The Syndicate

If I'm being honest Medic's roleblocking is probably just the optimal play.

WCS we clear 3-4 people from not having preformed the Mafia Factional kill
BCS we roleblock the kill and we know for a fact it was roleblocked and not healed meaning PoE immedaitly is narrowed down to 4 people.

Not to mention Mafia has the ability to bypass healing, but not roleblocking.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:33 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:28 am Actually, no, I'm an idiot. Both medics be on a RBer and if they're both outed then watchers be on them.
No, actually disregard this, someone else might want to decide on what to do mech wise this is kinda screwy.

Ping me after y'all decide what is going to happen, if you have names for me to avoid roleblocking that would be huge.

Man this broke my brain.
I was looking at the post you quoted like "Man I must be super tired when I wrote that because I don't remember writing that."
It then took me way too long to realize that it wasn't something I typed and was a quote from you.

Well I guess to be fair Pyro and Heavy are mainly only useful in MyLo when their vote and kill target manipulations actually can do something useful for town.

As detrimental as it is to my own health tbh Pyro isn't useful to have around.
Neither really is Heavy, but I think both Heavies in play are pretty townie tbh.
Every other role is actually useful.

Then honestly that quote I made earlier pretty much sums up one of Faldon and Wiggly are Mafia.
I'm probably just going to say leave falcon alive so that he can heal Dolby or LC to we can keep the Roleblockers longer.

Oh wait, I'm actually wrong.
Mafia crit can be roleblocked, it cannot be healed.
So if anything we need LC and Dolby alive as long as possible to confirm people not Mafia.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:40 am like two docs can keep marmot alive indefinitely and that's just too good i think

Except with 1 Mafia remains their kills bypass roleblocks and heals, so no.

I partially lied, I went back and looked at Sig more.
And here's a quote dump with some quick thoughts.

Spoiler: show

sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:31 pm Hey I'm here sorry for going awall second part of last phase work got crazy. I"ll catch up on the thread today. Does look like we had a cfd which smh those never work shame.

Immediatly thinking we should review dizzy post see what's up with them, but also not a fan of LP jumping right into throwing out names. Especially since one of those names are mine

I said this day 2, but this still comes across to me as being very defensive just because I said Sig, Sabie, and Jack were scummy at the start of day 2.
I was right about Sabie and this seems to me as someone who was scared that i accurately named 2 Mafia.

sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:42 pm Sabie's a mixed bag from her iso so her mafia meta is a bit different than town mainly based off cases/votes

Mafia camp

1. She's being a lower poster which is a mafia tell for her
2. Doesn"t seem to be case building really, just jumping onto other wagons.
3. The marmot, gavil, sean jump isn't great and I do think LP made a good point re thoughts on marmot. Now that is something you see from both civ/mafia sabie, but usually her indecisiveness is based off her own cases, not existing wagons and is more like Im not sure if i should vote for person Y.

Town camp
1. Her posts seem genuine, like I've seen from her town game minus lack of hunting
2. I think she was being honest during our brief discussion/unsure. Which is also within her civ meta more so than mafia.

So right off the bat struggling to find more town than potential mafia tells I would like some other people familar with her meta to weight in though. My issue is she also gets mischopped alot.

I just posted how their reads on Nanook were 50/50, but I also just found this from D2 where they were also pretty iffy about calling Sabie Town or Mafia ultimately saying it's possibly just a mischop.

sig wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:43 pm
sig wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:43 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:42 pm
sig wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:31 pm So my biggest issue right now is I don't have any super solid mafia reads.

I'm back and forth on Gullio, his low tunneling on me is a bit scummy and he's not doing much content wise just volume also there's this weird thing with naa which doesn't seem V/V unless I"m missing something? But, he was also pushing sabie for awhile if i recall correctly and Last phase I pegged him as tunneling towny which seems more right.

I think the LC read on jack has some merit, but with the amount of blocks, protects, eCt out there it isn't solid.

I think most likely mafia are laying low, maybe we've got one who voted to save sabie, but doubt it's more than that, and probably one on her wagon? I need to go backk and look at that lay out.

Also beginning to suspect Falcon given his under the radar playstyle and D1 flipflopping vote then avoidance of wagons.
I'm under the radar? You've got fewer than 80 posts, kettle meet pot?

Maybe we're both mafia.
damn should've said

I go for quality not quantity thank you very much.

Lets just pretend I said that instead.

This is probably the only other quote I can see as being a little weird since I know some players like to tongue and cheek say things along those lines the "maybe we're Mafia together" kind of like a "catch me if you can" attitude.
It's minor, but seems just a bit odd and out of place since jokes like these don't usually come out D3.

I also decided to go over Nanookand Sabie's posts to look for some possible connections.

Sabie:

Spoiler: show

Sabie's other posts were basically just spewing Jack and Gav as Town which we already know.

Nanook unfortunately gave nothing away, Their only read other than Gav and Jack which they basically spewed Town was a town read on me.

I'll probably do a deeper dive on Falcon just to thoroughly compare them, but currently I see Sig as more likely Mafia of the two.

While falcon was not on either Sabie wagon, they did try and push Nanook for D2 lynch.
It was just vanity and could be just them knowing hat it would never go through, but is worth noting I think.

Sig on the other hand wasn't on Sabie's D1 wagon and sheeped Sabie and Nanook lynch without much input from what I've seen.
Sig said D1 that Nanook was a 50/50 unable to be read.

And here are the quotes Sig had on to why they voted Nanook.

Spoiler: show

Pretty much them saying they don't really scum read Nanook, but was just getting on the wagon to get on the wagon.

I feel like Sig > Falcon for Mafia tbh.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:03 am
Dolby wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:57 am
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:59 pm Honestly NAA willingly not viging anyone seems really out of character and also probably not Mafia.
this yeah
We need to be careful with information like this, because while I know it to be true, for all you knows I could be lying.

N1 - I was role blocked - this is confirmed
N2 - I claimed I forgot
N3 - I claimed I forgot

Technically I could have shot at someone N3. So yeah, it's favorable for my alignment, but it's not reliable mech info.

The fact your only action is to vig someone or to not vig someoen is quite telling you haven't vigged anyone.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:04 am
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:00 am I think I might go back to my original idea at the start of day 2 where the Mafia might have both Engies and double build dispensers to try and win early game with voting power.
Martin was also pretty quick to say he was clear by the fact the Mafia had 1 Engineer and just slide by.

The only thing I don't quite get is why nobody has requested access to Red Base even with it having a heal which would mean Mafia doesn't have another red member or someone is just lying about not entering the base for Martin to be Mafia.
mafia member enters base and martin says "ok nobody came in"?

Well we can't confirm who enters Martin's base unless 2 Red players ask to go inside.
If only 1 player (theoretically Mafia) asks he can just say no one came in.

Honestly I'm thinking LC is just Mafia.
My theory is that Nanook investigated Jack N1 and got that he was a Town Watcher.
LC then roleblocks him to prevent him from getting information and self confirming.
LC also immediately pushed Jack without even considering someone else could have preformed the kill. Jack would have no way to defend himself since he was roleblocked.
Only issue for the Mafia is Jack basically got antispewed by Nanook.

Mechanically speaking we know Wiggly and Mac did not preform the factional kill last night.
Wiggly was roleblocked and I redirected Mac which the Mafia having killed Jack seems intentional and not redirected.

I think I might go back to my original idea at the start of day 2 where the Mafia might have both Engies and double build dispensers to try and win early game with voting power.
Martin was also pretty quick to say he was clear by the fact the Mafia had 1 Engineer and just slide by.

The only thing I don't quite get is why nobody has requested access to Red Base even with it having a heal which would mean Mafia doesn't have another red member or someone is just lying about not entering the base for Martin to be Mafia.

Who were you protecteing Sig?

sig wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:36 pm Also think I deserve a wee bit of town credit for voting nanook when he wasn't yet a run away wagon. :P

I"ll accept that credit in either cash, check, or stock options.

OK this just sounds disingenuous.

There's definitely 1 Mafia in Marmot, Sig, Falcon just mechanically.
They were worried of Jack seeing their kill so just outed him. They considered Jack more threatening than Marmot though which is odd.
They probably still have their crit that bypasses healing and will use it on Marmot, Sig, or Falcon whichever are Town tonight.

Although it seems weird Mafia didn't kill either Medic claim.

Oh so Falcon was Medic he just said he was faking Medic? I guess that makes sense.

Honestly NAA willingly not viging anyone seems really out of character and also probably not Mafia.

It's random who would have targeted. If there was a really weird Mafia kill I would have called you out.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:49 pm
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:48 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:36 pm linearpoint what is your role and actions taken?
Eh, sure it's not too easy to hide it anymore anyways.

It's Pyro
N1 - Target redirected Sig (just didn't like him D1)
N2 - Protected Martin (to protect his buildings)
N3 - Target redirected Mac (Since Mac cannot normally visit I thought I could possibly catch out a Mac!Mafia preforming the factional kill)

Haven't use
You're full of shit. You've had me locktown the entire game and I buried Nanook. There's no way you targeted me with pyro redirect n3.

:P

If you don't want to clear I can take it back. As far as I'm concerned I don't see you not preforming the factional kill N3 and Jack doesn't seem like an odd Mafia kill target so I think it nicely clears you.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:36 pm linearpoint what is your role and actions taken?

Eh, sure it's not too easy to hide it anymore anyways.

It's Pyro
N1 - Target redirected Sig (just didn't like him D1)
N2 - Protected Martin (to protect his buildings)
N3 - Target redirected Mac (Since Mac cannot normally visit I thought I could possibly catch out a Mac!Mafia preforming the factional kill)

Haven't use

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:31 pm
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:29 pm But the problem is if TSP lies about his target N1. He gets outed if Sabie is not lynched D2.
no he doesn't...

"I shot at sabie but it didn't go through... must have been roleblocked or sabie saved".

That still outs whoever roleblocked him as confirmed Mafia, so I mean if TSP's grand plan is to bus his whole team then OK I guess.
But for TSP to be Mafia it still necessitates that TSP is hard bussing his whole team.

For TSP to be Mafia one of the following has to occur.
Marmot is lying or Mafia has a Demoman or Medic.
While I can see LC as being Mafia, I just don't really see the plan of fake shooting Sabie as a good idea for Mafia.

But the problem is if TSP lies about his target N1. He gets outed if Sabie is not lynched D2.

If Sabie wasn't red checked TSP would have shot Sabie if their claim was real since we wouldn't have lynched Sabie to prove TSP.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:26 pm
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:25 pm I think TSP is only Mafia if Wiggly is Mafia.
Mafia needs a Pyro for TSP's plan to fake shoot Sabie to ever work.
or there never was a plan to fake shoot sabie?

I mean he said so at the start of the day way before Sabie had been red checked.
Unless Marmot is also fake and he knew she'd by lynched anyways.

I think TSP is only Mafia if Wiggly is Mafia.
Mafia needs a Pyro for TSP's plan to fake shoot Sabie to ever work.

You drive a hard point that makes a lot of sense.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:16 pm
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:12 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:11 pm
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:01 pm Honestly need some others to get in and get a real discussion going.
I'm bored.

For real though I'm thinking my PoE is between Wiggly, Falcon, LC, NAA, Guillio, and Martin.
In that order.
Bitch, im never PoE i pushed Sabie to their death and while Nanook is not my pelt to claim, i wrote valid point why he coukd ve scum and well, he was.
You see, I'm paranoid and think you are bussing.
So im smart and skilled enough to bus them but too dumb to kill threats? Like … scum me never kills Gavial or Jack who were PoE. No, I’d go after clears or strong voices with clout.

Not for nothing im one of the best scum players to ever live.

But that's what you want me to think.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:11 pm
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:01 pm Honestly need some others to get in and get a real discussion going.
I'm bored.

For real though I'm thinking my PoE is between Wiggly, Falcon, LC, NAA, Guillio, and Martin.
In that order.
Bitch, im never PoE i pushed Sabie to their death and while Nanook is not my pelt to claim, i wrote valid point why he coukd ve scum and well, he was.

You see, I'm paranoid and think you are bussing.

I mean honestly Wiggly's gimmick isn't really AI, but he also has only been voting vanity wagon.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:04 pm
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:03 pm Honestly fuck it. I think it's time to get this out.

[VOTE: Wiggly] aubergine

He's never voted either Sabie or Nanook and does nothing but say the same thing over and over again.
Did you test Mac's gimmick read?

I'm to tired to comprehend what this even means.

Honestly fuck it. I think it's time to get this out.

[VOTE: Wiggly] aubergine

He's never voted either Sabie or Nanook and does nothing but say the same thing over and over again.

Honestly need some others to get in and get a real discussion going.
I'm bored.

For real though I'm thinking my PoE is between Wiggly, Falcon, LC, NAA, Guillio, and Martin.
In that order.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:53 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:52 pm
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:51 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:50 pm Maybe the scum team is just sabie, nanook, NAA, and Mac, and after I red-peeked sabie, mafia just opted to keep me alive and blatantly sheep me.
That's what Nanook was trying to do, so at least one of them thought that was the play.
I know Nanook, NAA, and Mac have openly said it, and it does add up to the number of mafia players there are
Ok, but is not me

I dunno, you would jokingly say Mac is your partner if you were Mafia and he was actually your partner.
Seems to add up to me.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:50 pm Maybe the scum team is just sabie, nanook, NAA, and Mac, and after I red-peeked sabie, mafia just opted to keep me alive and blatantly sheep me.

That's what Nanook was trying to do, so at least one of them thought that was the play.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:50 pm @LinearPoint MacDougall too

But that's 5 Mafia. Doesn't add up.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:48 pm
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:47 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:47 pm I've had a bottle of wine. AMA
Whose you last Maf buddy?
Marmot is my only partner in crime.

Easy game.

[VOTE: NAA] aubergine

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:47 pm I've had a bottle of wine. AMA

Whose you last Maf buddy?

Or actually it might be just LC. I don't think I agree with his block last night. It sounds more like a lie honestly since Gav just wasn't a real roleblock target.

Honestly I'm thinking maybe Guillotine is Mafia.
He was initially on the lynch Jack train before I came in and redirected the train to Nanook.
I think the train was LC who blocked Jack, Guillotine, Gav, and someone else I can't remember.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:30 pm
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:59 pm I mean Marmot always watches Jack so we should have an easy lynch today since TSP said they were shooting Gav right? So Mafia kill was probably Jack.

I didn't watch jack because I would otherwise have 5 votes on me today.

I did Discipline him last night though.

But I thought you said you didn't watch N2.

I'm honestly not a fan of just assuming Dolby and Marmot are scum who bussed using their role.
If they live a long time, OK maybe, but for now I want to steer clear of them.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:16 pm What are the living claims? We force mass claim today and kill everything bogus.

Sig - Medic (Doctor)
Dolby - Demoman (Roleblocker) - blocked Nanook N2
TSP - Sniper (Vig)
LC - Demoman (Roleblocker)
Marmot - Soldier (Watcher) - Saw Mafia Kill N1
Wiggly - Pyro (Redirector)
Martin - Engineer (JOAT)
Mac - Heavy (Vote Manipulator)

NNA at one point fake claimed Spy (Vig)
Falcon at one point fake claimed Medic (Doctor)

Non claimers are me, Guillotine, NAA, Falcon.
Of those there are a Pyro, Medic, Heavy, and Spy.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:10 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:06 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:04 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:02 pm That'd be too obvious though, nah

Maybe that is what scum wants us to think.

Why scum would kill Gavial? The loose cannon who's been PoE.

Scum does not kill Gavial but if they didn't... scum does not kill Jack either. The kills dont make sense.
Jack is spewed town by the nanook flip and probably had wolves voting him.

NAA is essentially outed by two wagons now.
Explain it to me like I'm a 10 years old please
Nanook flipped mafia
This spews the mafia team as having tried to save Sabie
It probably means at least one more mafia voted Seanzie
NAA refused to push Nanook and was a bad Seanzie voter
Dolby voted on both counterwagons
NAA has been hard pushing Dolby
There is always at least one between them
The mafia probably had multiple people voting Jack much like they did Seanzie
Probably Dolby/Nanook and Wilgy.

This is frankly probably correct,l but I don't think NAA is that obvious.

I guess we're also assuming both were not Sniper and Spy kills respectively.

Any chance the Mafia kill actually just got redirected by a Pyro?

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