Return to “Fleabag Mafia mafia win”
You might want to try to get them to explain why they aren't adopting your PoE (and mine - as they are more or less the same for this purpose).JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:18 pm @ilario just for the log, is Son of Anarch still a town read?
If my interpretations meant anything, I would be less lazy about consuming information.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:09 pmYou're pointing out lazy interpretations of content you've barely consumed that you judged well before the game actually started.
I'm not judging, just pointing out facts.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:07 pmI did that repeatedly with Lime Coke. If you want to judge my play, you should read my posts.NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:04 pmIf you have clout, and you're wrong it's warranted. If you prefer not being at fault, you should deliberately indicate that you're following someone else's read in absence of your own (in which case you'll still probably sway other people because clout).JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:14 pm I'm usually going to be the first to receive blame for failings, even if those failings can be attributed to other people too. This isn't a complaint; I recognize it's the natural tendency. Fine. Mafia know it too.
If you have clout, and you're wrong it's warranted. If you prefer not being at fault, you should deliberately indicate that you're following someone else's read in absence of your own (in which case you'll still probably sway other people because clout).JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:14 pm I'm usually going to be the first to receive blame for failings, even if those failings can be attributed to other people too. This isn't a complaint; I recognize it's the natural tendency. Fine. Mafia know it too.
Are you still on the JJJ wagon, because I feel like you may be giving the quality of his game too much credit. From my PoV, we kill J's potential partners (all in the PoE - narrow world), and if he's still alive in F3, J is the kill.G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:58 pmThese comments on Sloonei and Jay are not just based on how their posts read in this game, but also my perceptions of them from all my experiences with them as an aggregate over the years. They can say they are the same all they like. Sure, both of them have evolved to reach a very similar mindset in how mafia works. Their mantras and methods may be interchangeable, but my interactions with them and my perceptions of them are not.Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:29 pmG-Man wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:58 pm JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
I have always wanted to catch JJJ as a baddie. I don't believe that I ever have. With only a few games left in my tank, I don't know how many more times our paths will cross. All this notwithstanding, JJJ is the part of the dynamic duo that I am more concerned about. There were a few posts that did not feel like the Jay I remember. It's not difficult for me to read him as supa-towning this thing hard out of the gate like this to maximize the baddies numbers advantage and put this thing to bed neatly and quickly.
SLOONEI
RIght now, he's toeing the line of standard-issue Sloonei. He started out less solvey, but it seems to be increasing. I wasn't a fan of his philosophy of building a POE based on who can be townread the least. He's not the only one who has espoused that line of thought though. Projecting town isn't all that hard in my limited experience. Overall, he feels like a slightly different model Sloonei, but nothing that requires a recall.
Here are the explanations for his reads on the two of you @JaggedJimmyJay. Tbh, the read on you isn't very compelling. I see things like "I've always wanted to catch JJJ as mafia" and "JJJ is certainly capable of supa-towning and wrapping this game up quickly and neatly", and wonder what the conviction that brought him to that conclusion is. Easy tinfoil, but nothing convincing.
The Sloonei read is kinda similar too. In both cases, he makes a comment along the lines of "This player is different than I remember".
It is very curious that one of you ended up POE'd while the other was townread.
I can explain further, but I that might hurt some feelings.
Why you shading people based on post count, you should always kill the players who are least likely to be mafia due to the fact that they are dissociated from their partners by heavy posting.
You all are, my responsibility is just to herd you. Or in this case, let the OP character dictate the vote, I'm not high enough level to really have an impact.Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:55 pmAre you an NPC?NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:54 pmYou don't consider Skyrim to be multiplayer too do you? Just because NPCs are present, doesn't mean it's a multiplayer game.Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:52 pmI believe it's only single-player for the SK, which I suppose Dizzy did claim.NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:48 pmI don't understand this concept of "fair". Mafia is a single player game.
You don't consider Skyrim to be multiplayer too do you? Just because NPCs are present, doesn't mean it's a multiplayer game.Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:52 pmI believe it's only single-player for the SK, which I suppose Dizzy did claim.NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:48 pmI don't understand this concept of "fair". Mafia is a single player game.
I don't understand this concept of "fair". Mafia is a single player game.
NoJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:44 pmSon of Anarch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:21 pm Alright Dizzy, I’m game.
[VOTE: Falcon Man] aubergineIs this satisfactory to dissociate? Asking anyone.Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:25 pm A new triad emerges. Me, Dizzy, and Stayposi. I dub us the falcon killers
Falcon - SoAJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:42 pmWhat's the most significant reason you'd keep SoA off of that team?NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:12 pm So I can see how this could mean Falcon - Dolby - G-Man team. Yesterday's off-wagon votes really don't matter because there was never a risk of someone other than Lime Coke dying. I'm still struggling with a 4th though
The second point would be especially true if Ilario didn't want to kill SPF. First point, I can't tell either way.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:32 pm @NotAnAxehole, I think in most games I'd agree with your rationale on ilario/SoA -- if ilario is mafia, then the read looks like ordinary TMI. This time I'm a bit more cautious simply because of what I think my lead strategy would be as mafia in an 11 vs. 4 (town read my whole team as much as possible and cruise through a bad POE).
I just took another look though and reminded myself why I separated them:
This exchange breaks from the purity of the "full town read, balls-to-the-wall, ride or die" mentality that I have in mind when I think of mafia strategies. At least they spent this time talking about it in a meaningful way.Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:00 amBecause I know I'm townie as fuck. It doesn't surprise me if other people see that too. If you or anyone else who may be a wolf wanna pocket me they can go right ahead, I enjoy staying alive as long as possible in games. As I said, I'm not a noobie and I don't have an inherent distrust over early townreads like someone in the middle of their mafia career might have after being burned. I like to go with the flow and seeing what happens first.ilario wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:57 amWhy aren’t you worried that I’m pocketing you ? Normally people who haven’t played with me always react super paranoid when I start to tr them very strongly out of the blueSon of Anarch wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:50 amI thought his catch up was pretty good. Why do you think it's dangerous to town lean him?
This is a smaller point, but if SoA is mafia it looks like someone who knows my ilario-killed-SPF theory is wrong.Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:54 pm What makes ya guys think ilario would poison Stayposi? Is there somethin' I'm missin' here?
tbh, my mafia drinking games have clothing swap roles. Need some way to keep the plebs interested.Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:25 pm
Naked mafia here we goooooo.
Too bad Good thing this isn't video mafia.
It's probably driven by the interaction when Ilario town read SoA and everything that followed? If I had to guess.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:09 pmOff-hand, yes. The only alternative would be to include Dizzy as mafia.NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:51 pm @JaggedJimmyJay
Our Ilario read is quite similar in that you have him not super likely with Marmot & SoA.
So I'm concluding that Ilario can only be mafia in the world:
Ilario - Dolby - G-Man - Johanna (Which I think was one of the potential worlds when I initially drew up the PoE).
So we agree on that?
I want to re-examine the ilario/SoA interaction. I can’t recall what I saw to green it.
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:35 pmI'm wondering...is there a point to telling us this?
[VOTE: Dolby] aubergine
These are the interactions that I think can be read into... I'm not sure which way to go on them for now, so maybe I'll just discard them entirely and consider that Falcon and Dolby have no associative / dissociative. I just wonder if Falcon is in-thread coaching. I know from experience playing on this site as mafia, my teammates would occasionally post legitimate gripes that they have about my play in the thread (and there have been a great many gripes to deal with).falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:06 amYou keep mentioning you haven't fully read yet. Why?Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:13 am I do not like the tendency among the consensus town/highposters that we just yeet the low-posters. I'm struggling to find any reads rn that aren't close to having the same effect as sort by postcount.
This has present from as early as the 200s, from Dizzy
Haven't even read fully yet, just feel the need to say this.
Also, Jo's D2 entrance isn't bad for them. No I will not elaborate
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:24 pm Dolby - I tend to jump quickly on top of things that I don't like in game play, like his "haven't been able to catch up", and I'm wrong far more often than I'm right.
One issue I'm seeing with Falcon on re-read is that he's not an analytical player, but his approach to Dolby's slot attempts to find a reason to not vote Dolby that I would normally expect from a player who's more. Like this is a read I would expect from a player like JJJ or myself if the former wasn't so set on believing that the site doesn't favor killing low clout players first, and the former less set on being a clown for prolonged periods...falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:43 amI vote for the players I think are scum. How am I supposed to know how I'm going to impact the game for a town win? That's a strange question. What's your answer to that question for yourself?Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:28 amIf I'm not mistaken, you're vote has been off main wagons on both days now. How are you going to impact the game to a town win? Right now Dolby and SOA have wagons on them, so if you were to choose one of them, which one would you vote?
Between Dolby and SOA, I'd like to pull a move I've recently seen from @Master Radishes tie em' up and let it rand.
Well, I don't really rank my reads, I just check whether no read exists, a single player gave me the read, or if both players gave me the same read. So if both players gave me the same read, I feel pretty confident about it, since then it doesn't rely on a single player doing something good or getting lucky. I'm playing with a couple other ideas at the same time as I try to narrow my PoE process with players I'm not familiar with / who refuse to play a PoE/mechanically minded game.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:40 pmUntil I can spend some time on my laptop and do proper research, I would stick to this. The only confident dissociation is from you. I have a few less confident dissociations (lighter green), perhaps similar to what you call “one-way”.NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:36 pmWhich interactions (Just give me players) are you clearing from being partnered with Ilario?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:35 pm @Sloonei if you want your time alive say the word. We’re at L-2.
Debatable
Which interactions (Just give me players) are you clearing from being partnered with Ilario?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:35 pm @Sloonei if you want your time alive say the word. We’re at L-2.
Which other players do you historically read well?ilario wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:32 pmI care about poe, just not yours lolNotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:30 pmWe've established you don't care about PoE, and that you can't read Lime Coke which I thought you had a "good" track record on. You've been wrong x2 and still mock my posts / my reads
He has enough town reads to solve the game, but doesn't believe in solving
We've established you don't care about PoE, and that you can't read Lime Coke which I thought you had a "good" track record on. You've been wrong x2 and still mock my posts / my reads
tbh, on 451 this day would be over by now.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:12 pm I very rarely play with this ties rule, so I’m open to theory. I believe it’s more common on 451.
I feel like the whole thread is anti-PoEDyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:09 pmI mean, IF you are right about both. If not, you just end up with one town less. I'd rather get one mafia first.NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:08 pm By the way, you're all wrong about ties, this is exactly one type of situation where ties can be useful to town because mafia decides ties. So you can theoretically validate 2 slots at once.
@JaggedJimmyJayNotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:03 pmIn other words, if JJJ is mafia, all of his teammates are people in his PoE, but he won't ever get around to killing them.NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:01 pm Mild concern, JJJ has about the same PoE as me, yet has thus far refused to vote anyone who I only see a 1-way dissociative from him.
Ilario being in your PoE or not has no baring on my statement.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:04 pm ilario would be our present sticking point, NAA. I’m considering the possibility, but will need to review things to really determine if I view him as likely mafia.
If your vote is meaningless, then don't waste our time with it.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:02 pmI think votes are meaningless until they end the day, so whatever.NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:01 pm Mild concern, JJJ has about the same PoE as me, yet has thus far refused to vote anyone who I only see a 1-way dissociative from him.
In other words, if JJJ is mafia, all of his teammates are people in his PoE, but he won't ever get around to killing them.NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:01 pm Mild concern, JJJ has about the same PoE as me, yet has thus far refused to vote anyone who I only see a 1-way dissociative from him.
Another point to add is that SoA despite his D1 activity hadn't dissociated himself very much from other players, which makes me think he was more concerned about posting than say people who were careless like JJJ and Sloonei.NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:33 am Dolby's perspective this game has been so stale. I'd say he's almost certainly mafia. Also contrarian for the sake of it, and parking vote whenever possible without having to justify anything
Ilario has only jumped in in cases where he had a clear direction / target / intention, also the misread on Lime Coke apparently is a big deal for him
G-Man's posting has been to prevent the narrowing of PoE
SoA just ceased to exist albeit, could be town
I would yeet the first two and expect it's 2/2, then I'd re-evaluate G-Man, SoA, Falcon, Johanna
Yeah, my bad I missed the post rescinding.Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:24 amAlmost. I'd replace ilario with g-man in my list.
That said, a poe of 4 right now doesn't feel right, especially after Lime Coke was a miss yesterday. It feels too easy. Like, if ilario, Dizzy, JJJ and myself are all town, how did we collectively get sig, and then that one wrong?
Ah, you could have lead with that.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:23 amI’m just making sure you’re not still relying on Dizzy’s rescinded claim.NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:22 amI'm not interested in a discussion unless a consensus is established prior. Diving into details is pointless, without the plan town loses.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:21 amWhy are these two 50/50?NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:14 am And then if we hit town, we take the 50/50 on:
G-Man
Johanna
I'm not interested in a discussion unless a consensus is established prior. Diving into details is pointless, without the plan town loses.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:21 amWhy are these two 50/50?NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:14 am And then if we hit town, we take the 50/50 on:
G-Man
Johanna
One might define that as the purpose of PoE...Johanna wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:51 amOne huge flaw in the charts is that low posters tend to have higher association potential simply because they haven't had many interactions on the thread, and those are I think how JollyJimmyJoe chose his colours.Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:49 amLol =pJohanna wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:45 amHe did make that chart yesterday...Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:35 amDo you have any anti-alignments that stands out to you? Or in other words, is there anyone you feel are mafia in most worlds? I'll take a look at this tonight myself.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:49 pm Town has exactly one more mischop available before we enter elimination phases (final X). The margin for error is tiny and we cannot afford to have even one member of the town faction say "whatever, I'll just die".
My mind doesn't work in charts tbh, I'm looking for more words. I want to know why the charts are what they are, cause I'm not in Jimmay's brain like Sloonmeister. But I'll do the same exercise later tonight.
I'm going to be afk most of the day, feel free to self-resolve any questions you might have via my vote.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:13 amWhat do you think of the potential for ilario and Dyslexicon to both be mafia?NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:28 amBased on what I just said, this gives Ilario 75% solve, the fact that he doesn't have it means he's mafia.
