The Syndicate

lol - fair enough.

Spacedaisy wrote:Ok, I want to clarify something. After some consideration I have decided that some of those who died on Blue Laser and who replaced in the game did as much work to contribute to the team win as did those who were alive at the end. So, the winners of this game are as follows:

bea, BigDamnHero, Borokkuei, indiglo, LittleTiger, Matt F, and Timmer. You guys will be included in the Hall of Fame stats/archive, can wear the winners' banner and will also be able to participate in the Champion's game at the end of the year.

I'm still not sure I agree with you. But I love you for thinking it.

Captain Bunny Killer wrote:Thanks, Bea! Ha, I may have a hard time suspecting you, since you kinda took me under your wing, but I'll try to keep this game in mind. I learned a lot this game, and I think now I might be hooked! Although, I really need to take a break for now. The work load of my last semester and applying to grad schools means I really need to buckle down.

I'm glad you learned a lot. And I took you under my wing long before this game.

And I'm completely sure that some day you will turn that table on me and play me because I want to believe my kid is a civ like me. And when you hoodwink me (and I know this day is coming) At end game, I'll still be just as proud of you - because you were my baddie newb first.

Spacedaisy wrote:Stop it! You did fine! You played hard right up until you had to drop out. I have no complaints about your play this game, so quit apologizing and start flying a banner!

maybe.

that said - my inability to follow even the most basic things like that all game long - is just indictive of how distracted I'd been all game long. I'm so sorry - to daisey and the other players - this game never seemed to get as much attention as it deserved - no matter how much attention I gave to it.

Spacedaisy wrote:
bea wrote:
Matahari wrote:Congratulations Lasers! Thank you for a fun game Daisy- and an insanely hard role. Not posting was really difficult. I think I only managed the extra vote two times. Darn it, I knew that rascally Bea was bad.
YOU TOO!!!! DAY 1 MATA!!!!!!

But really why? Why did you vote a teammie day 1 like that? I don't get it. I was thinking I'd work the case that you were the lazor. Really, your defensiveness had me thinking you were a civ..
Mata was The Poopsmith, she was civ.

awesome - I misread page 1 - no shock there.

fair enough - mata - you were right - I was bad bad bad. -

and yes - that avi is swweeeeet - I'd love to hear what sawyer thinks of it.

S~V~S wrote:To be honest, as an Indy SK, I wanted to lynch baddies too. I wanted the cred, plus who needs the competition, right? I really, really, really was sure you were bad.

This is always always what makes svs so formidable. She (and it's a lesson I've tried to adapt to as well) ALWAYS hunts baddies. Now - if she's bad, she may overlook her teammates, but if she is mafia, or an sk or a civ - she is ALWAYS hunting baddies.

It's why she can dance so well. There's been a time or two that I was civ and pretty sure she was bad, but didn't want to get rid of her just yet because she was SO very good at sniffing out the other team.

It's why I ALWAYS take what she has to say with heavy consideration and always why it always takes me least a few days to figure out where she's going with things.

Spacedaisy wrote:A lot of the lack of death were missing PMs. If SVS had not had intent issues, there would have been another Trogdor death each night and TGS were missing PMs. So, quite a bit of death was just the circumstances of the players. However, I am kind of notorious for creating mirror abilities in my games. I like to create various possibilities to explain for circumstances so that nothing is clear cut and players will always have to use their intuition to some extent when deciding what they believe happened. I think otherwise it makes it quite difficult for baddies to really play a game well. So while most of my roles were pretty straightforward, my mirrored abilities caused a lot of question marks for you guys.which was kind of the point. Lol.

lol. I love you daisy.

Lizzy wrote:Yay baddies!

Sorries! I was born one so even when I'm forced to put on civvie clothes I still somehow work for them.

Great game, Daisy and the lot who took part in it!

awe lizzy -

I look forward to the day we are baddies together.

Matahari wrote:Congratulations Lasers! Thank you for a fun game Daisy- and an insanely hard role. Not posting was really difficult. I think I only managed the extra vote two times. Darn it, I knew that rascally Bea was bad.

YOU TOO!!!! DAY 1 MATA!!!!!!

But really why? Why did you vote a teammie day 1 like that? I don't get it. I was thinking I'd work the case that you were the lazor. Really, your defensiveness had me thinking you were a civ..

MovingPictures07 wrote:One thing I did realize is that I spoke TOO much. It was ballsy, yes, but the fact that AP was lynched after my role was revealed tells me I needed to put the brakes on sometimes when I didn't this game. Every time I play a new game, even still, I try to learn something new, so next time I'm going to still be my same old talkative self, but I need to learn when to step back from domineering the thread... which I generally can do, but in this case, I knew I had more information than nearly anyone else on who was baddie and who wasn't, so it led me to believe I needed to steer the thread CONSTANTLY.

It was my first role check role, and while it was fun, I really don't want a civvie role check again. Lol. Too much pressure.

I agree - I still maintain that civ role check is the HARDEST role to play. I did it in Diggz's dr who mafia and I effed it all right up. Poor LT got lynched because I too strongly hinted my role and too strongly stated why I was "pretty sure my gut was right this time." It's impossible to defend against. And it's equally frustrating on the other side, when you KNOW someone is good or bad and there's little you can do about it. I used to think civ ninja was the hardest role, but I'd rather be the ninja than the role check ANY day.

It's why russti's performance in Grimm impressed me so much. (though we did threaten to kill him if he info dumped. Like to the point where we told him it'd be better to send us a message asking if you can post this if you think you are like 4 miles NEAR the line of info dumping.)

Llama's taking you and Matt to the show the same night was just brilliant both for him *AND* us. We were hecka pleased about how much cred Matt gained by pointing that out to you.

Spacedaisy wrote:Also, while you won't be listed in the winners since you were dead, any Blue Laser teammate that wishes to fly the winner banner is welcome to. You all contributed, this includes the original players like Matt F and Bea who worked hard for a team win until they were suddenly not able to play.

Awe Daisy - that is sweet of you. I shall think of whether or not I deserve to fly it and adjust my siggy when I come to a decision.

Thank you. I TRULY loved this game and didn't want to quit, real life really did just dump a bunch of crap into my lap (and a nice bit of good that made dealing with the crap much more bearable). As hard of a time as I was having keeping up on the billion posts a day working 35 hours a week, I knew it'd be impossible once my work load moved to 60 hours a week. (That said - last pay - I had 40 hours of overtime! woot!!!!! *dance*)

GO TEAM BLUE LAZOR!!!! I'm sooooo very proud of you all!!!

Especially BDH. Being new to mafia, once he was recruited he made a VERY wise decision. He said early on in bts - I'll check in and I'll vote where you need me to vote if I can, but outside of this, I'm just going to keep playing the game as if I'd never been recruited. While I was playing, we were kinda secretly hoping he'd get more heat than he did because we could have defended the eff out of him and when he was lynched, well - you lynched Strongbad.

While he and MP were going so hot and heavy? Yea, that's why I kept not so subtly defending BDH - I KNEW he was strongbad.

MP - that said, I did waffle back and forth about you a lot. I knew you were off your game due to RL - but I've been a baddie that's used RL before - and I know how easily we dismissed your RL stuff in the indy game. fwiw - If I'd have had a solid read on you - I would have stood up for you as much as I did CBK. I think, tbh - you get typecast as a baddie so much that to people have a hard time seeing you as a civ. I know I've had limited experience with your civ game. And you're such a

host, that well....it's easy to jump there. (MP = the new SVS? Discuss.) I really did think for a lot of the time I was playing that you were probably the Cheerleader. I never would have guessed agleam.

Speaking of CBK! - OH MY GOD!! Good job Girl! I will always have a soft spot for you as your first game was as a baddie with me. I'm sure that some day you will use that against me and again at the end of the game I'll say the same thing as I say now. I'm so very proud of you!!!!! You did a great job this game!

I third the notion of SVS having a Trogar banner. She is amazing when she's dancing for her life. I can't even begin to count all the times she's made me second guess myself when she was bad. But my favorite was Splintsy's Big Bang Theory mafia - where Tranq was Lenard and I was Penny (which I still say making the math dumb bartender the math dumb waitress was total type casting) SVS was the last baddie for us to get rid of. Tranq KNEW from checks and this and that and stuff I couldn't follow that she was the last baddie. I kept reading her posts and in bts I was all "but - what if we're wrong? She sounds so honest!" Like I was the last vote. I sooo didn't want to vote her. Tranq was all yelling at me in bts "DAMNIT BEA JUST TRUST ME AND FUCKING VOTE!"

So yea - that's all I got. I'm on Mafia hiatus till after the new year. I promised my one true love and that's a promise no one can make me break.

I have no idea what's going on in this game anymore - just wanted to pop in and say that I miss you guys.

Spacedaisy wrote:Effective immediately LittleTiger will be replacing Bea, please make her welcome! Since you all have left her over two thousand nice little post presents to make this a truly daunting task, she will not be lynchable tonight and she will be protected in the following night phase in order to allow her to get a feel for the game. I am still looking for a replacement for Matt F.

I'm so sorry I had to leave a turely awesome game. You know I love you all, my work exploded on me and I don't think I'll have the time to give any of my mafia games the time they deserve. I've asked to be replaced in all of them.

Thank you SO SO SO much LT for stepping in. I know how daunting this task is. You are my hero.

Attention Ladies and Gentlemen, today only we have one lynch vote for sale! It is the most amazing lynch vote ever! It slices, it dices, it mixes and minces! Just when you think it can't do anymore, it makes coffee for you! Today's lucky recipients could be just about anyone. I think that perhaps Dom might be onto something with his "people less likely to send in a pm" theory though I have had a pretty civ read of snowy and I can never read vompi. I feel like I'm missing something regarding llama's opinion that CBK has been inconsistent in her posting. Can you show me where?

Just remember today's lynch vote is offered for the amazingly low price of 3 easy payments of $19.99. Call now!!!!!!

MovingPictures07 wrote:OK, just ate breakfast, going to start my practice GMAT right after I post this, then have to study more, then have plans, etc. Tomorrow I also really need to study, but will be able to post at some point. I didn't intend on coming back this morning, but I'm an addict and read the two posts, and i have just two more things to say, and then I really don't have time AND I want to step away anyway because this is so counterproductive to the civvie cause to continue to focus on me (agreed with you, bea, that's exactly what's happening) and so fucking tiring (seriously, can anyone understand how exhausting this is for me? Especially after so many games where I have to do this CONSTANTLY?):

1. Dom, I'm not asking ANYONE to trust me. I never have. I'm asking you to re-consider and try to have an open mind.

2. bea, just on your topic of RL. I understand this. But how can anyone crusade against me like this? Multiple people ahve said this doesn't seem like MP or whatever -- has anyone considered everything that's going on in my life right now may have had at least some impact on that, really? or that the fact that I'm totally on my own and everything I am saying could be totally what's going on to actually be a consideration?

It bothers me so DAMN much that there are players who refuse to consider these things. I am notorious for my tunnel vision and even I eventually sat back and took a step back from my llama argument to realize it was all based on just INTERPRETATIONS. Just like everything that's been said about me. It completely wreaks of either insanely closed-minded civvie or a determined baddie to me.

Linki with bea and Mongoose, not responding, really have to go

Alex, here is my one and only suggestion for you. Step away. Focus on your exams. Focus on your family. RL is WAY more important than these games. I know you want to play the best game you can play because it's Daisy's game. I didn't want to ask to be replaced for the same reason, but RL is RL. Maybe - just maybe - if you fade away a little, the thread won't be dominated with is MP good or bad? - I know that you feel the need to defend everytime your name is brought up - but both of us agree that it's derailing the thread at this point. And I think others would agree with that as well. Come back - post when you can - I am willing to give you the BOTD for at least a cycle to see what else turns up in your quiet.

Mongoose wrote:Timmer - These are all thoughts for you or replying to you:

- Trogdor can't kill himself if he picks the hut he is in. We asked Daisy for clarification on that, so you might have already seen that in your reread since that post.

That's a good catch about AP stating he hopes Trogdor is likely to catch a civ. I hope he clarifies what he means on that.He says wacky things so maybe he mispoke or maybe it really was a slip.

MP Explains later that 1% civ means more likely civ than baddie, if only a little bit. He even made a little chart. He starts super duper suspecting me out of nowhere though later. I still don't really think he's bad even after his about-face on me. I think he is desperate (Don't take that the wrong way,MP) to win a game finally on his own freakin site and he gets mislynched so easily around here that I think that's why he's coming off the way he is. We aren't teammates though. I've gone back and forth on him a bit in my head and it seems like he is doing the same with me. Those would be some really obvious tactics if we were bad. I'd hope that if we are on a baddie team together sometime, they we will be much more slick than that.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked the 'clowncar' term!

Honestly, it seems like the people who have played games with me multiple times before suspect me less and see that this is my textbook civ game. It doesn't vary much! I think once you and I get to play together more often, you'll be able to see it too. It seems like the only players doubting my civ-ness are new kids or people I've not interacted with a lot, but let the record reflect I'm not a BLue Laser, not Trogdor and not a Teen Girl. You may even have a guess on who I am; the breadcrumbs are certainly there.

I wish I could find the crumbs - I would omnomnom them. alas - I am over worked and under paid

that said, goosey - I vibe you as civ so - ya know -take that for what it's worth...

Dom wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:This is in response to Dom, but also everyone else who is crusading that I am bad, because I just don't have the time nor the desire to address all of you separately when this should suffice:

Dom wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote: Linki with Dom: You're wrong, that's why you should NOT continue voting for me. The fact that you refuse to even consider you're wrong is continually bothersome. I've been in defensive mode ALL GAME and you still have not even explained why other than just that I'm apparently NO U'ing and whatever. You also never responded to my questions in an earlier post asking you how your assessment was fair.
"You shouldn't vote me because I'm civvie!"

That's what you're saying.

I HAVE explained. I have said that it's strange that you won't address real questions to you (see Juliets who asked why it's okay for you to build a bullshit case on llama but not for timmer to suspect you). I think you're lashing out at people who question your motives rather than explain them and just assume that everyone thinks you're civvie. I explained this earlier, but you all but ignored it and said, "I'm not NO-Uing you might be bad"

This is not the MP I know.

Also, my wifi went down while catching up last time, so if I missed a post by you, please let me know.
I'm sorry, I can't explain my intentions any more than I already have. They just are what they are. Yes, I came up with that huge case on llama and I thought he was bad. Then I changed my mind. I'm allowed to change my mind. I was being very narrow-minded. I realize I'm lashing out at you and timmer, but understand it from my point of view; it feels like players have been relentlessly attacking me all game, and this has happened game after game after game, and I just don't know what to say to it. I sincerely believe that the baddies would really want me dead, so it's coloring my viewpoint of players that continuously gun after me, without considering that I could even be civvie. Yes, for the longest time, I gunned after llama and didn't consider him to be civvie. I screwed up. I realize anyone going after me could do the same thing. But consider this...

This is all I really know:
- I am a civvie
- I am pretty damn positive Devin and llama are both civvies

And that's it. So to me, anyone who refuses to recognize any of those facts could be someone who knows exactly what I'm talking about and yet refuses to acknowledge it because they want me gone. It's really hard to get that train of thought out of my mind when evaluating your and timmer's and other player's intentions. Because to me, all you guys are doing is not helping at all, you're just relentlessly attacking me and you're not helping us sort out baddies. I realize if you actually are civvie it doesn't seem that way to you at all, but I know my own alignment and role. I don't know yours and timmer's. I believe I've even set up the circumstances so that someone could deduce my role. I didn't want to do it, but I believe it's possible for someone to do so. Regardless of that, which is possibly remote but it is out there, but I've laid myself out there COMPLETELY. My intentions are just so out there in all of my posts. There's nothing else I could give in this game. Devin was absolutely spot on with his evaluation of me in every regard and no one seems to consider that at all. That's why it bothers me even more there are still certain players that just won't consider that I'm civvie here and that I'm just really lost.

It's very possible it's not the MP you know. I've felt like a lost soul all game. I really don't know what's going on.

CBK, you're just so freaking wrong. They are not contradictions. Maybe they look like they are, but they aren't. See above. I even said in the heat of the moment I really felt there have been baddie pushes to get me lynched just to make my intentions seem contradictory and uncivvie. They are not though. I don't know what else to say.

And timmer, same to you. I even specified to juliets that I actually suspected you FIRST, not the other way around. It's not a NO U. But I have to say the fact that you just came in here and started gunning after me after you defended me struck me as really weird.

Can't any of you understand and attempt to see this from my point of view? Just take a step back and realize in some set of circumstances that I could be civvie. How else am I supposed to act here? I just am being constantly crushed by this boulder of accusations that I really can't even defend against and it's really tiring and frustrating.

I'm sorry, I just don't know what else to say to yours and timmer's and other player's posts about me. I feel I've addressed them adequately. It's all interpretations of my actions.
This is a big "No, you're wrong" with zero defense, just saying that if you don't recognize things YOU know to be true, you don't trust those people. Which isn't fair considering why should I trust you at all??????

WTF MP?

this post makes me actually want to go look up CBK's post - because llama also said he didn't buy her case on MP - and I'm sorry - I've had too many beers to do the research, but I don't think CBK's post about MP was invalid.

As I read CBK's post - I totally understood what she was saying - what did I miss?

MovingPictures07 wrote:I have nothing else to say. If someone wants to actually give me something to defend against, fine. But I've posted so freaking much on this matter and so many others, and I have a busy weekend, so unless anything new comes up, I'm done. I've already addressed the train of thought behind why it seems I may be making NO U's, or why it seems I may be all over the place (I'm not suspecting everyone, I truly have no idea on most people and trying to get discussion out, I've said this), I already explained multiple times why I was gunning after llama and then I dropped it, and why I did what I did on Day 0, and I don't know what else to say.

I feel like talk about me has been taking up this thread so much and it's distracting from other conversation. Lynching me will seriously accomplish NOTHING. Anyone who thinks I'm baddie, please just take a step back, consider that you may be wrong, and re-read my posts, especially the four I made yesterday before I thought I was going to die, with a fresh mind. If that doesn't convince you, I don't know waht else to do. But I'm just feeling really crushed. I am constantly torn between just letting myself be lynched and my intentions revealed so that it can give the civvies so much more information and help my cause, and trying to stay alive as much as possible because I am a civvie and want to help and being alive helps so much, if not in that regard but beyond that as well. I've said this before. It could indicate something. PLEASE consider all of the facts. I will eat a fucking hat if Devin was bad. I really will. I'm getting to that point with llama as well. If you look at my posts with a fresh mind and still don't understand, consider how that could be the case. I have nothing else I can even put into my efforts this game.

I am going to be really busy this weekend so in addition to my feelings above I feel I need to take a step back from this thread and let others contribute for a while. But it sucks because while I feel that, others are relentlessly attacking me and I have to defend myself from being railroaded. But now I've said everything I need to say, even multiple times. Those people who keep pushing uncertainty about Devin being civvie are either clueless or baddies trying to push lies. Please re-read his posts. He said he knew he would survive a particular night. THink about his actions. He couldn't have made it any more clear IMO and yet people are ignoring this or something.

In summary, read my last four posts from yesterday with a fresh mind. I'm done on the matter. I am super busy today. I'll be back tomorrow.

Alex. I love you. You know I do. And you know very well how I feel all flippty floppity about you this game. You have to at least kinda understand why I'm flippity floppity. The fact that you don't address the fact that I have very good reasons to be unsure of you makes me think you are withholding. I'm in 3 games and my RL is exploding in exponential levels. To the point that I'm asking all my hosts to search out replacements. But still, I'm going to play the game as best as I can while I'm here.

I actually agree with you in the point that the talk of you has taken up too much time of the thread. It has hindered us finding baddies. We've lynched two civs in a row now, and lots of our discussion has been about you. And not the people who actually get voted for. I feel like this is a conversation that no one wants to take a stand on for fear of being wrong. I just can't figure out if your posts are subtly encouraging us to keep talking about you or not. Part of me believes you are a civ AND that same part of me wants to say "just let's lynch him so we'll be done with it and know for sure." That makes me VERY uncomfortable. I don't like thinking that way about a potential teammate. And that right there is what keeps me thinking you might yet be a baddie. Don't you understand what I'm saying here???

I would ask BDH - who has been focused on you so much, who he would vote for if MP weren't an option?

I would also ask this of Timmer and Dom.

During this next phase - while I understand that MP may be baddie mcbadderson, where else would you look? I do truely feel like he's gotten way too much attention. And it's making things easy for the baddies to pick us off one by one.

Bullzeye wrote:
BigDamnHero wrote:That's a HORRIBLE result from the lynch...horrible but somehwat telling. Like a few others have previously said, I was working under the theory that Devin was the King...so either he was full of poo and gambled that no one would call him out on the revival ability or...or...ok I can't think of any other reason why he would claim he rezzed Bullzeye. Kind of makes me wonder about Bullzeye's affiliation to be honest...

Gotta eat then time for more catch-up....mmmmm, ketchup!
The one piece of information regarding Devin I have that nobody else has for certain is that I am a civ. So if he was bad then he was lying about having rezzed me. If he was lying someone would definitely have called him out on it. No civ would let a baddie lie and take credit for something they know is not true. Therefore in my mind, Devin was definitely civ. Wonder about me all you like though.

I don't wonder so much about you as I do Devin (I actually have pretty good feelings about you). Since we now know that Lizzy was the King, (and wasn't around to see him claim that stuffs) well, he may have been making a calculated risk. I mean it's a bold move for sure, but IDk what other civ role could have rezzed you bullz. What am I missing here? I'm playing 3 games at once and my work is very much on the edge of blowing the eff up right now (to the point of maybe needing replaced) so - I do need some help figuring out the finer hints.

timmer wrote:And one last bit I had put separate because its OT:

bea wrote:
and the phrase "secret event" gives me crazy ptsd about being trapped in a chat room for a weekend searching for flags..... *kicks wabbit.* if the secret event is something not going on publicly, I'm glad to be in the dark about it.
Good christ, I spent so many hours searching for that flag. that was... awful. But memorable!

I swear you, JC and Golden will always have the most special place in my heart. By the end of that game, I didn't care who won so long as one of you did. I can't tell you how many of those hours my poor sweetie was all "let's do something." and I was all "NO!! WE MUST FIND THIS FUCKING FLAG!!!" that never ended up existing. I still say if I ever meet wabbit, I'm going to punch him in the face and say "Fuck you flag hunting!" then hug the hell out of him because he's wabbit and I adore him.

As for the non -ot part you mentioned me - I asked the hostess if I was allowed to talk about my poll removal and she said no. So - I do have a theory as to why I was removed. IDK if anyone else that has been removed can say why they were or not. Till I see others talk about it, I'm still going on what the hostess with the mostess told me.

ok - more catching up....

linki - alex is here? and I'm not caught up - that's sad for me.

I wish I'd been around earlier to get to actually talk to him. It's the 3 game curse.

and now I'm back to catching up....

RIP Lizzy

- your abyss is pretty though

I agree with everything mata said up there regarding mp and timmer. I just apparently can't express it. I sooo need to make my first stop on the errands task be "caffine."

I'm going with DP . I agree that he's the better choice about trogar.

Lizzy always reads pretty flipant and wifomish with her posts and I didn't see her infamous baddie in Thomas. She may yet be bad, but I don't think she's trogar.

llama - I did get to re-read what you are saying about gleaming. You could be on to something. It's definitely worth into more. Gleam hasn't really posted much since then has he? I don't remember him sticking out in my head like at all. I do disagree with you that it's unlikely that 3 civs could have received info on the day 0 poll. I think my each baddie team, the indi, and then 3 separate civs got info on the day 0 poll makes more sense than any of the other wonky theories out there at the time. So his admitting to info alone isn't enough for me, but I get where you're going.

I'm sorry I didn't make it back last night, I went to lay down for my nap and my phone blew right the heck up with work issues. By the time that was sorted and I ate foodstuffs, I pretty much crashed and burned.

I honestly keep flipping back and forth about how I feel about MP. I can't tell if he's in defensive civ mode or defensive baddie mode.

I have to get my To Do list for the day together but I'm currently leaning on following Goosie with a DP vote. It would have made a lot of sense for trogar to pick the hut that they targeted since they can't self target.

I'll give it a bit to brew in my head then I shall return.

Oh - also - Speaking of IRL friends - I spoke with SVS on the phone today about some other stuff going on in my worlds. She asked me to pass along the message to the thread that her intnernets went down last night and that is why she hasn't been around. She's hoping they come back up again at some point tonight. So, for those wondering, that's why SVS's been quiet.

Ok - nappies for real this time!

And caught up.....those 4 pages went faster. Though my headz are just as confused. I caught a bit of insomnia last night, woke up at 2 am and could not sleep. Had to get ready for work, just as I was getting tired. So...um...yea...I've been up for a while. I need dinner and a nap and I'm sure lots of this will make more sense.

I've seen several mentions of llama's case on gleam, and I know I read it, but for the life of me I can't recall it. I'm mostly putting that bit in so that when I see this post nap, I search his posts and find the gleam case.

I think it sounds more plausable that Dfaraday, DP or Timmer would be trogar than Lizzy. The more LIzzy was talking, the less sense the idea of her being trogar seemed to me.

Ok. nap now. Then my sweetie brings me foods. Then I'll be back to try to decide where to vote. I'll vote before I turn in for the night as I'm apparently on call to have my schedule completely changed at pretty much a second's notice. boss's wife's about to go into labor aaaannnny day now....

MovingPictures07 wrote:I was honestly hoping for more discussion by the time lunch rolled around... I really want to hear from players regarding others; instead I got a bunch of posts from Dom saying how baddie I am because I'm apparently suspecting everyone and then a few other players (such as bea) just agreeing with it.

Disappointing.

MP - I'll try to explain this as best as I can. I've flip flopped a lot about how I think about you. Once post makes me think "ok, surely he's civ" the next post makes me think "oh, no, I'm being played again." I'm having a very difficult time deciding how I feel about you. I've been more than up front about it the whole way through the game, though not once yet has the "Ok, I'm being played" feeling been strong enough for me to earn a vote. In short, I keep holding two contrary opinions about you in my head. They are fighting a war in there. Believe me, I like the yelling in my brainz even less than you do.

I get that something happened yesterday during the lynch because of Matt that made you change your mind about llama. That said, I don't know if I trust you, I'm not sure how I feel about Matt either. He's always hard for me to to decide if he's being wacky for the sake of it or if he's being misleading. Hell, for all I know, you and Matt could be teammates. I'm doing the best I can to try to figure it all out.

Back to catching up....

Dom wrote:
Mongoose wrote:
Dom wrote: But they both announced that EXTREMELY early. I feel like they set things up. Maybe not together, but I feel like they're trying to control teh thread into chaos.
Their cease-fire was really weird, especially from MP's end. But I wanted to give them both a little BOTD because I felt MP stumbled onto something about Llama that I 1) do not know and 2) still can't figure out and 3) MP can't tell us without rule breaking or rule skirting.

Do you think it's more than that, Dom?
Moreso with MP than with Llama. i feel like MP is abandonning a case because no one is buying the product anymore... and he doesn't want to be accused of being single minded and such.

i find MP's "yeah let's look everywhere else but where we were because that was at ME" to be weird.

this feels like a fair point as well.

bea wrote:
Ok - so, now we've come to Llama and MP.

This is a thing that I'm not quite sure where I stand on yet. They both seem to have bad feelings about each other, but most of it that is actually defendable seems to be pretty minor. A lot of it (that I can remember) seems to be "gut feelings" And they fall into that "dude I know you so well" category so it's hard to filter out stuff that doesn't just come down to trusting either llama about MP or MP about llama.

As far as I can see from MP - the most suspish thing that has me keeping an eye on him is the Vomp vote. Yes he voted civ, but I have to agree with Vomp, I don't think it did him any favors. Vomp easily could have been lynched Day 1 instead of Elo, but MP's 2nd place vote is easy to gloss over if regardless of whether or not Vomp got lynched and flipped civ. Had he got lynched, he could have just as easily fell back on "I was following someone else's lead as I had no real suspicion" (which is pretty much what he said in his vote post if I recall correctly) as he has fallen to "I was baddie baiting." this time around. MP's been in enough games to know that statistically we tend to lynch a civ more often on day 1 than we do a baddie. And if he wasn't suspish of Vompie, he had to know that placing a vote on him Day 1 put him in danger. It's day 1. LOTS of people randomize. The spread is often huge on Day 1 votes and he could have easily been lynched with as little as 3 votes. Seems like a big risk to take with someone else's life on Day 1. Is the part I can't shake.

llama - I believe someone up there said he sounded "coached." I don't agree with coached either, but maybe "rehearsed" is a better word? Everything he says makes sense. But it's almost like it makes too much sense. Like that feeling you get when someone tries to sell you something "too good to be ture." I could be just miss reading his tone atm as I slammed another zillion pages in one sitting.

And because this game doesn't have ENOUGH wacky theories floating around, part of me wonders if llama and MP aren't doing this to throw some distance on each other. They are both cunning enough players to be able to sound suspish of a teammate but never quite suspish enough to get them lynched. Ya know? (That one there, I admit is kinda a streach, but I know baddie MP can play a pretty ballzy game when he wants to.)

Just sayin' this idea has come up more than once since I posted it - am I the only one that thinks it's a very real possibility? I don't know what to make of either of them (and I admit, I recently leaned more toward civ on MP only because he admitted to having maybe been wrong ) it's an idea i proposed early and have never really completely shaken off.

linkie - w/ goosie -Maybe? IDK - is that idea more valid than the one up there? I'm willing to listen. IDK - I've been drinking so my idea of what I think is right right know could (and most likely is) tainted.

thellama73 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:What do you think of S~V~S and Mata, out of curiosity?
Mata reads fairly civvie, and she voted for Elohcin, so I would say thta at the very least she is not a member of the Girl Squad.

If SVS is a baddie, she's doing an amazing job of it, because she has seemed helpful and inquisitive in the extreme since subbing in. True, she was one of the main campaigners against Hedgeowl, but I thought Hedgeowl's posts looked pretty shifty too when I read them all at once, so I can't really blame her for a mistake I myself made.

linki: I don't know, BWT. I remember when that was posted and you and MP making a big deal out of the word twisting, but I'm afraid it just didn't strike me that way. Granted, that may have been due to the fact that I myself was being heavily accused of twisting MP's words at the time.

svs is always hard for me to read. I always want her to be a civ with me. I tend to never catch she is bad till it is far too late for me.

I think BDH has has a lazor focus this game. I don't think that makes him bad. (he's not the only person this game to make that mistake)

I wish he would widen his scope some and look at other people as well, but I can't fault him for thinking he's onto something.

I've been completely sure I was right more than once. Only to find out I was wrong. I still read him as civ. Maybe misguided but still civ..

birdwithteeth11 wrote:RIP Devin! I was afraid that was going to happen. Good luck with work, your wedding, and any other upcoming endeavors, man! I'll let you know if I hear about anything related to Devy for sure!

juliets wrote: As for the subject of him only suspecting you, my impression was he's had a lot to say about you because, respectfully, you've had a lot to say. Some of the other people - re: the discussion we're having now in the thread - haven't said much at all when it comes to their suspicions. I definitely understand you asking BDH for his other suspicions but I also respect the fact that he feels like he's got something and isn't just letting it drop. All in all, after spending time with his posts I can't find a reason to suspect him. Others may disagree so it would be interesting to hear other opinions.
Just wanted to comment on this really quickly. I can understand this train of thought certainly. But I haven't seen enough from BDH yet to make me think he isn't a baddie.

Matt's theory on Lizzy is very interesting. Couple that with the fact that I am getting a different feel from her this game and I think it's enough to keep an eye on her. Lizzy, is there anyone you are currently suspicious of? I wouldn't mind hearing more from you about where you currently stand.

I think that's it for now. Going to check and make sure I didn't miss anything.

I agree with you that the theory on lizzy is interesting.

While you say there's nothing from bdh that makes you think he isn't a civ is an interesting approach to take on a first time player. Why do you lean more automatically to "I've not seen anything that makes me think he isn't a baddie." I admit - he has some natural skill is there some reason you're wanting him to prove his civness? Something you see as bad? Did I miss something somewhere?

Also - re: gleam - is there a role that actually insanfies? I admit - I'm entertaining company and multitasking several things I have to cook soon so going back and looking is rough for me.

also- I'm quickly reaching the point where my drinking tells me it's time to step away from the intrawebs.

all kinds of linki - posting anyway.

RIP Devin.

Re: strongbad's emails - I believe we were only supposed to e-mail him Night 1. Often in the cartoons strongbad says/sings stuff as he's logging on. That's how I read the night post to be.

Re: Hedige I chose poorly, but I had to vote early. I got in late, I knew I wouldn't be awake when the lynch post was due. I went with the best I had at the time. I had been beginning to see MP turn to be more open minded and seeing where he could have been wrong (which are actions I associate more with a civ MP than a baddie one) so I was feeling better about him, I've not really suspected llama or devin. And it did feel to me that hedgie was glomming onto MP's BDH suspicions. I don't think BDH is bad so it sparked something in my eyes. I was horribly wrong and I feel very badly for that.

I'm not playing my best this game, I know. I admit it's been more than dificult for me to keep up in. Three games is not a good idea (I really learn to get better at saying no to people) plus my 50 hour work weeks on swing shifts plus some other stuff going on in my world, have made focusing on this one a bit difficult. I'm doing the best I can and I promise to try to do better.

wow daisy! that was quick! thanks for the info.

RIP Hedgie.

I'm sorry I was wrong about you.

juliets wrote:
Mongoose wrote: All y'all: This is something I've been mulling: What are the teen girls' motivations to keep The Blue Lasers alive (for now at least) and vice versa?
Usually it's specified in the win conditions that each baddie team has to kill all the civvs, the other baddie team and the SK if there is one. Your question though sent me in search of the win conditions and I can't find them. Hmm. Did someone ask for them earlier and Daisy put them in the thread somewhere? Or did I just not see them? Or are they just not there in which case I'm going to ask Daisy about them.

You know that's a good question. I guess I just inferred that those usual win conditions were the ones in play but as it's not stated, that could very well be an interesting point.

Ok - I'm whipped. I think llama and teefies make good points about hedgie so that's where my vote's going.

vote hedgeowl

I will have to vote tonight before bed as there is no way I'm getting up at 9 am on my day off. I'm not sure where my vote is going, the strongest case appears to be against hedgie but I'm going to eat dinner with my sweetie and mull it over before bed.

S~V~S wrote:
bea wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
BigDamnHero wrote:My main suspicion still lies with Moving Pictures and the following post he made makes it even worse for him in my eyes:

MovingPictures07 wrote:When he could have seriously considered he would be the one to die. Now, ask yourself, if Devin were Crackotage, and you were in his shoes, would you use your lynch stop, especially if you had two? Damn sure I know I would.

It's even possible that Devin is Homsar and knew he will never be lynched. It would actually make a lot of sense given that he is playing a wacky game and posting a ton. Think about it: he is not exactly trying to draw attention to himself, but he seems to think it is harmless.

On the flipside, it is also possible Devin is Cheerleader. But for Devin to be Homsar and Cheerleader, there had to be at least some level of vote manipulation taking place here. The only way that could happen would be the civvie role that has two votes cast his or her second vote for Devin OR one of the secrets. Therefore, those possibilities are less likely.

I think the most plausible explanations for what happened on Day 2 are either of the following:
- Devin decided to stop the lynch, fearing he would die, even though by the end of the period he did not have the most votes.
- llama is Homesar or the Cheerleader. However, his behavior does not seem to match either of these, so if I had to guess, definitely I would say the Cheerleader. Also, I still believe him to be bad, perhaps even more so now, but more on that later.

There are many possibilities, in fact, but I believe both of those to be the most likely.
He started off the game worrying about the TINIEST chance that a civilian role would be compromised during the "Day 1 info" discussions, and now he's basically throwing out players names and the civilian roles he believes them to be! Yes, he gives potential other baddie options, but his entire ideology/strategy seems to be going back and forth and all over the place.
Nice to meet you Hero, you make sense to me. Certain things should not be discussed in the thread; saying "There are civvie reasons for survival" should be enough. I am sure the baddies read the roles, they don't need the civvies pointing things out for them, lol. This is the kind of thing you post in your baddie chatroom, trying to figure out who is who. You don't post it in the thread. But then, MP & I never see eye to eye (although i am old enough to be his Mom, he reminds me of my Dad, the Libertairian Accountant, and I tend to relate to him that way). I have to go back and read his wall'o'texts to have a serious opinion on him.

I just walked in the door, I have to do some stuff, then I will get back in here. But a quick "I have been thinking about this all afternoon at Target & Stop & Shop" post~

At this point, I have my strongest bad feelings about Hedgeowl & Mongoose; if I had to vote this second, it would be for Hedgeowl. In my readback, she dodged a bullet very nicely, and TBH, i don't particularly buy it.

As for the Llama voters, I feel pretty good about BWT, Devin & Snow (or at least not horrible, lol) I am on the fence about Matt, and Waffly, "OMG I DON"T KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE" MP always strikes me as bad. CBK, based on her posts alone, is a bit pingy. I do not know if Daisy cherry picks at all, but I know I would very likely put my fairly noobish sister in BTS with my boyfriend in a heartbeat. Who would take better care of her?

BUT...BUT...BUT...

I don't base decisions on stuff like that, its just a bit of info to process. But the whole "CBK hasn't even posted once", then there she is thing was a bit odd.

@Mata, I tend to distrust Bea quite often. I distrust her here. My opinion on her, IMO, is not all that valuable. Just like DH always thinks I am bad, I always think Bea is bad. So anything I have to say about her, keep that in mind.

But yeah, I have to finish my catch up, but then I plan to reread Hedgie.
I feel like I have to address your CBK concerns. Avant was her first game. She was my baddie teammate. We have no bts in this game, but as well you know me she is forever my puppy. (CBK - this is NOT a bad thing.) In her first game, her disabilities came out bts. And we all had very long talks about them. I was in favor of making her sight issues public because it does affect how people will read her. I'm happy to see that in this game CBK had followed my advice. IDK if she is civ or bad this game. But I know how hard it is for her to actually play the game. And the very fact that she keeps wanting to makes me all kinda proud of her.
Are you trying to make me feel guilty for being pinged by her? I understand how hard it can be to function within limitations, not from anything I personally have had to deal with, other than encroaching old moldiness, but from family members who are deaf, autistic or quadriplegic. And one thing I know from having family members with these issues is that they don't want people to cut them slack for it.

So really not sure why you are bringing this up. You said you wanted to address my concerns; my concern had nothing to do with her blindness. I only mentioned her in passing as she was one of the llama voters, and I was giving my opinions of them as I feel llama is likely civ.

thellama73 wrote:Addendum to the above for Bea:
MP just doesn't seem like his normal self this game. His attack on me borders on desperate. He keeps making mistakes and saying things that aren't true. He accuses me of doing things that he himself is doing. (saying that I am suspicion mongering by bringing up several different names in a post where he calls out three or four people for possible baddieness.) He makes confused and illogical arguments (repeatedly bringing up the fact that I gave SVS the BOTD in Mario when I was not even being particularly accusing of him. He was accusing me!)

Normally his game is so much tighter than this, and it's making me nervous.
I kinda see your point. he is reminding me of his play in a game at HV, where he was a baddie, and he just was all over the map, posting walls'o'text that did not always have continuity, and being a little over the top, like yesterday, reading his posts, I heard William Shatner in my head, lol, "I want answers dammit!!!"

Linki~ Thanks, Llama~ that is kinda what I was seeing too.

In my opinion, she was the only teammate around when Elo went over the top, so she made a save vote. And got caught. She talked her way out of it, but this was her first mention of him:

Hedgeowl wrote:Ok, I voted Vomps and tied it for now. Nobody is jumping out and me now.

Have to go email Strongbad!!!
I am gonna vote now, since I may or may not have time to before work in the AM. I am voting for Hedge.

I was not at all trying to make you feel bad. I didn't know if you were aware of it and I know it tends to affect the way I read her posts - much like knowing about DP's ADD - or knowing when I've been drinking. Sometimes knowing the outside circumstances help to inform how I interpret posts.

I'm sorry if you felt that I was trying to make you feel guilty. It was not my intention in the slightest.

Snow Dog wrote:MP has no evidence besides his read of him this game, Bea. Foe example his not giving the benefit of doubt to people by thinking they are bad rather than misinformed or just civs who came to wrong conclusions.

Yes - snow - I see exactly what you are saying here. It's kinda why in my catch up I was asking MP to explain things to me like I was a 3 year old. I feel like there is lots of talk between llama and MP that comes down to essentially "he said he said."

I said it last cycle and I'll say it again - I want anyone to point me to something concrete that makes MP bad or Llama bad that's not MP thinks llama is bad or Llama thinks MP is bad.

SVS and I know each other very well and she's had this current streak of misreading me (thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt this time SVS) As I tried to tell the newer players fresh eyes are refreshing. I'm not one to buy into "x reads y well" so they must be right argument because I've seen it fail a million times. I've been the both the accuser and the accused.

I do admit - MP's coming out against BDH so strong raises my eyes a bit. I mean, he's been a most wonderful new player, but MP seems pretty convinced he's bad solely because BDH suspects MP of being bad and isn't swayed from that opinion. Isn't that NoU? or am I missing something?

Snow Dog wrote:Why on earth does Bea seem to be ignoring me completely when I address her?

sorry snow - I was trying to catch up on the pages and pages of stuff I'd missed. - I was reading a thing - quoting it - commenting on it - then backscrolling to go back to my catch up - I didn't realize you were here and trying to talk to me because I never stayed on this page long enough to see that someone was trying to talk to me.

I only caught this because I was about to go to the end where I was sure was a lot of my posts to say "I am a page away from being caught up - I can't brain anymore. I'll try again in the morning." When I saw your "why isn't bea talking to me" post. I'll look at what you had to say - and be back with thoughts.

juliets wrote:I don't know if I am going to be able to continue this game or not. Don't get me wrong, it's all kinds of interesting but I can't get my head wrapped around any one person being bad and I think it's because there is just too much talk. I'm going to try again tomorrow to sort through what I've read tonight and see if i can get a handle on it. If not, I will ask to be replaced.

One thing that would help a great deal is if we could keep the OT green to a minimum. Adding that on top of heavy and contentious talk just gets me stuck in "what the hell are they talking about". Coded messages have been passed in OT green in other games I've participated in so I always pay attention to them. I don't mean get rid of all of it - I don't want to be Debbie Downer but just less of it - please.

Ok, I'm getting a good nights sleep and will face this game again tomorrow.

I feel you JC.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
A Person wrote: It also wouldn't make sense if i was trogdor, because I'd highly doubt there is any one hut that's completely empty, and from the way I understand it, any kill is good for him.
Agreed. I don't think you are Trogdor.
I don't like how this read at ALL. You spent most of that page and some of the one before going back and forth about how AP's logic didn't make any sense, and you could consider voting for him, to "Oh, I don't think you're Trogdor at all! " So either you think he's on a baddie team or civvie. To me however, this reads like you think he's civvie. I'm starting to wonder if there were more nefarious reasons for your survival.

Be back with more later.
Did I miss where he was outed as a baddie? While I agree that he has said some odd things, I do not think that that makes A Person a confirmed baddie, yet you speak as if he is. Since you are so sure he is bad, do you plan on voting for AP today?

Why do you think disagreeing with MP makes someone bad?
I would consider him on my short list of people I would currently vote for. So maybe. Whether I end up voting him or not is a different story. I will wait to see what other thread evidence comes about.

I don't think he's bad because he's disagreeing with MP. I think he's bad because he's twisting words and (I believe intentionally) misinterpreting what MP is saying. I thought I stated this before pretty clearly.

Hopefully that answers your questions.

I'm lost in linki quotes here - you are referring to llama here right?

thellama73 wrote:Fair enough, SVS.

I do want to say that I really think having a fresh pair of eyes on this game is useful and I am taking your comments so far very seriously. Thanks for that.

MP, the reason I voted for you so early is that you have made it clear that you will not rest until one of us is dead. I don't want it to be me. I leave it to other people to decide what they think of the discussion and who they want to believe. I'm not helping the civvie cause? Neither are you, with your llama blinders on.

llama - is your concern about MP only that he has susspected you so long and so hard for what you feel to be weak reasons? I will ask you the same question I asked MP - explain your case on him to me like I'm a 3 year old.

S~V~S wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
S~V~S wrote: OK, even I knew this was sarcastic, lol.

@Llama, the orange is your friend lol
It took me years to agree to use smileys. I'm certainly not going to use colors now.

Nothing spoils a good joke like a tag that says "THIS IS A JOKE. ISN'T IT FUNNY?"
Nothing gets you lynched like philistines who don't recognize sarcasm when they see it. If this was clever dinner party conversation, i would agree with you 1 zillion percent, but it isn't. It's Mafia.

So if you keep getting lynched becasue no one understands your humor, don't come crying to SVS, ya hear me, bucko??!?

That said, I never really learned to use the orange either. But had I understood your sarcasm in Into the Woods, i would have backed way the hell off. And speaking of which, MP is scaring the bejeezus out of me, lol, he's kinda got his manic on.

he really does. And yes - I agree with all you tole llama up there.

thellama73 wrote:
S~V~S wrote: OK, even I knew this was sarcastic, lol.

@Llama, the orange is your friend lol
It took me years to agree to use smileys. I'm certainly not going to use colors now.

Nothing spoils a good joke like a tag that says "THIS IS A JOKE. ISN'T IT FUNNY?"

correctly communicating your thoughts is no laughing matter. see wot I did dere?

S~V~S wrote:
Dom wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Dom wrote: MP, I think you're spot on with Llama. He's been extra dismissive.
Nah, I haven't. Let's move on, shall we?
Case and point.
OK, even I knew this was sarcastic, lol.

@Llama, the orange is your friend lol

MovingPictures07 wrote:Same question to ALL of you. No more free passes. I want opinions, dammit!
Shouldn't this be in Hyperbole Italics? I can see you pounding your fist onto the desk as punctuation as you type this, lol.

Linki @ MP, I don't think either of them is bad, at least not based on their posts.

I agree with svs here. I still don't quite understand why you think llama is bad (again please explain it to me like I'm a 3 year old and I've seen nothing from BDH that would make me think he's bad. He just seems very much like a new player who has some inate skill at it - going after what he thinks is the best option. Why is he wrong MP?

S~V~S wrote:
BigDamnHero wrote:My main suspicion still lies with Moving Pictures and the following post he made makes it even worse for him in my eyes:

MovingPictures07 wrote:When he could have seriously considered he would be the one to die. Now, ask yourself, if Devin were Crackotage, and you were in his shoes, would you use your lynch stop, especially if you had two? Damn sure I know I would.

It's even possible that Devin is Homsar and knew he will never be lynched. It would actually make a lot of sense given that he is playing a wacky game and posting a ton. Think about it: he is not exactly trying to draw attention to himself, but he seems to think it is harmless.

On the flipside, it is also possible Devin is Cheerleader. But for Devin to be Homsar and Cheerleader, there had to be at least some level of vote manipulation taking place here. The only way that could happen would be the civvie role that has two votes cast his or her second vote for Devin OR one of the secrets. Therefore, those possibilities are less likely.

I think the most plausible explanations for what happened on Day 2 are either of the following:
- Devin decided to stop the lynch, fearing he would die, even though by the end of the period he did not have the most votes.
- llama is Homesar or the Cheerleader. However, his behavior does not seem to match either of these, so if I had to guess, definitely I would say the Cheerleader. Also, I still believe him to be bad, perhaps even more so now, but more on that later.

There are many possibilities, in fact, but I believe both of those to be the most likely.
He started off the game worrying about the TINIEST chance that a civilian role would be compromised during the "Day 1 info" discussions, and now he's basically throwing out players names and the civilian roles he believes them to be! Yes, he gives potential other baddie options, but his entire ideology/strategy seems to be going back and forth and all over the place.
Nice to meet you Hero, you make sense to me. Certain things should not be discussed in the thread; saying "There are civvie reasons for survival" should be enough. I am sure the baddies read the roles, they don't need the civvies pointing things out for them, lol. This is the kind of thing you post in your baddie chatroom, trying to figure out who is who. You don't post it in the thread. But then, MP & I never see eye to eye (although i am old enough to be his Mom, he reminds me of my Dad, the Libertairian Accountant, and I tend to relate to him that way). I have to go back and read his wall'o'texts to have a serious opinion on him.

I just walked in the door, I have to do some stuff, then I will get back in here. But a quick "I have been thinking about this all afternoon at Target & Stop & Shop" post~

At this point, I have my strongest bad feelings about Hedgeowl & Mongoose; if I had to vote this second, it would be for Hedgeowl. In my readback, she dodged a bullet very nicely, and TBH, i don't particularly buy it.

As for the Llama voters, I feel pretty good about BWT, Devin & Snow (or at least not horrible, lol) I am on the fence about Matt, and Waffly, "OMG I DON"T KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE" MP always strikes me as bad. CBK, based on her posts alone, is a bit pingy. I do not know if Daisy cherry picks at all, but I know I would very likely put my fairly noobish sister in BTS with my boyfriend in a heartbeat. Who would take better care of her?

BUT...BUT...BUT...

I don't base decisions on stuff like that, its just a bit of info to process. But the whole "CBK hasn't even posted once", then there she is thing was a bit odd.

@Mata, I tend to distrust Bea quite often. I distrust her here. My opinion on her, IMO, is not all that valuable. Just like DH always thinks I am bad, I always think Bea is bad. So anything I have to say about her, keep that in mind.

But yeah, I have to finish my catch up, but then I plan to reread Hedgie.

I feel like I have to address your CBK concerns. Avant was her first game. She was my baddie teammate. We have no bts in this game, but as well you know me she is forever my puppy. (CBK - this is NOT a bad thing.) In her first game, her disabilities came out bts. And we all had very long talks about them. I was in favor of making her sight issues public because it does affect how people will read her. I'm happy to see that in this game CBK had followed my advice. IDK if she is civ or bad this game. But I know how hard it is for her to actually play the game. And the very fact that she keeps wanting to makes me all kinda proud of her.

Devin the Omniscient wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Devin the Omniscient wrote:Well, I'll be back after I've been lynched. Laters!
When he could have seriously considered he would be the one to die. Now, ask yourself, if Devin were Crackotage, and you were in his shoes, would you use your lynch stop, especially if you had two? Damn sure I know I would.

It's even possible that Devin is Homsar and knew he will never be lynched. It would actually make a lot of sense given that he is playing a wacky game and posting a ton. Think about it: he is not exactly trying to draw attention to himself, but he seems to think it is harmless.

On the flipside, it is also possible Devin is Cheerleader. But for Devin to be Homsar and Cheerleader, there had to be at least some level of vote manipulation taking place here. The only way that could happen would be the civvie role that has two votes cast his or her second vote for Devin OR one of the secrets. Therefore, those possibilities are less likely.

I think the most plausible explanations for what happened on Day 2 are either of the following:
- Devin decided to stop the lynch, fearing he would die, even though by the end of the period he did not have the most votes.
- llama is Homesar or the Cheerleader. However, his behavior does not seem to match either of these, so if I had to guess, definitely I would say the Cheerleader. Also, I still believe him to be bad, perhaps even more so now, but more on that later.

There are many possibilities, in fact, but I believe both of those to be the most likely.
No, I would have actually died. I just didn't care. I still don't tbh. But if you try to lynch me today, it will not work. Just trust me. I have only lied once during this entire game. It would be a waste of time to try and lynch me today, so just try again tomorrow.

I will say this, though. I wouldn't be surprised that the reason we didn't see a NK from TGS is that they tried to kill me and failed.

Now, discuss

What makes you so sure you were their target?

Maybe they targeted someone else who was protected?

One of the things I've learned is that no matter WHAT my role is - I don't know half of what I think I know at any given time.

I'm sure all of this is explained a few more posts ahead - just trying to post my thoughts as I'm having them and reading the 3 page wall of text.

A Person wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
A Person wrote:
thellama73 wrote:It wouldn't matter if your teammates lie to you, as long as you sent a PM. Your explanations make increasingly little since.
Sense when? I just think you have roughly the same chance of dying with the hut thing and just randomly choosing someone to die.
Yes, you have roughly the same chance with the hut thing and randomly choosing someone to die, but only if everyone agrees to your method. If anyone defects, their odds increase and yours decrease. It would be good strategy for a team to say "let's all send in our pms, and then convince other people not to. It would increase the odds for that team surviving considerably if they could get people to fall for it. Whether you then decided to lie to your team about what you actually did would make no difference.
ture, I just meant without doing the hut thing at all. Or randomly assigning huts. Without the vote being public there's no incentive to talk about it or strategize, it's just random. Unless someone were to be able to convince people to act a certain way like you said I could be, but people obviously know they'd be putting themselves in danger. It also wouldn't make sense if i was trogdor, because I'd highly doubt there is any one hut that's completely empty, and from the way I understand it, any kill is good for him.
Matahari wrote:
A Person wrote:
thellama73 wrote:It wouldn't matter if your teammates lie to you, as long as you sent a PM. Your explanations make increasingly little since.
Sense when? I just think you have roughly the same chance of dying with the hut thing and just randomly choosing someone to die.
Scents my sniffer is detecting something foul here. Isn't everything chosen very randomly? How could anyone predict anything?
There's no real way, but if the vote were public again, you could actively choose to bunch together or spread apart.

Matt - honestly, at this point, I'm having a hard time understanding why we are talking about Trogar and the huts when we are in a day phase and should be trying to find baddies. I get that Trogar is a threat, but as you say right up there - it's pretty random and not at all easy to beat. This all feels like conversation for the sake of conversation. Matt - who do you suspect for your vote this lynch and why? This is the conversation we need to be having tbh.

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