The Syndicate

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:32 pm I think we have left:

1. Falcon45ca :: ISO
2. Herm :: ISO
4. Duskfall :: ISO
5. Don Wurzeloni :: ISO
6. Creature :: ISO
7. orangecrush :: ISO
9. NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME :: ISO
10. Esooa :: ISO Timsup2nothin :: ISO
11. Gavial :: ISO Ydrasse :: ISO
13. Dolby :: ISO sig :: ISO
14. Wiml :: ISO
16. lost monkey :: ISO
17. Long Con :: ISO

Why Herm?

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:28 pm Gonna be mad if Esooa is mafia after all that.

I'm pretty sure she isn't.

Checked and I think I'm still confident on Esooa being town.

For some reason my phone isn't allowing me to read past the first page of ISOs but I'm happy there still.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:20 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:17 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:15 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:14 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:12 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:05 pm Lol I wonder what game this is reminding me of.

Synlabs?

Yeah. The dayvig and the somewhat controversial investigative role claim (as well as possible vig on both teams).

Any takers for being my mason?

How would you have time to mason chat with me while you are in wolf chat trying to figure out how to save Wurzel?

I made a pregame promise to bus Wurzel if we randed wolf together!

The only player I know of that really follows through on pregame intentions is me. Besides, conditional intentions are bad news. You need to have an intention and then follow through no matter the rand.

Yeah in all seriousness I wouldn't have actually followed through with the bus. The joke was worth it though!

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:18 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:17 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:15 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:14 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:12 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:05 pm Lol I wonder what game this is reminding me of.

Synlabs?

Yeah. The dayvig and the somewhat controversial investigative role claim (as well as possible vig on both teams).

Any takers for being my mason?

How would you have time to mason chat with me while you are in wolf chat trying to figure out how to save Wurzel?

I made a pregame promise to bus Wurzel if we randed wolf together!

Well, how is it going?

Not very well, particularly on the randing wolf front (which is a shame because this is the last game I'm going to play before Champs).

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:15 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:14 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:12 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:05 pm Lol I wonder what game this is reminding me of.

Synlabs?

Yeah. The dayvig and the somewhat controversial investigative role claim (as well as possible vig on both teams).

Any takers for being my mason?

How would you have time to mason chat with me while you are in wolf chat trying to figure out how to save Wurzel?

I made a pregame promise to bus Wurzel if we randed wolf together!

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:15 pm Controversial investigative role claim being Gavial/Tim?

Being whatever Gavial claimed yeah.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:12 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:05 pm Lol I wonder what game this is reminding me of.

Synlabs?

Yeah. The dayvig and the somewhat controversial investigative role claim (as well as possible vig on both teams).

Any takers for being my mason?

Dusk is all but lock town now from that shot I think.

Crackpot theory: the second kill was from a lost wolf vig and that balances the existence of a 3p also in the game.

Lol I wonder what game this is reminding me of.

Tim, what is your reason for scumreading me?

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:20 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:57 am Currently my PoE is something like:

Herm
Nanook
KZA

After that I would be looking at sig and long con. There's a pretty large gap in towniness above that point.

Who are your top three town reads right now?

Right now I would say my top 3 are Tim, Ydrasse and you.

orangecrush wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:53 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:31 am

orangecrush wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:19 am wurzel seems like a wolfy town leader

Would you explain what you mean by this please?

pretty hard to explain other than It looks like he is trying to solve the game but i don't really trust him

Do you mean his tone possibly?

orangecrush wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:19 am wurzel seems like a wolfy town leader

Would you explain what you mean by this please?

Duskfall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:18 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:49 am The thread being much less active worries me that the wolf team is not feeling under much pressure right now. I'd like to hear a lot more from half of the game still.

we arent into america time yet

Fair but activity has completely died down still. I know I had to do a lot of backreading after I went to bed during D1 (although admittedly the highest posters dying might have something to do with that... the second highest poster alive is Herm I think lol).

The thread being much less active worries me that the wolf team is not feeling under much pressure right now. I'd like to hear a lot more from half of the game still.

I think Dusk admitting to forgetting a read when given an opportunity to fake read progression is probably towny? Like I know if I were a wolf asked the question I just asked and had forgotten about revoking my read on Herm, I would try to save face / fake read progression to look better instead of just owning up to it? So I think the honesty of that in this case when that honesty is unnecessary is towny.

Maybe that's a weak argument but Dusk didn't answer that the way I would expect a wolf to.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:34 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:16 am

Duskfall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:22 am Oh also would not kill herm rn they are slight town

Would you explain this one please? Particularly, what made you progress from town lean -> dropping the town lean -> slight town here again?

Oh i dropped it because they were being underwhelming i guess but then actually forgot i dropped it for them being underwhelming because usually i just let my reads sit until someone does something to warrant it changing unless its like end game. I think early they were tonally town/seemed to be trying to solve when i first pointed it out, which puts them ahead of others in the game for me in terms of towniness but its not strong at all and i can see why others are pushing them, would still like to see more but would not vote them rn because they were kinda towny early whereas others have not been towny at all.

Ah ok I can understand that, thank you!

Duskfall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:22 am Oh also would not kill herm rn they are slight town

Would you explain this one please? Particularly, what made you progress from town lean -> dropping the town lean -> slight town here again?

Duskfall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:01 am I've posted reads since that one you quoted but currently I'm at

Falcon kza should die soonish

I think you've been towny in thread, I think Nanook is like slight town, glavial spot is still town

Im leaving esooa for now since they are getting widespread town reads and other people probably know the slot better than me, though I still dislike esooas play and if they are town then I think they were just being overly edgey for no reason.

Creature long con and Tim are all people ive no interest killing anytime soon currently

Wurzel I'm stuck on they are a hard read for me to make currently even though I feel like I should have a read there I kinda am still null

Thanks! Yeah I'm pretty good at reading both of Esooa/Wurzel usually so I can tell you that I think both slots are pretty solidly town right now if that helps.

Dusk has anything changed for you at all since the last time you posted your reads?

I don't have a strong read on Dusk any more lol.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:22 am Ok my D1 townies:
Alison
Ender
Hollokat
----
Glavial
Herm

Oh the gap is not scumreads but weaker townreads. I get it now.

I thought you saying "Gavial is probably wrong town" and then you scumreading Gavial in the next post was so random and non-agendary it was surely town indicative.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:16 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:08 am I don't think wolf-Dusk says "good chance Glabial is an incorrect towny" then scumreads Glavial on the next (reads) post without explaining it. I think the way they went about that read and how they described it in the next post shows a genuine progression of thought.

i never scumread glavial btw

That makes way more sense! Lol.

I'll link the post I meant.

I don't think wolf-Dusk says "good chance Glabial is an incorrect towny" then scumreads Glavial on the next (reads) post without explaining it. I think the way they went about that read and how they described it in the next post shows a genuine progression of thought.

I'm discarding the mostly inactive players from that list.

Currently my PoE is something like:

Herm
Nanook
KZA

After that I would be looking at sig and long con. There's a pretty large gap in towniness above that point.

After thinking some stuff through I'm more confident in my Wurzel townread too.

Orange/LoMo/KZA are null slots for me and those are the ones I'm going to look at more today.

GTH Dusk is town.

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:22 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:18 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:54 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:39 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:36 pm Thinking falcon is prob wolf here. Been mostly pushing for town only.

How the hell do you know who's town?

As fair I have seen, you were on Herm, Ydrasse, Duskfall and me and I believe we're all town here so you've been mostly pushing town.

Oh, cuz I'm not pushing your reads, then I must be scum right?


That's not a towny mindset.


You have no reason to be so certain they're town, and even if they are, what you expect all town to only push your wolf reads?

Okay hopefully Gavial/Ydrasse I don't need to explain because they already had that whole fiasco and claimed PR in a position wolves wouldn't have any reason to claim.

Herm was Gavial's townread and I'm willing to trust him there because Gavial correctly found hollowkatt was non-town. I think I also had particularly seen towniness from Herm.

Duskfall is probably my least solid townread out of the three, but I still have a feeling they're just town here and their posts didn't struck me as wolf.

You shouldn't sheep Gavial's reads at all. I know hollowkatt quite well (he plays or spectates all the games on my home community) and the things Gavial cased him on were honestly all NAI or town-indicative. The case was pure luck and while I'm glad we got an anti-town 3p out of it, it doesn't make the rest of his reads any better.

The best player at reading HK in this player list is by far Tim and Tim thought HK was still actually town.

Tl;dr Don't sheep Gavial's reads just because one of them was randomly semi-correct for the wrong reasons.

@orangecrush are you caught up yet at all?

And yeah currently agree with the thinking that Ender was a vig shot.

Tim's slot is still obvious town thanks to Esooa and I'm fairly confident still in Gavial's performance yesterday being town for reasons I explained back then. falcon is town from the early VT claim. Wurzel is way in town meta now. I'm still also thinking that Creature's entrance is just not something a wolf would ever choose to try to replicate (although he's the person In least confident on out of everyone here). Still think Herm is a wolf.

I have reads on everyone else but they're less concrete so that's where I'm looking into next.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:22 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:22 pm Please nobody be too harsh on Wurzel though, he's a fairly new player still and I believe this is his first non-CFC game.

This isn't directed at anybody nor do I think this is happening but if you see an issue with his play please give him constructive criticism!

He played an mu hydra iirc

Well yeah but that was in the CFC subforum which is all CFC players so I was still counting it as CFC there.

sig wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:43 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:09 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:07 pm Was Sig always voting sleep? Just noticed it now.

A quick check suggests they weren't.

Thought it would be fun, plus just subbed in so why not?

If there was a tie or closer conversations going on I'd probably have dug deeper and picked someone, but it seems like a runaway right now.

I mean I don't have an issue with the vote, I was more interested if you were around honestly.

Please nobody be too harsh on Wurzel though, he's a fairly new player still and I believe this is his first non-CFC game.

This isn't directed at anybody nor do I think this is happening but if you see an issue with his play please give him constructive criticism!

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:11 pm Did Don really suggest lynching randomly is better than lynching potential scumsiding 3p?

Did he?

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:07 pm Was Sig always voting sleep? Just noticed it now.

A quick check suggests they weren't.

Was Sig always voting sleep? Just noticed it now.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:00 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:55 pm I also think the claim timing was very towny (particularly in the heat of the moment - it flowed very genuinely and I don't think he would have had time to check with wolfmates before claiming if it were fake) even if the claim itself is bad.

There's an assumption here that Gavial would check with packmates about anything. Given that as town he is absolutely NOT any sort of 'team player' this assumption may be bad.

I think you're right tbh. I still don't see it as fitting the "calculated deathtunnel" narrative though? Like it's not something that would come to my mind to do as a wolf in that situation as a million years and achieved nothing.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:59 pm @Wiml
this post is bad

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:31 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:30 am Why would you claim that???? You wefe obviously tpwn anyway!

Because I can and I didn’t care.
There was some wolf oh I can’t remember that wolves name anymore but that wolf definitely made me claim it due to extreme annoyance.

ruminate on that one for a while the next time you want to think about whether or not the claim timing was towy

It's a really bad post but I think it fits better into the narrative of Gavial being town still.

I find it really hard to read that as anything but an emotional fueled outburst tbh and I think that's something that's much more likely to happen from an emotionally invested town instead of a wolf who is in a calculated deathtunnel to try to appear twtbaw.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:52 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:46 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:27 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:26 am

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:24 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:23 am gavial I am putting you on ignore

Did you even look at my HK case?
OMG your the most likely player to die tonight due to the massive amount of town reads your getting and you can’t even actually try and vote off scum.
OML.

Pretty wolfy attitude IMO

Oh FUCK THIS SHIT.
I hard claim PR and we will see if your VT claim is real or not tonight.
Kill me bro I double doggy dare yeah!

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:31 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:30 am Why would you claim that???? You wefe obviously tpwn anyway!

Because I can and I didn’t care.
There was some wolf oh I can’t remember that wolves name anymore but that wolf definitely made me claim it due to extreme annoyance.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:39 am

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:31 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:30 am Why would you claim that???? You wefe obviously tpwn anyway!

Because I can and I didn’t care.
There was some wolf oh I can’t remember that wolves name anymore but that wolf definitely made me claim it due to extreme annoyance.

What? I didn't make you claim anything, you did that all by yourself and with no real reason to do so. Don't put that shit on me, own your posts.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:42 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:39 am

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:31 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:30 am Why would you claim that???? You wefe obviously tpwn anyway!

Because I can and I didn’t care.
There was some wolf oh I can’t remember that wolves name anymore but that wolf definitely made me claim it due to extreme annoyance.

What? I didn't make you claim anything, you did that all by yourself and with no real reason to do so. Don't put that shit on me, own your posts.

Holy shit bro no need for this external reaction!
I wasn’t talking about you.

Who reads this and thinks Gav's telling the truth re: his PR claim?

He does so with a knee jerk post after I called him wolfy, then explains he did so to Wiml cuz he was forced to by a wolf.


When I call him out on that, he denies it. How is this towny?

Because it's Gavial? Like, that's clearly GI, but not necessarily AI.

Someday I am gonna take a bunch of post quotes and remove the names and I bet a whole bunch of people will be able to get accurate reads...on who is who.

You really should!

[VOTE: Hollowkatt] aubergine

Well played and I feel bad about the situation.

Herm wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:28 pm TOP 3 TOWN READS

Falcon - - - Claim with no pressure

Gavial/Ydrasse - - - Scumhunted right out of the bat, confident in reads, other posts feels like town, confident in reading me as town!!!

Wiml - - - questions me why I townread him makes me townread him even more, scum would not question other players townreading them, I didn't have a read on him when he voted me though

TOP 3 SCUM READS

Wurzel - - - catched up, explains why he had to catch up, says he's going to post reads, does this, disappears. Rinse, repeat. He was scumread by Alison pretty early, bit not sure if it's distancing or genuine yet. Sounds like Wurzel is scum to me though.

KZA - - - I haven't seen much town posts from her yet so slotting her down in the scum category for now. She did go to a party that she didn't enjoy and was confused by my post on Dolby at one point, but not sure if that is wolfy or nonwolfy.

Dolby/Sig - - - Probably scum

Would you explain Sig to me please?

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:17 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:09 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:07 pm I think if gavial was town he would, or at least should, have been more interested in engaging me in conversation instead of slamming the wolf button and then plugging his ears going "la la la I can't hear the wolf arguing". If he thinks I'm wolfy why not bait me into giving reads on people. He has to know that if I'm actually a wolf here doing what he did is a great way for me to say "i've made mins, at worst I've spewed gavial town, time to stfu and peace out"

As much as I believe that Gavial is town, I want to add that I did tell him that pushing you the way he did would not get any sort of useful reaction from you.

That being said, I think it's more of a case of him not caring if he derailed the thread more than actively attempting to do so tbh.

obvs it's wifom, but watching that play out I flip-flopped between "no wolf does this, it's too brazen, too out of control" and then back to "a savvy wolf maybe tries this because it's beyond twtbaw and into 'what the fuck is even happening'"
It's funny to me that he was fundamentally right, I'm not town, but also he's fundamentally wrong, I'm not a wolf.
Nor would I hesitate to make the posts he wolf read as town, which is part of the reason I got upset with him.

I think Hannibal Lecter said it best in the Rap Battle vs Jack the Ripper: "I don't mind that you're naughty Jack, I hate that you're sloppy", and this play was just sloppy.

Yeah I understand the point of view you're coming from here (and I agree even after your claim that pretty much everything Gavial cased you on was NAI at worst honestly which I know is getting brushed under the carpet but I feel bad about it and even if the result wasn't actually bad gameplay-wise I should have shut it down sooner and it leaves a bad taste).

I think what it boils down to for me is: was Gavial aware of his impact on the thread / being anti-town and actively trying to play the twtbaw game or was he so tunneled into his own world that he was oblivious to other people's reactions before his posting hit critical mass and he was obliged to follow through? I think it's the latter option, I was grilling him pretty hard at points and I never detected any hesitancy or self awareness that I would think I would see from a wolf in that situation. Like, it's hard to explain in words but at the time there was no gut ping that made me think there was an agenda behind the push - even though you were one of my top towns and Gavial was mostly just a lean town at the time - that would usually make me suspect there was a fake tunnel there? Especially given I already hated the logic of his case and it was super anti-town and it was on a strong TR I wasn't seeing anything that wasn't airtight in terms of self-awareness that he was anti-town or whatever even though I started off really sceptical.

That devolved into a bit of a flood of words but the tl;dr of what I'm trying to say is that I tried really hard to look for TMI of being self aware of his behaviour and I couldn't find anything that resembled that after repeated probing so I think he's just town.

I also think the claim timing was very towny (particularly in the heat of the moment - it flowed very genuinely and I don't think he would have had time to check with wolfmates before claiming if it were fake) even if the claim itself is bad. I also think ydrasse would have just rescinded the claim upon subbing in if it was fake honestly.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:10 pm I mean it was partly a joke I'm not really convinced it was a scumslip

But I do think he's mafia so idrc

Yeah this makes more sense to me, thanks.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:09 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:07 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:06 pm Interesting that you're lumping me in with two people I scumread (one of them on a sheep of you!)

You were serious? I thought it was sarcasm lol.

No that one wasn't a joke I do think ender is mafia

Oh lol. Do you buy Wurzel's case or was it for another reason and you just went with sheeping him?

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:07 pm I think if gavial was town he would, or at least should, have been more interested in engaging me in conversation instead of slamming the wolf button and then plugging his ears going "la la la I can't hear the wolf arguing". If he thinks I'm wolfy why not bait me into giving reads on people. He has to know that if I'm actually a wolf here doing what he did is a great way for me to say "i've made mins, at worst I've spewed gavial town, time to stfu and peace out"

As much as I believe that Gavial is town, I want to add that I did tell him that pushing you the way he did would not get any sort of useful reaction from you.

That being said, I think it's more of a case of him not caring if he derailed the thread more than actively attempting to do so tbh.