The Syndicate

Made wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:32 pm cuz i'm being dismissed for my martin slip theory. Figured y'all were calling me dumb too

Martin slip?

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:30 pm why did both martin and made assume the derp clear post was about them lolol

it seemed awfully quick as a response to Hyena so I didn't think it was to them, and therefore it was to me perhaps since our discussion over multiball was over

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:28 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:25 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:23 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:28 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:27 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:23 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:06 pm



okay ur mafia im actually serious. super confident ur mafia. ur mafia. i think u popped in and tried to look towny. ur mafia

[VOTE: Kylemii] aubergine

while I haven't been in the game much

to me it looks like this could fail for two reasons

1) They could be very silly or its just a personalized way of reacting to stuff
2) "Look towny" is a very broad thing because there are so many ways one can be town but not look it and vice versa

so how come they are your biggest scum out of the 27 players so far

is there like more evidence than just 1 single thing is what I would like to know more tbh

Martin, what was this?

It was a post directed at Tutuu (as we can plainly and clearly read), and I'm not sure why you're asking me this.

Why are you shading Tutuu?

That isn't shade. Its a question.

I never said anything about her alignment in said post, or what do I think of her alignment.

It feels like you're suggesting that Kyle shouldn't be her biggest scumread out of the 27 players.

Indeed I was.

Is that shade, or merely disagreement?

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:28 pm Was that a derp clear attempt

I think the better question is even if it wasn't would you still scumread me lol

In fact that question was meant to help me determine if she was within scum-range or not.

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:23 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:28 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:27 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:23 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:06 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:05 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:24 pm Hyena might be town here actually. There is some information rocking around in my brain that says that this is his town meta.

in 2 words or less can you please describe the difference between Hyena's town meta and wolf meta?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:05 pm for me? please? love you

okay ur mafia im actually serious. super confident ur mafia. ur mafia. i think u popped in and tried to look towny. ur mafia

[VOTE: Kylemii] aubergine

while I haven't been in the game much

to me it looks like this could fail for two reasons

1) They could be very silly or its just a personalized way of reacting to stuff
2) "Look towny" is a very broad thing because there are so many ways one can be town but not look it and vice versa

so how come they are your biggest scum out of the 27 players so far

is there like more evidence than just 1 single thing is what I would like to know more tbh

Martin, what was this?

It was a post directed at Tutuu (as we can plainly and clearly read), and I'm not sure why you're asking me this.

Why are you shading Tutuu?

That isn't shade. Its a question.

I never said anything about her alignment in said post, or what do I think of her alignment.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:20 pm this is a host read of epi, take it or leave it but im pretty confident

ok

wish I knew that sooner as town because that could've been helpful in dermining, oh I don't know, my n1 action

Well, technically we were the "corporation" but effectively a mafia given the color.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:18 pm they probably arent informed of 3ps and the wincon is like a vague eliminate all threats thing but i think based on both team size and faction name being just mafia they would figure they are the only mafia team

We don't know how large the team is yet.

Anyways, I'll take your word on having a team simply named "Mafia" means no multiball. Its just in my experience of 20 games so far there hasn't been a single tidbit anywhere about that

heck even the scum-game I posted a link to earlier today, the pandemic board game, could have been multiball IIRC but the role-pm never clarified that nor the host did so the mafia wasn't sure until around last D2 or mid D3.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:17 pm im like 99% sure it just being called "mafia" means there is only one

Oh. That's the site meta?

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:16 pm uh the same reason we figured it wasnt multiball when cat's faction flipped as simply "Mafia"

flipping just as "mafia" doesn't prove anything lol

there can be "Mafia" and "Triad" for example

Made wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:15 pm you should? the reason that we figured 1 mafia team is cuz the flip said "you are mafia". Mafia would of made the same assumption we made in figuring out how many teams there were

Are partially informed, but not completely informed, mafia teams not a thing here?

I mean like this setup is closed they shouldn't know if there's multiball or not unless they had a huge mafia size and I don't see any evidence pointing to the absolute confirmation of that yet

Seriously. Like a mafia wincon of just "gain vote majority" and being told you're "Mafia" does not say anything about the existence or non-existence of other factions

you said yourself it can depend on the size of the mafia as well

what if there was a 2nd kill on n1 that was saved anyways and no one outed cuz soup kill and also night-kills?

Or maybe there was a lucky role-block. Who knows.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:12 pm bc your pm would be identified as just mafia in a way implying theres only one

I don't see how that works?

I mean, we quite litterally had 6 or 7 votes on her, possibly yours included idk, and yet somehow that's shrunk to 3 just hours earlier

I'm not sure if they would have the same confidence as you

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:10 pm i think they are both town regardless of your alignment so flipping you wouldnt add confidence

Sure. But do the others think that?

Because I made that hard-defense read on D1.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:09 pm Which honestly is a sad and lazy way of solving tutuu and thunal that won't work and I do hope people have trusted my reasons, even if they believe its because of TMI that I made them

actually we didn't even know it wasn't multiball (possibly) until after N1

as mafia depending on the size and # of 3P's I couldn't have exactly TMI'ed that thunal was town in some cases btw

Which honestly is a sad and lazy way of solving tutuu and thunal that won't work and I do hope people have trusted my reasons, even if they believe its because of TMI that I made them

otherwise you don't actually believe I had TMI and just think it looks like TMI

and you're just greedy that killing me as scum (AND ONLY AS SCUM) would clear those two slots

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:06 pm So your flip clears thunal and tutuu?

I was skimming past 50 posts or something

some people were saying I TMI'ed Thunal and Tutuu

the thing is

in order to believe a person TMI'ed someone as town even after prevailing to ensure they are not deleted

you ought to believe my reasons that got them off the deletion train in the first place

but anyways I'm going to compile how I feel about ppl

Its SUCH A BIG CHANGE from people constantly doubting me on my slot alone for stupid reasons such as "oh they had bad interaction with X scum" (which is the primary reason I got mis-deleted in grasslands and Bike mafia games)

but seriously guys I'm glad you guys think I've been so good it can only be explained as TMI xD

(and that I'm town but tbh if it clears tutuu and thunal by me flipping town that would be awesome like 2 cop checks by D2)

the only problem I have with this is that I can't tell if I'm supposed to be a disposable PR or non-disposable

and I am actually quite happy about that success

honestly I would be scared trying to be right on people after being super-right on Tutuu and Thunal, because apparently people think that's tmi

which inadvertently says they believed my reasons

so I come back to the thread 3 hours later to find I got 7 votes

lovely

at least it isn't tutuu or thunal

Also tutuu didn't you say were going to go away for about 12 hours?

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:54 pm ah this hurts my head

there is at least 1 wolf between syn and martin thats all i can confidently say

ill be gone from the thread for about 12 hours

If this includes sleep you should really get some! Not good to go to sleep under stress or under a small amount of time.

If you need me to link ISO's for those old games on my homesite lmk and I'll get them to you as soon as possible.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:32 pm martin can u link ur last scum game pls? if its offsite thats fine too

Last 3 in order:

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Game-Mafia /// Notes: You may want to look at D2 in that game, I defended wagon(s) at points where I could have simply left him. I also was playing with a player (bakermir) from my homesite who knows me a bit. I also took advantage of people not knowing me much.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthre ... d-s-Horror /// Notes: This was a bit of a joke game for me. I never really took it seriously, and the game ended because I conceded in it as the last demon...after busiing my teammate 2 days earlier on d1.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthre ... dder-Game) /// Notes: I took this game quite seriously, but its been so long (and it was basically after 2 months of playing FM) that it may be quite different from my actual scum-game.

I'm actually really concerned for my next scum game, especially if its here, because the bars will be higher ;-;

(Or they're a 3P but as I said fuck that idea for now)

Seriously if I am a wolf in a tutuu game one of my objectives will either to manipulate her closely or kill her as soon as possible

like mac their thread presence is significant and can be game-changing

only way they don't get deleted is if the wolves trust a deep wolf(ves) will win the F3/F5.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:22 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:18 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:09 pm I think debating whether tutuu made an insult or not is a waste of time

I apologize if it seems a waste of time to you, but to me it felt absolutely worth my time because Tutuu is town and she's on 6 votes.

So whether it is or isn't a "waste of time" isn't entirely up to you bud

From my understanding, nobody is voting tutuu because of subjective 'insults', so I feel it isn't really productive?

No snowflake ever feels responsible for an avalanche or blizzard.

I will scrutinize every argument, and I believe I have combatted and responded to every response as to "why tutuu is on 4 votes" when I came into the thread.

That also means she got two more votes while I was here, despite my re-emphasis she's just town and my arguments for why.

At the very least, if she is town (AND I 100% BELIEVE SHE IS), then I have no doubts there are some hungry wolves (at least one) on that train to delete her. So if that happens despite my efforts, we'll have a better idea who to look at.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:19 pm For comparison I think it took more than 36 hours on D0/D1 to get more than 5 votes on any single player if I recall, maybe more.

Ebwop

For comparison I think it took more than 36 hours on D0/D1 to get more than 5 votes if I recall, maybe more.

This shit needs serious consideration.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:09 pm I think debating whether tutuu made an insult or not is a waste of time

I apologize if it seems a waste of time to you, but to me it felt absolutely worth my time because Tutuu is town and she's on 6 votes.

So whether it is or isn't a "waste of time" isn't entirely up to you bud

(Or they think Tutuu is that horrible and somehow slipped being mafia with cat

which is lol and a terrible disrespect read)

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:01 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:58 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:55 pm @tutuu

I've only played with you one game, and I was scum in Radiohead. What would you say is the key difference between how you play as scum compared with town. I know you said you mimic your town play, but I'm wondering if there's an obvious difference between the two plays.

i dont think theres a key difference, and there shouldnt be at least from my pov

but ive also noticed that when im scum i tend to get a lot more townread than when im town. and i get tunneled and pushed a lot more as town. altho the sample size is really unequal (only 2 scum games compared to a ton of town games)

What I'm trying to say is, what should a townie look out for to read a town!tutuu correctly. Like, you can sort of see where the frustration and paranoia is coming from if you mimic your town play exactly as scum.

Not that you're asking me, but I do believe a bit strongly into what I said earlier:

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:20 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:28 am tl;dr

Tutuu's progression on cat is fishy. Her reasoning for her read was weak and when asked for evidence she couldn't really provide any. She drops the cat defense by townreading Falcon and then starts day 2 voting Falcon after Falcon's c/w flips mafia. She, much like our flipped mafia friend, spends time towards the EOD defending Thunal. The mafia then kill Thunal's biggest adversary in the thread.

I'm not convinced. I personally think tutuu would have harder stances on Cat (either way) presuming she were mafia/of-the-same alignment to make the most out of it.

If I recall she specifically likes power-wolfing (and in one particular game really wanted to protect her teammates) but as town she tends to really make a lot of reads (including wrong ones such as the one on !wolf LC in grasslands). It's only inevitable that at some point that will be on a mafia and I would look to some other standard for possible partner-y interactions such as using multiple flipped mafia as evidence or arguments how her playstyle so far benefits or attempts to benefit the mafia team.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:21 pm Well, I mean, I feel like !wolf Tutuu really has a "teamwork" or "for the team" effort spirit to it. I doubt she would waste an opportunity she could have optimized if she knew the flip of a player that was possibly getting deleted.

Additionally, though I haven't mentioned this earlier, I do believe Tutuu gave much more concise or higher quantity/quality of reads in this game (the early game that is) that I felt was on a level completely distinct from her previous scum-games. I think in her scum-games she's a bit more cagey with the information (or lack thereof) she gives in reads, at least in the early game.

At minimun, if she is scum here, her scum game has improved and that was one of my original reasons for town-reading her as I believe she was close to being outside of her scum-range. Its just seems that some people's WIFOM-eters are distorting their perception of where that scum-range ends.

Sure, she may have dismissed some of his arguments, but she was dismissing them with arguments challenging him to prove the logic behind his claims.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:45 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:30 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:27 pm I mean, you just need to read her responses to Mac, and everyone else during Mac's casing. She immediately resorts to insulting him and pretending as though she's the victim of some maligning that she's helpless against. She demands a case, gets provided it, and then says she can't work under these conditions, and then uses that to dismiss the case, lol. C'mon.

Okay. Sure. That's a better reason and less vague than "panicking".

I still disagree though, and I hold onto my town-read of Tutuu. I think both Mac and Tutuu are town.

I fact-checked the first response post and I don't see any "insults":

Okay, I did a more thorough look and the only actual insult I found was her directly calling Mac biased here (and "tunneled" at a few points if you consider that an insult):

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:46 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:44 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:41 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:38 am

dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:56 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:55 am no im fairly sure dya is town actually

how? I'm still in both metas

oof

there is nothing to off about, you are clearly death tunneled

you asked me to give you stuff to refute but when I do I'm "death tunneled"

Cute.

Verbalise how you had such a strong townread on Thunal?

i refuted your stuff when they were making sense and you were approaching things with a clear head

you are clearly scumreading everything and anything, you are biased and have a knee jerk reaction to call everything i post scummy

i had a strong townread on thunal due to my experience with her, she was in her town meta and i had wrongly scumread her before in grassland so i knew how she can come off as scummy

Everything else was either attributing negative adjectives to things that are actions rather than people themselves or they were logic-based responses to Mac's beliefs, arguments, and claims.

(except maybe 3P but no way in hell am I considering that right now)

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:47 pm thanks, u are correct

the thing is that

just breaks my heart but i have to consider that u could be wolf white knighting me from the wolfsiding villagers

ive seen this situation play out

bunch of townies playing poorly jumping on another town and making no sense

and wolf comes in and is polite and MAKES SENSE and gets a free win

kekw

i still think ur town but

ill consider it hm

hey look I'm not that good normally

its just that people are making dumb votes on villagers they don't like for some god-forsaken reason

D1 it was thunal, D2 now its you

and I believe you are town and I'm just not going to give wolves that

if they want you dead they have to either night-kill me, you, or both of us

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:46 pm martingg99's approach to woalfing: literalism 'n' u

then don't make claims unsupported by evidence

I will scruitinize the fuck out of ANYONE who deletes town tutuu here

Apparently there's been much more talk of this between Mac and Tutuu so I'll get to that other stuff soon

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:30 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:27 pm I mean, you just need to read her responses to Mac, and everyone else during Mac's casing. She immediately resorts to insulting him and pretending as though she's the victim of some maligning that she's helpless against. She demands a case, gets provided it, and then says she can't work under these conditions, and then uses that to dismiss the case, lol. C'mon.

Okay. Sure. That's a better reason and less vague than "panicking".

I still disagree though, and I hold onto my town-read of Tutuu. I think both Mac and Tutuu are town.

I fact-checked the first response post and I don't see any "insults":

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:39 am i found a reason to townread him

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:39 am towns can be conflicted on their reads

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:39 am marmot didn't notice that i townread him

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:39 am "You will be first against the wall when Cat flips Mafia." - if you are going to make posts like this then be prepared for me to not take you seriously and respond to u in that way

if u dont want me to make posts like this towards you then make serious posts

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:39 am offers wordy reasoning is clearly incorrect and you are death tunneled. the mac stuff isnt nonsense, you are death tunneled and u dont even know what u want. when i sheep u u dont like it and call it scummy. when i oppose u u dont like it and call it scummy. u arent thinking logically

The above two responses are referring to his thoughts or arguments. She doesn't call him stupid, she calls the arguments illogical. Its like saying voting townies is bad, but not the player who voted a townie is a bad player. Except in this case, only one person is making the arguments and so it may feel like its an insult to call the arguments illogical when its not.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:39 am after thinking about it i changed my mind, stuff like that happens

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:27 pm I mean, you just need to read her responses to Mac, and everyone else during Mac's casing. She immediately resorts to insulting him and pretending as though she's the victim of some maligning that she's helpless against. She demands a case, gets provided it, and then says she can't work under these conditions, and then uses that to dismiss the case, lol. C'mon.

Okay. Sure. That's a better reason and less vague than "panicking".

I still disagree though, and I hold onto my town-read of Tutuu. I think both Mac and Tutuu are town.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:21 pmIs it a lie?

It is not a lie. I was voted by Sloonei.

God knows what reason. Maybe he hates me after I tried insisting Thunal was town to him on D1 and something about me rubs him even though I don't think he has said much about me if I recall. Or something with Hyena at eod, I do recall something about that.

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:17 pm high activity isn't the panic bruh

Lovely. So what is?

The one post out of the 500 she makes or something? Or is it a consistency across 100 posts?

Well, actually, forget "panicking" part.

Mac and LC here saw me panic to their godamm faces as town in my last game and I knew I had to do something to show to them that I was town; I managed to live to N3 before being night-killed

Actually its not so much that its "panicking" whether its actually happening or not that's scummy

its the fact that you're even using it (a percieved panic) as a reason in addition to "being caught" in the first place to scum-read

that's why it felt so bad to me