The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:59 pm Thank you to all the PerC folks for hopping over here to play with us. It was great playing with all of you.

sorry i was unable to town read you, @hawkataine.

No worries! If there's one thing this game made me realise it's that I take town reads too much for granted when people have meta on me... which tbh means good things for my scum play so I'm not mad xD

Anyway gg all! It was really great playing here with everyone and I will probably be back at some point if I don't forget/ever have time. Thanks @Marmot and @Dyslexicon for hosting such an entertaining game <3 and @Hally for being a comforting discord presence :')

Should've just faked a red on sonnycrush D3 smh

Lol jk I was town it just occurred to me that there might be a janitor or something whoops and seanzie is leaving legacy so I feel bad
That’s for everyone who said I wouldn’t have fakeclaimed xoxo
Wasn’t joking about enjoying it here tho! See y’all on the other side

Imagine getting so fucked over by a roleblock of all things :’)

Can’t believe I put so much work into that many ISOs and not a single person changed their mind

Lol I was scum gg everyone
Was fun playing here!

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 3:21 pm Lmao they left a legacy on owner

Did you miss the bit where I at one point concluded the two dead scum were teamed with each other
That was a highlight lemme tell you
(That ISO has some useful teaming shit in it, don’t knock it til you’ve tried it)

Aaaaaand that's all we've got time for today, folks! I've compiled this nice list of my last will and testament:

Gnome https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 19#p802419 - also she didn't vote at EoD1
Dana https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 96#p802490
Martin https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 01#p802518
Fable https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 50#p802569
Owner https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 00#p803794
Act https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 91#p803991
LoMo https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 39#p803928
Sonny https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 58#p803858
Orange https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 73#p803873

Gonna go solve puzzles now bye

Very patchy ISO of Act:
This owner interaction thread doesn't look like they're teamed, but this is a bit weak.

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 7:15 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:38 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:31 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:30 am I wanna kill nutella

why

she keeps pinging me, that spicy comment in particular was weird

Owner does that. She picks up on the smallest, seemingly strangest reasons to read people. With that said, it doesn’t usually seem this prominent...meaning, I feel like she’s laying it on thick right now. It feels manufactured in a “I know people know me for this type of game play so I should be doing that!”

For example: in the past, Owner used the word “interesting” as a scum tell for people. In another game, she used an avatar change as a scum tell. Now, I’m seeing her pick up on an odd word AND call out an avatar nearly back to back.

I believe this is a read that would authentically occur to town!Act, and that this is how she would phrase it.

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 7:24 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:48 am Nutella frozen again

I think I asked this a while back and I don’t think I’ve seen an answer (maybe I missed it)...what does this mean? Lol

Weak but I probably wouldn't bother going back to this and drawing attention to nutella if I were her teammate. This looks like Act actually trying to get a grip on what's going on

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:22 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:20 pm

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:18 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:13 pm I agree with that observation @Garden Gnome -- tangible drop in engagement from Owner that doesn't quite align to my other premier suspects apart maybe from bad bunny. Not good at face value.

Why is activity level a factor? Owner had been suspected prior to the fruit scandal and remained in the game. Maybe I have an inaccurate perception of time...is there a pattern of Owner dropping off when under suspicion?

It's not a meta read. I rarely bother with those unless I think it's truly applicable. As a general rule, I think mafia members are more likely to trail off in activity under constant pressure than town players are. That's not absolute, but it would align with my experience.

I meant a pattern in this game. For example, I would agree if there was evidence in the game to suggest Owner flakes at suspicion. However, there is evidence to the contrary. She’s been under suspicion and from what I remember (and could be wrong), she remained. This is not to say I’m not suspicious of Owner (I think I explained myself in my long post earlier lol), but I do not like this reason for suspecting her.

Idk if someone who's bussing owner makes this kind of nitpicky post of other people's reasons for scum reading owner. If you're teamed with owner, I feel like most things that most people say will seem like reasonable arguments for why she's scum.

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:47 pm @Owner of a Lonely Heart, your vote is still on a mechanically confirmed townie. For what it’s worth.

Yet another terrible "why wouldn't you say this in scum chat" read from me 0:)

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 10:07 am @Gavial, can you list all the roles in this game and who completed what action last night phase? If not, you cannot confirm that you are the reason no kill happened. So do more than just say you have a red check on Hawk and that we all need to vote there.

I do not believe Owner’s claim. I agree with Nanook that the thought process doesn’t match up. Owner responded to Seanzie’s question about if she targeted Jay with “I sent fruit to someone, but idk if they got it.” It’s a non answer because it doesn’t directly address whether she targeted Jay. “Someone” could mean anyone. Why not say she sent fruit to Jay at that moment? Why be sneaky about that? If Owner did in fact send fruit to Jay and Gavial, upon the start of D2, and seeing that Jay and Gavial are bedding it up tonight, she would know immediately that it was her doing. Because what are the chances the two lovers are the two she sent fruit to? This is a large game. No way she doesn’t know what her fruit has done. So to answer that question so vaguely is not helpful. The only motive I can see is not wanting to claim BUT she did claim so why equivocate there? There’s no need.

Then, she says the person who she sent fruit to hasn’t claimed receiving fruit. The “person.” Singular. In this post, apparently she sent fruit to only one person. And she doesn’t know whether that one person received it. Well, that’s a lie. She did know because like I said before, she doesn’t enter D1 not knowing that info after seeing the date announcement. But also...why reduce her recipients from two to one?

6484784928474 years later, Owner returns with a fully fleshed claim that contradicts what she previously announced. Now she confirms Jay as a target AND Gavial and she did know they received the fruit, although neither of them are aware of receiving fruit (which I don’t take with too much weight because maybe they wouldn’t know).

This claim does not make sense. The only hold up then is...why would Owner create this elaborate claim without knowing if someone could cc the date mechanic? Maybe...

Owner knows how the date happened. I’ve played a game in which lovers engage and then one dies. (Owner was the torturer, I died). Maybe this date setup is a scum mechanic and Owner knows one of Jay or Gavial will die at the end of the date?? Maybe Owner set up the date as scum or maybe a scum buddy did and is in cahoots with this plan to shield Owner.

This is an awful lot of inaccurate mech spec for someone who knows what's actually going on

TL;DR Yeah I was pretty lazy with this ISO. Something about my imminent demise, I guess. But I do think Act's lines of questioning seem not to have an agenda and fit with how she thinks about the game as town, and there's a couple of interactions that make me think it's unlikely she's teamed with owner and/or nutella. Probably around 40% mafia chance. It does occur to me that narrow questioning of Dana could be a trait of 3P as you're not actively being a threat to the mafia team as long as Dana's not mafia. But I do believe that Act believed in her Dana cross-examination at least, so maybe not. Possibly like a 20% 3P chance.

At some point someone's going to have to suck it up and make a read on gnome, y'all

These goddamn multiquote ISOs are preventing me from transcending from the rank of Stool Pigeon and that upsets me

Man I am so excited to exist solely in the peanut gallery of the great beyond

How much do people actually want my thoughts on an Act ISO? She's the last one I've got left

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:27 pm @hawkataine, did you say Dana came into D2 wanting attention on Owner?

Yes, she came in and was like we should follow Alison's suspicion that nutella/owner were teamed

LoMo ISO:

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 3:17 am

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 8:11 pm Not really the only reason no I just sort of generally toneread you as wolfy/found your approach disingenuous, starting with the dana read (bc again I'm a defender of hedginess and didn't see it your way). But as you've posted more it seems like that's just your style and you are poking in various places and have solvey intentions. I could move off you but don't know where

You could just unvote? There is no compulsion that a person needs to be voted. This I could move off you but don't know where stuff I don't buy it and seems fake. Leaning scum here.

I feel like this would have to be very early distancing that is more serious than it necessarily needs to be if LoMo is scum. I think it's a bit more likely that they're not teamed.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 3:29 am Allison like an evolved form of alana lol.

LoMo unlikely teamed with Alison, which is probably the most useless conclusion I've drawn so far in this process (aside from owner being teamed with nutella lmao)

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 3:45 am

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 12:33 am

Tangrowth wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:02 pm Hello, I'm Tangy and this is my first mafia game.

Hi Tangy. This may be one of my final mafia games I play. I have been considering retirement. Not, to rain on the date though, I just feel as though I can't mod how I want to mod anymore, which is my main appeal to the game in the recent years.

Owner you should try modding games here owner. Some of the setup i have seen here are right up your alley.

This is a terrible take but I feel like this would be something LoMo would mention in discord instead of the thread if they were teamed. Judge me.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 4:04 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 3:59 am [VOTE: lost monkey] aubergine

you seem to be in neutral commentary mode, let's see some reads

You scum lean, jay town lean. Sonny might be town. Null on the rest unless something catches my eye. You might ask why i haven't voted you, need to see more, the read is not concrete.

I think if they're teammates LoMo probably doesn't do the interaction on nutella's behalf (i.e. preemptively answering that question), I think he tries to actually have some interaction. This is weak though.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 2:01 am

Kito wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 11:04 pm oh also potential scum distancing between belzy and guillo. you heard it here first lads

Kito's probably town lol

This is a very valid thing to townread Kito for with a 'lol' attached to the end. Mindmeld, which is a good sign.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 2:16 am

Sonny wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 12:14 am

Tangrowth wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 10:17 pm

Sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 9:37 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 9:30 pm

Sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 9:19 pm Funny thing, when I woke up one of my first thoughts was I bet LoMo would be leading the votes and lol, here it is, should be fun to catch up. 2 is meh, but it tickles me that I saw that one coming.

do you have a read there?

Nope, was just a premonition. It says nothing about his alignment, just that he has this weird power that involves being able to attract votes without people even really saying he's scum, happens with those who know him as well. Strange super power.

You mean he tends to be scummy town? Hrmm.

Personally I don't think so but he seems to gather votes without a clear "you're scummy" read imo, they creep on and he doesn't really do much to stop it. If wording/phrasing is part of why people find him shady than it's NAI. Haven't gotten to why he was voted yet.

Basically it started once i said nutella is a scum lean.

I quite like the 'me vs the thread' persona here, it feels like LoMo really believes his scumread on nutella and is paying attention to the way the thread is responding to it.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 2:33 am Owner is town here for me. Scum owner wouldn't play in a way its get her lynched this easily. She is being too blunt and too shady to be scum here.

There is this. Idk, sometimes you get a read wrong, it be like that sometimes. I don't see anything that would particularly point to a teaming here.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 3:45 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:59 am

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:51 am

Sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 9:19 pm Funny thing, when I woke up one of my first thoughts was I bet LoMo would be leading the votes and lol, here it is, should be fun to catch up. 2 is meh, but it tickles me that I saw that one coming.

We all knew it was gonna happen with how I play.

....is this all you have to say for yourself

I dont really get your accusations other than he is running a commentary and not willing to commit. I dont give out reads unless i am comfortable with the reads. For me right now jay, kito, sonny and probably owner are town and you are a scum lean.

Sticking to his guns and providing reads consistent with his progression. I am personally a lil bit concerned by sonny and owner being town, but I guess sonny did look towny on D1 at least and he's not actually confirmed scum.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 2:08 pm [VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

Gonna go sleep.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 4:47 pm Good thing even though i was lurking in the thread at the end of the day, nutella did too many shady stuff so i didnt rescind my vote.

This is what he has to say about his part in the nutella yeet. I don't think this is outside of LoMo's teamed range in isolation, but I'm inclined to think it was a genuine pat self on the back for catching scum.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 10:33 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 10:23 am @Allcrab why do you think a mafia bad bunny would have voted for Made?

Why dont you think her not voting made looks better? With her claiming and how you and tangy who are the loudest players supporting nutella in the thread who could lynch nutella then if she would have tied it with voting made, it would have helped nutella the most. Also sloonei who sussed nutella also shifter so if she would have been saved, it would have been the worst thing which would have happened to town. Thats why i liked act's refusal to vote made and bunny's vote on someone else. The only reason i am considering act could be scum is because she is not paranoid enough.

I'm not totally sure I follow all of this, but I think it's a reasonably good look that fits with LoMo having a solid handle on thread state and picking out things that inform his reads.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 11:34 am Owner you shouldn't have claimed doc lol as scum when you basically felt that the syndicate people were scum reading perc people a lot and jay got N1 targeted and i know if you were doc you would not have targeted jay. If no one knew this would have been fine but 2 people watched jay, though because of fable it also narrowed down on who the doctor is though.

Demonstrates an utter lack of understanding of what the claim situation is. I feel like owner would have been discussing her fake claim in scum chat, and I read this post as genuine, so I think it's a good sign for LoMo.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:34 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:30 pm

Allcrab wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:27 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:00 pm @Allcrab is your role precisely the same as lost monkeys; that is, you’re not a standard watcher? Instead you the number of people from each community targeting someone?

Forgive me if you’ve already clarified this and I missed it.

Correct.

Okay that's not nearly as powerful as a proper watcher then.

I'm going to consider this to be irrelevant to alignment. You two can both be town or be one of each or both be mafia. Hosts like to institute duplicates sometimes to punish players who would solve them instead of each other.

lol the mafia's modified watcher died D1.

Again, a derp that I'm pretty sure I believe, and it's not just this post where he seems to think nutella was a watcher either. So, sustained derp?

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:25 am I really feel bad for hawk when she played so well on D1 and then everything going down on N1.

This reads genuine to me, and I don't think he counts it as 'playing well' if he knows I'm town, because LoMo knows my town game and D1 was definitely not a showcase of the best of my abilities.

TL;DR: I think this is a pretty good look for LoMo. There's also a whole bunch of the sorts of offhand casual reads based on one post that I would expect from town!LoMo. Chance of mafia probably around 28%. I don't think 3P LoMo does the whole drawing attention watcher claim scenario either.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:04 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:59 pm

Dana wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:56 pm
fell for what? what trap im so confused

He asked you if you had randed scum before this and you said yes. LMAO

Eh, I don't see it.

Agreed

ISO on orange:

orangecrush wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:58 pm my scum read on hawk is similar to my read on gnome btw i dont think they have been able to successfully generate genuine content and are leaning on things like flavor and in hawks case picking on obvious jokes trying to shade them

as for macdougal for those that were playing the last game on mafia cafe he is giving me solvis vibes, i was able to get solvis easily because of his annoying approach to the thread which seemed to be an attempt at derailing actual town activity from taking place.

This is one of orange's first posts, I know I will flip town so I am suspicious of tying the logic for scumreading me with the logic for gnome

The mac read does feel like a genuine response to mac's play vs the last game orange was in though

orangecrush wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:38 pm i am on page 25 @Garden Gnome so you can definitely consider my reads list tentative

dw scumbud it'll be okay

orangecrush wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 6:59 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 6:47 pm

orangecrush wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:38 pm i am on page 25 @Garden Gnome so you can definitely consider my reads list tentative

All right, got it. In that context, the scum read on me makes sense. I didn't understand the game, and I played accordingly. Also, I never responded to anyone because I couldn't read the print. Both situations did manage to resolve themselves, and I think that my play improved on D2. As you continue reading, I hope that you can view my play with an open mind.

Are you town reading me already because the way this reads kind of feels like it the otherroption whicj would be bad is that3 you actuallt know that I'm town which is why you're so concerned about me changing the way I view your play

This seems a bit like a warning, with orange just giving herself a bit of TMI freedom if gnome ever flips

orangecrush wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:51 pm I'm kind of flipping back and forth between current day and reading back

My thoughts on the healer thing is that I don't see any reason we can't have multiple healers when we now know that there have been multiple poisons, that obviously doesn't mean anything for the alignment of each one so that's an important thing to remember

The one thing that sticks out is 1-shot and 2-shot claims. I have no real reason for thinking this but I think they would both be 1 or both be 2 OR are different Alignments if both real. It just seems kinda random to give town a 1 shot and a 2 shot of the same role instead of just two 1 shots or a 3 shot. Maybe it's my ocd lol

Anyway I'm more concern with Gnome and Mac at the current times

In which orange has one of her scum reads on the block for the thing she's noncommittally discussing, but is more concerned with the other two?

orangecrush wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 10:55 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 10:42 am

orangecrush wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 10:25 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 10:03 am

Guillotine wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 10:01 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:56 am

Guillotine wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:55 am Garden Gnome looked like softing lost wolf.

How?

Because she is trying to FIND her love here?

@Garden Gnome why do you think that we as town cannot identify players with TMI?

I think that Orange claimed TMI where it didn't exist. Orange comes across as biased and more interested in proving her point that I am scum than in actually reading me and finding out my alignment.

i dont think this is fair as i am only a quarter of the game caught up and you know this, let me catch up and let my reads evolve

I think that it is fair because you keep calling me scum, rather than saying that I'm in a PoE, which is not the same thing at all. Also, I did tell you earlier that reading me based on my day one posts didn't work very well because of my high level of confusion. I feel that you are just continuing in the same path of trying to prove that I am scum rather than read my posts with an open mind.

you're acting like i am tunelling you which isn't the case. You are one of a few people that i am suspecting and i was asked a question specifically about you which is what i was answering

This whole quote thread is a bit harsh for distancing, but I should reiterate that none of us have scum meta on orange. If I had to call it, I think orange comes out of this looking worse than gnome.

orangecrush wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 5:25 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 5:02 pm @orangecrush since you're here, would you mind listing out some townreads/scumreads you have as of where you're at right now? Explanations are welcome but not necessary. It will just help give us some content to read you off of.

im town reading Act, Dana, Guil, Tangrowth

town lean for Jay and Martin and Sloonei

scum reading Gnome and Mac

scum lean on Hawk

can elaborate on any you wish just ask

Orange's scum reads haven't evolved at all in 24 hours. This concerns me, in addition to her coming straight into the thread scum reading me despite most people townreading me on D1. It reads like an agenda. I don't really know what to do with the inclusion of gnome here, scum don't want to bus the third teammate in a row, but also I don't think orange has played scum before.

TL;DR: yes I think it's totally possible that orange is scum, and I'd echo what seanzie said about her normally repping in and just being the most obvious voice of reason ever to town. I don't see any of that here. Solid 74% mafia, no reason to think 3P.

Sonny wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 11:10 pm You've probably already been answered but I'm here now, so; JaggedJimmyJay meet Garden Gnome. She not only encourages tunneling on her, she will pick up a shovel herself and assist your digging. Even if she posts something like "my welcome email said I was scum" it doesn't mean she is scum [true story, nearly]. Watch for her focus on solving, apparently. /not great at reading her

This is a whole load of nothing but I feel like I could see Sonny/Gnome here.

Sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 1:42 am

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 1:35 amI'm still responding to page 1 of 15, not there yet. I'm really curious about why a wagon is on Act.

I can see why those who don't know Act are suspect, her first question really is redundant, but I think it's largely around people not knowing her. Her question to Dana was what I was thinking when I saw the nervous post and I think it's valid to expect those who don't know Gnome to be suspect of her. Anyway, catch up.

He's not wrong, but this is a bit of a soft defense of Gnome, combined with telling owner to catch up which proceeds to happen a lot and reads a bit like a frustrated teammate.

Sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 2:19 am Lol, I am most definitely an old man, I'm just unable to run my normal game which involves scraping the thread into a worksheet that automatically formats everything so I can observe any interaction I want and reference any previous quote while watching trends. I like data. With my memory it feels necessary to have a good game. That said, your ISO function is good so meh.

To be fair I can believe that this would be throwing town!Sonny off his game and demotivating him.

Sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 2:25 am I thought most Syndicate players had Nutella as townie, no? Why is Jay reading them as town wrong? Did I miss something here?

Also, when did Jay call Owner town, she only just started playing?

This is a bit nitpicky but I do feel like the statement on nutella could be indicative of a teammate who doesn't have to try to read her. Or it could be cross-community struggles.

Sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 2:38 am Guys, I actually don't enjoy being town read, I mean, do you, but I could be scum yaknow.

Actually, I think I'm just not used to having town reads thrown out like glitter. There are a lot. A lot a lot.

This is pretty much just a character judgement, but from what I know of town!Sonny, I think he's a lot happier upon arriving to a site where lots of town reads are the norm. I think he probably enjoys working with people in the thread. I think he probably doesn't seem this concerned about the number of town reads.

Sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 9:19 pm Funny thing, when I woke up one of my first thoughts was I bet LoMo would be leading the votes and lol, here it is, should be fun to catch up. 2 is meh, but it tickles me that I saw that one coming.

I believe this to be a real thought, which means I probably think Sonny/LoMo is mildly unlikely.

Sonny wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 12:18 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 10:33 pm GTH swipes, sorta (call the left swipes POE more than "mafia reads")

Spoiler: show

Best Reads List Ever! Props for effort.

Definitely still have an unwavering Syndicate bias though. So if you're town, then best yeet would be Made in this scenario. Why are they scummy to you?

So the only non-PerC player that JJJ had as a scum read was made, while he also had owner as a scum read. I think it's a bit of a leap of logic to then be like "okay so that means you can't trust your reads on the PerC players, let's just focus on Made for now," which might suggest teaming with owner.

Montage of Sonny being irritated/concerned that owner isn't around and trying to get useful posts out of her: This whole set of posts really seems like Sonny is waiting for owner to get with the program so that he can justifiably slap a town read on her. It doesn't scream to me that he's actually trying to read her.

Then there's this sequence where Mac asks Sonny to vote Nutella (his vote is currently on owner) and Sonny is like yeah sure (with dodgy reasoning) and then has a questionable reaction when Mac changes his mind

Sonny wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 2:03 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 2:00 am @Sonny vote nutella

Lol, sure

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

I actually have a meh read on them anyway, only note is the insta town read on Kito which must have been a joke but yall are dropping so many sincere townreads over air so who the hell knows anymore.

Sonny wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 2:29 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 2:28 am I suddenly townread nutella

This is Sonny's Nutella interactions post: The thing that stands out most to me is the equal town reads on nanook and owner based on nutella interactions. That doesn't seem reasonable, especially when Sonny was previously like "I value town!Nanook's reads and am therefore interested that he's voting Nutella" on D1.

Sonny wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:30 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:29 am

Sonny wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:28 am [VOTE: Owner] aubergine

rly tho

If you're a flower vendor, why not say who you visited? Or at least say "no it wasn't Jay"?

She dodged Sean's question, even if it is a fake trap, it's a poor reaction.

To be fair to Sonny, if he bussed, he committed pretty hard pretty early. I don't think that's outside his range, but it's probably towards the more ruthless end of it.

Sonny wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 5:23 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 5:16 am

Sonny wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 5:14 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 5:10 am OoO! Fun! Sonny, you also tried to distract me with Kito. I like this!

Distract you from what?

Owner.

I'm catching up on today's posts.

Even if you were reaction testing her, her reaction pinged me, so carry on.

I couldn't find what Seanzie was talking about here (I had changed ISO page already and my time is very valuable lol) but it's probably worth including here at least

Sonny wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 6:14 am Eh, don't really mind Hawks reaction to Gavial's red check.

Exhibit A

Sonny wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:57 am Why not. Let's see how this sits.

[VOTE: hawkataine] aubergine

He makes this vote once he realises Gav isn't joking (presumably why he liked my reaction as well). Sonny was my co-mod on gav's scum game on MafC recently and I think that would give him a decent basis to be like yes this is a player who would joke about that. In which case the question is, upon seeing a claimed redcheck from a player like gav, is it reasonable to assume he's joking, or do you have to know that I didn't have the kill to make that assumption?
Also his vote on me is terrible given that he liked my reaction and the redcheck isn't a real redcheck. Easy way to distract from his owner suspicion.

Sonny wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 10:39 am Oh yay, I caught up to my own posts finally and am reminded why I had Owner as scummy. I don't know if I'm misremembering, but I feel as though there's been a game where she fake claimed vendor as scum. Would have to search tho.



I'm at Owner, Belzy, Bunny and fine to see where the Hawk thing goes.

Again, doesn't vote owner. He's not seeing where the hawk thing goes, because he already said he liked my reaction. The reaction test has happened. Finito.

Sonny wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 7:14 am 20+ pages behind and a run away wagon on Owner, so... things happened? X D

Sonny wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 7:33 am Lol wait, Owner is voting Tang after the Belzy shot?



[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

Of all the reasons to choose to finally vote owner, this is not the one I would have gone with, given that all of his earlier suspicion still stands. I think it shows a lack of progression in his read on her. Still, it would have to be his second bus in as many days, so I guess there's that going for him.

Sonny wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 10:12 am The review was of Nutella posts only like literally her ISO posts, there's been a lot more since then including the D1 wagon review I did where Owner's vote was a ? against her. Tbf there's been 1 thing I'd been expecting to see from Owner that has never come and it's a big long reads lists with weird reads that makes you squint your eyes but shows me she's reading things and considering. I've only seen her in one game recently and I was spectating, but a post just like that was what gave me enough to get a town read on her. She hasn't even come close to that imo. Maybe her role is legit, but I still think it's non-town.

And this is a pretty harsh bus, as well as alluding to the thing that Sonny's allegedly been waiting to see from her all this time.

TL;DR: If Sonny's scum, he would have had to make two busses, he did shade owner since D1, and I can believe that he got burnt out on an unfamiliar site. That said, he was very noncommital on nutella, he left himself a loophole to start town reading owner at any time and could have encouraged her to do that in scum chat, and his vote on me is terrible, as well as me just not seeing the kind of enthusiasm he normally has as town. So I'm putting it at about 76% mafia. No reason to think he's 3P.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:53 pm

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:51 pm Oh whoops I also forgot to mention Owner says she "needs to see more of Sonny's posts" when asked for initial impressions early on D1, and then does absolutely nothing to follow up on that ever again, which isn't a great look
Again, at risk of confirmation bias here

I appreciate your effort. You are going to die, but anything you can give us is very helpful! I'm not reading it carefully right now, but I promise I will read all your posts tomorrow if they flip town, and I will take them into account. I think you know I'm telling the truth because I flabbergasted you by listening to Ducky's dying words when I was deathtunneling you, then just dropped it the next day because Ducky told me to.

Yeah ngl I'm just trying to actually play the game I signed up for at this point instead of restating my claim 20 times, I'm not too fussed if people pay attention now or later xD I appreciate you saying this. Please don't use my arguments as like a 'hawk said this so it must be true' though (this goes for everyone lol) because once I'm dead I can't update my reads and also I might be wrong :')

Oh whoops I also forgot to mention Owner says she "needs to see more of Sonny's posts" when asked for initial impressions early on D1, and then does absolutely nothing to follow up on that ever again, which isn't a great look
Again, at risk of confirmation bias here

Owner ISO (this one's pretty juicy):

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 12:45 am not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

I don't think this is a post owner makes if LoMo is on her team. She's obviously not trying to protect all the PerC players, it seems like she's paranoid seeing it happen to someone else, and I think she thinks twice about making this post if LoMo is someone she actually wants alive. This is pretty weak though.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:26 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:20 am
"PerC players are being wagoned by unwelcoming Syndicate players" -> "This specific wagon on a PerC player is probably scum-driven because of its static nature" doesn't connect. If you don't like the LoMo wagon because there's no resistance, say so. Framing it as a PerC vs Syndicate thing reads as fishing for an appeal to emotion, and doesn't really make sense if your primary concern was the size and fluidity of the wagon. It does make sense if you have TMI on LoMo so I'm very happy to vote you.

That was a joke. I wasn't saying you guys were being unwelcoming, far from it. I'm sorry. I don't know what to say. You seem very strong willed, and I feel like I didn't mean to hit something.

I was just trying to catch up, but it seems I started a fire in you.

Owner seems kinda intimidated by Alison and I don't think they're teamed for this post and for basically everything Alison has done this game

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 2:06 am

Dana wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:57 am

Spoiler: show

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:56 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:01 pm

Dana wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:18 pm hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

This post has my attention. Don’t like it. Seems scummy.

Let’s get to know each other more so I can get rid of this icky feeling. What are you most excited about and what are you most nervous for?

Oof, this "icky feeling" pinged me...I wish I saved a screenshot of the votes to know if I mind melded with some people

Afaik actv is the only person that's voted me, but I'm happy to answer any questions or concerns you may have!

You have a gentle presence. I'm not use it. It feels nice.

Again, this is pretty weak, but I think it carries on the view that owner didn't feel secure in the thread and was happy to see Dana as someone accessible she could interact with. I don't think they're teamed from this.
This list of Act, Tangy, nutella, and sloonei as people who have pinged her. I don't think sloonei and Act can both be mafia here, at least.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:43 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 5:49 am The way nutella pushes Owner is very bad. nutella has a stubbornness and conviction when she is town that is not present in her push of Owner. I believe she wants the thread to see her pushing Owner but without actually lending bite to the push. Furthermore when she came under heavy fire she immediately amplified the theatricality of her Owner push ("say something game related or die"). But when an alternative push that isn't Owner comes up (Lost Monkey) she jumps straight onto it, while also winking and nodding at the suggestion that LoMo has TMI'd Owner to be town.

I think they are very compatible as buddies. You can call this preflip association if you want, but both of them have been individually scummy and nutella's progression on Owner doesn't make sense.

I think some people push on me because a lot of our thoughts don't line up or they have a hard time seeing what I'm saying. I must have missed the part about that to lomo.

LoMo talking about my play I feel he would do as either alignment. Or I feel like a lot of us from PerC will talk about each other it isn't something that one would necessarily use for just one alignment. I don't know. I feel LoMo talking about it either NAI or more potentially a town lean. I'm still really behind. I have read the first 6 pages out of 38. And I have read some of the conversations around when I have been posting in the thread, everything else I have not really read or had time to read.

This is a bit of a contradiction to what I said earlier, because here Owner is faced with the possibility that LoMo has TMIed her town and doesn't take it. Again, this is very weak, but this one would indicate that they were teamed. That said, for context, Owner and LoMo are both very very old players who have been playing together for so many years xD So I can believe that there's kinship there interfering, and I can believe that owner wants to read LoMo town if they're not on the same team.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 3:27 pm vote made?

Made is kind of in poe. I don't remember them, but there's others I don't remember.

This is such a nothing statement in contrast to owner previously having suspicion on nutella. Owner does then stealth vote made, which I believe likely makes Made town, because even if you're trying to bus the less active team member (made) over the more active/scumread team member (nutella), you want to take credit for that flip if it happens, and she didn't vote in the thread.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 2:14 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:01 pm

Dana wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:18 pm hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

This post has my attention. Don’t like it. Seems scummy.

Let’s get to know each other more so I can get rid of this icky feeling. What are you most excited about and what are you most nervous for?

I initially felt pinged by the icky feeling words, but reading it now it feels like Act is reacting to Dana's words as if to say she kind of sounds fake or it is sort of a blanket statement or could just be filler

- light town for Act

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:16 pm

Tangrowth wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:02 pm

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:01 pm

Dana wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:18 pm hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

This post has my attention. Don’t like it. Seems scummy.

Let’s get to know each other more so I can get rid of this icky feeling. What are you most excited about and what are you most nervous for?

What don't you like about it? Seems non AI to me.

Unlike your posts that felt genuine, this feels like a forced nicety. Among a couple other things, but I’m working that out in a convo with Dana! Stay tuned. Thoughts may change.

- scum!Act is different, she's town for me

I think this looks good for Act. Slapping a town read down and being like 'yeah scum Act is different' seems more like TMI than fabricating a read on a teammate.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 2:42 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 1:29 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 12:49 pm

Belzy wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 6:21 am Also hi, JJJ,

What exactly do you expect from a scum!Tang having an agenda, and having a lower comfort level, so far at a Day 1?

I will preface this by saying pure meta reads don't tend to play a huge role in my views, outside perhaps with Sloonei. So I can assign some "expectations" to a mafia-aligned Tangrowth, but take the following with many grains of salt. I would hardly build a case on this basis:

~ In the past, mafia Tangrowth has had a greater tendency to play with a tone of severity -- not necessarily "hostile", but more aggressive and less accommodating.
~ In that way, there'd be inherently less appearance of comfort and more of a sense of immediate and undue urgency.

Again, I don't care much about these notions. But I wanted to answer your question.

Are you saying that Tangrowth looks happier and more confident as town? Because the "sense of immediate and undue urgency" seems to imply a level of anxiety about being scum. But whenyou say that you don't care much about meta, are you suggesting that Tangrowth could simply be trying a different play style? And, if so, how are you reading Tangrowth right now?

I think Gnome could be town. I have not really used this read before, but I think as she scum is more fluffy or lacks questions that go somewhere. Most games she will talk about irl regardless of alignment, but I think as town she has some posts that are less scummier than others if that makes sense...idk, I dislike the number of times gnome gets misyeeted as town for just being herself

This read, on the other hand, looks like it could be on a teammate imo. Particularly that ending which is just a baseless AtE that I don't think owner makes on behalf of a townie. If I'm wrong here it's because of confirmation bias on my part, for which I apologise, but I think this is a decent interpretation.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 11:31 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:20 am @Owner of a Lonely Heart why did you initially deny targeting jay?

I wasn't ready to share majority of the details regarding my role. I thought seanzie was doing a fancy play and maybe knew I targeted gavial and was trying to trap me. His post felt like a trap. At the time, I wasn't the lead wagon so I didn't thing it was the right time to claim. You claim when you are going to likely die not when you might die.

This isn't the only post where owner refers to feeling like seanzie sets a trap for her. She's not in control of the thread here as this was part of her play during the whole claim mess, so I think this is a genuine emotion (see previous themes of owner not being secure in the thread) which looks really good for seanzie.

TL;DR, this looks fab for Seanzie, great for Alison and made, good for Act, decent for Dana and LoMo, and not great for Gnome.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:26 pm

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:21 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:16 pm Yah so your WIFOM wouldnt have worked yesterday. The poisoner didnt know you were exactly the healer to healer dodge and pick a different target than those in your town circle.

Yes
I know
I was always planning to claim today
Because then you sacrifice Long Con who has presumably been targeted partly because he's not towncore and they want the shot to go through (sorry bud)
And then you claim to have more shots that you don't want to waste on Long Con because he's not towncore
And then poisoner doesn't target towncore tomorrow

And you said you targeted Alison to heal her right?

Yes
I checked that the roleblock was a night action that would not interfere with my day action
I have already said this

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:16 pm Yah so your WIFOM wouldnt have worked yesterday. The poisoner didnt know you were exactly the healer to healer dodge and pick a different target than those in your town circle.

Yes
I know
I was always planning to claim today
Because then you sacrifice Long Con who has presumably been targeted partly because he's not towncore and they want the shot to go through (sorry bud)
And then you claim to have more shots that you don't want to waste on Long Con because he's not towncore
And then poisoner doesn't target towncore tomorrow

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:11 pm @hawkataine please remind me, did you claim healer yesterday or today? (Day 2 or Day 3)

I claimed healer today. I stated yesterday that I would not claim yesterday but could clear myself today. It did not work xD

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:56 am

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:53 am

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:48 am “ I can’t claim 2-shot healer anymore”, so... you intended to fake claim and Martin’s claim prevented you from doing so?

Yup

If I use my 1 shot to save someone in the town circle, I can no longer save anyone. The poisoner probably goes for someone who's not in the town circle on the next day, because they don't want their target to be saved again. That means I don't have to save that person on that day. Then when I claim 2-shot, they still can't risk poisoning anyone who might be worthy of my last heal shot. So it's the only way I could think of to protect as many of the top town reads as possible with only one shot

I see. So you were trying to WIFOM the poisoner even though the poisoner didnt know you were the healer in the first place.

I've said before that I've got the impression from what dizzy and marmot said that there was a way for the heal to be blocked or otherwise fail. So I absolutely did not want to claim before I had used the shot i.e. yesterday. Obviously once I claim then the poisoner knows I'm the healer and the WIFOM is good and ready to go.

started ISOing owner and the first post I absentmindedly picked out was one that proved she was teamed with nutella
solid work hawk
useful

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:48 am “ I can’t claim 2-shot healer anymore”, so... you intended to fake claim and Martin’s claim prevented you from doing so?

Yup

If I use my 1 shot to save someone in the town circle, I can no longer save anyone. The poisoner probably goes for someone who's not in the town circle on the next day, because they don't want their target to be saved again. That means I don't have to save that person on that day. Then when I claim 2-shot, they still can't risk poisoning anyone who might be worthy of my last heal shot. So it's the only way I could think of to protect as many of the top town reads as possible with only one shot

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:42 am

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:40 am Act can you verify for these nice people that the first thing town!hawk does upon receiving a 1-shot power role in a role madness setup is work out what fakeclaims could benefit town

I’d love to, but I’m not the one to ask I don’t know your town play vs. scum play. I also hate meta. So...lol

Fine, reject me like that </3 xD

R.e. orange, I'm voting her because she is Sonny and I scum read Sonny?? His vote on me was hella dubiously timed and very unsubstantiated, which is the biggest specific detail I can remember.

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:40 am

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:38 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:34 am

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:31 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:29 am

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:27 am Am I seriously getting yeeted because everyone misread my claim post and thought I was trying to retcon when I clarified
I mean I’ve made my peace with my fate but
Lol game

Have you done an ISO of orange? I know you’ve done a few, and I can’t remember

I’ve only done gnome, Dana, Martin and fable so far
Hopefully I will do owner, Sonny/orange, LoMo and you before day end just because that’s probably most useful for people who don’t know you guys
If there’s anything urgently missing from this list then yell but my time on Earth is limited xD

You’re voting for Orange, but you seen pretty firm on your scum read of Gnome. You’ve done an ISO of those you just listed, putting work into those reads, and you’re voting Orange?

I ISOed Sonny yesterday but didn’t really write it up, somewhere in my posts there’s a whole load of questions for him tho. And orange has def been scummy today, just not in a way I can cite lol

I mean, maybe if you did an ISO like the others you could cite it lol. I’m just trying to figure out where you ended up on Orange after looking into others. Is it a self-pres thing?

Yeah sorry I have always planned to ISO orange I just haven’t had time yet. Not self-pres, pretty sure JJJ only voted there to support me lol

Act can you verify for these nice people that the first thing town!hawk does upon receiving a 1-shot power role in a role madness setup is work out what fakeclaims could benefit town

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:34 am

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:31 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:29 am

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:27 am Am I seriously getting yeeted because everyone misread my claim post and thought I was trying to retcon when I clarified
I mean I’ve made my peace with my fate but
Lol game

Have you done an ISO of orange? I know you’ve done a few, and I can’t remember

I’ve only done gnome, Dana, Martin and fable so far
Hopefully I will do owner, Sonny/orange, LoMo and you before day end just because that’s probably most useful for people who don’t know you guys
If there’s anything urgently missing from this list then yell but my time on Earth is limited xD

You’re voting for Orange, but you seen pretty firm on your scum read of Gnome. You’ve done an ISO of those you just listed, putting work into those reads, and you’re voting Orange?

I ISOed Sonny yesterday but didn’t really write it up, somewhere in my posts there’s a whole load of questions for him tho. And orange has def been scummy today, just not in a way I can cite lol

Y’all I literally never claimed 2-shot healer
I said I couldn’t
Because it was part of a gambit I had considered
Christ alive

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:29 am

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:27 am Am I seriously getting yeeted because everyone misread my claim post and thought I was trying to retcon when I clarified
I mean I’ve made my peace with my fate but
Lol game

Have you done an ISO of orange? I know you’ve done a few, and I can’t remember

I’ve only done gnome, Dana, Martin and fable so far
Hopefully I will do owner, Sonny/orange, LoMo and you before day end just because that’s probably most useful for people who don’t know you guys
If there’s anything urgently missing from this list then yell but my time on Earth is limited xD

Am I seriously getting yeeted because everyone misread my claim post and thought I was trying to retcon when I clarified
I mean I’ve made my peace with my fate but
Lol game

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:15 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 7:03 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:00 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:01 pm @hawkataine, do you really believe your ISO of gnome or...?? Lol the only thing from gnome that feels unlike what I know of her, is the sarcasm. I don’t recall gnome ever being this snarky and sarcastic in past games lol. Like, gnome’s got sass! Lol

It was fun, lol.

Aside from Hawk, who else do you think is scum?

Right now, I'm thinking that the scum could include bad bunny, martin, and made.

You think I’m teamed with made and/or Martin?

I mean sure lol
[VOTE: orangecrush] aubergine

Also hate how orange comes in today scum reading me from the start when I had pretty much universal town leans on D1 (where she’s reading) and she managed to successfully town read me when she repped into the one game we’ve payed together

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:59 am

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:54 am Sorry act I should clarify that gnome hasn’t been specifically scummy post-by-post, it’s more that her focuses and progressions have been weird. Hence why I think you have to ISO her to see that at the moment because it’s the easiest way to track what she’s been commenting on and what she’s been avoiding. But also I’m bad at reading her too xD

Well that’s what I mean too...her focus, her questions, her behavior has felt SO scummy to me in past games that I just don’t know where to even look with her. Your confidence and focus on gnome as someone who knows her has grabbed my attention because maybe you know more about her play than I do.

Yeah I mean I would be questioning her if she would respond to anything I’ve said with anything but a wolf emoji, and therefore I reserve the right to suspect her. Maybe you’ll have more luck tomorrow

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:57 am

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:55 am Also sorry JJJ for making you into a meme, it might subconsciously happen again but I promise to feel bad about it xD

It's fine, I've recapped other people's posts in cheeky under-written italics in this very thread. I'm just being a baby.

If this phase didn't have a 10-vote wagon on your head right now, and you felt like you could place a vote of your own as normal and that it'd matter more -- where would you put it?

If Sonny was still here it’d be on him and I’d be trying to make him answer my questions from yesterday
So I guess orange, but also I’ve played with her much less than I have Sonny

Also sorry JJJ for making you into a meme, it might subconsciously happen again but I promise to feel bad about it xD

Sorry act I should clarify that gnome hasn’t been specifically scummy post-by-post, it’s more that her focuses and progressions have been weird. Hence why I think you have to ISO her to see that at the moment because it’s the easiest way to track what she’s been commenting on and what she’s been avoiding. But also I’m bad at reading her too xD

Yeah tbh on that note of role-based alignment spec, it was my thought as soon as there was hints of duplicates that
a) many roles will be duplicated and they are therefore not going to be alignment indicative because either you have every mafia have a duplicate role, which is outing, or you have 2 of every role, which is outing
b) this is a great trap that the mods have set for players who want to read by mechanics instead of play

Oh also JJJ made a post that was like “lol hawk is 3P hunting just like owner” which is a bad take for a number of reasons:
- I don’t remember owner doing this level of reading or substantiating ever
- It’s already been raised that we should eventually be concerned about 3P, and I clearly won’t be around for that so I’m getting it in early
- If I was mafia I would be 3P hunting in my scum chat and not the thread right now. Mafia need all the help they can get.

Gotta go climbing again but I’ll do some more ISOs before day end just to annoy everyone who wishes they could daykill me xoxo

@Actvscenei The posts I pulled on Dana are just the ones that jumped out at me as containing AI stuff. I did comment on her reads lists, anything I didn’t quote just didn’t speak to me I guess xD our brains make reads in very different ways so all I can say is I’m fairly happy with my read there

Regarding gnome, possibly the posts I quoted are not the most concerning thing. What really stuck out to me was the number of questions she asked exclusively about owner yesterday in a way that didn’t seem to line up with her progressions. I’d definitely recommend looking through her ISO yourself, it’s not too long and contains very little lol. Also I’d expect a little bit more doubt from town!gnome here, her progression on me vs Martin today makes little sense and as far as I can tell the post that eventually stopped her from questioning whether I was scum was the “pretend I’m confirmed town” post I made, which she misread. But maybe I’m just salty that she’s being so close-minded. I look forward to laughing from the grave (okay I’m definitely salty). If you could sanity check me here and talk a bit about her meta that’d really help me tbh

Oh also that one time I was 3P in a game this size that I know Dizzy played, I had a 1-shot BP. So like, yet another theory for where the kill went.

Allcrab wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 11:44 am Bunny and Hawk are village this my village circle so far and I am naming it the animal kingdom in my readslist.

I believe this being two reads fable feels able to make having not read much of the thread or been around that much

Allcrab wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 12:05 pm Also finished the ISO not super whelmed by lomo the arguments with nutella (I haven't read nutella yet but I don't super like what I've read from them either which makes this weird) were kinda weak and the rest doesn't give me a strong impression. I will say lomo winds up in people's sights very often they're not wrong when they say that so not too interested in hitting the throttle on them but they remain PoE for me.

I think this is probably not teamed with nutella, I don't think you do that weird 'yeah I will scum read nutella' thing if you're a teammate about to bus

Allcrab wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 12:26 pm Okay nutella's ISO is pretty fluffy for how big it is but it's not so bad as to warrant them being a runaway wagon like this so that's pinging me after I do Owner I need to see what everyone's reasons are for voting there.

Not a good look, but probably a reasonable one.

Allcrab wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 12:34 pm Owner can definitely be a wolf they're not going after anyone the way they usually do as village and they feel less paranoid than usual.

This is a harsh D1 bus with nutella on the block already. However Fable does then go into some detail on wanting to bus the lower poster mafia (I think, my brain has started to melt a bit), so maybe he's just annoyed here?

Allcrab wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:55 pm Animal Kingdom
Bunny
Hawk
Tangrowth

Kingdom Outskirts
JJJ
Sonny
Gavial

Plants
Lomo
Nutella

Fungi
Owner
Alison
Made

From what I've read so far

I can believe that Fable is sheeping Wisty on the Alison read, and the rest of this looks pretty fine tbh. I think made is so low down because this was post-nutella vote

Allcrab wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 5:36 pm Still don't think hawk is a wolf tbh I think they've tried to be more fair in their assertations than they normally would be when they do rand wolf.

Does the suspicion on them go past not voting nutella or is there more I don't know?

I'm trying so hard not to just town read the people who town read me
But also I think this is a good post, but also I appreciate that it can totally be argued in the other direction

Allcrab wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 6:43 am Also JJJ trying to read gnome is hilarious I'm def not good at reading gnome either but I wanna lean village on them I think they feel pretty clueless has to what's going on and would be more aggresive and would give more hints of TMI if they were wolf but that's just a guess.

This feels reasonable and then towards the end stops feeling so natural. I could see gnome/fable tbh.

Allcrab wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:23 pm Hi so it's extremely unlikely owner did what they said they did so that's neat.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

I don't know if this claim is at all necessary given it achieves nothing other than bussing owner even harder than before, and just puts fable in the spotlight for duplicating a claim from someone townread.

TL;DR: I'm super torn on this one. I don't have good meta on fable. I think this reminds me of his town play, but I really couldn't swear by that. There's very little here tbh. But I do think some of the more definitive moments of his game (claiming, his D1 entrance) have been pretty town. I'd say like 30% mafia, no comment on 3P.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 11:08 pm Well, up until a few minutes ago I didn't have any significant interest in anyone in particular being deleted.

I read through Allcrab's ISO and I felt that knowing Owner's alignment could help me get a better idea of whether Allcrab is w/w compatible with Nutella or not. Obviously, if Owner is mafia, then I have doubts that Allcrab is mafia as well.

This is a really weird reason to vote owner and one that I haven't seen him mention at all today

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:16 pm @Long Con

Unless there's another 1-shot healer, I want to put you on notice that you may be actually dying from poison.

I don't think there's fake poisons given that I'm 1-shot, though I realize that can also be indicative of having the healing ability split up. I doubt that though because there's, to my knowledge, no way to prevent two healers from accidentally healing the same person on the same day.

In which Martin thinks there will be another healer

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:54 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:38 pm Anyone:

Why is hawkataine town?

Their entrance gave me the impression of being disorganized in a non-wolfy way, such as mentioning that they forgot their town-leans.

They also had similar thoughts as I (though not same reasons) on tangrowth.

However, I haven't found anything positive on them being town as of late. I was mildly disturbed when Hawk last quoted me awhile ago:

Spoiler: show

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 8:59 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 6:36 pm Anyways I'm caught up, but I think I should re-read some of the last 10 pages tbh since I didn't really feel much progress or inspiration.

Though I would like to know if anyone here could give me a good descriptor of Belzy in general. Or a comparison to another player like them.

Also I'm not sure how to feel about Seanzie's recent jump-in but presuming none of the players who responded to him are mafia I wanna say he's likely town.

I think this is probably a good post that I like? Evaluating Seanzie's alignment dependent on other people seems like a townie idea to have. This is incredibly weak but whatever.
Update: after I finished the thread I came back to write comments and I'm actually more tempted to lean the other way with this. It's strange to imply that seanzie could be teamed with some of these players but not that he could be town while they're mafia? I can't quite describe exactly why this upsets me lol

It felt cheap, but I wasn't entirely sure if this was town just not thinking intuitively or a wolf performance in order to shade. I mean, I've done or thought stupid things myself before.

They also called it incredibly weak but kept on thinking about it with an "update". For which they don't do an "update" for the rest of the original post from where this is quoted from.

I tend to quote every post, write responses as I go, paste into one post, and then proof read. I just didn't know what I had been thinking the first time, hence the update.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 10:30 pm I'll clarify: I don't think there's two healers, much less with different shot amounts.

If the poisoner is 3P, and there's two healers (with a collective 3 shots) for some god-forsaken-reason, then I have no clue why the 3P is granted no meaningful extra-mechanical effect or advantage (towards their ends as a result of themselves) on the game until EoD3. Or, if the healers are town and mafia aligned; and that the mafia healer only heals mafia (either intentionally or per role limitation), then the theoretical 3P Poisoner in a different hypothetical scenario (where both healers had not died before using their abilities) could be delayed up to EoD4.

This could be delayed even more if the poisoner and mafia night-kill happen to coincide.

Which, when considering the above for a game of this size with my limited experience, seems absurd and intends to make the 3P Poisoner a glorified survivor. They could go almost (if not the entirety of) the whole game without having any sort of mechanical effect, and they could just lose the game if they got off on simply the wrong foot. I'm inclined to think the poisoner is Mafia, and they have limited shots just as a 1-shot healer does. That being probably Hawk given their claim.

There's only one healer, and for anyone who doubts me they can test who the real healer is by seeing Long Con die. Me? I don't have to test that. I know who the healer is, and its not Hawk.

I feel like this is an angry 3P post tbh xD cannot shake this tinfoil.

Martin's another one who was off-wagon on D1, and the overriding impression I got from his ISO was that he kept giving out town reads and justifying them by saying nothing other than "ah yes I have also thought this". It's just a real sneaky way of constantly telling you he's town, and it doesn't sit well with me. That said, he doesn't have anything particularly incriminating with either owner or nutella, except voting off-wagon D1. Also Alison town reads him.

TL;DR: I don't trust him, but I don't see much obvious mafia potential here. I think I'm somewhere around 43% mafia, 56% 3P. No, those don't add up. I have no idea what system I'm using.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 2:26 pm

hawkataine wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 2:25 pm I forgot to do the third page of Dana's ISO because it was getting too long lol. I have now read it and I don't think I have anything incredibly pressing to add. I think she might have some 3P potential, as someone trying not to draw attention, but nothing too concerning.

Worth consideration.

Yes sorry by 'nothing too concerning' I meant there's nothing that would explicitly lead to a 3P read on her. I do feel like she has been asking a lot of mechanics questions which might mean she feels like she has a lot of responsibility, but this really is just a vibes stretch. I'd put her 3P potential at like 35%.

I forgot to do the third page of Dana's ISO because it was getting too long lol. I have now read it and I don't think I have anything incredibly pressing to add. I think she might have some 3P potential, as someone trying not to draw attention, but nothing too concerning.

Dana ISO:

Dana wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:45 pmthe wolves are so good at gaining everyones trust and then they just turn around and kill us all

This was a response to gnome which I think I initially town read Dana for, and I think I'll stick by that for now. I think she gets buddied by gnome quite hard, I can't be bothered to quote them all, and I'm interested to hear from her on why she sussed owner for pocketing her but not gnome? @Dana why did you feel there was a difference there?

Dana wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:54 pm Alison seems to kind of roll up and somehow very quickly get a handle on what's going on. from what I know of her, she seems to be super logical and analytical which makes her a strong player. I trust her for the most part, but still a little warily for now

Alison had stated a town read on Dana before now, very early in the game. I think this is a good look that fits with someone who is like... you're right... but how >_>

Dana wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 2:09 am

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 2:06 am

Dana wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:57 am

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:56 am

Spoiler: show

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:01 pm

Dana wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:18 pm hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

This post has my attention. Don’t like it. Seems scummy.

Let’s get to know each other more so I can get rid of this icky feeling. What are you most excited about and what are you most nervous for?

Oof, this "icky feeling" pinged me...I wish I saved a screenshot of the votes to know if I mind melded with some people

Afaik actv is the only person that's voted me, but I'm happy to answer any questions or concerns you may have!

[/spoiler]

You have a gentle presence. I'm not use it. It feels nice.

Wait that's so kind... Are you trying to pocket me? bc it might be working

Dana wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 5:16 am nutella - im very tempted to sheep the ppl who know her better but I feel like there isn't really a consensus on her there so... v confused. Mac seemed to go back and forth a lil bit on her but is currently voting her so maybe the consensus is wolf. idk I am very tired and this is taking too many brain cells

Owner of a Lonely Heart - very very confused about the whole upgaymers/spicy thing. also felt like she might have been trying to pocket me a lil bit which makes me sus. potentially an okay day 1 sheep vote? aaaaaaaaaaaaa

Followed up by an owner vote that was admittedly very late in the day. I could see the angle here that she was trying not to vote nutella, but I really don't think these two posts look like she's teamed with owner, plus not voting nutella achieves pretty much nothing when you vote a different scum buddy instead.

Her read on made from the same post, for reference:

Dana wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 4:20 pm I still need to catch a few pages up before eod1 but I want to look more into Alison's belief yesterday that Nutella and owner were wolf partners

Yeah I really don't think that's how you enter D2 if you're teamed with both of them, I also like the continuation of the respect/town read of Alison here.

Post 2570: https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 61#p796461 is far too long to quote for what is essentially a comment on vibes, but I really like her progressions here and the posts she provides as evidence which seems like legitimate note taking

Dana wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 1:28 am

Gavial wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 1:25 am Might as well claim it before I go to bed

ME TARGETING HAWK IS THE REASON THERE WAS NO NIGHT KILL LAST NIGHT!

Alright good night everybody!

do you know this or are you just assuming this bc there wasn't a kill so you think it must have been her?

I think this looks good but I understand if nobody else does lmao

TL;DR: I think she has good interactions with owner, especially, and is unlikely to be teamed, as well as showing evidence of consistent though processes and progression. I'd say around 17% mafia.

@Actvscenei I know you asked me about this one