[WOLF WIN] Apathy Mafia

[Camilla]

Who 3rd?

Haven’t done my DD but I’m thinking within
Prince/Alison/falcon

I think J has a chance of being a wolf going UTR as I don't think Porscha's ping to him is that significant.

He kind of just dipped the moment we brought up Porscha's ping and that's kind of unlike him as he's more enthusiastic than this.

He tends to have a hectic schedule so he usually just posts in bursts rather than threadcamp but it was kind of odd for his energy to suddenly dissipate that quickly.

Yeah Porscha’s ping is the only mention of him, and as I said in the Porscha iso, she listed 3 low posters, but didn’t mention prince. Why?

I think we're reading too hard into Porscha complaining about lowposters.

I'd say it's Rule of Three but Rule of Three has become such a popular tell that a lot of wolves don't do it anymore.

I disagree.

Over half the playerlist was lowposting and I was TR’ing basically all the highposters then. It’s pretty much a nonissue and the fact that you’re taking a lot of my posts out of context so hard should be outing for any villages with an iota of critical thinking, tbh.

[Roxy]

Really curious as to who mafia chooses to shoot tonite.

Some tough decisions

Depends on if Wilgy's the RBer and if they found the doc or not. If they can stop the doc then it's most likely Alison being that she's basically the player who has had the strongest finger on the pulse on the game-state.

Like, I don't get why I'm being tinfoiled despite that the past two nightkills both had me as a very strong townread and that Zenon and I have a lot of mutual experience with each other.

You don’t get why you’re being tinfoiled?

You don’t really think that, do you? I mean, it’s not like you’ve been the beacon of towniness. I know why I’d be tinfoiled.

I mean, Zenon’s basically the person who had the most experience with me and she got NK’d while strongly TRing me and Tutuu also TR’d me so id you’re not going to take the reads of the dead into account then there’s nothing I can do.

I didn’t play d1 due to a mixture of work and chronic health issues so if the crux of this paranoia boils down to me not being able to play because of my body not allowing me to then why would I be bothered?

Well, zenon also hard defended Porscha and tutuu had her blinders on regarding me before she went down, so people can be wrong. It happens.

And I’m not criticizing your absence from D1 as a personal thing. I sense a bit of frustration there that I’d be judging you for that. When in reality, you being absent from the vote for Porscha objectively leaves you open to being partners purely by a voting standpoint. Does it not?

this has also been my reasoning since d 1 even tho Camilla tried to twist it to be something it was not.

[Camilla]

And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.

I mean, see how I was acting around Tutuu by immediately believing her strong TR then how I was trying to be hush-hush about it.

Of course

[Jackofhearts2005]

@falcon45ca

If Rondo's W then who's his last partner?

If he's a miss then who are the two wolves?

I've already said I feel there's a wolf in the 3 of Neon/tutuu/Alison





Who's a wolf when I flip green? Book it, I'm town

2 of Rondo/J/Wilgy/Pyxxy.

I don't get how you think there's a wolf in those three?

Does this look like Camilla talking about someone she thinks is green peeked?

[Camilla]

Wait, I have proof of this actually.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@falcon45ca

If Rondo's W then who's his last partner?

If he's a miss then who are the two wolves?

I've already said I feel there's a wolf in the 3 of Neon/tutuu/Alison





Who's a wolf when I flip green? Book it, I'm town

2 of Rondo/J/Wilgy/Pyxxy.

I don't get how you think there's a wolf in those three?

Does this look like Camilla talking about someone she thinks is green peeked?

Disregard. This is a misreading of what Camilla is saying.

[Camilla]

drwilgy
prince j
zenon
scotty

alison
falcon

pyxxy
roxy

camilla
rondo

drwilgy is unironically my top townread, he has 3 posts, isn't that glorious?

i moved alison down a category, thinking about it, just because "she is alison". i think shes mega towny in terms of posting, as i townread her early on, her voting mafia is great, but again, "its alison". befitting to be the same category as falcon. falcon i thought was towny from the little he posted, but "he's falcon", he won't post a lot, he can easily be mafia

Here's basically where I thought that Wilgy was copped since Tutuu put him at the top of her reads despite Wilgy doing nothing.

[Camilla]

im looking at camilla and rondo as top mafia suspects

then tinfoil category is pyxxy and roxy

then falcon category coz its falcon

everyone else is super town

What about Wilgy?

I basically have him in my "kinda villagery" area for his last vote on Porscha but in the end it I don't think that it was as good a reason for me to towncore him as Alison/You/Seanzie/Zenon.

I thought that this was weird for her to do so since Wilgy was basically fairly nullish to me as his vote did have bussing vibes.

[Scotty]

hmm, I just checked that progression. Camilla isn’t explaining herself well.

Check out this progression

Where tutuu lists her rainbow list towards top of day, with Wilgy weirdly listed as top town. Camilla asks about that read, and eventually pulls back because she thought she fucked up by blowing Tutuu’s cover.

The progression is all there, and I can see why from her perspective she would be paranoid of others going there.

However; that still doesn’t excuse why she would put Wilgy as a middling null in her own reads latwr

[Jackofhearts2005]

Idk at what point Neon claimed cop but by D3, Camilla has two wolves in this group as her solve:

Wilgy
Jack
Pyxxy
Falcon

[Camilla]

im looking at camilla and rondo as top mafia suspects

then tinfoil category is pyxxy and roxy

then falcon category coz its falcon

everyone else is super town

What about Wilgy?

I basically have him in my "kinda villagery" area for his last vote on Porscha but in the end it I don't think that it was as good a reason for me to towncore him as Alison/You/Seanzie/Zenon.

i had a villager read on him from his opening post of him being exhausted with his quirk

so basically he says that every game

one time he didn't - he was actual doctor. the next time he was doctor he said it, but im making the argument that wilgy attaches some ... lets say stress/anxiety/effort to his one-liner copy paste gimmick.

him expressing that he got tired of it this game, just like stopping it midway and being like "nvm" basically just reprents to me that he's a vanilla town. so in a way he "let jesus take the wheel"

i might be clearing him too easily, you are making me feel paranoid, but ...

he did sheep. which. hm.

if i try to justify my townread on wilgy im falling flat.

so lets say ... im just going with gut here. i cant provide solid logical argumetns for why wilgy is mega town

also to clarify im NOT softing a green on him

Yh, I'm fine with not voting Wilgy for today.

I don't wanna say anything more as I feel like I've already fucked up enough rn.

Here is where I admit that I blatantly outed my copread on Tutuu.

[pyxxy]

Y'know what?

I'm pretty much settled on the Jack/Wilgy world atp.

Jack's basically spending much of his time trying to tie me to Wilgy without giving much attention to the possibility that Pyxxy is a wolf or little paranoia outside of this PoE in a fairly transparent attempt that he knows that once Wilgy flips that the main mountain separating the wolves from winning is that I'll basically go the full Amrock to elim him.

This is basically textbook endgame wolf play to seal the game.

It makes sense too- this perspective. Because Jack wasn’t exactly gunning for Wilgy, and once the tides had changed to that as the possible yeet, he’s keeping options open.

But a wrinkle- he has just reasoned out that the team is just Wilgy/you. Not a lot of wiggle room. What happens when we yeet w!Wilgy and then t!you?
(Ignoring doc atm) After Wilgy, it’ll be 4v1. Miselim on you leads to f3. How does jack win in that scenario?

Because in a Pyxxy/Jack/You or Roxy endgame it's basically extremely easy for a wolf with WiM, which is basically the archetype that Jack is, to shift the elim on Pyxxy.

The guy nearly got chopped d1 and he's kind of been in the PoE and would've died if it was for Alison shielding him. Once Alison's dead he's basically easy pickings.

.......will you.......shield me.......next?..............

[pyxxy]

Y'know what?

I'm pretty much settled on the Jack/Wilgy world atp.

Jack's basically spending much of his time trying to tie me to Wilgy without giving much attention to the possibility that Pyxxy is a wolf or little paranoia outside of this PoE in a fairly transparent attempt that he knows that once Wilgy flips that the main mountain separating the wolves from winning is that I'll basically go the full Amrock to elim him.

This is basically textbook endgame wolf play to seal the game.

It makes sense too- this perspective. Because Jack wasn’t exactly gunning for Wilgy, and once the tides had changed to that as the possible yeet, he’s keeping options open.

But a wrinkle- he has just reasoned out that the team is just Wilgy/you. Not a lot of wiggle room. What happens when we yeet w!Wilgy and then t!you?
(Ignoring doc atm) After Wilgy, it’ll be 4v1. Miselim on you leads to f3. How does jack win in that scenario?

Because in a Pyxxy/Jack/You or Roxy endgame it's basically extremely easy for a wolf with WiM, which is basically the archetype that Jack is, to shift the elim on Pyxxy.

The guy nearly got chopped d1 and he's kind of been in the PoE and would've died if it was for Alison shielding him. Once Alison's dead he's basically easy pickings.

No way Pyxxy was dying D 1. Alison didn't post at all at EoD iirc she went offline in the early afternoon. As did Porscha. It was basically me against Zenon and Tutuu trying to save Porscha and both were mad when I tied it. Alison was no where around to defend Pyx at this time. So I do not know how Alison could have been "sheilding" them lol

I still think Pyx is town.
Or I am wronger than I have been in awhile.
Which is true idk.

.......camilla.......is.......referring..............to.......basically everything.......after.......D1.......

.......if.......there's.......a pocket.......in.......this game..............it's me.......in.......Alison's.......

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm too deep in my tunnel to consider town Camilla any further.

[pyxxy]

That jack is willing to die even before Camilla when Wilgy flips wolf is downright telling btw

.......helluva.......lotta..............pre-flipping.......here..............batman.......

[Camilla]

hmm, I just checked that progression. Camilla isn’t explaining herself well.

Check out this progression

Where tutuu lists her rainbow list towards top of day, with Wilgy weirdly listed as top town. Camilla asks about that read, and eventually pulls back because she thought she fucked up by blowing Tutuu’s cover.

The progression is all there, and I can see why from her perspective she would be paranoid of others going there.

However; that still doesn’t excuse why she would put Wilgy as a middling null in her own reads latwr

Again, if I suddenly put Wilgy at the top after that exchange with Tutuu it would basically out to the wolves that I read Tutuu Cop with a green check on Wilgy.

The entire reasoning I put Wilgy in the null zone was so I'd disguise this read and not talk more about it.

[Scotty]

How we feeling with Rondo/falcon wagons? I feel pretty good that at least one of these is wolf

Maybe?

I'm still fairly certain on Alison/Zenon, a bit less on you/Tutu. Roxy is probably just a villa.

Atp Wilgy/J feel like reading tea leaves and are also in my PoE as Pyxxy so I'm not 100% certain that these wagons have at least 1 wolf in them.

Wilgy is so null, trying to find his alignment is like "reading tea leaves."

Again, this is a player Camilla claims to think is green peeked.

I also don’t get that quote. If she feels she’s identified the cop on D2, why would she even mention that she’s a bit less certain on tutuu?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm too deep in my tunnel to consider town Camilla any further.

Even though the evidence is a bit more muddied than previously believed.

[Scotty]

im looking at camilla and rondo as top mafia suspects

then tinfoil category is pyxxy and roxy

then falcon category coz its falcon

everyone else is super town

What about Wilgy?

I basically have him in my "kinda villagery" area for his last vote on Porscha but in the end it I don't think that it was as good a reason for me to towncore him as Alison/You/Seanzie/Zenon.

i had a villager read on him from his opening post of him being exhausted with his quirk

so basically he says that every game

one time he didn't - he was actual doctor. the next time he was doctor he said it, but im making the argument that wilgy attaches some ... lets say stress/anxiety/effort to his one-liner copy paste gimmick.

him expressing that he got tired of it this game, just like stopping it midway and being like "nvm" basically just reprents to me that he's a vanilla town. so in a way he "let jesus take the wheel"

i might be clearing him too easily, you are making me feel paranoid, but ...

he did sheep. which. hm.

if i try to justify my townread on wilgy im falling flat.

so lets say ... im just going with gut here. i cant provide solid logical argumetns for why wilgy is mega town

also to clarify im NOT softing a green on him

Yh, I'm fine with not voting Wilgy for today.

I don't wanna say anything more as I feel like I've already fucked up enough rn.

Just pulling some Camilla/Wilgy interactives.

I interpreted this as Tutuu having a green check on Wilgy. Which shows a lack of TMI rather than agenda.

There is no way Tutuu could have had a green check on anyone tbh.

Well we know this now, but I can see the viewpoint Camilla is talking about. Tutuu came into d2 with a full rainbow list and listed Wilgy as top town based on almost nothing.

I missed it at the time because I wasn’t cop hunting, but Camilla does allude to that

[pyxxy]

.......still behind.......but.......idk..............jack.......you're.......going..............a bit hard.......

..............maybe..............breather..............still.......a.......few hours.......until.......eod..............unless.......you'll..............be busy.......

[Camilla]

How we feeling with Rondo/falcon wagons? I feel pretty good that at least one of these is wolf

Maybe?

I'm still fairly certain on Alison/Zenon, a bit less on you/Tutu. Roxy is probably just a villa.

Atp Wilgy/J feel like reading tea leaves and are also in my PoE as Pyxxy so I'm not 100% certain that these wagons have at least 1 wolf in them.

Wilgy is so null, trying to find his alignment is like "reading tea leaves."

Again, this is a player Camilla claims to think is green peeked.

I also don’t get that quote. If she feels she’s identified the cop on D2, why would she even mention that she’s a bit less certain on tutuu?

Again, I did not want to telegraph the wolves who I thought the cop was.

After I realized how badly I fucked up at the SoD2 I kept my read on Tutu/Wilgy but faked my reads so it'd look like I didn't read them as cop/n1 green check.

[Scotty]

And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.

I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible

[pyxxy]

.......I.......don't.......want..............to change.......yeet.......from.......wilgy.......to be clear.......

..............I.......was.......already.......worried..............about.......wilgz..............in.......xylo..............being..............easy.......mischop.......

.......bc.......everyone.......hates.......losing.......to..............low posting.......wolf.......

.......scummy post..............I know..............

[Jackofhearts2005]

Me real quick internalizing if there's anyone besides Camilla that could be wolves with Wilgy or there's any wolfteam that doesn't include either Wilgy or Camilla.

I'm coming back with "I guess there's a very slim chance of Alison wolves with Wilgy instead of Camilla and I've missed it for not really looking at Alison" and "I guess there's a very slim chance of Pyxxy and Alison but I don't think we ever get there so it's not really worth looking into."

[Camilla]

And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.

I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible

If Tutuu was a cop and she was being cop read she'd not go "YES CAMILLA, I'M THE COP AND I HAVE A GREEN ON WILGY."

It's pretty much an argument completely done in bad faith as you are supposed to keep the PRs hidden and someone who's been playing this game for as long as Jack should be aware of that.

[Scotty]

Idk at what point Neon claimed cop but by D3, Camilla has two wolves in this group as her solve:

Wilgy
Jack
Pyxxy
Falcon

Neon never claimed cop afaik

It was only her death and looking back into her blatant defending of tutuu that the info came out

[Jackofhearts2005]

Me real quick internalizing if there's anyone besides Camilla that could be wolves with Wilgy or there's any wolfteam that doesn't include either Wilgy or Camilla.

I'm coming back with "I guess there's a very slim chance of Alison wolves with Wilgy instead of Camilla and I've missed it for not really looking at Alison" and "I guess there's a very slim chance of Pyxxy and Alison but I don't think we ever get there so it's not really worth looking into."

This is mostly based off the idea that the Camilla "I thought Wilgy was a green peek from Tutuu" is actually somewhat believable and it would be kinda weird for w!Camilla to commit to this theatre if she knows Wilgy is also a wolf. I mean....I'd do it. I've done it in the past. But I don't really think most players do this. Idk. Thoughts?

[Roxy]

And just for @Scotty and @Roxy worrying about me not voting fast enough, here are the receipts for that being normal town Jack behavior.

viewtopic.php?t=2485
Scooby Doo Monster Collective. I'm the D2 (mis)elimination. I vote once all game and it's on the last page of my iso.

viewtopic.php?t=2458
Cartomancy. Wolves conceed D5. I vote 4 times all game.

viewtopic.php?t=2445
Nanook's Anniversary Game. I suicide kill w!Doby middle of D2. I cast 1 vote all game.

Me not voting has nothing to do with...whyever a wolf player in my situation might not vote and everything to do with the way I play the game, which is to treat my vote like a gun. I only aim it at something I intend to kill.

nah I do not do "meta" I do vibes/tone/feels. So thats the biggest NO from me I refuse to read back at a past game lmao

Just as an awareness thing- and it’s no big deal- but when you bring up points like you did earlier on how ‘I’ve played with you before and should know your games’ this is kinda how I feel too. Meta can be hard for me to grab onto, because a) meta can change and b) I don’t have the mental capacity to remember people’s nuances.

Again, just bringing awareness that you seem to not want to use meta when looking at other people but use it as a defense when others suspect you, and it can come off as hypocritical.

Please know this is not an indictment on your character, but how I read you in games

lmao I did do that

I cannot thank you enough for this post I will try to refrain from it in new games. <3

[Scotty]

That jack is willing to die even before Camilla when Wilgy flips wolf is downright telling btw

.......helluva.......lotta..............pre-flipping.......here..............batman.......

Have you read the previous posts I’ve made today.

We’ve moved on from checkers and we’re playing warhammer bro

[Camilla]

Me real quick internalizing if there's anyone besides Camilla that could be wolves with Wilgy or there's any wolfteam that doesn't include either Wilgy or Camilla.

I'm coming back with "I guess there's a very slim chance of Alison wolves with Wilgy instead of Camilla and I've missed it for not really looking at Alison" and "I guess there's a very slim chance of Pyxxy and Alison but I don't think we ever get there so it's not really worth looking into."

This is mostly based off the idea that the Camilla "I thought Wilgy was a green peek from Tutuu" is actually somewhat believable and it would be kinda weird for w!Camilla to commit to this theatre if she knows Wilgy is also a wolf. I mean....I'd do it. I've done it in the past. But I don't really think most players do this. Idk. Thoughts?

Wasn't it painfully obvious that this was what happened D2?

[Jackofhearts2005]

And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.

I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible

If Tutuu was a cop and she was being cop read she'd not go "YES CAMILLA, I'M THE COP AND I HAVE A GREEN ON WILGY."

It's pretty much an argument completely done in bad faith as you are supposed to keep the PRs hidden and someone who's been playing this game for as long as Jack should be aware of that.

But this....didn't really happen? Like I don't see where Tutuu sees Camilla thinking she's the cop and so responds "I do not have a green on Wilgy btw" as like cover. It seems like she realizes someone in general could misinterpret that and so she specifically claims that isn't the case so as to not give that impression.

[Scotty]

hmm, I just checked that progression. Camilla isn’t explaining herself well.

Check out this progression

Where tutuu lists her rainbow list towards top of day, with Wilgy weirdly listed as top town. Camilla asks about that read, and eventually pulls back because she thought she fucked up by blowing Tutuu’s cover.

The progression is all there, and I can see why from her perspective she would be paranoid of others going there.

However; that still doesn’t excuse why she would put Wilgy as a middling null in her own reads latwr

Again, if I suddenly put Wilgy at the top after that exchange with Tutuu it would basically out to the wolves that I read Tutuu Cop with a green check on Wilgy.

The entire reasoning I put Wilgy in the null zone was so I'd disguise this read and not talk more about it.

Come on though- you were a town voice. Why put Wilgy in nulls at all? You had 3 other town reads- you can easily put him in bottom of the town. Hell, you even had him below me, of all people

[pyxxy]

At this point, while I appreciate the thunderdome, I’m still nervous about Wilgy.

But with both of you basically crossing off Wilgy on your grocery list and waiting at the checkout counter, Wilgy’s scum equity is almost guaranteed or else town is completely off their rocker

If Wilgy's a villager then the game-state's completely fucked up.

The wolves in this case would be Jack plus one of you or Pyxxy but your paranoia has felt villagery and Pyxxy has had some good spots despite gimmicking, and Pyxxy has had some non-W/Wish interactions with Jack.

It can technically be but with how Jack's playing this endgame I feel like it's just him and Wilgy.

Well if Wilgy is town, I’m turboing you or Alison tomorrow.

And I’m probably not turboing Alison.

I don’t believe both you and Alison to be bad, ergo to have this switch onto Wilgy today when pyxxy would have been a perfectly easy sleepwalk today is suspect.

So agreed- if Wilgy is town, game state is fucked

.......serious.......moment.......scotty..............

.......I'm.......holding you.......to this..............wilgy town..............jack dies.......

..............also.......can't you see..............I'm.......spewed town..............by the thread now?.....................

[Jackofhearts2005]

That jack is willing to die even before Camilla when Wilgy flips wolf is downright telling btw

.......helluva.......lotta..............pre-flipping.......here..............batman.......

Have you read the previous posts I’ve made today.

We’ve moved on from checkers and we’re playing warhammer bro

dakkadakkadakkadakka

[pyxxy]

That jack is willing to die even before Camilla when Wilgy flips wolf is downright telling btw

.......helluva.......lotta..............pre-flipping.......here..............batman.......

Have you read the previous posts I’ve made today.

We’ve moved on from checkers and we’re playing warhammer bro

.......sure.......no worries..............this wasn't a critique.......more..............a check-in..............ty.......for checking in.......

[Scotty]

Me real quick internalizing if there's anyone besides Camilla that could be wolves with Wilgy or there's any wolfteam that doesn't include either Wilgy or Camilla.

I'm coming back with "I guess there's a very slim chance of Alison wolves with Wilgy instead of Camilla and I've missed it for not really looking at Alison" and "I guess there's a very slim chance of Pyxxy and Alison but I don't think we ever get there so it's not really worth looking into."

If Wilgy is wolf, Alison is clear as far as I’m concerned

[Scotty]

And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.

I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible

If Tutuu was a cop and she was being cop read she'd not go "YES CAMILLA, I'M THE COP AND I HAVE A GREEN ON WILGY."

It's pretty much an argument completely done in bad faith as you are supposed to keep the PRs hidden and someone who's been playing this game for as long as Jack should be aware of that.

Wait I’m confused- this sounds like you’re arguing that you determined she was not the cop

Am I missing the crux of this?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Me real quick internalizing if there's anyone besides Camilla that could be wolves with Wilgy or there's any wolfteam that doesn't include either Wilgy or Camilla.

I'm coming back with "I guess there's a very slim chance of Alison wolves with Wilgy instead of Camilla and I've missed it for not really looking at Alison" and "I guess there's a very slim chance of Pyxxy and Alison but I don't think we ever get there so it's not really worth looking into."

This is mostly based off the idea that the Camilla "I thought Wilgy was a green peek from Tutuu" is actually somewhat believable and it would be kinda weird for w!Camilla to commit to this theatre if she knows Wilgy is also a wolf. I mean....I'd do it. I've done it in the past. But I don't really think most players do this. Idk. Thoughts?

Wasn't it painfully obvious that this was what happened D2?

It's really not.

The problem is that "I am teamed with Wilgy and so I'm going to continually put him at the bottom of my greens so that he's off the table without it looking like I'm defending him and I'm going to put him in the POE but not really talk about him so that he's on the table but not the focus and it doesn't look like I'm defending him" and "I think Wilgy is green peeked so I'm going to put him at the bottom of my greens/edge of my POE so that I don't out Tutuu as the cop and Wigly as the peek but also he never goes over today" look very very similar.

In both cases, you're looking to keep Wilgy from getting yeeted without looking like you're trying to keep Wilgy from getting yeeted.

[Camilla]

hmm, I just checked that progression. Camilla isn’t explaining herself well.

Check out this progression

Where tutuu lists her rainbow list towards top of day, with Wilgy weirdly listed as top town. Camilla asks about that read, and eventually pulls back because she thought she fucked up by blowing Tutuu’s cover.

The progression is all there, and I can see why from her perspective she would be paranoid of others going there.

However; that still doesn’t excuse why she would put Wilgy as a middling null in her own reads latwr

Again, if I suddenly put Wilgy at the top after that exchange with Tutuu it would basically out to the wolves that I read Tutuu Cop with a green check on Wilgy.

The entire reasoning I put Wilgy in the null zone was so I'd disguise this read and not talk more about it.

Come on though- you were a town voice. Why put Wilgy in nulls at all? You had 3 other town reads- you can easily put him in bottom of the town. Hell, you even had him below me, of all people

Again, I panicked when I realized that I was "outing" Tutuu and had no idea what to do with it. I just didn't want to talk about it anymore to prevent spewing.

If Tutu flipped cop then I'd just put Wilgy as V and then actually out it. Yes, it's an awkward way of handling a wolf slot but as you can see in my SoD it was pretty much done as a result of me misreading Tutu as cop.

[Roxy]

im looking at camilla and rondo as top mafia suspects

then tinfoil category is pyxxy and roxy

then falcon category coz its falcon

everyone else is super town

What about Wilgy?

I basically have him in my "kinda villagery" area for his last vote on Porscha but in the end it I don't think that it was as good a reason for me to towncore him as Alison/You/Seanzie/Zenon.

I thought that this was weird for her to do so since Wilgy was basically fairly nullish to me as his vote did have bussing vibes.

so Tutuu had you and Rondo as her top two mafia suspects...............

[Jackofhearts2005]

Me real quick internalizing if there's anyone besides Camilla that could be wolves with Wilgy or there's any wolfteam that doesn't include either Wilgy or Camilla.

I'm coming back with "I guess there's a very slim chance of Alison wolves with Wilgy instead of Camilla and I've missed it for not really looking at Alison" and "I guess there's a very slim chance of Pyxxy and Alison but I don't think we ever get there so it's not really worth looking into."

If Wilgy is wolf, Alison is clear as far as I’m concerned

Oh yeah, she did push Wilgy pretty hard at start of day and do that silly "clear Camilla if she votes for Wilgy" thing.

If she's the wolf, it's expected that she is nked after we yeet wolf Wilgy and it will be problematic when that doesn't happen. Ergo she's always just town if Wilgy is a wolf.

Good good.

[pyxxy]

.......@Scotty.......what.......do.......you make.......of.......wolf!Camilla..............being.......the topic.......that.......Roxy.......has sunk..............her teeth.......into.............. the deepest?.......

*stirs the pot*

[Scotty]

And just for @Scotty and @Roxy worrying about me not voting fast enough, here are the receipts for that being normal town Jack behavior.

viewtopic.php?t=2485
Scooby Doo Monster Collective. I'm the D2 (mis)elimination. I vote once all game and it's on the last page of my iso.

viewtopic.php?t=2458
Cartomancy. Wolves conceed D5. I vote 4 times all game.

viewtopic.php?t=2445
Nanook's Anniversary Game. I suicide kill w!Doby middle of D2. I cast 1 vote all game.

Me not voting has nothing to do with...whyever a wolf player in my situation might not vote and everything to do with the way I play the game, which is to treat my vote like a gun. I only aim it at something I intend to kill.

nah I do not do "meta" I do vibes/tone/feels. So thats the biggest NO from me I refuse to read back at a past game lmao

Just as an awareness thing- and it’s no big deal- but when you bring up points like you did earlier on how ‘I’ve played with you before and should know your games’ this is kinda how I feel too. Meta can be hard for me to grab onto, because a) meta can change and b) I don’t have the mental capacity to remember people’s nuances.

Again, just bringing awareness that you seem to not want to use meta when looking at other people but use it as a defense when others suspect you, and it can come off as hypocritical.

Please know this is not an indictment on your character, but how I read you in games

lmao I did do that

I cannot thank you enough for this post I will try to refrain from it in new games. <3

How’s your 30th birthday treating you?

[Camilla]

And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.

I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible

If Tutuu was a cop and she was being cop read she'd not go "YES CAMILLA, I'M THE COP AND I HAVE A GREEN ON WILGY."

It's pretty much an argument completely done in bad faith as you are supposed to keep the PRs hidden and someone who's been playing this game for as long as Jack should be aware of that.

Wait I’m confused- this sounds like you’re arguing that you determined she was not the cop

Am I missing the crux of this?

I think so.

Here's what's happened.

1) I determined that she was the cop for putting a slanker as her top town read overnight, which felt that she n1'd Wilgy and found him green.
2) I did not want others to know that I thought that she was the cop so I lied about my reads and added artificial uncertainty to them.

That's basically it. Want me to out my doctor read as well?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Me real quick internalizing if there's anyone besides Camilla that could be wolves with Wilgy or there's any wolfteam that doesn't include either Wilgy or Camilla.

I'm coming back with "I guess there's a very slim chance of Alison wolves with Wilgy instead of Camilla and I've missed it for not really looking at Alison" and "I guess there's a very slim chance of Pyxxy and Alison but I don't think we ever get there so it's not really worth looking into."

If Wilgy is wolf, Alison is clear as far as I’m concerned

Oh yeah, she did push Wilgy pretty hard at start of day and do that silly "clear Camilla if she votes for Wilgy" thing.

If she's the wolf, it's expected that she is nked after we yeet wolf Wilgy and it will be problematic when that doesn't happen. Ergo she's always just town if Wilgy is a wolf.

Good good.

There's also very little reason for w!Alison to hellbus Wilgy. Like at 5 vs 2, to win, she needs 2 misyeets. Probably in Pyxxy, Camilla, Jack but at the time she started pushing Wilgy, Scotty and Roxy were also viable. All townies misyeetable. Why hellbus your partner and draw extra attention to yourself when any other yeet is preferable and if Wilgy is gonna go, it's better to NOT be hellbussing so that nobody questions why you aren't nked. There's just no way it's Wilgy/Alison.

[Camilla]

im looking at camilla and rondo as top mafia suspects

then tinfoil category is pyxxy and roxy

then falcon category coz its falcon

everyone else is super town

What about Wilgy?

I basically have him in my "kinda villagery" area for his last vote on Porscha but in the end it I don't think that it was as good a reason for me to towncore him as Alison/You/Seanzie/Zenon.

I thought that this was weird for her to do so since Wilgy was basically fairly nullish to me as his vote did have bussing vibes.

so Tutuu had you and Rondo as her top two mafia suspects...............

Okay, are you reading the thread?

Tutu had me as her top suspect at the SoD2 but then during D2 and D3 she began townreading me. I can literally bring up any of Tutu's posts to prove this shit.

[Scotty]

At this point, while I appreciate the thunderdome, I’m still nervous about Wilgy.

But with both of you basically crossing off Wilgy on your grocery list and waiting at the checkout counter, Wilgy’s scum equity is almost guaranteed or else town is completely off their rocker

If Wilgy's a villager then the game-state's completely fucked up.

The wolves in this case would be Jack plus one of you or Pyxxy but your paranoia has felt villagery and Pyxxy has had some good spots despite gimmicking, and Pyxxy has had some non-W/Wish interactions with Jack.

It can technically be but with how Jack's playing this endgame I feel like it's just him and Wilgy.

Well if Wilgy is town, I’m turboing you or Alison tomorrow.

And I’m probably not turboing Alison.

I don’t believe both you and Alison to be bad, ergo to have this switch onto Wilgy today when pyxxy would have been a perfectly easy sleepwalk today is suspect.

So agreed- if Wilgy is town, game state is fucked

.......serious.......moment.......scotty..............

.......I'm.......holding you.......to this..............wilgy town..............jack dies.......

..............also.......can't you see..............I'm.......spewed town..............by the thread now?.....................

Dude you’re not even on my radar since I woke up this morning.

If Wilgy wolf, I think it less likely you’re wolf

If Wilgy town, game state is fucked and I reassess, but Camilla/Alison is def wolf

[Camilla]

Me real quick internalizing if there's anyone besides Camilla that could be wolves with Wilgy or there's any wolfteam that doesn't include either Wilgy or Camilla.

I'm coming back with "I guess there's a very slim chance of Alison wolves with Wilgy instead of Camilla and I've missed it for not really looking at Alison" and "I guess there's a very slim chance of Pyxxy and Alison but I don't think we ever get there so it's not really worth looking into."

If Wilgy is wolf, Alison is clear as far as I’m concerned

Oh yeah, she did push Wilgy pretty hard at start of day and do that silly "clear Camilla if she votes for Wilgy" thing.

If she's the wolf, it's expected that she is nked after we yeet wolf Wilgy and it will be problematic when that doesn't happen. Ergo she's always just town if Wilgy is a wolf.

Good good.

There's also very little reason for w!Alison to hellbus Wilgy. Like at 5 vs 2, to win, she needs 2 misyeets. Probably in Pyxxy, Camilla, Jack but at the time she started pushing Wilgy, Scotty and Roxy were also viable. All townies misyeetable. Why hellbus your partner and draw extra attention to yourself when any other yeet is preferable and if Wilgy is gonna go, it's better to NOT be hellbussing so that nobody questions why you aren't nked. There's just no way it's Wilgy/Alison.

If it's Wilgy/Alison then Alison just lets town self-destruct rather than bus.

I don't know why is this possibility even being raised.

[Scotty]

Me real quick internalizing if there's anyone besides Camilla that could be wolves with Wilgy or there's any wolfteam that doesn't include either Wilgy or Camilla.

I'm coming back with "I guess there's a very slim chance of Alison wolves with Wilgy instead of Camilla and I've missed it for not really looking at Alison" and "I guess there's a very slim chance of Pyxxy and Alison but I don't think we ever get there so it's not really worth looking into."

This is mostly based off the idea that the Camilla "I thought Wilgy was a green peek from Tutuu" is actually somewhat believable and it would be kinda weird for w!Camilla to commit to this theatre if she knows Wilgy is also a wolf. I mean....I'd do it. I've done it in the past. But I don't really think most players do this. Idk. Thoughts?

Wasn't it painfully obvious that this was what happened D2?

It's really not.

The problem is that "I am teamed with Wilgy and so I'm going to continually put him at the bottom of my greens so that he's off the table without it looking like I'm defending him and I'm going to put him in the POE but not really talk about him so that he's on the table but not the focus and it doesn't look like I'm defending him" and "I think Wilgy is green peeked so I'm going to put him at the bottom of my greens/edge of my POE so that I don't out Tutuu as the cop and Wigly as the peek but also he never goes over today" look very very similar.

In both cases, you're looking to keep Wilgy from getting yeeted without looking like you're trying to keep Wilgy from getting yeeted.

That sentence was so long it outran Forrest Gump

[Roxy]

And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.

I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible

Tutuu is a bit of a messy player (but I am messier) I do not think of this post at all like a wifom. If it is then we should be paying attention to who she thought was mafia. FYI it was Rondo/Camilla