The Syndicate

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:40 pm Man I am so excited to exist solely in the peanut gallery of the great beyond

Thank you for all those ISO’s! If you’re town, I’m sorry this is how your game life ended.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:38 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:35 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:34 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:32 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:29 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:26 pm @Guillotine, I see the semantics you’re talking about, but it rolls the other way too because the word “before” does technically mean before the present time, but the implicit use of “before” is a broad statement meaning more or less “ever.” So while Dana might be scum, this “trap” isn’t proof lol.
The entire playerlist can tell me that im wrong, but as one who fell for a townie's psychological games in the past, i can tell you right now that Dana psychologically admitted that she is scum now.
Listen, I’m not saying you’re wrong about Dana being scum lol. But there is no “psychological admission” here because, like I said, “before” doesn’t always mean what you think it means lol.

If anything, her response to your call out feels more of where we should be looking.
Well i was caught like that and if Dana flips wolf, then you guys are wrong and my theory is right.
Guillo, please never become a scientist.
Question, What do scum do when they get caught with their pants down, Seanzie?

This question aligns with what I’ve suggested. Look at how Dana reacted when you called out this “trap.” I think that’s more telling tbh.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:34 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:32 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:29 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:26 pm @Guillotine, I see the semantics you’re talking about, but it rolls the other way too because the word “before” does technically mean before the present time, but the implicit use of “before” is a broad statement meaning more or less “ever.” So while Dana might be scum, this “trap” isn’t proof lol.
The entire playerlist can tell me that im wrong, but as one who fell for a townie's psychological games in the past, i can tell you right now that Dana psychologically admitted that she is scum now.
Listen, I’m not saying you’re wrong about Dana being scum lol. But there is no “psychological admission” here because, like I said, “before” doesn’t always mean what you think it means lol.

If anything, her response to your call out feels more of where we should be looking.
Well i was caught like that and if Dana flips wolf, then you guys are wrong and my theory is right.

That’s not how this works. Dana’s flip does not mean that this “trap” was a trap Dana fell for. You can be right that she’s scum (which I will gladly stand here and tell y’all I told you so! Haha) and you can be wrong about this trap at the same time. Regardless, this is a pointless argument that I should stop engaging with haha.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:29 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:26 pm @Guillotine, I see the semantics you’re talking about, but it rolls the other way too because the word “before” does technically mean before the present time, but the implicit use of “before” is a broad statement meaning more or less “ever.” So while Dana might be scum, this “trap” isn’t proof lol.
The entire playerlist can tell me that im wrong, but as one who fell for a townie's psychological games in the past, i can tell you right now that Dana psychologically admitted that she is scum now.

Listen, I’m not saying you’re wrong about Dana being scum lol. But there is no “psychological admission” here because, like I said, “before” doesn’t always mean what you think it means lol.

If anything, her response to your call out feels more of where we should be looking.

@hawkataine, did you say Dana came into D2 wanting attention on Owner?

@Guillotine, I see the semantics you’re talking about, but it rolls the other way too because the word “before” does technically mean before the present time, but the implicit use of “before” is a broad statement meaning more or less “ever.” So while Dana might be scum, this “trap” isn’t proof lol.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:34 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:33 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:25 pm It’s pretty unlikely hawk isn’t the chop in three hours. We might as well use our solving time on the rest of the game and let her leave the best legacy she can without interference.
I think interacting with Hawk can be very helpful right now. She might be the yeet, but when she flips, these interactions could help. You spent a great deal of time with Nutella’s interactions so I assume you’d agree.
That’s exactly what I mean. I want hawk to make reads on people so I can assess later, not have her time wasted repeating her defenses over and over when she is being interrogated for the 20th time.

It’s not interacting if we are to leave her completely alone.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:32 pm I don’t know why mafia chose Gavial and I. I can only theorize. I was asked to report what happened, and that’s what I did.

This is a defensive post. You have every right to report when asked, just as everyone else has every right to consider and react to that report.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:25 pm It’s pretty unlikely hawk isn’t the chop in three hours. We might as well use our solving time on the rest of the game and let her leave the best legacy she can without interference.

I think interacting with Hawk can be very helpful right now. She might be the yeet, but when she flips, these interactions could help. You spent a great deal of time with Nutella’s interactions so I assume you’d agree.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:08 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:56 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:53 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:50 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:48 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:46 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:44 am By what I read from other players, Gavial is being painted as a loose cannon that would have killed JJJ for shits and giggles.

As a wild card myself i think he is being misunderstood and driving a narrative for what he’d do in that situation based on meta is a tremendous reach. Upon looking at Gavial’s ISO, he ended townreading JJJ by EoD, there is no reason to believe he’d play against his own wincon and kill JJJ.
Don’t confuse us as being game throwers for being natural gamblers and take risks that most players wouldnt, that is a big discredit for his legacy.

Gavial, do not worry, i will uncover what went down in that date.
EoD1 or EoD2?
His last EoD.
So I’m not sure that really matters in the situation then because the pairing was made during N1. How he was reading Jay at the end of D2 wouldn’t have affected the pairing.
What are you talking about? Galvian was not the cupid nor was JJJ?!!!!
They were paired up N1 though. We got the announcement at the start of D1. So like, his D2 reads wouldn’t have factored into Owner’s decision.
Right, that is why scum would kill within the date after seeing Gavial’s change of read towards JJJ. If scum selected between those two and they are both town is because they represented their biggest threat, right? If im scum and i see that the likelyhood of two date kills equals to zero because of that, i’d kill within date the biggest threat to make sure.

Instead they kill Kito. No disrespect for Kito, he is a great player, but there are bigger players here who if town pose a bigger threat such as Mac, JJJ or Seanzie for example.

So either Kito correctly scum read someone we havent or Kito’s kill was a distraction from what’s really going on.

Honestly if either JJJ or Mac survive tonight, I’d start worrying.

So from how I’m seeing it, the mechanic makes sense. Owner was a mafia aligned 1-shot Cupid. From what I read online, Cupid tends to be a 3p role. I can see this game playing out a variation of that role in the hands of mafia...especially being that it was a 1-shot ability.

I don’t really agree with Jay’s reasoning behind why they chose Gavial and that has given me some pause (but that’s an opinion and those can differ and I don’t know Gavial lol so...); however, it felt like Jay came out of there over-explaining the situation.

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:56 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:53 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:50 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:48 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:46 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:44 am By what I read from other players, Gavial is being painted as a loose cannon that would have killed JJJ for shits and giggles.

As a wild card myself i think he is being misunderstood and driving a narrative for what he’d do in that situation based on meta is a tremendous reach. Upon looking at Gavial’s ISO, he ended townreading JJJ by EoD, there is no reason to believe he’d play against his own wincon and kill JJJ.
Don’t confuse us as being game throwers for being natural gamblers and take risks that most players wouldnt, that is a big discredit for his legacy.

Gavial, do not worry, i will uncover what went down in that date.
EoD1 or EoD2?
His last EoD.
So I’m not sure that really matters in the situation then because the pairing was made during N1. How he was reading Jay at the end of D2 wouldn’t have affected the pairing.
What are you talking about? Galvian was not the cupid nor was JJJ?!!!!
They were paired up N1 though. We got the announcement at the start of D1. So like, his D2 reads wouldn’t have factored into Owner’s decision.

EBWOP: we got the announcement at the start of D2 so D2 reads wouldn’t have mattered

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:53 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:50 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:48 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:46 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:44 am By what I read from other players, Gavial is being painted as a loose cannon that would have killed JJJ for shits and giggles.

As a wild card myself i think he is being misunderstood and driving a narrative for what he’d do in that situation based on meta is a tremendous reach. Upon looking at Gavial’s ISO, he ended townreading JJJ by EoD, there is no reason to believe he’d play against his own wincon and kill JJJ.
Don’t confuse us as being game throwers for being natural gamblers and take risks that most players wouldnt, that is a big discredit for his legacy.

Gavial, do not worry, i will uncover what went down in that date.
EoD1 or EoD2?
His last EoD.
So I’m not sure that really matters in the situation then because the pairing was made during N1. How he was reading Jay at the end of D2 wouldn’t have affected the pairing.
What are you talking about? Galvian was not the cupid nor was JJJ?!!!!

They were paired up N1 though. We got the announcement at the start of D1. So like, his D2 reads wouldn’t have factored into Owner’s decision.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:48 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:46 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:44 am By what I read from other players, Gavial is being painted as a loose cannon that would have killed JJJ for shits and giggles.

As a wild card myself i think he is being misunderstood and driving a narrative for what he’d do in that situation based on meta is a tremendous reach. Upon looking at Gavial’s ISO, he ended townreading JJJ by EoD, there is no reason to believe he’d play against his own wincon and kill JJJ.
Don’t confuse us as being game throwers for being natural gamblers and take risks that most players wouldnt, that is a big discredit for his legacy.

Gavial, do not worry, i will uncover what went down in that date.
EoD1 or EoD2?
His last EoD.

So I’m not sure that really matters in the situation then because the pairing was made during N1. How he was reading Jay at the end of D2 wouldn’t have affected the pairing.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:44 am By what I read from other players, Gavial is being painted as a loose cannon that would have killed JJJ for shits and giggles.

As a wild card myself i think he is being misunderstood and driving a narrative for what he’d do in that situation based on meta is a tremendous reach. Upon looking at Gavial’s ISO, he ended townreading JJJ by EoD, there is no reason to believe he’d play against his own wincon and kill JJJ.
Don’t confuse us as being game throwers for being natural gamblers and take risks that most players wouldnt, that is a big discredit for his legacy.

Gavial, do not worry, i will uncover what went down in that date.

EoD1 or EoD2?

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:42 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:40 am
hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:38 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:34 am
hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:31 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:29 am
hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:27 am Am I seriously getting yeeted because everyone misread my claim post and thought I was trying to retcon when I clarified
I mean I’ve made my peace with my fate but
Lol game
Have you done an ISO of orange? I know you’ve done a few, and I can’t remember
I’ve only done gnome, Dana, Martin and fable so far
Hopefully I will do owner, Sonny/orange, LoMo and you before day end just because that’s probably most useful for people who don’t know you guys
If there’s anything urgently missing from this list then yell but my time on Earth is limited xD
You’re voting for Orange, but you seen pretty firm on your scum read of Gnome. You’ve done an ISO of those you just listed, putting work into those reads, and you’re voting Orange?
I ISOed Sonny yesterday but didn’t really write it up, somewhere in my posts there’s a whole load of questions for him tho. And orange has def been scummy today, just not in a way I can cite lol
I mean, maybe if you did an ISO like the others you could cite it lol. I’m just trying to figure out where you ended up on Orange after looking into others. Is it a self-pres thing?
Yeah sorry I have always planned to ISO orange I just haven’t had time yet. Not self-pres, pretty sure JJJ only voted there to support me lol

I’m still wondering how you ended up on Orange then lol. Just feels? Is that it?

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:40 am Act can you verify for these nice people that the first thing town!hawk does upon receiving a 1-shot power role in a role madness setup is work out what fakeclaims could benefit town

I’d love to, but I’m not the one to ask

I don’t know your town play vs. scum play. I also hate meta. So...lol

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:38 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:34 am
hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:31 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:29 am
hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:27 am Am I seriously getting yeeted because everyone misread my claim post and thought I was trying to retcon when I clarified
I mean I’ve made my peace with my fate but
Lol game
Have you done an ISO of orange? I know you’ve done a few, and I can’t remember
I’ve only done gnome, Dana, Martin and fable so far
Hopefully I will do owner, Sonny/orange, LoMo and you before day end just because that’s probably most useful for people who don’t know you guys
If there’s anything urgently missing from this list then yell but my time on Earth is limited xD
You’re voting for Orange, but you seen pretty firm on your scum read of Gnome. You’ve done an ISO of those you just listed, putting work into those reads, and you’re voting Orange?
I ISOed Sonny yesterday but didn’t really write it up, somewhere in my posts there’s a whole load of questions for him tho. And orange has def been scummy today, just not in a way I can cite lol

I mean, maybe if you did an ISO like the others you could cite it lol. I’m just trying to figure out where you ended up on Orange after looking into others. Is it a self-pres thing?

hawkataine wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:14 pm Well this is the worst day start I could have possibly imagined

You’d think I was having a good game given that I’ve correctly read everyone who’s flipped so far (except gav but I honestly don’t remember if that was a scum read or an annoyance read), successfully baited owner into outing herself at EoD1 (disagree if you want, this was my intention and it worked), saved Alison (who I really hope is town), and set up an elaborate plan to get the poisoner to target the PoE

And yet (and we’re going for a sort of mirror effect for the next paragraph)

I can’t claim 2-shot healer anymore because Martin has claimed 1-shot and we’ve established there are probably role duplicates. I didn’t actually save Alison, I instead wasted my shot (I knew this would happen but what are you gonna do). My EoD1 vote has everyone wanting my blood despite it being the laziest attempt to save Nutella I would have never come up with. My accurate reads are pretty much worthless because Kito and belzy are both dead, along with Nutella and owner, except fuckin’ everybody also scum read those guys so I don’t even have that going for me.

And that’s not all

Because gavial roleblocked me, someone with a goddamn day action, on N1, the same night there was no kill. Kito, who can actually read me, is dead. Sonny, who I wanted to interrogate today about things he’s said, has repped out (hope you’re okay tho).

So like now what

All I can really do is ask everyone voting me to read my posts and think about whether I’m actually teamed with Nutella and owner. Okay, I’m a player who tends to hedge a bit and allow people the benefit of the doubt when a) I don’t know them or b) they haven’t been around much. Oh hey, look at that, both apply here, that’s my luck this game. If it helps anybody see the light, here are some things I definitely don’t do if I’m on a team with Nutella and owner:
- That terrible made vote with no explanation
- Carry the kill N1 after a terrible EoD
- Come in at start of D2 and say “oh hey I caught owner” and then not draw any attention to how hard I’m scum reading her
- State that I could clear myself today yesterday (this was gonna be a ‘hey look Alison survived’ kinda deal)
- Kill Kito (I miss you </3)

Anyway, I’m gonna spend tonight playing betrayal with my flatmates because I’ve honestly never felt this demotivated as town in my life (not anybody’s fault, just a ridiculously terrible combination of factors). I’ll try to come back tomorrow and be useful.

It’s true. Hawk didn’t claim 2-shot.

Also, I wanted to quote this again because I feel like it can be helpful to reference.

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:31 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:29 am
hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:27 am Am I seriously getting yeeted because everyone misread my claim post and thought I was trying to retcon when I clarified
I mean I’ve made my peace with my fate but
Lol game
Have you done an ISO of orange? I know you’ve done a few, and I can’t remember
I’ve only done gnome, Dana, Martin and fable so far
Hopefully I will do owner, Sonny/orange, LoMo and you before day end just because that’s probably most useful for people who don’t know you guys
If there’s anything urgently missing from this list then yell but my time on Earth is limited xD

You’re voting for Orange, but you seen pretty firm on your scum read of Gnome. You’ve done an ISO of those you just listed, putting work into those reads, and you’re voting Orange?

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:28 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:26 am
lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:24 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:25 pm How exactly does your 2-shot healer work? It’s a day action? Why would you waste it knowing Alison was poisoned? How did you waste it? Like...who else would you have healed? Lol

You were roleblocked N1, does this roleblock extend into the day phase? Is that why you didn’t heal Alison?

If Gavial already claimed to have blocked your action, and everyone was calling you scum for it, why didn’t you claim then? It would have saved us a lot of time and speculation and may have clued us into Alison’s fate because for all you knew, Alison was about to be dead. If you’re town, and Alison is so clearly town (and someone who favors legacy reads), maybe it would have benefited town to know so Alison could potentially leave some reads.

Your timing for the claim does not align. The logics don’t fit.

[VOTE: HAWK] aubergine
Basically what i felt about hawk's post as well.
Hawk has since claimed 1-shot healer
I know but what's the use. Basically the bolded.

Right, but if Hawk really is a 1-shot healer and knew that role blocking didn’t affect day actions, that would resolve that particular concern. At the time she would have understood Alison to be saved.

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:27 am Am I seriously getting yeeted because everyone misread my claim post and thought I was trying to retcon when I clarified
I mean I’ve made my peace with my fate but
Lol game

Have you done an ISO of orange? I know you’ve done a few, and I can’t remember

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:24 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:25 pm How exactly does your 2-shot healer work? It’s a day action? Why would you waste it knowing Alison was poisoned? How did you waste it? Like...who else would you have healed? Lol

You were roleblocked N1, does this roleblock extend into the day phase? Is that why you didn’t heal Alison?

If Gavial already claimed to have blocked your action, and everyone was calling you scum for it, why didn’t you claim then? It would have saved us a lot of time and speculation and may have clued us into Alison’s fate because for all you knew, Alison was about to be dead. If you’re town, and Alison is so clearly town (and someone who favors legacy reads), maybe it would have benefited town to know so Alison could potentially leave some reads.

Your timing for the claim does not align. The logics don’t fit.

[VOTE: HAWK] aubergine
Basically what i felt about hawk's post as well.

Hawk has since claimed 1-shot healer

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:15 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 7:03 am
Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:00 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:01 pm @hawkataine, do you really believe your ISO of gnome or...?? Lol the only thing from gnome that feels unlike what I know of her, is the sarcasm. I don’t recall gnome ever being this snarky and sarcastic in past games lol. Like, gnome’s got sass! Lol
It was fun, lol.

Aside from Hawk, who else do you think is scum?
Right now, I'm thinking that the scum could include bad bunny, martin, and made.

Gnome, I don’t see a world in which Hawk and Martin are scum together. What’s your thought process on that?

bad bunny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 10:53 am [VOTE: martin] aubergine

If you think Seanzie saw me visit Kito, why aren’t you voting for me?? Why is Martin a stronger scum read?

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:54 am Sorry act I should clarify that gnome hasn’t been specifically scummy post-by-post, it’s more that her focuses and progressions have been weird. Hence why I think you have to ISO her to see that at the moment because it’s the easiest way to track what she’s been commenting on and what she’s been avoiding. But also I’m bad at reading her too xD

Well that’s what I mean too...her focus, her questions, her behavior has felt SO scummy to me in past games that I just don’t know where to even look with her. Your confidence and focus on gnome as someone who knows her has grabbed my attention because maybe you know more about her play than I do.

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:40 am @Actvscenei The posts I pulled on Dana are just the ones that jumped out at me as containing AI stuff. I did comment on her reads lists, anything I didn’t quote just didn’t speak to me I guess xD our brains make reads in very different ways so all I can say is I’m fairly happy with my read there

Regarding gnome, possibly the posts I quoted are not the most concerning thing. What really stuck out to me was the number of questions she asked exclusively about owner yesterday in a way that didn’t seem to line up with her progressions. I’d definitely recommend looking through her ISO yourself, it’s not too long and contains very little lol. Also I’d expect a little bit more doubt from town!gnome here, her progression on me vs Martin today makes little sense and as far as I can tell the post that eventually stopped her from questioning whether I was scum was the “pretend I’m confirmed town” post I made, which she misread. But maybe I’m just salty that she’s being so close-minded. I look forward to laughing from the grave (okay I’m definitely salty). If you could sanity check me here and talk a bit about her meta that’d really help me tbh

I’m AWFUL at reading gnome. In a discord game we played, gnome “scum slipped” like three times and was still town lol. But I’m interested in how others read her because of this. I feel like ISO’ing gnome is the last thing anyone should do because in concentration, gnome is going to look SUPER scummy. I take it with a grain of salt. Do you have a specific tell or way of reading gnome that isn’t just an ISO?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:32 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:30 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:26 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:51 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:47 pm What specifically did allcrab and lomo claim?
Some sort of nerfed watcher. They both watched JJJ N1.
The weirdest thing about this is that both claimers just accepted each other without question.
What do you think that means?
Dunno. That could just be the unique dynamic of understanding between Allcrab and lost monkey.

Just on pure probability though we're forced to take a bit of a leap of faith to believe that two identical pseudo-watchers targeted the same player on Night 1, and that both are town.

Why do you think they’d both be town? (I don’t understand mechanics haha). If both watchers could be town, do you think both healers could be town? Or does that mechanic not check out the same way?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:26 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:51 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:47 pm What specifically did allcrab and lomo claim?
Some sort of nerfed watcher. They both watched JJJ N1.
The weirdest thing about this is that both claimers just accepted each other without question.

What do you think that means?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:46 pm im in hospital again so ez three day pass yeh?

I hope you’re okay!

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:00 am
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:01 pm @hawkataine, do you really believe your ISO of gnome or...?? Lol the only thing from gnome that feels unlike what I know of her, is the sarcasm. I don’t recall gnome ever being this snarky and sarcastic in past games lol. Like, gnome’s got sass! Lol
It was fun, lol.

Aside from Hawk, who else do you think is scum?

Dana’s posts still don’t look good to me retrospectively, but I do agree with @hawkataine that Dana wouldn’t start a day phase asking for attention on a scum buddy. Doesn’t mean Hawk is town, but it might mean that Dana is.

@hawkataine, do you really believe your ISO of gnome or...?? Lol the only thing from gnome that feels unlike what I know of her, is the sarcasm. I don’t recall gnome ever being this snarky and sarcastic in past games lol. Like, gnome’s got sass! Lol

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:48 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:45 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:34 pm I am like... oddly saddened by the lack of participation in this game from the MafC folks. I get that a lot of them are in weird time zones, and also that we don't run these big games (I remember I was daunted by an 17 person game we played on there), and being on a new forum is weird, but like... I was really looking forward to the crossover game, and now it feels more like a syndicate game with a few MafC people that pop in occasionally.
I feel like I’m doing a pretty good job at keeping up with a large game on a new site especially considering I haven’t played a large game in actual years. So like I’m proud of me lol.
Haha, yes, you are doing well. I was looking at post counts, and I am worried that you and I might be the only MafC'ers to end up higher than Nutella by the end of the game, and that only if you keep steady with your pace right now. and we don't CFD you:P

I think Guillotine signed up as MafC lol. So he counts haha

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:46 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:41 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:39 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:37 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 7:29 pm Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?
No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.
Why did you switch from seeming to think there could be a second healer to then seeing to think there absolutely couldn't be one?
How would this be a scum mindset to think there were two healers and then switch to thinking there was only one?
It is possible that Martin knew there was another healer out there for any number of reasons, but then once realizing it was Hawk, wanted Hawk dead for some reason.

One possible thought I had, but doesn't quite fit is that Martin was actually a 3p poisoner, and wanted to claim healer as their fakeclaim, knowing that there would be a healer out there.

Another thought I've been considering that weighs more heavily on my mind is that Martin could be mafia healer, and deduced that there should be a town healer as well, possibly because Martin may not have targeted Alison, or because Martin just guessed there would be one of each alignment since in this case, the poisoner really should be 3p. zin this case, Martin doubles down on potentially Town!Hawk to secure a much needed misyeet.

I'm not convinced of these things by any means, but it is worth exploring while Martin is here.

In making that claim though as a fake claim, he pretty much guarantees himself a death if Hawk (or whoever it would have been claiming) flips town. At that point, all eyes would go to the other claim regardless because that’s just the motion of the ocean in this game lol. Is it worth it then? (And tbc, I’m not necessarily disagreeing, just trying to flesh this out).

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:34 pm I am like... oddly saddened by the lack of participation in this game from the MafC folks. I get that a lot of them are in weird time zones, and also that we don't run these big games (I remember I was daunted by an 17 person game we played on there), and being on a new forum is weird, but like... I was really looking forward to the crossover game, and now it feels more like a syndicate game with a few MafC people that pop in occasionally.

I feel like I’m doing a pretty good job at keeping up with a large game on a new site especially considering I haven’t played a large game in actual years. So like

I’m proud of me lol.

@hawkataine, why did you choose the Dana quotes you chose to ISO? Why didn’t you address her other posts including her entrances and and reads lists? Why didn’t you look at her posts in response to my questions? I spent one and a half day phases pretty much set on Dana lol. I feel like that would have been a part to look at when going through her ISO, but you didn’t. Why?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:39 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:37 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 7:29 pm Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?
No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.
Why did you switch from seeming to think there could be a second healer to then seeing to think there absolutely couldn't be one?

How would this be a scum mindset to think there were two healers and then switch to thinking there was only one?

hawkataine wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 12:29 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 12:28 pm @hawkataine, I respect your want to continue game solving. What is your read on Dana?
I was impressed by her on D1 and I agreed with Belzy's take on her reads list, but I really don't like how she's allowed herself to fade into the background more recently
I'll add her to the list for an ISO dive

You agreed with Belzy’s opinion of Dana’s reads list on D1? (To clarify lol). What specifically did you like about that read’s list?

Is Dana scummy because of her inactivity more recently? Did anything from her posts stand out to you?

Also, what do you make of Martin’s claim if you’re a 1-shot healer?

Do you have a read on Jay or Mac?

@hawkataine, I respect your want to continue game solving. What is your read on Dana?

Guillotine wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:55 am Garden Gnome looked like softing lost wolf.

I doubt that’s what she’s doing. It sounds like she literally has a role that is activated when she finds her lover. I have no clue whether this is town or scum aligned, but what I do know is that slips with Gnome can be just as town as they seem scum lol. So like...grain of salt, y’all. Lol

Guillotine wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 2:25 am Here is something that is bugging me though. If Hawk is scum, why claim that she is a healer after seeing Martin's healer claim. Why not just look for a better fake claim, is not like she was in danger to be hammered (as there is no hammer) and this is a closed set up where you can make up a role.
Is Hawk the suicidal type? Did she just give up? Does scum perform this kind of play after losing two teammates to the axe the previous days?

And then there is Martin. If he is scum why claim healer first knowing that he will be counterclaimed, unless he did it to bait the real claim but why, again, after losing two teammates I'd suppose they'd be more careful about that. Both claiming actions don't make any sense if you are playing to your win condition as a wolf, it only make sense if you are scum and baiting the healer out is necessary to have a chance at survival, or if you are just town.

Can they both be both town healers? I doubt it, it does not make sense but it could be.

I'm tempted to propose to yeet outside those claims actually and the healers be resolved at night. Maybe.

Hawk would make that claim to avoid a risk of a more damming cc. By claiming healer, Hawk knows the other claim and can control the situation more. Hawk, as scum, would feel the pressure and stress more with the suspicions and claim from Galvin who flipped town.

orangecrush wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:51 pm I'm kind of flipping back and forth between current day and reading back

My thoughts on the healer thing is that I don't see any reason we can't have multiple healers when we now know that there have been multiple poisons, that obviously doesn't mean anything for the alignment of each one so that's an important thing to remember

The one thing that sticks out is 1-shot and 2-shot claims. I have no real reason for thinking this but I think they would both be 1 or both be 2 OR are different Alignments if both real. It just seems kinda random to give town a 1 shot and a 2 shot of the same role instead of just two 1 shots or a 3 shot. Maybe it's my ocd lol

Anyway I'm more concern with Gnome and Mac at the current times

Did you see my post to Hawk? I asked her some questions and brought up some things that don’t make sense to me. Can you make sense of my concerns?

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:39 pm
Dana wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:36 pm
Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:30 pm
Dana wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:22 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:20 pm
Dana wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:18 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:17 pm

Gnomes don't have pockets.
Oh no... Do you think I was lied to?
By whom, about what?
By gnome, about welcoming me into her supposedly town pocket
I left snacks for you in the town pocket. I hope that you enjoyed them!
The town pocket...? But not yours?
My town pocket. (the other pocket is just for food storage.) Thank you for pointing it out.

Do you believe Hawk’s claim? (Did I miss where you talked about this?)

Dana wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:36 pm
Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:30 pm
Dana wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:22 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:20 pm
Dana wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:18 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:17 pm
Dana wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:16 pm

No, I got into gnome's pocket
Gnomes don't have pockets.
Oh no... Do you think I was lied to?
By whom, about what?
By gnome, about welcoming me into her supposedly town pocket
I left snacks for you in the town pocket. I hope that you enjoyed them!
The town pocket...? But not yours?

Did you already explain why you don’t think Hawk is scum? If not, can you?

hawkataine wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:14 pm Well this is the worst day start I could have possibly imagined

You’d think I was having a good game given that I’ve correctly read everyone who’s flipped so far (except gav but I honestly don’t remember if that was a scum read or an annoyance read), successfully baited owner into outing herself at EoD1 (disagree if you want, this was my intention and it worked), saved Alison (who I really hope is town), and set up an elaborate plan to get the poisoner to target the PoE

And yet (and we’re going for a sort of mirror effect for the next paragraph)

I can’t claim 2-shot healer anymore because Martin has claimed 1-shot and we’ve established there are probably role duplicates. I didn’t actually save Alison, I instead wasted my shot (I knew this would happen but what are you gonna do). My EoD1 vote has everyone wanting my blood despite it being the laziest attempt to save Nutella I would have never come up with. My accurate reads are pretty much worthless because Kito and belzy are both dead, along with Nutella and owner, except fuckin’ everybody also scum read those guys so I don’t even have that going for me.

And that’s not all

Because gavial roleblocked me, someone with a goddamn day action, on N1, the same night there was no kill. Kito, who can actually read me, is dead. Sonny, who I wanted to interrogate today about things he’s said, has repped out (hope you’re okay tho).

So like now what

All I can really do is ask everyone voting me to read my posts and think about whether I’m actually teamed with Nutella and owner. Okay, I’m a player who tends to hedge a bit and allow people the benefit of the doubt when a) I don’t know them or b) they haven’t been around much. Oh hey, look at that, both apply here, that’s my luck this game. If it helps anybody see the light, here are some things I definitely don’t do if I’m on a team with Nutella and owner:
- That terrible made vote with no explanation
- Carry the kill N1 after a terrible EoD
- Come in at start of D2 and say “oh hey I caught owner” and then not draw any attention to how hard I’m scum reading her
- State that I could clear myself today yesterday (this was gonna be a ‘hey look Alison survived’ kinda deal)
- Kill Kito (I miss you </3)

Anyway, I’m gonna spend tonight playing betrayal with my flatmates because I’ve honestly never felt this demotivated as town in my life (not anybody’s fault, just a ridiculously terrible combination of factors). I’ll try to come back tomorrow and be useful.

How exactly does your 2-shot healer work? It’s a day action? Why would you waste it knowing Alison was poisoned? How did you waste it? Like...who else would you have healed? Lol

You were roleblocked N1, does this roleblock extend into the day phase? Is that why you didn’t heal Alison?

If Gavial already claimed to have blocked your action, and everyone was calling you scum for it, why didn’t you claim then? It would have saved us a lot of time and speculation and may have clued us into Alison’s fate because for all you knew, Alison was about to be dead. If you’re town, and Alison is so clearly town (and someone who favors legacy reads), maybe it would have benefited town to know so Alison could potentially leave some reads.

Your timing for the claim does not align. The logics don’t fit.

[VOTE: Hawk] aubergine

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:18 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:16 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:13 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:11 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:09 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:06 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:01 pm

It's funny, I actually made you "trend up" on my legacy reads because I wanted to see if the wolves would take the bait and let you carry the kill, assuming they didn't kill me. Did this factor into your decisions in wolf chat? I'm genuinely curious.
Unless mafia went into full blown deep wolf mode by straight up bussing Owner out of no where (which I don’t think happened), you were given wrong information. I don’t see why else you’d make this up. Please consider that before you start pushing for my yeet. I literally just posted a bunch of Golden Girls gifs in my discord.
Well, if someone claims they redirected me, we can yeet whomever they redirected me to. Otherwise, you're it.
What if the person who redirected you is scum? Why in that case would they claim? They’re watching me die because of whatever they did to make you think I killed Kito.
Scum wouldn't redirect me onto scum since they don't know the extent of my powers.
I’m not scum. And I didn’t do shit last night so idk man, but from where I’m standing either you were given wrong information or you’re straight up lying.
Okay, I believe you and I rescind my redcheck.

I didn't target Actv. I know this comes as a huge surprise to everyone.

Well, now everyone knows about my lame night and golden girls gifs

(which I invite you all to enjoy post game hahah).

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:13 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:11 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:09 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:06 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:01 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:00 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:55 pm [VOTE: Actv] aubergine
Wtf...I literally didn’t do anything last night. Either you’re lying or you were given wrong information.
It's funny, I actually made you "trend up" on my legacy reads because I wanted to see if the wolves would take the bait and let you carry the kill, assuming they didn't kill me. Did this factor into your decisions in wolf chat? I'm genuinely curious.
Unless mafia went into full blown deep wolf mode by straight up bussing Owner out of no where (which I don’t think happened), you were given wrong information. I don’t see why else you’d make this up. Please consider that before you start pushing for my yeet. I literally just posted a bunch of Golden Girls gifs in my discord.
Well, if someone claims they redirected me, we can yeet whomever they redirected me to. Otherwise, you're it.
What if the person who redirected you is scum? Why in that case would they claim? They’re watching me die because of whatever they did to make you think I killed Kito.
Scum wouldn't redirect me onto scum since they don't know the extent of my powers.

I’m not scum. And I didn’t do shit last night so idk man, but from where I’m standing either you were given wrong information or you’re straight up lying.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:09 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:06 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:01 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:00 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:55 pm [VOTE: Actv] aubergine
Wtf...I literally didn’t do anything last night. Either you’re lying or you were given wrong information.
It's funny, I actually made you "trend up" on my legacy reads because I wanted to see if the wolves would take the bait and let you carry the kill, assuming they didn't kill me. Did this factor into your decisions in wolf chat? I'm genuinely curious.
Unless mafia went into full blown deep wolf mode by straight up bussing Owner out of no where (which I don’t think happened), you were given wrong information. I don’t see why else you’d make this up. Please consider that before you start pushing for my yeet. I literally just posted a bunch of Golden Girls gifs in my discord.
Well, if someone claims they redirected me, we can yeet whomever they redirected me to. Otherwise, you're it.

What if the person who redirected you is scum? Why in that case would they claim? They’re watching me die because of whatever they did to make you think I killed Kito.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:01 pm
Actvscenei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:00 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:55 pm [VOTE: Actv] aubergine
Wtf...I literally didn’t do anything last night. Either you’re lying or you were given wrong information.
It's funny, I actually made you "trend up" on my legacy reads because I wanted to see if the wolves would take the bait and let you carry the kill, assuming they didn't kill me. Did this factor into your decisions in wolf chat? I'm genuinely curious.

Unless mafia went into full blown deep wolf mode by straight up bussing Owner out of no where (which I don’t think happened), you were given wrong information. I don’t see why else you’d make this up. Please consider that before you start pushing for my yeet. I literally just posted a bunch of Golden Girls gifs in my discord.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:55 pm [VOTE: Actv] aubergine

Wtf...I literally didn’t do anything last night. Either you’re lying or you were given wrong information.

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