The Syndicate

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:36 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:35 pm i realize i forgot to mention axe but he was clearly town
Irritatingly so.
You have good reads btw. Wp

lol thanks but i barely played or tried to communicate them in any meaningful manner so it doesn't really matter that much

sorry :V

i realize i forgot to mention axe but he was clearly town

gg all

oh right eod's not at 4 lol

yeah that works too lmao

meh

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:51 pm Top 3 scumreads Lu? Right now in this moment of indecision

wanna toss out something like mac/nook/tsp tbh and i know i just read the post that said those names in that order but. if i rule out dizzy and i rule out you which i shouldn't necessarily but you put in a lot of oomph in a good way the other day and maybe i'm somewhat pocketed but i don't really care at this point and i subtract luck who's seemed fairly genuine and like actually ok after my quibbles d1 i'm left with that and i think it fits because i kinda remember mac soft defending nook but i don't remember who else really and nook has been genuinely terrible and legitimately super wolfy all game and tsp can be a wolf question mark

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:44 pm Awake now and I'm hating my indecision over this day

something something everyone except dizzy and me who's been probably the most consistently suspicious of/pushing on dizzy throughout voting dizzy right now

something something huh

i haven't read enough to be able to answer that question in good faith

very little impression about tsp apart from him not existing start of game, doing catchup random question walls d2, and being softly defended by others at some points? or at least adjacent vibes

i'm going to do errands first because otherwise they're not gonna happen and i already completely blanked on that yesterday so no promises on how much i'll be able to deliver but it'll give good time pressure and hopefully i can at least take a look over some things

i guess i'll vote mac just in case for now because i honestly really see very few worlds in which wolves are like sure let's dumpster a teammate today ez gg no re if mac's v lol just because of how much pressure mac has gotten so far, ie probably one of the few people likely to actually go over with enough pressure today and i'm sure they've done enough distancing that they're not worried about all dying if one does wolves would rather win quickly if they can

so i think even if somehow dizzy is v mac just has higher mafia%

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:27 pm Are you asking me why not chop Mac? Cause I would take a chance on Mac simply cause he could be in most teams I could see

i'm saying given that it's lylo and he's going in strongly on you i was wondering why that doesn't ~confirm him as wolf to you to some degree

again no maj so it's not a lock but just curious what your perspective is there

ie why hasn't that been your focus today

is it just because no maj

probably

Dizzy, why weren't you pushing back against Mac at SoD in lylo here?

My initial level 0 take is "wolves have been under basically zero pressure the entire game and Dizzy just feels like a perfect setup after Alison yeet which feels like a perfect setup after boknows which felt like whatever after the inanely railroaded Alison/DoO d1", and I think it feels more likely that they're just doing the omega coast, esp since Dizzy has been kinda off to the side (he does distance, but basically everyone else has gelled in terms of trajectory and what they're trying to do in thread more than him) and capitalizing on the way things have been going so far, since literally nobody has really done much of anything against a Dizzy kill since maybe d2 at best apart from trying to kill Alison first, which as discussed was dubious. I understand that it's the counterwagon, but I also think mafia has had a ludicrous amount of thread control relative to town this game, and people are underestimating that. I will look into this and confirm against Dizzy's posts and how other people handle them, but I'm probably just going to solve from this perspective in the time I have this phase because I want to feel like I tried even if it's probably to late to affect meaningful change and I think this is both far more likely than Dizzy!w and I think we kinda need to consider this perspective more than anything going into three straight lylos if we have any chance of winning.

five people voting dizzy is

uh

how do you say "not comforting" in a language that isn't english

i don't think dizzy's chances of pulling off a thunderdome vs mac or anyone today are /that/ dismal?

god

ok

i promise i'll come back and do some reading

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:32 pm Also, additional reason I feel Lu is just scum here is that every time I’ve brought up what I think are legitimate points, nobody has cared. Energy flows away from that. Energy flows towards Dizzy scum (or Alison/Dizzy) and yes, I realize this is partly my fault, but that’s a pretty glaring sign imo

yes well this has happened with literally any read on anyone except for like four slots this entire game so

you're not alone in feeling like you're screaming into the void, regardless of alignment

wait is there not maj here?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:29 am If dizzy flips town, it will just emphasize that we should have killed Alison on D1.

or, you know, we could have just not

but here we are

think finger's been pretty villagery and also feel like there aren't enough wolves but i'm not sure who's accidentally hard-shielding whom

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:38 am
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:01 pmi kinda liked belzy's d1 but i think bo's today has been pretty terrible particularly wrt their handling of the alison slot and i feel like there's a solid chance mafia are just being like oh! but everyone said belzy made good posts d1! let's ignore bo and use that as a reason to keep v-reading our partner
I know it's after the fact, but did you have an opinion on which potential mafia where doing this?

don't remember who, but it was a subset of people that i didn't think were terribly villagery and felt like they were ignoring bo's d2 in the light of weird deterministic alison machinations

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:18 am @Lu Ren Is there a reason you haven't said what name I would know you by?

Yes, I don't really want to. If this game went differently and it made me want to dive in and get my hands dirty maybe, but I prefer the anonymity in terms of not feeling like I have to contribute more than I want and feel responsible to just being a random person here as of right now.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:59 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:22 pm
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:49 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:41 pm Hello, sorry I'm late!
Hello Lu!

Take a read through and give me a weak read.
Sorry, you'll have to settle for strong reads.

Omega and Alison are both just town because of their posts before/at the start of the argument. Omega posted about feeling differently as mafia vs town, saying that she feels a lot more pressured and nervous as mafia, and then immediately said "I might be struggling to engage this game". I think both of those posts could easily be made by mafia, but the progression is much more likely town. Her perspective is just pretty genuine, and that shows up in the way she reacts to Alison. For Alison, I think she's a very zealous player and is probably pretty aggressive even as mafia, but I don't think she'd pick the things she picked here to seize on, and the very quick and convinced conf-bias she went into that with felt organic and more intense than I think she'd be likely to do as mafia in that situation.

Axe is probably also town, not a ton to say here apart from shrugging my shoulder towards the votecount. I think the biggest thing I liked from him was how he reacted to the way people engaged with how he stepped into the argument when everyone else was standing back. Didn't feel like he was trying to get anything extra out of it either at the time or afterwards.

Falcon's entry post was so level 0 mafia that I'm tempted to just say burn it with fire, but I don't remember any of their other posts so I'm not going to commit here yet. The "what happened who can I sheep" at the particular point at which they entered made me cringe.

Luckbox just seems like mafia? The "haha I'm so pure nvm just taking the piss" probing, but especially the "axehole can be a wolf, voting him" is just the laziest and worst approach in the world and not in a towny way at all given thread momentum. He combined that take with saying "I was going to have Seanzie as a maybe, but he can be town sure" and it just feels very arbitrary and like there aren't actual thoughts behind any of what he's saying.

I don't know how to vote, apart from the poll.
ender called this lock town but I think it's kinda wolfy tbh

no u

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:38 pm it's pretty obvious that you were pinned in such a way that you had no choice but to come out guns blazing at me but you are transparently obvious wolf and will die today so get your shit in

this is not very towny

anyway i voted bo

would infinitely prefer to alison

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:53 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:43 pm I would vote BoKnows today actually, I think that's a good target

@MacDougall @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME @falcon45ca @Luckbox Inc @Seanzie @Dyslexicon @Alison @Lu Ren

You are the players I would expect to vote there.
BK hasn't done anything scummy IMO, feels like a shot in the dark at this stage of the game

i kinda liked belzy's d1 but i think bo's today has been pretty terrible particularly wrt their handling of the alison slot and i feel like there's a solid chance mafia are just being like oh! but everyone said belzy made good posts d1! let's ignore bo and use that as a reason to keep v-reading our partner

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:41 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:23 pm if y'all actually kill alison i have no words

she was obviously town d1 and she's even more obviously town right now
Is this an emotional thing? I asked you before, and I don't know how to phrase the question I want to ask, but it would help a lot if you maybe could quote exactly where you think Alison is outside wolf range.

huh? no it's

it's from how doo was posting and like the vibes she was putting into thread and then how alison came in and sorta stabbed them with a pitchfork and then was like hey you're a wolf for these 5 reasons and then doo was like what huh no what and then alison was like and here are fifteen more

and that's how it felt and i don't think alison's a wolf sorry

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:29 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:27 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:26 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:25 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:24 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:23 pm if y'all actually kill alison i have no words

she was obviously town d1 and she's even more obviously town right now
If you've read, I'm not arguing that she's scum.
sure, so let's kill mafia instead
That requires you to not vote Dizzy
yes ok i've explicitly stated the pool of people i'd be fine killing in any thoughts on who you'd prefer?
TSP / BoKnows is our overlap.

I will vote for other people in that if all of my town reads join in, but like, for my reads personally I'd go there.

which are your other personal reads that don't overlap in order of strength?

what did you think of tsp's posting today?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:26 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:25 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:24 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:23 pm if y'all actually kill alison i have no words

she was obviously town d1 and she's even more obviously town right now
If you've read, I'm not arguing that she's scum.
sure, so let's kill mafia instead
That requires you to not vote Dizzy

yes ok i've explicitly stated the pool of people i'd be fine killing in any thoughts on who you'd prefer?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:24 pm I'm just saying, I would kill her over Dizzy and I think it's bad that she's insisting on this stupid tunnel that none of my town reads, except maybe you care about.

yes but insisting on tunnels is hallmark alison gameplay just ignore it and kill mafia and don't kill her just because you don't agree with her reads

she's town, hard clear her, move on, let wolves kill her later, convince other town members about who you think mafia is and then eliminate them and then win the game

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:24 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:23 pm if y'all actually kill alison i have no words

she was obviously town d1 and she's even more obviously town right now
If you've read, I'm not arguing that she's scum.

sure, so let's kill mafia instead

i don't get why people are approaching everything like an association right now? it's why we're in this situation in the first place?

flip a wolf and then figure out associations, alison definitely isn't a wolf because doo and saying if alison flips one alignment or another it specifically singles out exactly three people or saying that we shouldn't kill the wolfiest people because then we would Have to kill someone else just to make us feel better ignores the fact that we have brains and we can use them and we can find town if we actually try

if y'all actually kill alison i have no words

she was obviously town d1 and she's even more obviously town right now

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:45 am Disgruntled current state:

Probably Town:
Lu Ren
Seanzie
Belzy/BoKnows

Soft town:
NotAnAxehole
Luckbox Inc
falcon45ca

Debating on my read:
TonyStarkPrime
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Light Scum:
fingersplints
Grogu/Syn/Mac

Scum:
Dyslexicon or Alison
EnderWiggin

i almost got upset at you for putting ender in the bottom tier and then i realized you were ender

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:14 pm seanzie has been openwolfing i think

Yes, I don't really want to commit but Luck's been trending up and Sean's not looking great.

Do you think Nanook's response to my vote there-- basically building the reason I want to kill him into something it's not and then saying it's not actually a thing at all anyway is alignment indicative? I could understand "no i'm just being lazy and doing my thing that's a bad push" but I felt like the lengths to which he went to thinly strawman and then demolish my push (rather than engaging with the substance of my actual read i.e. that he's blatantly wolfsiding regardless of alignment and that he can do better as town, even if I don't expect him to, and it seems like he's using excuse to tether vote to a blatantly non-consensus short-temper villager, plus his reads have seemed generally tmi-y) don't give me a lot of hope in that regard.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:04 pm "You're barely playing" reads are pretty meh from someone with a dozen fewer posts lol

Your "I'm making meaningful and towny contributions to the game" take is pretty meh from someone who's not doing that.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:02 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:57 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:56 pm I don't actually care if they know me or not they just made a read thats weird to make if they don't know me lol

Although tbf its also a bad read if they do know me, so
it's literally not a read it's "you're barely playing and everything you've done is wolf-sided so i would feel exactly 0 bad for miseliminating you"
I've posted more than you lol

your point being?

if it's a helpful comparison, this is a disrespect read :P

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:56 pm I don't actually care if they know me or not they just made a read thats weird to make if they don't know me lol

Although tbf its also a bad read if they do know me, so

it's literally not a read it's "you're barely playing and everything you've done is wolf-sided so i would feel exactly 0 bad for miseliminating you"

atm i'm looking at something like 3 of [tsp/nanook/dizzy/sean/luck/bo]

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:24 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:14 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:04 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:03 pm ok

can we not
I was hoping you'd end up here.
what, feeling condescended towards and disincentivized to post?
I honestly didn't know that was what you were going for. I still don't see it upon re-read.

sorry, i should add for context that i'm not in the best of headspaces right now so my fuel tank is fairly low in terms of actually sitting down and working through stuff and i've been getting a bit frustrated at things/people in the game but not actually been doing much to help or communicate or do anything about the things that bother me, which is unfair

to be clear, when i say it's a read out of respect i'm saying that i think the specific progression, if you look at where it's coming from and what doo posted right before and what alison seized on, is >>rand v, not that in big strokes it couldn't be mafia but it just. my point is that i respect alison enough as a person that i don't think they would make that particular push at that particular time, not that i think they couldn't or that i think their case was good or that their reads are amazing or whatever

i'm sure she's an excellent wolf, i'm just not going to entertain a world in which she is and does what she did at the start of this game for the sake of my own sanity

i feel frustrated at the moment because when i tried to express this you didn't try to engage at all with what i was saying

and it's possible that's because i didn't express myself clearly and you thought i was saying something different or because we have different presuppositions about alison and the way she plays the game of mafia or because what i focused on when i read that interaction d1 was very different than what you focused on

but either way, i'd appreciate it if we could have this conversation in words, posting reads and trying to communicate what i've been saying this entire game and just getting "kek" in return makes me just not want to post at all

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:04 pm
Lu Ren wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:03 pm ok

can we not
I was hoping you'd end up here.

what, feeling condescended towards and disincentivized to post?

ok

can we not

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:51 am I don't even mind killing a player other than Alison, but like, more people are defending Alison than any other player in the game.

D1 Alison stated how 3 additional votes going her way was the scum play to save scum!DOO.

At what point does town!Alison realize that she's being played by the mafia team? I mean, it just seems so unreasonable to me that so many people town read a player that they consider to be "good" when she hasn't done anything towny... Like sorry, the two items are incompatible.

Alternatively, she's just mafia... People defending her can just claim now if the game is lost and I'll take her as town for the rest of the game and return to my theory that the game is either won or lost when the roles are handed out.

or she's just incredibly obstinate which should have been obvious exactly two posts into the game and doubled down because of her personality and because nobody did anything except either say yes i agree with you or you're a wolf the entire phase

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:53 pm My god, Alison is getting a lot of heavy disrespect reads.

it's a respect read from my part.

BoKnows wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:38 am I already feel like Alison needs to die to progress this game.

this is silly

we can read

other people have posts

all you're saying is "how about we kill the only other person everybody actually has a read on so that we waste another day focusing on a villager who we kill instead of actually sorting the rest of the game"

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:06 am Actually, does my read on Alison seem "bad" to everyone? What is "uninspiring" about it, or my play in general (a word I've seen been used, which in turn makes me very uninspired about this game. Not saying you can't use it, just saying how I feel.)

I didn't even have that strong of a read on D1, I just got bad vibes. Alison doubling down because my read is "bad" and saying I've said stuff which I absolutely haven't makes her just look worse to me.

Ideally, I'll give a fuck enough to actually read the game and get a solve that is not all about Alison. Probably maybe will.

my read on alison is entirely "is alison the sort of person to push on that angle at that time on doo d1 as mafia and double down about basically nothing there?"

and the answer is "sure as hell hope not and regardless of my hopes probably not mafia don't make reads like she did there"

so if you don't want to get eliminated help us kill nook or someone like that

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:01 am What'd you find particularly wolfy about nook? He's in my POE for gamestate reasons, but his posts have not been super standout wolfy to me.

being boring and anchoring his reads to someone who's probably town but is being scumread by a lot of people and doesn't have good reads, has basically been the opposite of mac for someone with the same sort of playstyle where mac is townsiding very hard nook is mafiasiding very hard

it's yawn it perpetuates the unhealthy general tendencies in the town and there's nothing good about it whatsoever and he should know better

alison/doo

it was terrible and nobody was doing anything about it except like axe for a minute

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:24 am Wanna vote dizzy with me luren?

sure, i'm ok with that, but i think nanook's been more overtly scummy

[VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine

I'm pretty confident Mac is town here, unless Alison is both a villager and like as incorrect as possible on her reads; his approach is just the most townsided thing anyone in this game has done this entire time and it's an unexpected breath of fresh air.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:29 am I read Alison's ISO in the night and thought she was definitely inside of her wolfrange. The way that she was making reads on day 1 was unusual for her. She entered the thread immediately trying to construct things and took no time for her usual reaction tests and analysis. At minimum she is trying different strategy. I am not opposed to votes on her, but mischopping her is game losing so I am cautious.

Seanzie you seem like an inno child.

i don't deny that her pushes were bad or didn't make sense, but i really don't think she'd pick those reasons to push a villager on

that's the beginning and the end of it

let's kill other people, such as the people encouraging that dichotomy yesterday

pretty sure esooa was a doc dodge tbh

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