The Syndicate

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:28 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:26 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:22 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:51 pm And I've made it 100% clear where I'm at that TMI accusations D1 are completely meaningless with no flips.
TMI can only be seen in hindsight after flip/s, not before flip/s.
I strongly disagree with that assertion mostly because I've been caught and chopped for D1 TMI before. It's about how the player approaches the other slot(s) in question, not about the flips
Clearly we don't have the same experience with TMI here.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of times I've been accused of TMi, is when I'm town.
by other townies or by baddies?

By other townies. Mafia almost never accuse people of TMI from experience.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:14 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:34 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:32 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:23 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:13 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:12 pm jack should always flip here and i think he might've tmi'ed sig town as creature or someone implied and had my general worldview be incorrect, either way i'm gonna do more town leadery stuff this cycle

i'm gonna reread d1 tonight

@CRichard what's your read on me/creature/dunya
You town
Creature town
Dunya town.
Could you elaborate on dunya
I would imagine a world where lucy, dunya, and creature are all town is a world where one of them dies last night.
Which one do you think is mostly likely bad in that case?
can everyone answer this, thanks

GTH I'd say Dunya. Mainly because my reasons to have Dunya as town are the weakest out of you three.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:22 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:51 pm And I've made it 100% clear where I'm at that TMI accusations D1 are completely meaningless with no flips.
TMI can only be seen in hindsight after flip/s, not before flip/s.
I strongly disagree with that assertion mostly because I've been caught and chopped for D1 TMI before. It's about how the player approaches the other slot(s) in question, not about the flips

Clearly we don't have the same experience with TMI here.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of times I've been accused of TMi, is when I'm town.

It's an educated assumption, based on how mafia tends to react with town/town or town/mafia wagons. Which we won't know either way without flipping Jack.
I had a game offsite, in which flipping the counterwagon to mafia even though they were town would have probably resulted in a town win.

And I've made it 100% clear where I'm at that TMI accusations D1 are completely meaningless with no flips.
TMI can only be seen in hindsight after flip/s, not before flip/s.

Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:38 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:25 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:23 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:21 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:14 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:10 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:08 pm Ya know if you ISO CR and do a word search for "Jack", you'll get 20 matches...and almost none of them have anything to do at all with actually reading Jack or engaging with him
Ahem I voted Jack before EOD1 and am voting them now. That should make it pretty obvious Jack is in my PoE.
Yes, but why? Your vote for him now seems to be based off "Let's get the CW to green flip"...and I'm just wondering if there's actually something behind your SR of Jack beyond that.

I thought he was fairly towny last RD
Is that right? Are you claiming info on Jack that clears them?
And now he's fishing for roles

[VOTE: CR] aubergine
That has to be the worst reason to vote me by far.
Did you catch the FoL townplay virus by chance?
You have been discrediting a lot of people suspicions on you like this. I remember you said someone claiming you were TMI'ing someone town and you said it was a bad reason because we didn't have a chance to use night abilities yet, which completely ignored that mafia knows who is town. I find it alarming how you try to shut down people's suspicions instead of at least trying to explain yourself

Ahem I have explained myself. It's your problem if you refuse to read my explanations.

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:27 pm Oh man I got low motivation for today

but yeah I think Jack should be the lynch to resolve the wagons and also I found Jack pretty wolfy last EOD

I am also concerned about CRichard (or was it someone else I missed?) moving his vote off Jack near EOD, but I am not sure how damning that is because idk if CRichard would do that as wolf when that would heavily incriminate him

Good look for Creature, as if they're mafia they would probably just go with lunch my slot train for voting on a mislunch.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:32 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:23 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:13 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:12 pm jack should always flip here and i think he might've tmi'ed sig town as creature or someone implied and had my general worldview be incorrect, either way i'm gonna do more town leadery stuff this cycle

i'm gonna reread d1 tonight

@CRichard what's your read on me/creature/dunya
You town
Creature town
Dunya town.
Could you elaborate on dunya
I would imagine a world where lucy, dunya, and creature are all town is a world where one of them dies last night.

To me, that's nearly guaranteed especially if Jack is mafia.

Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:23 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:13 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:12 pm jack should always flip here and i think he might've tmi'ed sig town as creature or someone implied and had my general worldview be incorrect, either way i'm gonna do more town leadery stuff this cycle

i'm gonna reread d1 tonight

@CRichard what's your read on me/creature/dunya
You town
Creature town
Dunya town.
Could you elaborate on dunya

Their posts don't come across as mafia making stuff up. Especially the one on Scraggy being a town forced to claim 3p, feels too outlandish to make if they were mafia.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:23 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:21 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:14 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:10 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:08 pm Ya know if you ISO CR and do a word search for "Jack", you'll get 20 matches...and almost none of them have anything to do at all with actually reading Jack or engaging with him
Ahem I voted Jack before EOD1 and am voting them now. That should make it pretty obvious Jack is in my PoE.
Yes, but why? Your vote for him now seems to be based off "Let's get the CW to green flip"...and I'm just wondering if there's actually something behind your SR of Jack beyond that.

I thought he was fairly towny last RD
Is that right? Are you claiming info on Jack that clears them?
And now he's fishing for roles

[VOTE: CR] aubergine

That has to be the worst reason to vote me by far.
Did you catch the FoL townplay virus by chance?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:14 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:10 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:08 pm Ya know if you ISO CR and do a word search for "Jack", you'll get 20 matches...and almost none of them have anything to do at all with actually reading Jack or engaging with him
Ahem I voted Jack before EOD1 and am voting them now. That should make it pretty obvious Jack is in my PoE.
Yes, but why? Your vote for him now seems to be based off "Let's get the CW to green flip"...and I'm just wondering if there's actually something behind your SR of Jack beyond that.

I thought he was fairly towny last RD

Is that right? Are you claiming info on Jack that clears them?

And again, vigis provided they exist either didn't follow the wisdom of flipping the CW. Or were prevented from doing so.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:08 pm Ya know if you ISO CR and do a word search for "Jack", you'll get 20 matches...and almost none of them have anything to do at all with actually reading Jack or engaging with him

Ahem I voted Jack before EOD1 and am voting them now. That should make it pretty obvious Jack is in my PoE.

Another reason to vote out Jack, is that we can probably clear their voters in the world they are mafia.
If Jack otoh is town, then the odds are 1 wolf voted on Jack, another on Seanzie and the rest were off both wagons.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:58 am Roxy is town.

W Roxy would've bit their fangs into me easily.

Good one down.

Probably unpairs Roxy/Wilgy. It's doubtful Wilgy if mafia outs a read on their partner like this, especially unprompted.

And Falcon, if you read my posts on Jack. You'd know full well that Jack is one of my suspects. Yet you do you.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:45 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:11 pm Interesting Pxy who died last night was a Jack voter. Again, unless there is info pointing otherwise. Jack is the optimal execution. Knowing the alignments of the EoD1 leading wagons would be the most helpful to town.
Is this the extent of your SR on Jack...lynch all CWs to town flips?

Jack is still in my PoE. Having them as the counter wagon to a flipped town is a bonus reason to vote them out, seeing as vigis provided they exist didn't kill their slot.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:20 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:06 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:04 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:55 pm Hmm I'd rather not tie this. Jack seems more helpful alive if they're town than Seanzie.
[VOTE: crichard] aubergine

explain

also @Scotty put me in a bucket I wanna ride

also also @Jackofhearts2005 explain the seanzie sus plx. I know I can re-read the thread but I don't wanna
I didn't want to tie on Jack/Seanzie. In addition, Jack if town is more useful to be kept around than Seanzie.
yeah that's the thought I'm hopeful that you can explain further. My experience with Jack is that yes he's hard to chop but that he's more content to faff around than Seanzie is and that when they both get down to business they're approx equal but it can take a while for Jack to get up to ramming speed whereas seanzie can kinda just turn it on at will.

anyways, just some expanded thoughts would be awesome.

For more context, I had a game in which I wolfed with Seanzie and their game here reminded me of that from offsite.
I'm aware that this was at least a year ago, yet the memory sticks for a long time.
In addition, Seanzie was likely a perpetual PoE slot from my perspective and it would be game losing to have them around in LyLo.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:19 pm
Chihiro wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:17 pm @lucy why did u only ask crichard for reads on thoise people?
because i don't think a pyxxy kill happens if creature/dunya are pure

what's your read on those 3?

I can see a world where Creature/Dunya aren't T/T, yet I wouldn't mind hearing a more in-depth explanation from you if you don't mind.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:22 pm
Chihiro wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:19 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:04 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:55 pm Hmm I'd rather not tie this. Jack seems more helpful alive if they're town than Seanzie.
[VOTE: crichard] aubergine

explain

also @Scotty put me in a bucket I wanna ride

also also @Jackofhearts2005 explain the seanzie sus plx. I know I can re-read the thread but I don't wanna
see this doesn't do much, cause if jack is even scum here why would he let seanzie die after calling the slot suss when he could just let them be a miselimination instead.

I still think seanzie died for being pretty heavily town, unless somewhere in the thread they bread crumbed being some good role which I dont think is the case. But either way I'm gonna iso them and see where there reads are cause that also could have been why they died.
my brother in christ seanzie was the D1 chop, not a NK. are you woofin?

I didn't know Christ was your lord.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:12 pm jack should always flip here and i think he might've tmi'ed sig town as creature or someone implied and had my general worldview be incorrect, either way i'm gonna do more town leadery stuff this cycle

i'm gonna reread d1 tonight

@CRichard what's your read on me/creature/dunya

You town
Creature town
Dunya town.

Interesting Pxy who died last night was a Jack voter. Again, unless there is info pointing otherwise. Jack is the optimal execution. Knowing the alignments of the EoD1 leading wagons would be the most helpful to town.

And yes I thought Seanzie had a better chance of flipping mafia than Jack. It didn't age well, yet here we are.

Chihiro wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:06 pm What an event. Also im honestly surprised thgere wasnt some kind of protection on seanzie.

I'm sorry what?

Also welcome Hollowkatt.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:04 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:55 pm Hmm I'd rather not tie this. Jack seems more helpful alive if they're town than Seanzie.
[VOTE: crichard] aubergine

explain

also @Scotty put me in a bucket I wanna ride

also also @Jackofhearts2005 explain the seanzie sus plx. I know I can re-read the thread but I don't wanna

I didn't want to tie on Jack/Seanzie. In addition, Jack if town is more useful to be kept around than Seanzie.

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine
Preferably this slot should have been vigged.

Seanzie's flip as town is disappointing. Unless anyone has an objection, Jack's flip will give us the most info on what the mafia were doing at EoD1.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:59 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:58 pm [VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine
Not interested in ties. Also this is still in my PoE.
Bad move. Vote Jack.

It's one of you two. I'm sure of it.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine
Not interested in ties. Also this is still in my PoE.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:53 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:52 pm [VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine
This is a counterwagon I believe in.
Lmao.

CR + Seanzie. Maybe + Pyxxy but let's give him another day.

Would you still think I'm mafia with Seanzie if I move my vote to them?
Just asking a friend.

Hmm I'd rather not tie this. Jack seems more helpful alive if they're town than Seanzie.

That being said, it feels to me that Jack/Seanzie have 1 mafia between them at most. I don't see these two ever being mafia together.
D1 bussing is highly suboptimal for mafia.

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine
This is a counterwagon I believe in.

I haven't seen any Pyx post that I hate so far. Seanzie being a miskill is an interesting perspective, which probably is a good look in the world where we have a Seanzie!Town flip as they probably would be ok with shrugging at a Seanzie mislunch as mafia.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:41 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:38 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:35 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:28 pm I honestly would be surprised if Seanzie flips town here. Sure there are meta shields on them, yet I don't find them a particular good reason to town lean/read someone and leave it alone.
Why aren't you voting Seanzie then?
I want a counterwagon to Seanzie that I believe in. Also, I feel that Seanzie being inactive because of real life is believable.
Let's set aside real life for now.

Do you think Roxy is a viable counterwagon with 20 minutes to do?

How about joining me on a Jack wagon?

CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:46 pm I'm not so sure Jack is a mafia now. Their lasts posts don't give off the vibe of mafia resigned to dying D1.
I think we agree that Jack does not sound like a mafia resigned to dying on D1. He's doing a pretty good job pushing Seanzie here as a miskill, and to prove that he (Jack) is trying, because that will get him townread (for now).

That's my read on the situation, at least.

Yeah I'm not convinced Roxy is town. I only remember that wall post and they peaced out. It feels like they wanted to look like they're helping town.
If I'm wrong on this, I'm all ears.
I can still see Jack as mafia. As their solving happened after they were on top wagon, and that can easily come from mafia trying to self pres and avoid being lunched.

So you think Seanzie is town then? Am I understanding this correctly?

pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:35 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:28 pm I honestly would be surprised if Seanzie flips town here. Sure there are meta shields on them, yet I don't find them a particular good reason to town lean/read someone and leave it alone.
Why aren't you voting Seanzie then?

I want a counterwagon to Seanzie that I believe in. Also, I feel that Seanzie being inactive because of real life is believable.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:33 pm I would be unsurprised if CR and Seanzie are wolves together.

CR pushes Seanzie a bit early on with Creature (Creature way moreso) and Dunya gives him a single post of shit for it.

Fast forward half a day. Wagons are Jack and Neon. Reasoning for Seanzie being a wolf is still valid. CR says multiple players are shielding Seanzie. Maybe they're in the last few pages but it reads to me like "multiple players shielding Seanzie" is actually "Dunya made one post about not liking a push on Seanzie."

And now, after the Seanzie wagon has taken off in spite of CR's refusal to move there, now CR is sure Seanzie is a wolf.

Fucking reeks.

Yeah because I would totally get town to suspect my scum buddy, when I could just point towards another townie in that world right?
/s

pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:28 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:47 pm [VOTE: Roxy] aubergine
I don't mind this slot as an option for today. They have been UTR quite a bit today.
What does UTR mean?

I have a feeling I've played with you before. Am I wrong?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:27 pm Well, my wagon is not good. I am at a conference without cell signal for 98% of the time. Anyone scumreading me for this alone is not making good decisions.

You don't have much time though. I'm not sure you'll be able to get all you voters off you.

I honestly would be surprised if Seanzie flips town here. Sure there are meta shields on them, yet I don't find them a particular good reason to town lean/read someone and leave it alone.

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:12 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:09 pm
DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:29 am
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:06 am So yes Omega is town in my book. Sorry mafia, mislunching Omega suddenly became a lot harder.
Your move.
This post just bothers me. It comes off as TMI because nobody is even pushing me for death. If I had like 6 votes and you were actually worried wolves were trying to mislynch that’d make sense, but that never happened.

Idk it comes off as a white knight mafia
Ding ding ding, you win the prize for worst reason to accuse someone as mafia. TMI despite no flips on D1.
When do people learn TMI accusations on D! hold no water?
WHAT?? wolves have tmi from the moment they get their roles.

Good job missing the point so spectacularly. There are no flips, so it's impossible to say someone had TMI without any info pointing otherwise.

[VOTE: Roxy] aubergine
I don't mind this slot as an option for today. They have been UTR quite a bit today.

I'm not so sure Jack is a mafia now. Their lasts posts don't give off the vibe of mafia resigned to dying D1.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:43 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:58 am Before I have a nap. Sig focusing on Scrappy so much is raising my eyebrows.
It feels like that if they're mafia, that's the only slot they can feasibly scum read because as mafia pushing on the 3p claim as a scumread means they don't have to remember what they said/done.
Which incidentally would clear Neon as town, because again two mafia voting on the same slot early D1 is unlikely to say the least.
Neon admittedly is a slot that gets my paranoia up, because they are quite capable of carrying as mafia and I've seen it happen at least twice off site.
Neon!mafia would also point towards Sig as town for same reasons above.
Weird perspective. Like....both Neon and Sig are 100% all in on yeeting Scrappy. Idk why CR is townreading Neon and scumreading Sig about it.

.... I don't see where I'm scum reading Sig. Yeah I'm talking about why it makes sense for mafia!Sig to focus on 3p, yet I've seen people say it doesn''t mean they're mafia.
They would be in PoE for that alone, yet their takes feel believable and not something read off a script.

Seanzie seems to be shielded by people I think are more likely to be town on meta reasons. I'm not sure that convinces me they're town, because I was miscleared by meta as mafia once.

Weird that I don't remember Wilgy at all this game. Probably not a good sign from experience.

Dennis is probably alright. None of their posts come across as mafia struggling to look productive.
Roxy is a question mark in my head. I don't find them memorable apart from that big wallpost, so they go into PoE.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:13 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:11 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:04 pm Still trying the impossible. I should be pretty obviously town. Oh well. Ketchup a couple hundred posts and save the day again.
If you're town, I wouldn't mind if you propose someone else take your place on the chopping block.
I'd hurry if I were you, there isn't much time left today.
Hour and 45 by my watch. Gonna take my time finding a wolf before proposing another option.

Alright, don't take too long over it.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:11 pm
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:09 pm
DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:29 am
CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:06 am So yes Omega is town in my book. Sorry mafia, mislunching Omega suddenly became a lot harder.
Your move.
This post just bothers me. It comes off as TMI because nobody is even pushing me for death. If I had like 6 votes and you were actually worried wolves were trying to mislynch that’d make sense, but that never happened.

Idk it comes off as a white knight mafia
Ding ding ding, you win the prize for worst reason to accuse someone as mafia. TMI despite no flips on D1.
When do people learn TMI accusations on D! hold no water?
Do wolves not have tmi on D1? I don't get it.

Without flips, it's not possible to feasibly accuse someone of TMI and therefore using that as a reason to call someone mafia makes no sense.

Search found 183 matches