The Syndicate

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:04 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:32 pm I'm just really annoyed it turned out in such a humiliating way with nothing we could have done.

Sometimes shit happens...when you hit me with the "you will never get me over" I knew both that you were a wolf and that you were right...without that track.

There was a point where I had switched from waiting to see if you moved off to trying to invite you into an argument tbh.

I was never planning on pushing you for a miselim like you thought, I was preparing for causing an argument with you if necessary lol.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:40 pm Ender kill was a bad choice tbh, it directly pointed to wurzel.

That was the point. We wanted him to claim vigilante to not just immediately die + give me a reason to flip my read on him.

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:37 pm

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:33 pm Cop and tracker, holy shit.

The cop was very weak. It only indicated whether the target had an ability, not if it was used, what it was, its alignment, etc.

I think the issue with that is that the cop would have mostly outed myself/Wurzel in the late game anyway.

I'm going to stop talking because I don't want to get unnecessarily toxic! Wp town.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:33 pm Cop and tracker, holy shit.

Yeah I was not expecting to get screwed over after an obvious town made a clearly legitimate investigative claim.

I'm just really annoyed it turned out in such a humiliating way with nothing we could have done.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:27 pm rest in peace wiml i thought you were town

Thanks! I wanted to N1 Tim lol. I had already anticipated his reads.

Wurzel's vigi claim was prepared in advance to survive him until D3 and get bussed.

We were not prepared for a second investigative role after Gavial claimed.

Felt like we lost to things we couldn't counterplay tbh. Probably not sticking around because dealing with the game is just getting me annoyed.

Game was over as soon as I got tracked. We were on track to winning before that point so it sucked.

Final post.

Ftr I want to say that I was holding back still lol.

I'm not defending myself here because there's no point. Good luck wolves have a good one.

Wpuld have been nice to know before I put hours into this game but ok sure.

Herm wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:55 am @Wiml

Wolf game on MU:

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ampionship

Thanks! I'll sit down and have a read later (having issues reading the ISO on TS for some reason).

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:54 am @Wiml whats your read on wurzel and how reliable is your read on wurzel historically

Was strong town but trending down a bit, now a town lean. Used to not really be able to read him but I've got him immediately as town in the last two games he's played from tone despite him being a LHF slot. He said the last game we played together that he expected me to have caught him immediately if he were a wolf. He has a very easy-to-wolfread playstyle normally.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:45 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:34 am

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:29 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:28 am

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:25 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:12 am Tim any wolf team with Wurzel on should have killed you anyway given how you manage to scumread him every game without fail.

I didn't actually scumread him. I just read Alison's ISO. I played day one (at least the amount of day one that I was in) very close to the vest. The wolves had no reason to kill me because the only thing they had on my intentions was a vague late vote on Alison.

It was obvious what your reads were going to be tbh.

Really?

What's my read on Falcon?

That was a polite way of insulting your reads lol.

And my response was a polite way of saying "you can't even FIND my reads."

So, back to Alison's ISO. The only fire she had was Wurzel. Even chopping HK she was just perfunctory about because it obviously had to be done. I don't see any way the wolf team could read her and think she was going for anyone but Wurzel, so if he is not a wolf why kill her? Closed setup there could easily be a doc to be dodged, and Alison is an obvious protect. They only N1K there if they really have to, IMO.

I just don't think alison is a bad kill for non-Wurzel teams though . She's probably the person I would have defaulted to myself if I had no strong opinions on the kill? I don't think worrying about a doc save is all that much of an issue in an odd numbers game tbh but even then alison wasn't an especially likely save anyway? And this is all under the condition that the wolf team comes to the conclusion that Wurzel is in danger from alison. I think it's just as likely that anybody else in her PoE kills her as Wurzel?

As much as I have him as town, I think there are a good reasons to scumread Wurzel (particularly his D2 - his reads list especially - has been pretty awful) but I don't think this is one of them.

Herm wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:37 am I have played a game here a while ago when I was town:

https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... =radiohead

Thanks! Would you mind linking me a wolf game so I can compare?

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:29 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:28 am

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:25 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:12 am Tim any wolf team with Wurzel on should have killed you anyway given how you manage to scumread him every game without fail.

I didn't actually scumread him. I just read Alison's ISO. I played day one (at least the amount of day one that I was in) very close to the vest. The wolves had no reason to kill me because the only thing they had on my intentions was a vague late vote on Alison.

It was obvious what your reads were going to be tbh.

Really?

What's my read on Falcon?

That was a polite way of insulting your reads lol.

Herm wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:28 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:19 am

Herm wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:14 am Need some reads from KZA.

Votes being spread this far is usually a bad sign.

@falcon45ca, @Wiml, why am I a scumread?

Your early-mid D1 was wolfy for reasons I already explained and when I was questioning you your answers were awful.

I can explain in more detail but I'll do so later.

My answers were awful lol, but I'm still town. They were bad because I'm not always consistent with my thoughts lol.

Yeah that's what I meant!

Do you have any town games you can link here please?

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:25 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:12 am Tim any wolf team with Wurzel on should have killed you anyway given how you manage to scumread him every game without fail.

I didn't actually scumread him. I just read Alison's ISO. I played day one (at least the amount of day one that I was in) very close to the vest. The wolves had no reason to kill me because the only thing they had on my intentions was a vague late vote on Alison.

It was obvious what your reads were going to be tbh.

Half tempted to vote Wurzel so Tim actually plays the game tomorrow.

Herm wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:14 am Need some reads from KZA.

Votes being spread this far is usually a bad sign.

@falcon45ca, @Wiml, why am I a scumread?

Your early-mid D1 was wolfy for reasons I already explained and when I was questioning you your answers were awful.

I can explain in more detail but I'll do so later.

Tim any wolf team with Wurzel on should have killed you anyway given how you manage to scumread him every game without fail.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:00 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:52 am But to respond to that post, I don't think the alison kill spews Wurzel a wolf at all tbh.

The only reason Alison backed off Wurzel was your shielding and HK being the obvious chop anyway. Your shield was a one day, and HK is gone. Wurzel was her death tunnel du jour, based on her ISO. If Wurzel isn't a wolf the wolves let her live to kill him.

Like sure, that's possible, but I don't think it's any more likely than any other wolf alison scumread killing her.

Also, Wurzel is LHF, I don't think the wolves need alison's help to miselim that slot honestly.

You're confusing "possible" with "this is the case" and it's definitely not.

But to respond to that post, I don't think the alison kill spews Wurzel a wolf at all tbh.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:47 am

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:06 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:00 pm I haven't been impressed with KZA's posting. orangecrush completely dipped from the game thread.

My POE is something like: Herm, LoMo, KZA, orangecrush

Which is 3 slankers but I'm not getting bad vibes from the active posters so I think that's okay

Still skeeved out by a couple of nook's posts but his later days will be more telling probably. Wurzel shielded by Wiml and Creature shielded by nook for now so I'm excluding them for the moment, will circle back around to them later.

wanna sheep someone on this i think

probably herm or orange but thats not actively based on my reads i will admit

If you are gonna sheep Alison then we should kill Wurzel. She let Wiml shield her off day one, but I am 90% sure that's where she would be today, and I think the wolves knew that.

The funny thing was that I don't think I strongly town read Wurzel until after she made that reads list.

After some time to review, I'm still leaning towards Wurzel being town (especially given his meta of often making really bad posts as town - sorry Wurzel!).

Yeah his D2 has been awful (although I can excuse some of his clear lack of effort / WIM given D1 events and the general tone of the thread, I think his has been a particularly sharp decline) but I think there are a few posts he made D1 that I don't think he would be able to replicate as a wolf (most importantly his case on Ender - he's not the type of player who I would expect that from if he had TMI that Ender was town). I think his tone is also on point (which is important because the times he wolfed in the past, he was completely off tonally and that isn't the case here).

I'm not quite as confident as I was at SoD but I think the narrative of Wurzel being town and just being lazy / disinterested after D1's events also fits better in this case.

orangecrush wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:20 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:59 am How far behind are you with catching up orange? Do you need cliffs?

That would be nice so that I can read them at work

Got it. Do you want them from game start or are you caught up to a certain point?

Happy with orange/NANOOK wagons currently.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:12 am

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:00 pm So here are my initial thoughts and reads:

Finding the vibe here very different to MU. If MU is like afternoon tea at Claridge’s, this place is like a pool bar coming up to closing time

WIML – Feels pretty towny as usual (although he is generally towny). Likely to resolve later on
Esooa slot – Lean town. Esooa gets more wound up when she is town
Alison – getting good vibes so far (although I haven’t seen her wolf yet)

HK – 3p as claimed

Ender – several of his posts have pinged me but I am not quite sure enough to scum read yet

Falcon – early town PR claiming is anti-town
Gavial slot – his behaviour was massively anti-town
Nanook – His claimed PR sounds incredibly suss to me (do day cops even exist?) Feels like a good way to get a cheap town read

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:02 pm My own answer:

Top 3 town

Alison - Consistently good vibes from her.
Esooa slot - Esooa gets more wound up by things when town. Reminds me of how she played in our last game together when she was also town.
WIML - Feels pretty towny (as usual)

Top 3 scum

EnderWiggin - Has done nothing to convince me that my scum read was wrong. I strongly feel that it was a scumslip. Has also gone below the radar a bit today having been such a heavy poster yesterday
Gavial slot - Gavial's play was damaging both in terms of derailing the thread and the toxicity. I do like Ydrasse's first post but they need to do a lot to get this slot out of my POE
Nanook - I don't like the fake claims and feel his play has been scummy so far (although that is often the case for his d1s)

Given these earlier posts I think Wurzel's progressions are actually fine. I'm more concerned that he's suddenly forgotten how to explain his reads? I thought maybe this was something I glossed over earlier that he was struggling with throughout but apparently not.

I'm going to wait for his response I think.

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:00 pm So here are my initial thoughts and reads:

Finding the vibe here very different to MU. If MU is like afternoon tea at Claridge’s, this place is like a pool bar coming up to closing time

WIML – Feels pretty towny as usual (although he is generally towny). Likely to resolve later on
Esooa slot – Lean town. Esooa gets more wound up when she is town
Alison – getting good vibes so far (although I haven’t seen her wolf yet)

HK – 3p as claimed

Ender – several of his posts have pinged me but I am not quite sure enough to scum read yet

Falcon – early town PR claiming is anti-town
Gavial slot – his behaviour was massively anti-town
Nanook – His claimed PR sounds incredibly suss to me (do day cops even exist?) Feels like a good way to get a cheap town read

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:02 pm My own answer:

Top 3 town

Alison - Consistently good vibes from her.
Esooa slot - Esooa gets more wound up by things when town. Reminds me of how she played in our last game together when she was also town.
WIML - Feels pretty towny (as usual)

Top 3 scum

EnderWiggin - Has done nothing to convince me that my scum read was wrong. I strongly feel that it was a scumslip. Has also gone below the radar a bit today having been such a heavy poster yesterday
Gavial slot - Gavial's play was damaging both in terms of derailing the thread and the toxicity. I do like Ydrasse's first post but they need to do a lot to get this slot out of my POE
Nanook - I don't like the fake claims and feel his play has been scummy so far (although that is often the case for his d1s)

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:24 am Here is my updated reads list

Duskfall - lock town
Tim - town (through gritted teeth) mainly due to Essoa
WIML - still towny. One of the main players driving the game forward
Lost Monkey - lean town. Getting good vibes from him
Nanook - lean town. Getting much better vibes from him today

Herm - null - has gone completely AWOL
Marmot - null - giving a day pass as just subbed in
Creature - null
Orangecrush - null - a priority to ISO this evening as currently under threat

Falcon - lean scum - bad vibes but need to ISO properly
SIG - lean scum - didn’t like them refusing to provide reads (not helpful)
Ydrasse - My gut strongly says this slot is scum but I am hesitant to vote here because of the PR claim.

I’ll do some reading up and will vote later but it’s currently between the bottom 4

I've got some reservations about this list.

Wurzel, you have 8 players listed as either null or that you're reading because of "vibes". Could you go into more detail about what you mean by vibes their please? Or explain each "vibes" read in more detail please?

lost monkey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:36 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:01 am LoMo can you talk me through the explanations for a couple of reads of your choice please?

sure which ones?

Anything you haven't talked about in length but feel strongly about please!

Hello I tripped and fell into nettles what did I miss?

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:02 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:59 am Dusk, where are you leaning towards voting today currently?

im kinda unsure im looking back towards dead players reads rn i kinda wanna necro sheep since im unsure

Yeah, I get that. Want to talk over anybody with me?

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:01 am this game is feeling absolutely awful still btw

Definitely. And it feels like none of the PoE is bothering to play.

LoMo can you talk me through the explanations for a couple of reads of your choice please?

I'm pretty sure a Herm wagon is getting no steam today so I'm fine to solve around that somewhat.

I think his reactions to my questions yesterday (particularly when he said he forgot his read changed on the reads list he made) was awful though and shows that he wasn't putting any real concentration into them.

Dusk, where are you leaning towards voting today currently?

Wurzel I'll look at again if we get another town flip today but he's definitely not the move right now.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:39 am Nanook's ISO isn't bad, there's just not much there that I think is AI for him.

His discrediting of Gavial's claim is probably the most interesting part of his ISO.

Nanook, would you mind explaining in more detail why Gavial's claim is >rand wolf from him? Particularly wrt when this has happened before?

Nanook's ISO isn't bad, there's just not much there that I think is AI for him.

@Herm where are you today?

How far behind are you with catching up orange? Do you need cliffs?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:07 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:04 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:49 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:46 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:44 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:41 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:38 pm

Yeah I'm not looking to Gav's slot here. However I'm also not looking at Herm or LoMo right now either.

Bah, then you're of no help to me.



I like teamwork tho, so what's your POE look like?

I wanna kill in Wurzel, Wiml, and Nanook.

I never go over this game and you know it.

Probably not today, but a Wurzel red flip would make tomorrow a serious test of your mettle.

Like, yeah, but I don't think Wurzel does flip red. If that happens then sure we can cross that bridge but I think he's way into his town meta right now. His tone is impeccable, he's doing everything I would expect from him as town currently and he's clearly trying to solve, even if that's in a relatively basic way. I've seen his wolf game and it honestly wasn't at all comparable to how he says his town games.

But I highly doubt I'm going over this game. I'm blatantly obvious town here.

His early posts were trying to solve. Lately he's just asking other their reads, giving no real conclusions or pushes based off that I can see

I mean yeah that's right. I don't think it's necessarily wolfy but it depends a lot on context of what he was trying to achieve I think.

@Don Wurzeloni when you're next around would you mind saying what your goal was wrt asking a lot of questions on their reads?

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:49 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:46 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:44 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:41 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:38 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:33 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:23 pm

I mean that if you flat out don't read 90% of his posts you will be better informed, 95% better yet.

Not that I am above doing a little claim bullshitting myself, but I would certainly never take any action based on a Gavial claim.

I get what you're saying, but that's why we flip players, to find out who's telling the truth and who's not.

I'd rather let that slot resolve itself for now, I'm more interested in a Herm/LoMo flip this RD

Yeah I'm not looking to Gav's slot here. However I'm also not looking at Herm or LoMo right now either.

Bah, then you're of no help to me.



I like teamwork tho, so what's your POE look like?

I wanna kill in Wurzel, Wiml, and Nanook.

I never go over this game and you know it.

Probably not today, but a Wurzel red flip would make tomorrow a serious test of your mettle.

Like, yeah, but I don't think Wurzel does flip red. If that happens then sure we can cross that bridge but I think he's way into his town meta right now. His tone is impeccable, he's doing everything I would expect from him as town currently and he's clearly trying to solve, even if that's in a relatively basic way. I've seen his wolf game and it honestly wasn't at all comparable to how he says his town games.

But I highly doubt I'm going over this game. I'm blatantly obvious town here.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:44 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:41 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:38 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:33 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:23 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:20 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:17 pm

Ignoring Gavial seems like it should be NAI...

What do you mean?


Gav hard claimed. Maf ignored it by not MKing the slot.


Gav claimed w/ no real reason when I called him out for having a wolfy attitude. Then he lied about it. Check it out for yourself

I mean that if you flat out don't read 90% of his posts you will be better informed, 95% better yet.

Not that I am above doing a little claim bullshitting myself, but I would certainly never take any action based on a Gavial claim.

I get what you're saying, but that's why we flip players, to find out who's telling the truth and who's not.

I'd rather let that slot resolve itself for now, I'm more interested in a Herm/LoMo flip this RD

Yeah I'm not looking to Gav's slot here. However I'm also not looking at Herm or LoMo right now either.

Bah, then you're of no help to me.



I like teamwork tho, so what's your POE look like?

I wanna kill in Wurzel, Wiml, and Nanook.

I never go over this game and you know it.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:42 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:40 pm I still have really no opinion on LoMo from what I've seen. They're probably the player I look at next?

Give us some hard takes, cuz you seem kinda waffley

Duskfall/Tim/Ydrasse/Wurzel/Creature/You town.
sig/LC very weakly town.
Herm wolf. Rest of PoE is probably Nanook and LoMo/orange from having no read there.

I still have really no opinion on LoMo from what I've seen. They're probably the player I look at next?

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:34 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:33 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:32 pm I think we have left:

1. Falcon45ca :: ISO
2. Herm :: ISO
4. Duskfall :: ISO
5. Don Wurzeloni :: ISO
6. Creature :: ISO
7. orangecrush :: ISO
9. NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME :: ISO
10. Esooa :: ISO Timsup2nothin :: ISO
11. Gavial :: ISO Ydrasse :: ISO
13. Dolby :: ISO sig :: ISO
14. Wiml :: ISO
16. lost monkey :: ISO
17. Long Con :: ISO

Why Herm?

Gavial has said Herm is town alongside me and I know he was right hollowkatt wasn't town and I know he's right I am town so I think I can trust him. I've been townreading them the same way I've townread Duskfall and Duskfall happened to be town so I think I can also trust myself.

Gavial was incredibly wrong on hollowkatt and in the nicest way possible he pulled that Herm read out of his rear. Will you explain to me why you personally think Herm is town please?