Fallout New Vegas: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [LEGION CONQUEST]

[MacDougall]

Man I wish I was 3p I'd be post capping every phase.

Epi is a "do the bare minimum to achieve my wincon" type player as any alignment lol.

And I meant that as a compliment because he routinely does in fact win.

[Manny]

i wonder if i can call brad/seanzie a diffcheck
cuz it'd be pretty annoying if thats v/v

[LanMisa]

I bet hard that he's one of the 3ps and probably exactly the courier.

I can also just shrug kill Tony not like he has done much to make me think he's town.
i dunno wether its ev+ to kill 3p now or later

If you start thinking too hard about 3Ps you forget that this is still a game of Mafia vs town and ultimately Mafia needs to remove the 3P in order to win.

(Of course, if we speedyeet two mafia in a row we may want to think about the situation harder but D2 after a town yeet is hardly the time.)

[MacDougall]

i wonder if i can call brad/seanzie a diffcheck
cuz it'd be pretty annoying if thats v/v

Feels lazy given Brad hasn't even actually accused Seanzie of being a wolf only of being annoying and has if anything treated him like he thinks he's town by criticising how bad he is at reading him as opposed to accusing him of having a wolf agenda in pushing him.

Also Seanzie is a billboard town anyway.

[Chelsea]

[VOTE: Epi] aubergine

I knew I prob should've kept the Scotty Mac dif check read to myself or at least until D3 but we can try this.

[MacDougall]

I bet hard that he's one of the 3ps and probably exactly the courier.

I can also just shrug kill Tony not like he has done much to make me think he's town.
i dunno wether its ev+ to kill 3p now or later

If you start thinking too hard about 3Ps you forget that this is still a game of Mafia vs town and ultimately Mafia needs to remove the 3P in order to win.

(Of course, if we speedyeet two mafia in a row we may want to think about the situation harder but D2 after a town yeet is hardly the time.)

Oh I see you reacted like me reading Epi as the courier was ridiculous because it's you. Makes sense now. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[Manny]

Feels lazy given Brad hasn't even actually accused Seanzie of being a wolf only of being annoying and has if anything treated him like he thinks he's town by criticising how bad he is at reading him as opposed to accusing him of having a wolf agenda in pushing him.

I thougth Brad wanted Seanzie killed off or is that just cuz he finds hm annoying lol

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Epi] aubergine

I knew I prob should've kept the Scotty Mac dif check read to myself or at least until D3 but we can try this.

Wait what is the logic of this read?

[Chelsea]

I just want people to play the game I was forced to sign up for.

[Manny]

oh btw Lan to reply ur question of my read on mac/chelsea
mac is V [prolly][dont quote on me this if he ends up being a wolf i will take absolutely no responsability for it]
and chelsea is uhm.... not my problem today.

[Chelsea]

[VOTE: Epi] aubergine

I knew I prob should've kept the Scotty Mac dif check read to myself or at least until D3 but we can try this.

Wait what is the logic of this read?

See above.

[Seanzie]

Yeah that's all I needed to see

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Didn't you say earlier that scum!Mac wouldn't push you? Can you explain what "that" is above, and why it is all you needed to see?

[Manny]

I just want people to play the game I was forced to sign up for.

hey i didnt force u, and im engaging with u as much as i can within the limits of my WIM :hmmyes:

[MacDougall]

Feels lazy given Brad hasn't even actually accused Seanzie of being a wolf only of being annoying and has if anything treated him like he thinks he's town by criticising how bad he is at reading him as opposed to accusing him of having a wolf agenda in pushing him.

I thougth Brad wanted Seanzie killed off or is that just cuz he finds hm annoying lol

It's a "Seanzie suspects me every game and I hate it so much I don't even care if he's town" based desire.

[MacDougall]

Which Seanzie then actually evidentially rebuked very well.

[LanMisa]

I bet hard that he's one of the 3ps and probably exactly the courier.

I can also just shrug kill Tony not like he has done much to make me think he's town.
i dunno wether its ev+ to kill 3p now or later

If you start thinking too hard about 3Ps you forget that this is still a game of Mafia vs town and ultimately Mafia needs to remove the 3P in order to win.

(Of course, if we speedyeet two mafia in a row we may want to think about the situation harder but D2 after a town yeet is hardly the time.)

Oh I see you reacted like me reading Epi as the courier was ridiculous because it's you. Makes sense now. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

Even my patience is limited.

Come back once sober and reflect on your actions. If you want to be a massive dick, be it somewhere else.

[falcon45ca]

I think falcon is way more likely than not villa btw.
I still think Lan is an IC
Mac and Creature can still be town

I kinda wanna kill Chels but im too much of a coward to actually push that today so i'd settle for TSP or Epi ig.

Thoughts on Mac and Chelsea?

Also I see falcon being floated around, falcon completely fell below my radar so far, but then again so did TSP and (for a long time) Sig and... too many others.

You can find me on sonar or lidar, but I am immune to radio waves

Okay, but what's your stances on the game? Where is your head at? What do you think about your wagon, and why?

I don't think I've seen you post much content I found meaningful and I'd rather see more.

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again

I can't see any reason to find Epi town

Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted

I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

1) Do you have prior experience with Epi and what we should expect from them?
2) Do you think that people are usually honest with regards to self-meta? Also, wouldn't that make it easier for a wolf to just "playbook" their own self-proclaimed meta? Do you have prior experience playing with Dunn that would back up that self-meta claim?
3) LC's anger feels less game-related and more player-related, considering that they want to clobber Sean in real life while almost begging to be yeeted. I don't think that they are related here. What else do you read LC off?

1. Yes, and I find Epi does exactly what he's doing now when he's wolf, passively engages the thread in a way that makes him difficult to read



2. Yes, but w/ varying degrees of accuracy, as it can be difficult for ourselves to actually understand our own meta.



2A. That's exactly my point



2B. No




3. Nothing, I've not skimmed much outside of the aggro stuff

[MacDougall]

I bet hard that he's one of the 3ps and probably exactly the courier.

I can also just shrug kill Tony not like he has done much to make me think he's town.
i dunno wether its ev+ to kill 3p now or later

If you start thinking too hard about 3Ps you forget that this is still a game of Mafia vs town and ultimately Mafia needs to remove the 3P in order to win.

(Of course, if we speedyeet two mafia in a row we may want to think about the situation harder but D2 after a town yeet is hardly the time.)

Oh I see you reacted like me reading Epi as the courier was ridiculous because it's you. Makes sense now. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

Even my patience is limited.

Come back once sober and reflect on your actions. If you want to be a massive dick, be it somewhere else.

There is absolutely nothing dickish about making a read. Grow up.

[Seanzie]

Falcon I just want to play more, it's the slot you probably want to vig shoot over exeing because there's just nothing in it. The can't make lylo player until they post well. . .any opinion. (Curious as I wasn't expecting Lime and Dunnstral to also be on here. Did Dunn's LHF clause only count for D1?)

I have Longcon as a villager because they're not wolf with Mac or Scotty and if both those slots are a villager with how high volume of their. . .confidence we're in trouble. (I think Scotty's wolf equality is pretty high though) Independent of that the convo with Lanmisa felt pretty good so yeah.

While I do feel okay with your catchup that I saw so far I don't see a Scotty wolf world here and I think that basing a read off of pre-flip associations is iffy.

I agree with Long Con's approach to me being towny though.

Also, the post after you went "TSP or Falcon, then Scotty or Sean" and I cannot follow that kind of logic. Would you do that regardless of who dies D2 and regardless of their alignment or...?

I think TSP and Falcon need to post more to get any sort of read on them (although others think they've posted enough take it as you will)

I think Sean and Scotty have had bad posts in general. Does that explain it?

Can you explain your read on me? I'm fairly certain that my towniness is shining through if you look for it closely enough. You're welcome to disagree, but if you do, let's talk about why.

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Epi] aubergine

I knew I prob should've kept the Scotty Mac dif check read to myself or at least until D3 but we can try this.

Wait what is the logic of this read?

See above.

I tried and I saw nothing.

[Chelsea]

Yeah that's all I needed to see

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Didn't you say earlier that scum!Mac wouldn't push you? Can you explain what "that" is above, and why it is all you needed to see?

Town Mac's read rate on me is one of the best. So I figured scum!Mac would carry that on and considering he's hardpushing a worldview I know is incorrect how exactly am I supposed to react?

It's either "Brad is a wolf with Chels"
"Chels read on Brad should be ignored"
or
"Chels goes over after Brad regardless"

[Manny]

I want to do a really stupid play or a really smart play
problem is i cant figure out which of the two it is.

[MacDougall]

Lan maybe rather than taking shots at my character you should reevaluate your own character given you resort to calling me a "massive dick" for making a read in a mafia game.

[Chelsea]

I just want people to play the game I was forced to sign up for.

hey i didnt force u, and im engaging with u as much as i can within the limits of my WIM :hmmyes:

I was peer pressured guilt tripped and gaslit into joining!!!

How come you don't have me as town I'm way in my town meta I'm gonna be mad if you don't have me as lock town rn.

[Manny]

How come you don't have me as town I'm way in my town meta I'm gonna be mad if you don't have me as lock town rn.

I have you as lock!cute good enough for ya?.

[MacDougall]

Yeah that's all I needed to see

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Didn't you say earlier that scum!Mac wouldn't push you? Can you explain what "that" is above, and why it is all you needed to see?

Town Mac's read rate on me is one of the best. So I figured scum!Mac would carry that on and considering he's hardpushing a worldview I know is incorrect how exactly am I supposed to react?

It's either "Brad is a wolf with Chels"
"Chels read on Brad should be ignored"
or
"Chels goes over after Brad regardless"

You haven't hit any town notes of yours I'm familiar with. I usually find all your angles a total vibe and meld with you. It's not my problem here you are simply not vibing my read and even called my read a 0/3 then voted one of my 3. How can you live in a world where your analysis of my play is so patently flawed in such a level 1 way and then criticise me for not finding you town? Improve the approach you have to reading me and maybe I could find you.

[Chelsea]

How come you don't have me as town I'm way in my town meta I'm gonna be mad if you don't have me as lock town rn.

I have you as lock!cute good enough for ya?.

For now. . .

[MacDougall]

You seem to think my 3 is you/Creature/Brad when prior to you making that read I had actually found Brad town and then sheeped him on you and made my 3 Jack/Falcon/Creature. You then called my solve 0/3 and voted Falcon. So you're quite likely just basing a read on me off of false data due to posting prior to a complete catch up which then in turn tilted me. Fwiw. At least that's the me acting in good faith way of viewing it. Onus is on you now to admit it.

[MacDougall]

I'm gonna drop my Creature sus though because both Chelsea and Lan seem to have him as top town and we sheep this on policy no matter what their alignments are good good.

[MacDougall]

@Creature you're town now. Good job.

[Chelsea]

Yeah that's all I needed to see

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Didn't you say earlier that scum!Mac wouldn't push you? Can you explain what "that" is above, and why it is all you needed to see?

Town Mac's read rate on me is one of the best. So I figured scum!Mac would carry that on and considering he's hardpushing a worldview I know is incorrect how exactly am I supposed to react?

It's either "Brad is a wolf with Chels"
"Chels read on Brad should be ignored"
or
"Chels goes over after Brad regardless"

You haven't hit any town notes of yours I'm familiar with. I usually find all your angles a total vibe and meld with you. It's not my problem here you are simply not vibing my read and even called my read a 0/3 then voted one of my 3. How can you live in a world where your analysis of my play is so patently flawed in such a level 1 way and then criticise me for not finding you town? Improve the approach you have to reading me and maybe I could find you.

I voted 1 of your 3 to put pressure on them not because I think they're a wolf while you do.

I've tried to understand your worldview and get what you're talking about over the past few pages but every post you've made in regards to me is basically "lol your fault not mine" or "shut up wolf" so how exactly am I supposed to improve in reading you when you're not giving me any chance in doing so?

It's fine you don't have me as a villager I'd be pretty vain to vote you based on just that fact because I know people can be wrong (ew I know) but our reads seem to not be further apart.

[Seanzie]

Falcon I just want to play more, it's the slot you probably want to vig shoot over exeing because there's just nothing in it. The can't make lylo player until they post well. . .any opinion. (Curious as I wasn't expecting Lime and Dunnstral to also be on here. Did Dunn's LHF clause only count for D1?)

I have Longcon as a villager because they're not wolf with Mac or Scotty and if both those slots are a villager with how high volume of their. . .confidence we're in trouble. (I think Scotty's wolf equality is pretty high though) Independent of that the convo with Lanmisa felt pretty good so yeah.

While I do feel okay with your catchup that I saw so far I don't see a Scotty wolf world here and I think that basing a read off of pre-flip associations is iffy.

I agree with Long Con's approach to me being towny though.

Also, the post after you went "TSP or Falcon, then Scotty or Sean" and I cannot follow that kind of logic. Would you do that regardless of who dies D2 and regardless of their alignment or...?

I think TSP and Falcon need to post more to get any sort of read on them (although others think they've posted enough take it as you will)

I think Sean and Scotty have had bad posts in general. Does that explain it?

Which posts from Scotty are bad? I see nothing but forward-thinking and solving posts from Scotty and I disagree hard with that stance.

I agree with Sean (talked about that yesterday enough) but got a more neutral feeling at the end of yesterday.

What makes TSP/Falcon different from Sean (not Scotty) with regards how you want to tackle them phase-wise?

I don't think solving posts in and of themselves are towny, and they certainly aren't where I play from. I've seen this statement tossed out by more than just you but unless a player is extremely polarized the amount of solving posts they make has nothing when actions and results also need to be taken account for. Let us just assume for example I am getting snowed by wolf!Lime (and that's giving a lot of BTOD) I think a lot of Scotty's posting has been very wolf-agenda coded. Esp early posting.

i find it hard to find the stances they've taken this game believable considering the 2 main wagons yall ended up on and then now are deciding "ah yes we must simply follow the same outlook." There's almost no sense of what feels to me genuine reflection or town trying to figure out the game. If you have really good reasons to TR them I'd like to hear it.


You can have low posts and still be wolfy and while I feel TSP/Falcon had next to 0 AI posts Sean's posting clearly had some attempts to them. I need more from TSP/Falcon to general to get a read on them, I don't with Sean.

My brain is unable to process the bolded part of your statement. Like, I literally do not understand what the sentence is supposed to say.

Scotty has shown several instances of both making and adjusting reads in a very natural and believable way, especially on D1. Since I haven't been in the game with him as much in D2 (or at all, I believe?) D2 has left less of an expression on me but I remember liking his entrance. It felt natural, like he was trying to both factor in the night actions and flips in a believable way. And I didn't get the impression of any of that being a wolf agenda - what exactly gave you that feeling?

But yeah, I do think that TSP needs to show us more and Falcon already has a pressure wagon, from what I can see, and is actively posting.

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

Please come join us, we'd like to hear your input!

I think TSP should come and join, but honestly out of the people who IMO are not giving enough content, they're actually on the low-end of worry. This is mostly meta, but this TSP doesn't give me the same notes as the wolf!TSP that will pretend like they don't care about a game. This TSP I think is actually just not engaged.

Out of the people who I would really like to see more of, from most concerning to least concerning I think is:
Nanook
Jack
Falcon
TSP

Creature could possibly go on this list as well, but their ISO did have some spots that looked very town!Creature-y (even though I have definitely seen him do some solving as wolf!Creature), and Falcon I just haven't actually attempted to read, so meh, his place on this list might be more due to me than him. Nanook IMO stands above the rest since some things he has done is IMO strongly associated with how Nanook sometimes wolfs.

[MacDougall]

That's not true I said that like twice and have otherwise been engaging normally. Seems like you're just trying to portray a false narrative so you don't have to admit that you're not playing around me properly. Townies can do that. If you're townie you'll admit it though right now. Because this is an olive branch that leads to Valhalla.

[Manny]

hmmm i think im fine with poe of [nanook/tsp/epi/lc]
for today?

[MacDougall]

which lc?

[Manny]

which lc?

the one thats not brad
i still think he has hit more of his town notes than not
granted i could be wrong, not a brad godreader or anything close to it

[MacDougall]

@Chelsea how are reads that different? I don't even care about my reads so I can just bin them if you want. Reads are worthless as shit. All I care about is my vote being on a wolf by EOD. My reads are nothing but information retrieval tools until the eod crystallises my vote.

[Manny]

i have also decided that i dont really plan to elaborate on my falcon townread for the time being, but i still think he's more town than not.
but lazy to explain why or actually shield him in a meaningful way.

[Seanzie]

i wonder if i can call brad/seanzie a diffcheck
cuz it'd be pretty annoying if thats v/v

I wouldn't call it a diffcheck.

It is possible I'm wrong on Brad, but I think my reasons are solid. Brad I think actually likely knows I'm town (either via TMI or by just reading), but I think cares more about punishing me as a person than playing to possibly admit it. Chelsea disagrees with my Lime read, but she also has thus far not responded to me asking her to engage me on it, so it is hard for me to take much stock in her thoughts.

I think honestly based on how I've played with Lime, it should be more likely from an outsiders perspective that Lime and I are w/w rather than v/w. Wolf!Seanzie just doesn't play against town!Lime this way, it makes no sense. I know this is self-meta, but it is true, and I think one could be convinced that it is true.

[Chelsea]

@Chelsea how are reads that different? I don't even care about my reads so I can just bin them if you want. Reads are worthless as shit. All I care about is my vote being on a wolf by EOD. My reads are nothing but information retrieval tools until the eod crystallises my vote.

That's what I'm trying to figure out because when we're V/V It's normally "Hey Mac (blank) is a wolf right?" "lol yeah" slam dunk goodbye easy win go next.

And I don't want to miselim you if it's just us not finding each other it's why I'm asking you so much stuff lol.

[MacDougall]

Haven't even felt like you've asked me anything. Did I miss questions?

[MacDougall]

@Chelsea maybe this will help. Manny's most recent posts are wolfy as fuck.

[Manny]

Voters: Dunnstral, Michelle, Seanzie, Scotty, Lime Coke, ☆Princess Abigail☆, LanMisa

there's no shot, there isnt a wolf on dunnstrall/seanzie/scotty/brad
ig in terms of how likely i think it is is. uh.
Dunnstrall > Brad > Seanzie > Scotty?

[Seanzie]

I just want people to play the game I was forced to sign up for.

I've asked you numerous questions which I think are all fair and can create positive discussion between us. You haven't responded at all. I'm not sure why.

Can you please respond to my posts? All three of these have gone unanswered:

Spoiler: show

Falcon I just want to play more, it's the slot you probably want to vig shoot over exeing because there's just nothing in it. The can't make lylo player until they post well. . .any opinion. (Curious as I wasn't expecting Lime and Dunnstral to also be on here. Did Dunn's LHF clause only count for D1?)

I have Longcon as a villager because they're not wolf with Mac or Scotty and if both those slots are a villager with how high volume of their. . .confidence we're in trouble. (I think Scotty's wolf equality is pretty high though) Independent of that the convo with Lanmisa felt pretty good so yeah.

While I do feel okay with your catchup that I saw so far I don't see a Scotty wolf world here and I think that basing a read off of pre-flip associations is iffy.

I agree with Long Con's approach to me being towny though.

Also, the post after you went "TSP or Falcon, then Scotty or Sean" and I cannot follow that kind of logic. Would you do that regardless of who dies D2 and regardless of their alignment or...?

I think TSP and Falcon need to post more to get any sort of read on them (although others think they've posted enough take it as you will)

I think Sean and Scotty have had bad posts in general. Does that explain it?

Can you explain your read on me? I'm fairly certain that my towniness is shining through if you look for it closely enough. You're welcome to disagree, but if you do, let's talk about why.

Yeah that's all I needed to see

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Didn't you say earlier that scum!Mac wouldn't push you? Can you explain what "that" is above, and why it is all you needed to see?

NANOOK IS HERE?

MY GOAT.

HIIIIIII IT'S BEEN TOO LONG <3333

Ayyyyyy

Sup?? <3

Not much, finishing paperwork, eating a brownie.

Mafia sux go find them for me so I can sheep o7

Idk I'd have to read more than broseph and Brad going back and forth while Brad takes potshots at every other dude in the game and that seems like work smhsmh

Brad takes potshots at everyone that isn't a woman.

But good news me and him are both in our town meta come join the towncore baby with Lanmisa <3

Some of Brad's post look like town!Brad, but much of his behavior is also in his wolf meta. Are you seeing both parts, or no?

I don't know your meta, so I'll have to read you by other means.

[Manny]

@Chelsea maybe this will help. Manny's most recent posts are wolfy as fuck.

No they're not. Go try to bond with chels over something that is actually accurate atleast smh.

[MacDougall]

I disagree. I am finding your rationale for your reads to be exceedingly insincere. Your reasoning for townreading Falcon non existent and pretending you simply don't want to say it is lol. Your POE is just a list of 4 slots who don't appear to want to defend themselves at all ie. the path of least resistance. Also you're smelly.

[Manny]

I disagree. I am finding your rationale for your reads to be exceedingly insincere. Your reasoning for townreading Falcon non existent and pretending you simply don't want to say it is lol. Your POE is just a list of 4 slots who don't appear to want to defend themselves at all ie. the path of least resistance. Also you're smelly.

You really think i couldnt come up with reasons to townread someone as a wolf? lol.
There's no way u think thats actually wolfy for me when i could just easily either Not Townread Falcon or Make up any kind of reason to instead of just keeping the townread without explaining while knowing that it might get me scumread.
And yea my POE is a bunch of LHF's but can u say its wrong though? game doesnt have to be hard, killing people that arent being townie seems fine to me.
and ur mum

[Scotty]

What in Falcon or tony's iso makes them not rand to you and why is Mac town?

Ill wait for Falcon to start postting to re-confirm my read or back off from it.
Mac just reminds me of me my semifinals champs game and he was V there.

It doesnt really have to do with us being pals and moreso that if im wrong and i actually get u killed is probably some degree of gamelosing and if you are actually a wolf i can /probably/ get around to it later.

Sounds like you’re hesitant to vote anyone because you could be wrong. But, you’re gonna be wrong on things. Happens. But waiting and seeing how things progress is…unproductive on the long run.

What does wolf Chelsea look like that we aren’t currently seeing, as you seem to know them more than me?

[Manny]

also how does me tr'ing falcon for no reason even track with me taking the path of least resistance
if im a wolf falcon seems to be part of the path of least resistance so there's no reason for me to tr there if im going for that.
unless you think im a wolf with falcon but there's no shot u actually believe that having any semblance of meta of me.

[Manny]

What does wolf Chelsea look like that we aren’t currently seeing, as you seem to know them more than me?

I actually dont recall much from the one game in which i saw w!Chelsea cuz it happened more than a year ago alr but my reason to not townread her is mostly paranoia fuel and townreading enough other people.
and more than "being wrong" is a "being wrong on an active player" which feels a lot worse considering the amount of people not doing much here shrug, dont really do well in threadtstates like these.