The Syndicate

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:30 am I forgot about this game. EoD tonight?

I see this is going well

:/

i'll be honest i was slightly paranoid of how leetic was playing the day and their pushes felt sus but reaading posts i missed from overnight they have a hint of towny self-righteousness to them and i feel okay about them still

i still...don't know what to do about dizzy, it feels like he simply does not have time to play regardless of alignment, this is disappointing regardless of what his rolecard is and i don't know what the best play is. atp he probably gets force substituted but that is also kicking the can down the road where it may not be easier to resolve the slot, still as a vote it feels underwhelming even if there's a chance it's a hit

the first time i reloaded the page to get new posts the board glitched and tsp's post showed as a bunch of jumbled bright green broken code and i freaked out that it was somehow a game mechanic

illario being the D2 elim is p surprising

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:12 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:10 pm if dizzy's not playing he's not playing

i had hoped my vote on him would lead to some pressure because he needed it but if he's afk it does exactly nothing and leads to thread discussion centering around him which is bad. i will instead vote tsp, who is being a scummy scumfuck

[VOTE: tsp] aubergine

lol

if dizzy's not playing he's not playing

i had hoped my vote on him would lead to some pressure because he needed it but if he's afk it does exactly nothing and leads to thread discussion centering around him which is bad. i will instead vote tsp, who is being a scummy scumfuck

[VOTE: tsp] aubergine

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:56 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:51 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:40 pm Seems wrong, people in this thread are happily pushing way worse targets to me
who are the "worse targets" exactly?
Bereft / Ted

Which I’m actually not really serious about but I’m not entirely sure like who you think I’m wolfily pushing since I actually can’t recall really pushing anyone (which is of course wolfy in itself)

I guess the Ran stuff does count

the ran stuff, you voting wind/abi day 1, posts like this

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:35 pm Five flips are dizzy rondo bereft ran and Abigail narrowly over Ted before Leetic asks

throwing darts at me on/off

just looks to me like you're mostly attacking townspeople for barely coherent reasons

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:40 pm Seems wrong, people in this thread are happily pushing way worse targets to me

who are the "worse targets" exactly?

it's not a slip he's suggesting he disagrees with the pushes other people are making

could be informed but i don't rea anything into it

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:31 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:10 pm imho it's rrrrarely that simple and only an exceptionally ballsy/crazy scum player makes a push that direct to save a teammate

and if anything my knowledge of TSP is that he's very, very heavy handed with the distancing as mafia

a lot of what he posts comes across as towny in demeanor but i think his votes and pushes are objectively wolfsiding and the more he does it the more likely it becomes that he's just utterly full of it and trying to push a scum agenda
While I’m on it 1) I think TSP-spew narratives have been fairly well discredited [hopefully] but in my defense 2) second and third paragraphs seem contradictory to me

not really it's a matter of timing and positioning

you can throw shade on your partners all day but still make sure your main votes are pushing scum agenda

and atp your susses are increasingly egregious to the point where you should be killed for them, tbqh

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:28 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:26 pm It’s not only unlikely, but impossible.

how do we explain robyn getting a vote too then? and rondo, assuming he isn’t lying?
We don't know who their partners, if anyone, are, plus we don't know anything about the wagons on the other thread besides that Porscha was presumably on top

But by this point, I feel the mechanical talk is distracting us. We'll have more answers soon.

well, if you're the one saying it then i don't have to be the one telling you you're spending too much time on it

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:11 pm I actually think Ted > Pyx > Dizzy/TSP just wins tbh

Some tinfoil on Gira Bereft Leetic though

i would kill dizzy and tsp well before i killed the former two

maybe i'm a sucker but i still like pyxxy's posting, stuff like him running off with his theorizing about leetic being mafia yesterday feels like real thoughts where he's forming independent conclusions and really thinking about the game

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:08 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:46 am
I feel like wolf!TSP would have better options to push than Abbi and me because neither of us were wagons or even scumread by anyone else at the point when TSP decided he thought we were scum. Idk though, am I giving too much leeway to him for that? I just think they were kind of outlandish pushes since they would do pretty much nothing to further a wolf's agenda.

On the topic of Bereft, I will take a look at him again. But if you think Ted is towny, you think the wagons were T/T yesterday, i guess. And then you had Bereft and Rondo who were both pushing Ted rather than Robyn... You think if they're both wolfing, it was just for show? Because if Ted is town, there shouldn't have been a preference for who wolves would rather push over, unless they thought that Robyn would make a strong comeback on D2 (which I guess would make sense).
Well, the level 0 read is that Bereft and TSP are wolves, Bereft was getting buried by Robyn and everyone generally, and then TSP came in to break up the momentum and say "the obvious wolf yeet is bad, it can't be that easy day 1, why don't we vote [one of the towniest players and a social player] instead, see they must be wolves because they DON'T have votes, let's play opposites land where wolfy people are towny and towny people with no pressure must be wolfy!"

I don't think Ted is towny exactly but I think he is less scummy than my main suspects and doesn't fit in many teams with them.

Saying "ted/robyn were the wagons yesterday" is i think a very inaccurate description of the day. Bereft, Dizzy and Gira were all serious wagons at points as well, arguably Rondo too. If you want to look at only the late day then it's more like "Robyn vs [resolving ted vs rondo]" and I could not hazard a guess where wolves would fall on that. I don't think Bereft/Rondo is out of the question. I think it's more important to look at the... how to explain it. The flow of the thread rather than the votals on paper when looking at wagonomics like that. Like Bereft only ever had, like, 3 actual votes on him but mid day it felt like that was a solid wagon that was very likely to go over and at eod people would pile on unless something big happened. That is what I mean by spiritual votes. Although mac disagreed with me on that. But still that's how I think.

imho it's rrrrarely that simple and only an exceptionally ballsy/crazy scum player makes a push that direct to save a teammate

and if anything my knowledge of TSP is that he's very, very heavy handed with the distancing as mafia

a lot of what he posts comes across as towny in demeanor but i think his votes and pushes are objectively wolfsiding and the more he does it the more likely it becomes that he's just utterly full of it and trying to push a scum agenda

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:57 pm Also somewhat moot because I think I might be past it

i still think it's relevant and worth commenting on why people are reading her the way they are

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:07 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:27 am Could it be that Mac was killed because he was wrong, not because he was right?
If that were the case, I would expect he'd be killed for having an incorrect townread and not necessarily an incorrect scumread, like if he were hard shielding a wolf.

(hes gonna hate that I'm saying this since it risks tearing up the towncore, but I mean from a wolf perspective it's more beneficial to kill a loud townie with thread pull who accidentally townreads a wolf imo)

But I legit just think he was killed for being super towny, and I'm not reading into whether his reads were accurate or not, beyond what I already formed opinions on while he was around.

i like highly disagree with this from a theory POV, but as this is all speculative there's no use to it

but to use a real concrete example from this game, mac was hard townreading me and now that he's dead you have shitters like bereft and tsp and insomnia wanting to kill me for no actual discernable reason. mac has never failed to recognize me as town when i am town, he would be shutting that down immediately, he is probably cringing at the fact that there is an attempted push on me at all

but no one actually cares who dead players were townreading. as far as the wolves are concerned i am now a viable mis-elim and there is almost certainly one who is trying for that

insomnia demonstrably can't actually read me and so him suspecting me feels the most believable of the 3

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:22 am
leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:24 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:21 am
leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:22 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:12 am Idk don’t make much of it
Do you still have Dyslexicon and Abby as wolfreads or have your views changed in light of the flip?
I think Dizzy looks maybe marginally better from the vote dip, Abby looks bad still
What about Dizzy's parked vote looks good? And can you elaborate on your read of Abby?
The atmosphere around the Robyn push shifted a lot, for Dizzy as a wolf to drop the vote in that manner would require in my mind maybe an unreasonable amount of foresight. This is somewhat of a bad explanation but I just think like it’s not an indicator of agenda. Then again, Dizzy is a good wolf and maybe knows Mac well enough to figure it out.

I don’t think Abby has contributed to the goals of the town in this game and moreover has received little attention and just occasionally some spare defenders saying “read her iso” (which ok I haven’t done). Granted we haven’t launched any wolves so no one has exactly contributed much. I also think it’s bizarre that people keep treating it like it’s a bad push. Like ??? No one has offered a concrete reason that Abby is towny, besides possibly if someone wants to make a spew read.

i don't think abigail seemingly "not contributing" is a valid tell for her, she's been a massive fluffposter in every game i've seen her in, her doing that is a nulltell. when she's actually said stuff about the game it feels fine.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:57 am i don’t like ran’s analysis of mac death and also gira seems much less villagery than he normally is

fmpov the game is harder than it’s being portrayed. if the wolfteam was bad, i’d feel some type of way about it by now

mac’s entire PoE was voting me afaict and have NAI poasts, either spammers or just not really wolfy people. im not inclined to wolfread them just by voting me cuz it seems like villas on this site have a hard on for not giving me space and wolf reading me

i know i said rondo was outed but something about his t0an and positioning is making me doubt it

i guess im not ghanna push gira yet cuz i can see dizzy being a possible wolf, but it seems like yet another push that doesn’t have much reason to be a wolf other than not posting a lot. i did think dizzy’s vote on robyn was weak and the switcharoo from ran to robyn to be weird as it’s two polar opposite votes without much seeming development in between, but still, meh

go ahead and push me for all i care

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:02 am
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:58 am [VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine
Is it because of their weird robyn vote or is there another reason?

yeah i think the justification for that vote sticks in my mind

i'm going to be honest i'm not really trying to decrypt bereft at all, just kind of treating him as a black box and solving around him. too lazy to actually look at it. i still feel like the way he's doing stuff is >rand town, if that makes any sense whatsoever

[VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:10 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:09 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:08 pm RDB still looks suspicious, so [VOTE: RDB] aubergine as a start
why does he look suspicious?
Mac and I (and others) went over it last EoD, and so far nothing has changed to make them look better. If anything, the Mac kill makes them look worse

mac gets killed night 1 because he's mac, i want to hear in your words why you think he's mafia

i agree that tedxtr/rondo does seem like a dipole based on EoD posting

(also, going to be afk for the next few hours so i won't be around to respond)

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:08 pm RDB still looks suspicious, so [VOTE: RDB] aubergine as a start

why does he look suspicious?

i love it when people gamethrow when i'm town it's a lot of fun it really makes me enjoy mafia with how it always happens

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 5:01 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:58 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:55 pm I feel like wolf Robyn is playing brinkmanship with me. Just silently hoping I reevaluate as I'm prone to.
Wolf!Robyn would probably be hoping that all the most vocal townies reevaluate, you included
Yeah but they'd actually play the game and try to persuade others. With me their best bet is to do nothing.

this is kind of cruel to say regardless of alignment but i'd expect last minute AtE and maybe a PR claim in the hopes people panic (which i would not believe - if you're a PR getting run up day 1 you don't go off to sulk in a corner)

I have to leave now and in all likelihood will not be present for EoD. my last reads list is still accurate to how I feel about the game. This thread mostly seems to actually have its business in order well before EoD which is pretty rare, please don't get stupid and start some random flashwagon with 30 minutes left in the day. I know robyn and tedxtr aren't that far apart in my readslist but I prefer a robyn chop by probably two orders of magnitude - I don't think any case that's been presented against insomnia has been especially compelling. GL all.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 1:56 pm ghanna keep my vote on rondo, tho it's not a lock one

but the reason i wanted him to be strict on wolfy in general vs wolfy this game is cuz i didn't feel like he was trying to be wolfy, actually i had the opposite view

i dunno why the thread seems stuck on robyn, but given the callout for them being a wolf and the frozen wagon on them, maybe they're spewed wolf somehow (push on this, wolves - sounds wolfy!)

dunno what to make of bereft. or dizzy. gth running up a wall on ran then swapping for no reason given you've read like only 2 posts for them seems weird.

the game feels incredibly boring to solve in and it feels PoEable. there's nothing like ~obvious wolf, but there are villagery villagers

i wouldn't really call the wagon frozen, it wasn't really a thing until like, last night when mac moved his vote, prior to that was mostly just me sitting there

and historically if i'm syncing with mac on a read on day 1 that has a very good success rate

maybe porscha is supposed to be like petey and she got fired from work but still exists in the outside world

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 11:32 am
Gira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 11:07 am i might have to eat crow on my defense of dizzy tbqh
You don't <3

ahh dammit you're so good at pocketing

pyxxy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 5:27 am
Spoiler: show
imagine a ted/leetic/robyn team. tough rand if true

leetic would be crushing it tbh

i'm based toward townreading insomnia because of his posting style, which i think always hits the surface level indicators i look for, and would have to actually look deeper into him to catch him but haven't really been that concerned and i keep liking when he posts

---

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 11:31 am
Gira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 11:07 am i might have to eat crow on my defense of dizzy tbqh
Why's that?

thread feels towny as fuck, have a hard time finding scumreads, and i decided in my meditation chamber that the long post that made people back off him was actually kind of scummy because it was manipulative.

i think in terms of reads now i'm at like

{mac, wind, ran, leetic}
{abigail, pyxxy, tsp}
{tedxtr, bereft, dizzy}
{rondo, robyn}

in terms of the second tier townreads - i think pyxxy has certain towntells and over the last few pages he's been hitting them. i know mac is sussing tsp but i keep feeling the way he's posting is towny - i guess if i had cause for concern it's that he's displaying what i read as a towny thought process but has been trying to vote people i think are likely town.

that leaves me with a very narrow suspect pool, and what namse there do i go with? do tedxtr or bereft seem more likely? eh. there was that one ted post about robyn but that is kind of thin evidence.

relatedly, i kind of think that is what happened with robyn - the thread is hella towny and they are having a hard time finding a push so they threw in the towel. a townie who is getting run up, in most cases, will start flailing a bit - they get paranoid, they start accusing people wildly because the world is out to get them, so they end up suspicious of a lot of people. i didn't really get that feeling from robyn, i think they should have been able to name more scumreads

i might have to eat crow on my defense of dizzy tbqh

i'm guessing the other thread shrugyeeted porscha for being afk, been there before but also lolthem
---

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:25 am Maybe the other thread didn't have a N0? That's the only explanation for Porscha being dead now besides a nightstart or daykill

my assumption all along has been that the 24 hour day 0 was put in place to desync the threads. i had guessed we were gonna end up soul linked with the people in the work thread although i guess that's not the case
---

tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:27 am if people lunched in here become treestumps to the other thread

then please. kill me.

sick poast
---

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:57 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:45 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:44 am Is it time to tell you why I was entertaining Robyn and voting Bereft? Or should I save it for later?
fuck yeh it's time
Ok so I was asking earlier when Robyn was wavering on their Bereft take, and then Bereft seemed to have listed Robyn as a scumread. I didn't want to force a dichotomy between them because it would go terribly if I was wrong, but I wanted to poke around and see what people's reasons for scum reading Robyn were (the reasons for people scumreading Bereft were very clearly that he was gimmick posting).

Robyn claimed that they could solve both Bereft and me within the first 24hours, which resulted in them expressing a townread on me and what seemed like a throwaway scumread on Bereft,which is why I was trying to gauge their confidence in that read (and unfortunately, I was unable to gauge how confident Bereft was in his read on Robyn but maybe someone else picked that up).

I did actually think, once Bereft posted about the objects and put down the first 3 votes, that he was slightly towny for doing so solving under the gimmick. I believe Robyn picked up on this and decided to commit to the bereft push because it would be pretty easy for others to follow without much convincing. The real hindrance to that would be the dissenters who thought Robyn themself was a wolf, however.

Earlier in the game, I did think Robyn's read on Ranmilia was satisfactory enough that I wasn't going to question Robyn right away. I decided it was mildly towny enough and that I could probably leave their slot and see how it goes, so I took to responding to the scumreads on Robyn to figure out what their logic was (or at least, I tried to). So then when Robyn was trying to butter me up and also ask for my readlist, I decided to be sneaky and just not give it (but also because I was too lazy to type it up) and see what behavior I could observe.

I expressed low confidence in my current reads and no real scumreads. This was true enough, and as you pointed out earlier in someone else's case (TSP?), Robyn went straight for pocketing me after I said that. I decided I would vote for Bereft to force the dichotomy between them, correct or not, but without saying that's what I was doing. I downplayed my interpretation of bereft's posts in order to do this, and made a paranoia post that allowed Robyn to amplify it (TSP picked up on this, but thought I looked bad for sowing paranoia in saying that highposters contained a wolf). What I said in response to his vote on me after I caught up was that he should look for who reacted to that post. The answer should be Robyn, because Robyn immediately echoed that sentiment and told the thread that I was "correctly" voicing concern that there was an active wolf. In my opinion, if Robyn is a wolf, then they ARE the most active wolf commenting on my post. If I were more accurate and someone who was a wolf with Robyn was more active than them, they would not want to amplify that.

Sorry this is so longwinded, and also I'm not voting Robyn right now because I don't want to encourage a hammer until closer to the voting deadline. So I just voted pyxxy so that I'm voting somewhere, lol (sorry pyxxy).

god ur such a villager

my towncore is the same as mac's, uncertain how i would order names below that but i think the game is in a fairly good place. i have different reasons for locktowning ran than him but the sentiment is the same regardless

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 3:46 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 3:41 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 3:38 am @Ranmilia are you around? You said you had something to ask me
Yes. Gun to head take on pyxxy chop chop town or wolf?
Without looking at his iso I would shrugyeet him without remorse.
I think his responses to leetic earlier looked kinda towny but maybe that's just because I don't think it looked like theatre, but I townread leetic way more than pyxxy so it's not a great standard for comparison.
But he townread me fairly early, I don't think he gave any explanation for it, and he also knows that I have caught him twice almost immediately in games where he was wolfing and that if he is a wolf, I will catch on and not let him escape.
So yeah, it's an ego-based read for sure, and probably paranoia plays into it but that is my current thought. And I think that part is more important than his discourse with leetic.

interesting

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 3:41 am obligatory "wtf there is 30 pages post"

bet you guys wish you could vote me for it

when the fuck did you show up in this game

i've begun to find the Bereft gimmick extremely amusing even if i don't have the patience to actually puzzle out what his posts mean

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:09 am
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:18 pm

yooo who's up for a MU Anni D1 re-enactment
As much as this wagon seems bad, I actually townread all three of the voters and scumread Insomnia.

i highly doubt it's scum driven it just seems kind of like a lolwagon to me. (not there on rondo but i assume there's meta there i'm not privy to)

yeah i'm unmoved

like it sucks if wrong but haven't seen reason to change

it is kind of funny that people stopped suspecting dizzy because he made one long post, because i think it's not impossible to see mafia making a post like that. still not going to vote him because i'm stubborn and will stick to my earlier impression and i like him asserting he should be lock town

the other votes are,uh, interesting but the best interpretation is they were influenced by the severed thread, because i find it super hard to believe, say, an anti-town faction gets a large number of invisible votes as a power even if they have to be spread out

and without any effective communication i don't know what to do with that

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:26 pm Why are there votes on all the standarx potential day 1 mischops except Abigail? Therefore I conclude

wow harsh on insomna tbh

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:25 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:24 pm i think tsp is town now for reasons that are not related to how other people are reading him. i also think mac is town.
Elaborate on both of these please.

tsp's recent posts show an active thought process about that game and believable paranoia/uncertainty

mac is doing mac things and the way he got confrontational is a classic pillar of his town game, nothing to dislike about his recent posting spree

i think tsp is town now for reasons that are not related to how other people are reading him. i also think mac is town.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:18 pm Ahhhh I see. I see two things.
1. I was responding to abigail not robyn. you are now the third person to have outright missed that. I have learned a valuable lesson about including quotes.
2. The first "wolfmilia" could've been a reaction test or joke which I didn't want to immediately snap back at. Then dizzy doubled down (for the moment) and left the thread, so, welp.

oh the first thing is entirely on me misremembering the thread and being too lazy to actually go check it, whoops, i should actually read stuff before running my mouth

anyway noted on the second point

yooo who's up for a MU Anni D1 re-enactment

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:42 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:28 pm
hum, i thought i'd made that clear as well - because the way you were making that vote felt disproportionate to how you had reacted earlier and it stuck me as possible you were scum responding in an overly defensive manner to an accusation. i asked you about your thought process to get you to elaborate. You provided an explanation I found satisfactory and quelled any paranoia on my part.

i think questioning someone's reasoning on a vote is entirely valid for scumhunting, yeah?
Certainly, but I made that vote literally when the voting opened, and given dizzy's sole contribution at that point was a driveby accusation of me I would think it should be self evident why. I'm not sure like... what you were expecting, overnight I was thinking about Gira scum worlds and wondering if you were serving me up a "have you stopped beating your wife yet" kind of deal trying to will into existence a stronger read than I actually had. This is pretty relevant in dizzy town worlds. But now you have dizzy and I both town which goes against that.

Obviously I am not going to get you to examine worlds where yourself is scum so I'm not actually sure where I'm ending up with this. But perhaps the process will be helpful for process reader people.

lol okay you're fun

i guess i'll go pull quotes just toshow what i was thinking, content behind spoilers

Spoiler: show

hopefuly actually seeing the posts i was looking at makes it make sense?

---

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:44 pm @Gira if you were mafia, who would u push

idk probably rondo or something, i'd just go for whoever is the safest target, maybe pyxxy because i could probably get away with it. pushing mac would be a deathwish, i can't push wind because doing so would functionally out me, leetic would probably be fun to argue with but he's the type of player where as scum you let him tear apart the town for you, and i would probably try to avoid insomnia so that would limit my options pretty strongly.

i finished a recent scumgame on the org where i played like pure trash if you actually care about meta, was basically impossible for me to find a good push

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:20 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:15 pm A. I feel like I've explained this, at least to the extent I want to, in terms lo signal to noise ratio, posting to seem present but not having many thoughts that come across as solving. posts since they started being pushed haven't moved the needle for me. I know that's probably vague, I don't feel like casing because I would not say that this is an especially confident read still, just the one I feel best about pushing at the moment.
two questions really bc i don't think that boise to content ratio is actually something to read me on

1) do you think i have difficulty in providing content as wolf?
2) do you think i normally around shovel this much shit into a thread?

i think you provide less content if you can get away with it. i'm not sure what you mean by the second question but i'm not sure what difference it makes.

do you think i should be reading you as town? if so, why?

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:21 pm Wind is not a good vote in any world. Neither is robyn unless I am a gigantic clown, but I am at a loss of how to further engage on that beyond going "please read d0 where I interrogated them to head off this exact thing where people say they can't read robyn".

Gira- I agree with that philosophy, it is mine as well. But then why did you ask about my vote on dizzy?

hum, i thought i'd made that clear as well - because the way you were making that vote felt disproportionate to how you had reacted earlier and it stuck me as possible you were scum responding in an overly defensive manner to an accusation. i asked you about your thought process to get you to elaborate. You provided an explanation I found satisfactory and quelled any paranoia on my part.

i think questioning someone's reasoning on a vote is entirely valid for scumhunting, yeah?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:44 pm Everyone else knows that I'm pretty 50/50 with my accuracy, I can townclear myself most of the time when I want to, but my reads are poop even if my reasoning is somewhat logical

if you were 50/50 with accuracy you would be one of the best players of all time /pedantry

people tend to greatly over-estimate the accuracy of reads, not just from themselves but from others
---

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:39 pm @Gira A. y u scumread robyn? Like... not to overreact but I still feel very confident in them from probing into them earlier. They are a poor little meow meow and not doing anything I can identify as scummy. But mac and you are both going at them hard and neither of you are really saying why that I can see, so... someone is big wrong here.

B. What is your philosophy on the act of voting (in mafia)?

A. I feel like I've explained this, at least to the extent I want to, in terms lo signal to noise ratio, posting to seem present but not having many thoughts that come across as solving. posts since they started being pushed haven't moved the needle for me. I know that's probably vague, I don't feel like casing because I would not say that this is an especially confident read still, just the one I feel best about pushing at the moment.

B. votes are a tool. they create pressure, and pressure is one of the best ways to discern someone's alignment. in the environment I learned the game, voting early was customary, usually in an RVS stage, where i'd often try to go after someone for reactions early because i didn't like their opener, although that early attack approach backfired on me enough times that have abandoned it. in early games i'll move my vote around a lot as i pressure payers and then change my mind, late in games i think i tend to hold on to it more. I'm not someone who particularly cares about accuracy, sometimes the reaction you get from voting someone is the best way to find them as town. It's probably true that I tend to hold on to my vote more as scum, because I get cautious about who I'm pushing and don't want to do things that are potentially bad optics.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:46 pm I should probably objectively be near lock town. Very few people will make this read, while many can.

now i'm pocketed

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:33 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:32 pm i'm going to just assume at least some of the townreads on tsp are tmi on his alignment and take him as town because usually when someone is getting defended and i don't really see it that's what's going on. i just don't know who is doing it as of right now
Of the people who townread them are there any that stand out?

no, if i actually had any in mind i would say so

i'm going to just assume at least some of the townreads on tsp are tmi on his alignment and take him as town because usually when someone is getting defended and i don't really see it that's what's going on. i just don't know who is doing it as of right now

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:15 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:04 pm to be explicit, sure, he could be mafia, he could also just be the easiest vote for you to push as mafia based on a meta case
do i need to pull up 3-5 games where i auto townread him as both alignments off a couple posts and shield him the entire game from opportunistic pushes, as well as pull up messages from schweppes stating 1) i know him the best 2) i know exactly what to look for in reading him, to make this read meaningful?

because i could

most people in this list can remember a time of me hard defending schweppes/bereft so it is the opposite of opportunistic for me

no i'm probably just gonna sit on my ass and let you kill him because i don't doubt you'll succeed

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