The Syndicate

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:38 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:36 pm It's not that nobody stepped up to be a leader

its more rather nobody was able to become a leader because someone else disagreed

like I'm fairly sure I had 2 completely unreasonable (fmpov) scum-reads on me on D2
Guilty as charged. Sorry Martin. For my defense, I thought there was two wolves in Seanzie/LoMo/Martin so it was hard for me to get you off my PoE, until Axe came along.

Nah I'm not mad at you at all Gulio. I mean, maybe you can learn from this, but from what I know of you (aka being crazy lol), you scum-reading me was not surprising.

In fact I gave a really sudden town-read on you early D1. If anything I thought you were incredibly fearful of me being pockety lol

It's not that nobody stepped up to be a leader

its more rather nobody was able to become a leader because someone else disagreed

like I'm fairly sure I had 2 completely unreasonable (fmpov) scum-reads on me on D2

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:34 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:21 pm I think really what town needed this game was a leader. Ender could have played the role if they survived, but someone needed to coordinate town pushes, stop the early hammer D2, boost morale D2 and D3, and keep claiming/softing in check, but no one stepped up to that role.
Uhhhh

I'm preety sure I tried stepping up to that role at some point

Or at least in my own way.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:21 pm I think really what town needed this game was a leader. Ender could have played the role if they survived, but someone needed to coordinate town pushes, stop the early hammer D2, boost morale D2 and D3, and keep claiming/softing in check, but no one stepped up to that role.

Uhhhh

I'm preety sure I tried stepping up to that role at some point

idk what you all are on about the soup kill, it was warned and so it happened. But I would imagine if there hypothetically was a new player who didn't know what a soup kill was, there probably should be some sort of clarification of what that soup-kill was and/or its extent. Other than that, I had no problems with the mechanic.

One of my personal issues with the game is that I feel the game/town wouldn't let me kill !mafia LoMo for his actions during the event, and I feel like some parts of the game inhibited my scum-hunting and focus.

And because of that, I didn't really learn anything nor feel like I will improve in any way from the game other than to more actively consider such distractions and (if its just unnecessary like toxicity) consider just leaving the game or contacting the MoD's myself (if applicable) if I encounter it in the future. If I don't feel like I could learn or improve from a game, then I hardly can feel fun if I'm trying to give it all at times. Especially since this was my first town game after three back-to-back wolf rands. This? it was a massive disappointment to me for what I (admittedly, half-my-problem) put my hopes really high up for.

I'm not going to start pointing fingers at anyone though.

Thanks to @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME I guess though. This game had good potential. For me, it just didn't go that way.

I can't really put it into words. And it wasn't just the one thing w/ toxicity.

I'm just not satisfied with this game.

Not at all.

.........And while I could dump my grievances here (which won't fix or help anything), I'm just not going to do that.

I also had a few compliments to give out, but that may just end up giving my grievances (where-ever they may be) away.

See ya. I guess. Better for me that it was ended now than later.

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I'm out for the rest of this phase.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:22 pm honestly [VOTE: Axe] aubergine

I just don't care about this anymore. You can call it whatever meta you like and whatever insults you have about this me, this game, or whatever the fuck else you have to say.

And I'm not going to give you the dignity of saying anything else.

You've obviously been enjoying this otherwise you've would've stopped long ago.

honestly [VOTE: Axe] aubergine

I just don't care about this anymore. You can call it whatever meta you like and whatever insults you have about this me, this game, or whatever the fuck else you have to say.

reading the past 3 pages has been the most draining 10 minutes of my life

@Seanzie take on grogu?

Haven't seen you mention them once.

*votes guilo*

[some time passes]

*votes Long Con*

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:08 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:50 pm
Axe is 100% town. Trust me

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:32 pm The current wagon is a bit strong for Grogu to be mafia I think. I was thinking if Grogu is mafia, it would become very hard to kill him over me, yet here we are.

If you want my honest opinion I don't think you were ever getting deleted today.

It was going to be an episode like me yelling at Lost Moneky over the event. People were just going to yell at you and then get back to doing their things. If they didn't, they may have been a wolf.

Felicis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:31 pm I have a history of doing this as town. Outing a secret plan, I mean (seanzie can attest) and it's never intentional. I'm genuinely curious and I genuinely get confused and I spew where I shouldn't.

Martin, I appreciate knowing that a fake claim like that is not necessarily AI for Guillo. I think I believe that he may be town who wanted to protect the vig, that or 3p if we've got it.

I really was just trying to give town something concrete to work with and the only concrete thing I have is who I am.

Well, I don't think what you did was a bad idea tbh.

That same night I was thinking on how 5 town-kills (1 due to mod) really showed that we needed to flip things upside down. If I were a vig, I probably would've shot someone like Mac anyways just out of spite for the situation. Even if I hadn't hinted it. So I was completely relieved to see someone (not me) do that.

Because getting wrecked like that is only possible either due to sheer mass incompetence or having a powerful deep-wolf or two in the town.

Felicis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:07 pm Hi I've also finally decided to come clean. Maybe this is a shit idea and I'll die for it I don't know, but after the Axe fiasco I think town deserves as much accurate information as possible right now, especially with 7 of us down.

So, here goes:

I really hope that gif formatted properly, but if not;

Hello, Zuko here.

I avenged KZA/Mai and killed Mac/Azula N1. For my honour and the honour of the Town. I didn't counterclaim D2 because when Guillo claimed the kill, I was confused and wanted to know where he was trying to take it. It didn't really go anywhere though, or spark discussion in any way.

Guillo, this is why I questioned you D2 about your play. I don't necessarily think you're scum, in fact, if we have a 3p faction like I think we do in this game (it's just a hunch, things feel extra unhinged for some reason, I could absolutely be way off), I'd probably put you in that category based on your posts. You're solving (in your own way lol), you *mostly* seem to have town's interests in mind in the sense that you seem to be scum-hunting, but there's still something not sitting right with me.

Did you really just claim my kill to throw it in Mac's face, or did you have other reasons? Why fake it? Were you hoping I'd counterclaim right away?

I don't see a whole lotta reason or stuff in your ISO that suggests you would do that kill on day 1. Hmmmmm. I'll think about it.

If you are truthful I don't think this makes Gulio any less townier. I don't have tons of experience with Gulio but if anyone fake-claims the kill like he did then it would be him. He's just crazy like that.

Regardless at the moment I think Grogu is someone more important to resolve at the moment. If I live to day 4 then I will discuss your slot.

I'm also hoping no one else claims a specific role. The mafia still have a 1-shot soup-kill and after losing 7 towns so far in this game I wouldn't be surprised if they used it even for a measly 3 extra kills in sacrifice of a late-game mass-claim scenario.

BoKnows wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:51 pm I still don't know what's happening

@BoKnows

Basically:

d1 went to hell as we had an ability activated by Naviya (who did with consent iirc) to chop the two highest wagons. This was activated very early on before major wagons I believe.

We also had an event mid-D1 that:

1) Hid 6 players away into a discord chat for 6 hours, including myself. Everyone in it signed up, but didn't know what was going to happen.
2) All 6 had to complete a maze (privately) and agree who to cop-check as that was the reward for the event. Votes were private too but final votes were revealed at the end of event.
3) Someone didn't vote the right person. No cop check. Some chaos ensued but I don't think there's anything else to mention there other than either due to mafia or just sleepiness Lost Monkey didn't correctly vote.

Oh and Justinrs2 tried to copy-paste the discord chat after it was nuked. He was mod-killed and was town.

Everyone else who died that day was town. Including the chops (Sig / Luck-box Inc), and as far as we can tell KZA was shot mid-day-1 by Macdougall....

Who we found out from n1 that Gulio shot Mac (a scum flip). Based on role Mac probably shot KZA.

d2 NotAnAxehole jumps right out of the gate with claimed red-check on Dana. Not much happens that day as they're hammered within 10 hours or so.

Dana flips town, and it turns out instead of mechanical interference (ex: redirection or framing) Axe says it was a fake check.

This is probably the bare-minimum that you need to know in order to understand somewhat. Feel free to ask for more details on anything and I'll give what I know.

@TonyStarkPrime any reasons you think Grogu is a wolf other than your quote+vote? I think he is, but I was wondering given you're one of the last people to wolf with him recently if you had any other thoughts.

blue color = from fallout 2

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:52 pm It made perfect sense to me. Sorry if you don’t see it that way

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:04 pm If you don’t like this then, sorry?

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:51 pm Because he claimed it was a cop check. I didn’t want to out our cop... I felt stupid and felt he was honest.
Then more things came to light and I went back on him.
Notice I back off him. Then went back and yes I had a scum read on him but I could be wrong. I had no true evidence

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:55 pm And what are you getting at? Those were two reads.... that’s all they were.

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:55 pm So you proved how my read evolved? Lol. I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean… I liked him a bit. Then I didn’t like so much, then I liked less and then he lied to clear himself.

1. The responses aren't completely the same because Fallout 2 was incredibly mech-heavy and claim-heavy.

2. Not everything matches up cleanly. A few slight things are different; he had a coherent understanding of his interactions with Fallout-Falcon back on day 2 of that game where Falcon got mod-killed.

3. Although it's interesting to note the timestamps are quite similar; The ones that are quoted from here happen in a few minutes just like the quotes from Fallout 2.

Might as well go comparing to how he reacted to me in Fallout 2 when he was going to flip as scum via planned vig kill. If I'm not mistaken I feel similar vibes here.

Grogu looks like panicked wolf to tbh

I don't think I'm moving my vote today.

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:43 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:38 pm [VOTE: Grogu] aubergine

I'm not interested in trying to lynch thread-health again in the next few hours.

We all know what happened. It was a fake red apparently. All there is to do is to decide upon it and not fuss about it further. Someone may even night-kill him for all we know.
Why kill axe? Let him.
And why vote me? For defending him? What is he’s town? Does that change your wromg decision?

"I care about whatever's going on right now so why are you voting me"

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:04 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:56 pm ftr I consider "derp-clears" or trying to "derp" as meaning to act like you didn't know something

You (Grogu) could be derping, but that last thing about Falcon (despite him being one of your suspects) is bad even if true.
What thing? Me not knowing who was in an event I wasn’t around for? I have joined or even tried to join zero events or chats. I don’t care enough or have time. I am here to have fun and escape my normal life and procrastinate some. I’m not here to do WORK… I ask questions of things I do not know, if I was a wolf I’ll probably know these things and act like I don’t know because the only way I would know is if I was a wolf cuz someone else did the work for me and feed me.
I am town so I rely on my fellow town to carry me. There’s -Lenny of good towny who know how to play and can tell me what’s going on. If you don’t like this then, sorry?

"I actually don't care and am just here to have fun and not take things seriously, and I apologize if you don't like this"

If lying were actually towny most of the time then we would all be doing it

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:55 pm So you proved how my read evolved? Lol. I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean… I liked him a bit. Then I didn’t like so much, then I liked less and then he lied to clear himself.
You forgot the part where I tried to clear him because he lied about being clear by the dead wolf.

Good try

It doesn't look real to me. There are things missing, and nothing there makes me a wolf grogu couldn't be doing this just to look town and right now I feel like this even support wolf grogu more than it does town grogu.

That's the problem.

Also you never clearly said that Falcon was towny for lying. You gave it a "omg lol" and left it at that. Even so, that's shaky grounds for a read.

ftr I consider "derp-clears" or trying to "derp" as meaning to act like you didn't know something

You (Grogu) could be derping, but that last thing about Falcon (despite him being one of your suspects) is bad even if true.

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:46 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:39 pm Grogu part of me feels like you're diving for derp-clears here which you've done in the past as scum
I sure have. You know why? Because I truly derp. I have no idea what’s going on as town or wolf… that’s why is so easy for me. Now check my town games and see how I’m even more derpy as town.
What’s derpy about me today? Be specific

It bothers me that you didn't know much about falcon yet suspect him suddenly for not much reason.

Last mention of Falcon, on D1:

Grogu wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:55 pm
Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:38 pm Read Falcon's iso and think he's a bad vote. Everything seems normal, matches my small meta, and it's all people I think are villagers voting him.
You are correct inc.
He seems good, sig on the other hand has to be scum and many people are trying to ignore that fact.

Next mention of Falcon, on D3:

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:27 pm
Vulgard wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:42 am Eh. Lost monkey's ISO is mostly empty reads. Really dislike their treatment of Falcon, calling him "scummy but can play bad as town" and "scum or butthurt." It feels like they have TMI on the slot because these are really weird, polarized statements to make as town. Also, how can you know someone's potentially "playing bad" as town when it's day 1? That's the biggest TMI point in the entire ISO.

The good thing is that lost monkey has actual alignment reads (even if they are bad); I remember their wolf ISO from our last game together barely having even that. But the reads themselves aren't good at all, and the treatment of Falcon should realistically spew him town if Lost Monkey is mafia.

I still think Falcon is the wolfier of the two, but maybe flipping lost monkey first is the play, considering Falcon's spewed town if Lost Monkey is mafia and Lost Monkey isn't spewed town if Falcon is mafia. Would like people's input on this.

In general, what even happened in that event? This makes two ISOs I've read that talk about the event and I'm still confused what exactly happened in there. Seanzie was in that as well iirc.
Agree. I like monkey and falcon likely wolf.

The fact that you're simply agreeing here makes it look worse to me imo.

And you're even trying to derp on him:

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:32 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:50 am Mac wasn't in the storm chat.
Falcon lied? Omg lol

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:43 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:38 pm [VOTE: Grogu] aubergine

I'm not interested in trying to lynch thread-health again in the next few hours.

We all know what happened. It was a fake red apparently. All there is to do is to decide upon it and not fuss about it further. Someone may even night-kill him for all we know.
Why kill axe? Let him.
And why vote me? For defending him? What is he’s town? Does that change your wromg decision?

No, it doesn't change my decision. Why are you attaching your alignment to the alignment of others here?

Grogu part of me feels like you're diving for derp-clears here which you've done in the past as scum

[VOTE: Grogu] aubergine

I'm not interested in trying to lynch thread-health again in the next few hours.

We all know what happened. It was a fake red apparently. All there is to do is to decide upon it and not fuss about it further. Someone may even night-kill him for all we know.

I'm also half-sure that someone town other than me will resolves Axehole in some way over-night.

The only thing that's keeping me from voting Axe here is bc I read Dana's response to Axe as scummy. Which is a plausible valid reason for pushing the fake red. But I don't get why Axe is blaming us for it like an axehole about it.

We didn't know that Dana on D2 was like that partially due to having direct incentive to die as town. Those kinds of roles are generally rare from what I've seen. Dana was encouraging us to arrive at the conclusion that she should die, regardless if Axe was wrong.

I don't recall Aang's alignment being guaranteed town so idrc about that role unless they are someone who I'm suspicious of.

Grogu wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:29 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:09 pm
DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:51 pm Grogu is saying some good stuff

gets my seal of approval
I'm mildly concerned he could have pocketed you or others but okay.

I haven't discovered a good way to read Grogu and last time I tried that it back in Fallout 2 didn't work well for me (as it had back-fired), so I'm going to maintain my suspicion for awhile.
How did it backfire? Was I scum?

You were. Heck moments ago you acted annoyed and self-referenced yourself as a baby you've done that similarly in that game (where you were scum) too:

(spoilering to make clear it isn't this game)

Spoiler: show

So your response to one of my reasons basically did nothing and was NAI to me as it was nearly the same (aside from some context) as you did once in a past scum game.

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:51 pm Grogu is saying some good stuff

gets my seal of approval

I'm mildly concerned he could have pocketed you or others but okay.

I haven't discovered a good way to read Grogu and last time I tried that it back in Fallout 2 didn't work well for me (as it had back-fired), so I'm going to maintain my suspicion for awhile.

Grogu wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:28 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:00 pm
Town:
IBA
Naviya
NotanAxeHole
TonyStarkPrime
Guillotine

Lean Town:
Hollowkatt
DaughterofOmega
Seanzie
Falcon

Null:
lost monkey
Felicis
Long con
Creature

Scum:
Vulgard/Butter
Grogu
JackofHearts2005
Dana
I swear the 4-reads-per-tier isn't intentional.

this is where I'm at roughly, probably wrong on at least one of my scum-reads but I doubt 2 or more.
You think I am scum? Weird

Exhibit A:

Grogu wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:08 am
Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:06 am
Grogu wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:04 am
IBA wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:55 am Let's kill Luckbox ynot
I’m down
weren't you clearing me earlier or was it just me clearing you?
I am not sure, I don’t believe I did. And if I did I just do not like your recent post and reaction. I prefer sig die first, wouldn’t mind if you did too inc.

And more reasons.

IBA wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:12 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:07 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:02 pm I've come to realize that if the wolves don't NK me tonight then nobody is chopping me tomorrow unless they want to spite
Actually correction this goes for D4 not D3.
I don't understand why someone would be this blatant tbh but it's not my job to understand everyone else's mindset

Well I would think if someone says what I pull in the future is being desperate then all I need to do is point to all my softs that I have already and just made.

And if I am NK'ed then maybe you all could stop worrying about me.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:07 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:02 pm I've come to realize that if the wolves don't NK me tonight then nobody is chopping me tomorrow unless they want to spite
Actually correction this goes for D4 not D3.

Welll maybe it could go for D3?

But they wouldn't need to NK me tonight.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:30 am First, roles were written. Then roles are assigned to players. Then alignment is randed. Then mafia are given the choice to swap their roles amongst themselves. Thus, roles are not tied to alignment and any role or character could be either alignment.

p sure this means 3P's aren't a thing unless every role in the game is 3P-friendly

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:02 pm I've come to realize that if the wolves don't NK me tonight then nobody is chopping me tomorrow unless they want to spite

Actually correction this goes for D4 not D3.

I've come to realize that if the wolves don't NK me tonight then nobody is chopping me tomorrow unless they want to spite

Town:
IBA
Naviya
NotanAxeHole
TonyStarkPrime
Guillotine

Lean Town:
Hollowkatt
DaughterofOmega
Seanzie
Falcon

Null:
lost monkey
Felicis
Long con
Creature

Scum:
Vulgard/Butter
Grogu
JackofHearts2005
Dana

I swear the 4-reads-per-tier isn't intentional.

this is where I'm at roughly, probably wrong on at least one of my scum-reads but I doubt 2 or more.

I'm gonna go chill in reading some iso's.

later.

IBA wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:49 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:38 pm also I'm going to clog this freaking thread if I have to
Sounds like a real good incentive to murder you tbh

yeah well at least I'll have my dignity that I gave this game my effort

I want you to have an INKLING of an independent read on me.

Not influenced by others. I don't care if its a scum-read or not. But if you do that it'll feel to me that you're making a decent effort to do so.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:45 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:42 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:40 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:38 pm I'm not going to die in my first town game after 3 wolf rands just because someone decided to play dumb on me
You literally have a 0% chance of dying today. Shush.
yeah right

just be quiet

and ignore the death-threat for D3

while also not attempting to solve them at all

if I stayed silent this whole day then I would be lowering myself to your level of play and I'm not gonna do that
You're right. Mac probably spewed you town, the interaction was more S/T than S/S.

All better?

No. It isn't.

You're still solving me from a spew perspective here.

It's like you gave up on reading me d1 after saying you gave me a slight town lean and the later momentarily sheeped people's thought that my reaction to the event was towny but after that nothing more and when Mac flips "OH YEAH I GUESS MARTIN IS PREETY SCUMMY"......for no clear reason other than the flip.

like the idea that we should stop solving completely and no one solves on any day at all

is such bullshit

no matter the situation

errr Dana

Wooofs:

"Oh hey you know that guy that red-checked Mac on D2? Yeah, real shame he died on N2 after shading Martin. Guess he was right even though HE NEVER TRIED TO INTERACT AND RE-EVALUATE"

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:40 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:38 pm I'm not going to die in my first town game after 3 wolf rands just because someone decided to play dumb on me
You literally have a 0% chance of dying today. Shush.

yeah right

just be quiet

and ignore the death-threat for D3

while also not attempting to solve them at all

if I stayed silent this whole day then I would be lowering myself to your level of play and I'm not gonna do that

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