The Syndicate

Thank you, @Marmot and @Dyslexicon for the game. It was fun and entertaining. Not to mention romantic. I really did enjoy the game and was very surprised that I was still alive at end game after being fed a dose of poison. I thought that poison would taste bad but it was actually quite yummy. Which could be an issue in future games, lol.

I found this forum to be very friendly and very welcoming and I am so grateful for that. This was my first experience with The Syndicate, and I did have a good time playing here in the crossover game. I hope to be back at some point, although, most likely not during the summer, as I have far too much AFK time to make a game very successful for me!!!

Good bye for now and thank you for making me feel at home here!!!

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:54 pm also good game everyone and thanks for not mischopping me for my horrendous play

I was in the bath when the game ended, listening to cool jazz and thinking that I was just a distraction to town solving the game. I was going to vote myself and tell town to go forward without me. But the melodrama wasn't necessary.

Congratulations, town!

And well played, mafia! You fought hard!

Oh, and why was I healed from the poison? That was a very bizarre turn of events!

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:50 pm @Garden Gnome

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:46 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:44 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:25 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:24 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:16 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:05 pm My order of chop would be Mac/Martin/and, why bother, the game is over.

Where did your suspicion of me go to?

It went to "I really believe that Mac is the scum and the game will end with his chop."

Why?

I think that you are the most likely to have NKed Sloonei, and I agree with JJJ that you are mafia.

I would probably have killed Sloonei but I also did in fact not do the thing you are saying.

then who do you think killed Sloonei?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:25 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:24 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:16 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:05 pm My order of chop would be Mac/Martin/and, why bother, the game is over.

Where did your suspicion of me go to?

It went to "I really believe that Mac is the scum and the game will end with his chop."

Why?

I think that you are the most likely to have NKed Sloonei, and I agree with JJJ that you are mafia.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:25 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:24 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:16 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:05 pm My order of chop would be Mac/Martin/and, why bother, the game is over.

Where did your suspicion of me go to?

It went to "I really believe that Mac is the scum and the game will end with his chop."

Why?

I agree with JJJ that he is the most likely to have done the NKs that happened in the last three nights.
I still don't know who healed me of the poison, however.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:16 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:05 pm My order of chop would be Mac/Martin/and, why bother, the game is over.

Where did your suspicion of me go to?

It went to "I really believe that Mac is the scum and the game will end with his chop."

My order of chop would be Mac/Martin/and, why bother, the game is over.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:02 pm Frankly Mac already conceded, so I would be open to killing him even today.

Sure, let's do so. I've already voted him.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:56 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:53 pm If you want to chop me, go and and do so. Then get ready for day eight. At least my demise will narrow your PoE.

If you had to put three names into a POE, who would you choose?

Alison, MacDougall, Martin.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:34 pm Gnome is definitely feeding me the appeal to emotion. It's kind of fun that it's literally embedded in our roles.

It is so romantic, but, alas, it looks like you're going to be a widower after today. Also, you'll still have scum to catch.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:42 pm IF the assertions I have made to clear Alison, Allcrab, and lost monkey are accurate, then the winning POE of three must be [Gnome, Martin, Mac].

Esooa is out. I am me. That does mean that not-me folks will have to clear me as well if they have not already done so with confidence to arrive conclusively at the above group.

If I have cleared someone wrongly it would hardly be the first time. For that reason I hope folks will talk with me about it. The game might be as simple as chop Gnome, but it also might not be. Let's be prepared for the worst. Town has no business doing anything except winning this game. Cover all bases and make it impossible for anything else to occur regardless of Gnome.

If you want to chop me, go and and do so. Then get ready for day eight. At least my demise will narrow your PoE.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:30 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:28 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:20 pm I tried to convince Gnome last night to kill me if she's mafia so we could die in one another's arms for a beautiful thematic ending.

Alas, here we are. I have no confident reason to say she's town.

I tried to persuade my true love that I have no access to the dramatic (or even anti-climactic) night kill, and that I never did. Apparently, I didn't succeed. It seems that the romance has died.

I am town. I don't know why I survived the poison. It makes no sense at all, but here we are.

Do you think that I should not suspect you?

Who else do you suspect?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:20 pm I tried to convince Gnome last night to kill me if she's mafia so we could die in one another's arms for a beautiful thematic ending.

Alas, here we are. I have no confident reason to say she's town.

I tried to persuade my true love that I have no access to the dramatic (or even anti-climactic) night kill, and that I never did. Apparently, I didn't succeed. It seems that the romance has died.

I am town. I don't know why I survived the poison. It makes no sense at all, but here we are.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:59 pm I really think Alison has decent wolf equity uere

agreed

I wonder why MacDougall voted off wagon.

three minutes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:56 pm 1576 is an annoying number. Give me one more post.

Here you go!

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:43 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:37 pm @Garden Gnome how do you feel about other players whose reads on you have changed over the day phase? I believe some names would be Allcrab and lost monkey, for example.

I did an ISO of Lost Monkey, who said that he couldn't read me so I could be chopped. He also wanted to know who healed me. I don't see anything scummy in this. There's nothing that looks scummy, like claiming that I was red checked and then saying that it might not be real and that the source of the "red check" was a potential liar.

In my opinion, Lost Monkey is town.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:43 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:37 pm @Garden Gnome how do you feel about other players whose reads on you have changed over the day phase? I believe some names would be Allcrab and lost monkey, for example.

I'd better read their ISOs. Neither one was as noisy as Alison, lol.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:42 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:41 pm i passed GG in post count, SBPCBWWE chop her over me

You have 18 minutes to pass me.

gogogogogogogogogogo!!!

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:41 pm those are the same

not really.
turquoise is somewhere between blue and green.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:41 pm i passed GG in post count, SBPCBWWE chop her over me

It's too late for me to be chopped today.
Maybe tomorrow.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:35 pm i do have fake poisons everything i said was a lie also i have a red check on jay also i do have a poison bomb suicide vest and that's bad news for all y'all

Wow, that's super dramatic.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:33 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:32 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:30 pm i like purple as a 3p color tbh

I love purple. It's one of my two favorite colors.

Purple and blue.

Purple and turquoise for me.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:30 pm i like purple as a 3p color tbh

I love purple. It's one of my two favorite colors.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:29 pm it says "you are a poisoner. every night choose a player. they die at the end of the next day. you win if everyone else dies." that's all

You are getting chopped so you're not winning.
But you made a great effort and you played a good game.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:29 pm my role is an open setup

I think that we've figured out that you are a 3P poisoner and will flip purple.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:25 pm POSION BOMB

do you mean "poison"????

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:08 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:07 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:04 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:00 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:58 pm Groovy

Tomorrow is Day 1 of a new mafia game.

POE of 3?

Mac/Gnome/(Martin or Alison). Clearing one of those slots would be ideal.
I’m in no state to do that today.

Let's remove the poisoner and then go after mafia tomorrow.

Yes. I am already moving past today.

All righty.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:04 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:00 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:58 pm Groovy

Tomorrow is Day 1 of a new mafia game.

POE of 3?

Mac/Gnome/(Martin or Alison). Clearing one of those slots would be ideal.
I’m in no state to do that today.

Let's remove the poisoner and then go after mafia tomorrow.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:21 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:19 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:17 am It doesn't matter to me whether you're commanding or suggesting. A real townie has no reason to doubt logic here. We do not have that many unknowns, and logic has been accurate throughout the course of this game. You trying your best to yell back at me and nitpick the wording of my argument when the point - that a townie would use stone cold logic to uncover the truth, not whisk us away on fancy flights of imagination - is clear is doubly outing.

I don't have an analytical mind.
And the unknown is why I am not dead from the poison.
So you are using my thinking style as a weapon to claim that I am scum?
I believe that you can do better than that.

One unknown. Easily resolved by logic. The logic says you are scum.

If I am misrepresenting you here is your chance to restate your point. Why is logic fallible here? Why shouldn't we believe that you are scum?

So I have been trying to figure out who the mafia is. But I don't have a clue. If I were to attempt to use logic, I would look for the most scummy player and point my finger. But that is kind of absurd. If it were always the scummy players who are mafia, it would be an easy game.

Mafia, however, is a complicated and confusing game. I still struggle with it.

That being said, I followed your progression from "gnome is definitely town" to "gnome is such scum." The progression makes little sense. First of all, if I were scum, I would not want to kill off my teammates and create a situation where I am playing alone. I'm not a strong enough scum player for that scenario. If it were true, the game would already be over. Secondly, your logic doesn't work because you are using unreliable information for your claim that I am scum. The "red check." It never happened. It is a hoax. I will readily admit that my imagination never led me to use someone else's unverifiable red check as a reason for calling me scum. But that is exactly what you did.

I think that there has to be some reason for your abrupt transition from Gnome is obvious town to Gnome is obvious scum, but I don't have a clue. The only thing that I can think is that you are mafia and you hoped that I would sit comfortably in your pocket but, for some reason, you came to the conclusion that I popped out. Therefore, you decided to squash me but didn't know how to handle it because, for reasons unknown to me, I survived the poison and then didn't get NKed.

So there you go. I hope that answers your commentary.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:02 am Well, pseudo red checked by someone who could easily be lying but hey, that description applies to hawkataine and we exed her anyways

Pseudo red checked?
In other words, this is a hoax because Alison admitted that the person who gave the red check "could easily be lying." So now, Alison is relying on a source who may or may not be telling the truth. Which means that it's more like a rumor than an actual red check.
This doesn't make Alison look good.
It makes it look like she wants me to be mafia and is just trying to prove her claim with whatever comments she can find, even if she doesn't trust her source.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:43 pm Gnomey, do you believe Alison to be mistaken in her reasoning or is she someone you believe to be mafia?

I am still in the process of trying to understand Alison's progression, which, in my opinion, make little sense, especially the above "red check."

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:01 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:00 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:26 am All y'all: who would you include in your POE pool of exactly three mafia suspects?

Mac -> Gnome -> LoMo

I haven't really checked on LoMo recently nor compared him to Allcrab yet.

Mac & Gnome could be switched if I'm convinced it's possible and not implausible that there's two town in Mac/Alison. I just feel a bit surprised that both of them are alive up to this point along with JJJ and Sloonei.

Gnome got red checked

Here, Alison is claiming that I was red checked. It's unclear where that came from and why she had such a confident town read of me earlier.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:47 am If Gnome is mafia this game she fooled me fair and square. The lovers thing threw me for a loop but JJJ pointed out it was two way so not cruel to give to a mafioso, she just straight deceived me with her carefree attitude and seeming belief she was about to die as a townie.

Alison has now persuaded herself that I could be scum. She is reading way too much into my comments and I believe that she is seeing what she wants to see, as opposed to what is actually there. But she has never seen me as scum, so she really doesn't know what to look for.

@Alison , do you really think that I would vote two of my teammates off the island if I were scum? Feel free to ask anyone from Mafia Cafe who is still alive. They know that I really hate busing my teammates. If you think that I would actually kill off two of my teammates, please tell me why you think that.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:54 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:52 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:51 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:49 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:45 pm Mac trying to convince me Alison fake poisoned herself is a little hard to take seriously.

It's Alison. Remember her as Gambit Demon? She is a 5D player.

I don’t doubt she’s capable of the strategy. I doubt it’s a thing in the first place.

You must be unfamiliar with poison mechanics because being able to fake it is a common part of the role.

To Mac's credit it is true that Gnome's survival suggests the presence of a fake poison. However, poisoners are not usually permitted to self target.

Now doubt has crept in when she suggests a fake poison. This is the part that is conjecture because there is no way that anyone but the poisoner knows about the existence of a fake poison.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:18 pm I think Allcrab and Gnome are town and I still have faith in Martin - specifically I think he hid the number of shots he had so he could surprise the poisoner, and this is a townie thing to do and saving Gnome is also townie.

This would leave Mac as mafia and TSP as poisoner. Mac has been exclusively trying to widen the POE at all costs today and is thus scummy. TSP has done nothing. Behavior wise they fit into my solve.

In the next few posts (because the multiple quotes don't appear to be working), I will show Alison's progression from Gnome is town to Gnome is scum! Earlier in D6, Alison was absolutely convinced that I was town. Above is what she says to explain why I am town, along with Allcrab and Martin.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:31 am @Garden Gnome we can talk it over properly in the night if you activate. This day is already drawing to a close.

All right!

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:24 am You being poisonproof scum would be an entirely logical explanation for every event that has occurred. So to me it doesn't seem clear logic has failed.

If you think logic has failed because you have TMI on your green rolecard, then kindly use your imagination to proffer us with an alternative explanation as to the events that have occurred.

I already did.
It was the JJJ story, with him saving his true love from poison, only to call her scum.
I'll try to think of more.
But it will have to be later since I have to get ready to go to work.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:23 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:21 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:18 am Tell you what. Give me one single reason to believe that logic is inaccurate or unreliable here.

The mystery of my survival.
Why am I not dead?
Wouldn't a mafia player want me to be dead?
I would be just one more dead townie, and the scum would be one player closer to victory.
That would be the logical scum play.
But the logical scum play did not occur.
I don't know why that happened.
So I have to think of possibilities that don't look logical for an explanation.
I admit that I am clueless, however.

The other explanation is that you are scum. If you have no alternative explanations I will go with the one I have at hand.

I presented a scenario in which JJJ could have framed me as his unfaithful, scum lover.
There are two players who can't seem to account for their night actions.
You are one of them.
It is still possible that you are scum.
Which would explain your abrupt shift from "gnome is town" to "gnome is scum."
But I am not confident with a scum read of you.
It wouldn't make any sense that you would kill off your own team.
That is counter productive.
So I have no explanation and have gone back to complete and utter cluelessness.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:21 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:19 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:17 am It doesn't matter to me whether you're commanding or suggesting. A real townie has no reason to doubt logic here. We do not have that many unknowns, and logic has been accurate throughout the course of this game. You trying your best to yell back at me and nitpick the wording of my argument when the point - that a townie would use stone cold logic to uncover the truth, not whisk us away on fancy flights of imagination - is clear is doubly outing.

I don't have an analytical mind.
And the unknown is why I am not dead from the poison.
So you are using my thinking style as a weapon to claim that I am scum?
I believe that you can do better than that.

One unknown. Easily resolved by logic. The logic says you are scum.

If I am misrepresenting you here is your chance to restate your point. Why is logic fallible here? Why shouldn't we believe that you are scum?

Logic has failed because I didn't die.
That makes no sense at all.
As I just pointed out, there is no reason for scum to let me live.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:18 am Tell you what. Give me one single reason to believe that logic is inaccurate or unreliable here.

The mystery of my survival.
Why am I not dead?
Wouldn't a mafia player want me to be dead?
I would be just one more dead townie, and the scum would be one player closer to victory.
That would be the logical scum play.
But the logical scum play did not occur.
I don't know why that happened.
So I have to think of possibilities that don't look logical for an explanation.
I admit that I am clueless, however.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:17 am It doesn't matter to me whether you're commanding or suggesting. A real townie has no reason to doubt logic here. We do not have that many unknowns, and logic has been accurate throughout the course of this game. You trying your best to yell back at me and nitpick the wording of my argument when the point - that a townie would use stone cold logic to uncover the truth, not whisk us away on fancy flights of imagination - is clear is doubly outing.

I don't have an analytical mind.
And the unknown is why I am not dead from the poison.
So you are using my thinking style as a weapon to claim that I am scum?
I believe that you can do better than that.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:05 am I could see a townie who is genuinely baffled why they survived the poisoned shrugging their shoulders and going "I don't know it just happened". But the attempt to dissuade me from further inquiry with the "stop being so logical" line is I think outing. A townie would encourage more inquiry into what happened because they themselves are curious and want to know what's going on and why they were saved. They would actively try to eliminate possibilities, come up with theories or propose solutions. I can see no world where a townie wishes to shut down discussion of the matter entirely and just handwave it away.

Either you need to reread my comment or you're misinterpreting it on purpose.
I didn't say, "Stop being so logical." I said, "Maybe the key is not being logical." Notice the word "maybe," which doesn't at all mean the same thing as "stop."

You might say that this is being nitpicky. But, as someone with a good deal of experience as an editor, I assure you that it is not. By turning my suggestion into an imperative, you have completely changed the meaning of the sentence. You have eliminated all possibility of doubt, which I implied with the word "maybe." My suggestion was that it is possible that logical thinking doesn't work in a situation where there are too many unknowns.

What I suggested was to step outside the box. Perhaps use your imagination, which is how I function in mafia and in real life, in general. Yes, there are perameters, such as good use of the English language (when I'm an editor), but boxes are things to break out of. I never issued a command, so interpreting my comment as a command just so you could call me scum is incorrect at the least and purposely misleading at the worst. Which one is it, Alison?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:01 am you are asked why you survived a poison that only a mafioso could conceivably survive and your response is "idk man it just happened. stop being so logical".

LOL, your interpretation is funnier than my response.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:00 am So Gnome tell me.

Why did you survive the poison?

If it was a mafia healer healing you, what's the purpose of healing you only to get you misexed? why not just sit there and watch you die instantly without any effort on their part?

I know, right?
It's very crazy.
I could have just passed away from the poison.
But I'm still here, living on borrowed time.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:58 am I guess I should consider the possibility that there's a scum healer who healed you to frame you

but... why bother? why not just let you die? I mean, reviving you from the dead just to kill you again? Doesn't make sense to me.

I admit that it's bizarre.
But a lot of wacky things have happened during the course of this game.
I can explain none of them.
Maybe the key is not being logical.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:01 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:00 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:26 am All y'all: who would you include in your POE pool of exactly three mafia suspects?

Mac -> Gnome -> LoMo

I haven't really checked on LoMo recently nor compared him to Allcrab yet.

Mac & Gnome could be switched if I'm convinced it's possible and not implausible that there's two town in Mac/Alison. I just feel a bit surprised that both of them are alive up to this point along with JJJ and Sloonei.

Gnome got red checked

when was I red checked? And by whom?
It was fake.
I'm town.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:47 am If Gnome is mafia this game she fooled me fair and square. The lovers thing threw me for a loop but JJJ pointed out it was two way so not cruel to give to a mafioso, she just straight deceived me with her carefree attitude and seeming belief she was about to die as a townie.

I wish that I were this talented as a scum. But, alas, no.
JJJ is weaving a complicated web, but it's full of holes. He has become so fixated on his belief that I am scum that he is getting to the point that he is unable to see any other possibilities.

Also, there is very little suspicion on JJJ. It is universally assumed that he is town. But that is not necessarily the case. He could be a scum healer, as well as my lover. If so, it would be in his interest to heal me from the poison because my not dying would look suspicious. He could then say... but why didn't gnome die...

And the next day... why wasn't gnome NKed?

He couldn't NK me because he would die as well, and, as far as I know, killing yourself on purpose is not a good idea for either town or scum.

Once we flip TSP, who I believe is the poisoner, we really need to look at JJJ carefully. My guess is that his posts won't give too much information. I think that he is probably a strong scum player who doesn't ever act out-and-out scummy.

What do you think of the possibility that JJJ is mafia?