[TOWN WIN] Cool Bug Mafia

[Michelle]

Also @JaggedJimmyJay here are my last 2 finished games one town one mafia at MU, not turbos/mashes/anons (because I played 2 anon games, 2 mashes and 3 turbos but they are not regular games)

Season 10, Game 6: The Good, the Bad, and the Scummy (The Mafia Championship)
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ionship%29

Mafia League: S2 M1G1
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ue-S2-M1G1

Thank you for these. On a quick scan, you made reads on SCCHAMP and Abgiail/Zenon (in each respective game) early on that fit the theme I had asked about earlier. That's a nice boost for you.

It's a playstyle that gives me a lot of heat, I should be more self conscious in Champs because if I wouldn't be PR I would die as D1 mischop for it.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Why would I even lie about that lol

[Wiml]

Ftr I do not plan to just go "ah yes, x did y thing as wolf so they're a wolf" or bad stuff like that.

I just want to get a feel for the playstyles and personalities of the people I don't know well as both alignments.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

The contrary view for Abigail is that she is not engaged or energized in this thread, and that's a stark difference to recent town games. I don't recall seeing her play as mafia and would need to snoop around to determine how meaningful that is.

This is indeed wolf indicative for me.

But must be compared with the general unease I feel about myself and my play right now

[Michelle]

Ftr I do not plan to just go "ah yes, x did y thing as wolf so they're a wolf" or bad stuff like that.

I just want to get a feel for the playstyles and personalities of the people I don't know well as both alignments.

I am curious to see how you handle meta tbh

[Lime Coke]

Spoiler: show

Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml


One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.

Why are you confident that there's specifically one wolf in those four names?

Given that you would know that you're town, I'm not seeing a compelling reason why a two vote wagon on another player during RVS has to contain a wolf within the three names with the confidence you're suggesting here.

Not that I don't think it's very plausible but I'm specifically interested about hearing about why you're so confident about this.

Sir if there is one thing that I am, it is scared.

I am never scared when I am town and when I am wolf I try to hide it. Why are you scared?

No reason it was just a joke.

[Wiml]

I’m considering a Michelle/Wiml “difference check”. That term is too strong for where I stand, but some softer version of that.

Expand on your thought process behind this, please?

I had two conflicting impressions: Michelle's reads were hard to buy, and you seemed a bit opportunistic in pushing it the way that you did. That'd suggest one mafia between the two of you without clarity about who. It was more a hunch that I was mulling over, and the term "difference check" generally implies more certitude -- so "softer version of that". I can see you both being town too.

Alright, seems fair. I tried to make it clear with the follow up post but it really wasn't a strong read on my end - I just had a lot to say since I'd been holding off while Michelle was still answering questions.

Wiml can you continue here?

Anything in particular you'd like me to expand on?

You said
"I just had a lot to say since I'd been holding off while Michelle was still answering questions."

So your read on me is not fully expressed. I assume you have more to it than in post P#190

I had a lot to say which is part of why my post calling you scummy back last night was so long despite me not actually having a strong read there.

My read on you isn't fully expressed but that's because I haven't dived into your more recent posts in any detail yet.

[Michelle]

Spoiler: show

Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml


One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.

Why are you confident that there's specifically one wolf in those four names?

Given that you would know that you're town, I'm not seeing a compelling reason why a two vote wagon on another player during RVS has to contain a wolf within the three names with the confidence you're suggesting here.

Not that I don't think it's very plausible but I'm specifically interested about hearing about why you're so confident about this.

Sir if there is one thing that I am, it is scared.

I am never scared when I am town and when I am wolf I try to hide it. Why are you scared?

No reason it was just a joke.

Ookay...

[Wiml]

The contrary view for Abigail is that she is not engaged or energized in this thread, and that's a stark difference to recent town games. I don't recall seeing her play as mafia and would need to snoop around to determine how meaningful that is.

This is indeed wolf indicative for me.

But must be compared with the general unease I feel about myself and my play right now

Open invite to chat with me at any point we're both alive in this game.

I'll try to be honest and (politely) let you know if I disagree with your game approach.

[Michelle]

I have some chores to do, I will visit the game later

[Wiml]

Spoiler: show

Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml


One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.

Why are you confident that there's specifically one wolf in those four names?

Given that you would know that you're town, I'm not seeing a compelling reason why a two vote wagon on another player during RVS has to contain a wolf within the three names with the confidence you're suggesting here.

Not that I don't think it's very plausible but I'm specifically interested about hearing about why you're so confident about this.

Sir if there is one thing that I am, it is scared.

I am never scared when I am town and when I am wolf I try to hide it. Why are you scared?

No reason it was just a joke.

Really? It didn't seem like one to me.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Jay at the moment when you voiced your town read on Abigail these were her posts.
What in these have AI content from your PoV?
@JaggedJimmyJay

It's like I tried to describe in the other post: her vote for you and view of your wagon (that either you or one of your voters is mafia) struck me as a real thing.

My take is the oposite. She came, said a non energetic hi, saw a wagon and hopped in without any other logic behind that it have to contain a wolf and choosing the actual wagon because why not.

1. Wolves need to have to show activity so they will start by supporting any wagon on a townie that it's there.
2. The addition at the so called wagon analysis is so forced, "not me", and psychologically implies manipulative intention.
3. I am sorry you don't observe the pocketing attitude she has while she agrees with your Michelle/ Wiml not aligned.

I am putting my vote down on her and I would do it for any other wagon she would put her vote on as third vote for no reason, but I am doing it with more conviction because I have TMI on my alignament.

[VOTE: Abigail] aubergine

Mmm I love getting scum read for a >rand read lol

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

My take is the oposite. She came, said a non energetic hi, saw a wagon and hopped in without any other logic behind that it have to contain a wolf and choosing the actual wagon because why not.

1. Wolves need to have to show activity so they will start by supporting any wagon on a townie that it's there.
2. The addition at the so called wagon analysis is so forced, "not me", and psychologically implies manipulative intention.
3. I am sorry you don't observe the pocketing attitude she has while she agrees with your Michelle/ Wiml not aligned.

I am putting my vote down on her and I would do it for any other wagon she would put her vote on as third vote for no reason, but I am doing it with more conviction because I have TMI on my alignament.

[VOTE: Abigail] aubergine

I can understand this perspective, and in an ironic sense the validity in "one of these people is mafia" can be applied to her as much as to you or Wiml. Perhaps there's self-awareness in that.

I'll remove my town read on her for now. I don't have much confidence in it.

Sus... but actually probably towny...

Meh let's lock that in for the fuck of it

Town Core.

JJJ
+5

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sus... but actually probably towny...

Are you able to describe the conflict that leads you here?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

My take is the oposite. She came, said a non energetic hi, saw a wagon and hopped in without any other logic behind that it have to contain a wolf and choosing the actual wagon because why not.

1. Wolves need to have to show activity so they will start by supporting any wagon on a townie that it's there.
2. The addition at the so called wagon analysis is so forced, "not me", and psychologically implies manipulative intention.
3. I am sorry you don't observe the pocketing attitude she has while she agrees with your Michelle/ Wiml not aligned.

I am putting my vote down on her and I would do it for any other wagon she would put her vote on as third vote for no reason, but I am doing it with more conviction because I have TMI on my alignament.

[VOTE: Abigail] aubergine

I can understand this perspective, and in an ironic sense the validity in "one of these people is mafia" can be applied to her as much as to you or Wiml. Perhaps there's self-awareness in that.

I'll remove my town read on her for now. I don't have much confidence in it.

You added a new point against her and I coloured it.
I do appreciate the bolded

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.

Talk to me about Abigail pls

Mostly vibes while reading her posts.

She has good vibes as wolf too.

I mean... do I?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.

Talk to me about Abigail pls

Mostly vibes while reading her posts.

She has good vibes as wolf too.

You're not wrong.

I'll see how the rest of the day plays out for her I'll tone the read down a bit.

What the actual...

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

This is not real lol

[Wiml]

I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.

I interpreted it the same way so I'm not sure what you're meaning?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Doesn't seem to care about his vote.

His question towards Epi voting Quinn didn't feel like something he was trying to use to solve Epi and didn't look like he cared about the response.

Understood, thanks. I'll stow my thoughts until falcon responds to this.

He'll probably post.






Like this.

Thanks for keeping your reads open Brad, this looks good for you

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.

I interpreted it the same way so I'm not sure what you're meaning?

If I am correct in that interpretation, Lime Coke can validly call it a "joke", but it still demands clarity about what in that post inspired unease about you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is not real lol

Reads are fluid, especially this early. Keep doing your thing, Abigail.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml


One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.

Why are you confident that there's specifically one wolf in those four names?

Given that you would know that you're town, I'm not seeing a compelling reason why a two vote wagon on another player during RVS has to contain a wolf within the three names with the confidence you're suggesting here.

Not that I don't think it's very plausible but I'm specifically interested about hearing about why you're so confident about this.

Simple meth

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

It's a read I've used with consistency for months with insanely high accuracy.

The read is the first wagon with 3 votes always had 1 wolf in 4 names

I admittedly forced it here but still.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Simple meth

You'd suggested your read about the Michelle wagon was ">rand" earlier. If you can explain your idea of that "math", it'd probably help to sort you. I don't mean computing literal probabilities, that's impossible, but if you can explain why that read is ">rand" correct, then your rationale is made clear.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's a read I've used with consistency for months with insanely high accuracy.

The read is the first wagon with 3 votes always had 1 wolf in 4 names

I admittedly forced it here but still.

Or alternatively, if you can remember another time you made this read, that'd help. I said earlier that I thought I had seen it before from you, but I cannot recall specifically.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

The contrary view for Abigail is that she is not engaged or energized in this thread, and that's a stark difference to recent town games. I don't recall seeing her play as mafia and would need to snoop around to determine how meaningful that is.

This is indeed wolf indicative for me.

But must be compared with the general unease I feel about myself and my play right now

Open invite to chat with me at any point we're both alive in this game.

I'll try to be honest and (politely) let you know if I disagree with your game approach.

Open permission to let me know when you think you have advice about anything. Pls... just tell me.

[Wiml]

I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.

I interpreted it the same way so I'm not sure what you're meaning?

If I am correct in that interpretation, Lime Coke can validly call it a "joke", but it still demands clarity about what in that post inspired unease about you.

Brad's wolfy because he identified a completely valid post to scumread me based on (even if I'd argue I'd never made that post as mafia, that's total WIFOM) but is very hesitant to push on it. This was just a mild ping at the time but I wanted to move off of Michelle and he seemed like a reasonable vote for that reason.

And then his "it's just a joke" post I reacted to made the above significantly more apparent by totally backing down on it imo (which is where our interpretations seem to differ) and was the point where I started actively considering him to be wolfy.

Wolf-Brad knows I have a reasonably good read on him and have a high chance of burying him later on unless he pockets me. I also used to OMGUS a bit in the past. So wolf-Brad almost never wants to genuinely try to push on me.

So I find his pointing out a genuinely reasonable reason to scumread me and backing off as "just a joke" to be wolfy from him specifically.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Sus... but actually probably towny...

Are you able to describe the conflict that leads you here?

I think it's susssss that that is all it took to completely 180 your thought process on me because like Michelle basically just said the exact opposite thing as you and you just went oh yes right I remove my read.

And since I think Michelle has been kinda just scummy overall.

Butttt I think that wolf JJJ just continues to pocket me and power wolf because you know it will work on me and I just kinda feel your more likely to be just like hard power wolfy and convicted based on my admittedly very limited experience

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

This is not real lol

Reads are fluid, especially this early. Keep doing your thing, Abigail.

Okay but like what I mean by this is not real is that 2 people have said that I'm town

Michelle has said why

They've answered

Michelle has said no

And they've been like oh ha yes you are right in fact no

And nobody thinks this is fishy or weird.

It brings to mind that famous W Bush quote

Fool me once shame on you fool me twice uh never fool me again

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Brad's wolfy because he identified a completely valid post to scumread me based on (even if I'd argue I'd never made that post as mafia, that's total WIFOM) but is very hesitant to push on it. This was just a mild ping at the time but I wanted to move off of Michelle and he seemed like a reasonable vote for that reason.

And then his "it's just a joke" post I reacted to made the above significantly more apparent by totally backing down on it imo (which is where our interpretations seem to differ) and was the point where I started actively considering him to be wolfy.

Wolf-Brad knows I have a reasonably good read on him and have a high chance of burying him later on unless he pockets me. I also used to OMGUS a bit in the past. So wolf-Brad almost never wants to genuinely try to push on me.

So I find his pointing out a genuinely reasonable reason to scumread me and backing off as "just a joke" to be wolfy from him specifically.

Understood. I can't speak much regarding the history you cite between you two, but I think it's fine for you to have this suspicion. Lime Coke's in my POE at the moment too.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Okay but like what I mean by this is not real is that 2 people have said that I'm town

Michelle has said why

They've answered

Michelle has said no

And they've been like oh ha yes you are right in fact no

And nobody thinks this is fishy or weird.

It brings to mind that famous W Bush quote

Fool me once shame on you fool me twice uh never fool me again

Truth be told, my biggest takeaway from that sequence wasn't "Abigail is suspicious", but instead it was "Michelle is making sound points and seems authentic". This is kind of the nature of teamwork, as I see it.

I do think it's plausible that LC followed the wave, since his reduced town read followed directly from mine. So that could be called fishy.

[Lime Coke]

[VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, YOUNG MAN!?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Michelle do you still read falcon as town?

[Lime Coke]

I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.

Yes I like to use the "I'm scared" thing as a joke in moments and in the tone of me trying to act tough or like I'm about to do something huge.

The shift tends to get people since they don't expect it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.

Yes I like to use the "I'm scared" thing as a joke in moments and in the tone of me trying to act tough or like I'm about to do something huge.

The shift tends to get people since they don't expect it.

I don't entirely follow what you mean. "I'm scared" is trying to act tough?

[Lime Coke]

I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.

Yes I like to use the "I'm scared" thing as a joke in moments and in the tone of me trying to act tough or like I'm about to do something huge.

The shift tends to get people since they don't expect it.

I don't entirely follow what you mean. "I'm scared" is trying to act tough?

No.

Imagine someone steps up to you, really pissed off, and looking like they're about to explode at you. They have the tone and language like they're about to fight you.

Then suddenly the words "I'm scared" get used in the midst of it.

Basically that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I do have some gripes with Lime Coke.

Spoiler: show

JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.

The last time I saw this post (the gist being "JJJ seems really town now, not like last game when he was mafia") it came from mafia WildZoo in one of the SDN games I linked for Wiml.

Spoiler: show

Whom I THINK can be a wolf is...

....

....

THIS GUY!!!

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

falcon was my top town read as of this moment, and to drop this vote without engaging me (or anyone else town reading falcon) in some capacity is a bit off.

Spoiler: show

JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.

Talk to me about Abigail pls

Mostly vibes while reading her posts.

Kinda farty

Spoiler: show

JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.

Talk to me about Abigail pls

Mostly vibes while reading her posts.

She has good vibes as wolf too.

You're not wrong.

I'll see how the rest of the day plays out for her I'll tone the read down a bit.

Not sure LC cares about his Abigail read. This "tone it down" move came right after I said the same thing, but with barely any qualification or exploration of the topic.

[VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine

[Lime Coke]

Well that's unfortunate.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well that's unfortunate.

What do you think of the reasons I gave for town reading falcon?

[Wiml]

It's a read I've used with consistency for months with insanely high accuracy.

The read is the first wagon with 3 votes always had 1 wolf in 4 names

I admittedly forced it here but still.

Or alternatively, if you can remember another time you made this read, that'd help. I said earlier that I thought I had seen it before from you, but I cannot recall specifically.

I can vouch for this tell being a thing that town-Abi would absolutely believe in, even if I also can't think of a specific time she's made this read otoh.

[Lime Coke]

Well that's unfortunate.

What do you think of the reasons I gave for town reading falcon?

Farty.

[Lime Coke]

Jk let me look at it again.

[Wiml]

Well that's unfortunate.

If you're town then I have faith we'll get there eventually on you dw.

[Wiml]

The contrary view for Abigail is that she is not engaged or energized in this thread, and that's a stark difference to recent town games. I don't recall seeing her play as mafia and would need to snoop around to determine how meaningful that is.

This is indeed wolf indicative for me.

But must be compared with the general unease I feel about myself and my play right now

Open invite to chat with me at any point we're both alive in this game.

I'll try to be honest and (politely) let you know if I disagree with your game approach.

Open permission to let me know when you think you have advice about anything. Pls... just tell me.

Got it, I'll try to do this!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well that's unfortunate.

What do you think of the reasons I gave for town reading falcon?

Farty.

I laughed.

Why do you read me as town if my town read on your suspect is farty?

[Wiml]

JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.

Please expand on all of these that you haven't already expanded on.

[Wiml]

I do have some gripes with Lime Coke.

Spoiler: show

JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.

The last time I saw this post (the gist being "JJJ seems really town now, not like last game when he was mafia") it came from mafia WildZoo in one of the SDN games I linked for Wiml.

Spoiler: show

Whom I THINK can be a wolf is...

....

....

THIS GUY!!!

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

falcon was my top town read as of this moment, and to drop this vote without engaging me (or anyone else town reading falcon) in some capacity is a bit off.

Spoiler: show

JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.

Talk to me about Abigail pls

Mostly vibes while reading her posts.

Kinda farty

Spoiler: show

JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.

Talk to me about Abigail pls

Mostly vibes while reading her posts.

She has good vibes as wolf too.

You're not wrong.

I'll see how the rest of the day plays out for her I'll tone the read down a bit.

Not sure LC cares about his Abigail read. This "tone it down" move came right after I said the same thing, but with barely any qualification or exploration of the topic.

[VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine

I broadly agree with this post as well.