town

I kinda wanna kill Chels but im too much of a coward to actually push that today so i'd settle for TSP or Epi ig.

Thoughts on Mac and Chelsea?

Also I see falcon being floated around, falcon completely fell below my radar so far, but then again so did TSP and (for a long time) Sig and... too many others.

You can find me on sonar or lidar, but I am immune to radio waves

Okay, but what's your stances on the game? Where is your head at? What do you think about your wagon, and why?

I don't think I've seen you post much content I found meaningful and I'd rather see more.

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again

I can't see any reason to find Epi town

Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted

I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

1) Do you have prior experience with Epi and what we should expect from them?
2) Do you think that people are usually honest with regards to self-meta? Also, wouldn't that make it easier for a wolf to just "playbook" their own self-proclaimed meta? Do you have prior experience playing with Dunn that would back up that self-meta claim?
3) LC's anger feels less game-related and more player-related, considering that they want to clobber Sean in real life while almost begging to be yeeted. I don't think that they are related here. What else do you read LC off?

1. Yes, and I find Epi does exactly what he's doing now when he's wolf, passively engages the thread in a way that makes him difficult to read

2. Yes, but w/ varying degrees of accuracy, as it can be difficult for ourselves to actually understand our own meta.
2A. That's exactly my point
2B. No

3. Nothing, I've not skimmed much outside of the aggro stuff

That looks...reasonable I guess? Would love to see you give a bit deeper of an insight on Lime though; considering that Lime seems to be the main talking point of D2 so far.

[LanMisa]

Spoiler: show

My brain is unable to process the bolded part of your statement. Like, I literally do not understand what the sentence is supposed to say.

Scotty has shown several instances of both making and adjusting reads in a very natural and believable way, especially on D1. Since I haven't been in the game with him as much in D2 (or at all, I believe?) D2 has left less of an expression on me but I remember liking his entrance. It felt natural, like he was trying to both factor in the night actions and flips in a believable way. And I didn't get the impression of any of that being a wolf agenda - what exactly gave you that feeling?

But yeah, I do think that TSP needs to show us more and Falcon already has a pressure wagon, from what I can see, and is actively posting.

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

Please come join us, we'd like to hear your input!

I think TSP should come and join, but honestly out of the people who IMO are not giving enough content, they're actually on the low-end of worry. This is mostly meta, but this TSP doesn't give me the same notes as the wolf!TSP that will pretend like they don't care about a game. This TSP I think is actually just not engaged.

Out of the people who I would really like to see more of, from most concerning to least concerning I think is:
Nanook
Jack
Falcon
TSP

Creature could possibly go on this list as well, but their ISO did have some spots that looked very town!Creature-y (even though I have definitely seen him do some solving as wolf!Creature), and Falcon I just haven't actually attempted to read, so meh, his place on this list might be more due to me than him. Nanook IMO stands above the rest since some things he has done is IMO strongly associated with how Nanook sometimes wolfs.

Cut out some previous posts for better readability and spoilered a bit that's irrelevant to your points:

I don't think that I have enough TSP meta apart from "competent player" to make a meaningful meta read here. I do agree that Nanook's previous showing is concerning and I would like to pressure him a bit more as well. Jack and Falcon...Jack has volume, Falcon had some posts towards me that felt okay enough for now, but not unfakeable either? Both are on my reread list.

Creature...I stand by my statement of Creature being extremely towny D1. I am concerned that he hasn't come back to play yet but I am not sure if I want to go there today unless he literally zero posts this phase (meaning: zero game related posts). Since I'm not going to be around for EOD I'd give him a pass for today and I just hope that he can dissolve my worries once he comes back.

[VOTE: NANOOKTHE[...]] aubergine

I would like to see a bit more content from you, if possible.

[falcon45ca]

I think falcon is way more likely than not villa btw.
I still think Lan is an IC
Mac and Creature can still be town

I kinda wanna kill Chels but im too much of a coward to actually push that today so i'd settle for TSP or Epi ig.

Thoughts on Mac and Chelsea?

Also I see falcon being floated around, falcon completely fell below my radar so far, but then again so did TSP and (for a long time) Sig and... too many others.

You can find me on sonar or lidar, but I am immune to radio waves

Okay, but what's your stances on the game? Where is your head at? What do you think about your wagon, and why?

I don't think I've seen you post much content I found meaningful and I'd rather see more.

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again






I can't see any reason to find Epi town






Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted






I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

Dammit falcon, I agree with all those points. Like all of them. GET OUT OF MY HEAD

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

I'll get out of your head if you get into my pants





Wait, no

[Creature]

Good afternoon

How are we doing?

[falcon45ca]

Townread:
Michelle
Chelsea
Scotty

Townlean:
Manny
Dunnstral

I added Dunnstral to townleans because I think...whatever he's doing is towny.

What are your actual scum reads? I saw you implore Mac not to vote Chelsea, which is passively giving Mac a TR as well...so who aren't you TRing?

[falcon45ca]

Good afternoon

How are we doing?

Lil' sweet, lil' sassy, how bout' you?

[LanMisa]

@Scotty give me your top 3 town please.

@Seanzie yours too please.

I should mention because I was thinking of Seanzie- he would’ve been a GREAT vig target.

If we had a vig, I would have assumed they would’ve shot yesterday. I do not think we have a vig (this is all based on how I would play of course)

Anyway, 3 town? Hmmmmm

So I did some thinking in the night and Dunnstral should be town, but I’m actually thinking they could be exactly a deepwolf in the making. The way they were pocketing me was very smooth and I chalked it up to me just being town as shit yesterday (I know, I know, only a few groupies agreed) but I think I might be getting it all wrong. Might be. Too scared to vote there tho.

That didn’t answer your question.

LanMila had some good back and forth. Not tooo blendy, and not scared to make reads.
Ironically, I think you came out of yesterday being pretty towny. I’ve flip flopped on you in my head and will probably do so as the day goes on, but for now you’re town to me.

I was coming around on Creature. He has emerged in the back half of the day as someone I wouldn’t mind borrowing my sugar

Hi, Scotty, I think I asked you yesterday already but I'd like your help in building a stance on Dunnstral who flies a bit under my personal radar. I see that you read him off of personal interactions, which is something I tend to do as well, but do you have experience with Dunn? Like, you are afraid of a potential deep wolf but have you seen Dunn take such strategies before or is that a general "I don't want to be snowed" stance?

Like, I get the aspect of questioning everything but being too paranoid can destroy town cohesiveness.

Yeah, I getcha.

I’ve never played with Dunn (or you for that matter) so personal feeling is all I’ve got.

Dunnstral is hitting all the right notes. Isn’t afraid to ask pointed questions. In some ways, has been parroting my thought process in their own way. All of that rings town to me.
On the other hand, because I don’t know them as a player I’m putting up a shield because of how smooth they are. I’m putting up this tinfoil now because I think if they’re town, and we start producing I’ll feel better. But if they’re still alive after a couple phases, it might be time to reassess

Ah, yeah, that's a fair stance. If we do get into a situation where we are clearly on the wrong path everything needs to be re-evaluated anyways. Let's do our best to not let it get there.

[LanMisa]

Good afternoon

How are we doing?

Mostly tired.

Looking forward to seeing your stances on what has happened today so far, let me know once you've made some reads and/or observations so that we can talk about them.

[LanMisa]

I haven't read the whole game but I read enough to get to confidence with these reads. I also actually think Epignosis has kind of softed himself as the Courierrole but I'm not really 3p hunting because frankly it does not comply with how I read games in that I sort people by the level of believability in the choices they make.

Which now that I have articulated, kind of ... makes me see Chelsea ever so slightly more favourably. And also Creature. So I suppose I could call them upper POE, with Jack, Bradley and Falcon as the lower POE.

Okay, so imagine me being on page 21, seeing you make more reasonable posts, playing much more akin to how I'd expect you to play as town, having a take on Chelsea that got me thinking (alongside Scotty's take the page before)... and then you drop the bolded and I'm back to shaking my head. Like, what is this kind of post going to achieve here? Are you wolfing or are you just intentionally trying to stay alive longer by acting wolfy between solving?

Trying to figure you out is most likely going to be the most frustrating experience in this game. You switch so hard between extremely wolfy and very towny, sometimes between pages... I really have no idea where I should sort you.

Gonna leave the vote for now while I read more posts but... I feel like I need to see your flip this game before I feel safe to put you into any category this time.

Going against the grain Mac hunting feels towny. I think you’re town.

Mac doesn’t come off as wolfy to me atm. Granted, I feel like I’ve only played a few games with wolf Mac and he seemed more chaotic, but that was a bit ago now.

I'll...not go there today(this phase), I am clearly biased at that point, but getting bullied in broad daylight does that to you.

A bit unfortunate that we seem to have missed each other this phase so far, I was looking forward to do some solving together in real-time.

[falcon45ca]

Thoughts on Mac and Chelsea?

Also I see falcon being floated around, falcon completely fell below my radar so far, but then again so did TSP and (for a long time) Sig and... too many others.

You can find me on sonar or lidar, but I am immune to radio waves

Okay, but what's your stances on the game? Where is your head at? What do you think about your wagon, and why?

I don't think I've seen you post much content I found meaningful and I'd rather see more.

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again

I can't see any reason to find Epi town

Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted

I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

1) Do you have prior experience with Epi and what we should expect from them?
2) Do you think that people are usually honest with regards to self-meta? Also, wouldn't that make it easier for a wolf to just "playbook" their own self-proclaimed meta? Do you have prior experience playing with Dunn that would back up that self-meta claim?
3) LC's anger feels less game-related and more player-related, considering that they want to clobber Sean in real life while almost begging to be yeeted. I don't think that they are related here. What else do you read LC off?

1. Yes, and I find Epi does exactly what he's doing now when he's wolf, passively engages the thread in a way that makes him difficult to read

2. Yes, but w/ varying degrees of accuracy, as it can be difficult for ourselves to actually understand our own meta.
2A. That's exactly my point
2B. No

3. Nothing, I've not skimmed much outside of the aggro stuff

That looks...reasonable I guess? Would love to see you give a bit deeper of an insight on Lime though; considering that Lime seems to be the main talking point of D2 so far.

Ya know, I might, just cuz' you asked so nice







Sean's early take re: Maf Lime being afraid to engage isn't part of his meta that I'm aware of, so I prodded Lime






His response seems like foreshadowing now re: mods, and looking at his early posting, I'm not seeing any real engagement w/ anyone in a way that suggests he's actually trying to solve

[LanMisa]

Mac, just one post since staying on that topic is doing good for nobody:

It is clearly obvious that there is a vast divide between what you consider too much/offensive and what I consider offensive.
I had asked you more than once to stop since you crossed that line for me.
When you didn't stop I tried to take the high road by leaving since I felt myself to be really close to retaliating in a way I couldn't take back and which would have made the game extremely toxic for everyone involved.
What I could see is that you tried to browbeat me into coming back, blaming me for leaving and more or less continuing in the same way.

I consider my well-being and mental sanity as more important than winning or losing a game.

I want to work with you, not against you, but I refuse to do so on terms that are harmful towards myself.

If we manage to get back to being civil and understanding instead of mocking, demeaning and ignoring the other I am certain that we can still have a great game together.

However, if that is impossible, I will completely ignore you for the rest of the game, for the sake of the both of us. I do not want to lash out or act out and I already feel bad about how I personally acted earlier.

And that's not negotiable.

[falcon45ca]

I'm good w/ Epi, Dunn, Lime

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: epi] aubergine

[LanMisa]

You can find me on sonar or lidar, but I am immune to radio waves

Okay, but what's your stances on the game? Where is your head at? What do you think about your wagon, and why?

I don't think I've seen you post much content I found meaningful and I'd rather see more.

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again

I can't see any reason to find Epi town

Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted

I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

1) Do you have prior experience with Epi and what we should expect from them?
2) Do you think that people are usually honest with regards to self-meta? Also, wouldn't that make it easier for a wolf to just "playbook" their own self-proclaimed meta? Do you have prior experience playing with Dunn that would back up that self-meta claim?
3) LC's anger feels less game-related and more player-related, considering that they want to clobber Sean in real life while almost begging to be yeeted. I don't think that they are related here. What else do you read LC off?

1. Yes, and I find Epi does exactly what he's doing now when he's wolf, passively engages the thread in a way that makes him difficult to read

2. Yes, but w/ varying degrees of accuracy, as it can be difficult for ourselves to actually understand our own meta.
2A. That's exactly my point
2B. No

3. Nothing, I've not skimmed much outside of the aggro stuff

That looks...reasonable I guess? Would love to see you give a bit deeper of an insight on Lime though; considering that Lime seems to be the main talking point of D2 so far.

Ya know, I might, just cuz' you asked so nice

Sean's early take re: Maf Lime being afraid to engage isn't part of his meta that I'm aware of, so I prodded Lime

His response seems like foreshadowing now re: mods, and looking at his early posting, I'm not seeing any real engagement w/ anyone in a way that suggests he's actually trying to solve

Hm, okay, I can kind of see that. I'm also unsure about how to proceed with someone who felt earlier like wanting to be hoisted; players giving up feels a bit disheartening regardless of their alignment.

Thanks for taking your time to answer my questions, Falcon. Anything you want to ask me, for a change?

[falcon45ca]

Okay, but what's your stances on the game? Where is your head at? What do you think about your wagon, and why?

I don't think I've seen you post much content I found meaningful and I'd rather see more.

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again

I can't see any reason to find Epi town

Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted

I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

1) Do you have prior experience with Epi and what we should expect from them?
2) Do you think that people are usually honest with regards to self-meta? Also, wouldn't that make it easier for a wolf to just "playbook" their own self-proclaimed meta? Do you have prior experience playing with Dunn that would back up that self-meta claim?
3) LC's anger feels less game-related and more player-related, considering that they want to clobber Sean in real life while almost begging to be yeeted. I don't think that they are related here. What else do you read LC off?

1. Yes, and I find Epi does exactly what he's doing now when he's wolf, passively engages the thread in a way that makes him difficult to read

2. Yes, but w/ varying degrees of accuracy, as it can be difficult for ourselves to actually understand our own meta.
2A. That's exactly my point
2B. No

3. Nothing, I've not skimmed much outside of the aggro stuff

That looks...reasonable I guess? Would love to see you give a bit deeper of an insight on Lime though; considering that Lime seems to be the main talking point of D2 so far.

Ya know, I might, just cuz' you asked so nice

Sean's early take re: Maf Lime being afraid to engage isn't part of his meta that I'm aware of, so I prodded Lime

His response seems like foreshadowing now re: mods, and looking at his early posting, I'm not seeing any real engagement w/ anyone in a way that suggests he's actually trying to solve

Hm, okay, I can kind of see that. I'm also unsure about how to proceed with someone who felt earlier like wanting to be hoisted; players giving up feels a bit disheartening regardless of their alignment.

Thanks for taking your time to answer my questions, Falcon. Anything you want to ask me, for a change?

Yeah actually...





Why do you care if Maf give up?





I want them to be disheartened, and it feels like you're more concerned about Lime's feelings than his alignment...what is your actual read on his slot?

[LanMisa]

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again

I can't see any reason to find Epi town

Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted

I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

1) Do you have prior experience with Epi and what we should expect from them?
2) Do you think that people are usually honest with regards to self-meta? Also, wouldn't that make it easier for a wolf to just "playbook" their own self-proclaimed meta? Do you have prior experience playing with Dunn that would back up that self-meta claim?
3) LC's anger feels less game-related and more player-related, considering that they want to clobber Sean in real life while almost begging to be yeeted. I don't think that they are related here. What else do you read LC off?

1. Yes, and I find Epi does exactly what he's doing now when he's wolf, passively engages the thread in a way that makes him difficult to read

2. Yes, but w/ varying degrees of accuracy, as it can be difficult for ourselves to actually understand our own meta.
2A. That's exactly my point
2B. No

3. Nothing, I've not skimmed much outside of the aggro stuff

That looks...reasonable I guess? Would love to see you give a bit deeper of an insight on Lime though; considering that Lime seems to be the main talking point of D2 so far.

Ya know, I might, just cuz' you asked so nice

Sean's early take re: Maf Lime being afraid to engage isn't part of his meta that I'm aware of, so I prodded Lime

His response seems like foreshadowing now re: mods, and looking at his early posting, I'm not seeing any real engagement w/ anyone in a way that suggests he's actually trying to solve

Hm, okay, I can kind of see that. I'm also unsure about how to proceed with someone who felt earlier like wanting to be hoisted; players giving up feels a bit disheartening regardless of their alignment.

Thanks for taking your time to answer my questions, Falcon. Anything you want to ask me, for a change?

Yeah actually...

Why do you care if Maf give up?

I want them to be disheartened, and it feels like you're more concerned about Lime's feelings than his alignment...what is your actual read on his slot?

That is....actually a very good question, to be honest.

Not gonna lie, I'm a bit torn on Lime Coke. I had my issues with Lime and voiced them yesterday, the lack of wolf reads or suspicions Lime went off on when I was looking I think I talked about (Imagine not having the memory of a goldfish!). And I have no idea what Lime even tried to accomplish today, with Chelsea=godtier villager, Sean=personal nemesis and his dying wish.

Let me phrase it like that: I don't know at this point if Lime should be allowed to play if Lime themselves lost their will to fight. Either they are a wolf or a liability, in a way, since someone who is defeatist rarely develops reads or pushes the game forwards. But at the same time... we more or less ended up in a similar situation with Sig yesterday and look where that got us.

Why do I find that unfortunate regardless of Lime's alignment? I play to have fun and hang out with friends in a special environment, so to say. I play to win, that much should be obvious, but to me, winning holds no meaning if people leave frustrated or dejected over things that don't have to do with things that are directly mechanics-related (like, getting yeeted sucks, so does losing, but that's something you accept when playing). Seeing Lime apparently being out of it (and in a similar but less strong way: Manny) is just making the game less enjoyable for myself as well.

[LanMisa]

Like, f we yeet Lime and Lime flips wolf... I would hardly enjoy killing a wolf like THAT, if you know what I mean.

I mean, if he's a wolf we literally have to, but... yeah. I just dislike the current status quo. It's unfun.

[LanMisa]

Anyways, I can read in my own posts that I ended up getting into a depressed mood so I'll end stuff here for tonight.

Reminder that I will be away for more than 20 hours from this post. I will be either in a car or active as a referee so I won't be able to post or read anything here (my mobile phone ISP is awful).

Ping me or quote me if there's something you guys think I should have a look at, I will try to get through as much stuff as possible once I get back.