The Syndicate

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:00 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:00 pm Nutella is not a wolf and one of the few sane posters in the thread, GL to her in the days to come
ty gl

I tried homeslice. Ultimately town is gonna get what they put into this game.

Nutella is not a wolf and one of the few sane posters in the thread, GL to her in the days to come

[VOTE: Vivax] aubergine

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:43 pm i can't find the vcs who are the wagons

Wilgy, Vivax, you

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:40 pm why u voting me

honestly go ahead

You a real player?

[VOTE: Lilypetal] aubergine

*than wilgy

Nut wanted Neon, we could do that too. Or Lilypetal. Less real player equity than Lilypetal but so it goes.

Vivax is wolfy, Santy wants to go there, got tired of people complaining about me pushing Wilgy.

[VOTE: Vivax] aubergine

aight bet.

I think 2 hours? idk though

katze, given everything you've seen here: who wolf?

Also not to give away the game here but my vote may not end up on Wilgy. We got a lot of good content though.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 6:44 pm I don't get why you bring that game, is not even a town win...

That's the point. The last wolf was Chilly and he literally stopped posting. Town should've voted out "Chilly (0)" and instead tied themselves in knots because "we don't want to just policy a 0 poster" and let him live all the way to the end and lost. It was as simple as that.

... You're Bladescape!

I did not know this. Apologies for the trauma then :P

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 6:16 pm Ran, bringing up that game hurts me.

Were you involved with it? I don't recall seeing you around, maybe another nickname?

Manny wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 5:32 pm I have the opposite POV to Ranmilia i've seen town lose a bunch of games due to policy lynches zzz.

As to this though

Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 5:33 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:43 pm "They post no content as town" is not a defense to me; that just makes me feel better about yeeting them if they're town. Yeeting everyone who posts no content and doesn't help town is generally a winning strategy and one of the cornerstones of how I play.

I am not sure what about Wilgy's point would be "valid." Interacting with wolves is not good, unless you think you have a clever bait to get them to spew more wolves. Usually people do not like it much when I interact with people I am scumreading, because that interaction consists of calling them a wolf and saying they should be voted out. If you'd prefer a different target, I'm going to need reasons - better ones than "they post no content as town" and a wolfier target.
If all you do when you interact with people you're scumreading is call them a wolf and saying they should be voted out, that is of course generally not... mmm... how to say... well, my point is that of course nobody likes it. It doesnt provide dialog or the opportunity for the person being scumread to change your mind.

Additionally, by your logic, any low poster is wolfy right now. So any of them could be considered a wolfy target, and yet we are still sitting ass on wilgy. What do you hope to get out of it? (Your answer is "a wolf, obviously, you stupid idiot porscha" but I'd like to know where the line is being drawn on why you insist on focusing on wilgy when you could also be making cases on the other people youd be willing to vote and seeing reactions to those instead of sitting on wagon not achieving much by way of player reaction testing, vote reaction, etc...)

Because staying on a target consistently A. produces more useful reactions and content and B. is much more likely to follow through and kill them if they are actually a wolf. People's jimmies are rustled, people are posting takes and getting serious about whether they're pro wilgy or anti wilgy. Jumping around between a bunch of cases in my experience diffuses player attention and lets wolves slip by treating it as "just another rando case that will pass by in a few hours." I have the opposite take on how this has turned out, I think sitting on Wilgy has generated a great amount of valuable content and reactions and achieved quite a lot of value, whereas hopping around would not have.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 5:31 pm Simply because i consider his posts pretty good

I already said when I found good posts from him.

Pushing just Wilgy means we don't look at the others.

Then we are in accord and I encourage you to keep on keepin on.

(for the record the behavior of some of those SCI policies definitely hardened my heart coming into this game. I don't have time or energy to waste trying to work through whether someone who posts "fart" five times is town or mafia, just kill them, if too many town act that way then town will lose and deservedly so. But usually it is wolves who act that way.)

Naw. Policy wins games. Gotta hold people to some standard. If you reward people for having an antitown meta, that just makes them more likely to be antitown in future games and makes it harder to sort them when they are actually a wolf.

Check SCI which I linked a bit ago, we spent the first three days policying people who all flipped town, then destroyed the wolves when they had no one to hide behind. (This is not a completely accurate summary of the game, but the policy part worked out).

The better question is - why NOT Wilgy? There certainly are other good votes, but why is the Wilgy push getting so much resistance?

Oh yeah. They got me dead to rights when I crossed out dead players on a reposted VC.

Only one deleter has been used, unless there was a crosskill. I find it highly unlikely that there was a crosskill though.

"They post no content as town" is not a defense to me; that just makes me feel better about yeeting them if they're town. Yeeting everyone who posts no content and doesn't help town is generally a winning strategy and one of the cornerstones of how I play.

I am not sure what about Wilgy's point would be "valid." Interacting with wolves is not good, unless you think you have a clever bait to get them to spew more wolves. Usually people do not like it much when I interact with people I am scumreading, because that interaction consists of calling them a wolf and saying they should be voted out. If you'd prefer a different target, I'm going to need reasons - better ones than "they post no content as town" and a wolfier target.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:17 pm lol, Rans been here but still won't interact with me.

Well, here's an illustration: this post is hella wolfy, because it's not a real thought town have when trying to sort out who is mafia and who isn't. This is shade that comes from a mafia perspective of "we need to get Ran off of me and discredit her, how do we do that, let's find something to make her sound bad like 'not interacting with me'".

What does that mean? Why would that be relevant? How does this come from a town thought process? Does Wilgy think I'm a real player? Does Wilgy think I'm a wolf? Is he putting forward some theory like "not interacting with your scumreads is wolfy"? Why? I've already expressed that the main basis for the read is lack of content.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... vitational - here's a recent game where I found Hellsbells, a wolf, on d1, and cased them. Their response was pretty much identical to what Wilgy is doing: OMGUS and accusations that I wasn't working with them.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6310705
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6310787
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6310955

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:17 pm lol, Rans been here but still won't interact with me.

Leaving my vote on you is plenty of interaction

Why Sloonei in particular?

Votes in spoilers don't count, I think that's an actual global rule/custom/etc. Scotty whatcha thinkin though?

@Creature I summon thee. Where's your head at?

My state of mind rn is that I think 2-3 mafia were in Not Voting or various vanity wagons yesterday... no more than 2 between both of the main wagons, and probably only 1. Maybe even 0.

That was actually probably the most important thing happening overnight, DZ NPC is a nice chunk for solving

Manny wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:07 pm its prolly wrong that i think wilgy only has one actual vote rn lmao.
Also if i could decide the lynch in general id prolly yeet Dz, didnt vibe much with the posts i've seen from him so far.

DZ hardclaimed NPC, and I believe it given vote record

santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:01 pm Despite also thinking that Ran wagon is bad, Porscha vote ln Ran was towny , Neon NAI ... And Iaafr I didnt even read it but if they are not Npc they have mafia equity ig

This is cromulent. In combination with other morning posts my read on Santy has upgraded from "taking claim at face value" to "just town."

Lilypetal is a slot I thought about overnight and would suggest as another alternative if people find Wilgy unpalatable... only worried about a higher risk of npc-ness.

If your view of the game is "town shouldn't play until NPCs are gone" then all NPCs are wolfsiding by existing now, since we could ring up Mac and hit the abscond button at any time. Mafia's next nightkill is chosen after the purge so it's incredibly unlikely they're going to whiff real players anymore.

"We should keep trying to hit NPCs today because most real players are town" is tantamount to "we should vote sleep on d1 in a normal game because most players are town." I assume we all have enough basic mafia theory to know why that's a bad idea, yeah? The start of this day was when the clock ticked back over to "town is the beatdown and needs to start playing and voting aggressively."

I'm not sold on the idea that there were scum, or even more than 2 real players, on the Santy wagon, but if you want to vote on there then Vivax is a wagon I can support.

What's up people.

General response to overnights -
- Town need to start playing, and they need to start doing so sooner rather than later. Hiding was only a thing for d1-d2. "I'll only start playing once the NPCs are gone" is losing strats.
- Wolves are hiding in the minposters.
- We should be targeting to vote a real player today, not an NPC.
- Given the above, "why Wilgy" should be self explanatory

Anyway I'm gonna sleep... I do agree that the Neon-lily-porscha group needs to get into things, unfortunately I don't have much in the way of ideas on how to do that other than politely asking or threatening them with a fun wagon ride around town, it's sort of a catch-22 where if people don't want to get involved, they also don't care about attempts to pressure them to get more involved...

We'll see how it goes! If you're town relax and post thoughts! Or copy Marmot posts from old games!

The case on Wilgy is that it appears that the mafia are not following the game very closely, so we're gonna round up all the people posting no content or saying things like "I'll get into this game once the NPCs leave" and put them into the murderblender happy fun time Red Rider rocket wagon!

Also his posts are wolfy.

There are a lot of people who fit the bill though and the bar is not tremendously high, in fact it's currently at "posted literally any content showing they put thought into the game" so if you'd like to not be on the Red Rider Group of Friends - post some content! Any content!

Here are ISOs! You can look at Nutella's and my ISOs for our thoughts on people to focus on today!

Spoiler: show

Come mister tally man

katze wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:37 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:27 pm
katze wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:17 pm if i survive the npc purge and night 3 im prob gonna tunnel my top scumread tomorrow cuz im p sure they've been voted 0 times this game and are exceedingly obviously a wolf imo
whomstve
wouldnt u like to know weathergirl

you don't actually have one, but poking you is fun

katze wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:17 pm if i survive the npc purge and night 3 im prob gonna tunnel my top scumread tomorrow cuz im p sure they've been voted 0 times this game and are exceedingly obviously a wolf imo

whomstve

Geez I might have actually thrown that game by making the team unable to NK Marmot

Anyway

katze wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:01 pm neon michelle prob always contains a wolf

Elaborate

That ISO is a banger btw, I never really looked back at Marmot's d1 after I learned the team, holy moly

Marmot had like 5 scumreads and 4 of them were accurate, he got SPF immediately, me, Master Radishes and Apogee

What a beast

That was only 50 posts?! How do people do this, I feel so spammy, I even funposted as Marmot (courtesy of his CoV ISO)

Script people thank you for your service

Yeah w/e they also closed the thread and stuff

Have I mentioned how much I like the mod on duty system?

Best thing about the Syndicate, other than the people themselves

Marmot was co-host and announced this at the start of the game, could never have been a player. Just wanted into spec chat early I assume.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:54 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:51 pm ... how is that helping wolves
those people are literally flipped
how would
I don't
You are literally doing the wolves work for them by crossing our the not town on the list of town voting for golden how do you not get that?

Have you considered
that town also exists
and may benefit from having information presented to them
and in fact are likely to benefit much more from this than wolves do
because wolves can already coordinate this information privately, but town may have a hard time keeping up with public info
and that the purge occurs at EOD anyway and the wolves next kill will be chosen post-purge, so there is little if any benefit on holding on to NPC/real player reads anymore

... how is that helping wolves
those people are literally flipped
how would
I don't

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:42 pm
Spoiler: show
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:33 pm Do Not Wish To Yeet (no particular order, copying things around from alphabetical list)
---
C4 - no content, claimed NPC and willingness to self-cull, I'll believe it for today
Chelsea - scumread Michelle, wagoned d1, little presence otherwise. Some wolf equity, more NPC equity, not someone I'm interested in today.
Creature - actively playing, can trace his thoughts decently, town in my eyes.
Ender - Taking the claim at face value for today.
Guillo - Pretty obviously NPC and I think the scattered thoughts he's given are protown, but if he's alive tomorrow then sure w/e always oblige a self voter.
Iaafr - Not a wolf.
Ilario - I've vibed with his thoughts. Like that he went straight on Wilgy today before I got in thread.
Jack - Actively playing, has some wolf equity but no desire to vote here today.
Katze - Semi actively playing. I've liked their thoughts. Don't see a reason to push.
Jjj - 0 content minposter, presumed NPC, probably doesn't make those kills. KILL HIM IMMEDIATELY IF HE'S ALIVE ON DAY 8 though.
Lumi - claimed NPC, made a vote script, good enough for now.
Manny - See Guillo but is less loud about the self vote.
Marmot - is cohost.
Nanook - Doesn't make those kills and lurk with 0 content, in my eyes. Revisit if he's alive lategame.
Nutella - Semi actively playing, don't see a reason to push.
Ranmilia - Anata no, terebi ni, Jika-netto Ranmilia! Mi-n-na no, yoku no tomo~!
Santy - Taking claim and townyness at face value for today, given Manny's retraction and his increased presence.
Scotty - Still townread this given events and eod positioning and knowledge of my own alignment, will take the L if wrong. Maybe I should say I scumread him to reverse psychology people into defending him.
Silverkeith - is sheeping me, which is the right and good move for town to win
Sloonei - see JJJ but with more protown equity. Still kill if alive on day 8.

:fryeyes: Zone
---
DeZees - hasn't done much. I don't have much of a read here, looking at others to weigh in.
Dyslexicon - Some concern, didn't seem very horny. Don't think I want to go here today though.
G-Man - Near 0 content, but created an ISO list which earns him survival for now.
Hally - Pretty obviously NPC but if they're not... well, our playstyles don't mesh well and I haven't liked their takes. Not a push for today though.
Vivax - Evasively low content, wouldn't hate pushing here. Does seem to be playing the game though.

Would Vote Zone
---
Falcon - 0 content minposter. Shrugze.
Inawy - Showed up yesterday and then didn't take up my offer to participate at all, no objections to pushing here.
Lilypetal - 0 content, claimed wolf, on the shortlist for slots I want to kill.
Porscha - Very little content. In the recent MU Hydra Game 3 I was able to easily find the lilypetal/porscha hydra as town by mid day 1 from spec chat, even though the thread consensus wolfread them. In this game I do not find much townyness in either of them. Hence they make my to-kill list.
DrWilg - Fits the top profile of what I'm looking for as a wolf
Michelle - Several people I trust as decent players, including two dead (though fairly quiet NPCs) have called her wolf. She started playing more yesterday but I'm not particularly sold. I don't enjoy people getting mad though so I don't plan to actively push there today.
Neon - No real content. Vibes more NPC to me but no objections to voting here.
Pyxyy - 0 content minposter. No objections to yeeting.
Ricochet - 0 content minposter. No objections to yeeting. The "voted Sloonei" shield has expired with the revelation that mafia can't find real players.
Seanzie - 0 content minposter, tutuu died actively scumreading, #respectthedead
Schiavetto - 0 content, wolfy poppins, eminently yeetable
Sprityo - 0 content minposter, the "voted Radishes" shield is mostly expired

Am I blind or not in this list?

Spoiler: show

iaafr wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:38 pm deezees/vivax/ricochet/sloonei

the dream team

d2 end:
santygrass (6): Guillotine (48), Vivax (26), pyxxy (7), EnderWiggin (67), DeeZees (25), Creature (46)
hollowkatt (6): santygrass (59), Jackofhearts2005 (46), Ranmilia (96), Dyslexicon (46), tutuu (66), DrWilgy (16)

not sure vivax + deezees works with this

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