Muppet Babies - Game Over - Town Wins

[sig]

Bottom line? So many mafia make this mistake D1 of trying to vote me off for weak reasoning. Half the time they get caught and half the time I get mislynched.

Sabi trying it in GoC is the most recently example.

That’s what Kates trying to do here.

You... were hostile 3P in GoC though.

Not mafia though so the misvote attempt still applies

This logic does not compute.

Yes it 100% does

The reasoning for her attempt was based off a “slip” this slip didn’t exist


She used it as a reaosn to vote me and I wasn’t mafia. Ergo we’ve seen multiple times of mafia using a fake slip as a reason to vote

Will you make up your mind about what my read is based on? It's a totality if circumstances. Stop trying to pick at it piecemeal. It doesn't work that way.

Will you?

Since every time you’re pressured by me you seem to have a. Different reason

[sig]

You also haven’t formed a coherent case or given any other reasons.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I also super don't understand what the three of you are taking issue with sig on the gut read progression thing?

Are you trying to make out that being a hypocrite is wolfy? It's not. Being a hypocrite is towny because you have confbias in your alignment so don't view yourself as capable of being wolfy so can suspect others for things you're doing. Wolves are less hypocritical in that way.

My problem is I thought Sig/Kate was a diff check and I thought Sig was wolfier overall but now I'm kinda thinking it's just T v T which is fucking with my world view cause Kates general progression is towny itself I think.

[DrWilgy]

I'll caveat that with so many slankers I could be wrong easily but I started off thinking that the part where Neon was townreading me and you accused me of Omgus was a weird projection of what she was doing to me. So I decided to townlock her to see if she'd do the expected from a position of feeling confident she had me pocketed ie. shield you and not sheep me. Which she did do. She voted you briefly and got her vote off you asap onto my townread. I got no real doubt Neon is mafia here.

Wilgy is sus outside of this but he agreed with my fake townread on Neon in a very scummy way.

You're actually the one of the 3 reads I'm less confident on but only because twtbw.

See I'll murder Sig.

But the thing is that won't clear me either will it because lol Neon busses.

I'm not shielding sig just because I disagree with your Dennis read.

This reads like she knows sigs flip already

Hmm... This is a good observation.

Jfc...

Can you explain why it's a bad read?

Can you actually explain how it "feels like I know Sigs alignment"

Because I don't see how. And I am town so I don't know Sigs alignment so it's a bad read

Preemptively deducting results I think is a good indicator of TMI personally.

Again, I didn't think you were wolf based on tone, but the read of preemptively flipping Sig and the results of such is kinda sketchy.

I still very likely just stay on Sig here tbh.

[MacDougall]

That progression between sig and wilgy is in bad faith on Wilgy's part too.

I think Wilgy is my top scumread here tbh.

I agree from a progression stand point. He was a gut town read, but his lack of interaction with me was iffy

I fail to understand how you can be confbiased Kate is mafia and not Wilgy given how they've treated you practically the same while Kate has been a more productive player generally. Why are you townreading Wilgy at all?

[DrWilgy]

I'm going to be kinda frustrated if the team turns out to be SVS and SixStrings or something. Are this point the POE is too wide because a lot of players haven't tried to make themselves readable at all.

This is a vibe

[Kate]

Question is whether it really matters.

Can you two get on the same page about a c/w to your wagons? Doesn't seem like you guys agree about anyone in particular both having individual pet scum reads.

Probably not

Let's play a game of would I vote this player

The Players

Dennis - yes
Dr Wigly - yes
falcon45ca - yes
Kate - no
MacDougall - no
Matahari - no
Neon- no
sig - maybe
SixStrings - yes
Spacedaisy - no
S~V~S - not today cause that feels dirty

Svs is civ. I wouldn't vote sixstrings either.

[MacDougall]

I also super don't understand what the three of you are taking issue with sig on the gut read progression thing?

Are you trying to make out that being a hypocrite is wolfy? It's not. Being a hypocrite is towny because you have confbias in your alignment so don't view yourself as capable of being wolfy so can suspect others for things you're doing. Wolves are less hypocritical in that way.

My problem is I thought Sig/Kate was a diff check and I thought Sig was wolfier overall but now I'm kinda thinking it's just T v T which is fucking with my world view cause Kates general progression is towny itself I think.

What about Kate's progression is towny?

[sig]

That progression between sig and wilgy is in bad faith on Wilgy's part too.

I think Wilgy is my top scumread here tbh.

I agree from a progression stand point. He was a gut town read, but his lack of interaction with me was iffy

I fail to understand how you can be confbiased Kate is mafia and not Wilgy given how they've treated you practically the same while Kate has been a more productive player generally. Why are you townreading Wilgy at all?

I found his initial posts with Falcon to be towny. Since then he hasn’t done much townness which is why I’d move there now.


Do you still think Kate is town?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Mac why did your read on me change even though general thread consensus was flowing towards me over the last page or 2?

Your posts started to get desperate and emotive. Moreover rather than simply trying to survive via burying sig you kept trying to push Dennis which is more likely to indicate you have a genuine read on him given pushing him doesn't help you survive this close to eod.

Thanks for reevaluating... sorry I said you didn't care what I was saying in thread

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

[Kate]

I'm going to be kinda frustrated if the team turns out to be SVS and SixStrings or something. Are this point the POE is too wide because a lot of players haven't tried to make themselves readable at all.

99% sure it's not those two.

[sig]

Question is whether it really matters.

Can you two get on the same page about a c/w to your wagons? Doesn't seem like you guys agree about anyone in particular both having individual pet scum reads.

Probably not

Let's play a game of would I vote this player

The Players

Dennis - yes
Dr Wigly - yes
falcon45ca - yes
Kate - no
MacDougall - no
Matahari - no
Neon- no
sig - maybe
SixStrings - yes
Spacedaisy - no
S~V~S - not today cause that feels dirty

Svs is civ. I wouldn't vote sixstrings either.

Agreed on six string first phase and his first game wouldn’t go there until we hit rock bottom.


SVS is I’m iffy but rea life is giving her a pass for me today

[sig]

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

I’ll follow this

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

See I'll murder Sig.

But the thing is that won't clear me either will it because lol Neon busses.

I'm not shielding sig just because I disagree with your Dennis read.

This reads like she knows sigs flip already

Hmm... This is a good observation.

Jfc...

Can you explain why it's a bad read?

Can you actually explain how it "feels like I know Sigs alignment"

Because I don't see how. And I am town so I don't know Sigs alignment so it's a bad read

Preemptively deducting results I think is a good indicator of TMI personally.

Again, I didn't think you were wolf based on tone, but the read of preemptively flipping Sig and the results of such is kinda sketchy.

I still very likely just stay on Sig here tbh.

I'm preemptively flipping sig scum cause I thought he was scum and I used that preemptive flip to do nothing so exactly what am I TMIing?

My fucking partner?

Come on Wilgy.

[DrWilgy]

That progression between sig and wilgy is in bad faith on Wilgy's part too.

I think Wilgy is my top scumread here tbh.

How so? Sig hasn't done anything that I'd say is "critical town behavior", Sigs read on Falcon and I felt far more than a gut read but even explaining it as such without me promoting it would've been town minded.

By all means it could be SVS or SixStrings as well, but SIG provides the most data, is likely wolf, they belong on top of PoE.

Do you disagree with any of this?

[sig]

Neon isn’t a strong mafia read for me she’s firmly null but I think the reentry looks strong.

If we consider a world where Kate is town and we’ve been wasting a thread arguing then the POE is way out of whack for me.

[MacDougall]

My issue with just voting out sig here is that I feel that he's exhibited a townie sense of entitlement and also I see no evidence of a partner trying to save him. Because nobody is really actively pushing Neon. Sig's only viable partner would be SixStrings I think. Even Dennis would be a bit more assertive in pushing Neon to save him especially given how Neon has interacted with him.

The inverse read is easier to make because Kate and Wilgy both profile as actively ignorant of sig being townie while pushing him which means either can be with Neon.

Albeit Neon is also being townie.

Which if both are town kind of points at slank/slank.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Question is whether it really matters.

Can you two get on the same page about a c/w to your wagons? Doesn't seem like you guys agree about anyone in particular both having individual pet scum reads.

Probably not

Let's play a game of would I vote this player

The Players

Dennis - yes
Dr Wigly - yes
falcon45ca - yes
Kate - no
MacDougall - no
Matahari - no
Neon- no
sig - maybe
SixStrings - yes
Spacedaisy - no
S~V~S - not today cause that feels dirty

Svs is civ. I wouldn't vote sixstrings either.

I disagree. On both counts.

One thing to note about me is I don't do null reads. If I can't find a reason to TR someone I will always SR them.

Null read suck.

SVS is basically stuck in that area of I don't see a reason to TR them yet but also like life is in the way of mafia and I'm not gonna vote there

Six has done nothing. Which I get to a point but I can't just ignore.

[Kate]

Bottom line? So many mafia make this mistake D1 of trying to vote me off for weak reasoning. Half the time they get caught and half the time I get mislynched.

Sabi trying it in GoC is the most recently example.

That’s what Kates trying to do here.

You... were hostile 3P in GoC though.

Not mafia though so the misvote attempt still applies

This logic does not compute.

Yes it 100% does

The reasoning for her attempt was based off a “slip” this slip didn’t exist


She used it as a reaosn to vote me and I wasn’t mafia. Ergo we’ve seen multiple times of mafia using a fake slip as a reason to vote

Will you make up your mind about what my read is based on? It's a totality if circumstances. Stop trying to pick at it piecemeal. It doesn't work that way.

Will you?

Since every time you’re pressured by me you seem to have a. Different reason

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but I don't feel pressured by you at all.

[MacDougall]

That progression between sig and wilgy is in bad faith on Wilgy's part too.

I think Wilgy is my top scumread here tbh.

I agree from a progression stand point. He was a gut town read, but his lack of interaction with me was iffy

I fail to understand how you can be confbiased Kate is mafia and not Wilgy given how they've treated you practically the same while Kate has been a more productive player generally. Why are you townreading Wilgy at all?

I found his initial posts with Falcon to be towny. Since then he hasn’t done much townness which is why I’d move there now.


Do you still think Kate is town?

Not really tbh. Especially not if you are.

[DrWilgy]

This reads like she knows sigs flip already

Hmm... This is a good observation.

Jfc...

Can you explain why it's a bad read?

Can you actually explain how it "feels like I know Sigs alignment"

Because I don't see how. And I am town so I don't know Sigs alignment so it's a bad read

Preemptively deducting results I think is a good indicator of TMI personally.

Again, I didn't think you were wolf based on tone, but the read of preemptively flipping Sig and the results of such is kinda sketchy.

I still very likely just stay on Sig here tbh.

I'm preemptively flipping sig scum cause I thought he was scum and I used that preemptive flip to do nothing so exactly what am I TMIing?

My fucking partner?

Come on Wilgy.

Yeah it feels like that.

W Neon in this situation where you are bussing would be able to know the observers of the above post are town and thus make this post for town to interpret and hopefully change the progression of what they presented.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I also super don't understand what the three of you are taking issue with sig on the gut read progression thing?

Are you trying to make out that being a hypocrite is wolfy? It's not. Being a hypocrite is towny because you have confbias in your alignment so don't view yourself as capable of being wolfy so can suspect others for things you're doing. Wolves are less hypocritical in that way.

My problem is I thought Sig/Kate was a diff check and I thought Sig was wolfier overall but now I'm kinda thinking it's just T v T which is fucking with my world view cause Kates general progression is towny itself I think.

What about Kate's progression is towny?

I think the way they've clearly conf biased their gut read and refuse to look outside it is something townies do more than scum. No?

[MacDougall]

I genuinely have no idea how Kate can have a townread on SixStrings without TMI.

[S~V~S]

@sig got any reads that don't involve me?

Yes sir

Wilgy, Falcon, you, are solid town. The first two for tone and how their banter came across. Now you might say sig didjt you just say fluff is NAI? Well yes I did but whatever.

Neon and SVS are light town reads. SVS responded well to the push and Neon is posting as she normally does.

Kate is my leading mafia read right now. I think she very opportunistically jumped on my wagon and she always pokes/votes me when I’m mafia.


I’d also bet 100% the other mafia member is a low poster but not in the screenshot she sent over.


You’re welcome I solved the game.

Yeet.

When she’s mafia is obviously what I mean. I blame phone postinh

@S~V~S

Thanks sig. I could see why she thought that. I would have thought that too.

I could also see your explanation, I also get flak for semantics. But the fact that your go to has been, “She’s bad”, hasn’t helped you.

Your reaction to her suspicion, whether valid or not, looks off to me.

My only experience with bad Neon is Holes, and I don’t think she looks anything like that here. Zero.

[MacDougall]

I also super don't understand what the three of you are taking issue with sig on the gut read progression thing?

Are you trying to make out that being a hypocrite is wolfy? It's not. Being a hypocrite is towny because you have confbias in your alignment so don't view yourself as capable of being wolfy so can suspect others for things you're doing. Wolves are less hypocritical in that way.

My problem is I thought Sig/Kate was a diff check and I thought Sig was wolfier overall but now I'm kinda thinking it's just T v T which is fucking with my world view cause Kates general progression is towny itself I think.

What about Kate's progression is towny?

I think the way they've clearly conf biased their gut read and refuse to look outside it is something townies do more than scum. No?

I don't think this applies to Kate specifically. In fact your description is more aligned to Kate as mafia than town in my limited experience with her.

[sig]

@sig got any reads that don't involve me?

Yes sir

Wilgy, Falcon, you, are solid town. The first two for tone and how their banter came across. Now you might say sig didjt you just say fluff is NAI? Well yes I did but whatever.

Neon and SVS are light town reads. SVS responded well to the push and Neon is posting as she normally does.

Kate is my leading mafia read right now. I think she very opportunistically jumped on my wagon and she always pokes/votes me when I’m mafia.


I’d also bet 100% the other mafia member is a low poster but not in the screenshot she sent over.


You’re welcome I solved the game.

Yeet.

When she’s mafia is obviously what I mean. I blame phone postinh

@S~V~S

Thanks sig. I could see why she thought that. I would have thought that too.

I could also see your explanation, I also get flak for semantics. But the fact that your go to has been, “She’s bad”, hasn’t helped you.

Your reaction to her suspicion, whether valid or not, looks off to me.

My only experience with bad Neon is Holes, and I don’t think she looks anything like that here. Zero.

Join me on the Wilgy wagon.

My wagon has been pushed by Kate who’s tunneling at best and mafia at worst and Mac who doesn’t think I’m mafia now. The other people voted with vague bad reasoning

[DrWilgy]

I genuinely have no idea how Kate can have a townread on SixStrings without TMI.

Where was this presented? I didn't see or notice it.

[MacDougall]

I definitely don't feel like sig is mafia. He is a total island. He's Tasmania as fuck right now.

[sig]

You... were hostile 3P in GoC though.

Not mafia though so the misvote attempt still applies

This logic does not compute.

Yes it 100% does

The reasoning for her attempt was based off a “slip” this slip didn’t exist


She used it as a reaosn to vote me and I wasn’t mafia. Ergo we’ve seen multiple times of mafia using a fake slip as a reason to vote

Will you make up your mind about what my read is based on? It's a totality if circumstances. Stop trying to pick at it piecemeal. It doesn't work that way.

Will you?

Since every time you’re pressured by me you seem to have a. Different reason

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but I don't feel pressured by you at all.

That’s not being reflected in your pairing style

[S~V~S]

Wow there’s a shot load of semantics analysis going on here.

Not my favorite thing tbh.

I will have time to catch up to thread after I get home and then tomorrow. Ttfn

[MacDougall]

I genuinely have no idea how Kate can have a townread on SixStrings without TMI.

Where was this presented? I didn't see or notice it.

Literally within the last 5 minutes.

[sig]

Posting rip ;(

I should stop driving and phone mafiaing

[DrWilgy]

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

I’ll follow this

This feels like flailing.

You town read me but are ok with voting me now rather than working with me to solve you. Nice.

[sig]

Wow there’s a shot load of semantics analysis going on here.

Not my favorite thing tbh.

I will have time to catch up to thread after I get home and then tomorrow. Ttfn

The phase ends in 15 minutes


If you cant get caught up which is understandable I’d just vote off any of the 3 wagons vs a blind trust vote D1

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Hmm... This is a good observation.

Jfc...

Can you explain why it's a bad read?

Can you actually explain how it "feels like I know Sigs alignment"

Because I don't see how. And I am town so I don't know Sigs alignment so it's a bad read

Preemptively deducting results I think is a good indicator of TMI personally.

Again, I didn't think you were wolf based on tone, but the read of preemptively flipping Sig and the results of such is kinda sketchy.

I still very likely just stay on Sig here tbh.

I'm preemptively flipping sig scum cause I thought he was scum and I used that preemptive flip to do nothing so exactly what am I TMIing?

My fucking partner?

Come on Wilgy.

Yeah it feels like that.

W Neon in this situation where you are bussing would be able to know the observers of the above post are town and thus make this post for town to interpret and hopefully change the progression of what they presented.

What benefit do I have to bus my partner in a 2 wolf set up D1?

I bus yes. But I bus for gains. In this set up I gain nothing because by D3 people will be questioning why I'm alive. And I have bussed my only partner.

Bussing here when it's unnecessary is an auto loss. I don't do auto loss.

[MacDougall]

Haha sig and neon voting together on the person I floated.

Damn it kids get your own alternative wagon.

[sig]

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

I’ll follow this

This feels like flailing.

You town read me but are ok with voting me now rather than working with me to solve you. Nice.

I did, but your reasoning for leaving the wagons as they were isn’t very towny

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I genuinely have no idea how Kate can have a townread on SixStrings without TMI.

In this. I fully agree.

[DrWilgy]

I genuinely have no idea how Kate can have a townread on SixStrings without TMI.

Where was this presented? I didn't see or notice it.

Literally within the last 5 minutes.

Oh, I see. I didn't relate a "wouldn't vote" with a tr, but w/e.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I also super don't understand what the three of you are taking issue with sig on the gut read progression thing?

Are you trying to make out that being a hypocrite is wolfy? It's not. Being a hypocrite is towny because you have confbias in your alignment so don't view yourself as capable of being wolfy so can suspect others for things you're doing. Wolves are less hypocritical in that way.

My problem is I thought Sig/Kate was a diff check and I thought Sig was wolfier overall but now I'm kinda thinking it's just T v T which is fucking with my world view cause Kates general progression is towny itself I think.

What about Kate's progression is towny?

I think the way they've clearly conf biased their gut read and refuse to look outside it is something townies do more than scum. No?

I don't think this applies to Kate specifically. In fact your description is more aligned to Kate as mafia than town in my limited experience with her.

Hmmm. Okay.

[sig]

Jfc...

Can you explain why it's a bad read?

Can you actually explain how it "feels like I know Sigs alignment"

Because I don't see how. And I am town so I don't know Sigs alignment so it's a bad read

Preemptively deducting results I think is a good indicator of TMI personally.

Again, I didn't think you were wolf based on tone, but the read of preemptively flipping Sig and the results of such is kinda sketchy.

I still very likely just stay on Sig here tbh.

I'm preemptively flipping sig scum cause I thought he was scum and I used that preemptive flip to do nothing so exactly what am I TMIing?

My fucking partner?

Come on Wilgy.

Yeah it feels like that.

W Neon in this situation where you are bussing would be able to know the observers of the above post are town and thus make this post for town to interpret and hopefully change the progression of what they presented.

What benefit do I have to bus my partner in a 2 wolf set up D1?

I bus yes. But I bus for gains. In this set up I gain nothing because by D3 people will be questioning why I'm alive. And I have bussed my only partner.

Bussing here when it's unnecessary is an auto loss. I don't do auto loss.

If we assume neon is also civ it’s very likely there’s one mafia on my wagon and one on hers.

shit maybe my early tin foil on falcon/Wilgy is right

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Haha sig and neon voting together on the person I floated.

Damn it kids get your own alternative wagon.

Never

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Dennis isn't an option nobody sees the wolf amongst us

[S~V~S]

And in my 15 years of experience with her it’s not. Going balls to the walls to yeet someone day one is not in Kate’s bad toolbox.

[DrWilgy]

@sig you mean this interactions which you decided to drop and not respond to?

@DrWilgy

General thoughts on me vs neon?

And if you could flash onto someone who would it be

Falcon's observation holds weight to the point where I wouldn't feel bad voting either of you.

I would not flash as it stands. I think you/Neon have the most thread weight as well so your flips would be relatively good for town health I think.

Ooo don’t like this answer

Why. My PoE feels pretty thin. You, Neon, Daisy, SixStrings, maybe Matahari, but I've seen players I trust call Mata the pinnacle of towniness so w/e.

Your ever present lack of explanation does not make it possible for me to solve you. Saying I voiced it when you dropped the subject doesn't help.

[sig]

And in my 15 years of experience with her it’s not. Going balls to the walls to yeet someone day one is not in Kate’s bad toolbox.

Okay then she’s just wrong,

[Kate]

I genuinely have no idea how Kate can have a townread on SixStrings without TMI.

Bc I don't envision any world where rox and splints give a first time player a mafia role, especially when there are only 2 mafia.

[DrWilgy]

Jfc...

Can you explain why it's a bad read?

Can you actually explain how it "feels like I know Sigs alignment"

Because I don't see how. And I am town so I don't know Sigs alignment so it's a bad read

Preemptively deducting results I think is a good indicator of TMI personally.

Again, I didn't think you were wolf based on tone, but the read of preemptively flipping Sig and the results of such is kinda sketchy.

I still very likely just stay on Sig here tbh.

I'm preemptively flipping sig scum cause I thought he was scum and I used that preemptive flip to do nothing so exactly what am I TMIing?

My fucking partner?

Come on Wilgy.

Yeah it feels like that.

W Neon in this situation where you are bussing would be able to know the observers of the above post are town and thus make this post for town to interpret and hopefully change the progression of what they presented.

What benefit do I have to bus my partner in a 2 wolf set up D1?

I bus yes. But I bus for gains. In this set up I gain nothing because by D3 people will be questioning why I'm alive. And I have bussed my only partner.

Bussing here when it's unnecessary is an auto loss. I don't do auto loss.

This is at least worth merit. I will not be voting you today.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I genuinely have no idea how Kate can have a townread on SixStrings without TMI.

Bc I don't envision any world where rox and splints give a first time player a mafia role, especially when there are only 2 mafia.

That's not how this works...