The Syndicate

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:23 pm What is meaning?

nut has spotted something from you that she's confident is out of your wolf range
I have spotted a plethora of things that I'm confident are out of spf's wolf range

If nut's experience with you has meaning
If my experience with spf has meaning
It's in me and Visor ffs

You two spend a whole cycle telling me "you don't know Dizzy so stfu"
Then this

I decide it's time to do my meaningful thing of the game and this happens.

Dizzy.

The defining trait of spf's wolf game: She always knows what she's going to say long before she says it.
I get that a good amount of this might be a little hard to buy as out of her wolf range without experience. I'll leave comments on parts that I think are particularly accessible.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 8:02 pm i can't really explain my feelings about c4 without getting into meta, so i kinda regret outing that read in the first place, but i liked that he dropped a silent vote on me, paused for a while, and then brought attention to his silent vote again when nobody responded to it. it felt like he was circling around me to see how i would react, and the fact that he made a point of bringing up his vote ~again~ after being ignored made me feel like his read carried real conviction/concern behind it

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 12:19 am tangygrowth burst into a relatively tense thread and immediately became a beacon of positive energy. her primary concern wasn't to ~blend in~ or spew out a bunch of takes, but rather, to change the atmosphere of the thread and to make sure that everyone was still having fun. even as she was doing that, she zero'd in on nutella for a little while and made a point of outing a read on her (which i found villagery, or at least indicative of tangy trying to gradually get more comfortable with the game by focusing on someone that she already knows)

the strong tone paired with the lack of posts that felt focused on an agenda made me think that she was most likely just a villager. typical caveat that this read will change if tangy's trajectory doesn't go where i anticipate it will go

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 12:40 am when i think of a wolf that is trying to "blend in" with a thread, i think of someone that's trying to match the vibe or the overall atmosphere of the thread they're in. a wolf in RVS will often be performatively casual/jokey because it's what they perceive as "normal" behavior. a wolf right outside of RVS will often force themselves to take stances or out reads because it's what they feel they "should" do. there are a lot of talented wolves that win games by mirroring other people and doing all the "right" things at the "right" moments

i think it's fair to say that tangy's posts up until the ones at the top of page 4 were "blending in" (i forgot she made any posts before that point TBQH), so that lends credibility to your point and diminishes mine a little bit

but i was specifically thinking about tangy's string of posts at the top of page 4 - she entered a thread that was in the middle of some pretty intense/divisive conversation, and there were a lot of reads/stances being thrown out. tangy's posts around that time were extremely casual and extremely relaxed - she expressed happiness at being in the game, she asked a few softball questions about my meta (among other things), but her commentary of the game itself was minimal and she seemed disinterested in giving her takes on the stuff that was going on, barring her read on nutella. her posts were casual in nature, but they were distinct from the vibe in the rest of the thread that is fairly unusual for wolves who are trying to dip their toes into the thread

kinda thinking that i'm clearing tangy too easily after writing this out tbh, but i do think that she's rand town so far

You can see how all of the pieces of the final argument can be derived from the first post and at the same time it's an organic discovery that truly required time to fully fruit

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 3:09 pm other misc stuff:

-i feel almost obligated to out a read on hally, but i'm honestly not sure what i think about them yet. i had some early concern w/the read they outed on amy and also a concern about their read on nutella coming from a place of TMI, but the rest of their posts are fine. there's nothing obviously alignment indicative about their posts in general and i'm kinda just in "wait and see" mode (this is also my current feeling about alison/dyachei/KZA/and zapp, to a lesser extent)

-i originally voted for gavial because he just felt uncomfortable. i had just gotten out of playing a game w/gavial where we were both villagers, and he was a huge source of energy in that game, and he was constantly trying to solve and bounce thoughts off of other people. his opening posts in this game felt meek in comparison - https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 87#p796787 felt like an attempt to blend in w/the vibe of the thread, and i couldn't tell if https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 8#p796658c was a joke post or a real read, but it felt equally stilted to me either way. his catch-up posts leave me feeling the same way

-i've come around to nutella most likely being a villager after thinking about it more

the rest of my thoughts are a little jumbled and i probably forgot to mention some stuff that's on my mind, so AMA

The sheer number of moving parts here would normally be enough for me on its own

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 5:41 pm lol i was just thinking about how it's weird that i dont really feel strongly about the trio of you/outed wolf/sunbae in either direction. the narrative of games like these tend to revolve around players like you three, and i feel like i've existed in a separate space from you three so far in this game. i don't know if that means anything

Trust me when I say this line in particular is just not a thing she bothers with as a wolf.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:28 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:21 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:21 pm alison's a wolf lol
so you agree with me now?
i mostly just said that as a gut reaction to her post where she said she was keeping an open mind about gavial - something about it instinctually rubbed me the wrong way and i felt like calling her out and seeing how she reacted would help me read her, but her reaction was pretty bland

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:30 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:56 pm I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.
^^i actually do take issue with this post from alison, because i feel like she was trying to generalize all of the suspicion against gavial as being related to him being "anti-town", when it was very clear that the majority of suspicion toward him had nothing to do w/him being anti-town or pro-town. it felt like a post that was intended to steer the thread consensus in a specific direction, which isn't implausible for alison to do as a villager, but the generalization grinded my gears a bit

She wouldn't wait this long to say this and hedge on it. One or the other.

That's D1.

In the morn

Yeah the fact is that she's still just light years out of her wolf range and in so many non-trivial ways
@nutella I'll give you Dizzy if you'll give me spf
The fact is that not only have I always correctly read her, but the first game we played together was the only game where we rolled v/v and I didn't lock her town on D1.

@Dyslexicon @nutella spf's still probably just town
Ez game

Actually you know what
Sick legacy
Someone who spends the entire endgame parroting the same thing is someone who knows he can win by doing that
[VOTE: outed wolf] aubergine

Contrary to popular belief, I have posts

Anything that I can think of I've already said
Sorry to disappoint

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:47 pm Anything else you think worth pointing out?

Was this question really written with the intent of figuring something out
What kind of answer were you looking for
Want me to multiquote my entire ISO or smth

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:21 pm whats your confidence level on reading spf here

would you bet the game on it?

Would be 100 in most games
No idea what to do in these zomg situations
Do I just stick with the 100 or do I need to mega trustfall everything

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:21 pm talk to me about dizzy more

What Dizzy said about his D3
The reaction was incredibly raw in hindsight

You wanna tell me if my reasons for any particular thing suck?

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:13 pm well yes you are likely to die today, but in the event you dont who would be your top 2 to kill

Idfk
I'm still completely lost and figuring it out would take energy that I need elsewhere
You-know-where

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:08 pm im surprised youve seen my posts

so you think all of us are villagers

... you have to pick two to kill that arent you?

Significantly more likely one but yes

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:58 pm how am i supposed to find you as a villager lol

you havent posted in 3 days phases basically

This has been half of your posts in the last two cycles
The horse is dead

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:56 pm so whos the wolf then

out of nutella, myself and dyslexicon

I think nut's town
I think you're town
I think Dizzy's town

As you can see we have a problem here

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:54 pm is spf still a villager iyo?

Yes
As you can see there's a problem here

I'm not doing this
@nutella where do I vote

https://artofproblemsolving.com/community/c49h1981947
I wouldn't count on it being useful tho

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:00 pm SPF where is this other C4 wolf game that isn't cov

One sec I'll grab it

I mean I can see some of spf's stuff as trying to appeal to my godread of her

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:30 pm hello

i will do my best to avoid responding to suspicion toward me today, because it tends to irk me a bit and distracts me from doing the solving that would be beneficial for the entire game. (although i will towncase myself if it would be beneficial overall - i think the frustration i had yesterday stemmed from the feeling that nobody had closely read my progression on dya, which is the thing in this game that i feel should clear me as a villager in just about every world.)

i have a limited amount of free time this week especially, and that really cripples my ability to do my ~process~ in the same way that i like to do when i have a lot of time on my hands. even so, here's my plan for today:

we have three chops left. if i can narrow down the wolves in this game to two possible names, then i can allow myself to be chopped and force everyone else to follow my legacy once i flip. the goal for today, then, is to narrow down my POE to exactly two names. i'll try to provide an answer for this at the end of these 48 hours

Like I know she knows I'd normally lock her town for this post

But what she says about how she busses is true

I get that she was ironically milking it for towncred by saying that she always milks her busses for towncred and didn't here
But she waited so long to do it and she doesn't do that as a wolf
I just don't think that's a detail she thinks of

I hate it here

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:58 pm c4, will you have a firm answer on my alignment by the EOD? not "i would maybe kill SPF in f3", i mean: "SPF is town" or "SPF is mafia"

I'll try
I'll probably take my time if I do though
Because, you know

outed wolf wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:54 pm but you think they are more likely a wolf than me/nutella?

so walk me through your thoughts on them then

Right now I'm thinking "most likely slot I'm messing up" only because of my relative lack of reevaluation, nothing to do with how towny/wolfy she or any of her interactions with wolves are
You just caught me when I hadn't finished my rounds is all

outed wolf wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:51 pm wait so you think spf is a wolf now?

No

outed wolf wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:49 pm you have two kills to win the game c4, who are they?

Dizzy spf

I still think both your and nut's treatment of dya was too batshit to be bussing
Moreso nut's

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:46 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:43 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:31 pm it's probably c4

his pivot off of dizzy and onto you after refusing to entertain doing so for days seems manufactured
I didn't pivot onto her
What
i mean you finally said you would look into her bc you finally admitted dizzy looks good
you refused to even consider her for days

Because it took days for Dizzy to post the thing about his Marl reaction and the derp potential
Or I'm blind

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:31 pm it's probably c4

his pivot off of dizzy and onto you after refusing to entertain doing so for days seems manufactured

I didn't pivot onto her
What

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:43 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:43 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:41 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:36 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:10 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:59 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:54 pm

Uh.

I don't understand this question. That depends on what correctly is, and it depends who is in F3 and it depends on how the game looks then and also how much work you are willing to put in.
I'm saying that I don't think I have a great reason to fight for survival.
if this is the case, why even bother making a self-preservation vote at the end of yesterday? why not let yourself die?
I don't have to fight tooth and nail to type out [ vote ] Arete [ /vote ]
right, but you're making it sound like you think it would be beneficial for you to die before the f3. at the same time, you made a move at the end of yesterday that guaranteed that you would survive for another day. i'm just curious if dying in this game is something that you actually want to happen
Won't try to stop it if it's written on the walls is all
but you did try to stop it, by putting the majority on arete. that's my point :P

I think I'm in a sliiiiightly worse position today than yesterday

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:41 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:36 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:10 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:59 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:54 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:52 pmWell if you're town, do you really trust me to vote correctly in F3?
Uh.

I don't understand this question. That depends on what correctly is, and it depends who is in F3 and it depends on how the game looks then and also how much work you are willing to put in.
I'm saying that I don't think I have a great reason to fight for survival.
if this is the case, why even bother making a self-preservation vote at the end of yesterday? why not let yourself die?
I don't have to fight tooth and nail to type out [ vote ] Arete [ /vote ]
right, but you're making it sound like you think it would be beneficial for you to die before the f3. at the same time, you made a move at the end of yesterday that guaranteed that you would survive for another day. i'm just curious if dying in this game is something that you actually want to happen

Won't try to stop it if it's written on the walls is all

spf is my new haven't-done-due-diligence-in-longest-period-of-time slot

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:10 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:59 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:54 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:52 pmWell if you're town, do you really trust me to vote correctly in F3?
Uh.

I don't understand this question. That depends on what correctly is, and it depends who is in F3 and it depends on how the game looks then and also how much work you are willing to put in.
I'm saying that I don't think I have a great reason to fight for survival.
if this is the case, why even bother making a self-preservation vote at the end of yesterday? why not let yourself die?

I don't have to fight tooth and nail to type out [ vote ] Arete [ /vote ]

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:49 am - The day the jailkeep happened, I thought I had really solved that it must be Marl or Vulgard as one of the scum. I solved that forgetting that scum would not be free to kill Amy as they pleased, which I didn't think about. That in itself you can call a derp moment, but I'm fine if people want to wave that off as NAI. What is AI imo is that I had a real reaction to thinking this and then realising my mistake. I also had a real reaction to Marl going off at me and immediately realised that Marl was not it. The thing is that I wouldn't have a reaction to this in real time if I was scum and already knew. And then there's the discrepancy between my inner experience and what I express. But I think my reaction can be traced with how I post.

Never considered this

...

What if it's me?

Like even without me thinking it's you do you trust me to do due diligence

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:54 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:52 pmWell if you're town, do you really trust me to vote correctly in F3?
Uh.

I don't understand this question. That depends on what correctly is, and it depends who is in F3 and it depends on how the game looks then and also how much work you are willing to put in.

I'm saying that I don't think I have a great reason to fight for survival.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:53 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:49 pm I thought dya's post was towny in a vacuum and wanted to know if it was in their wolf range. It was. Conversation ended there.
I see. That is a reasonable answer.

So you are saying that you would town read Dya if they didn't?

Yes.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:51 pm mind giving me an overview of where your head is at, c4? who do you townread the most confidently? what are you worried about? who's the wolf?

nut's just town, that's the one where I refuse to budge the most. Search "dya" in her ISO. Read all the hard toggles. Not w/w ever. Not that anyone needed me to say this lol

Also think Visor's EoD4 panic didn't really look w/w with dya and dya TMI'd Visor.

Also think you're obvious. Kinda like in HPM3 where I had silent tinfoils throughout because of how small the PoE was and some of your scummy-looking reads but they all died every time I actually read your posts.

I'll go back and read that post where Dizzy listed the reasons he was town, but I keep ending up here.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:33 pm I do think Nut and SPF are both town. Whoever of Visor and c4 are town, show it unmistakably please. I'm not dragging this to F3.

Well if you're town, do you really trust me to vote correctly in F3?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:28 pm c4, I'll repeat this and ask for thoughts:

dyachei wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 9:12 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 9:11 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 9:09 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 9:08 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 9:02 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 8:44 pm maybe stop trying to tell me how to play a light fucking game
Someone tell me if dya has any kind of history taking criticism to their wolf game personally
Or I could just

Hey @dyachei
Do you take criticism to your wolf game personally?
I don't take criticisms personally, if that's what you're asking? I do however hate being told how to play mafia. It's a pet peeve of mine
Pet peeve regardless of alignment?
yes regardless of alignment
The interaction just drops off after this. And I don't understand why v!c4 would assume it being taking criticism for their wolf game specifically rather than just their game in general.

I thought dya's post was towny in a vacuum and wanted to know if it was in their wolf range. It was. Conversation ended there.

[VOTE: Arete] aubergine

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:55 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:54 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:52 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:49 pm Here for a few seconds
I don't want me in F3 either
who's the wolf
If I knew I probably wouldn't blank every time my vote asks me "why am I a wolf"
give me the first 2 guesses off the top of ur head

Dizzy if I somehow payed enough attention to have good reads
Arete if the people who actually did know what they're doing

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:52 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:49 pm Here for a few seconds
I don't want me in F3 either
who's the wolf

If I knew I probably wouldn't blank every time my vote asks me "why am I a wolf"

Here for a few seconds
I don't want me in F3 either

Vulgard wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:30 am Also I veto the Arete wagon. I don't have a solid read on them yet, they could be town. When I wolfread them, I'll make sure they die d1 because otherwise I'm the n1 kill. Unless you think we're W/W, I guess.

I mean
Seems like a pretty unambiguous pocket attempt

The arrogance is screaming "Hey Arete, I'm gonna read you correctly this game"

I'm working off of memory alone on my perception of the Arete/Vulgard dynamic, so if I'm getting anywhere productive here, I'll need to actually dive back in.

Okay well now I feel dumb for asking everyone where I might be making a mistake

*Them

Back for a moment
Would like to say that if I didn't drop off in later days I'd probably be a wolf lol

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:23 pm @c4e5g3d5 i was just looking into your d1 iso a bit and something i'm confused about is your progression (i know, i know) on spf

you open with wolfreading her, start to explain that she's one of the easiest players for you to read, and then you stop mentioning her for a while and in fact have a long string of posts with the gradually built up initials reads lists that dont include her at all even though shes apparently easy for you to read? and eventually you post a full length reads lists and she's in the middle section of it. and then yet later you pop in and declare that she's town

i also remember when dya asked you to elaborate on this and you refused. was that theater?

I referred dya to the explanation I gave Dizzy five seconds earlier, not refusal

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:21 am
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:02 pm I don't see where to go other than [VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine
This will probably start another messy argument that I really shouldn't be starting rn
Not really. But if you have questions, I can try to answer.
I don't know if it helps, but I can point out that those who have had suspicion against me are the exact players who have not played with me before, and those who aren't worried are the ones who know me. This has happened in many games already. So let me know what you're struggling with still, if you care to do so.

Thumbs up
Not specifically about your play atp so I'm not sure how much there is for you to do in terms of clarifying your PoV
If you think I'm making a listake somewhere else that's another question

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:48 pm @c4e5g3d5 hello what you got

Kinda gotten nowhere new

Your constant switching on dya isn't w/w
dya pocketed Zack
dya TMI'd Visor
Vulgard pocketed Arete
spf generally obvious

I'd be doing more due diligence if I weren't busy with you know what
That's probably not true

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:28 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:07 pmEvery time you say "Dizzy doesn't bus", and every time I say "but that's not bussing", we explore no new ground. Is there some nuance here I'm not picking up? Like I said, my hand is yours to hold.
That's not what either me or Nut have been saying though. I do bus if it puts my team in a good position. But I don't connect a widely town read teammate to a widely scum read and likely to go down teammate for absolutely no reason when I don't have to. That is outside of what I would do as mafia. The read is just genuine, and in fact a very typical discovery for my town game. I think Sunbae to actually dare to go for it more than I did at the time.

I don't understand why you're voting me or what problems you have with me exactly. So let me know what more I can do, if anything, about that.

Still largely stumped on where else to go is all
If it really just ends with Arete tomorrow then yell at me in post all you want

bronana wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:55 pm c4, basically here I have SPF/Mark's meta-read and vulgard's treatment of him didn't seem w/w. I don't know how much he busses as a wolf, when I glanced at cov it seemed like "very little" but who knows. I think nothing of how dya turned on him, that is within w/w range for them, especially when he was pushing dya first.

I've bussed exactly once, at a point when my partner was already mech outed. Don't actually use this though, I have two wolf games lol

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:42 pm @c4e5g3d5 Did you work hard to get Dya chopped on D2?

I'm not great at campaigning for things, but I did call him a wolf, and I did try to get votes off of Alison by pinging people with my reasons. That's usually the extent I can manage.

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