The Syndicate

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 10:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 9:20 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 7:44 pm @hollowkatt @Urist sean has made a cool banner for you!

@Urist @hollowkatt instead use this one: and just DON'T ask questions about why you should use this one over the other one:P

no problem!
Thank you Seanzie!

My pleasure:D

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 7:44 pm @hollowkatt @Urist sean has made a cool banner for you!

@Urist @hollowkatt instead use this one: and just DON'T ask questions about why you should use this one over the other one:P

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:14 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:39 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:32 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:22 pm I guess I was killed because I had Urist as my top scumread?

PR read i believe

^this. We were guessing there was a town version of the same PR that HK was, and when you asked if anyone had been in contact with Dunya, it kind of tipped us off.

I didn't understand the role at all, lol. Would it have been useful? Do I just find out who has extra powers from dunya or something?

Yeah, more or less. If we would have killed someone other than you the night you died and you used it on Urist, you could have outed him in thread potentially if you thought his shot was scum-motivated.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:24 pm I wrote up 8 lengthy wall posts of hollowkatt interaction analyses with the first 8 players in the alphabet during my night phase. Both mafia were at the end of the alphabet so I didn't get to them. Based on where my mind was at in the moment, I think I'd have been on to Urist but wrong about Seanzie.

Seanzie's accusation that hollowkatt slipped alongside Esooa was one of the more effective single distancing posts I've ever seen, honestly. That post could have won the game by itself. Bravo.

Thanks! I appreciate the kind words!

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:32 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:22 pm I guess I was killed because I had Urist as my top scumread?

PR read i believe

^this. We were guessing there was a town version of the same PR that HK was, and when you asked if anyone had been in contact with Dunya, it kind of tipped us off.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:42 pm Should have gotten there on urist for claiming a shot on Sloonei but literally as I was typing up the post I made it in line for chicken tenders

I'm happy that you got your chicken tenders.

Good game all!

Quickly browsing the last few pages, TSP looks solvy. I didn't read for content but it looks good glancing at it

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:57 pm also if you vote for samu I might get scared off and vote for falcon

Eh, Samu is not a good choice.

What happened to TSP's wagon?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:55 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:55 pm I'm here, and not caught up. Should I try to read as much as I can in the next few minutes, or can someone summarize what's been happening?

we're voting falcon now. I'm not too happy about it. so it goes.

Who would you rather have us voting?

I see that people are back on Falcon. What caused that?

I'm here, and not caught up. Should I try to read as much as I can in the next few minutes, or can someone summarize what's been happening?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:12 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:03 am Ehh, I don't know if we can trust Falcon or Urist, or Dunya for that matter, but idk if I want to yeet in there if they have powers that could really help town. TSP hasn't done anything though.

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

true that makes me town (I’d venture you should know this)

No, it makes you unreadable, and possibly points to scum fatigue after your marathon performance in Fallout, or maybe just deliberately trying to look nothing like you did in Fallout.

Ehh, I don't know if we can trust Falcon or Urist, or Dunya for that matter, but idk if I want to yeet in there if they have powers that could really help town. TSP hasn't done anything though.

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Urist wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:30 am Sorry dunya targeted me the night before last and I shot Sloonei last night*

Why did you shoot Sloonei?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:08 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:53 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:45 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:44 pm

BoKnows wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:38 pm If Samu flips red how am I still considered? Why would I as scum sink two teammates?

Cuz we did it in Bee?

Ehh, bee was different. Fingers shot Quin. Maybe I don't remember correctly, but I don't think BK went out of his way to make that happen. In hindsight, you (Falcon) definitely were a planned scuttle that game, but Quin not so much, methinks.

What are you thoughts on who I should target tonight?

It is hard to tell without knowing what you do, but...

If it is a vig shot: I would shoot Urist or TSP.

If it is investigative: I would target Urist or TSP or maybe Samu just because I think they are town but many others don't, and it would be good to actually have them in the towncore.

If it is disruptive: I would target Urist or TSP.

If it is protective (seems unlikely given what you've said, but whatevz): I would target me or Gavial.

Probably goes without saying, but the "Investigative" group I gave is more for tracker-type investigations. Watcher-type investigative would be just me and Gavial again, same as protective.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:53 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:45 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:44 pm

BoKnows wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:38 pm If Samu flips red how am I still considered? Why would I as scum sink two teammates?

Cuz we did it in Bee?

Ehh, bee was different. Fingers shot Quin. Maybe I don't remember correctly, but I don't think BK went out of his way to make that happen. In hindsight, you (Falcon) definitely were a planned scuttle that game, but Quin not so much, methinks.

What are you thoughts on who I should target tonight?

It is hard to tell without knowing what you do, but...

If it is a vig shot: I would shoot Urist or TSP.

If it is investigative: I would target Urist or TSP or maybe Samu just because I think they are town but many others don't, and it would be good to actually have them in the towncore.

If it is disruptive: I would target Urist or TSP.

If it is protective (seems unlikely given what you've said, but whatevz): I would target me or Gavial.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:44 pm

BoKnows wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:38 pm If Samu flips red how am I still considered? Why would I as scum sink two teammates?

Cuz we did it in Bee?

Ehh, bee was different. Fingers shot Quin. Maybe I don't remember correctly, but I don't think BK went out of his way to make that happen. In hindsight, you (Falcon) definitely were a planned scuttle that game, but Quin not so much, methinks.

Gavial wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:46 pm @falcon45ca
If you want me to believe in you, start casing Tony.

Just a fyi, people don't respond well to these sorts of requests.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:24 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:20 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:08 pm Ok, get me up to speed.

Uhh... let's see here.

Urist and BK think Samu is scum due to him moving his vote from HK to the 0 poster at EoD1, and some other things.

Gavial has claimed a redcheck on Falcon, but I think most people think Gavial is lying about it.

Falcon has claimed to make a deal with Dunya and says he can't vote you or Urist, but wants people to vote Urist.

Samu faked a shot on Urist a little while ago, and liked Urist's reaction and now wants us to vote Falcon.

I kind of think Falcon is the best bet for lunch today, but his recent claim about Dunya is giving me some pause.

Where is your head at?

You can meta check with BK on this, I have zero history of making false claims. I can refer you to my claim in Fargo recently as well, I never fake claim

@BoKnows, can you confirm this?

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

@Urist @TonyStarkPrime have either of you been visited by Dunya?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:08 pm Ok, get me up to speed.

Uhh... let's see here.

Urist and BK think Samu is scum due to him moving his vote from HK to the 0 poster at EoD1, and some other things.

Gavial has claimed a redcheck on Falcon, but I think most people think Gavial is lying about it.

Falcon has claimed to make a deal with Dunya and says he can't vote you or Urist, but wants people to vote Urist.

Samu faked a shot on Urist a little while ago, and liked Urist's reaction and now wants us to vote Falcon.

I kind of think Falcon is the best bet for lunch today, but his recent claim about Dunya is giving me some pause.

Where is your head at?

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:47 pm @Gavial i trust your red check on falcon, but now u have a new and strongly core with sean and urist, just let seanzie lead.

@Seanzie if you are not town, congratulations, but if you are, know that your the main town player with some criteria, right now i can trust urist despite of his bad reads i know that is not too much but at least it can help you.

@BoKnows If u are town i have to tell you that u havent done a towny thing since d1, please tomorrow every player will have to weight on his reads and every player in the poe have to settle his vote, i think that u are clever enough to know what is the reason for this.

I pretty think that the order for settling the votes are, falcon, tsp,Bk, seanzie, gavial and finally urist.

@TonyStarkPrime if you are town at least appear, read and colaborate with the core.

I think this looks really good for Samu here. Unless the scum team is exactly Samu/Urist, and they've been doing some amazing scum theatre in front of us all game, Samu trying to push me, Gavial and Urist into a towncore together is massively against his wincon if Samu is scum. Also, I don't really see Samu doing that shooting Gambit as scum.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine This makes a lot more sense IMO.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:53 am

Urist wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:29 am

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:13 am Furthermore there havent been and argument o explanation of why i would do that being mafia or why i would jump firstly in hk wagon and quit off after. Or if it possible of me doing that being town.

Nothing.

You voted for hk because at the time of your vote there was a lot of anti-hk sentiment and you wanted to get on the bus before it left the station.
You would jump off afterward because you thought you could save hk without being on the marmot wagon. You didn't know that hk would flip that day.

I've already explained what I would have expected if you were town. You're just pretending it doesn't exist.

No, thats not true.

I jump on hk wagon cause he did some post in the same page that i didnt like, but i wasnt scumreading him at all.

And this "without being on the marmot wagon." Isnt true also. When i was off the marmot wagon wasnt formed.

What post is that? Can you quote it?

Urist wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:29 am

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:13 am Furthermore there havent been and argument o explanation of why i would do that being mafia or why i would jump firstly in hk wagon and quit off after. Or if it possible of me doing that being town.

Nothing.

You voted for hk because at the time of your vote there was a lot of anti-hk sentiment and you wanted to get on the bus before it left the station.
You would jump off afterward because you thought you could save hk without being on the marmot wagon. You didn't know that hk would flip that day.

I've already explained what I would have expected if you were town. You're just pretending it doesn't exist.

I could be wrong since some votes weren't called, but I don't think the Marmot wagon existed when Samu moved from HK to Jessie.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:13 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:55 am

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:52 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:43 am

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 am

BoKnows wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:35 am

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:30 am

What makes me scum to you?*

Night 1 EoD still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Right now I have to scum hunt in Urist, Samu, Falcon, and TSP. Out of those 4 I think Urist is the most towny. Out of the remaining three all of your guy's play has been similar enough, but it all comes back to that bad play on N1.

How unvoting and voting an afk that were killed the same night is a bad play in a scum way.

Please, everybody reflect on this.

I have been accused that my unvote and vote for jessie was mafia because thatoa had cfd HK.

Right now we know that esooa was town and his cfd was genuine in thinking hk was town.

We also know that marmot shot hk before the end of the day therefore his lynch could no longer happen.

I at that point had stopped being in the game to be with my partner.

What would have changed if I didn't unvote hk? The answer is nothing since the cfd from esooa to marmot happened regardless of what I said or did, moreover I had tried minutes before to check how people saw a wagon a long con and get reads, but I never participated in the cfd to marmot.

Do you think if I am mafia with hk before hk has been shot by marmot does it make any sense for me to leave the game and not defend hk that way?

This is the d1 count

Marmot (3*): urist, esooa, gavial
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (5): bo*, sean*, jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

Tell me now, what makes my vote for jessie more scum than urist's vote to finish off marmot?

You didn't even end up voting and when I was still and proposed LC you even joined pretty quickly without giving much explanation that wagon you joined would also save HK, isn't that also a terrible bad move?

When esooa was still alive and thought he was mafia he could accept that my move was bad and that if esooa made flip scum, I would go after because it's easy for a scum to make a case through my eod.

But this was not the case, despite esooa having made town flip, urist and now you have continued like a fly in summer insisting and insisting like a light and slight buzz throughout the thread that samu is mafia because his move in the eod is bad.

And since samu's move is bad, then samu is mafia. This argument is circular starts where it ends and ends where it starts but there is no real reasoning behind it.

I'm going to say it very clearly, you don't have the balls to explain why a scum samu would make that vote move in the d1 eod and not just any other move nor do you have the balls to say why that move is more scumness than other players with current game information.

This is really bad reasoning. I need to go look back at EoD1 to see exactly how things went down, but now that I'm looking at this vote count, Samu moving from HK to Jessie made it so that Marmot couldn't self-pres onto HK since it would have been 3 to 4...

Im doing my best here to translate what i want to say and why the argument of me being mafia is circular.

If u want to point something i will read u.

How is the argument circular?

Bk and urist defend that im mafia cause my d1 eod is bad.

And cause my d1 eod is bad, im mafia.

I name that a circular argument.

Furthermore there havent been and argument o explanation of why i would do that being mafia or why i would jump firstly in hk wagon and quit off after. Or if it possible of me doing that being town.

Nothing.

Thats horrible, is as horrible as esooa's lynch reasons.

Cause esooa did a cfd to marmot he is mafia and esooa is mafia cause he did that cfd, nobody ask himself if esooa being town and being wrong about marmot and hk aligment would do that cfd, if the narrative of esooa post is in a world of esooa being town or a world of esooa being scum.

I asked to everybody to do that mental exercice, nobody weights on that.

Now i'm requesting everybody to do the same with my case.

And there is no a clear response.

Why there is no a clear response? Definitily cause its a circular argument and nobody is thinking about why i should that.

Urist and bk are beginning and finishing in the he was wrong moving his vote and that move feels weird argument. But somebody being weird or being wrong isnt a real argument for being mafia, to think that u have to go deeper and ask yourself if that makes sense.

As a town im defing my slot against a bad argument for being ml. More if i know that gavial had a red check in falcon and the importance of lynching a scum this day.

This is not a circular argument. You're using the correct term here, but what you are describing isn't that. Both these arguments have the form:
1.Samu's EoD1 was bad.
2.If Samu's EoD1 was bad, then Samu is mafia.
Therefore, Samu is mafia.

This is a valid argument form called Modus Ponens. It isn't clear that the premises are true, but the argument form itself is not circular, and it is a valid deduction (assuming the truth of the premises).

A (invalid) circular argument would be something like:
1.If Samu's EoD1 was bad, then Samu is mafia.
2.If Samu is mafia, then Samu's EoD1 was bad.
Therefore, Samu is mafia.

EoD1 votes as far as I can tell:

I'm going to start at the point where a wagon started forming on me. If people voted in the poll only, I may not add their votes here:

(Falcon's vote was on me from way earlier)

#747 - HK votes me
#750 - Marmot votes me
#773 - Esooa votes me

At this point, I had 4 votes on me, and I think all the other wagons were vanity wagons with 1 vote each. Not sure what all those votes were though.

#775 - BK votes Gavial
#786 - Marmot vote Gavial
#807 - I vote HK
#851 - BK votes Falcon
#860 - Marmot votes HK
#870 - Samu votes HK
#871 - BK votes HK

At this point HK has 4 votes - {Seanzie, Marmot, Samu, BK}. Immediately before Samu's vote, HK had 2 votes, and I think my wagon was in the lead with 3, so Samu's vote tied HK and my wagons.

#928 - Esooa votes Marmot
#942 - Samu votes Jessie
#947 - Esooa votes Jessie
#985 - HK votes Marmot

I think there were some uncalled votes before HK's Marmot vote. Marmot is already gearing up to shoot, so I think his wagon was in the lead even before HK's vote. It maybe was something like Urist, Gavial and Esooa on Marmot prior to HK's vote?

#999 - Marmot votes Esooa

Day ends.

Final VC with HK removed:

Marmot (3*): urist, esooa, gavial
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (5): bo*, sean*, jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

Final VC with HK added back in:

Marmot (4): urist, esooa, gavial, HK
HK (2): BK, Seanzie
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (3): jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

So, looking at this, Samu joined HK's wagon for a little while, then was the first off the wagon. It looks like Samu moved from HK to Jessie when there wasn't a counterwagon to HK yet, and I suppose it looks good that Samu didn't move to Marmot when Marmot's wagon grew, but the move itself brought HK's wagon down to 3 votes, one of which was Marmot, meaning that a wagon on Marmot was much easier to form to save HK.

Conclusion: Samu's HK vote tied the wagons between me and HK, and BK voted HK right afterwards to push HK ahead. Samu moved from HK to Jessie shortly after that, which could be Samu trying to distance from HK, but not actually bus HK. Esooa was pushing pretty hard for Jessie at that point, so Samu voting for Jessie could have also been to try to get another wagon going, but I really don't like how Samu stayed there, rather than picking a side between HK and Marmot.

Other people: Urist and Gavial both ended up on Marmot, which is bad. Falcon ended up on a vanity wagon on me, which also doesn't look great. TSP didn't vote and has been pretty much absent all game, which IDK what that means. BK was on HK, which looks good.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:52 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:43 am

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 am

BoKnows wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:35 am

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:30 am

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:28 am

BoKnows wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:22 am

What pact? I'll get you a list of my reads. What dunning kruger syndrome? I don't think the dunning kruger exists in mafia. Gavial won't be mod killed for lying about his red peek. I think Gavial is trying to be manipulative to get falcon voted out. Which in itself is scummy asf, but the reasons to town read Gavial vastly outweigh that. DOOM probably got modkilled for talking about another live game in this game, but that's the end of that conversation. What are your questions?

What makes scum to you?

What makes me top poe instead knowing of who gavial/falcon is lying about the red cop?

This to begin with.

What makes me scum to you?*

Night 1 EoD still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Right now I have to scum hunt in Urist, Samu, Falcon, and TSP. Out of those 4 I think Urist is the most towny. Out of the remaining three all of your guy's play has been similar enough, but it all comes back to that bad play on N1.

How unvoting and voting an afk that were killed the same night is a bad play in a scum way.

Please, everybody reflect on this.

I have been accused that my unvote and vote for jessie was mafia because thatoa had cfd HK.

Right now we know that esooa was town and his cfd was genuine in thinking hk was town.

We also know that marmot shot hk before the end of the day therefore his lynch could no longer happen.

I at that point had stopped being in the game to be with my partner.

What would have changed if I didn't unvote hk? The answer is nothing since the cfd from esooa to marmot happened regardless of what I said or did, moreover I had tried minutes before to check how people saw a wagon a long con and get reads, but I never participated in the cfd to marmot.

Do you think if I am mafia with hk before hk has been shot by marmot does it make any sense for me to leave the game and not defend hk that way?

This is the d1 count

Marmot (3*): urist, esooa, gavial
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (5): bo*, sean*, jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

Tell me now, what makes my vote for jessie more scum than urist's vote to finish off marmot?

You didn't even end up voting and when I was still and proposed LC you even joined pretty quickly without giving much explanation that wagon you joined would also save HK, isn't that also a terrible bad move?

When esooa was still alive and thought he was mafia he could accept that my move was bad and that if esooa made flip scum, I would go after because it's easy for a scum to make a case through my eod.

But this was not the case, despite esooa having made town flip, urist and now you have continued like a fly in summer insisting and insisting like a light and slight buzz throughout the thread that samu is mafia because his move in the eod is bad.

And since samu's move is bad, then samu is mafia. This argument is circular starts where it ends and ends where it starts but there is no real reasoning behind it.

I'm going to say it very clearly, you don't have the balls to explain why a scum samu would make that vote move in the d1 eod and not just any other move nor do you have the balls to say why that move is more scumness than other players with current game information.

This is really bad reasoning. I need to go look back at EoD1 to see exactly how things went down, but now that I'm looking at this vote count, Samu moving from HK to Jessie made it so that Marmot couldn't self-pres onto HK since it would have been 3 to 4...

Im doing my best here to translate what i want to say and why the argument of me being mafia is circular.

If u want to point something i will read u.

How is the argument circular?

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 am

BoKnows wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:35 am

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:30 am

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:28 am

BoKnows wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:22 am

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:13 am

BoKnows wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:38 am [VOTE: Samu] aubergine

I still want to check what gavial says what happens if he breaks the pact.

Now I also find no reason for you to vote for me anymore and when I have asked every player in game to first tell his reads calmly who is his core, who he distrusts etc to see how his read development progresses in game.

What I can't accept is this kind of actions where ego can to reason and all town players suffer from dunning kruger syndrome.

Right now I'm trying to delve into gavial's accusation to falcon, what happens if he doesn't keep the pact, can he be modkill? Can that be the reason why doom received modkill?

I have so many questions to clarify to understand certain parts of the game that when I'm wanting to go deeper and understand the development and approach of the game that if I don't get this off my chest now by writing this to the two stone eaters who voted for me I'm going to want to strangle someone in the next half hour.

This is what you are doing is being complete idiots.

What pact? I'll get you a list of my reads. What dunning kruger syndrome? I don't think the dunning kruger exists in mafia. Gavial won't be mod killed for lying about his red peek. I think Gavial is trying to be manipulative to get falcon voted out. Which in itself is scummy asf, but the reasons to town read Gavial vastly outweigh that. DOOM probably got modkilled for talking about another live game in this game, but that's the end of that conversation. What are your questions?

What makes scum to you?

What makes me top poe instead knowing of who gavial/falcon is lying about the red cop?

This to begin with.

What makes me scum to you?*

Night 1 EoD still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Right now I have to scum hunt in Urist, Samu, Falcon, and TSP. Out of those 4 I think Urist is the most towny. Out of the remaining three all of your guy's play has been similar enough, but it all comes back to that bad play on N1.

How unvoting and voting an afk that were killed the same night is a bad play in a scum way.

Please, everybody reflect on this.

I have been accused that my unvote and vote for jessie was mafia because thatoa had cfd HK.

Right now we know that esooa was town and his cfd was genuine in thinking hk was town.

We also know that marmot shot hk before the end of the day therefore his lynch could no longer happen.

I at that point had stopped being in the game to be with my partner.

What would have changed if I didn't unvote hk? The answer is nothing since the cfd from esooa to marmot happened regardless of what I said or did, moreover I had tried minutes before to check how people saw a wagon a long con and get reads, but I never participated in the cfd to marmot.

Do you think if I am mafia with hk before hk has been shot by marmot does it make any sense for me to leave the game and not defend hk that way?

This is the d1 count

Marmot (3*): urist, esooa, gavial
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (5): bo*, sean*, jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

Tell me now, what makes my vote for jessie more scum than urist's vote to finish off marmot?

You didn't even end up voting and when I was still and proposed LC you even joined pretty quickly without giving much explanation that wagon you joined would also save HK, isn't that also a terrible bad move?

When esooa was still alive and thought he was mafia he could accept that my move was bad and that if esooa made flip scum, I would go after because it's easy for a scum to make a case through my eod.

But this was not the case, despite esooa having made town flip, urist and now you have continued like a fly in summer insisting and insisting like a light and slight buzz throughout the thread that samu is mafia because his move in the eod is bad.

And since samu's move is bad, then samu is mafia. This argument is circular starts where it ends and ends where it starts but there is no real reasoning behind it.

I'm going to say it very clearly, you don't have the balls to explain why a scum samu would make that vote move in the d1 eod and not just any other move nor do you have the balls to say why that move is more scumness than other players with current game information.

This is really bad reasoning. I need to go look back at EoD1 to see exactly how things went down, but now that I'm looking at this vote count, Samu moving from HK to Jessie made it so that Marmot couldn't self-pres onto HK since it would have been 3 to 4...

Gavial wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:52 pm @Seanzie
Assuming I die tonight, hit within Samu/Urist tomorrow.

Aren't you pushing for Falcon though? Why Samu/Urist over Falcon?

Gavial wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:14 pm Ok well unless it’s confirmed we only have 2 scum left and it isn’t 3 scum LYLO they need to claim.

I think it is extremely unlikely that there are 3 scum left. 4 scum to 10 town is pretty heavily unbalanced. Unless if Dunya is 100% compelled to townside (which I don't think really fits the demon theme), this would be very unfair.

Urist wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:48 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:21 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:08 pm Samu should definitely be in the poe considering his play yesterday @Seanzie

Idk why you keep pushing this, but I don't see it.

If you don't believe what I said yesterday then look at his most recent posts. None of the things he's accusing me of are even close to accurate. And "getting tired of you" is not how town talks to someone they're confident is scum, it's how scum tries to insert some sort of emotion into their posts to appear genuine.

Call me crazy, but you look a whole lot worse from these exchanges than he does.

BoKnows wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:29 pm

Samusamu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:28 pm Im not totally understanding what long con is supposed to investigate,.a status? If a nontown role do something to someone?

I think he was the sheriff

What do you mean?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:01 pm So we only have 1 ML left, meaning we need a winning PoE with 3 people.

I think Urist and Falcon should definitely both be in there, Gavial never should be. Samu I also think is okay. So BK or TSP would be a third, probably TSP if I had to choose one of those two GTH.

So like {Urist,Falcon,TSP}? Are there any anti-team pairs in there?

I'm fine with this POE

So do you think the scum team is exactly Urist/TSP then?

Urist wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:08 pm Samu should definitely be in the poe considering his play yesterday @Seanzie

Idk why you keep pushing this, but I don't see it.

So we only have 1 ML left, meaning we need a winning PoE with 3 people.

I think Urist and Falcon should definitely both be in there, Gavial never should be. Samu I also think is okay. So BK or TSP would be a third, probably TSP if I had to choose one of those two GTH.

So like {Urist,Falcon,TSP}? Are there any anti-team pairs in there?

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:41 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:39 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:36 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:05 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:49 pm

BoKnows wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:47 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:46 pmlc town

explain

samu is voting for him

How does this imply that LC is town?

bc samu is mafia and mafia don't vote mafia

Can you walk me through your case on Samu?

it's in my iso

So your case on Samu is pretty much just about his EoD vote? What do you think about the rest of his play?

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:36 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:05 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:49 pm

BoKnows wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:47 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:46 pmlc town

explain

samu is voting for him

How does this imply that LC is town?

bc samu is mafia and mafia don't vote mafia

Can you walk me through your case on Samu?

In fact, [VOTE: Esooa] aubergine

She has by far the most partner equity with HK, and we need to resolve her.

Gavial wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:05 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:03 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:43 pm Pretty sure if we follow DOOM’s PoE of Urist/LC/Tony/Falcon we win the game.

I think Esooa should be in this group for sure, and honestly should just be today's lunch.

I’d disagree, I don’t think they say what they said at very end of EoD as scum partners.

I mean, I'll concede that wolf!Esooa would have to be pretty brazen to hard-defend a teammate like this, but I've seen wolves do crazier things.

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:49 pm

BoKnows wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:47 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:46 pmlc town

explain

samu is voting for him

How does this imply that LC is town?

Gavial wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:57 pm I just don’t directly SR Tony it’s just that he’s in the PoE and makes sense as scum.
I SR Falcon for varies of reasons if you search my ISO you can find them.
Falcon gave a decently Villagery post.
But it wasn’t even really that, more just like a cooperative post rather.

Which post is that?

Gavial wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:43 pm Pretty sure if we follow DOOM’s PoE of Urist/LC/Tony/Falcon we win the game.

I think Esooa should be in this group for sure, and honestly should just be today's lunch.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:55 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:45 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:32 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:26 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:23 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:47 pm Esooa is where my vote would be if the deadline was right now. But the deadline isn’t for like 30 hours, so I’m on Long Con because he should be talked about too, according to the small portion of the game I’ve looked at.

Which portion of the game did you look at to lead you to pick out LC here?

Hollowkatt’s ISO

In the posts you quoted, almost none of them were about LC except that last one where HK doesn't seem to want to move to LC. Is that the only post that you want to push LC over?

hollowkatt’s ISO painted over half the game as town in my opinion. That leaves me with only three or four suspects based purely on that exercise. Outside of Esooa, those “suspects” are really just “no reason to town read.” Hollowkatt resisted a vote for Long Con towards the end of the day after saying nothing about him prior to that. When just about everyone else looks town, LC’s relative absence stands out. When he makes an abrupt appearance as someone that hollowkatt did not want to vote for at the deadline, he stands out even more.

However, I want to also temper the idea that I “want to push LC over.” My vote is on him to emphasize that he is someone who I think should be talked about right now. From what I’ve glimpsed, Esooa is already a topic of discussion, so I do not need to emphasize her. My vote at this stage is not about “who I want to chop”, it is about emphasizing things for discussion.

Hmm, okay. I liked your HK ISO analysis, but the fact that you voted LC right after declaring Esooa your top suspect really pinged me. I do agree though that I'd like to see more from LC.

I feel like if Sloonei was a wolf repping into this game D2 and Esooa was town, then Sloonei would just push Esooa here and not bother with LC, so I think Sloonei/Esooa are not w/t. If Esooa flips wolf though, this LC vote I think is pretty questionable.

I would like to draw your attention to the second paragraph in my post.

Yes, I read that, and if you're town, that makes sense. I can't just take your word on your motivations though since if you are a wolf, your actions also fit with possibly trying to save wolf!Esooa here.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:32 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:26 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:23 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:47 pm Esooa is where my vote would be if the deadline was right now. But the deadline isn’t for like 30 hours, so I’m on Long Con because he should be talked about too, according to the small portion of the game I’ve looked at.

Which portion of the game did you look at to lead you to pick out LC here?

Hollowkatt’s ISO

In the posts you quoted, almost none of them were about LC except that last one where HK doesn't seem to want to move to LC. Is that the only post that you want to push LC over?

hollowkatt’s ISO painted over half the game as town in my opinion. That leaves me with only three or four suspects based purely on that exercise. Outside of Esooa, those “suspects” are really just “no reason to town read.” Hollowkatt resisted a vote for Long Con towards the end of the day after saying nothing about him prior to that. When just about everyone else looks town, LC’s relative absence stands out. When he makes an abrupt appearance as someone that hollowkatt did not want to vote for at the deadline, he stands out even more.

However, I want to also temper the idea that I “want to push LC over.” My vote is on him to emphasize that he is someone who I think should be talked about right now. From what I’ve glimpsed, Esooa is already a topic of discussion, so I do not need to emphasize her. My vote at this stage is not about “who I want to chop”, it is about emphasizing things for discussion.

Hmm, okay. I liked your HK ISO analysis, but the fact that you voted LC right after declaring Esooa your top suspect really pinged me. I do agree though that I'd like to see more from LC.

I feel like if Sloonei was a wolf repping into this game D2 and Esooa was town, then Sloonei would just push Esooa here and not bother with LC, so I think Sloonei/Esooa are not w/t. If Esooa flips wolf though, this LC vote I think is pretty questionable.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:23 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:47 pm Esooa is where my vote would be if the deadline was right now. But the deadline isn’t for like 30 hours, so I’m on Long Con because he should be talked about too, according to the small portion of the game I’ve looked at.

Which portion of the game did you look at to lead you to pick out LC here?

Hollowkatt’s ISO

In the posts you quoted, almost none of them were about LC except that last one where HK doesn't seem to want to move to LC. Is that the only post that you want to push LC over?

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:18 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:47 pm Esooa is where my vote would be if the deadline was right now. But the deadline isn’t for like 30 hours, so I’m on Long Con because he should be talked about too, according to the small portion of the game I’ve looked at.

Which portion of the game did you look at to lead you to pick out LC here?

Looks like Hollowkatt was defending me, the jerk.

Ah, it does look like HK didn't want to switch to you even though Samu was pushing for it. What is your read on Samu?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:47 pm Esooa is where my vote would be if the deadline was right now. But the deadline isn’t for like 30 hours, so I’m on Long Con because he should be talked about too, according to the small portion of the game I’ve looked at.

Which portion of the game did you look at to lead you to pick out LC here?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:22 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:22 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:21 am

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:38 pm where I'm at:
town
Gavail
Marmot
Sam

leans town
Doom
Esooa

everyone else is some flavor of POE or another, or I'm not paying attention

Rule of 5?

What is the Rule of 5?

Rule of 3 is if a wolf gives three names for some thing one’s a wolf. This is that but 5

Ah, okay. That makes sense.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:21 am

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:38 pm where I'm at:
town
Gavail
Marmot
Sam

leans town
Doom
Esooa

everyone else is some flavor of POE or another, or I'm not paying attention

Rule of 5?

What is the Rule of 5?