[WOLF WIN] Apathy Mafia

[Alison]

I have liked jack's recent solving. Feels thoughtful even if i dont agree with all of it, and forcibly taking roxy and scotty out of his POE would make his life hard and commit him to a very narrow worldview as mafia.

[Camilla]

I have liked jack's recent solving. Feels thoughtful even if i dont agree with all of it, and forcibly taking roxy and scotty out of his POE would make his life hard and commit him to a very narrow worldview as mafia.

In a W!Jack world then it doesn't really mean much.

If he's W then he needs two MLs and even if his teammate is in Wilgy/Pyxxy then he just needs to mislynch the villager there then take Scotty/Roxy to the F3 with me for the win.

He doesn't even need to re-open the PoE for a win.

[Scotty]

I have liked jack's recent solving. Feels thoughtful even if i dont agree with all of it, and forcibly taking roxy and scotty out of his POE would make his life hard and commit him to a very narrow worldview as mafia.

In a W!Jack world then it doesn't really mean much.

If he's W then he needs two MLs and even if his teammate is in Wilgy/Pyxxy then he just needs to mislynch the villager there then take Scotty/Roxy to the F3 with me for the win.

He doesn't even need to re-open the PoE for a win.

if mafia takes me to the Fx, they will lose. Book it.

(Also please NK me before then so I don’t have to make difficult decisions kthnx)

[Scotty]

Also happy birthday @Roxy !

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy @Roxy Can I hear you two's detailed thoughts on reads/solve/gamestate

I don't really know where your heads are at and id like to get a clearer read on you

There hasn't been much evolution. Falcon was a sleepwalk misyeet I think. Feel that Falcon should've been somewhat threadspewed.

There's one in Pyxxy/Scotty, probably just Pyxxy

There's one in Camilla/Roxy/Jack and that should be solved after we resolve the d1 tomfoolery.

Why exactly can't it be Pyxxy/Scotty?

I think Pyxxy/Jack is the simplest world but with Falcon/Rondo both villagers it shows that we're not living in the easy world anymore.

Because Porscha was not a wagon without resistance. Every time I've seen that resistance it's due to there being an unpure element in the CW.

Plus Pyxxy flipping W would really explain why Porscha was still gunning for the lhf in spite of the self save vote just being the best option. I really feel hung up on that interaction. Porscha had no reason to call out, you, me or Prince J if they were content on their Pyxxy self pres.

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy @Roxy Can I hear you two's detailed thoughts on reads/solve/gamestate

I don't really know where your heads are at and id like to get a clearer read on you

There hasn't been much evolution. Falcon was a sleepwalk misyeet I think. Feel that Falcon should've been somewhat threadspewed.

There's one in Pyxxy/Scotty, probably just Pyxxy

There's one in Camilla/Roxy/Jack and that should be solved after we resolve the d1 tomfoolery.

Talk to me about "one in Pyxxy/Scotty." I get the Pyxxy case. I get that Scotty is somewhat antialigned with Pyxxy (and Falcon before he died). I get that there was a post or two from Scotty that were bad and Tutuu really suspected him.

Is that the whole thing? Is there more to it than that?

Cause Pyxxy/Scotty -> if necessary Scotty/Pyxxy is a super convenient yeet for me if there really is a wolf there. We get a second wolf. We have two wolves dead and lots of important eod and interactives to find the last wolf. I think we can win no matter who the third wolf is in that scenario.

But if there are zero wolves in Pyxxy and Scotty? We lose if we misyeet both.

If you're sure there's a wolf there, convince me there's for sure a wolf there.

So, like I'm pretty sure after the Falcon misyeet, we don't have the wiggle room to yeet Scotty. Scotty has had a very townie voice all game and I only reconsider that in a T Pyxxy world.

Re the dif check between them, it's because the Pyxxy CW to a wolf yeet was very real. I think it's hard for me to think that there weren't more wolves involved in the CW than just Porscha, especially due to Rondo voting off wagon was just town.

Further, d1 players that are still around
On CW or target of CW Scotty/Pyxxy
Off wagon Camilla/Prince
Potential bus Alison/Roxy

I do not feel comfortable assessing the off wagon nulls until we get another pelt Unless it's just you/Camilla, especially after being wrong on Rondo. I don't think Roxy or Alison are wolves.

Effectively my PoE is Pyxxy, you, Camilla.

[DrWilgy]

.......fuck it............................[VOTE: wilgy] aubergine.......

.......wanted.......to see..............how much.......whim..............would be.......expended.......

..............that's.......a passing.......grade.......

C'mon, you started off the day fishing for this trying to discredit me being 0/4 in spite of my pelt, and as soon as Jack hands it to you you take it?

[DrWilgy]

If pyxxy is partners with Wilgy, I scratch my head at how Wilgy firmly was in the camp of falcon good, pyxxy bad. I mean, it could just be that falcon was going over regardless so it was just firm-sounding words.

But then he comes into today basically with ‘we need to resolve pyxxy/Scotty, and I think Scotty is good’

Like, what kind of strategy is that from your partner? It’s a bit less believable to me

Yeah, yikes, I think I’m coming around on an angle where I can easily see Wilgy having an agenda, and I’m not as sure with his partner being pyxxy.

[VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine

I had been saying I don't like the Falcon yeet from even before Rondo going over. What makes you think I've just magically changed positions here?

I wanted Pyxxy over yesterday because the CW needs to be solved. It's either solved by flipping you or Pyxxy. I just wanted Pyxxy because they were much more likely W and you were much more likely T. My PoE hasn't vastly evolved due to us yeeting Falcon who had 0 thread weight.

[DrWilgy]

Blah,

We quite literally walked into a bad yeet for no reason, Falcon yielded 0 information and should've been townspewed. And I can't tell if I'm just frustrated because I know I should've spoken up more.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Alison

If he's a wolf then who do you think is his most likely partner?

So far pretty much everyone has been TRing him or giving him a pass which basically mean that if he's W then pretty much none of the PoE is cleared.

probs not scotty/pyxxy given his eagerness to force there today

Probably just roxy or jack

Hmm. But if I believe my townreads, the solve is Wilgy and one of Scotty/Pyxxy.

And indeed, Alison and Camilla voting Wilgy so (granted, it’s easy for Camilla to switch and winnable for her to bus Wilgy) surely not Alison/Wilgy and less likely to be Camilla/Wilgy.

So is Alison right about w!Wilgy but wrong about Wilgy being antialigned w/Scotty/Pyxxy (requires Wilgy to endgame alone, kinda unlikely, or to assume his partner wins the thunderdome…probably exactly Scotty)?

Or is Alison wrong on Wilgy? And if she’s wrong on Wilgy, what other team even makes sense? A reevaluation on Alison/Camilla necessary if Wilgy is town because I’m town, Roxy is town and Scotty and Pyxxy has max 1 wolf. Literally nowhere else for a wolf to exist. (Also, this line of thinking really leans into Wilgy+Jack world from t!Alison’s pov but it can’t be helped.)

why does wolf wilgy flip the coin on his partner winning the dome instead of going "maybe it's not pyx/scotty" to widen the poe like everyone else was?

I'm not really in this world anymore (seeing Scotty as very very likely town) but from the pov of me at the time, I'm agreeing with you.

I'm saying "If Alison is right about w!Wilgy but wrong about him being antialigned with Scotty/Pyxxy, it would require Wilgy to endgame alone or assume his partner wins the dome. I don't think w!Wilgy thinks he will endgame alone so I don't think that's the case. I don't think w!Wilgy assumes his partner, w!Pyxxy, wins the Scotty/Pyxxy dome so I don't think that's the case. Maybe if it's Wilgy+Scotty."

But to your point, if it's Wilgy+Scotty (which I don't think because I think Scotty is town), it would make more sense for Wilgy to not lean into that dome.

And to your point, if it's Wilgy+Pyxxy, it makes even more sense to not lean into that dome.

If POE is Pyxxy/Wilgy/Camilla, it makes more sense to see Wilgy/Camilla as the solve based on this. It's not gonna be based just on this but this could be key.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I have liked jack's recent solving. Feels thoughtful even if i dont agree with all of it, and forcibly taking roxy and scotty out of his POE would make his life hard and commit him to a very narrow worldview as mafia.

In a W!Jack world then it doesn't really mean much.

If he's W then he needs two MLs and even if his teammate is in Wilgy/Pyxxy then he just needs to mislynch the villager there then take Scotty/Roxy to the F3 with me for the win.

He doesn't even need to re-open the PoE for a win.

I also just want to believe in a Wilgy/Camilla world because Camilla seems desperate to add people to the POE that shouldn't be in it. On D2, that was Roxy. On D4, it's me. All Camilla's solving around these two slots seems illogical and/or desperate.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Like you can follow Scotty's train of logic on Roxy and you can see where he makes a logical and genuine scumread on her based on her behavior wrt Porscha and then makes a genuine turnaround on it based on agreeing with the meta she points out and then as Roxy goes after Scotty for his incorrect prior scumread on her like an hour or two (I have no idea how many hours, just that it was in the past and Scotty was present with different reads than Roxy was going after him for having), Scotty is just like "keep reading" which makes sense from the perspective of a townie that now townreads Roxy and knows that she will come to more correct conclusions once she catches up. It's the mindset of a townie. It's not defensive or opportunistic or anything.

Contrast Camilla's push on Roxy, which starts with her piggybacking Tutuu suspicion and throwing out a POE of Falcon/Pyxxy/Roxy/Rondo/Falcon (lol double Falcon what does it mean), which contains at most 1 wolf and imo contains 0 wolves, advances to calling Roxy "slimey" for saying Camilla wasn't doing anything when she had real life shit going on (defensive, granted, defensiveness isn't necessarily wolfy), then calls Roxy's readlist too hedgey, then votes Roxy. It's stilted. Constructed. Does not feel like a natural progression but a calculated one. And when Scotty initially turns on his Roxy scumread, Camilla questions it. Scotty comes back being more sure of his read on Roxy and then Camilla drops the whole thing and blames others for not making Roxy's meta clear. Not everything in here is fully wolf motivated but everything fits wolf motivation and nothing fits townie only motivation.

Also in looking back at this, I'm seeing nothing in the Camilla/Wilgy interactions that looks unaligned.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@DrWilgy @Roxy Can I hear you two's detailed thoughts on reads/solve/gamestate

I don't really know where your heads are at and id like to get a clearer read on you

There hasn't been much evolution. Falcon was a sleepwalk misyeet I think. Feel that Falcon should've been somewhat threadspewed.

There's one in Pyxxy/Scotty, probably just Pyxxy

There's one in Camilla/Roxy/Jack and that should be solved after we resolve the d1 tomfoolery.

Why exactly can't it be Pyxxy/Scotty?

I think Pyxxy/Jack is the simplest world but with Falcon/Rondo both villagers it shows that we're not living in the easy world anymore.

Because Porscha was not a wagon without resistance. Every time I've seen that resistance it's due to there being an unpure element in the CW.

Plus Pyxxy flipping W would really explain why Porscha was still gunning for the lhf in spite of the self save vote just being the best option. I really feel hung up on that interaction. Porscha had no reason to call out, you, me or Prince J if they were content on their Pyxxy self pres.

But Porscha barely did this.

[Jackofhearts2005]

And the more I think about it (without yet reading Wilgy's explanation), the more I hate the insistence off a wolf in Scotty/Pyxxy. Weak though it may be, the Porscha point I just replied about might be valid. I can see the reason for scumreading Pyxxy. And I can see why you antialign Scotty/Pyxxy. But why always a wolf there? I don't think that's the case. Let's find out.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@DrWilgy @Roxy Can I hear you two's detailed thoughts on reads/solve/gamestate

I don't really know where your heads are at and id like to get a clearer read on you

There hasn't been much evolution. Falcon was a sleepwalk misyeet I think. Feel that Falcon should've been somewhat threadspewed.

There's one in Pyxxy/Scotty, probably just Pyxxy

There's one in Camilla/Roxy/Jack and that should be solved after we resolve the d1 tomfoolery.

Talk to me about "one in Pyxxy/Scotty." I get the Pyxxy case. I get that Scotty is somewhat antialigned with Pyxxy (and Falcon before he died). I get that there was a post or two from Scotty that were bad and Tutuu really suspected him.

Is that the whole thing? Is there more to it than that?

Cause Pyxxy/Scotty -> if necessary Scotty/Pyxxy is a super convenient yeet for me if there really is a wolf there. We get a second wolf. We have two wolves dead and lots of important eod and interactives to find the last wolf. I think we can win no matter who the third wolf is in that scenario.

But if there are zero wolves in Pyxxy and Scotty? We lose if we misyeet both.

If you're sure there's a wolf there, convince me there's for sure a wolf there.

So, like I'm pretty sure after the Falcon misyeet, we don't have the wiggle room to yeet Scotty. Scotty has had a very townie voice all game and I only reconsider that in a T Pyxxy world.

Re the dif check between them, it's because the Pyxxy CW to a wolf yeet was very real. I think it's hard for me to think that there weren't more wolves involved in the CW than just Porscha, especially due to Rondo voting off wagon was just town.

Further, d1 players that are still around
On CW or target of CW Scotty/Pyxxy
Off wagon Camilla/Prince
Potential bus Alison/Roxy

I do not feel comfortable assessing the off wagon nulls until we get another pelt Unless it's just you/Camilla, especially after being wrong on Rondo. I don't think Roxy or Alison are wolves.

Effectively my PoE is Pyxxy, you, Camilla.

"Actually nm Scotty is town."

Not the best, ya'll.

[Roxy]

I would like to sort Prince J aka Jack.

And go from there. Probs to Camilla.

Yep I am believing they are it.

So sort me. Who is “they” and why are “they” “it?”

"they" and "it" are generic pronouns I use in games of mafia for kindness as I can't always remember which pronouns some people prefer.

[Roxy]

Forgot vote count isn’t necessarily in order. I don’t even see where Porscha voted in her iso.

Based on this, I’m rejecting Camilla’s assertion that Pyxxy is never the wolf PR. Which is kinda funny because Camilla also insists that if Pyxxy flips vanilla wolf, I must be the wolf PR wowee.

If Pyxxy is the wolf PR somehow and Porscha decided to park her vote on a PR then I'd probably go to Wilgy and give Roxy a second look, tbh.

Would basically mean that the d1 Porscha cred was worthless and in fact voting off the d1 wolf elim would've actually been wolf-AI.

easy to point fingers for D 1 since you were not around and did not vote

[Jackofhearts2005]

That is, I was asking Wilgy to explain what I took as an irrational read on there being a wolf in Scotty/Pyxxy. I was concerned that I was either failing to understand town Wilgy or that scum Wilgy was putting forth a fake read and I wanted Wilgy to explain his read so that I could see if I was missing something or that Wilgy was or wasn't being opportunistic.

But the w!Scotty part of the read is just "Scotty voted for Pyxxy over Porscha D1" which isn't that convincing when you consider (as Wilgy does) that Scotty has acted very townie all game. So it's easy for me to read Wilgy's read on Pyxxy/Scotty being a difference check as a scum motivated read on two townies. It doesn't hurt w!Wilgy to call Scotty town atp because he's only ever getting a misyeet on one of those players anyway. His post makes complete sense in a Porscha/Wilgy/Camilla world.

In a town Wilgy world? I'm unsatisfied with the reasoning on Pyxxy/Scotty, particularly the reasoning on Scotty.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I would like to sort Prince J aka Jack.

And go from there. Probs to Camilla.

Yep I am believing they are it.

So sort me. Who is “they” and why are “they” “it?”

"they" and "it" are generic pronouns I use in games of mafia for kindness as I can't always remember which pronouns some people prefer.

Sorry. I was asking if you were saying "Jack or Camilla is probably mafia" or "Jack AND Camilla are probably mafia."

Also, so glad you're back. Let's fucking win this thing.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Strongly feeling Wilgy/Camilla atp. Gonna reread first Wilgy and then Camilla, esp wrt flipped players but the play today for the Scotties in the crowd that really want me to vote is an eventual vote on Wilgy unless I find something that explodes this worldview.

[Jackofhearts2005]

For entertainment purposes, watch the comfort level of Wilgy/Camilla/Jack as that becomes the plan. Cause if that contains all wolves, and I think it does, two of those players know they're about to lose and one thinks he's about to win.

[Scotty]

Yeah I think flipping Wilgy will yield more info than falcon did.

If we flip Wilgy and he is town (which I’m not currently believing will happen), preemptively putting out there that the tides were distinctly changed by Alison/Camilla. There is no world in which they are both good to lead that miselim.

If Wilgy is bad, we can basically clear Alison, because bas Alison will have gunned for both of her partners unprompted in separate occasions and I don’t think wolf Alison would think that would logically result in a win for her, DESPITE where she has said she loves to hellbus.

[Camilla]

Y'know what?

I'm pretty much settled on the Jack/Wilgy world atp.

Jack's basically spending much of his time trying to tie me to Wilgy without giving much attention to the possibility that Pyxxy is a wolf or little paranoia outside of this PoE in a fairly transparent attempt that he knows that once Wilgy flips that the main mountain separating the wolves from winning is that I'll basically go the full Amrock to elim him.

This is basically textbook endgame wolf play to seal the game.

[Scotty]

For entertainment purposes, watch the comfort level of Wilgy/Camilla/Jack as that becomes the plan. Cause if that contains all wolves, and I think it does, two of those players know they're about to lose and one thinks he's about to win.

Well, as we’ve seen, nothing is set in stone.

In some ways, non-hammer games give ample opportunity for mafia to squirm out of my hand like that pickle that broke out of jail onto the floor last night (always use a fork, folks, not your hands to grab pickles)

[Jackofhearts2005]

Y'know what?

I'm pretty much settled on the Jack/Wilgy world atp.

Jack's basically spending much of his time trying to tie me to Wilgy without giving much attention to the possibility that Pyxxy is a wolf or little paranoia outside of this PoE in a fairly transparent attempt that he knows that once Wilgy flips that the main mountain separating the wolves from winning is that I'll basically go the full Amrock to elim him.

This is basically textbook endgame wolf play to seal the game.

Fantastic. Lettuce play chicken.

[Scotty]

Y'know what?

I'm pretty much settled on the Jack/Wilgy world atp.

Jack's basically spending much of his time trying to tie me to Wilgy without giving much attention to the possibility that Pyxxy is a wolf or little paranoia outside of this PoE in a fairly transparent attempt that he knows that once Wilgy flips that the main mountain separating the wolves from winning is that I'll basically go the full Amrock to elim him.

This is basically textbook endgame wolf play to seal the game.

It makes sense too- this perspective. Because Jack wasn’t exactly gunning for Wilgy, and once the tides had changed to that as the possible yeet, he’s keeping options open.

But a wrinkle- he has just reasoned out that the team is just Wilgy/you. Not a lot of wiggle room. What happens when we yeet w!Wilgy and then t!you?
(Ignoring doc atm) After Wilgy, it’ll be 4v1. Miselim on you leads to f3. How does jack win in that scenario?

[Camilla]

Much of Jack's recent posts are pretty much this (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost3350537) being that it's just basically a dissertation to dunk on a villager rather than trying to find an airtight solve to the case being that he's basically given very little attention to Wilgy/Pyxxy when compared to me and his endgoal is basically persuasion rather than fact-finding.

I had doubts on this solve earlier on but after this, yh.

[Scotty]

Difference check on Camilla/jack.

Got it

[Jackofhearts2005]

@DrWilgy @Roxy Can I hear you two's detailed thoughts on reads/solve/gamestate

I don't really know where your heads are at and id like to get a clearer read on you

There hasn't been much evolution. Falcon was a sleepwalk misyeet I think. Feel that Falcon should've been somewhat threadspewed.

There's one in Pyxxy/Scotty, probably just Pyxxy

There's one in Camilla/Roxy/Jack and that should be solved after we resolve the d1 tomfoolery.

Talk to me about "one in Pyxxy/Scotty." I get the Pyxxy case. I get that Scotty is somewhat antialigned with Pyxxy (and Falcon before he died). I get that there was a post or two from Scotty that were bad and Tutuu really suspected him.

Is that the whole thing? Is there more to it than that?

Cause Pyxxy/Scotty -> if necessary Scotty/Pyxxy is a super convenient yeet for me if there really is a wolf there. We get a second wolf. We have two wolves dead and lots of important eod and interactives to find the last wolf. I think we can win no matter who the third wolf is in that scenario.

But if there are zero wolves in Pyxxy and Scotty? We lose if we misyeet both.

If you're sure there's a wolf there, convince me there's for sure a wolf there.

So, like I'm pretty sure after the Falcon misyeet, we don't have the wiggle room to yeet Scotty. Scotty has had a very townie voice all game and I only reconsider that in a T Pyxxy world.

Re the dif check between them, it's because the Pyxxy CW to a wolf yeet was very real. I think it's hard for me to think that there weren't more wolves involved in the CW than just Porscha, especially due to Rondo voting off wagon was just town.

Further, d1 players that are still around
On CW or target of CW Scotty/Pyxxy
Off wagon Camilla/Prince
Potential bus Alison/Roxy

I do not feel comfortable assessing the off wagon nulls until we get another pelt Unless it's just you/Camilla, especially after being wrong on Rondo. I don't think Roxy or Alison are wolves.

Effectively my PoE is Pyxxy, you, Camilla.

Wilgy's interaction with Porscha is that he throws down a naked fourth vote on her and dips. Jokingly calls the vote scummy. Does not provide reasoning beforehand. It tells us very little about Wilgy's alignment tbh.

Wilgy's interaction with Pyxxy is overwhelmingly negative. He basically stakes the game on trying to get Pyxxy eliminated. Wilgy and Pyxxy are not packmates.

Wilgy's interactions with Camilla hardly exist. The first negative thing he says about her is in the above post, putting her in the final 3 player POE. Level 1 distancing. Forgot to read or address his partner all game.

It's Wilgy/Camilla.

Somebody else can do Wilgy/Prince Jack. It's different from Wilgy/Camilla but I don't feel the need to evaluate Wilgy's interactions with my slot wrt looking for partnering because I know we aren't partners. @Scotty and @Alison should, though.

[Camilla]

Y'know what?

I'm pretty much settled on the Jack/Wilgy world atp.

Jack's basically spending much of his time trying to tie me to Wilgy without giving much attention to the possibility that Pyxxy is a wolf or little paranoia outside of this PoE in a fairly transparent attempt that he knows that once Wilgy flips that the main mountain separating the wolves from winning is that I'll basically go the full Amrock to elim him.

This is basically textbook endgame wolf play to seal the game.

It makes sense too- this perspective. Because Jack wasn’t exactly gunning for Wilgy, and once the tides had changed to that as the possible yeet, he’s keeping options open.

But a wrinkle- he has just reasoned out that the team is just Wilgy/you. Not a lot of wiggle room. What happens when we yeet w!Wilgy and then t!you?
(Ignoring doc atm) After Wilgy, it’ll be 4v1. Miselim on you leads to f3. How does jack win in that scenario?

Because in a Pyxxy/Jack/You or Roxy endgame it's basically extremely easy for a wolf with WiM, which is basically the archetype that Jack is, to shift the elim on Pyxxy.

The guy nearly got chopped d1 and he's kind of been in the PoE and would've died if it was for Alison shielding him. Once Alison's dead he's basically easy pickings.

[Camilla]

@DrWilgy @Roxy Can I hear you two's detailed thoughts on reads/solve/gamestate

I don't really know where your heads are at and id like to get a clearer read on you

There hasn't been much evolution. Falcon was a sleepwalk misyeet I think. Feel that Falcon should've been somewhat threadspewed.

There's one in Pyxxy/Scotty, probably just Pyxxy

There's one in Camilla/Roxy/Jack and that should be solved after we resolve the d1 tomfoolery.

Talk to me about "one in Pyxxy/Scotty." I get the Pyxxy case. I get that Scotty is somewhat antialigned with Pyxxy (and Falcon before he died). I get that there was a post or two from Scotty that were bad and Tutuu really suspected him.

Is that the whole thing? Is there more to it than that?

Cause Pyxxy/Scotty -> if necessary Scotty/Pyxxy is a super convenient yeet for me if there really is a wolf there. We get a second wolf. We have two wolves dead and lots of important eod and interactives to find the last wolf. I think we can win no matter who the third wolf is in that scenario.

But if there are zero wolves in Pyxxy and Scotty? We lose if we misyeet both.

If you're sure there's a wolf there, convince me there's for sure a wolf there.

So, like I'm pretty sure after the Falcon misyeet, we don't have the wiggle room to yeet Scotty. Scotty has had a very townie voice all game and I only reconsider that in a T Pyxxy world.

Re the dif check between them, it's because the Pyxxy CW to a wolf yeet was very real. I think it's hard for me to think that there weren't more wolves involved in the CW than just Porscha, especially due to Rondo voting off wagon was just town.

Further, d1 players that are still around
On CW or target of CW Scotty/Pyxxy
Off wagon Camilla/Prince
Potential bus Alison/Roxy

I do not feel comfortable assessing the off wagon nulls until we get another pelt Unless it's just you/Camilla, especially after being wrong on Rondo. I don't think Roxy or Alison are wolves.

Effectively my PoE is Pyxxy, you, Camilla.

Wilgy's interaction with Porscha is that he throws down a naked fourth vote on her and dips. Jokingly calls the vote scummy. Does not provide reasoning beforehand. It tells us very little about Wilgy's alignment tbh.

Wilgy's interaction with Pyxxy is overwhelmingly negative. He basically stakes the game on trying to get Pyxxy eliminated. Wilgy and Pyxxy are not packmates.

Wilgy's interactions with Camilla hardly exist. The first negative thing he says about her is in the above post, putting her in the final 3 player POE. Level 1 distancing. Forgot to read or address his partner all game.

It's Wilgy/Camilla.

Somebody else can do Wilgy/Prince Jack. It's different from Wilgy/Camilla but I don't feel the need to evaluate Wilgy's interactions with my slot wrt looking for partnering because I know we aren't partners. @Scotty and @Alison should, though.

Wilgy basically had very little interactions with most of the players here aside from Pyxxy, but at least I'm voting him.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Y'know what?

I'm pretty much settled on the Jack/Wilgy world atp.

Jack's basically spending much of his time trying to tie me to Wilgy without giving much attention to the possibility that Pyxxy is a wolf or little paranoia outside of this PoE in a fairly transparent attempt that he knows that once Wilgy flips that the main mountain separating the wolves from winning is that I'll basically go the full Amrock to elim him.

This is basically textbook endgame wolf play to seal the game.

It makes sense too- this perspective. Because Jack wasn’t exactly gunning for Wilgy, and once the tides had changed to that as the possible yeet, he’s keeping options open.

But a wrinkle- he has just reasoned out that the team is just Wilgy/you. Not a lot of wiggle room. What happens when we yeet w!Wilgy and then t!you?
(Ignoring doc atm) After Wilgy, it’ll be 4v1. Miselim on you leads to f3. How does jack win in that scenario?

You can even take me first tomorrow as long as Camilla goes the day after. It's Wilgy/Camilla. It's always Wilgy/Camilla. She's looking so desperate and dishonest it's crazy. Take for instance that in all her accusations of me leaving my options open and your concern that I'm doing the same, I came to my surefire 3 player POE and 2 player POE before Camilla came to hers and hers is 100% in response to mine, attempting to call my bluff. But I'm not bluffing.

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

[Jackofhearts2005]

@DrWilgy @Roxy Can I hear you two's detailed thoughts on reads/solve/gamestate

I don't really know where your heads are at and id like to get a clearer read on you

There hasn't been much evolution. Falcon was a sleepwalk misyeet I think. Feel that Falcon should've been somewhat threadspewed.

There's one in Pyxxy/Scotty, probably just Pyxxy

There's one in Camilla/Roxy/Jack and that should be solved after we resolve the d1 tomfoolery.

Talk to me about "one in Pyxxy/Scotty." I get the Pyxxy case. I get that Scotty is somewhat antialigned with Pyxxy (and Falcon before he died). I get that there was a post or two from Scotty that were bad and Tutuu really suspected him.

Is that the whole thing? Is there more to it than that?

Cause Pyxxy/Scotty -> if necessary Scotty/Pyxxy is a super convenient yeet for me if there really is a wolf there. We get a second wolf. We have two wolves dead and lots of important eod and interactives to find the last wolf. I think we can win no matter who the third wolf is in that scenario.

But if there are zero wolves in Pyxxy and Scotty? We lose if we misyeet both.

If you're sure there's a wolf there, convince me there's for sure a wolf there.

So, like I'm pretty sure after the Falcon misyeet, we don't have the wiggle room to yeet Scotty. Scotty has had a very townie voice all game and I only reconsider that in a T Pyxxy world.

Re the dif check between them, it's because the Pyxxy CW to a wolf yeet was very real. I think it's hard for me to think that there weren't more wolves involved in the CW than just Porscha, especially due to Rondo voting off wagon was just town.

Further, d1 players that are still around
On CW or target of CW Scotty/Pyxxy
Off wagon Camilla/Prince
Potential bus Alison/Roxy

I do not feel comfortable assessing the off wagon nulls until we get another pelt Unless it's just you/Camilla, especially after being wrong on Rondo. I don't think Roxy or Alison are wolves.

Effectively my PoE is Pyxxy, you, Camilla.

Wilgy's interaction with Porscha is that he throws down a naked fourth vote on her and dips. Jokingly calls the vote scummy. Does not provide reasoning beforehand. It tells us very little about Wilgy's alignment tbh.

Wilgy's interaction with Pyxxy is overwhelmingly negative. He basically stakes the game on trying to get Pyxxy eliminated. Wilgy and Pyxxy are not packmates.

Wilgy's interactions with Camilla hardly exist. The first negative thing he says about her is in the above post, putting her in the final 3 player POE. Level 1 distancing. Forgot to read or address his partner all game.

It's Wilgy/Camilla.

Somebody else can do Wilgy/Prince Jack. It's different from Wilgy/Camilla but I don't feel the need to evaluate Wilgy's interactions with my slot wrt looking for partnering because I know we aren't partners. @Scotty and @Alison should, though.

Wilgy basically had very little interactions with most of the players here aside from Pyxxy, but at least I'm voting him.

Git rekt

[Jackofhearts2005]

Seriously, Wilgy's interactions with Pyxxy and Camilla are night and day (with his interactions with me being in the middle).

Camilla handwaves it without looking at it.

Her takes are motivated by where she wants yeets to go, not by evidence.

[Camilla]

Seriously, Wilgy's interactions with Pyxxy and Camilla are night and day (with his interactions with me being in the middle).

Camilla handwaves it without looking at it.

Her takes are motivated by where she wants yeets to go, not by evidence.

What?

I don't think Pyxxy's wolfing with Wilgy.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Y'know what?

I'm pretty much settled on the Jack/Wilgy world atp.

Jack's basically spending much of his time trying to tie me to Wilgy without giving much attention to the possibility that Pyxxy is a wolf or little paranoia outside of this PoE in a fairly transparent attempt that he knows that once Wilgy flips that the main mountain separating the wolves from winning is that I'll basically go the full Amrock to elim him.

This is basically textbook endgame wolf play to seal the game.

It makes sense too- this perspective. Because Jack wasn’t exactly gunning for Wilgy, and once the tides had changed to that as the possible yeet, he’s keeping options open.

But a wrinkle- he has just reasoned out that the team is just Wilgy/you. Not a lot of wiggle room. What happens when we yeet w!Wilgy and then t!you?
(Ignoring doc atm) After Wilgy, it’ll be 4v1. Miselim on you leads to f3. How does jack win in that scenario?

Because in a Pyxxy/Jack/You or Roxy endgame it's basically extremely easy for a wolf with WiM, which is basically the archetype that Jack is, to shift the elim on Pyxxy.

The guy nearly got chopped d1 and he's kind of been in the PoE and would've died if it was for Alison shielding him. Once Alison's dead he's basically easy pickings.

This is nonsense.

If it's Wilgy/Jack, I'm laying out the argument that Pyxxy and Wilgy are never wolves together.

I bus Wilgy here. Shoot Alison. Then it's Roxy/Camilla/Scotty/Pyxxy vs Jack and I have to misyeet 2 of them. And I'm arguing that Roxy is always town, Scotty is always town and if Wilgy flips wolf (which he's about to), Pyxxy is always town. Roxy earlier today declared her intention to look at/vote for me or Camilla. Scotty earlier voted for me. Pyxxy earlier voted for me iirc.

You're proposing that my master plan is to bus Wilgy, misyeet you, then go into final 3 with two players who suspect me that I have as lock town.

Fucking hell. I'm a good wolf but I ain't that good. I'd lose that every single time.

Total nonsense. You don't think this is what's happening. You're saying things that would be convenient for w!Camilla for townies to believe, not things that t!Camilla would actually believe.

[Scotty]

At this point, while I appreciate the thunderdome, I’m still nervous about Wilgy.

But with both of you basically crossing off Wilgy on your grocery list and waiting at the checkout counter, Wilgy’s scum equity is almost guaranteed or else town is completely off their rocker

[Jackofhearts2005]

Seriously, Wilgy's interactions with Pyxxy and Camilla are night and day (with his interactions with me being in the middle).

Camilla handwaves it without looking at it.

Her takes are motivated by where she wants yeets to go, not by evidence.

What?

I don't think Pyxxy's wolfing with Wilgy.

I didn't say you did. I said you're handwaving MY analysis that Wilgy didn't really push or interact with you or Porscha but interacted a lot with Pyxxy by saying "Wilgy didn't really interact with anybody tbf" which is flat not true.

[Scotty]

Really curious as to who mafia chooses to shoot tonite.

Some tough decisions

[Jackofhearts2005]

Really curious as to who mafia chooses to shoot tonite.

Some tough decisions

Go look at Wilgy's iso. It's 25 posts.

[Camilla]

At this point, while I appreciate the thunderdome, I’m still nervous about Wilgy.

But with both of you basically crossing off Wilgy on your grocery list and waiting at the checkout counter, Wilgy’s scum equity is almost guaranteed or else town is completely off their rocker

If Wilgy's a villager then the game-state's completely fucked up.

The wolves in this case would be Jack plus one of you or Pyxxy but your paranoia has felt villagery and Pyxxy has had some good spots despite gimmicking, and Pyxxy has had some non-W/Wish interactions with Jack.

It can technically be but with how Jack's playing this endgame I feel like it's just him and Wilgy.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I got the shoes of a townie.

[Roxy]

@Roxy halp

nah I like what you are doing I'm am just watching while eating my blt minus the l bc I don't want any vegee's today.

[Roxy]

Why can’t ya’ll just only vote for wolves like me?

You also voted for Falcon.

I just don't see the point here being that everyone except Alison/Wigly/Roxy here has not voted a flipped wolf by the EoD, and I have both Alison/Roxy as my strongest V-reads.

I believe he is pushing my D 1 wondering why no one reads my posts where as I am just used to being ignored lol

[Roxy]

Maybe if we all say Prince J three times while holding a candle and looking into a bathroom mirror in the dark, he’ll come out to play

Prince J

Prince J

Prince J

Unleash your secret killer move !

Just an FYi: When I read your posts the voice in my head is that of Macho Man Randy Savage

[Jackofhearts2005]

That is a hell of a compliment, Roxy.

[Camilla]

Really curious as to who mafia chooses to shoot tonite.

Some tough decisions

Depends on if Wilgy's the RBer and if they found the doc or not. If they can stop the doc then it's most likely Alison being that she's basically the player who has had the strongest finger on the pulse on the game-state.

Like, I don't get why I'm being tinfoiled despite that the past two nightkills both had me as a very strong townread and that Zenon and I have a lot of mutual experience with each other.

[Roxy]

Jack/Scotty fits in better as teammates with Wilgy than Pyxxy. I don't think Pyxxy/Wilgy would spend the entire game trying to hellbus each other like this, tbh.

Most likely Jack as I liked Scotty's paranoia on me while Jack's push on me kind of just feels like he's piggy-backing on Roxy's paranoia than actually doing anything to move the game-state forward.

Lul

Classic wolf Jack tactic. Sheep paranoia of low end poster from two days ago.

Moving to a three player poe is moving the gamestate forward. You just don’t like where I’m moving it.

What about Alison/Scotty/Roxy?

There's been very little suspicion on me and you only started turning on me the moment the latter two started to do so.

Suspicion on them, as I meant the three ones. Why me over Scotty/Alison since we've basically been roughly in the same tier until Roxy/Scotty began tinfoiling me.

but I have had you as a tinfoil since D 1 it's just that no one looks at my posts until today. So it did -not- just begin --- it began 2 days (mafia days) ago.

[Camilla]

Jack/Scotty fits in better as teammates with Wilgy than Pyxxy. I don't think Pyxxy/Wilgy would spend the entire game trying to hellbus each other like this, tbh.

Most likely Jack as I liked Scotty's paranoia on me while Jack's push on me kind of just feels like he's piggy-backing on Roxy's paranoia than actually doing anything to move the game-state forward.

Lul

Classic wolf Jack tactic. Sheep paranoia of low end poster from two days ago.

Moving to a three player poe is moving the gamestate forward. You just don’t like where I’m moving it.

What about Alison/Scotty/Roxy?

There's been very little suspicion on me and you only started turning on me the moment the latter two started to do so.

Suspicion on them, as I meant the three ones. Why me over Scotty/Alison since we've basically been roughly in the same tier until Roxy/Scotty began tinfoiling me.

but I have had you as a tinfoil since D 1 it's just that no one looks at my posts until today. So it did -not- just begin --- it began 2 days (mafia days) ago.

I mean, you've consistently had tinfoil on me. Thing is this sudden shift on Wilgy/Jack's PoV on me basically coincided with how Zenon/Tutu died who were the people that were TR'ing me the strongest and Scotty started tinfoiling me.

Like, Wilgy/Jack barely mentioned me at all and I only became PoE when it became convenient as my defenders died.

I don't get how you/Scotty aren't exactly seeing how opportunistic both of these two's suspicion on me have been as none of those two voice these suspicions until today and it was basically just tunneling more LHF-y acceptable people like Falcon or Pyxxy.

[Roxy]

My favorite part about reading back the last few pages is how in depth jack has been and bringing a bunch of original thoughts to the table

And still not voting

holy shit I agree 100% with this post