The Syndicate

Now, I make no claim to have buried TSP. That would be a misrepresentation of reality. What is true is this: 1. i tried pushing him on day 2, and in fact lost my shit at him, 2. he tried very clearly to placate me when i started attacking him.

Spoiler: show

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:36 am well now I’m sitting on Gira / ran / X yeah

Abby is just in the archetype of people I like to suspect [is the reality of it]

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:29 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:03 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:07 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:27 am Could it be that Mac was killed because he was wrong, not because he was right?
If that were the case, I would expect he'd be killed for having an incorrect townread and not necessarily an incorrect scumread, like if he were hard shielding a wolf.

(hes gonna hate that I'm saying this since it risks tearing up the towncore, but I mean from a wolf perspective it's more beneficial to kill a loud townie with thread pull who accidentally townreads a wolf imo)

But I legit just think he was killed for being super towny, and I'm not reading into whether his reads were accurate or not, beyond what I already formed opinions on while he was around.
i like highly disagree with this from a theory POV, but as this is all speculative there's no use to it

but to use a real concrete example from this game, mac was hard townreading me and now that he's dead you have shitters like bereft and tsp and insomnia wanting to kill me for no actual discernable reason. mac has never failed to recognize me as town when i am town, he would be shutting that down immediately, he is probably cringing at the fact that there is an attempted push on me at all

but no one actually cares who dead players were townreading. as far as the wolves are concerned i am now a viable mis-elim and there is almost certainly one who is trying for that

insomnia demonstrably can't actually read me and so him suspecting me feels the most believable of the 3
If I were given the ability to flip any five players in the game immediately you would not be on that list

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:29 pm To be clear

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:29 pm But also I agree with the analysis

Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:38 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:31 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:10 pm imho it's rrrrarely that simple and only an exceptionally ballsy/crazy scum player makes a push that direct to save a teammate

and if anything my knowledge of TSP is that he's very, very heavy handed with the distancing as mafia

a lot of what he posts comes across as towny in demeanor but i think his votes and pushes are objectively wolfsiding and the more he does it the more likely it becomes that he's just utterly full of it and trying to push a scum agenda
While I’m on it 1) I think TSP-spew narratives have been fairly well discredited [hopefully] but in my defense 2) second and third paragraphs seem contradictory to me
not really it's a matter of timing and positioning

you can throw shade on your partners all day but still make sure your main votes are pushing scum agenda

and atp your susses are increasingly egregious to the point where you should be killed for them, tbqh

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:39 pmIdk

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:40 pm Seems wrong, people in this thread are happily pushing way worse targets to me

Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:51 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:40 pm Seems wrong, people in this thread are happily pushing way worse targets to me
who are the "worse targets" exactly?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:56 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:51 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:40 pm Seems wrong, people in this thread are happily pushing way worse targets to me
who are the "worse targets" exactly?
Bereft / Ted

Which I’m actually not really serious about but I’m not entirely sure like who you think I’m wolfily pushing since I actually can’t recall really pushing anyone (which is of course wolfy in itself)

I guess the Ran stuff does count

Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:09 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:56 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:51 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:40 pm Seems wrong, people in this thread are happily pushing way worse targets to me
who are the "worse targets" exactly?
Bereft / Ted

Which I’m actually not really serious about but I’m not entirely sure like who you think I’m wolfily pushing since I actually can’t recall really pushing anyone (which is of course wolfy in itself)

I guess the Ran stuff does count
the ran stuff, you voting wind/abi day 1, posts like this

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:35 pm Five flips are dizzy rondo bereft ran and Abigail narrowly over Ted before Leetic asks
throwing darts at me on/off

just looks to me like you're mostly attacking townspeople for barely coherent reasons

Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:10 pm if dizzy's not playing he's not playing

i had hoped my vote on him would lead to some pressure because he needed it but if he's afk it does exactly nothing and leads to thread discussion centering around him which is bad. i will instead vote tsp, who is being a scummy scumfuck

[VOTE: tsp] aubergine

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:11 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:09 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:56 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:51 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:40 pm Seems wrong, people in this thread are happily pushing way worse targets to me
who are the "worse targets" exactly?
Bereft / Ted

Which I’m actually not really serious about but I’m not entirely sure like who you think I’m wolfily pushing since I actually can’t recall really pushing anyone (which is of course wolfy in itself)

I guess the Ran stuff does count
the ran stuff, you voting wind/abi day 1, posts like this

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:35 pm Five flips are dizzy rondo bereft ran and Abigail narrowly over Ted before Leetic asks
throwing darts at me on/off

just looks to me like you're mostly attacking townspeople for barely coherent reasons
It feels like expect me to have a coherent set of thoughts about the game and the people in it and to not express any concerns or disagreements with people who I think are more than likely town. However, I do not have a coherent set of thoughts about the game and there is not a player in this game who I think isn’t more than likely town. You want the impossible

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:32 pm I’m not going to push Ran (that will go nowhere) I’m just here to complain. Like yeah I probably could push dizzy but I’m vaguely resigned on that one. I’m just not going to push Gira and I’m not even interested really. I don’t think Gira’s a good chop today.

notably also he started off the day by calling me scum, on the momentum that was created by bereft/tedxtr, only to back off when i started going after him. i'm biased, but, like...he clearly wanted nothing to do with me tried to de-escalate while i continued to be aggressive toward him. that's not a scum/scum dynamic, basically ever

@Bereft i miss you already. i'm sorry for ever having said anything mean about you.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:50 am
Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:49 am
Gira wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:47 am
Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:46 am oh idk this feels as likely as a janitor kill in my head: Have we considered it was a block/bodyguard/redirect?
FROM WHO?
me aparently?? @leetic , to answer your question directly, I have no clue why I could be tracked to Bereft. Im pure vanilla town
That's good, because the person who I actually tracked visiting Bereft was @Gira. [VOTE: Gira] aubergine

i've been playing mafia since 2010, you're not going to get me with a bush league reaction test and that would be true if i was scum as well

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:49 am [VOTE: Made] aubergine

m8 you're tunneled as fuck

Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:46 am oh idk this feels as likely as a janitor kill in my head: Have we considered it was a block/bodyguard/redirect?

FROM WHO?

Spoiler: show

this is a sequence from eod, showing posts trying to deflect from tsp and save him and get dizzy killed instead. the tsp vote comes at 9:00, after the wagon on tsp has become large enough that he is going to die anyway

fact check: ran did not try to kill tsp or bury him, and in fact very explicitly tried to get someone else killed over him. ran trying to claim credit like she pushed him is scummy as fuck.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:56 pm I'm not sure I can respond to that Dizzy post without breaking rules. Keeping my vote there and want that slot dead on policy now. Feel free and scumread me for it tomorrow if they flip town.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:39 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:36 pm I think the Dizzy wagon looks worse than the pyxxy wagon in terms of who's on it
Not like terribly worse but I get a slimy feeling from it, mainly because it seems primarily like a policy yeet so reasonably anyone could be on it and take no blame if Dizzy is town
It is. The slime comes from the AtE. I'll take the blame. Any chance I can get you on it?

THIS IS YOU TRYING TO SAVE TSP AND GET WIND TO VOTE DIZZY

Now, the pivotal moment:

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:11 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:09 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:06 pm Anyway
I have this fear that none of the proposed wagons for today are wolves, but in all honesty I cannot pick out a wolf in my current read progress so that's entirely on me for being uncertain.
If you could make a wagon suddenly be the one we are on, which one?
TSP, there are no votes on him but there's been plenty of talk about how he's scummy

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:25 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:11 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:09 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:06 pm Anyway
I have this fear that none of the proposed wagons for today are wolves, but in all honesty I cannot pick out a wolf in my current read progress so that's entirely on me for being uncertain.
If you could make a wagon suddenly be the one we are on, which one?
TSP, there are no votes on him but there's been plenty of talk about how he's scummy
Ok I'm sorry for this but it's been close to 15 minutes and a bunch of you are active
Why does nobody have comment on this post? Is there a reason you guys are engaging with my posts before and after this but not specifically this one?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:27 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:25 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:11 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:09 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:06 pm Anyway
I have this fear that none of the proposed wagons for today are wolves, but in all honesty I cannot pick out a wolf in my current read progress so that's entirely on me for being uncertain.
If you could make a wagon suddenly be the one we are on, which one?
TSP, there are no votes on him but there's been plenty of talk about how he's scummy
Ok I'm sorry for this but it's been close to 15 minutes and a bunch of you are active
Why does nobody have comment on this post? Is there a reason you guys are engaging with my posts before and after this but not specifically this one?
oh shit, sorry I didnt see it. I also dont have any read on TSP other than he is on my Wagon I have no arguments against it

Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:29 pm I had been voting TSP as the alternative to Rondo/Dizzy for a while now, but Gira voted pyxxy, so I colonized that one.

I just have TSP as POE just generally.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:31 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:27 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:25 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:11 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:09 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:06 pm Anyway
I have this fear that none of the proposed wagons for today are wolves, but in all honesty I cannot pick out a wolf in my current read progress so that's entirely on me for being uncertain.
If you could make a wagon suddenly be the one we are on, which one?
TSP, there are no votes on him but there's been plenty of talk about how he's scummy
Ok I'm sorry for this but it's been close to 15 minutes and a bunch of you are active
Why does nobody have comment on this post? Is there a reason you guys are engaging with my posts before and after this but not specifically this one?
oh shit, sorry I didnt see it. I also dont have any read on TSP other than he is on my Wagon I have no arguments against it
Tbf I said not super long ago that I wanted to iso him before eod
I don't think that's actually gonna happen but the rundown is: I thought his pushes were un-agenda'd because they weren't on players who seemed likely to gain traction as a wagon. Ran disagreed and said that making posts that were unhelpful to town does count as wolf agenda. (that's just a definition dispute and not super relevant, but I guess it boils down to whether we think any of TSP's pushes have been productive or helpful and uh... I don't think they have been)

What I'm curious about is that I am pretty sure multiple people opened the day saying TSP was in their PoE but nobody has a vote on them.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:32 pm I'm down to kill tsp if illario doesn't show up.

TSP becomes a subject of discussion BECAUSE WINDWARD STARTS PUSHING HIM. The most Ran says is "yeah I could vote him too". Ran trying to act like she was the one burying TSP at EOD is incredibly wolfy

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:30 am I spent most of d2 killing TSP. Check the tapes.

okay let's roll the replay:

Spoiler: show

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:20 pm I have. Feelings about Robyn but. They are probably not helpful. Regardless we move on. Robyn if you can see this thread I hope you are well.

So.

Rondo, Bereft, TSP, Dizzy all look abysmal to me here. I would like anyone who strongly townreads any of these players to tell me why.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:46 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:22 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:20 pm I have. Feelings about Robyn but. They are probably not helpful. Regardless we move on. Robyn if you can see this thread I hope you are well.

So.

Rondo, Bereft, TSP, Dizzy all look abysmal to me here. I would like anyone who strongly townreads any of these players to tell me why.
I wrote updated thoughts about Rondo a few posts above, if you want my input
Noted. I disagree with robyn partnership being the main thrust of suspicion though, the main suspicion in my eyes is general wolfyness and lack of solving - that he hadn't and still hasn't Done anything in the game to help town beyond fluff and bluster and easy votes. I gave that a pass yesterday but one of my criteria for him was "he's charging at mac so let mac decide" and mac decided wolfy.

Regardless of his rep, Mac doesn't die if ALL his major suspicions are wrong and the four I listed were his suspects.

(Well three and Bereft, but he also scumread Bereft on first look and flipped around when he was scumreading Robyn, who godscumread Bereft, and we now know Robyn was town so.)

TSP also pinged mac's general scumdar, and before the whole mac robyn thing, we were going on bereft, and TSP came in trying to break that up with a gamestate read and a push on Abi which is... in my eyes weak and not good. There is a big part of me wanting to go Bereft -> TSP here.

And then there is Dizzy who is still just not playing the game but never got hard pressure for it except for me and mac, and now mac is dead.

I do not want to go tedxtr today.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:53 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:41 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:20 pm I have. Feelings about Robyn but. They are probably not helpful. Regardless we move on. Robyn if you can see this thread I hope you are well.

So.

Rondo, Bereft, TSP, Dizzy all look abysmal to me here. I would like anyone who strongly townreads any of these players to tell me why.
I think TSP is town and moreover I think TSP is out of place with the other three names
Out of place how?

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:49 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:27 am And the flop on Robyn geez

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:27 am Could it be that Mac was killed because he was wrong, not because he was right?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:36 am well now I’m sitting on Gira / ran / X yeah

Abby is just in the archetype of people I like to suspect [is the reality of it]
[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Just look at this. There is no universe town TSP comes in to this day and believes and says these things.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:08 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:46 am
I feel like wolf!TSP would have better options to push than Abbi and me because neither of us were wagons or even scumread by anyone else at the point when TSP decided he thought we were scum. Idk though, am I giving too much leeway to him for that? I just think they were kind of outlandish pushes since they would do pretty much nothing to further a wolf's agenda.

On the topic of Bereft, I will take a look at him again. But if you think Ted is towny, you think the wagons were T/T yesterday, i guess. And then you had Bereft and Rondo who were both pushing Ted rather than Robyn... You think if they're both wolfing, it was just for show? Because if Ted is town, there shouldn't have been a preference for who wolves would rather push over, unless they thought that Robyn would make a strong comeback on D2 (which I guess would make sense).
Well, the level 0 read is that Bereft and TSP are wolves, Bereft was getting buried by Robyn and everyone generally, and then TSP came in to break up the momentum and say "the obvious wolf yeet is bad, it can't be that easy day 1, why don't we vote [one of the towniest players and a social player] instead, see they must be wolves because they DON'T have votes, let's play opposites land where wolfy people are towny and towny people with no pressure must be wolfy!"

I don't think Ted is towny exactly but I think he is less scummy than my main suspects and doesn't fit in many teams with them.

Saying "ted/robyn were the wagons yesterday" is i think a very inaccurate description of the day. Bereft, Dizzy and Gira were all serious wagons at points as well, arguably Rondo too. If you want to look at only the late day then it's more like "Robyn vs [resolving ted vs rondo]" and I could not hazard a guess where wolves would fall on that. I don't think Bereft/Rondo is out of the question. I think it's more important to look at the... how to explain it. The flow of the thread rather than the votals on paper when looking at wagonomics like that. Like Bereft only ever had, like, 3 actual votes on him but mid day it felt like that was a solid wagon that was very likely to go over and at eod people would pile on unless something big happened. That is what I mean by spiritual votes. Although mac disagreed with me on that. But still that's how I think.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:36 am Maybe not his scumreads, but he did make a serious push to protect and get people off of Bereft (and/or dizzy), and it was working, even before any of the robyn stuff happened. Here's the post again for reference:

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:05 pm Here’s the situation: not all is right. We’re about to limp into the stupidest looking bereft chop I’ve ever seen. It’s probably rand and there are somewhat good reasons not to do that. So then, who’s in this game who should know better? I promise I didn’t just immediately jump to the two voters on Bereft for the record, I think that looks slightly towny. Leetic seems to have lost a bit of the edge, can’t tell why. WWA is posting a lot but has no thread control nor have they attempted to wrest it. I won’t vote for Mac or dizzy day 1. Ted seems alright. Mac’s defending Gira. I won’t vote Rondo D1 for opposite reasons. Ran and Robyn are self resolving.
The two people he's pushing are the voters on Bereft, which he even lampshades directly and calls them towny(?!). The other wagon atp is dizzy with me and mac voting there iirc, and he blows that off as well.

The more I look here the more I am seeing tsp/bereft/dizzy. Which is very premature but. There's hella agenda.

okay so there's pushign on tsp but you're also attempting to pair him with a dead villager and made, who is probably a villager. preflip associating scum with townies is scum tactics 101. regardless, still, you were "pushing" him even if you didn't actually articulate a coherent case at all

then there's this:

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:32 am
leetic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:12 am Although this thread still seems suspiciously quiet. @WindwardAway any reason why you're significantly less vocal this phase than you were in the last?
Not to answer for wind in specific, but it is the weekend and our long day 1 was pretty exhausting. Would be nice if folks were around more though but... I've said my piece and don't have much new, the ball is in Dizzy's and Bereft's and Rondo's respective courts. I've cooled on TSP some but still can't really understand his mindset... but now that he's channeling illario it's probably impractical to kill him today regardless.

[VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:29 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:27 am I mean, lots of people said they think Rondo is scum and then voted Dizzy.
I said I changed my mind overnight, Rondo's ISO was not scummy yesterday, and then I voted Dizzy to put pressure there.
Dunno what everyone else's explanation is. Has Dizzy shown up yet?
He has not. I've moved there because TSP now has an illario in his head.

which is a very scummy attempt to get out of voting TSP using illario as an excuse

This is what you were posting later in the day:

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:44 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:32 am @Ranmilia @WindwardAway @pyxxy @tedxtr Why do you think you have the best possible vote right now?
It's you or Bereft for me as of right now. You've done nothing to help town, some stuff to hurt it early on, and then hid behind inactivity. Bereft has at least been posting and Mac had them town and you wolf. There's been so much resistance and so many people saying "oh dizzy is just rand I don't want to vote there it's not spicy, it's not the BEST POSSIBLE VOTE" sort of thing that I feel like that has to be a mafia talking point. Mac had you scummy and died.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:48 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:10 pm @Dyslexicon I have read your posts... I don't have much to say in response that isn't obvious or already said. If you are town, we can really use your head in the game, please keep on keepin on, read as much as you are able and give us your thoughts, and don't feel like "oh no ran is dead set on killing me" because that is not the case, unless you are a wolf in which case it is the case. But regardless very happy to finally get a game with you <3
It is at this point that a feeling that I have had already has now fully crystalised to a point where I feel the need to say it aloud.

Ran is such obvious town that anyone who has scumread them whatsoever is entirely suspicious with perhaps the sole exception of leetic.

this is you trying to push bereft/dizzy as the chops

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:16 pm This game.

Rondo is not a wolf.

Gira is not a wolf.

Leetic is not a wolf.

There is at least one wolf in Bereft/Dizzy, quite possibly two but the entire game freaking out (again!) about pushing there indicates at least one active partner elsewhere.

Pyxxy... *can* be a wolf but this wagon rising up and pushing them over dizzy is ???

this is you several hours before EOD, trying to push bereft/dizzy. no mention of tsp

you have basically no emotional maturity and lash out like a toddler at the slightest sign of friction, for all intents and purposes you're roleplaying a child on the internet

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:18 am
Gira wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:42 am
leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:25 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:21 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:02 pm So if Bereft an ITP?

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:04 pm Or do we have a janitor?
dunno how you would ever come to the first conclusion
What do you suggest he is then?
it's a janitored kill, guessing 3rd party makes no sense, ran deciding it wasn't town for ??reasons?? is baffling

i don't know why mafia would janitor him when he had a no motion report on him and wasn't credibly a PR but he also was the only player who hadn't really claimed anything. realistically i have no idea why mafia wouldn't janitor abigail if she's town unless her checks are actually correct, but i don't really believe a team within leetic/made/ted is remotely plausible
If the mafia had janitor, why not use it on one of the claimed PRs? Using it on someone who was almost confirmed vanilla seems like a waste

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:23 am Anyway, I am pretty dumbfounded by that kill when the wolves' other kills have been fairly predictable; I would have expected me to go down, or at least Ranmilia if they want to get rid of Jack. The fact that Abby wasn't a target suggests that they didn't believe her claim, or maybe the wolf blocker was still in play.

i have no fucking clue

@Porscha @leetic @Made

i need you to actually pay attention here, because this game is precariously close to a loss state for town. abigail is easily pocketed by anyone saying something halfway nice to her, and that is problematic. I will try to spell out my case/reasoning as much as possible.

I think to anyone with a halfway rational thought process, it's incredibly clear that i am unaligned with tsp and there should be basically no doubts about my alignment but obviously that's become inconvenient for scum. being in that position is pretty illuminating though.

[VOTE: ran] aubergine

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:08 am
Gira wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:42 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:39 am I'm also busy, starting to settle down some now. Procrastinating on reading.

I don't want to sleepwalk into made here. Simultaneously I wish I had made's flip. Jack and I expected to die and the fact that we have not says... I have no idea what it says because that unflip is wild.

Leaving it entirely aside, at a macro level, Made yesterday didn't make me feel like a wolf talking BS, gira and ted did. So that's where my head is at.
where did it feel like i was "talking bs"?
The "revisionist history" bit trying to discredit me, trying to wagon Abi on TSP spew that in my eyes looks good for her, voting Made then going back to pyxxy and saying "we're going to miss twice in a row", then today you're saying "Bereft was generally townread and this suggests the game is upside down"

All of this is like. What.

I killed TSP.
Bereft was the scummiest player in the game by far.
TSP also tried to turn the game upside down and make Abi a vote.
If you're town we have... very different perspectives.

the revisionist history bit is a factual statement toward you trying to portray yourself as having played a greater role in killing scum than you actually did. this is very frequently done by scum although townies can have faulty memories too - people exaggerate the role they played in their own head. i made nothing of it and didn't push you for it.

you did fuckall to kill tsp and claiming otherwise is an outright fabrication

as for wagoning abigail, that is not a tactic i remotely adopt as scum - trying to kill a player who is generally being townread is unlikely to ever succeed and will only make you enemies (as it has here). if no scum were in danger yesterday, why do i need to push someone who is being townread?

no one was voting bereft, no one was pushing bereft, the most you did was trying to sell paranoia on bereft but no one was biting. if you want to argue bereft was a POE slot, show me where people were actually doubting bereft's alignment.

Regardless of whether or not my summary of bereft being townread is accurate, I think it is inarguable that an "unexpected" kill generally points to the gamestate being one where scum are not the ones receiving pressure.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:04 am
Gira wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:59 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:56 am
Gira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:18 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:05 pm lol

"???"

haha

ok guys I still think abi is town so no go there unless mech red thx
she needs to rescind her obviously fake claim
If it's obviously fake why do I need to rescind it
because if you play like it's real it's problematic, because ran is howling right now
Funny. I won't protect ran anymore but I don't agree

I don't see how my claim real or not prevents you from going for ran if you don't believe me.

because if i was correct and you were faking, then you become an obstacle to people's ability to actually solve

i could claim it

it would be a lie but i could claim it

realistically ran is unaligned with dizzy's slot for all time. and the ran/abigail dynamic is rarely ever scum/scum.

game doesn't make sense balance-wise if one of the claimed PRs is fake + i think the way both claimed comes across real.

just leaves ran/rondo as the only realistic team

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:00 am
Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:24 am Happy Thanksgiving y’all

Im currently in a food coma so imma pass out and jump back in in the morning

surprised noone is voting for me yet. I didn’t think much about what the game means with a chopped a town pyxxy. Ill probably start reinterpreting the d2 chop votes.

until then 🫡
EoD pretty heavily implies no wolfs were threatened in my honest opinion

yeah it's almost like someone was hard defending the entire wolf team

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:56 am
Gira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:18 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:05 pm lol

"???"

haha

ok guys I still think abi is town so no go there unless mech red thx
she needs to rescind her obviously fake claim
If it's obviously fake why do I need to rescind it

because if you play like it's real it's problematic, because ran is howling right now

and why is this only something you're calling out now?

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:39 am I'm also busy, starting to settle down some now. Procrastinating on reading.

I don't want to sleepwalk into made here. Simultaneously I wish I had made's flip. Jack and I expected to die and the fact that we have not says... I have no idea what it says because that unflip is wild.

Leaving it entirely aside, at a macro level, Made yesterday didn't make me feel like a wolf talking BS, gira and ted did. So that's where my head is at.

where did it feel like i was "talking bs"?

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:25 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:21 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:02 pm So if Bereft an ITP?

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:04 pm Or do we have a janitor?
dunno how you would ever come to the first conclusion
What do you suggest he is then?

it's a janitored kill, guessing 3rd party makes no sense, ran deciding it wasn't town for ??reasons?? is baffling

i don't know why mafia would janitor him when he had a no motion report on him and wasn't credibly a PR but he also was the only player who hadn't really claimed anything. realistically i have no idea why mafia wouldn't janitor abigail if she's town unless her checks are actually correct, but i don't really believe a team within leetic/made/ted is remotely plausible

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:02 pm So if Bereft an ITP?

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:04 pm Or do we have a janitor?

dunno how you would ever come to the first conclusion

anyway don't really have time for the night, while bereft was generally townread him getting NKed suggests the game was pretty upside down

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:05 pm lol

"???"

haha

ok guys I still think abi is town so no go there unless mech red thx

she needs to rescind her obviously fake claim

[VOTE: pyxxy] aubergine

i would flip if made wasn't skeeving me out

regardlss i'm stayng where i am

i'm half expecting pyxxy to snipe at the last minute but w/e

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:58 pm Both probably have to be flipped at some point, so

nothign 'has' to be done it's a matter of if people have the will to resist the narrative

i mean i'm voting with you

Made wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:49 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:48 pm Is this really gonna end in a tie? Remember pyxxy, there is nothing honorable about not self-presing as town
Honestly, Pyxxy, don't self press. I think a tie might be better for thread state should both of us be town.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:31 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:28 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:26 pm [VOTE: Bereft] aubergine

because I'm still annoyed at you
Why not self-pres at DizzyMade?
I can't answer this in a way that won't seem like AtE.

elite post tbh

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:25 pm Thread dead already?

quick someone call me frozen

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:10 pm Is pyxxy good at AtEing as a wolf? Who has meta

i can barely remember the game where he played as wolf because it was a hell game for unrelated reasons but yeah

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:04 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:03 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:54 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:52 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:51 pm Don’t even think of clearing her “peeks” if there’s some world where she dies tonight

and flips vanilla
Don't worry i'll die tonight and flip cop and than you can have 2 ICs
if we had a watcher, rber, tracker and cop in one thread of a 13er

it’d prolly be worse design than the wolf catchup mechanic
have you accounted for the strongman ninja godfather though?
If that were true, I'd expect TSP to have been one of them. Plus, we've only seen PRs and VTs, no passive modifiers.

(it's a joke)

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:54 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:52 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:51 pm Don’t even think of clearing her “peeks” if there’s some world where she dies tonight

and flips vanilla
Don't worry i'll die tonight and flip cop and than you can have 2 ICs
if we had a watcher, rber, tracker and cop in one thread of a 13er

it’d prolly be worse design than the wolf catchup mechanic

have you accounted for the strongman ninja godfather though?

[VOTE: made] aubergine

w/e

gonna be funny when shes fpsing greenchecks on the wolf team

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:34 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:33 pm shrug

[VOTE: pyxxy] aubergine

i'm going to follow the most likely townies here
well uhh, at least from the VCs i’ve quoted, rondo / pyxxy don’t seem aligned

glgl

i agree they probably aren't

shrug

[VOTE: pyxxy] aubergine

i'm going to follow the most likely townies here

Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:23 pm i kind of think we're misclearing rondo

to expand on this, he has occupied mostly the safe space of not being looked at after getting a lot of heat yesterday and has mostly fallen off. didn't really have any progression on tsp and kept trying to fling around alternatives. i also just read his stuff and it looks fake. like it doesn't feel like he's had any real thoughts at all today where most other people are trying to piece something together.

if i actually do go down i'd chop him before made/pyxxy although i realize that is playing with fire

you can just admit you're mad at me for suspecting you in a game of mafia

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:24 pm @pyxxy @Made @Gira and whoever else: if it looks like you're going down but you have a claim that might save you, please make it soon

i'm VT, reasonably sure all the PRs that are in the setup have claimed

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:23 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:21 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:20 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:20 pm abi is probably town just frustrating
Correct

Not sure what I'm doing wrong but I am indeed town.
well you're OMGUSing me when i haven't been voting you for several hours
It's not omgus I think that's an over used phrase people use anytime someone they voted votes them

if you deny it, it definitely is

i kind of think we're misclearing rondo

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:20 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:20 pm abi is probably town just frustrating
Correct

Not sure what I'm doing wrong but I am indeed town.

well you're OMGUSing me when i haven't been voting you for several hours

abi is probably town just frustrating

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:17 pm i just can’t picture a world where pyxxy / dizzy are both v/v

then wtf are the wolves doing, both bussing tsp?

i dunno man wouldn't be the first game mafia has bussed to a win

tbh i wouldn't mind getting chopped if it meant i got to go to the other thread and solve there but it would be extremely unhelpful to the rest of yall

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:11 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:32 pm i'm going to just assume at least some of the townreads on tsp are tmi on his alignment and take him as town because usually when someone is getting defended and i don't really see it that's what's going on. i just don't know who is doing it as of right now
this post is why I've believed Gira is town. seems incongruent with the rest of earlygame where gira/tsp pretty consistently attacked one another.

i mean that would be a sick post to make if i was scum, yeah?

but i'm not

at most 1 scum among the clown car on me, the others are way more likely to be image conscious than to actually vote me here

probably not helpful analysis but w/e

didn't actually expect to get voted here

made doesn't feel like he's having genuine thoughts and i'd probably kill him before anyone else

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