Se7en Mafia [GAME OVER- MAFIA WIN]

[Roxy]

how's that catch up coming Kate?

[Kate]

Doom kill is 100% a kill I'd make as wolf.

If I was a solo mafia and had one single kill to make n1 I kill Kate.

Finally we agree lol

@Zenon Sorry if I'm lame. If you don't like it, don't do it. But the original purpose was to make catch ups easier; you knew you could skip the green posts becasue they weren't game relevant. Those of us who only might have limited time to play might find it helpful. xox, and I'm Ok with being lame.

Just starting my reread but this popped out when I was crossing to the top...

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Last person who made a bet with me was a wolf and they did not honor it

That is true, I did not honor it.

I'm still salty.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Who wants to make a bet with me about anything the loser has to roleplay as the winner in the next game they play any takers any any any

Okay. I bet that Dennis is mafia.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

What's my weakness

You play too much mafia.

Factually accurate

[Kate]

I think I am gonna largely just be kind to myself and chalk it up to a bad phase. If yall wanna push me off of it that's your prerog. I still stand by all my solving.

You standby your analysis or you standby your claim porscha was acting wolfy?

[Kate]

I think I am gonna largely just be kind to myself and chalk it up to a bad phase. If yall wanna push me off of it that's your prerog. I still stand by all my solving.

seriously dont beat yourself up, ive done it to myself before and its just not worth it. Still sorry dr.w

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

@falcon45ca where are you today with your thoughts?

@Matahari what be your reads after the last elim?

@pyxxy what did you make of the NK on Doom? Does it affect your reads today?

@Dubz where are you at in your reads today?

@Dennis do you have a rainbow or reads list yet?

I would say that I don’t want to say because it would sound like omgus. But maybe I should discuss it so I can get some feedback. I am thinking that Zenon did some very strange things yesterday. She made such a fuss in the thread about Portia and Tutuu being town and then at the last minute let Mac persuade her to vote Portia. She also made a fuss about my vote for Doom. Then Portia dies, followed by Doom. Idk, but it feels like a sham. Like Zenon pre-cleared herself from any wrongdoing, and who would suspect her after she was so vocal about trusting them? It just feels really ick to me.
And speaking of Portia, her role had a 1x day kill, I’m surprised she didn’t use it before she was miselimmed. I sure would have, she must be a lot nicer than I am.
I still trust most of the people I listed yesterday, but I’m wondering why people don’t trust Dennis. I’ve never played in one of his wolf games, so I don’t have anything to compare. But I haven’t seen anything that catches my eye yet, where he is concerned.

Accurate representation of what I would do as a wolf mostly


Except I'd never kill Porscha over tutuu I would of just kept tunneling all the way to the core of the earth.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Im talking to a girl i like her a lot if things go well ill be so happy if they dont ill be sad whyyy do u all have partners some of you EVEN MORE THAN ONE ur making it look so easy ;-; ;-; ;-;

Tbf, I think Mac, Epi and I are a lot older and better looking than you.

*dies*

Psst I disagree you are WAAAAAAY hottest

Like all of them combined abs averaged out are like still below youuuuuu and your beauty


UwU

[Kate]

The most annoying shit ever for me is when I put faith in myself I'm wrong and when I doubt myself I'm right and it literally makes playing mafia so frustrating.

Anyways I was right on Doom that's cool. Why the fuck did they kill Doom.

Fear kill.

I don't agree. My thinking is a redirection is in play.

I was thinking it was probably someone who could read her well who thought she was townie. Also the person maybe thought she could read them as well?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Doom kill is 100% a kill I'd make as wolf.

If I was a solo mafia and had one single kill to make n1 I kill Kate.

Finally we agree lol

@Zenon Sorry if I'm lame. If you don't like it, don't do it. But the original purpose was to make catch ups easier; you knew you could skip the green posts becasue they weren't game relevant. Those of us who only might have limited time to play might find it helpful. xox, and I'm Ok with being lame.

Just starting my reread but this popped out when I was crossing to the top...

I apologize it was meant as a joke though I do legit think nothing in mafia is really off topic.

It was taken seriously I didn't mean it

[tutuu]

Who wants to make a bet with me about anything the loser has to roleplay as the winner in the next game they play any takers any any any

Okay. I bet that Dennis is mafia.

Ill take it you include the 3ps in that, and we're talking bout his current alignment

Cool, i bet that his current alignment is town

I always honor my bets zenon-chan ...

[Kate]

I think it’s suuuuper funny Epi roleplayed as the deadly sins AND NO ONE NOTICED

THERE ARE TEN BERZILLION POSTS!

[tutuu]

Im talking to a girl i like her a lot if things go well ill be so happy if they dont ill be sad whyyy do u all have partners some of you EVEN MORE THAN ONE ur making it look so easy ;-; ;-; ;-;

Tbf, I think Mac, Epi and I are a lot older and better looking than you.

*dies*

Psst I disagree you are WAAAAAAY hottest

Like all of them combined abs averaged out are like still below youuuuuu and your beauty


UwU

AAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Kate]

Add Kate

that depends

On what?

[Kate]

Add Kate

that depends

On?

not allowed to elaborate but I'll ping you at some point and say whether or not I'm happy to towncore her k?

The plot thickens. I wouldn't waste too much time on me if you are in fact town.

[Kate]

@Epignosis your behaviour this day has not been evil and I invite you to join me in voting out RondoDimBuckle

Has there been a case on him made that I missed? He's been mellow and nice, what could that mean? Lol.

We are all in the fing twilight zone.

[Kate]

Am I lust now?

Now?

Tee hee

[Kate]

@Epignosis your behaviour this day has not been evil and I invite you to join me in voting out RondoDimBuckle

Gotta piss first.

*Kate break.

[Kate]

why are people (read: Tutuu) talking about roleplaying your actual fucking role? like that's even legal itg

I think this is a bad idea. There are too many baddies or "potential" baddies who would fake their role then know exactly who to kill. The only thing we have over them right now is that they don't know who is who. I don't want to give that up.

[Kate]

Enjoy being alive day 5 with all the level 1 wolfy slots in every game then.

I actually quite enjoy it when I win and the wolfy towns aren't dead so

this has never happened has it zenon

Actually quite often recently

And if I wasn't a little dumb bitch town Porscha would still be here

alright give me the list of names of people I'm not allowed to chop cuz you think they're possible miselims

Zenon
Kate
Macdougall
DrWilgy
falcon45ca
jackofhearts2005
Michelle
Dubz
Thunal33
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME


This

Why on wilgy?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Who wants to make a bet with me about anything the loser has to roleplay as the winner in the next game they play any takers any any any

Okay. I bet that Dennis is mafia.

Ill take it you include the 3ps in that, and we're talking bout his current alignment

Cool, i bet that his current alignment is town

I always honor my bets zenon-chan ...

Cosplaying me is easy pz

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I think it’s suuuuper funny Epi roleplayed as the deadly sins AND NO ONE NOTICED

THERE ARE TEN BERZILLION POSTS!

Catch up faster

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Im talking to a girl i like her a lot if things go well ill be so happy if they dont ill be sad whyyy do u all have partners some of you EVEN MORE THAN ONE ur making it look so easy ;-; ;-; ;-;

Tbf, I think Mac, Epi and I are a lot older and better looking than you.

*dies*

Psst I disagree you are WAAAAAAY hottest

Like all of them combined abs averaged out are like still below youuuuuu and your beauty


UwU

AAAAAAAAAAAAA

Yes?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Am I lust now?

Now?

Tee hee

Wait... what's this mean lol

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I actually quite enjoy it when I win and the wolfy towns aren't dead so

this has never happened has it zenon

Actually quite often recently

And if I wasn't a little dumb bitch town Porscha would still be here

alright give me the list of names of people I'm not allowed to chop cuz you think they're possible miselims

Zenon
Kate
Macdougall
DrWilgy
falcon45ca
jackofhearts2005
Michelle
Dubz
Thunal33
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME


This

Why on wilgy?

Ribbity vibbity vibes bb

[Kate]

well congratulations Michelle at least I know you're town now

This is false meta and you know it.
I am not pocketed.

[VOTE: Macdougall] aubergine

Also I will vote tutuu whenever the wagon rises. These are my main scum read in this game

you hit me with a lot of incorrect stuff there and if you want me to bother explaining how I'm gonna need you to demonstrate it's worth my energy doing so

Demonstration for what? I saw your intention pretty clear until now.
Save your energy, sure.

I will give you a free glimpse

you told me I ignored the matahari vote and then quoted me talking about the matahari vote

definition of confbiased

Where is your analysis about Matahari?
There's none.
Zero interest in solving the slot.

1. I think Michelle is towny.

2. I don't see anything that odd from Matahari, I know she's busy irl for the beginning of this game. @Roxy @S~V~S thoughts here?

[pyxxy]

Epi civ, Thunal sin, Mac virtue, tutuu massive sinner, DOOM virtue, zenon leaning sin, Kate the one scum, Dubz leaning sin, Scotty leaning host

ttyl

Kate mafia? How come? @pyxxy

wanted to see her react to me saying it

still very cautious doesn't really line up with the Kate that solved Sumemr Sh*t by N2 and died for it

I think she's a sin

Do you still think this? She had clearly delineated reasons for that amazing call out she did in Summer Shit, there was a bit of a baddie panic in real time that she was in the thread for that gave her that. There isn't anything even remotely like that here; while I guess she could be a sin, her game as Lost Wolf in Scooby Doo I think it was, was impressive, and I think (could be wrong) that the Purples are perhaps similar to lost wolves, comparing her to a game where there was (at least on Day One, not sure if that is still the case, would Scotty even tell us if a bad team forms?) is pretty unfair, don't you think?

I'm just catching up to you, so if you went into more detail after this point, sorry, I'm not there yet.

I also protected Kate last night and kind of have a feeling she was the mafia NK and the Doom kill was something else. That doesn't clear her from being a sin, but if I'm right, it is a good look for her.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

this has never happened has it zenon

Actually quite often recently

And if I wasn't a little dumb bitch town Porscha would still be here

alright give me the list of names of people I'm not allowed to chop cuz you think they're possible miselims

This

Why on wilgy?

Ribbity vibbity vibes bb

Updating this though

Zenon
Kate
Tutuu
falcon45ca
Michelle
Dubz
Thunal33
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Mac probs but less confident


Wilgz and Jack are gone Tutuu is on it

[pyxxy]

@falcon45ca where are you today with your thoughts?

@Matahari what be your reads after the last elim?

@pyxxy what did you make of the NK on Doom? Does it affect your reads today?

@Dubz where are you at in your reads today?

@Dennis do you have a rainbow or reads list yet?

I think whoever killed doom did it for non-setup-related reasons

either they wanted her to take a break (but missed that she dropped the class) or they were actually annoyed by the off-topic posting

I put myself in the former category except I saw the drop message + in.....Cosmere? there was a game with me and doom and my biggest takeaway is that sometimes she just shares shit and if it makes me squint + confused then she's town. sample size like 2-3 games though

[Kate]

I dunno what I'm apparently missing with tutuu here but I'm seeing normal tutuu lol.

I went back and looked at her day one in Crossover, and it was so so different than this. This looks like OT Discord Tutuu, not like townie baddie hunting Tutuu.

I got some yucky feels on wilgy and I'm uber surprised no one else is talking about this.

I'm caught up reading and I feel no better about tutuu.

In summary:
wilgy
Tutuu

Explain yucky feelings? I felt the opposite. You prolly recall, I had a chance to play bad Wilgy and civvie Wilgy pretty much simultaneously in your Meta Game (he was bad) and Hot Dog Fingers. After he killed me in Meta, and I found he was bad, I was able to contrast him clearly in HDF since I had been reading him the opposite of reality. He was only posting in the word 'yes' or maybe 'no' in HDF, but when I did something he didn't like, he was super clear about it. Crystal. His reply (spoilered below) to Pyxxy about his vote 'feels' the exact same way to me.

So tell me what you see that I don't.

Spoiler: show

Does Pyxxy legitimately think that voting me would suddenly turn a post that should be NAI to a post that should be NAI? How does your voting me ACTUALLY make a difference here?

I wasn't giving you anything AI in the first place.

@RondoDimBuckle , since you were asking about pee pee this AM, this post makes me feel OK about Wilgy, this is the kind of snappy remark he made to me when I voted for him in HDF for a weak reason. He was doing his Wilgy thing, then he snapped to attention and rebuked me for saying something dopey. Just like this post ^^. As opposed to Meta, where he had me pocketed so hard I'm still picking lint from my hair.

I went back and skimmed Tutuu in Wwerecreatures, because I thought she was similar there, but, nah, I was wrong. She was hard civving there from the get go. Is changing up her game a thing she does? Plus earlier today she was doing that thing that looked like flinging the shit to see what sticks. But we have more than half the day to go, I'd like to hear more from her before I pile on.

I wish i had any reason to take a math or chemistry class.



Go take it if you want, go to your local community college and take courses. I started taking some lit and history classes just for fun. You don't need a reason.

I have to go do something for about 45 mins (loving this retirement ) and I'll pull the post but it was under the Simpson on the bus and the falcon is town sign and he spoke about 'TMI.'

I think that was a derp. If he's scum without TMI, I don't think he would believe something is a TMI pocket attempt.

But what if he's a scum WITH TMI?

Do you think there was BTS on Day One? It would be weird for the Sins to have BTS if they can change alignments. If it's true that there is no BTS, there is no TMI on day one. The exception would be it's possible that Doe knows who the baddies could be. In BSG I had a role that looks to be a lot like Doe; I was the baddie kingpin, but I had to search for my teammates. I didn't who they were, though. IIRC Scotty played that game, too, so I'm guessing there may be some similar elements.

My main point in making that post to you, though, was to explain why I didn't vote for Wilgy in Hot Dog Fingers when you were sure he was bad, I don't think we ever discussed post game WHY i didn't follow you there. What I saw there that gave me pause, I saw something similar here. I could be a zillion percent wrong, this is Wilgy, but that two game bad/good perspective i had in Meta/HDF gave me some insight into how *I* read him.

On to finish catching up. I see from a quick skim that no one quit mafia over misyeeting Porscha as promised. Unsurprised at hyperbole used to persuade people.

1 st point. This game is wacky. I think it's entirely possible that the game was set up with information but without communication. The wolves strength against the town is typically knowledge to contend against the towns numbers. If the baddies have no knowledge, they have no advantage.

2. That game is the last thing in the world I want to relive. No one seems to be agreeing with me on wilgy so I guess I'll iso him and decide if I should let it go or not.

[Kate]

@Kate what was the breaking point that made you change your vote from Tutuu to Porscha?
Just curious.

It was when she (held me at gunpoint and) specifically spoke about a time I felt like shit about myself and she made me feel a whole lot better. I don't *think* she would have gone there if she was bullshitting me.

[Roxy]

@falcon45ca where are you today with your thoughts?

@Matahari what be your reads after the last elim?

@pyxxy what did you make of the NK on Doom? Does it affect your reads today?

@Dubz where are you at in your reads today?

@Dennis do you have a rainbow or reads list yet?

I think whoever killed doom did it for non-setup-related reasons

either they wanted her to take a break (but missed that she dropped the class) or they were actually annoyed by the off-topic posting

I put myself in the former category except I saw the drop message + in.....Cosmere? there was a game with me and doom and my biggest takeaway is that sometimes she just shares shit and if it makes me squint + confused then she's town. sample size like 2-3 games though

I agree for non set up reasons, I think maybe just a name out of a hat so to speak. I have a silly theory but would like to keep it quiet for right now.

Also thanks for the bit of insight into Doom always appreciated and for your response.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

It's not that you were wrong it's that you were wrong about porscha specifically while zenon and I told you that you were wrong lol

Maybe. Zenon did end up voting for Porscha as well so....

Yeah we all make mistakes sometimes

Huh. You town read me than?

Yeah I still tr you. I expect you to talk yourself out of and/or be talked out of an accurate read in a way I dont usually see from mac, at least on this sort of read.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

It's not that you were wrong it's that you were wrong about porscha specifically while zenon and I told you that you were wrong lol

I bare much blame myself Nook

Idc you're still town

Wanna mason?

Heck yeah let's kill mac and/or Sean

[Roxy]

Spoiler: show

Actually quite often recently

And if I wasn't a little dumb bitch town Porscha would still be here

alright give me the list of names of people I'm not allowed to chop cuz you think they're possible miselims

This

Why on wilgy?

Ribbity vibbity vibes bb

Updating this though

Zenon
Kate
Tutuu
falcon45ca
Michelle
Dubz
Thunal33
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Mac probs but less confident


Wilgz and Jack are gone Tutuu is on it

[Roxy]

@Kate what was the breaking point that made you change your vote from Tutuu to Porscha?
Just curious.

It was when she (held me at gunpoint and) specifically spoke about a time I felt like shit about myself and she made me feel a whole lot better. I don't *think* she would have gone there if she was bullshitting me.

thanks friend I appreciate the insight into Tutuu.

[Kate]

Epi civ, Thunal sin, Mac virtue, tutuu massive sinner, DOOM virtue, zenon leaning sin, Kate the one scum, Dubz leaning sin, Scotty leaning host

ttyl

Kate mafia? How come? @pyxxy

wanted to see her react to me saying it

still very cautious doesn't really line up with the Kate that solved Sumemr Sh*t by N2 and died for it

I think she's a sin

Do you still think this? She had clearly delineated reasons for that amazing call out she did in Summer Shit, there was a bit of a baddie panic in real time that she was in the thread for that gave her that. There isn't anything even remotely like that here; while I guess she could be a sin, her game as Lost Wolf in Scooby Doo I think it was, was impressive, and I think (could be wrong) that the Purples are perhaps similar to lost wolves, comparing her to a game where there was (at least on Day One, not sure if that is still the case, would Scotty even tell us if a bad team forms?) is pretty unfair, don't you think?

I'm just catching up to you, so if you went into more detail after this point, sorry, I'm not there yet.

I appreciate this read, it's very fair and unbiased. I have thought to myself about 1000x that I'll be punished for quite some time for having a few good games. I'll be lynched if I'm "off" and nk'd if I'm active. I'm trusting my gut a lot less her than I have been lately because the stuff I used to sus people isn't happening her. The last game for instance, the sdn'rs defended hard and that's where that solve came from. That just isn't gonna happen here.

I'm also petrified bc the person I want to vote the most is wilgy and I was massively wrong on him before.

[Kate]

[VOTE: rondo] aubergine oh so NOW rondos a wolf ok

Why? Or is that a question?

[Kate]

Epi civ, Thunal sin, Mac virtue, tutuu massive sinner, DOOM virtue, zenon leaning sin, Kate the one scum, Dubz leaning sin, Scotty leaning host

ttyl

Kate mafia? How come? @pyxxy

wanted to see her react to me saying it

still very cautious doesn't really line up with the Kate that solved Sumemr Sh*t by N2 and died for it

I think she's a sin

Do you still think this? She had clearly delineated reasons for that amazing call out she did in Summer Shit, there was a bit of a baddie panic in real time that she was in the thread for that gave her that. There isn't anything even remotely like that here; while I guess she could be a sin, her game as Lost Wolf in Scooby Doo I think it was, was impressive, and I think (could be wrong) that the Purples are perhaps similar to lost wolves, comparing her to a game where there was (at least on Day One, not sure if that is still the case, would Scotty even tell us if a bad team forms?) is pretty unfair, don't you think?

I'm just catching up to you, so if you went into more detail after this point, sorry, I'm not there yet.

I also protected Kate last night and kind of have a feeling she was the mafia NK and the Doom kill was something else. That doesn't clear her from being a sin, but if I'm right, it is a good look for her.

Well, thank you kind sir

[Kate]

Okay I take back my svs townread

I remember thinking she's probably town but it's literally only because she made massive posts which is a pretty bad reason to townread someone

but what were your takes from her "massive" posts? Do you agree? Do you disagree? Any thoughts at all about her "massive" posts?

Honestly hardly read them

DO YOUR READING.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

It's not that you were wrong it's that you were wrong about porscha specifically while zenon and I told you that you were wrong lol

Maybe. Zenon did end up voting for Porscha as well so....

Yeah we all make mistakes sometimes

Huh. You town read me than?

Yeah I still tr you. I expect you to talk yourself out of and/or be talked out of an accurate read in a way I dont usually see from mac, at least on this sort of read.

This is simultaneously true and harmful

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

It's not that you were wrong it's that you were wrong about porscha specifically while zenon and I told you that you were wrong lol

I bare much blame myself Nook

Idc you're still town

Wanna mason?

Heck yeah let's kill mac and/or Sean

Okay which one?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Vote: Maccas

[Kate]

how's that catch up coming Kate?

Well ots 315 and this is where I am. Unlike my spawn I do read the long posts.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

It's not that you were wrong it's that you were wrong about porscha specifically while zenon and I told you that you were wrong lol

Maybe. Zenon did end up voting for Porscha as well so....

Yeah we all make mistakes sometimes

Huh. You town read me than?

Yeah I still tr you. I expect you to talk yourself out of and/or be talked out of an accurate read in a way I dont usually see from mac, at least on this sort of read.

This is simultaneously true and harmful

I didn't mean it to be I'm sorry

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

It's not that you were wrong it's that you were wrong about porscha specifically while zenon and I told you that you were wrong lol

I bare much blame myself Nook

Idc you're still town

Wanna mason?

Heck yeah let's kill mac and/or Sean

Okay which one?

I'm on mac rn but I'm not picky

[Kate]

this has never happened has it zenon

Actually quite often recently

And if I wasn't a little dumb bitch town Porscha would still be here

alright give me the list of names of people I'm not allowed to chop cuz you think they're possible miselims

Zenon
Kate
Macdougall
DrWilgy
falcon45ca
jackofhearts2005
Michelle
Dubz
Thunal33
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME


This

Why on wilgy?

Ribbity vibbity vibes bb

I'm going to have to do a case study. My brain is stuck on him.

[Thunal33]

Epi civ, Thunal sin, Mac virtue, tutuu massive sinner, DOOM virtue, zenon leaning sin, Kate the one scum, Dubz leaning sin, Scotty leaning host

ttyl

Kate mafia? How come? @pyxxy

wanted to see her react to me saying it

still very cautious doesn't really line up with the Kate that solved Sumemr Sh*t by N2 and died for it

I think she's a sin

Do you still think this? She had clearly delineated reasons for that amazing call out she did in Summer Shit, there was a bit of a baddie panic in real time that she was in the thread for that gave her that. There isn't anything even remotely like that here; while I guess she could be a sin, her game as Lost Wolf in Scooby Doo I think it was, was impressive, and I think (could be wrong) that the Purples are perhaps similar to lost wolves, comparing her to a game where there was (at least on Day One, not sure if that is still the case, would Scotty even tell us if a bad team forms?) is pretty unfair, don't you think?

I'm just catching up to you, so if you went into more detail after this point, sorry, I'm not there yet.

I appreciate this read, it's very fair and unbiased. I have thought to myself about 1000x that I'll be punished for quite some time for having a few good games. I'll be lynched if I'm "off" and nk'd if I'm active. I'm trusting my gut a lot less her than I have been lately because the stuff I used to sus people isn't happening her. The last game for instance, the sdn'rs defended hard and that's where that solve came from. That just isn't gonna happen here.

I'm also petrified bc the person I want to vote the most is wilgy and I was massively wrong on him before.

I've been feeling the same way about this game. Even though there are 8 non-town I've had a hard time finding scumreads. Even Mac is a somewhat low confidence scumread for me.

@Seanzie what's your read on me? I thought you'd have one by this point.

[Kate]

Actually quite often recently

And if I wasn't a little dumb bitch town Porscha would still be here

alright give me the list of names of people I'm not allowed to chop cuz you think they're possible miselims

This

Why on wilgy?

Ribbity vibbity vibes bb

Updating this though

Zenon
Kate
Tutuu
falcon45ca
Michelle
Dubz
Thunal33
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Mac probs but less confident


Wilgz and Jack are gone Tutuu is on it

Ah! Finally! Why is he off. Is it something that can be articulated?