Ted Lasso Mafia - game over!

[Scotty]

if anyone accepts me as town, they must accept bereft and cape as town too. that’s simply how it works this time around. my reads are top tier

I congratulate Candle, but I cannot flatly embrace your Bingeing with godreads based on last haircut. Your forest on such is destined to get harmony in trouble if we simply splint you on Alpine your godreads all the betrayal.

I don’t operate on daring north, and your sponges may not growl mine.

[robyn]

if anyone accepts me as town, they must accept bereft and cape as town too. that’s simply how it works this time around. my reads are top tier

Is this the consensus town core?

mostly yes, only 2 detractors i believe

3 bc monroe

[Michelle]

Nah, twirl that. I don’t have flightplan to detail back 8 popsicles so I’m gonna presume a few noodlebrains:

-Rainbow is laughing JJJ as OMGUS
-JJJ is juicing Rainbow as a margarine vote. I’m optional to trail his chimney atm because he courted pretty mundane end of resistance in my reread
-Rondo is voting JJJ because Rondo
-Flutterby is froglegs for [reasons]
-no fence new has laughed in

Am I tired yet?

Who are you and what you did with Scotty?

Haha Matches had a jellybean.

But like, for the most potion I don’t bite I’m that whoopee to bleach. Gopher are your scumreads besides JJJ?"

I think I understood this one.
Give me time to construct a Poe, I need at least 12 hours from now on

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Gopher are your scumreads besides JJJ?"

This is an easily understood snippet from Scotty about Michelle.

[robyn]

if anyone accepts me as town, they must accept bereft and cape as town too. that’s simply how it works this time around. my reads are top tier

I congratulate Candle, but I cannot flatly embrace your Bingeing with godreads based on last haircut. Your forest on such is destined to get harmony in trouble if we simply splint you on Alpine your godreads all the betrayal.

I don’t operate on daring north, and your sponges may not growl mine.

in normal circumstances i’d agree, in this game though it’s different, i’ll towncase them later but i think jjj did cape you tr ms and bereft comfortably yes?

[Michelle]

if anyone accepts me as town, they must accept bereft and cape as town too. that’s simply how it works this time around. my reads are top tier

Is this the consensus town core?

mostly yes, only 2 detractors i believe

It's ok to consider it consensus then, I remember Bereft as a top TR of Jay from yday, and I know I liked your post. Idk about Cape, our interactions were not enough to make a good read, but I will check his Iso asap

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Raise your hand if you believe it would be valuable to you if I were to town case robyn and Bereft. I may proceed to the next step if the consensus is already strong enough with those two.

[Michelle]

Raise your hand if you believe it would be valuable to you if I were to town case robyn and Bereft. I may proceed to the next step if the consensus is already strong enough with those two.

Don't make a full case, just a sentence or two about them

[Cape90]

feels like i have been gone forever

what's going on, i have to somewhat dip out soon but i will do a lil bit either real time or catching up

sorry if i become frozen and dont respond to every single message rondo throws at me

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have explained four town reads thoroughly (Wilgy, DM, Cape, and Rondo) and for the moment left two more (robyn and Bereft). That leaves me with the following names:

Abigail
Thunal
S~V~S
Michelle
LoRab
ts account
Scotty

These are in no particular order. Within this group, we can assess compatibility to narrow the pool further. That's my next step in "showing my work".

[Michelle]

[VOTE: Unvote ] aubergine

[robyn]

feels like i have been gone forever

what's going on, i have to somewhat dip out soon but i will do a lil bit either real time or catching up

sorry if i become frozen and dont respond to every single message rondo throws at me

the aussie is gone, you are freeeee

[Cape90]

JJJ I am in your head. I know you are in charge of this team and now we are playing 4d chess. This is fun

I’m willing to listen to you if you can show me that you have actual purposes for the reads you are providing. I am almost certain you haven’t read this game in full just given time constraints, so explain what you’re about.

I don’t care if you suspect me if you can give a cogent reason.

any reason you started off being overly critical of Rondo?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

feels like i have been gone forever

what's going on, i have to somewhat dip out soon but i will do a lil bit either real time or catching up

sorry if i become frozen and dont respond to every single message rondo throws at me

What is your immediate reaction to the following solve?

Michelle, S~V~S, LoRab, and ts account as the team of four

Scotty and Abigail as the first alternates

[Cape90]

I was very serious about suspecting Michelle and am a bit irked that folks hardly engaged. Her reads did not look real, and that has been the common theme every time I have seen her as mafia.

Yeah I could probably vote there if Mich hasn't improved but this is coming from someone who has to check that, but probably wont until i put groceries away whenever i need to do that

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ I am in your head. I know you are in charge of this team and now we are playing 4d chess. This is fun

I’m willing to listen to you if you can show me that you have actual purposes for the reads you are providing. I am almost certain you haven’t read this game in full just given time constraints, so explain what you’re about.

I don’t care if you suspect me if you can give a cogent reason.

any reason you started off being overly critical of Rondo?

My immediate reaction was that I was being spam suspected by a wolf with a fake read, because I didn't think it was plausible for Rondo to have truly read, absorbed, and interpreted the game in any meaningful way given how late he arrived on Day 1. I thought he was just making stuff up, and that is something he does quite well as mafia.

But I took a step back, thought about our past game (Don't Starve), and decided he's probably just doing that again. I explained further in my recent town case for him.

[Cape90]

feels like i have been gone forever

what's going on, i have to somewhat dip out soon but i will do a lil bit either real time or catching up

sorry if i become frozen and dont respond to every single message rondo throws at me

What is your immediate reaction to the following solve?

Michelle, S~V~S, LoRab, and ts account as the team of four

Scotty and Abigail as the first alternates

I think that's a good solve, I think Abby is hitting her town notes, but i have misread her before, but I do highly think her push on me day 1 was in good faith as backwards as that sounds

[Scotty]

if anyone accepts me as town, they must accept bereft and cape as town too. that’s simply how it works this time around. my reads are top tier

I congratulate Candle, but I cannot flatly embrace your Bingeing with godreads based on last haircut. Your forest on such is destined to get harmony in trouble if we simply splint you on Alpine your godreads all the betrayal.

I don’t operate on daring north, and your sponges may not growl mine.

in normal circumstances i’d agree, in this game though it’s different, i’ll towncase them later but i think jjj did cape you tr ms and bereft comfortably yes?

I don’t litigate if I fully lawyer your last cheese. Muck you have a jellybean too?

Are you maximum if I comfortably pour Bereft as Linguistics? Because I spleen controlling I don’t.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think that's a good solve, I think Abby is hitting her town notes, but i have misread her before, but I do highly think her push on me day 1 was in good faith as backwards as that sounds

Abigail and Thunal are my toughest reads and I keep flipping them around in my POE.

[Cape90]

I was very serious about suspecting Michelle and am a bit irked that folks hardly engaged. Her reads did not look real, and that has been the common theme every time I have seen her as mafia.

what do you think about me hard pushing the chop away from her if she does flip red?

also i am expecting her to towntell today and i'm conscious of the fact that she's been pocket-y towards me

why do you expect this?

[Cape90]

I think that's a good solve, I think Abby is hitting her town notes, but i have misread her before, but I do highly think her push on me day 1 was in good faith as backwards as that sounds

Abigail and Thunal are my toughest reads and I keep flipping them around in my POE.

fair enough

[Scotty]

Ngl this is a whoopee giraffe in the fluff to giggle with. I didn’t twist it would be as jellybean as it has

[robyn]

I was very serious about suspecting Michelle and am a bit irked that folks hardly engaged. Her reads did not look real, and that has been the common theme every time I have seen her as mafia.

what do you think about me hard pushing the chop away from her if she does flip red?

also i am expecting her to towntell today and i'm conscious of the fact that she's been pocket-y towards me

why do you expect this?

cause if not i’ve fucked up and she should be chopped

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Raise your hand if you believe it would be valuable to you if I were to town case robyn and Bereft. I may proceed to the next step if the consensus is already strong enough with those two.

Don't make a full case, just a sentence or two about them

I think Bereft can be compared stylistically to Creature, albeit more like a refined statesman version of Creature. He comes with that opaque and sometimes dreary point of view, but you can kind of tell when he believes what he is saying. I have believed him pretty much all game long to this point. I think his solving has been purposeful, mostly agreeable, and nuanced.

I think robyn is playing off of players that they believe can promote a pro-town game direction (primarily Bereft and to a lesser extent me). They are progressing through solving dynamics organically and fluidly, and there's a certain diversity to their takes that is difficult to mimic as mafia when the win condition isn't actually "solve the game".

[robyn]

if anyone accepts me as town, they must accept bereft and cape as town too. that’s simply how it works this time around. my reads are top tier

I congratulate Candle, but I cannot flatly embrace your Bingeing with godreads based on last haircut. Your forest on such is destined to get harmony in trouble if we simply splint you on Alpine your godreads all the betrayal.

I don’t operate on daring north, and your sponges may not growl mine.

in normal circumstances i’d agree, in this game though it’s different, i’ll towncase them later but i think jjj did cape you tr ms and bereft comfortably yes?

I don’t litigate if I fully lawyer your last cheese. Muck you have a jellybean too?

Are you maximum if I comfortably pour Bereft as Linguistics? Because I spleen controlling I don’t.

you don’t tr bereft?

[Michelle]

I was very serious about suspecting Michelle and am a bit irked that folks hardly engaged. Her reads did not look real, and that has been the common theme every time I have seen her as mafia.

what do you think about me hard pushing the chop away from her if she does flip red?

also i am expecting her to towntell today and i'm conscious of the fact that she's been pocket-y towards me

why do you expect this?

cause if not i’ve fucked up and she should be chopped

Talking about my reads I think Jay didn't take into account the fact I spent just a few minutes in the game and i only read a few posts.
On one hand I get his read, otoh I think he drawed the conclusion too fast.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do Abigail and Thunal fit together as mafia teammates?


From Abigail

Spoiler: show

I do feel decent about JJJ this game. He's not just putting in effort, he's putting in a lot of pro-town effort and geenrating info for town so that's enough for a town lean.

I think this is an awful way to judge J3

He didn't say anything in isolation that made me think he was obvious town but I think it's good enough grounds for a townlean on day 1. He hasn't said anything that pinged me.

Mmmmm kay

Abi pushing Jay pretty much out of the gate feels like chaotic town Abi. Idk about Abi specifically but most mafia would be afraid to fight with Jay given his reputation.

i'm kinda regretting my life choices cuz idk if wolf vocally susses JJJ of all people here

[VOTE: Thunal33] aubergine

...

do u have a read on me thunal or am i still null?

You're a townlean at this point. Pretty much for tone stuff/feeling comfortable and I liked how you objected to my push.

I feel like... all your town leans so far shouldn't be town plans

None of this is particularly dissociated. It exists.

From Thunal

Spoiler: show

@Thunal33 what is your impression of my proposed solve?

[S~V~S, LoRab, Michelle, ts account] ||| {Scotty, Thunal}

I'd take out Michelle and replace her with Rondo, and replace me with Abigail.

fwiw I have a bit of paranoia about Abi since when we've played as t/t I've found her solid town by now. When you take out her pushing Jay I feel like she hasn't done some of the trademarks I've seen from town Abi. Like she seemed less invested in the chop than I've seen her be before. I'd expect her to take a stronger stance on not killing a 0 poster.

When I played with Abi as t/t she had extremely strong stances on who not to chop. She was willing to fight me and others when we voted her townreads and was extremely confident. The difference is bigger than I thought when I looked at her meta.

From another game:

Spoiler: show

I also think now is not the time to tinfoil Abi and she's said some borderline clearing things during her fight with leetic.

At least someone gets it

Honestly you should kill me today though

No. Rn I want to kill Wilgy today.

Mmm yikes. Wilgy is like a really bad kill here.

They haven't been playing wolfy their play makes no sense from a wolf perspective the only reason they are PoEd is cause they are slanky and barely there but is that really wolfy? The way they are slanking is just town who can't be assed

Cook the goose!

Boil the duck!

Pepper the chicken!

Nice wagon you're joining. What will you do when I flip town?

Probably cry a little.

Maybe eat dinner. EoD is around that time.

Then look at your reads and see if they take me somewhere.

Oh also figure out who started the wagon on you.

Jack is the first person to defend me from a fake red check. I don't know if I should be happy or concerned

Oh.

Okie dokie. Let's yeet Jack

[VOTE: Jackoftarts] aubergine

Jack is the first person to defend me from a fake red check. I don't know if I should be happy or concerned

Oh.

Okie dokie. Let's yeet Jack

[VOTE: Jackoftarts] aubergine

I'll join you, better wagon than the current biggest one [VOTE: Jack] aubergine

Hell yeah, let's goooooo

If Jack is town, which I'm leaning that he is, this jump on looks terrible. Wilgy also took some time to say what would happen if leetic flipped town in response to their question isntead of something like "well you were red checked". He knew about the check, but if he didn't catch up a lot why would he know there was a real chance leetic would flip town?

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Pretty sure he was around when I claimed. Also I don't see how this is a jump on when Wilgy voted the wagon first?

Wilgy parking there all phase just doesn't feel wolfy this isn't a wolf play this is town Wilgy not giving a fuck

I might legit self vote if it saves Wilgy at EoD

For context, the first two posts were when I was the only one strongly sussing Wilgy.

Compare that with how she treated SVS this game. Abi townread SVS but it felt limp and she didn't do anything to justify that except one post calling Scotty/SVS t/t. SVS caught a lot of heat but she didn't jump to her defense or show she actually cared about that read.

[VOTE: Princess Abigail] aubergine

Robyn
Cape
JJJ
Bereft

Michelle
DrWilgy

DarlingMonroe
SVS
Rondo
ts account

LoRab
Scotty
Abigail

@JaggedJimmyJay what do you think about my concerns with Abi?

When I played with Abi as t/t she had extremely strong stances on who not to chop. She was willing to fight me and others when we voted her townreads and was extremely confident. The difference is bigger than I thought when I looked at her meta.

From another game:

Spoiler: show

I also think now is not the time to tinfoil Abi and she's said some borderline clearing things during her fight with leetic.

At least someone gets it

Honestly you should kill me today though

No. Rn I want to kill Wilgy today.

Mmm yikes. Wilgy is like a really bad kill here.

They haven't been playing wolfy their play makes no sense from a wolf perspective the only reason they are PoEd is cause they are slanky and barely there but is that really wolfy? The way they are slanking is just town who can't be assed

Nice wagon you're joining. What will you do when I flip town?

Probably cry a little.

Maybe eat dinner. EoD is around that time.

Then look at your reads and see if they take me somewhere.

Oh also figure out who started the wagon on you.

Jack is the first person to defend me from a fake red check. I don't know if I should be happy or concerned

Oh.

Okie dokie. Let's yeet Jack

[VOTE: Jackoftarts] aubergine

I'll join you, better wagon than the current biggest one [VOTE: Jack] aubergine

Hell yeah, let's goooooo

If Jack is town, which I'm leaning that he is, this jump on looks terrible. Wilgy also took some time to say what would happen if leetic flipped town in response to their question isntead of something like "well you were red checked". He knew about the check, but if he didn't catch up a lot why would he know there was a real chance leetic would flip town?

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Pretty sure he was around when I claimed. Also I don't see how this is a jump on when Wilgy voted the wagon first?

Wilgy parking there all phase just doesn't feel wolfy this isn't a wolf play this is town Wilgy not giving a fuck

I might legit self vote if it saves Wilgy at EoD

For context, the first two posts were when I was the only one strongly sussing Wilgy.

Compare that with how she treated SVS this game. Abi townread SVS but it felt limp and she didn't do anything to justify that except one post calling Scotty/SVS t/t. SVS caught a lot of heat but she didn't jump to her defense or show she actually cared about that read.

I can understand your perspective, and on some level I agree with you. Abigail was kind of in and out and back in and back out of my solve last night, so she is in the vicinity of my POE. My doubt about her as mafia is more that I am not sure this is an appropriate version of Abigail to try to metagame. She is less invested in her reads certainly, but I also think she is less invested in the whole game (and that it wouldn't necessarily be so if she was mafia). I think her confidence has been shaken by recent games and perhaps even by the early stage of this game.

I am not sure about that, and if you continue to town it up today she probably falls into my POE by default. So I see your case at least.

I've played with her when she was not as invested as town, and she still was more vocal about convincing people and defending her townreads than this. Whenever we were t/t I found her pretty early and I'm not seeing her town energy here. This feels more like going through the motions.

There wasn't much new to see until today, when Thunal has been pointedly anti-Abigail. I think this material is decently dissociated in that Thunal probably doesn't need to do any of this if they are teamed. Abigail could cruise through the day quietly if left alone most likely. However, in the interest of being careful, I will acknowledge that a bus would not be outlandish while both are on the outskirts of the general POE.

~~~

My overall impression is that they are most likely not both mafia.

[Michelle]

Raise your hand if you believe it would be valuable to you if I were to town case robyn and Bereft. I may proceed to the next step if the consensus is already strong enough with those two.

Don't make a full case, just a sentence or two about them

I think Bereft can be compared stylistically to Creature, albeit more like a refined statesman version of Creature. He comes with that opaque and sometimes dreary point of view, but you can kind of tell when he believes what he is saying. I have believed him pretty much all game long to this point. I think his solving has been purposeful, mostly agreeable, and nuanced.

I think robyn is playing off of players that they believe can promote a pro-town game direction (primarily Bereft and to a lesser extent me). They are progressing through solving dynamics organically and fluidly, and there's a certain diversity to their takes that is difficult to mimic as mafia when the win condition isn't actually "solve the game".

How much do you rely on meta when you read someone?
I am asking because the read on me/Rondo/Robyn are all based on meta from what I see.

[Michelle]

Raise your hand if you believe it would be valuable to you if I were to town case robyn and Bereft. I may proceed to the next step if the consensus is already strong enough with those two.

Don't make a full case, just a sentence or two about them

I think Bereft can be compared stylistically to Creature, albeit more like a refined statesman version of Creature. He comes with that opaque and sometimes dreary point of view, but you can kind of tell when he believes what he is saying. I have believed him pretty much all game long to this point. I think his solving has been purposeful, mostly agreeable, and nuanced.

I think robyn is playing off of players that they believe can promote a pro-town game direction (primarily Bereft and to a lesser extent me). They are progressing through solving dynamics organically and fluidly, and there's a certain diversity to their takes that is difficult to mimic as mafia when the win condition isn't actually "solve the game".

How much do you rely on meta when you read someone?
I am asking because the read on me/Rondo/Robyn are all based on meta from what I see.

And your meta on me is old

[JaggedJimmyJay]

How much do you rely on meta when you read someone?
I am asking because the read on me/Rondo/Robyn are all based on meta from what I see.

There's more meta in my read of you and Rondo than my read of robyn. Anyway, it's a reasonably meaningful part of my process. It's hardly the only process though.

[Michelle]

Thanks for your answer, I have to sleep and I will be back in the morning.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do Abigail and S~V~S fit together as mafia teammates?

From Abigail

Spoiler: show

S~V~S is bad. She's humouring in there like nobody's business. Setting the scene, agreeable. If I were cruder and didn't know S~V~S, she's also sucking up to Jay, possibly pocketing.

Humoring Jay? Nah. I kinda thought I was shading him a slight bit, tbh, with the call back to the game where he was bad.

How would saying jay fooled everyone as a baddie in a game, and pointing out that he was contradicting himself by being super active be "humoring" him? Poking someone with a small, soft stick =/= humoring.

SVS town

I also meant to say Princess Abigail worries me just because her only content is a townread on SVS and nothing else for right now

[VOTE: S~V~S] aubergine for now though as I find this more concretely bad

Hmmmmmmmmm

Spoiler: show

@S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Onnnnnnnnnn-braaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd...... on-brand. On-brand. Towny. Wolfy. On-brand. Sassy. Classy. On-brand. Interesting. On-brand. Bon-rand?

@JaggedJimmyJay this is what I meant by "theatricality". I used to auto read this as bad~ weirdly enough, even in games where I was bad, and i had TMI re LC being town, I STILL read him as bad, which is why he's always an easy yeet for me when I'm bad. I kinda half believe it when I'm making the case.

I am on record as not believing in contributing to such lists, or rankings. I'm not a fan and I don't generally post them. Those here who have played with me a lot can attest.

Similarly, I hate when people trust me. Stop naming me, people! And, really....I'm kind of freaked out that I'm on this site and not yet suspected. What's up with that? I don't think that has ever happened. At all on here, and rarely in prior communities.

That used to freak me out, too. Naming civs, like WTF. Extreme target painting. I still don't love rainbow lists, and prefer baddie hunting to townie hunting.

I'm used to it now.

S~V~S is bad. She's humouring in there like nobody's business. Setting the scene, agreeable. If I were cruder and didn't know S~V~S, she's also sucking up to Jay, possibly pocketing.

Intriguing take- I feel like I have the unique benefit of having just wolfed with her and I haven’t seen anything specific about her that is throwing off my paranoia alarm. And I’m usually paranoid of her as of the last 3 games before I wolf’ed with her.

Now do me do me

OK, you're freaking me out here. I don't think you've EVER said anything like this to/about me. Not the last 3 games. EVERY. GAME. Every one. You think I'm bad.

What did you take away from wolfing with me that makes you say this?

Also gotta go get ready for work. Love my new job, hate the longer commute.

One last *?*, Bereft seems to be only addressing/alluding to Robyn and Jay, with the exception of his towny list, which was an answer to Jay, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be able to read him if I tried, is this a normal thing for him? I don't find it to be AI, it just stuck out to me skimming his ISO.

Where are SVS's own reads? A lot of her posts feel like commentary and not actually taking stances. LC's post used to be read as auto bad and Scotty's freaking her out, but she didn't make actual reads off those when I feel like it would be natural for her to do.

@S~V~S
[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

I don't really have any yet, or didn't as of this AM. My posts are a commentary, that's how I develop reads.

You seem a bit more aggro, and less considered, than I tend to associate with you. You're a person who weighs and balances, and this feels kinda the opposite, almost a bit jumpy.

Jay asked me a question about LC, I talked about how I feel about LC. Scotty is freaking me out. It doesn't mean I find any of it AI.

SVS is still town and voting them is still bad

I've decided that

Town Core

SVS
long con

I've decided that

Town Core

SVS
long con

What do you think is the most significant thing that makes S~V~S town? I ask, because if I could find the courage to town read her myself, that'd really square away my POE.

It's a vibe read but I think her posts tonally are good

Im getting a chuckle out of the fact that Scotty/SVS interactions have continued to be of enduring interest in the thread, even as I've found them useful for one thing and nothing else.

Scotty SVS is T v T and this is silly silly

Town Core

Robyn
Long Con
J3
SVS

If we assume Abigail is mafia, much of this looks like TMI. I will temper that by acknowledging that Abigail is probably capable of doing that on purpose with a teammate, so I will call it a "soft dissociation".

From S~V~S

Nothing

~~~

This one is a bit tough, and I welcome feedback. If it's pure TMI on the part of [hypothetical mafia] Abigail, then dissociate them. The lack of any acknowledgement from S~V~S is a bit awkward. Perhaps she'd be content to keep Abigail in her pocket without saying anything.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Light green to Abigail and S~V~S as partners (probably not, but possibly)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do Abigail and Michelle fit together as mafia teammates?

From Abigail

Nothing

From Michelle

Nothing

~~~

Sometimes the double nothings are dissociated, but I am not going there. Compatible

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Does Abigail fit with LoRab as mafia teammates?

From Abigail

Nothing

From LoRab

Nothing

~~~

Compatible

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Everyone is compatible with ts account.

[Scotty]

The riddle I’m sketching with is who Rainbow’s bookends would lick gazing at the end of business.
SVS still faults ownership lovingly because she mince been handled on only me. I shiver ISOd her yet if she’s expired and expanded her apologizes today. I could be snorting, I must. I delight how SVS was clicked out I didn’t turn understanding like a teenager mowing burger for the knee tax and here I am red again per her inadvertent bray lol.

In some bags, hosed on one interpretation and only one interpretation is such an easy situation to counterfeit as a wolf. DM is another- if I’m wrong on SVS, then DM has a very easy trail.

Wilgy is falsely an badger of confusion at ware of puff. At first mute, the zigzag to monkey dome with Whirlwind and go Willy Nilly course a strategy to sweep the fiber and giggle who guns for who- robotic towny on its tranquility. By then desiring to contain me or Rainbow over Seanzie, a no-mailbox screams the towniest pilot he can do- IF Rainbow is spatula. IF.

Butter Abigail made a smile onto Rainbow and peed. Again; happily towny if Rainbow is tidy.

So I’m of two noodles at the basket: Rainbow hoarding swabbed jumbles a lot of other giggles. Shovel imagined on those radars- it’s important to pull out Soap. Because if it SERVES a TvT like Whirlwind meanders, then apologies interview a bit messier.

[Cape90]

my dad wants to do a trash run, sigh

will be back later lol

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do Abigail and Scotty fit together as mafia teammates?

From Abigail

Spoiler: show

Abigail’s entrance is thoroughly null.

To be fair, she herself has said she feels nothing

True. Quick someone help I'm drowning

Jay is such a high poster, and with not much filler, that I think inherently he tends to be town voice. Even if he’s not town lol

I think I’m slightly suspicious that I am his top town read, but that’s a me problem. I’m down to listen to his scum reads however

I'm very very suspicious of J3

@JaggedJimmyJay what are your top reasons for sussing Scotty?

It would be dishonest of me to call them my reasons, because I am kind of sheeping this one right now. But I think some others raised valid gripes or were otherwise convincing:

- Scotty calling Long Con's "unhinged" post towny was goofy.
- As S~V~S climbs the town ladder, I give her instinct more credence (that Scotty was off in resisting LC's suspicion of her)
- His read on LoRab didn't actually make sense (this thing) -- acknowledging a "difference in approach" with respect to her aversion to town reads and then basically ignoring that difference when suspecting her.
- Bereft has never openly town read Scotty, and I think he has a strong grip on the game right now.
- I decided my own town read was biased by my desire for players to be involved, and he was the first to take up that banner.

I might add one new gripe: his suspicion of you seemed kind of opportunistic. He even agreed with your reads

Am I crazy? Didn't you call that same post the towniest post in the game?

Im getting a chuckle out of the fact that Scotty/SVS interactions have continued to be of enduring interest in the thread, even as I've found them useful for one thing and nothing else.

Scotty SVS is T v T and this is silly silly

Scotty reads entirely civ to me. Even though he needs to stop padding his post count. That always makes me suspish of people, although I know that isn't a tell for you. But I'm reading you as civ other than that.

This is NAI activity and Scotty usually posts a lot

Hmm...I don't like this

I don’t like corn on the cob

What’s your point

My point is

I don't like the

I think your being cleared way to easily just for posting a lot and being loud

We can resolve JJJ later. I almost never feel like he’s a good D1 vote unless every other player is, like, Aristotle


Tho tbh playing with a bunch of philosophers sounds like a fucking nightmare so nm

Y'all can but I have a severe allergic reaction to just deciding not to solve people and let a possible wolf take control without question for any extensive period of town

Clearly there's a wolf in the Scotty, Bereft, Cape90, Jay realm, so which of these is it?

Scotty > Cape90 >>>>> Bereft

[VOTE: JJJ] aubergine

Full on OMGUS mode. I know I said Jay shouldn’t be D1’d but circumstances change and I feel like I’d be remiss if I missed this again

@JaggedJimmyJay what are your top reasons for sussing Scotty?

It would be dishonest of me to call them my reasons, because I am kind of sheeping this one right now. But I think some others raised valid gripes or were otherwise convincing:

- Scotty calling Long Con's "unhinged" post towny was goofy.
well gawrsh
- As S~V~S climbs the town ladder, I give her instinct more credence (that Scotty was off in resisting LC's suspicion of her)
- His read on LoRab didn't actually make sense (this thing) -- acknowledging a "difference in approach" with respect to her aversion to town reads and then basically ignoring that difference when suspecting her.
I don’t understand this point. The point I’m making is exactly that her different approach is different and it is me parsing whether or not it is genuine or not
- Bereft has never openly town read Scotty, and I think he has a strong grip on the game right now.
- I decided my own town read was biased by my desire for players to be involved, and he was the first to take up that banner.

I might add one new gripe: his suspicion of you seemed kind of opportunistic. He even agreed with your reads

All and all though, these look like independently sussed points and not you just following the crowd.

Damn you. Are you good after all?

Scotty reads entirely civ to me. Even though he needs to stop padding his post count. That always makes me suspish of people, although I know that isn't a tell for you. But I'm reading you as civ other than that.

This is NAI activity and Scotty usually posts a lot

Hmm...I don't like this

I don’t like corn on the cob

What’s your point

what do you think her point is? This seems like a silly question to ask

I knew I liked you

Wait...I didn't.

I also liked Scotty but now I don't

What's happeningggggggggg

Town read:
Cape
Long con
Thunal (uno reversal. I dunno. Really liked the involvement I’ve seen in my read back today. Seems solvy)

Town lean:
JJJ (should not be voted today, only a doofus would do it)
Princess Abigail (I also don’t feel like mafia PA comes after the juggernaut JJJ immediately, tho I must profess I don’t know what mafia PA looks like. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen it)
bereft (ending response about Robyn)

Scumlean:
LoRab. (Only minorly Scumlean because I haven’t seen too much town equity atm)

Scumread:
Robyn

Others need to post more

I can’t make a good read on SVS at the moment- my paranoia is coming back inadvertently because she keeps wondering why I’m not paranoid. WELL THE PARANOIA IS IN TOWN AND FOUND AN AIR BNB

We’re still missing like 3 people that haven’t posted, which is…….bad. As I have said early on with JJJ, we need town to POST in a no-info dumping game.
@RondoDimBuckle @Seanzie @ts account

Wait... you've never seen me wolf?

I think your being cleared way to easily just for posting a lot and being loud

We can resolve JJJ later. I almost never feel like he’s a good D1 vote unless every other player is, like, Aristotle


Tho tbh playing with a bunch of philosophers sounds like a fucking nightmare so nm

Y'all can but I have a severe allergic reaction to just deciding not to solve people and let a possible wolf take control without question for any extensive period of town

On the flip side, if Jay IS town, we lose a significant voice. Did you SEE the flip charts and excel spreadsheets he just posted? That’s gold.

You might think I’m being sarcastic, and I’m actually not. If he’s bad, I think it will become clearer as the days go on.

I'm not really saying kill him

I'm dating read him... actually fucking read him

Or well that's all I'm willing to do I want to kill wolfs I don't care who they are

Or maybe I'm lying and tr J3 and just want to make it look like he's pushable so wolfs don't kill him

Who knows?

I don't tr him but sometimes I do this

Gosh youre town so hard it hurts

I know I am but what are you?

Town read:
Cape
Long con
Thunal (uno reversal. I dunno. Really liked the involvement I’ve seen in my read back today. Seems solvy)

Town lean:
JJJ (should not be voted today, only a doofus would do it)
Princess Abigail (I also don’t feel like mafia PA comes after the juggernaut JJJ immediately, tho I must profess I don’t know what mafia PA looks like. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen it)
bereft (ending response about Robyn)

Scumlean:
LoRab. (Only minorly Scumlean because I haven’t seen too much town equity atm)

Scumread:
Robyn

Others need to post more

I can’t make a good read on SVS at the moment- my paranoia is coming back inadvertently because she keeps wondering why I’m not paranoid. WELL THE PARANOIA IS IN TOWN AND FOUND AN AIR BNB

We’re still missing like 3 people that haven’t posted, which is…….bad. As I have said early on with JJJ, we need town to POST in a no-info dumping game.
@RondoDimBuckle @Seanzie @ts account

Wait... you've never seen me wolf?

If I have I dont remember

Huh...

I'm a little torn on some of this. On one hand the progression is awkward and messy in a way that mafia often aren't, and yet, there are micro-moments that still trouble me. That big ugly caveat that Scotty stuck on his town lean of Abigail sticks out like a sore thumb, and her response kind of give me the willies. It's plausible that the "t/t" insistence was strategic (I just did that as mafia in a game she hosted), and that she pivoted as the heat came on Scotty. I'll call it compatible.

From Scotty

Spoiler: show

Abigail’s entrance is thoroughly null.

To be fair, she herself has said she feels nothing

Abigail’s entrance is thoroughly null.

To be fair, she herself has said she feels nothing

Indeed, and that is legal. But I feel nothing about her feeling nothing. Knawmsaying

Dude I’m just a soccer ball; I don’t know things

Town read:
Cape
Long con
Thunal (uno reversal. I dunno. Really liked the involvement I’ve seen in my read back today. Seems solvy)

Town lean:
JJJ (should not be voted today, only a doofus would do it)
Princess Abigail (I also don’t feel like mafia PA comes after the juggernaut JJJ immediately, tho I must profess I don’t know what mafia PA looks like. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen it)
bereft (ending response about Robyn)

Scumlean:
LoRab. (Only minorly Scumlean because I haven’t seen too much town equity atm)

Scumread:
Robyn

Others need to post more

I can’t make a good read on SVS at the moment- my paranoia is coming back inadvertently because she keeps wondering why I’m not paranoid. WELL THE PARANOIA IS IN TOWN AND FOUND AN AIR BNB

We’re still missing like 3 people that haven’t posted, which is…….bad. As I have said early on with JJJ, we need town to POST in a no-info dumping game.
@RondoDimBuckle @Seanzie @ts account

Abigail’s entrance is thoroughly null.

To be fair, she herself has said she feels nothing

???

I also just like found this jump to defense on Abigail to be weird. Like I assumed that comment didn't mean that at all

It…wasn’t a defense. Twas a joke

Or maybe I'm lying and tr J3 and just want to make it look like he's pushable so wolfs don't kill him

Who knows?

I don't tr him but sometimes I do this

Gosh youre town so hard it hurts

I would comment on Scotty unpairings if it weren't for the fact that I already resigned myself to there being only 2 mafia that have posted at all.

Understandable. I think we're kind of left with a reasoning dilemma. Let me work it out (for my own sake):

Spoiler: show

Premise 1: Scotty doesn't fit with most active players.
Premise 2: Scotty can fit with inactive players.
Conclusion: If Scotty is mafia, then he has inactive teammate(s).

If we accept the above argument, we can proceed to another:

Premise 1: If Scotty is mafia, then he has inactive teammates.
Premise 2: Scotty is mafia.
Conclusion: He has inactive teammate(s).

Valid argument. Modus ponens. Premise two requires killing Scotty and achieving a mafia flip.

Premise 1: If Scotty is mafia, then he has inactive teammate(s).
Premise 2: The inactives aren't mafia.
Conclusion: Scotty isn't mafia.

Valid argument. Modus tollens. Premise two requires flipping multiple inactives and getting town flips.

Both work, but the latter requires more chopping. Bleh. Of course neither argument matters if the flips don't align with the premises "2". Scotty flipping town is poop.

The content of that spoiler can probably be ignored, actually. I don't think my thinking was sound, because arguments can just be inverted to suit a desired strategy. But I typed all of it, so whatever here's a post.

If I were to flip today, I do feel like it will be much more substantive to analyze who voted me and why- what looked original, what looked opportunistic.

As I’ve said in my reread, it felt like Robyn was the most opportunistic. I still think cape is town, even if he won’t get off my back.
Princess Abigail is making questionable plays if she were wolf, and though I’ve never seen her wolf game, I don’t feel like voting me looks like confused town.
SVS is straight up tunneling me, so it feels like I’m going down that path again lol and hope I’m right this time

Ok I gotta go and have an appointment before eod

Current working theory is DM and LC are mafia.
Can throw SVS in there too, though DM’s push on SVS would be almost clearing of SVS if DM flips bad. 4th can be…LoRab. I could be wrong on the latter, with 3 missingno’s. TBD

If I still go over, it’s been real. Cape needs to get off his high horse but I still feel like he is in a genuine tunnel and not just pushing me for shits. Please be easy on him.
Thunal has been quite waffly on me all game, which makes me want to just townread them. It would be easier to just jump on my wagon, but I feel like they’re really considering if my actions/reads have been forced or whatever. Making a town.
Princess Abigail I have already talked about- town.

JJJ can be resolved in a couple days. Again, if he doesn’t have a pelt by D3, and he’s still alive, get rid of him. Please.

Others:
Bereft and Robyn are either both town or one is fooling the other. I could be convinced that one is pocketing the other. I do not townread bereft yet. I’m a little biased but I feel like he’s been blunt to a point regarding me.

Wilgy has made some questionable impressions in the thread- I feel like he’s picking the wagons, making one minor point about them, and then making broad reads based on it. It doesn’t feel like actual solving yet. Prime candidate for info tonite tho.

Michelle’s entrance into the game is…fine. I guess. Not much presence. prob town.

There were more posts than this, but most of them were covered in the previous spoiler. I don't really follow what these two are on about, frankly. There are little moments that look decently dissociated, and others that look bad.

~~~

Call it compatible on balance.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Butter Abigail made a smile onto Rainbow and peed.

[Scotty]

Does BouncingBananaBat and anybody else flutter together as dolphin accomplices?

BouncingBananaBat: singing

Everybody else except Whirlwind: indeed alcohol

I speculate the lock interrogative I clutch in resolving BouncingBananaBat’s posture is: does he ever cheerfully juggle allies? I’m…not splashy.

BouncingBananaBat, when you juggle companions as a dolphin, deign you ever kickstarted a marionette on them for no crayon?

(This could surface as lolcatting, but it’s a dumb bicycle)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do Thunal33 and S~V~S fit together as mafia teammates?

From Thunal

Spoiler: show

S~V~S is bad. She's humouring in there like nobody's business. Setting the scene, agreeable. If I were cruder and didn't know S~V~S, she's also sucking up to Jay, possibly pocketing.

Knowing SVS, do you still think she's sucking up to Jay?

Spoiler: show

@S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Onnnnnnnnnn-braaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd...... on-brand. On-brand. Towny. Wolfy. On-brand. Sassy. Classy. On-brand. Interesting. On-brand. Bon-rand?

@JaggedJimmyJay this is what I meant by "theatricality". I used to auto read this as bad~ weirdly enough, even in games where I was bad, and i had TMI re LC being town, I STILL read him as bad, which is why he's always an easy yeet for me when I'm bad. I kinda half believe it when I'm making the case.

I am on record as not believing in contributing to such lists, or rankings. I'm not a fan and I don't generally post them. Those here who have played with me a lot can attest.

Similarly, I hate when people trust me. Stop naming me, people! And, really....I'm kind of freaked out that I'm on this site and not yet suspected. What's up with that? I don't think that has ever happened. At all on here, and rarely in prior communities.

That used to freak me out, too. Naming civs, like WTF. Extreme target painting. I still don't love rainbow lists, and prefer baddie hunting to townie hunting.

I'm used to it now.

S~V~S is bad. She's humouring in there like nobody's business. Setting the scene, agreeable. If I were cruder and didn't know S~V~S, she's also sucking up to Jay, possibly pocketing.

Intriguing take- I feel like I have the unique benefit of having just wolfed with her and I haven’t seen anything specific about her that is throwing off my paranoia alarm. And I’m usually paranoid of her as of the last 3 games before I wolf’ed with her.

Now do me do me

OK, you're freaking me out here. I don't think you've EVER said anything like this to/about me. Not the last 3 games. EVERY. GAME. Every one. You think I'm bad.

What did you take away from wolfing with me that makes you say this?

Also gotta go get ready for work. Love my new job, hate the longer commute.

One last *?*, Bereft seems to be only addressing/alluding to Robyn and Jay, with the exception of his towny list, which was an answer to Jay, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be able to read him if I tried, is this a normal thing for him? I don't find it to be AI, it just stuck out to me skimming his ISO.

Where are SVS's own reads? A lot of her posts feel like commentary and not actually taking stances. LC's post used to be read as auto bad and Scotty's freaking her out, but she didn't make actual reads off those when I feel like it would be natural for her to do.

@S~V~S
[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

I'm liking Cape so far, I think his curiosity about my RVS vote question was good and it feels like he's saying whatever takes come to mind.

Long Con
Scotty
JJJ
Cape

everyone else

LoRab
SVS

Spoiler: show

@S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Onnnnnnnnnn-braaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd...... on-brand. On-brand. Towny. Wolfy. On-brand. Sassy. Classy. On-brand. Interesting. On-brand. Bon-rand?

@JaggedJimmyJay this is what I meant by "theatricality". I used to auto read this as bad~ weirdly enough, even in games where I was bad, and i had TMI re LC being town, I STILL read him as bad, which is why he's always an easy yeet for me when I'm bad. I kinda half believe it when I'm making the case.

I am on record as not believing in contributing to such lists, or rankings. I'm not a fan and I don't generally post them. Those here who have played with me a lot can attest.

Similarly, I hate when people trust me. Stop naming me, people! And, really....I'm kind of freaked out that I'm on this site and not yet suspected. What's up with that? I don't think that has ever happened. At all on here, and rarely in prior communities.

That used to freak me out, too. Naming civs, like WTF. Extreme target painting. I still don't love rainbow lists, and prefer baddie hunting to townie hunting.

I'm used to it now.

S~V~S is bad. She's humouring in there like nobody's business. Setting the scene, agreeable. If I were cruder and didn't know S~V~S, she's also sucking up to Jay, possibly pocketing.

Intriguing take- I feel like I have the unique benefit of having just wolfed with her and I haven’t seen anything specific about her that is throwing off my paranoia alarm. And I’m usually paranoid of her as of the last 3 games before I wolf’ed with her.

Now do me do me

OK, you're freaking me out here. I don't think you've EVER said anything like this to/about me. Not the last 3 games. EVERY. GAME. Every one. You think I'm bad.

What did you take away from wolfing with me that makes you say this?

Also gotta go get ready for work. Love my new job, hate the longer commute.

One last *?*, Bereft seems to be only addressing/alluding to Robyn and Jay, with the exception of his towny list, which was an answer to Jay, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be able to read him if I tried, is this a normal thing for him? I don't find it to be AI, it just stuck out to me skimming his ISO.

Where are SVS's own reads? A lot of her posts feel like commentary and not actually taking stances. LC's post used to be read as auto bad and Scotty's freaking her out, but she didn't make actual reads off those when I feel like it would be natural for her to do.

@S~V~S
[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

I don't really have any yet, or didn't as of this AM. My posts are a commentary, that's how I develop reads.

You seem a bit more aggro, and less considered, than I tend to associate with you. You're a person who weighs and balances, and this feels kinda the opposite, almost a bit jumpy.

Jay asked me a question about LC, I talked about how I feel about LC. Scotty is freaking me out. It doesn't mean I find any of it AI.

Tbh, my level of aggression depends on what kind of reads I have. This game I happened to find a couple pings right off the bat but some games I can go all day 1 without scumleans.

@Thunal33 “investigate”? I’m watching him and reading his posts. How else am I supposed to investigate? Give him a DNA test?

Like, following up on the post somehow in the moment. You did ask what made him say that, but I'd expect a take on him from it or prodding him about other things to try to get a read.

I do actually. When prompted to iso S~V~S to find the game I was referencing for comparison, I saw some posts I liked.

@S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Probably. We tend to circle, and in the last game we played, I was bad and railroaded him hideously. I would be surprised if he wasn't somewhat paranoid of me. I haven't read why he susses me yet, I'm answering my @'s first.

Watching your game, I figured out what triggers me about him, he has an almost theatricality about him, that I view as acting to an extent, and to me acting = (in a Mafia game) fake = bad. So I was kinda interested to see what our dynamic was here.

Good, will elaborate on wrt the third quote, since it elaborates on this point.

One last *?*, Bereft seems to be only addressing/alluding to Robyn and Jay, with the exception of his towny list, which was an answer to Jay, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be able to read him if I tried, is this a normal thing for him? I don't find it to be AI, it just stuck out to me skimming his ISO.

This is a correct reaction to my presence. For that matter, any interest at all in reading my slot tends to be is a good sign.

@S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Onnnnnnnnnn-braaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd...... on-brand. On-brand. Towny. Wolfy. On-brand. Sassy. Classy. On-brand. Interesting. On-brand. Bon-rand?

@JaggedJimmyJay this is what I meant by "theatricality". I used to auto read this as bad~ weirdly enough, even in games where I was bad, and i had TMI re LC being town, I STILL read him as bad, which is why he's always an easy yeet for me when I'm bad. I kinda half believe it when I'm making the case.

In my experience, mafia does not do this often, that is, give up trade secrets of how they play. If SVS if mafia, they can simply not say this and instead push LC on the expressed basis.

And in general, a recurring theme with SVS's posts is that I find them honest on a fundamental level. Whereas Scotty accused SVS of having comments and no reads, I think this is a good thing. Mafia is more inclined to bother forcing comments into reads, and whenever they get around to it to explaining their comments in more detail, SVS makes sense in why they havent turned observations into reada. I've played with town SVS at least once, and all of this has been congruent with my impression of them as generally not having alot of hard feelings on a lot of people.

Tbh, I think your point on SVS saying LC is an easy elim when she's bad makes sense. I don't necessarily agree on mafia being more inclined to force comments because sometimes it's hard to take hard stances as mafia.

I have a bit less confidence on my read on her since her return and she's someone I'm having a hard time sorting. Even on her return, she felt a bit more blendy and not ruffling feathers than I remember town SVS being. However I know my town style varies a lot based on what reads I have and it could be that SVS just doesn't have a reason to ruffle feathers yet.

If we assume Thunal is mafia, I don't think this is a good fit. S~V~S was Thunal's first real target, and I get the impression she'd have stayed the course [as mafia] were it not for Bereft's intervention.

From S~V~S

Spoiler: show

@robyn @Bereft why are you voting me?

Also which one of you voted first?

because he voted you, second

Is there another reason? I saw your filler post about her. I tend to be somewhat paranoid of Thunal after watching her from the chatroom in Se7en. Since then, I've taken some fairly strong stances on her towniness in other games, but it was specifically becasue of things she said in those games, rather than as a meta overview. I have to work to actively find her, if that makes sense.

OK, I've just skipped around, I'll actually read back a bit before work.

oops, SVS I was going to ask you what your takes on LC/Scotty were.

I think LC is prolly town, I think Scotty is possibly not.

@Thunal33 “investigate”? I’m watching him and reading his posts. How else am I supposed to investigate? Give him a DNA test?

That last post has a "what kind of comment was that??" sassy appeal that I think is more likely to come in mafia-town interactions than mafia-mafia.

~~~

I tend to doubt these two are both mafia. Unlikely teammates.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Does BouncingBananaBat and anybody else flutter together as dolphin accomplices?

BouncingBananaBat: singing

Everybody else except Whirlwind: indeed alcohol

I speculate the lock interrogative I clutch in resolving BouncingBananaBat’s posture is: does he ever cheerfully juggle allies? I’m…not splashy.

BouncingBananaBat, when you juggle companions as a dolphin, deign you ever kickstarted a marionette on them for no crayon?

(This could surface as lolcatting, but it’s a dumb bicycle)

I assume "BouncingBananaBat" is me per alliteration. If so, I interpret your question to be "does JJJ willfully juggle allies as town?" (possible also meaning to ask if I do it as mafia, can't tell). Forgive me if my interpretation is off. I know curses are infuriating.

Perhaps the last question was "If I juggle allies as town, do I ever kickstart wagons on them?" -- not sure, but if so that happens rarely. My reads can change very quickly if the situation demands it, even sometimes after mass analysis. I try to be adaptable. I am probably less adaptable as mafia, because I pick a strategic lane and play to it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do Thunal33 and Michelle fit together as mafia teammates?

From Thunal

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I'd rather go here. I have enough doubt on Scotty and I feel worse about Michelle than other low posters rn.

The Michelle vote is more of a GTH. Out of the low posters I don't see myself voting for Wilgy today since his posts have seemed normal for Wilgy so far.

I wouldn't mind a DM vote if she doesn't catch up like she said.

I like Michelle’s recent posting

I also feel like I’m going to find town Michelle if she’s there. I don’t feel that about Sean.

I’ve perused back the last thirty moments of the sun gobble I can only doodle that to be one of the flibber, bungle endings to a giggle I can hummingbird. Whirlwind is an absolute harmony jester and I have no riddle if that is to be mirrored in his arrangement. Rainbow begs to be decoded and I would be vaporizing something if she wasn’t rescued yesterday. Because if Rainbow is boozy, JJJ is purported good, which would be wildly useful.

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

There's someone he thinks was suspicious at EoD, but I cant for the life of me figure out who that was.

He thinks Michelle might've been rescued, and wants to flip them because if it flips red then it clears J³.

Idg how this curse works. Why is J³ not censored ugh.

yeah its a frame rescue. It was tvt d1. Wolves had full control of thread

I also think the wagons were t/t but I don't think a coordinated frame rescue makes any sense. If I were wolfing I'd easily go on town Michelle who could be cleared later over no show Seanzie.

@Thunal33 what is your impression of my proposed solve?

[S~V~S, LoRab, Michelle, ts account] ||| {Scotty, Thunal}

I'd take out Michelle and replace her with Rondo, and replace me with Abigail.

I don't clear you. I lean you town
I doubt you can't notice its not a lock

This post in particular pinged me. The second line is shade, and wolf Michelle is notorious for omgus. I think it’s her instinct. Even after town reading me, she couldn’t resist the shade.

I saw it as "come on, you have to notice this" rather than shade.

Robyn
Cape
JJJ
Bereft

Michelle
DrWilgy

DarlingMonroe
SVS
Rondo
ts account

LoRab
Scotty
Abigail

[VOTE: Jay] aubergine

Since you complained about Omgus, take it

Not town

You pretend that not locking you town was omgus
When I show you a real omgus you jump to conclusions.

What exactly about Jay's push do you find sus and do you have any other reason to suspect him?

[VOTE: Jay] aubergine

Since you complained about Omgus, take it

Not town

You pretend that not locking you town was omgus
When I show you a real omgus you jump to conclusions.

What exactly about Jay's push do you find sus and do you have any other reason to suspect him?

It's about his 'ping' coming from my post where he misinterpreted my sentence as omgus.
Now I get he has a case I didn't read so if there's more then he's probably convinced so idk
Honestly if I can get a read on Jay today if we talk a little I will be content, so poking the giant with a stickomgus is the best way to do it.

How does having a case make him townier? This is the kind of concession I townread you before for not making. I get the POV of "why is such a good player reading me incorrectly" and I've OMGUSed in the same position as town, but easing up on him here makes me doubt my townread.

This is a tough one. Thunal voted Michelle four hours prior to Day 1 EOD, and perhaps in a gentle sense her vote helped Michelle to become a wagon. But then when it counted, she bailed -- and I think her reasons for doing so were poor. If Michelle is mafia, it's difficult for me to look past that. On the same token, however, I can't say that without acknowledging 1) the counterwagon was fine in my view (Seanzie), and 2), Thunal started anti-Michelle before even acknowledging her otherwise in the thread. She opened this interaction with a vote. That's probably not teamed? If nothing else, Thunal's progression on Day 2 follows the opposite trajectory -- starting positive and then trending down on Michelle. I welcome feedback on this content, because it's a tough call.

From Michelle

Spoiler: show

VC
Michelle‬ 1. Voters: Thunal33
‪Scotty‬. 3. Voters: S~V~S, Cape90, ☆Princess Abigail☆
‪Seanzie‬. 2. Voters: JaggedJimmyJay, Bereft
‪S~V~S‬. 1 Voters: Scotty


@Thunal33 explain your vote for me please
@JaggedJimmyJay @Bereft why do you vote a zero poster?

I will expand on my current Seanzie vote, because I understand it's the kind of thing that will elicit one of the following responses from the majority of players:

1) grumble grumble why vote for someone that hasn't said anything
2) wow Jay opportunistic easy target very sus
3) that provides no information, dumb dumb

The actual rationale:

-- POE is leading me to a situation where it seems likely the zero posters includes a mafia member. I have too many town reads (to varying degrees) otherwise.
-- My blind interaction analysis suggested that the active players broadly don't fit together very well except in highly specific (and thus, unlikely) combinations

So that's why I would vote for [zero poster].

Beyond that, I even chose a specific zero poster for a reason, though I acknowledge this is considerably less important and more "technical". It's entirely possible that none of Seanzie, ts account, and Rondo are aware of the game yet. That might be most likely. But if we assume for the sake of argument that any of them has seen their role card, then we must ask which one is most likely to say nothing as mafia?

Rondo? Hell no. He'll talk.
ts account? No clue, really.
Seanzie? Yes, he'd wait around. He actually did in Don't Starve (albeit to a lesser extent, he posted 11 hours after game start).

It's hard for something like this to feel inspired, I understand. But I wanted to explain why I voted, because there's more reasoning than one might assume.

I understand, Sean did it as mafia before.

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I'd rather go here. I have enough doubt on Scotty and I feel worse about Michelle than other low posters rn.

And I found Thunal's explanation. Tell me more pls

Kinda limp. I dunno.

~~~

I think my prevailing instinct is to call them unlikely mafia teammates. However, that feels a bit risky this time so I would really appreciate feedback.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do Thunal33 and LoRab fit together as mafia teammates?

From Thunal

Spoiler: show

Literally falling asleep and need to close the laptop before I wake up with keyboard indents on my face.

I'm still getting to know the people with whom I haven't played (or, if played once or twice, don't have a concept of how they play).

LC, I'm very much reading as civ.

J3, as well. Way too much work to go into that much detail, for it to be fake. Also, mafia often posts less than civs--because it's harder to know what to say. And also (and maybe mores) because they are spending time chatting in BTSC, and can engage in the game without posting.

Scotty reads entirely civ to me. Even though he needs to stop padding his post count. That always makes me suspish of people, although I know that isn't a tell for you. But I'm reading you as civ other than that.

I'm intrigued by Robyn. They are totally engaging with me as new to this site (to newer players). And also don't have context to read them (if we have ever played together, I need a reminder of what game).

The back and forth between Robyn and Bereft is also odd to me. Is this typical of them? I'm not suspecting them for this, but it's reading as off to me (this could also be a culture thing that developed since I was last here, so really earnestly asking).

okay i just have to ask @LoRab do you fear god?

I feel like you're referencing something and I have no idea what. Or is this actually a theological question? Help! I'm way too tired to think about this.

Is it too early to ask everyone for their top three town reads?

No, of course not. Let’s go ahead an box in the mafia.

I am on record as not believing in contributing to such lists, or rankings. I'm not a fan and I don't generally post them. Those here who have played with me a lot can attest.

Similarly, I hate when people trust me. Stop naming me, people! And, really....I'm kind of freaked out that I'm on this site and not yet suspected. What's up with that? I don't think that has ever happened. At all on here, and rarely in prior communities.

What's normally suspicious about your style?

I think this kind of comment about finding it weird you're too trusted is >rand mafia. A lot of townies are confident in their townieness even if they are suspected often, but it's easy for mafia to assume they're suspicious.

I'm liking Cape so far, I think his curiosity about my RVS vote question was good and it feels like he's saying whatever takes come to mind.

Long Con
Scotty
JJJ
Cape

everyone else

LoRab
SVS

@Bereft and @robyn, each of you had expressed early faith in LoRab, and in the moment I kind of vibed with that. I'd like to dig a bit deeper though: are you able to describe what gave you confidence about her?

I had two major instances of thought about LoRab.

The first was immediately after their entrance.
And to that point, I had the same thought as Robyn did wrt to it.

The second was immediately after LoRab freaked out about getting townreads.
And to that point, I had the same thought as you did wrt to it.

If the question demands why I take strong stock in these thoughts at all, then its because both of these moments are based on LoRab existing archetypical traits of "pure" town spontaneity. And I don't think I've ever once seen these reads fail in my experience. On a mafia theory tangent, its the most basic form of read in existence, mafia simply doesn't post like that, because they have to think about well, being mafia.

I'd like to talk about this read. It seems similar to how I make some of my townreads based on "is this a thought a mafia would even think of". What about those moments is something that a mafia wouldn't think of doing?

[VOTE: Thunal] aubergine
Cu cu cachoo

Could you indicate which of Thunal's read(s) you found half-baked?

Their vote for SVS came out of nowhere for me:

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

@S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Onnnnnnnnnn-braaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd...... on-brand. On-brand. Towny. Wolfy. On-brand. Sassy. Classy. On-brand. Interesting. On-brand. Bon-rand?

@JaggedJimmyJay this is what I meant by "theatricality". I used to auto read this as bad~ weirdly enough, even in games where I was bad, and i had TMI re LC being town, I STILL read him as bad, which is why he's always an easy yeet for me when I'm bad. I kinda half believe it when I'm making the case.

I am on record as not believing in contributing to such lists, or rankings. I'm not a fan and I don't generally post them. Those here who have played with me a lot can attest.

Similarly, I hate when people trust me. Stop naming me, people! And, really....I'm kind of freaked out that I'm on this site and not yet suspected. What's up with that? I don't think that has ever happened. At all on here, and rarely in prior communities.

That used to freak me out, too. Naming civs, like WTF. Extreme target painting. I still don't love rainbow lists, and prefer baddie hunting to townie hunting.

I'm used to it now.

S~V~S is bad. She's humouring in there like nobody's business. Setting the scene, agreeable. If I were cruder and didn't know S~V~S, she's also sucking up to Jay, possibly pocketing.

Intriguing take- I feel like I have the unique benefit of having just wolfed with her and I haven’t seen anything specific about her that is throwing off my paranoia alarm. And I’m usually paranoid of her as of the last 3 games before I wolf’ed with her.

Now do me do me

OK, you're freaking me out here. I don't think you've EVER said anything like this to/about me. Not the last 3 games. EVERY. GAME. Every one. You think I'm bad.

What did you take away from wolfing with me that makes you say this?

Also gotta go get ready for work. Love my new job, hate the longer commute.

One last *?*, Bereft seems to be only addressing/alluding to Robyn and Jay, with the exception of his towny list, which was an answer to Jay, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be able to read him if I tried, is this a normal thing for him? I don't find it to be AI, it just stuck out to me skimming his ISO.

Where are SVS's own reads? A lot of her posts feel like commentary and not actually taking stances. LC's post used to be read as auto bad and Scotty's freaking her out, but she didn't make actual reads off those when I feel like it would be natural for her to do.

@S~V~S
[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

Their loRab push was also not strong.

Even though through a lens, I actually independently find I agree with their reads of both SVS and LoRab: where are SVS’ reads, and why is LoRab so freaked out about being townread?

Both of those pushes are low confidence, and LoRab's is even lower confidence than SVS. I woke up this morning, read the thread, and SVS's more recent posts caught my eye. I guess you could say it "came out of nowhere" but that's pretty normal/NAI at this stage in the game.

What's normally suspicious about your style?

I think this kind of comment about finding it weird you're too trusted is >rand mafia. A lot of townies are confident in their townieness even if they are suspected often, but it's easy for mafia to assume they're suspicious.

One one level, I have no idea. Maybe I'm just drawn that way? Some of it is how I approach the game and suspicion--some of it is meta, but a lot of it is noticing patterns and when those patterns are off. Which many see as a suspicious way to suspect people, apparently.

And, in a bigger way, your noting my discomfort in being trusted is an excellent example of why--on this particular site. It's a mafia culture thing. I learned mafia in a very different setting than that of most of the players on here. There are some players (SVS, LC in this game) I've been playing with for about 15 years--I think Wilgy for at least a decade. I may have forgotten someone else who is in this game (other than our wonderful host). The game we played then, on sites like LP and The Piano, was stylistically different--we developed our own mafia slang, almost all games were ones in which pretty much everyone has a power, info dumping was essentially always frowned on--at least past a certain point, when we all seemed to realize it's not nearly as much fun that way, and agreed that there just wouldn't be any any more. Where puzzles and hidden messages were everywhere. This site, in large part, grew out of that world--and merged it with other mafia communities.

The mafia game style of those other communities mostly became the prominent culture, with some aspects of my original realm staying around. like this color.

And I still play with my same style that I always have, even though I know that most around me have a different style--and will suspect me for my style. I'm good with that.

Although, I do twirl a lot less than I used to.

As for your suspicion, unless I'm misunderstanding ">rand mafia" (as I don't actually know what that means). It is very par for the course in the games of most of my mafia playing for civvies to not want to be publicly trust. I mean, I guess in a game where there is only 1 bad faction (and no apparent neutral or indy roles), it makes more sense for civs to not worry so much when trusted, but...I'm still more accustomed to games where such a structure (2 teams, one good one bad) is the exception and not the rule,

While I'm waxing nostalgic, and in a Ted Lasso game, a shout out to the OG Diamond Dog, in whose honor this smiley was created It's literally based on the actual human. I miss that FEB.

Okay, what you and JJJ said about not wanting to be townread makes sense, and that comment might be NAI coming from you. You said JJJ's play was too much work to be fake, how much experience do you have with him? Afaik he tries hard as both alignments and can't be effort cleared alone.

@JaggedJimmyJay what are your top reasons for sussing Scotty?

It would be dishonest of me to call them my reasons, because I am kind of sheeping this one right now. But I think some others raised valid gripes or were otherwise convincing:

- Scotty calling Long Con's "unhinged" post towny was goofy.
- As S~V~S climbs the town ladder, I give her instinct more credence (that Scotty was off in resisting LC's suspicion of her)
- His read on LoRab didn't actually make sense (this thing) -- acknowledging a "difference in approach" with respect to her aversion to town reads and then basically ignoring that difference when suspecting her.
- Bereft has never openly town read Scotty, and I think he has a strong grip on the game right now.
- I decided my own town read was biased by my desire for players to be involved, and he was the first to take up that banner.

I might add one new gripe: his suspicion of you seemed kind of opportunistic. He even agreed with your reads

The LoRab thing is an interesting point. People like you, SVS, and LoRab herself were quick to tell me that it's normal to not want to be trusted for old school players, but Scotty knew this (I think) and still found it suspicious.

LoRab was an early suspect of Thunal's, and I have a feeling that might have been a more sustained "push" were it not for the "old schooler" defense of LoRab's aversion to town reads. Even if Thunal's reasons can be questioned, the conclusion is more important. I think this is decently dissociated.

From LoRab

Spoiler: show

What's normally suspicious about your style?

I think this kind of comment about finding it weird you're too trusted is >rand mafia. A lot of townies are confident in their townieness even if they are suspected often, but it's easy for mafia to assume they're suspicious.

One one level, I have no idea. Maybe I'm just drawn that way? Some of it is how I approach the game and suspicion--some of it is meta, but a lot of it is noticing patterns and when those patterns are off. Which many see as a suspicious way to suspect people, apparently.

And, in a bigger way, your noting my discomfort in being trusted is an excellent example of why--on this particular site. It's a mafia culture thing. I learned mafia in a very different setting than that of most of the players on here. There are some players (SVS, LC in this game) I've been playing with for about 15 years--I think Wilgy for at least a decade. I may have forgotten someone else who is in this game (other than our wonderful host). The game we played then, on sites like LP and The Piano, was stylistically different--we developed our own mafia slang, almost all games were ones in which pretty much everyone has a power, info dumping was essentially always frowned on--at least past a certain point, when we all seemed to realize it's not nearly as much fun that way, and agreed that there just wouldn't be any any more. Where puzzles and hidden messages were everywhere. This site, in large part, grew out of that world--and merged it with other mafia communities.

The mafia game style of those other communities mostly became the prominent culture, with some aspects of my original realm staying around. like this color.

And I still play with my same style that I always have, even though I know that most around me have a different style--and will suspect me for my style. I'm good with that.

Although, I do twirl a lot less than I used to.

As for your suspicion, unless I'm misunderstanding ">rand mafia" (as I don't actually know what that means). It is very par for the course in the games of most of my mafia playing for civvies to not want to be publicly trust. I mean, I guess in a game where there is only 1 bad faction (and no apparent neutral or indy roles), it makes more sense for civs to not worry so much when trusted, but...I'm still more accustomed to games where such a structure (2 teams, one good one bad) is the exception and not the rule,

While I'm waxing nostalgic, and in a Ted Lasso game, a shout out to the OG Diamond Dog, in whose honor this smiley was created It's literally based on the actual human. I miss that FEB.

If LoRab is mafia, this response to Thunal looks like the classically overwrought explanation that mafia provide to town accusers to justify whatever they've done.

~~~

I'd call these two unlikely mafia teammates.

[Cape90]

Spoiler: show

Good morning!

Wait- THATS RIGHT! I was just in a game with you in Don’t Starve, and would have absolutely gunned for you D2 if I didn’t get D1’d. I totally forgot about that game.

Ok ok I *can* read you.

You don't seem too confident here tho

That declaration is me feeling confident. Not sure what you mean

Putting 'can' between stars, I take it as not a solid statement.
Otoh if you can meta read Jay I am envious because I can't. Some hints will be appreciated!

Wait- THATS RIGHT! I was just in a game with you in Don’t Starve, and would have absolutely gunned for you D2 if I didn’t get D1’d. I totally forgot about that game.

Ok ok I *can* read you.

You don't seem too confident here tho

i think this is ~rand town perhaps

That's a pocketing attempt perhaps

i just found it a towny thing to highlight

so yes it is a pocket attempt

[VOTE: cape] aubergine

I don't clear you. I lean you town
I doubt you can't notice its not a lock

"I don't think Jay makes this post as mafia." is a pretty assertive statement.

It helps town imo. A simple logic tells me that mafia is not posting that.
I will not make a wall to explain it more

Why cape bad?

He said he wanted to pocket me

Cape wanting to pocket Michelle, reason enough for Michelle to be town

Spoiler: show

I don't clear you. I lean you town
I doubt you can't notice its not a lock

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

You misinterpret my post into a lock read.
If i was good with voting Sean I would
You're stretching things and i want to know why

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

You misinterpret my post into a lock read.
If i was good with voting Sean I would
You're stretching things and i want to know why

I expected you to carry on your line of questioning in some capacity to get a better read on me or something. I was not anticipating such a quick acceptance. You were right to ask me why I voted for someone with no posts, but now I am forced to ask myself if you were truly invested in that question.

Yes, I made my own judgement.
I didn't follow you

Keeping 'town leader' JJJ in check

Spoiler: show

You force me to self press on Sean

not wanting to vote sean



All of these are good reason to town read Michelle.

But honestly if she doesnt post more, doesnt help me with Thunal/Cape/JJJ and find the +1 she can go into the SVS/DM/Scotty/Michelle pile of 1 of

I would much rather kill JJJ today.

honestly the Sean thing is kinda towny.

Just wanted to also point out

Spoiler: show

Refer to the links in this post -- plenty of examples to work with. It's been both annoying and vindicating to be mafia so many times lately. I had one of my worst games ever in Philosophy 2 a couple years ago, but since then I have gone 5-0 as mafia (despite never being pleased to see the role card at first). Feels nice.

Wait- THATS RIGHT! I was just in a game with you in Don’t Starve, and would have absolutely gunned for you D2 if I didn’t get D1’d. I totally forgot about that game.

Ok ok I *can* read you.

You don't seem too confident here tho

Good morning!

You don't seem too confident here tho

That declaration is me feeling confident. Not sure what you mean

Putting 'can' between stars, I take it as not a solid statement.
Otoh if you can meta read Jay I am envious because I can't. Some hints will be appreciated!

You don't seem too confident here tho

i think this is ~rand town perhaps

That's a pocketing attempt perhaps

This felt a bit like going through the motions, especially the pocketing attempt.

I made my initial townread on Michelle just because JJJ made some comment saying Michelle was null (or something like that) when she had like 3 posts, so i chimed in with the closest thing i had to a read on Michelle

You see, I associate Michelle with noticing certain wording things when she is town, and when I saw

When was the last time you rolled mafia? Mind if I checked it out? I thought there was a game I was speccing where I pegged you as mafia by like day 3 but I don’t remember if that was confbias or you actually were mafia

Refer to the links in this post -- plenty of examples to work with. It's been both annoying and vindicating to be mafia so many times lately. I had one of my worst games ever in Philosophy 2 a couple years ago, but since then I have gone 5-0 as mafia (despite never being pleased to see the role card at first). Feels nice.

Wait- THATS RIGHT! I was just in a game with you in Don’t Starve, and would have absolutely gunned for you D2 if I didn’t get D1’d. I totally forgot about that game.

Ok ok I *can* read you.

You don't seem too confident here tho

this, I found it kinda towny just because of that, like she is a meticulous reader who will notice these things.

PS. I said the whole I am pocketing her thing as a sort of joke, I didn't feel one way or the other about her brief return the top of page 14 but i know she's returned since but im not up to there yet

@Michelle

Fyi my vote wasn't really serious
I didn't read much of the game so I wanted to see how you react. Your reaction was a little odd, why thank me for the vote?.
After, i fell asleeo

they said their vote on me was NOT SERIOUS which is what I figured, which is why my reaction to the vote was to jokingly thank her.

[Cape90]

You do you, Rondo. But I have seen you spam total b/s reads as mafia more than once, so forgive me if I don’t dismiss your content as “just Rondo things”.

yes yes. Rondo doing rondo things, easy dismissal.

How accurate have your pushes been in the past?

[Cape90]

Rondo all that “keeping me in check” is omgusing my suspicions after giving me the easiest town read I have ever received.

what do you mean by this? You clearly don't think Thunal is super towny unless i am misinterpreting what you are saying

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do Thunal33 and Scotty fit together as mafia teammates?

From Thunal

Spoiler: show

I like Scotty's entrance, and I think his comment about Cape's entrance is >rand town.

oops, SVS I was going to ask you what your takes on LC/Scotty were.

I'm liking Cape so far, I think his curiosity about my RVS vote question was good and it feels like he's saying whatever takes come to mind.

Long Con
Scotty
JJJ
Cape

everyone else

LoRab
SVS

[VOTE: Thunal] aubergine
Cu cu cachoo

Could you indicate which of Thunal's read(s) you found half-baked?

Their vote for SVS came out of nowhere for me:

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

@S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Onnnnnnnnnn-braaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd...... on-brand. On-brand. Towny. Wolfy. On-brand. Sassy. Classy. On-brand. Interesting. On-brand. Bon-rand?

@JaggedJimmyJay this is what I meant by "theatricality". I used to auto read this as bad~ weirdly enough, even in games where I was bad, and i had TMI re LC being town, I STILL read him as bad, which is why he's always an easy yeet for me when I'm bad. I kinda half believe it when I'm making the case.

I am on record as not believing in contributing to such lists, or rankings. I'm not a fan and I don't generally post them. Those here who have played with me a lot can attest.

Similarly, I hate when people trust me. Stop naming me, people! And, really....I'm kind of freaked out that I'm on this site and not yet suspected. What's up with that? I don't think that has ever happened. At all on here, and rarely in prior communities.

That used to freak me out, too. Naming civs, like WTF. Extreme target painting. I still don't love rainbow lists, and prefer baddie hunting to townie hunting.

I'm used to it now.

S~V~S is bad. She's humouring in there like nobody's business. Setting the scene, agreeable. If I were cruder and didn't know S~V~S, she's also sucking up to Jay, possibly pocketing.

Intriguing take- I feel like I have the unique benefit of having just wolfed with her and I haven’t seen anything specific about her that is throwing off my paranoia alarm. And I’m usually paranoid of her as of the last 3 games before I wolf’ed with her.

Now do me do me

OK, you're freaking me out here. I don't think you've EVER said anything like this to/about me. Not the last 3 games. EVERY. GAME. Every one. You think I'm bad.

What did you take away from wolfing with me that makes you say this?

Also gotta go get ready for work. Love my new job, hate the longer commute.

One last *?*, Bereft seems to be only addressing/alluding to Robyn and Jay, with the exception of his towny list, which was an answer to Jay, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be able to read him if I tried, is this a normal thing for him? I don't find it to be AI, it just stuck out to me skimming his ISO.

Where are SVS's own reads? A lot of her posts feel like commentary and not actually taking stances. LC's post used to be read as auto bad and Scotty's freaking her out, but she didn't make actual reads off those when I feel like it would be natural for her to do.

@S~V~S
[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

Their loRab push was also not strong.

Even though through a lens, I actually independently find I agree with their reads of both SVS and LoRab: where are SVS’ reads, and why is LoRab so freaked out about being townread?

Both of those pushes are low confidence, and LoRab's is even lower confidence than SVS. I woke up this morning, read the thread, and SVS's more recent posts caught my eye. I guess you could say it "came out of nowhere" but that's pretty normal/NAI at this stage in the game.

I feel like SVS would know if Scotty had secret tells on him or not and so lying about this wouldn't make much sense from Scotty.

This sort of meta read about Scotty suspecting SVS every game can go w/t either way or t/t. The only thing I think it's unlikely to be is w/w. If Scotty suspects SVS every game and both of them know it, mafia Scotty might go out of his way to suspect SVS again or he could change it to pocket SVS. SVS's post felt dramatic, with not much substance other than that it's freaking her out and I'd expect that post to go with a read or investigation on Scotty.

Lorab isn’t doing anything so far to make me townread her, and frankly is rather blendy in her entrance posts.

Though I don’t remember how LoRab operates. It’s been a while

blendy this blendy that

Tbf, I've seen town Scotty make that kind of read.

@JaggedJimmyJay what are your top reasons for sussing Scotty?

I personally don't think Scotty has been scummy and I have a few town pings from him, but enough people I feel good about are sussing him (particularly JJJ/Long Con) that I want to reeval that read.

[VOTE: Thunal] aubergine
Cu cu cachoo

Could you indicate which of Thunal's read(s) you found half-baked?

Their vote for SVS came out of nowhere for me:

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

@S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Onnnnnnnnnn-braaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd...... on-brand. On-brand. Towny. Wolfy. On-brand. Sassy. Classy. On-brand. Interesting. On-brand. Bon-rand?

@JaggedJimmyJay this is what I meant by "theatricality". I used to auto read this as bad~ weirdly enough, even in games where I was bad, and i had TMI re LC being town, I STILL read him as bad, which is why he's always an easy yeet for me when I'm bad. I kinda half believe it when I'm making the case.

I am on record as not believing in contributing to such lists, or rankings. I'm not a fan and I don't generally post them. Those here who have played with me a lot can attest.

Similarly, I hate when people trust me. Stop naming me, people! And, really....I'm kind of freaked out that I'm on this site and not yet suspected. What's up with that? I don't think that has ever happened. At all on here, and rarely in prior communities.

That used to freak me out, too. Naming civs, like WTF. Extreme target painting. I still don't love rainbow lists, and prefer baddie hunting to townie hunting.

I'm used to it now.

S~V~S is bad. She's humouring in there like nobody's business. Setting the scene, agreeable. If I were cruder and didn't know S~V~S, she's also sucking up to Jay, possibly pocketing.

Intriguing take- I feel like I have the unique benefit of having just wolfed with her and I haven’t seen anything specific about her that is throwing off my paranoia alarm. And I’m usually paranoid of her as of the last 3 games before I wolf’ed with her.

Now do me do me

OK, you're freaking me out here. I don't think you've EVER said anything like this to/about me. Not the last 3 games. EVERY. GAME. Every one. You think I'm bad.

What did you take away from wolfing with me that makes you say this?

Also gotta go get ready for work. Love my new job, hate the longer commute.

One last *?*, Bereft seems to be only addressing/alluding to Robyn and Jay, with the exception of his towny list, which was an answer to Jay, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be able to read him if I tried, is this a normal thing for him? I don't find it to be AI, it just stuck out to me skimming his ISO.

Where are SVS's own reads? A lot of her posts feel like commentary and not actually taking stances. LC's post used to be read as auto bad and Scotty's freaking her out, but she didn't make actual reads off those when I feel like it would be natural for her to do.

@S~V~S
[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

Their loRab push was also not strong.

Even though through a lens, I actually independently find I agree with their reads of both SVS and LoRab: where are SVS’ reads, and why is LoRab so freaked out about being townread?

This is something I actually think is towny for Scotty. Why would wolf Scotty weaken his push by saying he agreed with my reads? I feel like wolf Scotty would just go after me rather than giving credit to my reads especially if one was right. Even if they were both wrong I think he'd either push me harder or pocket me by finding common ground as mafia.

@JaggedJimmyJay what are your top reasons for sussing Scotty?

It would be dishonest of me to call them my reasons, because I am kind of sheeping this one right now. But I think some others raised valid gripes or were otherwise convincing:

- Scotty calling Long Con's "unhinged" post towny was goofy.
- As S~V~S climbs the town ladder, I give her instinct more credence (that Scotty was off in resisting LC's suspicion of her)
- His read on LoRab didn't actually make sense (this thing) -- acknowledging a "difference in approach" with respect to her aversion to town reads and then basically ignoring that difference when suspecting her.
- Bereft has never openly town read Scotty, and I think he has a strong grip on the game right now.
- I decided my own town read was biased by my desire for players to be involved, and he was the first to take up that banner.

I might add one new gripe: his suspicion of you seemed kind of opportunistic. He even agreed with your reads

The LoRab thing is an interesting point. People like you, SVS, and LoRab herself were quick to tell me that it's normal to not want to be trusted for old school players, but Scotty knew this (I think) and still found it suspicious.

This is something I actually think is towny for Scotty. Why would wolf Scotty weaken his push by saying he agreed with my reads? I feel like wolf Scotty would just go after me rather than giving credit to my reads especially if one was right. Even if they were both wrong I think he'd either push me harder or pocket me by finding common ground as mafia.

I read that the opposite way. It's not so much that he "waffled" on you or lost confidence about you, but rather he disproved his own read of you.

He called your reads of S~V~S and LoRab "half baked" based on frivolities (they "came out of nowhere" or were "not strong", whatever those really mean), and then he granted why they weren't half-baked... all while keeping his vote on you. In this instance, I don't care much about what "mafia Scotty" would or would not be likely to do from the standpoint of "how to handle Thunal", but rather I have to ask "was this ever a real read at all"?

It could be a real read, but your post made me think of something. When I find someone who has similar thoughts to me that I didn't say anything about yet, I'd tend towards townreading them rather than having gripes for how they came up with those reads. Normally I feel good about having the same opinions as someone else even if I thought the way they got there was sudden or weak.

I'm having trouble sorting Cape. He turned around really fast and in response to pressure twice which made me think he was trying to get the pressure off him and find a push because he was getting voted. But I liked some of his earlier thoughts and they were similar to mine.

I have a tinfoil Scotty/Cape are w/w. Cape has way more reasons to sus Scotty and finds a lot of his posts wrong, but his other susses like SVS, Abi, and me are much thinner. I also don't quite get why he opened Scotty's early ISO in the first place instead of someone else's since his last Scotty read was a townread.

@Thunal33, I had the same thought that Cape's quick flurry of anti-Scotty propaganda might be more about getting out of trouble than actually suspecting Scotty. However, he made some points I thought were legitimately compelling too.

I can see some of it - when I went back and reread Scotty his ISO seemed more one note than I remember and some of his reasons for suspecting people weren't very strong or actually scum AI.

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

I'm probably most comfortable with my vote here for the night.

Clearly there's a wolf in the Scotty, Bereft, Cape90, Jay realm, so which of these is it?

Scotty > Cape90 >>>>> Bereft

[VOTE: JJJ] aubergine

Full on OMGUS mode. I know I said Jay shouldn’t be D1’d but circumstances change and I feel like I’d be remiss if I missed this again

I don't like that Scotty went straight to voting Jay here. It's hard to see suspecting Jay because he sheeped people as a real thought.

I’ve turned around on Cape- even tho he doesn’t have a lot of posts, what posts he has made are actual reads. Obviously I would like him to expand on them, but he’s making definitive reads

Thunal on the surface looks fine with their reads, if not making reads that come off as half baked. And no one wants a half baked pie, except maybe the stray cat that hangs out on my patio after dark. He’ll eat anything.
Scumlean

this post is actually disgusting, but i have to read cape's posts in the interim, either way blahhhh, early shade on cape who is the easiest mischop on this side of the mississippi is just not a good look for a player of scotty's stature and understanding

This post seems opportunistic.

Of all the people having suspicions on me, yours feels hollow

[VOTE: robyn] aubergine

I don't think I agree with the Robyn sus, but it's a decent original point for Scotty to pick up. Especially because robyn only expressed sus on the shade on Cape when Scotty was already being widely suspected and not before.

I’ve turned around on Cape- even tho he doesn’t have a lot of posts, what posts he has made are actual reads. Obviously I would like him to expand on them, but he’s making definitive reads

Thunal on the surface looks fine with their reads, if not making reads that come off as half baked. And no one wants a half baked pie, except maybe the stray cat that hangs out on my patio after dark. He’ll eat anything.
Scumlean

this post is actually disgusting, but i have to read cape's posts in the interim, either way blahhhh, early shade on cape who is the easiest mischop on this side of the mississippi is just not a good look for a player of scotty's stature and understanding

This post seems opportunistic.

Of all the people having suspicions on me, yours feels hollow

[VOTE: robyn] aubergine

of course, i only voted u because bereft did, i never suspected u until after reading ur iso

the only real reason was to see u under pressure, i'd never vote for a bad post and i know that i looked at your iso after i was already slightly conf bias

i was gonna unvote u a few posts ago because your read on cape and suspicion of jjj (before you tr him, but after too, mainly before) felt organic

anyway ur still town

Does not compute.

You are basically admitting you are sheeping bereft and are not coming to conclusions on your own.

@Bereft i don’t know your relationship with Robyn, but do you feel like you would be confident in determining if Robyn is pocketing you? Do you feel that this game, or no?

With both this and your sus on JJJ, why is sheeping scummy?

I don't think sheeping someone is scum indicative. My vote on you is partially sheep and I'm fine with that.

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

I'm probably most comfortable with my vote here for the night.

did i miss something?

Yeah, I started getting sus on Scotty the page before and showed some of that.

Tbh, I'm not all that confident about Scotty being wolf and I keep going back and forth on him. If we kill Scotty and we're wrong, we just lost a top posting town voice in a game that really needs them.

I made an important point about Scotty in my blind interaction analysis. I’d love feedback on that in particular.

I've been burned pretty badly before by making the read of "they're not wolf because they're not teamed with anyone" so I take that with caution especially when there are inactive players. A lot of the unpairings you made I agree with, like Scotty/SVS or Scotty/LoRab not being teamed. Can you explain the Scotty/Bereft unpairing?

It does lower the odds of Scotty being scum somewhat but I don't take it as a strong point.

I think your being cleared way to easily just for posting a lot and being loud

We can resolve JJJ later. I almost never feel like he’s a good D1 vote unless every other player is, like, Aristotle


Tho tbh playing with a bunch of philosophers sounds like a fucking nightmare so nm

Y'all can but I have a severe allergic reaction to just deciding not to solve people and let a possible wolf take control without question for any extensive period of town

On the flip side, if Jay IS town, we lose a significant voice. Did you SEE the flip charts and excel spreadsheets he just posted? That’s gold.

You might think I’m being sarcastic, and I’m actually not. If he’s bad, I think it will become clearer as the days go on.

I have some of the same feelings about you. We have so many inactives this game that if we kill a high posting player and we're wrong we're just doing mafia's work for them and leaving the people that don't care alive.

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I'd rather go here. I have enough doubt on Scotty and I feel worse about Michelle than other low posters rn.

Even though flutterby says they have a spirit interpretation on Candle (and, no offense, I grasp those interpretations with a sprinkle of pepper), I am slanted to trust them on Candle. I mean, I previously had Candle as a city interpretation, but it provides me comfort about Flutterby rolling out so self-assured about it now.

There was a ton of commotion in the preceding 30 moments. By my calculation, there was a 2-vote 5-method bind 15 min before Dusk. Whirlwind gushing in to randomly vote Seanzie and the spar with Wilgy are crimson banners. (Or crimson cards, lol)

You can’t reveal me wolves weren’t busy leading off of Rainbow. That gazed like a rescue to me, and it functioned.

I'm not going to try reading this.

I feel like the obvious reason for the LC kill would be if SVS was town and Scotty was a wolf. What if Scotty cursed himself?

Robyn
Cape
JJJ
Bereft

Michelle
DrWilgy

DarlingMonroe
SVS
Rondo
ts account

LoRab
Scotty
Abigail

There's a ton going on in this spoiler, which is already telling to me (it's by far the most interactive review I have done so far). This level of attention is often not compatible. However, to be more thorough, let's follow the progression from Thunal's side. She started with a town read on Scotty relatively early. She sustained it for a while and then noticed him getting some heat from a few town reads of hers (including me). She explored that, offered a few protests, considered some stronger points, and ended up kind of siding with the anti-Scotty camp. She didn't end up voting for him at EOD. Do we believe she started by supporting her active teammate and then pivoted to distancing when the heat came, or do we think she followed a natural trajectory? I dangerously lean to the latter, because her progression was pretty damned similar to mine. The only hesitation I have is that she could have done that on purpose for a "mindmeld", but in the moment at least it felt reasonably authentic to me. Couple that with the sheer volume of interactivity here, and I lean toward dissociation.

From Scotty

Spoiler: show

Sooooo if I’m reading it right, Rupert’s money is responsible for the killing? So can they choose not to kill?

Probably. My interpretation is that they have to purchase kills (implying they can decline to do so), and that while Rupert is alive he is the only one that can kill. Then once he goes, any of the others can kill.

Important for any investigative roles out there to think about (i.e., tracker/watcher).

I didn't think about him being the only person who can kill, but that makes sense. That makes it much more important for Rupert to avoid sus than the other mafia and he might act differently because of that pressure. Kind of reminds me of John Doe in se7en where that role was important so SVS had pressure to go deep with it.

This was my thought but I was kinda sorta hoping to identify that trait later on in the day without influencing gameplay. But that’s fine

I didn't think about him being the only person who can kill, but that makes sense. That makes it much more important for Rupert to avoid sus than the other mafia and he might act differently because of that pressure. Kind of reminds me of John Doe in se7en where that role was important so SVS had pressure to go deep with it.

Perhaps so. I'm not entirely sure the role is that important since they retain their kill without it. It's just the early killer (if that interpretation is accurate). I just noted that town doesn't seem to have any night actions that would interact directly with a killing mafia member other than an even night role blocker (no tracker or watcher). We have protections, but they don't mean anything with respect to who is killing. It might not matter than much, and it appears that it means close to nothing on Night 1. I could be overlooking something.

From my understanding, the Rupert role is the designated power of attorney, and if he dies, mafia lose the ability to cop and elim save.

Sounds pretty important to me

I’ve turned around on Cape- even tho he doesn’t have a lot of posts, what posts he has made are actual reads. Obviously I would like him to expand on them, but he’s making definitive reads

Thunal on the surface looks fine with their reads, if not making reads that come off as half baked. And no one wants a half baked pie, except maybe the stray cat that hangs out on my patio after dark. He’ll eat anything.
Scumlean

[VOTE: Thunal] aubergine
Cu cu cachoo

I feel like SVS would know if Scotty had secret tells on him or not and so lying about this wouldn't make much sense from Scotty.

This sort of meta read about Scotty suspecting SVS every game can go w/t either way or t/t. The only thing I think it's unlikely to be is w/w. If Scotty suspects SVS every game and both of them know it, mafia Scotty might go out of his way to suspect SVS again or he could change it to pocket SVS. SVS's post felt dramatic, with not much substance other than that it's freaking her out and I'd expect that post to go with a read or investigation on Scotty.

Thanks for the random defend

You do know I’m voting you atm right?

@Thunal33 “investigate”? I’m watching him and reading his posts. How else am I supposed to investigate? Give him a DNA test?

I am NOT the father

This is something I actually think is towny for Scotty. Why would wolf Scotty weaken his push by saying he agreed with my reads? I feel like wolf Scotty would just go after me rather than giving credit to my reads especially if one was right. Even if they were both wrong I think he'd either push me harder or pocket me by finding common ground as mafia.

I read that the opposite way. It's not so much that he "waffled" on you or lost confidence about you, but rather he disproved his own read of you.

He called your reads of S~V~S and LoRab "half baked" based on frivolities (they "came out of nowhere" or were "not strong", whatever those really mean), and then he granted why they weren't half-baked... all while keeping his vote on you. In this instance, I don't care much about what "mafia Scotty" would or would not be likely to do from the standpoint of "how to handle Thunal", but rather I have to ask "was this ever a real read at all"?

Yep.

I think you’re looking ahead as if I only vote once in a game and dip. I found Thunal’s reads up to that point half baked, but they weren’t. I’m not even sure I suspect thunal anymore.

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

I'm probably most comfortable with my vote here for the night.

I see more of a progression on how you got to me, though now I’m still unsure if this is organic because you believe it or because you were trying to find a way to ease yourself into a safe vote

Leaning former…maybe

Town read:
Cape
Long con
Thunal (uno reversal. I dunno. Really liked the involvement I’ve seen in my read back today. Seems solvy)

Town lean:
JJJ (should not be voted today, only a doofus would do it)
Princess Abigail (I also don’t feel like mafia PA comes after the juggernaut JJJ immediately, tho I must profess I don’t know what mafia PA looks like. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen it)
bereft (ending response about Robyn)

Scumlean:
LoRab. (Only minorly Scumlean because I haven’t seen too much town equity atm)

Scumread:
Robyn

Others need to post more

I can’t make a good read on SVS at the moment- my paranoia is coming back inadvertently because she keeps wondering why I’m not paranoid. WELL THE PARANOIA IS IN TOWN AND FOUND AN AIR BNB

We’re still missing like 3 people that haven’t posted, which is…….bad. As I have said early on with JJJ, we need town to POST in a no-info dumping game.
@RondoDimBuckle @Seanzie @ts account

wait fuck scotty might be town but i can’t explain this

the reason is straight awful but it might be right

actually ignore me

Here's a big reason why I don't agree with the robyn sus btw. They're playing unfiltered imo, and have sequences like this that are a lot easier to actually think of than to fake all the steps as a wolf.

Eh. If we’re looking at filtered v unfiltered as an indicator of alignment, then sure. But I don’t think it’s that difficult to have a throughline as wolf

But of the posts you just quoted, Robyn, in summary, posted:
-vague town read for vague reasons
-secret reason
-nm, take it back because [reasons]

That series of posts literally said nothing. I still don’t know who Robyn suspects or why

Ok I gotta go and have an appointment before eod

Current working theory is DM and LC are mafia.
Can throw SVS in there too, though DM’s push on SVS would be almost clearing of SVS if DM flips bad. 4th can be…LoRab. I could be wrong on the latter, with 3 missingno’s. TBD

If I still go over, it’s been real. Cape needs to get off his high horse but I still feel like he is in a genuine tunnel and not just pushing me for shits. Please be easy on him.
Thunal has been quite waffly on me all game, which makes me want to just townread them. It would be easier to just jump on my wagon, but I feel like they’re really considering if my actions/reads have been forced or whatever. Making a town.
Princess Abigail I have already talked about- town.

JJJ can be resolved in a couple days. Again, if he doesn’t have a pelt by D3, and he’s still alive, get rid of him. Please.

Others:
Bereft and Robyn are either both town or one is fooling the other. I could be convinced that one is pocketing the other. I do not townread bereft yet. I’m a little biased but I feel like he’s been blunt to a point regarding me.

Wilgy has made some questionable impressions in the thread- I feel like he’s picking the wagons, making one minor point about them, and then making broad reads based on it. It doesn’t feel like actual solving yet. Prime candidate for info tonite tho.

Michelle’s entrance into the game is…fine. I guess. Not much presence. prob town.

This is almost the perfect inverse of the previous spoiler. Scotty started harshly with an early vote, and by the end Thunal was in his top town tier. If we assume Scotty is mafia, this looks like someone trying out a mischop and determining that his best interests would be best served canceling that and town reading her instead. I doubt these two coordinated this perfect yin-yang progression on one another.

~~~

I'd call them unlikely teammates.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If my analyses are sound, Thunal is a bad fit with everyone in the POE except for ts account. She probably shouldn't be in the POE.